#instantbird log on 03 11 2014

All times are UTC.

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00:45:19 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 954270 from --- to FIXED.
00:45:21 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=954270 nor, --, 1.6, aleth, RESO FIXED, Give new tabs opened via IRC commands focus
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01:09:12 * clokep waits for his build to finish... :-\
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01:56:33 <mayanktg> qheaden: thanks for the patch :)
02:12:53 <mayanktg> aleth: yes I'm working on the technical details too. But I guess the designing part is as important as the code.
02:15:04 <mayanktg> flo-retina: The project says that we have to first implement WebRTC via XMPP.. Should I mention details about other protocols too?
02:15:56 <mayanktg> The submissions has already been started and my proposal isn't ready yet :-/
02:30:05 * clokep feels like he's talking to himself... :(
02:30:38 <clokep> mayanktg: I wouldn't be concerned that the submission period has started and you don't have a proposal ready, you have the entire submission period to finish it.
02:30:54 <clokep> Fallen|away: You should be all set once aleth_web reviews that. :)
02:31:47 <clokep> mayanktg: I think the requirement is XMPP + figuring out the "framework" for doing it, (i.e. how to send and receive calls, adding the actual video frame, etc.)
02:32:01 <mayanktg> clokep: I found this from your last year conversation! http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/130313/#m433
02:32:02 <clokep> But adding other protocols might be a nice way to make a flexible schedule.
02:32:09 <clokep> I.e. "If I have time I'd love to add support for XYZ."
02:32:29 <clokep> mayanktg: OK.
02:32:53 <mayanktg> Yes. strophie.jingle is the "framework" ?
02:33:29 <clokep> What?
02:33:33 <clokep> No?
02:34:03 <clokep> By "framework" above I'm talking about the Instantbird parts that would apply to any voice/video conversation.
02:34:06 <clokep> As my examples stated.
02:34:11 <mayanktg> I didn't understood it then :/
02:34:26 <clokep> You shouldn't need to import any extra code into Instantbird to handle WebRTC it's BUILT into Mozilla.
02:34:41 <clokep> You do need to handle the XMPP negotiation though so the two end points can start a WebRTC connection.
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02:34:53 <clokep> Which maybe other libraries have done already.
02:34:57 <clokep> That's my understanding, at least.
02:35:16 <mayanktg> we will have to touch the chat/protocols/xmpp ?
02:35:31 <clokep> Yes.
02:35:34 <clokep> That's the point.
02:35:37 <mayanktg> :D
02:35:55 <mayanktg> I got confused by the term framework :|
02:36:33 <clokep> Sorry.
02:37:03 <mayanktg> I have gone through XEP 0343 and it defines how we can transfer media data using the WebRTC DataChannel
02:44:57 <clokep> OK.
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04:18:46 <instant-buildbot> build #2077 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [3build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/2077
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04:47:05 <instant-buildbot> build #1293 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [3build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/1293
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08:31:03 <instantbot> New Chat Core - IRC bug 982011 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
08:31:06 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=982011 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Nickserv's "Password accepted" message shown
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08:45:15 <nhnt11> Interesting, Google wants a proof of enrollment before accepting a proposal submission this year
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08:49:29 <Mic> nhnt11: how? Do they want you to upload a foto/scan of a document?
08:52:57 * flo-retina wonders if we should teach instantbot that the word "framework" is as bad as "C++" :-D
08:53:05 <flo-retina> I got confused by that word too in clokep's sentence.
08:53:21 <flo-retina> nhnt11: do they check it before accepting your application?
08:53:34 <flo-retina> nhnt11: or would they just accept any random uploaded file?
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09:20:52 <Mic> flo-retina: teach firebot instead? ;)
09:21:06 <flo-retina> heh :)
09:21:15 <flo-retina> you mean so that it also behaves that way in #media? ;)
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09:24:04 <nhnt11> Mic: A photo of my ID card will do I guess. That's what I gave them last year, but after my proposal was accepted
09:24:15 <nhnt11> flo-retina: Any file will do I think. If it doesn't work they'll tell you later
09:24:18 <nhnt11> (according to the faq)
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09:55:40 <nhnt11> \o/
09:55:46 <nhnt11> Rounded buddy icon borders everywhere :D
09:55:51 * nhnt11 is happy :]
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10:08:02 <Mic> nhnt11++
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10:14:24 <Fallen> clokep: thanks for the quick patch!
10:20:59 <clokep> Fallen: No problem. Thanks for the account. :) You OK keeping it around for a bit until it goes through review?
10:21:09 <clokep> Mic: I don't have time to look at bug 982011 right  now, getting on a plane soon.
10:21:12 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=982011 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Nickserv's "Password accepted" message shown
10:22:44 <Fallen> clokep: sure, np
10:25:21 <Mic> clokep: I've seen that for a while already. A few more days won't make a difference ;)
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10:28:06 <clokep> :)
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10:31:24 <Fallen> does anyone still use icq? I can't seem to require encryption with the default settings
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10:32:15 <Mic> Fallen: I do.
10:32:35 <Fallen> do you use encyrption? What settings do you use?
10:33:32 <Mic> It's set to "Don't use encryption" for me.
10:33:47 <Mic> I don't know if that's the default setting or not.
10:34:57 <Mic> Setting it to "Require encryption" gives an error about the handshake failing.
10:35:33 <Fallen> yeah, getting that too. I'd rather use encryption :-P
10:35:51 <flo-retina> that's likely a broken certificate on the icq servers
10:35:52 <Mic> (or ~ "You required encryption but the server doesn't support it" if I check the clientLogin checkbox (of which nobody seems to know what it does;)
10:36:10 <Fallen> debug log says: startOSCARSession was missing tlsCertName
10:36:21 <flo-retina> "nobody seems to know what it does" I have a theory about what it does.
10:36:42 <Mic> Oh :)
10:36:51 <Fallen> I believe clientLogin was a new authentication mechanism ICQ introduced some time in the 00's
10:37:13 <flo-retina> it also exists on AIM, so I would have blamed AOL :)
10:37:47 <Fallen> yeah, makes sense. I believe I've been using ICQ so long that I had a version without clientLogin, and that was before AOL bought them
10:44:06 <Mic> flo-retina: you're right about the "pref to put on hold"-bug. It reminds me a bit of "auto-join"-bugs where I always think that they are just a workaround for session restore ;)
10:44:34 <flo-retina> Mic: do you mean wontfix?
10:47:13 <Fallen> Also, I'd like to make a few local style changes, but fiddling around with the dom inspector didn't work for me. First of all I'd like to reduce the min-width of the tab so the vast amount of channels I've joined will fit on screen. I've tried removing paddings, margins, and setting min-width: 0, but nothing really changed. Has anyone done this? 
10:47:25 <Mic> No, not necessarily. If someone had a patch I wouldn't reject it but I wouldn't spend time on it myself because I'd know that there's a better solution.
10:47:56 <flo-retina> Mic: are you still willing to mentor it then?
10:48:03 <flo-retina> Fallen: I think there's an about:config pref for that
10:48:16 <flo-retina> browser.tabs.tabMinWidth
10:48:35 <flo-retina> Fallen: out of curiosity, why do you need to have all channels in tabs?
10:48:36 <Mic> flo-retina: yes, if it helps a new contributor to get started.
10:49:20 <flo-retina> Fallen: have you seen the "conversation on hold" feature?
10:49:55 <Fallen> I guess thats just what I was used to from before. I would like to flip through tabs instead of having to open the window every time
10:50:28 <flo-retina> do you really actively interact with a dozen channels?
10:50:51 <Fallen> no, but I like to waste time reading them :)
10:50:55 <flo-retina> I tend to have at most 6 open where I'm active, and I put all the others on hold, so that I can see it if someone pings me there.
10:51:14 <Fallen> There are surely a few I can put on hold, I saw that feature and thought it was quite nice
10:51:32 <flo-retina> but anyway, if you still want smaller tab, I gave you the name of the pref
10:51:40 <Fallen> yep, testing now
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10:53:48 <Mic> clokep had a "Vertical Tabs" add-on once. I don't know if it's still functional but putting the tabs to the side of the window allowed to have a lot more visible than otherwise.
10:55:02 <Fallen> setting the minwidth seems enough for me. They are still equal size, so #b2g takes as much space as #instantbird, but I can live with that in combination with the conversations on hold feature
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11:38:22 <shrihari> I remember reading somewhere that we have to mention our mentor in the application. Is that so?
11:39:09 <aleth> That's probably the least important bit ;)
11:39:19 <aleth> But projects do need to have a mentor, yes.
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11:40:48 <shrihari> So, if I'm submitting an application for Single Window UI for IB, whom can I mention as my mentor? :)
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11:41:32 <flo-retina> shrihari: that's not very important for Instantbird projects
11:42:06 <flo-retina> shrihari: mentioning the mentor is important for projects where the GSoC administrators (ie. me) may have no idea of who to reach out to to review the application.
11:42:23 <shrihari> flo-retina: Oh, okay..
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11:45:29 <flo-retina> Fallen: I've just accepted your connection as a mentor. Do you receive an email from google-melange when I do that, or should I also add a comment in the box when doing that?
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11:52:06 <Fallen> flo-retina: I got a welcome email :)
11:52:11 <flo-retina> Fallen: cool
11:52:51 <Fallen> thanks
11:54:16 <aleth> wow, so much bugmail...
11:57:07 <flo-retina> Fallen: thanks for the email forward. Looks a lot like the email I got when Mozilla got accepted :)
11:57:18 <flo-retina> aleth: yeah, people have been cleaning up our bugs overnight!
12:01:16 <aleth> Is BMO down? :-/
12:05:12 <Fallen> wfm
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12:12:16 <flo-retina> aleth: it was yesterday evening ;)
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13:02:22 <qheaden> Hello everyone.
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13:53:37 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org changed the Resolution on bug 954969 from --- to WORKSFORME.
13:53:39 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=954969 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO WORKSFORME, "...Conversation undefined" errors on opening/switching tabs
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14:00:33 <instantbot> florian@queze.net changed the Resolution on bug 955287 from --- to INCOMPLETE.
14:00:34 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=955287 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO INCOMPLETE, UI freezes on sending tweet until the sent tweet appears in the timeline
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15:10:42 <clokep_work> Mic: Vertical Tabs still works.
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15:16:27 <clokep_work> aleth: Thanks for responding to bug 955682. :)
15:16:29 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=955682 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Channel cases are not properly corrected
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15:23:29 <dev_peace> Hello clokep_work and flo-retina
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15:25:49 <clokep_work> Hello dev_peace.
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15:37:51 <dev_peace> In instantbird and other chat clients why do we use protocols for text/audio/video chatting? 
15:42:52 <aleth> I don't understand the question
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15:46:29 <dev_peace> aleth : XMPP is used in instantbird right ?
15:47:06 <aleth> YEs
15:47:16 <aleth> It's one of the protocols.
15:47:36 <aleth> If you're confused about terminology, maybe you should ask directly?
15:50:07 <dev_peace> aleth : my question is why do we use this protocol, I have seen chat clients( developed by students ) which dont use XMPP 
15:51:05 <aleth> dev_peace: Instantbird is multiprotocol, so the whole point is that it should allow the user to connect to as many different networks as possible, and then not worry about which network is actually being used in a given conversation.
15:52:00 <aleth> What's the point of inventing yet another protocol if the only people who you can talk to are those using the same client? That's not very open.
15:53:08 <dev_peace> aleth : So basically we use protocols for example A uses pidgin and B uses instantbird. So for both of them to talk we need a protocol
15:53:45 <aleth> Right, Pidgin is not a protocol, it's another multiprotocol client.
15:54:34 <dev_peace> aleth : Yes so for people using different chat clients to communicate we use XMPP
15:54:43 <dev_peace> and others
15:54:50 <aleth> Or whatever, right.
15:55:41 <aleth> As long as A and B have one protocol in common...
15:55:59 <aleth> We want stuff to work on as many protocols as possible.
15:56:42 <dev_peace> aleth : In early high school I remember building a chat client using JAVA I/O
15:57:37 <aleth> Which protocol did that use?
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15:59:10 <dev_peace> aleth : I dont remember using any protocol then 
15:59:26 <aleth> You must have used some protocol (possibly one you invented yourself)
16:00:34 <aleth> i.e. a set of rules for what to send and how to parse what you receive
16:00:45 <dev_peace> aleth : http://stackoverflow.com/questions/20296628/sockets-and-serversockets-server-client-gui-chat-program
16:00:51 <dev_peace> An example
16:02:44 <aleth> Yeah, so it looks like you invented your own ;)
16:04:43 <dev_peace> aleth : yea maybe, so XMPP is a world wide standard protocol 
16:11:04 <clokep_work> Yes, read the Wikipedia article on it. ;)
16:11:44 <clokep_work> aleth: I wouldn't mark bug 976083 as checkin-needed...they're gonna have no idea where that goes.
16:11:47 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=976083 nor, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Update FAQ to include required libraries for newer 64b Ubuntus
16:12:05 <aleth> clokep_work: gah, true.
16:12:37 <aleth> Someone here better push it then ;)
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16:16:35 <clokep_work> aleth: Did you look over that patch I r-ed on myself btw?
16:16:55 <aleth> clokep_work: No
16:23:19 <clokep_work> OK. :) It's simpler than what I did anyway.
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16:58:17 <qheaden> Hey clokep_work.
16:58:50 <clokep_work> Hello qheaden.
16:59:19 <qheaden> clokep_work: Did you want to test out group chat on JS-Yahoo?
17:00:24 <clokep_work> qheaden: We,= can, yes.
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17:23:17 <dev_peace> After some googling I found out that I can strophe.js to add XMPP support to webRTC, is that a good idea?
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17:29:10 <Mook_as> ... Doesn't instantbird already have XMPP code?
17:30:41 <clokep_work> And Mozilla has WebRTC code, yes.
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17:33:24 <flo-retina> "I can strophe.js to add XMPP support to webRTC" makes absolutely no sense. You'll need to rephrase if you want an answer.
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17:50:26 <dev_peace> sorry flo-retina . I found out that one can make a web-based Jingle audio/vedio chat using Strophe.js and WebRTC. Strophe.js is an XMPP library for JavaScript  to enable web-based, real-time XMPP applications that run in any browser.
17:52:04 <aleth> But we already have JS XMPP code.
17:53:34 <dev_peace> aleth : yes but using the Jingle( protocol ) an extension to XMPP we can achieve audio/video chat 
17:53:50 <flo-retina> ...
17:54:45 <mayanktg> I guess what we need to do is use this specification (XEP-0166) http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0166.html . It explains how P2P connection is achieved and then used for voice/video chat.
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17:58:12 <dev_peace> flo-retina: in the comments section for the "WebRTC support for instantbird" project at https://wiki.mozilla.org/Community:SummerOfCode14, you have listed a few extensions for XMPP ( XEP's ), all those are connected to Jingle right ?
17:58:41 <dev_peace> flo-retina: I matched them at http://xmpp.org/xmpp-protocols/xmpp-extensions/
17:58:45 <flo-retina> someone else added that info to the wiki
17:59:20 <aleth> dev_peace: A quick google for "jingle" would bring up a list of related XEPs...
17:59:50 <dev_peace> flo-retina: oh yea, it's a wiki :P
18:00:05 <flo-retina> "XEP-0320: Use of DTLS-SRTP in Jingle Sessions" oh, nice :)
18:00:10 <mayanktg> flo-retina: yes..The XEP-0343 is for DataChannel which is needed for file transfer.
18:01:12 <flo-retina> I have no idea of what xep 338 is about
18:01:18 <mayanktg> I think it won't be needed as far as we are using calling feature only.:-/ 
18:01:48 <dev_peace> flo-retina: That good guy who added the comments has some valid points, can be MIC. Let us wait for him
18:02:16 <clokep_work> dev_peace, flo-retina: I added those.
18:02:44 <clokep_work> (Well I added them to the etherpad.)
18:03:12 * dev_peace plays the superman music for clokep_work
18:03:43 <clokep_work> So I know they're related but...we're really more interested in adding WebRTC support than Jingle support, correct?
18:03:56 <flo-retina> alrigh, I've read a little bit of the XEPs on the wiki page
18:05:36 <flo-retina> XEP-0320 is Jingle over DTLS-SRTP (this is what WebRTC uses), XEP-0343 is file transfer over WebRTC data channels, like mayanktg just said. The other 2, I have no clue what they are
18:10:07 <clokep_work> Those are from that presentation pretty much btw. :)
18:10:29 <flo-retina> yeah, I know where that's coming from ;)
18:10:39 <dev_peace> which presentation?
18:11:35 <flo-retina>  http://hancke.name/jabber/summit15-webrtc.pdf
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18:19:19 <dev_peace> flo-retina: Thanks
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18:30:03 <dev_peace> does mozilla have a XUL sandbox?
18:35:30 <clokep_work> I think some exist.
18:36:00 <Mook_as> xul sandbox?
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18:36:17 <clokep_work> qheaden: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=976177#c3 just needs a comment...
18:36:19 <instantbot> Bug 976177 nor, --, ---, qheaden, ASSI, JS-Yahoo doesn't implement icon removal
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19:24:17 <dev_peace> Mic: hello
19:24:39 <dev_peace> do have a look at the log 
19:31:53 <Mic> Hi
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19:50:22 <Mic> dev_peace: sorry, I need to have dinner first...
19:50:53 <dev_peace> Mic: no issues, take your time, ill be here for a good 4 hours
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19:53:03 * clokep_work wonders what the actual question is. ;)
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20:01:57 <dev_peace> clokep_work: were you referring to me?
20:02:36 <clokep_work> dev_peace: Yes
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20:08:00 <dev_peace> clokep_work: I am just getting the flow of my project ready.
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21:05:30 <dev_peace> Mic: I found out that one can make a web-based Jingle audio/vedio chat using Strophe.js and WebRTC, is that what we are looking for ?
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21:18:03 <flo-retina> no
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21:25:37 <dev_peace> flo-retina: okay, could you make the idea a little clear for me?
21:26:48 <flo-retina> which part isn't clear?
21:29:17 <dev_peace> flo-retina: The basic goal is to support voice/video chat using WebRTC via XMPP. Right ?
21:33:12 <flo-retina> not "via XMPP" specifically
21:33:27 <flo-retina> the goal is to let Instantbird users do audio/video communication.
21:33:39 <Mic> XMPP will be used as channel to negotiate the details for the WebRTC connection.
21:33:39 <flo-retina> so we should support it wherever it's realistically possible
21:33:46 <flo-retina> and XMPP is just the easiest way to start.
21:33:49 <Mic> It's the "signalling channel".
21:34:52 <Mic> I hope I got that right. I did a lot of reading on WebRTC and XMPP in the last hour ;)
21:35:28 <dev_peace> Jingle is also an extension of XMPP which is specifically designed to handle audio/video stuff
21:35:35 <flo-retina> Mic: yes, you got this right!
21:35:51 <flo-retina> dev_peace: I don't think you need to teach any of us about what XMPP or Jingle is.
21:35:52 <flo-retina> We know.
21:37:40 <dev_peace> flo-retina: sorry I didnt mean to offend you, but framed my sentence poorly
21:39:51 <instant-buildbot> build #0 of linux64-nightly-default is complete: Failure [4failed compile]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux64-nightly-default/builds/0
21:46:06 <Mic> dev_peace: do you know this PDF? http://hancke.name/jabber/webrtc-xmpp-summit-13ph.pdf
21:47:07 <Mic> There's also plenty of information on WebRTC on MDN.
21:47:43 <Mic> You can also read the Jingle XEP's to get and idea how different things work together there.
21:47:44 <dev_peace> Mic: no, seems like a good resource
21:51:08 <Mic> Do I have to create a new profile on Google Melange to become a mentor again?
21:51:31 <Mic> I can't find the one from last year...
21:52:35 <nhnt11> Mic: I had to create a new profile to be able to submit a proposal (maybe it's the same for mentors as well?)
21:55:36 <EionRobb> yeah, every year needs you to recreate everything
21:56:24 <dev_peace> Mic: Yea reading the articles on MDN, but since we wont be using the browser window, will things change for us?
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22:06:02 <Mic> Yes, there will be differences.
22:07:33 <dev_peace> but the basic methods will remain the same I guess?
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22:11:19 <Mic> Yes, afaik. Ask me tomorrow again ;)
22:13:11 <dev_peace> sure, could you give me some homework before you go ? :P
22:16:29 <flo-retina> aleth_web, Mic (and others) : how would you feel about us dropping support for all Linux distributions that are more than a couple years old?
22:16:38 <flo-retina> (eg. supporting only the latest ubuntu lts and newer)
22:17:58 <nhnt11> dev_peace: If you haven't built Ib from source yet, I would do that.
22:19:15 <Mic> flo-retina: "dropping support" meaning here that our official releases won't work on anything older anymore?
22:19:25 <flo-retina> Mic: yes
22:19:41 <flo-retina> Mic: meaning that we are pissed of by CentOS, and very tempted to give up with it.
22:20:18 <dev_peace> nhnt11: Ib?
22:20:21 <Mic> hmm, as long as people could compile IB themselves if they need it.
22:20:28 <nhnt11> dev_peace: Ib = Instantbird
22:20:32 <Mic> *I*nstant*b*ird
22:21:58 <nhnt11> dev_peace: Also if you're not using Instantbird yet, you probably should start using it and familiarize yourself with the UI, etc.
22:22:19 <nhnt11> (You seem to still be using Pidgin? ("Purple IRC" when I do /version)
22:22:22 <nhnt11> )
22:23:01 <dev_peace> nhnt11: I am on pidgin now, but I use Ib when I am on debian :)
22:23:17 <nhnt11> Is there a reason you don't use it on Windows? :-/
22:23:27 <Mic> IB is cross-platform, you can use it on Linux/Mac and Windows.
22:23:37 <nhnt11> Anyway, I only suggested compiling Ib since you were asking for homework... ;)
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22:23:57 <Mic> If you hurry you can even use it on older Linux'es still ;)
22:24:08 <nhnt11> Mic: :P
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22:24:47 <Mic> Yeah, why not trying to compile Ib if you've enough of reading documentation and specs for now.
22:24:59 <dev_peace> nhnt11: compiling Ib? ( confused ). There is no reason I dont use Ib on windows, it is just that pidgin starts automatically :P
22:25:00 <Mic> There's a page on the Wiki for that.
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22:25:20 <nhnt11> dev_peace: Instantbird is open source software, you can download the codebase and compile it yourself
22:26:16 <Mic> I suggest compiling on Linux. It's supposed to be a lot faster there (I never tried on Windows, though).
22:26:35 <flo-retina> yes. compiling on linux is easy. Ahem.
22:26:42 <nhnt11> ^lol
22:26:55 <nhnt11> Mic said /faster/ not /easier/ anyway :P
22:27:00 <dev_peace> nhnt11: yes, got that, will do that, https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Compiling
22:27:40 <dev_peace> Windows is just basically for FIFA's and movies, hehe
22:28:19 <Mic> Make sure you follow the links and documentation closely.
22:28:42 <dev_peace> Mic: I hope I pasted the correct link ?
22:29:02 <Mic> Yes.
22:32:21 <dev_peace> Thanks, will get back to you tomorrow
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22:42:47 <Mic> bbl
22:43:34 <nhnt11> Is BMO down?
22:43:56 <flo-retina> no
22:43:58 <Mic> wfm
22:44:10 <nhnt11> :(
22:44:23 <flo-retina> but there was an email a few hours ago saying it may be unusually slow because they were performing database maintenance
22:44:37 <nhnt11> okay
22:45:27 <nhnt11> Good night.
22:45:33 <Mic> nn
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