#instantbird log on 07 12 2010

All times are UTC.

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00:31:55 <clokep> Mic: Updated both my extensions.
00:34:41 <hicham> hi clokep
00:36:25 <clokep> Hello hicham.
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02:36:32 <clokep> skeledrew: Do you have my extension installed?
02:44:08 <clokep> Never mind. I think I figured it out...:)
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03:11:01 * clokep has tab indicators working!
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03:35:50 <clokep> Full vertical tabs drag and drop support: http://www.rpi.edu/~clokep/ib/Teaser_Vertical_DnD.png with tab indicators too. :)
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06:36:18 <flo> good morning :)
07:00:57 <flo> new Windows release candidate: http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/releases/0.2-candidates/2010-07-12-06-instantbird/
07:01:20 <flo> I would appreciate if I could get a confirmation from a Windows 7 user that the installer now works well :)
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07:05:49 <tymerkaev> yeah, it works as well
07:05:55 * testib is trying Instantbird 0.2 french on Mac OS X 10.5
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07:11:45 <tymerkaev> hmm, how to write with italic font?
07:12:23 <flo> is it a protocol that supports HTML?
07:15:28 <tymerkaev> I don't know about it, how to write it?
07:16:12 <flo> you know the protocol of your account, right? :)
07:16:35 <tymerkaev> yes
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07:38:42 <flo> 0.2 release notes (for proof reading): http://queze.net/goinfre/release-notes-0.2.html
07:43:15 <tymerkaev> "Join chats is now usable with more protocols (XMPP, ...). It used to work only with IRC." only with irc?
07:43:38 <flo> yes. Is there a typo somewhere?
07:45:03 <tymerkaev> not only irc, I'm using it also for talk on jabber.org (XMPP)
07:46:38 <tymerkaev> "This release has a new tab system inspired from the tabs of Firefox 3.5" maybe you can write 3.6?
07:48:41 <flo> I'm not sure. We really used the code from 3.5.
07:49:17 <flo> At the time 3.6 wasn't released yet, and they had removed the "all tabs" menu from the current code because they were trying something else to navigate between tabs
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07:52:52 <tymerkaev> "Instantbird 0.2 release candidates"
07:54:15 <flo> new set of release candidate builds for testing:
07:54:16 <flo> Windows: http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/releases/0.2-candidates/2010-07-12-06-instantbird/
07:54:16 <flo> Mac: http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/releases/0.2-candidates/2010-07-12-01-instantbird/
07:54:16 <flo> Linux: http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/releases/0.2-candidates/2010-07-12-00-instantbird/
07:55:05 <tymerkaev> flo: have you received messages from uk localizer?
07:55:14 <flo> yes...
07:55:52 <tymerkaev> probably he has some problems like I had long time ago...
07:56:14 <flo> do you want to help him figure out how to use TortoiseHG? That would be great! :)
07:56:45 <tymerkaev> hmm, I'm already help him.
07:56:51 <flo> cool
07:57:43 <tymerkaev> He sent you purple files, right?
07:57:48 <flo> yes
07:58:02 <flo> I don't want/need translations sent by email though.
08:00:37 <tymerkaev> I think you may have sixth language for 0.2, if you can give me access to uk locale, before he learn Mercurial.
08:00:51 <tymerkaev> He can translate it, I can push it.
08:01:03 <flo> has he started translating the files of the UI?
08:01:10 <tymerkaev> no
08:01:26 <flo> he can't rush it in one day and make a good job...
08:01:35 <tymerkaev> He don't know where's locale files for UI :(
08:01:41 <flo> I guess we will have Ukrainian for the next release :)
08:02:07 <tymerkaev> We'll see ;)
08:02:21 <flo> I could give you write access to his repository, but I don't think you want to help him for each and every commit
08:06:06 <tymerkaev> give me please
08:06:28 <tymerkaev> I'll help him with learn.
08:06:35 <tymerkaev> after
08:07:23 <flo> it would probably help him ask for help if he could come here too :)
08:08:00 <tymerkaev> You may ask right now
08:08:35 <tymerkaev> by email
08:10:33 <flo> I've just given  you write access in his repository
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08:17:29 <tymerkaev> what password?
08:17:34 <tymerkaev> as for ru?
08:17:37 <flo> yes
08:30:35 <tymerkaev> time for check
08:30:44 <tymerkaev> resend me his message
08:31:16 <flo> ?
08:32:54 <tymerkaev> with purple
08:33:05 <tymerkaev> I want to check
08:33:25 <flo> check what?
08:36:38 <tymerkaev> He write that he can't push because he's authentication error. 
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11:41:19 <flo> back to all green :)
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12:00:56 <clokep_work> I'm a fan of green trees. ;)
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12:08:16 <clokep_work> flo: I have some comments on the release notes?
12:09:07 <flo> is it a question?
12:09:37 <clokep_work> I guess the question part is how I can get them to you. :) Wiki page will do well I guess.
12:09:38 <Even> I think it's more a comment about a future comment :P
12:10:04 <Even> I think you can start there.
12:10:20 <Even> If we beleive it's worth a wiki note, then flo will tell you so.
12:10:22 <flo> it all depends how long your comments are :)
12:10:46 <Even> Ahah, but if it's long it might not be worth a wiki note too. In this case pastebin is great :D
12:11:55 <clokep_work> flo: Long enough I think. ;) One second.
12:12:01 * clokep_work likes the diff that wikis give.
12:14:23 <clokep_work> flo: I got drag&drop working on my vertical tabs. :)
12:14:36 <flo> I saw that! :)
12:14:38 <flo> congrats! :)
12:15:43 <clokep_work> Yeah no idea if it works on other OSes though, will try that soon. :)
12:16:13 <flo> I don't think there are any os specific things with regards to drag&drop so it's probably ok :)
12:17:00 <clokep_work> tabbrowser.css has some placement of the tab-drop-indicator-bar that may or may not be specific, didn't look at the other files yet.
12:17:14 <flo> ah, right
12:17:23 <flo> the image may not have the same size on all OSes
12:18:26 <clokep_work> Yeah, that's probably what it is.
12:20:20 <clokep_work> "It's now possible to customize the font, size and color of the text of your messages." is that referring to the font you send or how you see the font you send?
12:20:40 <clokep_work> Is it just customizing it in the conversation window or is it actually sending the HTML formatted message?
12:21:21 <flo> depends on that we do with the "Send as part of my messages" checkbox ;)
12:21:25 <flo> s/we/you/
12:22:35 <clokep_work> Ah, OK. :)
12:22:53 <clokep_work> https://wiki.instantbird.org/index.php?title=User%3AClokep%2FIb0.2notes&diff=1102&oldid=1101
12:22:53 <flo> and of the protocol too, of course
12:23:14 <flo> "the later releases" ?
12:23:25 <clokep_work> Remove "the" sorry.
12:23:40 <clokep_work> I'm not an English expert but I think "next releases" sounds weird.
12:23:52 <clokep_work> To me next implies singular (i.e. there is only one "next").
12:23:58 <flo> the "the" sounded weird too ;)
12:24:11 <clokep_work> So it needs to be "later" or "future" "release*s*" or "next release"
12:24:16 <clokep_work> I agree. :)
12:24:57 <flo> "clibpoard" ouch. I'm almost sure that was copied/pasted from previous release notes
12:25:35 <flo> "the libpurple preferences of libpurple" uh?
12:25:45 <flo> the other changes sound good :)
12:25:53 <clokep_work> Its early here!
12:28:32 <flo> and digestion time here ;)
12:35:33 <flo> http://img.brothersoft.com/screenshots/softimage/i/instantbird_for_mac-204109-1231300766.jpeg ahah, that seems soooo old :)
12:38:31 <clokep_work> How old is it?
12:38:45 <flo> maybe only 0.1.3
12:45:11 <clokep_work> People aren't gonna think its the same program. ;)
12:45:20 <flo> heh :)
12:45:52 <flo> I guess it's on mac that the cleanup was the most needed :)
12:48:38 <Mic> flo: do you have a rough estimate of the number of users?
12:49:19 <flo> no
12:49:39 <flo> it's a long time since the last time we attempted to make statistics with the server logs
12:49:42 <Mic> Number of update requests each day or such?
12:49:48 <clokep_work> :(
12:52:33 <Mic> flo: how would you do that usually?
12:53:26 <flo> some random command lines including grep, sed, sort, uniq, wc ;)
12:54:09 <Mic> I was thinking more about the general method
12:54:18 <Mic> Does every client have a sort of unique id?
12:55:02 <flo> http://queze.net/goinfre/update-pings-per-day.txt
12:55:02 <flo> http://queze.net/goinfre/update-pings-per-day-auto.txt (only automatic updates, this excludes people clicking the "Check for updates" menu item)
12:55:04 <clokep_work> Mic: What is this, Google Chrome? ;)
12:55:20 <flo> Mic: no unique id.
12:55:39 <clokep_work> flo: What're those columns?
12:55:52 <flo> we could attempt to do some computation based on the IP address, but we don't
12:55:56 <clokep_work> Or what's the first one. :)
12:55:58 <Mic> What if it had a unique id just for this purpose?
12:56:15 <Mic> If it was a random number generated exactly once a day (UTC based or so)
12:56:24 <flo> so we can only do some estimates
12:56:39 <flo> we know instantbird does an update check every 24 hours
12:56:41 <Mic> it would allow to identify multiple requests from the same IP
12:56:52 <Mic> and the same client
12:57:02 <flo> so if people had Instantbird running night and days, we would have 1 update ping per user.
12:57:25 <flo> obvioulsy they don't
12:57:47 <Mic> having such an id would give a lower boundary
12:57:50 <flo> so we know counting the pings we have in the server logs are an underestimation.
12:58:03 <clokep_work> flo: Take the data over a few weeks total the number and divide by # of days.
12:58:11 <clokep_work> It'll give you a mu ch better number.
12:58:16 <Mic> I don't think so
12:58:18 <flo> if I remember well what some mozilla people said about the same statistics for Mozilla, we should multiply by a coefficient of about 3 to have the number of daily users
12:59:16 <Mic> I have a better idea
12:59:22 <Mic> What about the number of actual updates?
12:59:35 <Mic> As you can just update once usually, that could give a clue about the total number
12:59:44 <flo> clokep_work: the columns are "count" "date (day/month/year)"
12:59:53 <clokep_work> But you can only do that when a new release comes out.
13:00:09 <Mic> yep
13:00:22 <flo> ah, I should separate release/nightly too :)
13:01:41 <clokep_work> Well the average of all that data is 99, but that's not very helpful. :P Average over the last month is 149.
13:03:29 <Mic> I don't think the average is of use here
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13:03:44 <Mic> I mean: why should it be meaningful?
13:04:37 <clokep_work> Mic: By taking a "running average" it allows you take out days that are significantly more/less tahn other days. I.e. less people may log onto IM networks on Wednesday (for example).
13:04:38 <Mic> We're interested in the total number, not the "total number"*"probability of someone using it on a day" 
13:05:01 <clokep_work> I understand that, but flo is saying possibly multiple by 3, I'm saying multiply the average by 3.
13:05:12 <clokep_work> Statistics wise it should be better to average over a few days first.
13:05:15 * flo is interested in having more of them, whatever the statistics say :-D
13:05:44 <clokep_work> Mic: Perhaps, in that case look at the maximum then. ;)
13:06:17 <clokep_work> A running max would be 197 for the past month.
13:06:27 <flo> clokep_work: yeah, 197 on July 7th => we have about 600 users
13:06:34 <clokep_work> (AKA assumign people who haven't used it in a month don't use it anymore. :P)
13:07:14 <flo> we just need to find a way to multiply that by 100,000 :)
13:07:46 <clokep_work> ... max(range) * 100000 works in MATLAB. ;)
13:08:01 <flo> but I suspect the "retention rate" (which we don't know) will be better with 0.2 than it was with 0.1.3
13:08:18 <clokep_work> Hopefully you can get people that tried it with 0.1.3 to try again and stick this time.
13:08:44 <clokep_work> And the blog posts are good. :)
13:08:58 <flo> we know about 100,000 people tried 0.1, which was well... see for yourself if you like old broken stuff :)
13:09:39 <clokep_work> That's based on downloads?
13:09:46 <flo> yes
13:10:00 <flo> I should have said "downloaded" rather than "tried"
13:10:19 <flo> there's "no way" to be sure people actually try it (or even manager to start it up if they want to try)
13:10:22 <clokep_work> A good metric might be how many downloads of 0.2 there are + how many updates to 0.2 there are + max # of nightly users over a couple of weeks around the release?
13:10:41 <flo> there was no Windows installer up to 0.2b2, and lots of Windows users were very confused because of that
13:10:46 <clokep_work> Sorry, shouldn't really include the downloads there.
13:11:59 <flo> the figures (of update pings) for today will be completely wrong, as we are going to test the new update system by replaying old requests and comparing the results
13:13:12 <clokep_work> flo: Is the data is those links "live"? Or did you just upload a text file for us?
13:13:27 <flo> I just created the text file for you
13:13:38 <flo> in the future I'd like to have some live statistics
13:14:16 <flo> I'd like to know how many users of each version we have, and how it evolves (do people upgrade?)
13:14:30 <flo> by the way, users of 0.1 and 0.1.1 are not counted. The update system was enabled with 0.1.2
13:16:44 <clokep_work> Does that mean there may be some poor users stuck on 0.1? :(
13:16:50 <flo> yes
13:17:03 <Mic> An immature comment ont this would be:
13:17:06 <Mic> FAIL.
13:17:12 <flo> no update, no crash reports. We will never know about them.
13:17:48 <flo> and probably half of the libpurple protocol plugins no longer working
13:18:15 <flo> at least ICQ, QQ, Yahoo. Probably MSN and GaduGadu too.
13:19:19 <clokep_work> I hope no one is still using it then. :)
13:19:59 <flo> if you have some time to waste, download a 0.1 build :)
13:20:27 <flo> I'm not sure if using a current profile on it is safe though :-/
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13:35:06 <flo> to give an idea of the general trend: http://queze.net/goinfre/pings-auto-per-day.png
13:39:53 <clokep_work> Looks like there was a big jump after release.
13:40:01 <clokep_work> Roughly.
13:40:27 <flo> or maybe after each release?
13:40:37 <flo> I should put release dates on that
13:40:45 <flo> hmm, or let someone else do a better graph :)
13:41:19 <flo> by the way, I excluded the manual checks for updates, but those are real users too. Only more impatients and less countable if they frantically click the menuitem several times a day
13:42:35 <clokep_work> flo: If I manually check for an update, does it reset the auto update timer as well?
13:42:42 <flo> I think so
13:44:01 <flo> by the way, the drop around the beginning of 2010 is because we have had some server down time
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13:47:24 <Mic> The short oscillations have most likely a periodicity of a week
13:47:33 <clokep_work> Your silly date format severely confused my Excel. ;)
13:47:34 <Mic> Would fit the to x-ticks
13:47:48 <Mic> *tics
13:48:51 <Mic> Maybe comparing same weekdays would reduce the noise, I guess most peoples live might be pretty periodic with this ;)
13:50:00 <flo> weekly average? ;)
13:50:23 <flo> or min/average/max with 3 different colors?
13:51:04 <Mic> min/max/avg of each week?
13:52:11 <clokep_work> Why don't we just throw std deviations on such on there too? :P
14:10:52 <clokep_work> https://wiki.instantbird.org/images/5/52/Ib_Updates_Releases.png
14:13:44 <flo> the 0.2 alpha/beta could be interesting too
14:13:57 <clokep_work> Those weren't in the timeline. :P
14:13:58 <Mic> the label scaling is strange
14:14:04 <Mic> 18 days per major tic
14:14:06 <clokep_work> Let me find the dates for them...
14:14:23 <clokep_work> Mic: What do youw ant it as? 7 is too short, 28?
14:14:36 <Mic> A multiple of weeks
14:14:39 <Mic> 14? 
14:15:15 <clokep_work> Did 21, since it spaces them out a bit more.
14:20:54 <clokep_work> Updated. :)
14:22:34 <flo> beta 2 was on match 19th
14:22:36 <flo> *March
14:23:25 <clokep_work> Uhh...I forgot there was a beta 2. Blah.
14:23:52 <clokep_work> Anything else while I'm here? :P
14:26:35 <clokep_work> There you go.
14:26:39 <clokep_work> Updated again.
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14:27:57 <flo> I guess for the release dates to be truly meaningful, we would need to have separate data for release/alpha/beta/nightlies
14:28:02 <Mic> hmm, I don't see a correlation between release dates and update pings in this graphic :S
14:28:08 <flo> or each version :)
14:28:36 <clokep_work> Mic: i see one between the release of 0.1.2 and the pings. ;)
14:28:54 <Mic> that's the very first line?
14:28:57 <clokep_work> flo: That's possible, right? The app sends the current version?
14:29:16 <clokep_work> Mic: Well the first "line" is a bunch of lines next toe ach other actually. I didn't add all the dates between.
14:30:11 <flo> clokep_work: yes
14:30:57 <flo> the lines in the log look like: 12/07/2010 15:14:38: http://update.instantbird.org/1/Instantbird/0.2pre/20100709041915/WINNT_x86-msvc/en-US/nightly/Windows_NT%206.1/update.xml
14:31:54 <clokep_work> I see.
14:32:51 <flo> we can also do statistics of crash reports per day :-D
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15:39:12 <Even> I have a new great news for you guys !
15:39:24 <Even> The new update system is on production starting now.
15:39:58 <Even> For all those using nightlies, it means the last one is now available (since starting yesterday they were registering to the new system but the client part was still the old so noone was getting any new update)
15:40:07 <Even> Now you should get updated as intended.
15:40:12 <Even> Hope everything will work fine.
15:40:30 <clokep_work> Awesome, will try it when I get home.
15:40:32 <Even> We did some bit of testing but if you encounter any strange behaviour, we will be pleased to have your feedback on this.
15:41:27 <Even> And this also means that 0.2 official release is one step closer.
15:41:44 <Even> I think we are days away from it now ^^
15:41:57 <Even> Maybe even less, who knows ?
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16:53:08 <iLobster> Greetings
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16:54:16 <clokep_work> How are we supposed to respond after like 15 seconds? :P
16:59:14 <FishFace> heh
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17:11:09 <iLobster> heh, update to 0.3a1pre mark almost all of my installed addons as incompatible =(
17:12:07 <clokep_work> Makes sense as it just came out today.
17:12:14 <clokep_work> You can have it not check compatibility.
17:12:25 <clokep_work> flo: Are you still here?
17:13:33 <tymerkaev> iLobster: create in about:config boolean with extensions.checkCompatibility.0.3a and set it to false
17:16:24 <iLobster> i'm "correcting" install.rdf files for max version 0.3.* atm =)
17:17:09 <clokep_work> Could also check if people updated them already. Not sure which extensions you use...
17:18:43 <iLobster> main for me is mintrayr addon, i'm windows user
17:20:52 <tymerkaev> iLobster: What win version you're using?
17:21:30 <iLobster> tymerkaev: win7 32-bit
17:22:30 <tymerkaev> Why you need mintrayr extension? I think new taskbar makes it unnecessary. ;)
17:23:03 <clokep_work> tymerkaev: I agree. :) But no one else seems to. :(
17:24:01 <Even> @iLobster: try to update
17:24:07 <iLobster> i prefer "oldschool" icon in tray for IM
17:24:24 <Even> I just marked the last version as compatible on the website. I don't know if it will fix the issue though.
17:25:18 <tymerkaev> Even: you'd better update current version to last from Addon's home page.
17:25:42 <Even> ?
17:25:52 <tymerkaev> http://tn123.ath.cx/mintrayr/
17:26:21 <Even> Yep I should.
17:26:31 <tymerkaev> addon's author forget about addons.instantbird.org
17:26:36 <Even> But I'm not the one maintaining this one on 
17:26:41 <Even> Ib.
17:26:45 <iLobster> yes, version on addons.instantbird.org is outdatet and not working good
17:26:52 <Even> So I would prefer to find someone willing to do those updates from now on.
17:27:09 <Even> I'm ready to give admin rights on the extension to anyone willing to update it on a more regular basis.
17:27:32 <Even> *author rights
17:27:40 <Even> Sorry it's not really the same thing :)
17:27:49 <tymerkaev> ...or send a message to maierman@web.de
17:27:59 <tymerkaev> It's his email
17:28:37 <iLobster> author missed last stable songbird update already, may be he is very busy or something...
17:29:35 <Even> The author of the Ib version is not the same one as the author of the extension.
17:29:58 <Even> It's only one of our user that was kind enough to do the actual work of porting it for Instantbird.
17:30:07 <Even> But I believe he is not around anymore.
17:30:46 <tymerkaev> http://svn.tn123.ath.cx/mintrayr/trunk/install.rdf
17:30:48 <Even> Maybe he plans on updating it someday but if you do want updates on a regular basis, then you should consider asking for the author rights on the Instantbird Addons Website.
17:31:15 <Even> Oh, the author is really kind :)
17:31:31 <tymerkaev> Even: Do you have any bug for Jump Lists support?
17:32:41 <Even> I don't have any information about what bug we do have or don't.
17:33:11 <clokep_work> tymerkaev: Search bugzilla. :)
17:33:27 <Even> That seems to be the best way of finding the actual information :)
17:33:41 <-- iLobster has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre)
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17:34:08 <tymerkaev> Even: Do you have admin rights on Bugzilla?
17:34:25 <Even> Nope. Though I could add them to my account easily :D
17:34:48 <Even> For adm actions on bugzilla, I suggest asking to flo.
17:35:15 <clokep_work> Anyone can file a big though...
17:35:29 <Even> I'm not the one responsible for administration tasks in general if it's service usage related.
17:35:41 <Even> i'm more administrating the services as in "they are running as expected"
17:36:34 <clokep_work> flo: Mic: Re: our earlier conversation about # of users http://www.rpi.edu/~clokep/ib/charts/ (neither of who are here...)
17:37:02 <Even> That's mre like my job. If bugzilla don't show up on your browser I'm the good guy to come to.
17:37:42 <Even> But I don't think it's going to happen often. I try to make my life easier by having things actually working :P
17:42:03 <tymerkaev> no flo, no Mic xD
17:50:14 <clokep_work> Yeah, whenever I need 'em, they're not here. :P
17:52:26 <Even> The graph is somehow disappointing.
17:52:48 <clokep_work> You mean in the way it works? I find it pretty awesome in that sense. ;) Or the # of users?
17:52:56 <Even> I know that 1.* releases are somehow not enough but, still, 200 less users. That's sad :P
17:53:16 <Even> Ah, I'm talking about the actual number there ^^
17:54:06 <clokep_work> Well its only 200 that checked for updates during a 24 hour period, the actual number will be higher.
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17:56:05 <Even> Sure.
17:56:31 <clokep_work> But how much higher would be up to debate. :(
17:56:52 <Even> Well, even if we say it's twice as much, which I doubt, it will still be low.
17:56:57 <Even> Ah, flo is there.
17:57:06 <Even> Since you had a lot to tell him, you can as well do so :P
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17:57:42 <clokep_work> Didn't have much to say, just wanted to show him my pretty chart. ;) But I'll let him find it in the logs.
18:01:19 <Even> ahah
18:01:36 <Even> Poor flo.
18:01:47 <flo> clokep_work: it's not "to the Instantbird homepage."
18:02:02 <clokep_work> flo: It was generated off an example, ignore all the text on it.
18:02:08 <flo> or at least, not in the way I understand it :)
18:02:14 <flo> ok :)
18:02:31 <clokep_work> I think I just did a find replace on certain words haha.
18:02:44 <clokep_work> And it zooms. ;)
18:03:12 <Even> YEah I saw that.
18:03:14 <flo> how do you zoom it?
18:03:22 <clokep_work> Click and drag.
18:03:34 <Even> C'est pas les weekend qui sont en gris aussi.
18:03:35 <Even> Ce qui est triste.
18:03:38 <Even> oops
18:03:44 <flo> how do you reset?
18:03:45 <Even> it's not the weekd ends that are greyed
18:03:49 <Even> which is sad
18:03:59 <clokep_work> You can't, just highlight the entire bottom one.
18:04:33 <flo> ok :)
18:04:38 <Even> oh
18:05:09 <Even> I'm sorry, it's more like there is data in it for next month...
18:05:17 <flo> are the dates right?
18:05:23 <Even> I don't think s :P
18:05:28 <flo> the drop is on February the 3rd
18:05:34 <clokep_work> Yeah, I just realizes that...One second.
18:05:41 <Even> Or this chart divined how much user we wilhave next month.
18:05:43 <flo> January seems more likely
18:05:48 <Even> In the case it's true, I advise we do not release.
18:05:54 <flo> ahah
18:06:01 <Even> Or it means we are going to mess up this release too :P
18:09:03 <clokep_work> I think its the mess that is the JS Date class. :) I'm looking.
18:12:30 <clokep_work> Uhh...I think its all off one month for some reason. :)
18:16:58 --> Mic has joined #instantbird
18:18:26 <clokep_work> Doh, JavaScript months go from 0 - 11. :)
18:21:25 <clokep_work> flo: Even: Fixed, sorry about that. :)
18:25:33 <Mic> Nice graph
18:27:13 <Mic> tymerkaev: what's up?
18:27:26 <Mic> I'm reasonable sure that there's no bug for jumplists yet
18:27:48 <tymerkaev> flo: Mic: Re: our earlier conversation about # of users http://www.rpi.edu/~clokep/ib/charts/  (neither of who are here...)
18:27:50 <tymerkaev> [21:37]	<Even>	That's mre like my job. If bugzilla don't show up on your browser I'm the good guy to come to.
18:27:52 <tymerkaev> [21:37]	<Even>	But I don't think it's going to happen often. I try to make my life easier by having things actually working :P
18:27:53 <tymerkaev> [21:42]	<tymerkaev>	no flo, no Mic xD
18:27:56 <Mic> Which might be more like a Mozilla bug though
18:28:07 <Mic> They definitely have one, even patches attached
18:28:16 <Mic> I'm not sure if support has landed yet
18:28:49 <clokep_work> Firefox trunk has jumplists currently I believe...
18:30:38 <Mic> I guess it could be this one: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=473045
18:32:19 <Mic> It was checked in with this patch: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/15f6b7d23ada
18:32:31 <Mic> So yes, it is on the trunk already
18:32:42 <clokep_work> (Shows you how m uch I use them. ;))
18:34:04 <Mic> Reminds me that I should get Windows 7
18:34:51 <Mic> Our university has a partnership program with MS and offers free licenses ..
18:34:59 <Mic> .. I don't mind that ;)
18:35:43 <clokep_work> Nice. :)
18:35:59 <clokep_work> I just got mine for $15 or somethign I think from school.
18:36:02 <Mic> idechix: the Google Talk emoticons don't work with the new nightlies
18:37:11 <Mic> Even, flo: do you think it makes sense notifying extension authors of new versions and asking to update in general?
18:37:40 <Mic> (if they haven't opted out of AIO emails ofcourse)
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18:38:17 <iLobster> nn
18:38:18 <-- iLobster has left #instantbird ()
18:39:58 <Even> Mic: I o think it does make sense.
18:40:04 <Even> *do
18:40:28 <Even> But there is no easy way to do this. The remora website miss the feature "email authors".
18:40:32 <Even> That's sad.
18:40:56 <Even> You don't want to try to do any request in the mess that is the database of this website.
18:41:03 <Even> I nearly forgot to add this :D
18:42:33 <Mic> I think I remember you talking about this mess
18:53:44 <tymerkaev> Even: http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/100711/#m269
18:55:53 <Even> Well, it's not the tip of the iceberg ^^^^
18:56:21 <Even> I have a lot to say about remora but it's mostly not polite so I will keep my comments for me :D
18:56:58 <clokep_work> Even: Did you see the conversation flo and I had about zamboni?
18:57:19 <Even> Nop.
18:57:24 <Even> I don't think so.
18:57:51 <clokep_work> It didn't say much, just that its what the new AMO uses (or will use? Not sure its deployed.)
18:58:10 <Even> (off topic) Did you ever get pissed when someone decides to do exactly the same thing you just did after explaining to him your decision ?
18:58:40 <clokep_work> That happens to me all the time...so yes. ;)
18:59:02 <Even> Okay, wanted to be sure it was not just me :P
18:59:42 <Even> I decided to buy a specific phone with a specific pricing and explained this to a friend that just gonna have the same phone on the same terms at the same moment. And it's really annoying me a LOT.
18:59:49 <clokep_work> Even: One of my friends will do that, then try to convince me it was his idea. ;)
19:00:01 <Even> lol
19:01:07 <-- DetroitLibertyPenguin has quit (Ping timeout)
19:01:13 <Even> The whole thing thought anew, I will just shut up and keep my ideas for myself until it is done.
19:01:25 <Even> And tell my phone is crap even if I don't think so :P
19:01:43 <Even> Might still work if I get the phone soon enough...
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19:12:35 <Even> Explain to him it is crap... find whatever reason to prove my point, and get rid of the feeling.
19:13:28 <idechix> mic: "the Google Talk emoticons don't work with the new nightlies" it should work now
19:14:29 <Even> I have a strange bug with 0.2. It lose focus for Fx time to time. Or maybe Fx takes the focus ? Never saw Fx do that before that often...
19:18:56 <Mic> idechix: thanks:)
19:19:02 <Mic> Why are they experimental by the way?
19:19:48 <idechix> because animated emotes are not really well supported by instanbird
19:20:39 <Mic> ok, you're right
19:21:12 <Mic> I forgot about the problems that sometimes occur with already-there-smilies being animated again when a new one is shown
19:21:31 <idechix> ;)
19:21:41 <idechix> do you use this theme ?
19:23:08 <Mic> Yes
19:23:22 <Mic> So to say it is my favourite
19:23:35 <Mic> I like the fact that it is animated and the icons are really nice looking too
19:26:57 <idechix> I'm glad to see that someone use it :)
19:30:14 <Mic> clokep: I added a nice reference to your addon on the listing of the Link Bugzilla extension, let's hope some people pick it up
19:30:48 <Mic> idechix: what does the status dashboard says on this?
19:31:00 <Mic> I can't imagine I'm the only one using such a nice theme
19:32:24 <clokep_work> Mic: Thanks! I should probably reference that I forked yours...did you update by the way? I version bumped + fixed a filter. :)
19:32:29 <clokep_work> (And verified this time. :P)
19:32:39 <Mic> clokep, clokep_work: I think it would be good to tell on the extension page on AIO which replacements are shipping by default
19:33:05 <clokep_work> Mic: Are you reading my to do list? ;)
19:33:15 <Mic> Common sense :P
19:33:16 <flo> am I the only one who didn't want to update so that his add-ons don't get disabled at the restart? :-D
19:33:37 <Mic> flo: Firefox is suffering a lot from people like you
19:33:50 <Mic> It even made them create Jetpack ;)
19:34:02 <flo> arg, that sucks!
19:34:10 <Mic> Even: did you roll back something on AIO?
19:34:42 <Mic> I'm sure I updated the version number on the extension already :S
19:34:59 <clokep_work> flo: How many addons do you roll that aren't your own? You can just bump the versions. :P
19:35:25 <flo> clokep_work: that's exactly the problem! I miss someone to blame for them not being up to date ;)
19:35:29 <hicham> yeah, bumping the version worked most of the time
19:35:38 <Even> Mic: nope
19:35:51 <Even> Mic I don't have a big roll back button
19:36:05 <Even> Mic : sadly, on some occurences it could prove usefull :D
19:36:30 <flo> wow, I have 10 add-ons installed
19:36:42 <flo> 2 already incompatible with 0.2pre
19:36:44 <Even> wow, that's a huge number...
19:36:47 <flo> one disabled
19:36:49 <Even> lol
19:36:50 <hicham> including the theme
19:37:12 <flo> Link Bugzilla is the only one for which I'm not the maintainer
19:40:05 <clokep_work> flo: My extension is compatible with 0.3a1pre. ;)
19:40:16 <clokep_work> Although entirely untested...
19:40:49 <clokep_work> Can you put links in descriptions for AIO?
19:41:57 <Mic> Afaik no
19:42:39 <Mic> It's a little confusing .. all these summaries, decriptions, notes, comments you can add as extension author
19:43:19 <Mic> Would be nice if you had a view that were like the listing, only with textareas where you could add the comments exactly where they'll appear
19:43:36 <flo> so true!
19:44:07 <clokep_work> Yeah the whole system is kind of eh.
19:44:16 <clokep_work> And now they're integrating MDC stuff into AMO. :(
19:44:28 <Mic> MDC?
19:44:39 <flo> oh...
19:44:42 <Mic> I thought AMO would be closely integrated into the new addons manager?
19:44:43 <clokep_work> Mozilla Developer Center.
19:44:51 <Mic> I know what MDC stands for ;)
19:44:52 <flo> isn't it becoming MDN ?
19:45:05 <clokep_work> It is, but if you go to your dev page on MDC, it has all these links for tutorials and stuff.
19:45:33 <clokep_work> flo: Yes. I think MDN is going to be a merge of MDC + AMO, but it seems to be an idea they didn't think through...
19:45:52 <clokep_work> Mic: You're right, I'm takling about the developer portal.
19:45:54 <flo> I guess that's their business...
19:46:46 <clokep_work> How does my extension have 4 downloads and 13 active daily users? ;)
19:47:30 <Mic> That might be such an update-count thing
19:48:31 <Mic> I was searching for updates a few times since the update to 0.3a1pre (we need a better name for that)
19:49:26 <Even> @clokep_work: I noticed some other strange things like this on addons
19:49:41 <flo> Mic: any naming suggestion?
19:49:52 <Even> @clokep_work: I don't understand how / why such a thing happen but I'm sure I don't want to investigate :P
19:50:17 <clokep_work> Even: Haha, at least I'm not the only one. Doesn't really matter to me, was just curious. :)
19:50:20 <flo> Even: and I hope you also don't *need* to do it ;)
19:50:38 <clokep_work> flo: Trunk? :p
19:50:46 <Mic> hmm, project/codes names in general?
19:52:33 <Even> @flo: I'm sure I don't need to :D. But if you feel the urge to do so, don't hesitate
19:52:48 <flo> well...
19:52:56 <flo> Mic: bird names maybe? :)
19:53:06 <Even> instant ?
19:53:19 <Even> sorry, was bad...
19:53:25 <Even> it's late (for my defense)
19:54:36 <Mic> ambigous bird names? :P
19:54:38 <clokep_work> Could go w/ a dangerous sounding name like Minefield/Shredder. ;)
19:55:02 <clokep_work> By the way the special theme for Halloween is pretty awesome. Was very surprised when it popped up.
19:55:24 <Even> ahah
19:55:26 <flo> heh, you have a good memory!
19:55:28 <Even> I love this one.
19:55:31 <flo> it's not like halloween was yesterday
19:55:38 <flo> I always use it for my debug builds
19:55:52 <Even> When we got the idea with flo I think we were so enthusiast with it we couldn't help ourselves.
19:56:11 <Even> Was so funny.
19:56:13 <flo> and poor idechix got the job of creating it ;)
19:56:33 <Even> Yep. We are'nt good with images so someone ought to get the job !
19:56:37 <flo> oh, maybe for code names we could use names of famous legendary witches
19:56:47 <Mic> That would be cool :)
19:56:51 <Even> Yep.
19:56:53 <Even> No doubt.
19:57:02 <clokep_work> There's famous legendary witches...?
19:57:03 <Mic> Hermione:P
19:57:04 <Mic> scnr
19:57:09 <Even> And for nightlies it ought to be famous developers :P
19:57:37 <Even> Cause geeks can also do magic !
19:57:51 <Even> As anyone who knows some about Ib knows very well :D
19:57:53 <Mic> I remember "Morgan le Fay"
19:57:54 <flo> Even: 363 developers?
19:58:36 <Even> I'm really proud for this
19:58:38 <Even> *one
19:58:57 <Even> I contributed to Instantird in some strange ways :P
19:59:02 <Even> missed a b
19:59:05 <Even> shame on me !
19:59:22 <flo> what were you smoking that day? ;)
19:59:31 * Even is going to punish himself for the typo on this specific word
19:59:48 <Even> Well, you could ask th question more generally.
20:00:17 <Even> I think it's some sort of tire/delirium mixture.
20:00:40 <Even> Probably ask the next witch to know the exact dosage and how to make the potion.
20:00:53 <Even> Since I got the previous one from there.
20:01:12 <Mic> "Morgana" would be a more convient form of "Morgan le Fay"
20:01:28 <Mic> *convenient
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20:06:50 <clokep_work> Mic: OK I've heard of that one. I think my mind was stuck on like Salem Witches here. My bad.
20:08:11 <Mic> DOMi also needs an update
20:08:44 <Mic> lol
20:08:56 <Mic> I've got three big button over my addon manager atm
20:09:14 <Mic> "Connect", "Disconnect", "Sync now"
20:09:27 <Mic> unfortunately they're "floating in mid-air"
20:09:54 <Mic> No UI around .. seems the sync plugin will need some tweaking (not speaking of all the tweaking it will need in general;)
20:10:04 <Mic> *extension
20:11:31 <clokep_work> Mic: Exciting though! :) Are you working off the last version of Weave or the code that was added to Firefox?
20:13:10 <Mic> The latest release
20:13:25 <Mic> I was thinking of trying to make it an extension first
20:14:04 <Mic> If I manage to get through .. I assume it's quite a pile of work
20:14:42 <clokep_work> Most likely. I might be interested in helping although it probably needs to "run" first before I can help at all.
20:16:20 <deOmega> ho... i see .3 nightly is out...  if i  update to it can i just manually modify the version area of all the addons and  be godo to go?
20:16:53 <deOmega> * hi.. fingers  in pain sorry
20:17:04 <clokep_work> deOmega: Yeah, some of them have been updated to. Could also change the about:config entry to ignore compatibility, though that's "frowned upon" by some I 'pose.
20:17:33 <deOmega> i woudl be happy to  do that aspect of the about config
20:17:42 <deOmega> what entry do i look for?
20:18:23 <deOmega> extensions.lastAppVersion;0.2pre?
20:18:27 <clokep_work> You need to create a bool entry: extensions.checkCompatibility.0.3a and set it to false, I thinkt hat's the proper one, can anyone confirm?
20:20:17 <deOmega> app.update.incompatible.mode;0  i see this
20:21:42 <deOmega> clokep_work:  I will  mess around with it.. thank u very much
20:22:26 <deOmega> will inform you guys when  it is finally broken :0
20:22:30 <clokep_work> No problem. I can check when I'm home actually.
20:22:45 <clokep_work> deOmega: Should have a version of vertical tabs + drag and drop out this week. :)
20:22:49 <deOmega> ok
20:23:17 <deOmega> drag and drop what?
20:23:30 <deOmega> Drag and drop tabs work for me is why I am asking
20:24:10 <clokep_work> Drag and drop tabs.
20:24:14 <clokep_work> They shouldn't work...
20:24:21 <clokep_work> Drag and drop reordering of tabs.
20:24:59 <deOmega> ah, no, that does not.. that is pretty neat
20:25:47 <deOmega> I will leave this on so you can gve me the  info what u get  home to ignore compatibility check.  
20:25:56 <deOmega> thank you
20:27:54 <clokep_work> No problem.
20:28:46 <deOmega> According to Mozilla knowledge base.. this should be it: app.update.incompatible.mode.. however, it shroud be set to '0' to ignore and currently, that is the setting.  So :).
20:29:09 <clokep_work> I think that has to do with application updates, not extension updates.
20:29:34 <deOmega> ah..ok
20:31:54 <-- deOmega has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre)
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20:35:32 <deOmega> actually, that worked.. thank you
20:36:05 <deOmega> says addon compatibility checking is disabled.
20:36:34 * Mic has not the slightest clue where to start
20:37:09 <clokep_work> Start with the errors. ;)
20:37:24 <Mic> I do ..
20:38:04 <Mic> Right now I'm trying to disable all the "engines" (that's the parts that are responsible for synving something .. bookmarks for example (which we don't have;))
20:38:18 <hicham> flo : is there a way to build with mozilla sdk on the system, i mean without having to pull the whole mozilla on IB source tree ?
20:38:25 <clokep_work> Mic: /* */ ? ;)
20:38:57 <Mic> ah, that was the missing piece, thanks a lot! :)
20:39:01 <Mic> ;)
20:39:02 <flo> hicham: you need to pull it. But you can use the mozilla sdk of the system to build
20:39:24 <flo> in this case only a few files of the mozilla builds system will be used from the source code that you have pulled
20:39:44 <hicham> flo : those files aren't on the sdk ?
20:40:21 <flo> it's probably the files used to detect that you do have a valid sdk :-/
20:41:05 <flo> Mic, clokep_work: do you have a Google Wave account?
20:41:15 <Mic> No
20:41:25 <clokep_work> flo: Yes. Although not with my email I use for Mozilla stuff.
20:41:29 <Mic> I wouldn't mind trying if you have a convincing reason
20:41:30 * clokep_work goes to invite himself.
20:41:38 <clokep_work> Mic: I can send you an invite?
20:41:45 <Mic> sure
20:41:51 <Mic> I'll pm my email adress
20:42:02 <flo> we are currently editing the page that will replace the current outdated page at www.instantbird.org
20:42:02 <Even> h, I would have invited Mic but that works too :P
20:42:20 <Even> It seems we can have all the invitations we want to :P
20:42:31 <flo> and we could really use more people for proof reading / making sure it seems natural for people who are not French ;)
20:42:37 <hicham> flo : i guess only the build/config folder is used from the mozilla tree ?
20:42:38 <Even> And Wave is a cool tool to interact / work together on a document.
20:42:49 <flo> hicham: probably. I haven't checked though.
20:43:20 <Even> oO
20:43:33 <Even> I nearly forgot, there is no more need to have a Wave account to be part of a Wave !
20:43:55 <Even> It's possible to add regular email adresses in a Wave though I don't really know how this works.
20:44:09 <flo> let's try inviting contact@ib.org :-D
20:44:12 <tymerkaev> Wave?
20:44:16 <Even> Why not :)
20:44:20 <clokep_work> Even: But it still needs to be a Google Account, right?
20:44:26 <clokep_work> Like it has to be registered with Google I assume...
20:44:30 <tymerkaev> Google Wave?
20:44:41 <flo> "Email contact@instantbird.org an invitation to this wave?" hmm...
20:45:11 <flo> Even: apparently the "You can now add any email address to a wave!" thing just sends invites...
20:45:25 <Even> ^^
20:45:35 <Even> And you need an account to use them ?
20:45:38 <clokep_work> Uhh...so I don't really remember how to use Wave...
20:45:52 <Even> I tried... I thought, maybe it's like google docs, give you something like a specific access to the wave...
20:46:25 <Even> @tymerkaev: never heard of Google Wave ?
20:46:40 <clokep_work> Flo: How do I join your wave or whatever/ :P
20:46:40 <Mic> Not there yet
20:46:41 <Even> If not, I really want to know in which world you live in. But it's not Earth :P
20:47:06 <Even> http://wave.google.com/
20:47:12 <tymerkaev> no, I don't know why it needed
20:47:58 <Even> If you are logged into your Google Account on another service you'll get through instead of being stuck to the presentation page.
20:49:08 <tymerkaev> tymerkaev@googlewave.com
20:49:34 <tymerkaev> but I see that queze.f@googlewave.com haven't Wave account ;)
20:51:00 <tymerkaev> *hasn't
20:51:04 * clokep_work will be going home in a few minutes -- but leave info with clokep and I'll be back soon.
20:51:21 <Even> it's f.queze
20:51:25 <Even> not queze.f
20:51:52 <Even> ok thanks clokep
20:52:09 <Even> we just need your wave adress for us to add you to the wave
20:52:20 <Even> if you don't have wave, then just give me a regular adress
20:52:47 <clokep_work> clokep@googlewave.com
20:53:05 <Even> thanks
20:53:31 <Even> mic, can you PM me your GMail adress if you don't have receive an invitation from clokep and I will invite you myself
20:54:28 <Even> otherwise, just PM (or give me here, as you want) your brand new Wave adress :)
20:55:25 <flo> (by the way, you don't have to do this. We were just offering to be a bit more open in the way we create this document)
20:56:01 <clokep_work> I'm interested, will definitely read it at home. 
20:56:58 <Even> ^^
20:56:59 <Mic> hmm, I just signed in
20:57:04 <Even> cool
20:57:06 <Mic> IT doesn't take invitations anymore it says
20:57:12 <Mic> *It
20:57:42 --> DGMurdockIII has joined #instantbird
20:58:24 <Even> You can't get in ?
20:58:38 <clokep_work> Be back in a bit.
20:58:41 <-- clokep_work has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
20:59:10 <Mic> mic31415@googlewave.com
20:59:38 <Even> thx
20:59:44 <Even> I inite you right away.
20:59:57 <Even> Done.
21:01:11 <Mic> Thank you
21:01:21 <Mic> Now let's see how that works
21:01:35 <Mic> Maybe it would be polite to change my name to something reasonable ;)
21:01:46 <Even> Could be a good idea yes :)
21:03:41 <Even> You should have a "Profile" Wave.
21:03:53 <Even> you make edit on it and set your name / status in it.
21:04:52 <deOmega> You guys are referring to some programming thingy that  you are going to tackle, correct?  So you are ok?  I would hate to be here thinking you need my help and I am being quiet.
21:05:26 <Even> I think we are ok.
21:05:38 <Even> And we were talking about the future release announce.
21:05:39 <deOmega> ok, great
21:05:46 <deOmega> Thank you
21:06:12 <Even> Since this long awaited time is coming upon us as we speak :P
21:07:27 <Even> deOmega: do you want to help on the announce redaction ?
21:07:44 <Even> It's possible if you know a little Google Wave.
21:09:18 <deOmega> Even: I would make time if you need another set of eyes.. i saw flo mention something about the fact that  some of you may not be  English speaking... ell.. English tongue... But  only if you need another set of eyes, otherwise  no need
21:09:23 <flo> Even: the announcement blog post is something we need to write next ;).
21:09:27 <deOmega> I am familiar with wave.. have used it
21:10:05 <flo> we are currently writing/improving the page that will be on www.instantbird.org
21:10:32 <Mic> "Should be human" if that doesn't get you into trouble with Mark Shuttleworth ;)
21:10:37 <flo> it's in two parts, the first will state our values, what unites all of us here. The second part will explain how people can join us if they share these beliefs
21:12:03 <flo> having people who are not computer programmers making sure it's understandable for them could help :)
21:12:48 <deOmega> flo: Ah.. then  I  could help there 
21:13:29 <Even> Thanks :)
21:13:31 <flo> deOmega: ok, I've just added you
21:13:49 <deOmega> I will  certainly try to take a look over... Ok Flo
21:14:04 <Even> Thanks you very much :)
21:14:42 <deOmega> Is there an edit window timeframe?
21:14:57 <deOmega> timeframe in which to edit
21:15:24 <Even> Well, I think the sooner the better.
21:15:53 <Even> We're still working on those last actions are what is missing us to release.
21:16:17 <Even> ow
21:16:22 <Even> That sentence makes no sense :P
21:16:39 <Even> I think I mixed two in one in my head :D
21:17:32 <deOmega> believe it or not, I understand LOL
21:17:32 <Even> "We're still working on those last actions that are preventing us from releasing. This one being part of those."
21:18:01 <deOmega> THEN i must work with haste rotflol
21:18:16 <Even> pp
21:18:36 <Even> I could't understand myself. Don't know how you achieved this ^^
21:18:46 <flo> if everything does fine, the release is likely to be tomorrow afternoon (european time).
21:18:59 <flo> *goes
21:19:08 <Even> Well, I believe this night is somehow a typo party :P
21:20:15 <deOmega> Even: I understood because i type enough gibberish to  see what people may be trying to say.  
21:20:58 <deOmega> flo: I will assign some time tonight .
21:21:42 <flo> don't worry with it if you are busy
21:22:07 <deOmega> No, this is important to me too.
21:22:52 <-- Even has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre)
21:22:55 <flo> I somehow think that we should have discussed the content of that page a long time ago with more time to iterate, but well... we procrastinated it way to much
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21:22:57 * ChanServ sets mode +o Even 
21:23:01 <Even> ah
21:23:16 <Even> It's so much beter now that I reactivated NickServKiller.
21:23:23 * flo is excited to see people leaving with "0.3a1pre" :)
21:23:30 <Even> Wow, I always have a freeze at startup.
21:23:33 <Even> It's really annoying.
21:23:57 <Even> I think that populating the buddy list is really freezing the whole app for too much time.
21:25:06 <Even> flo: lol, somehow childish ^^
21:25:14 <Even> flo: but so much understandable :D
21:27:01 <clokep> OK, so...what're we doing with this thing? :P
21:27:23 <flo> trying to get people excited and have them coming here to help :)
21:28:03 <clokep> Right, should I reply w/ edits or edit edits? ;)
21:28:16 <Even> Well, a good mix of those.
21:28:23 <flo> whatever
21:28:29 <flo> google wave is a battle field :)
21:28:37 <Even> Good point !
21:29:04 <Even> And you make your situation better each time you improve the overall result.
21:30:05 <flo> our situation ;)
21:30:59 <deOmega> Man,  Cloke  moving like teh wind
21:31:33 <Even> yep ^^
21:31:39 <Even> and yep too :P
21:31:46 <deOmega> I am observing for now
21:32:06 <deOmega> will shower and   come back to check on it
21:33:35 <clokep> Some of these sentences seem to be continuations off of "We believe instant messaging is..." and others aren't. Its awkward.
21:33:51 <Even> Thereis two levels.
21:33:55 <Even> First are continuation
21:34:06 <Even> And seconds precisions about the point
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21:34:12 <Even> At least it's how I saw the thing.
21:34:16 <flo> yes
21:34:46 <flo> We believe: <list of ideas, each idea explained by a small paragraph>
21:34:52 <clokep> Ah, I thought they were all li, you're right. :)
21:34:59 <flo> it used to be "We believe that instant messaging:"
21:35:00 <Even> well
21:35:08 <Even> we started from an html thing
21:35:12 <Even> so we used wave to present it
21:35:18 <Even> and then changed the presentation
21:35:29 <Even> and didn't always adapted the html thing with it :P
21:36:09 <Even> so sometimes the html parts are reflecting the presentation and sometimes there is more information in the presentation ^^
21:37:40 <clokep> Got it. :)
21:42:59 * clokep is now on 0.3a1pre ;)
21:43:19 <skeledrew> clokep: release?
21:43:45 <clokep> skeledrew: What?
21:44:06 <skeledrew> clokep: official release?
21:44:12 <clokep> No, nightly.
21:44:20 <skeledrew> oh. k
21:44:47 <Even> when there is a "pre" in the version name it is unlikely to be a release :)
21:45:04 <skeledrew> ah yes. my bad
21:45:22 <Even> but there, you have a good indicator
21:45:38 <Even> because the nightlies bumped to a new branch, it probably means the previous is very near release ^^
21:45:47 <Even> Wich is the case here ^^
21:45:53 <skeledrew> hmm
21:45:56 <Even> 0.2 final on its way ^^
21:46:12 <skeledrew> nice
21:48:34 <Even> Yes!
21:50:07 <Even> Ok, I'm tired guys. I'll go see if my bed thinks so too.
21:50:48 <Even> Hope it will because if it doesn't I'll have to persuade him which is going to be bloody.
21:50:54 <Even> Good night!
21:51:06 <Even> *perduade it
21:51:10 <Even> *aaah
21:51:16 <tymerkaev> First mockup of Logs Viewer in 0.3 or 0.4 drawed - http://img690.imageshack.us/i/logsvieweri1.png/
21:51:18 <Even> I won't try to correct myself anymore.
21:51:22 <Even> Lost cause :)
21:51:26 <Even> Night!
21:51:32 <skeledrew> lol
21:52:02 <skeledrew> g'evening
21:52:11 <tymerkaev> What do you think?
21:52:18 * Mic won't try to catch up on all this chatting
21:52:25 <Mic> Good night
21:52:27 <clokep> tymerkaev: Very nice. :)
21:53:47 <tymerkaev> I work on mockup variants last three months. I think that better solution.
21:54:22 <clokep> tymerkaev: Instead of year, month, day why not a drop down calendar? XUL has one I believe...
21:54:31 <-- Even has quit (Ping timeout)
21:54:33 <tymerkaev> Even: your opinion
21:54:37 <tymerkaev> xD
21:54:43 <tymerkaev> flo?
21:55:23 <tymerkaev> ah, I'm already have an idea for it, but I forget about add it to mockup.
21:56:15 <Mic> I could imagine some pretty fancy stuff using a canvas to draw on
21:56:55 <tymerkaev> yep, Pencil is the best. ;)
21:57:03 * Mic reminds himself that he wanted to leave
21:57:31 <Mic> true, but I was referring to html canvas element here
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21:59:58 <tymerkaev> flo: ping
22:07:59 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Quit: The cake is a lie !)
22:08:46 <flo> ok guys. I really appreciate the time you are putting into this, but I'm too tired to continue with you this evening. I'll collect the result tomorrow morning (in my time), and put a "final" (we can still make changes later of course) version online. I'm sure it's going to be great :).
22:08:56 <flo> good afternoon/evening/night! :)
22:09:15 <deOmega> flo: night flo
22:09:23 <flo> thanks :)
22:09:37 <deOmega> I am taking my time
22:11:21 <deOmega> I see all these characters on on teh page and just assume there will be something else there, so i am just going with the meaning of each statement by itself and its impact
22:14:23 <clokep> Yeah. I'm going to go through it once more in a little while. But now its dinner time. :)
22:18:00 <tymerkaev> sleep sleep sleep...
22:18:20 * tymerkaev is now known as tymerkaev-afk
22:23:26 <deOmega> I like this thus far..  is it on apage somewhere so i can see it as ahuman being? lol
22:29:01 <deOmega> so, in a case like this, fyi.. I am merely saying, make the word 'report' a hyperlink   :  report(link to bugzilla) 
22:31:29 <-- DetroitLibertyPenguin has left #instantbird ()
22:31:45 * clokep is now known as clokep_afk
22:52:25 <-- tymerkaev-afk has quit (Ping timeout)
22:59:26 <deOmega> I need to apologize to you guys.. to be honest, with all the web stuff..  the message or format you were trying to deliver was lost
23:00:08 <deOmega> so.. i am  writing it in  normal human being format.. to give my input that way, and then you can  'Web it up'
23:06:19 <deOmega> was lost to me
23:06:31 <deOmega> *was lost to me
23:12:04 <clokep_afk> Content is more important. I'm sure flo will reorganize the coding portion. :)
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23:28:46 <deOmega> clokep_afk: ok done
23:29:23 <deOmega> I believe that I lost their initial idea of  pointing out what they believe in
23:29:40 <deOmega> so, I  made an entry that covers it in that format
23:29:51 <deOmega> I hope it is enjoyable :0
23:30:22 <clokep_afk> Sweet, I'll cehck it out again soon. :)
23:40:40 <deOmega> clokep_afk: I have actually somewhat reordered everything
23:41:08 <deOmega> and posted everything in a reply as opposed to  in teh main item
23:41:57 <clokep_afk> Mmhmm.
23:45:34 <clokep_afk> Looks good.
23:45:38 <clokep_afk> I'm done with it for now though. :)
23:49:59 <deOmega> me too, doing some emails theni am out of here.  Thank you
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23:55:25 <deOmega> night all
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