#instantbird log on 09 21 2016

All times are UTC.

00:00:01 <freaktechnik> and multi-prefix
00:00:13 <freaktechnik> but I guess those existed before and were converted from ISUPPORT ones
00:00:44 <freaktechnik> (all networks I'm on, that somehow got lost)
00:01:01 <freaktechnik> half of them have account-notify and extended-join
00:01:07 <freaktechnik> and sasl
00:01:21 <freaktechnik> and then one each has tls, identify-msg and away-notify
00:01:48 <freaktechnik> and that's not even requesting with the 3.2 cap, since in theory 3.2 and bigger caps should only be returned when the client does 3.2 cap, which instantbird doesn't...
00:03:35 <freaktechnik> (and I know that on the little network I'm on that doesn't expose any caps the ircd would support them, it's just that the netop has them all disabled)
00:04:10 <freaktechnik> there's also the pretty green tables on http://ircv3.net/software/servers.html
00:04:58 <aleth> IB has a lot of 3.1 though
00:05:45 <freaktechnik> none of the optional ones.
00:05:54 <aleth> do you have a use for them? 
00:06:11 <aleth> often you'd have to find a sensible UI for it
00:06:22 <aleth> if nobody ask for it, it's just clutter
00:06:29 <freaktechnik> away-notify kind of sounds useful for faster updates of tooltips, though I don't know what monitor currently does.
00:07:21 <freaktechnik> and both account-notify and extended-join would need additional UI, as currently not much authentication info is exposed (other than "registered")
00:07:29 <aleth> I don't really understand how away-notify is supposed to intersect with monitor
00:07:49 <freaktechnik> well, as I said, I don't know what monitor does...
00:08:24 <aleth> I suppose away-notify is for participant lists, like monitor is for the contact list
00:09:04 <freaktechnik> (haven't read that spec yet, as it's already implemented and other than freenode complaining that it doesn't recognize the MONITOR command always bothering me I've never come into contact with it)
00:09:26 <freaktechnik> (I also wonder why MONITOR gets sent in the first place, as I have no IRC buddies on my contact list)
00:09:53 <aleth> no idea, could probably do with some debugging ;)
00:10:00 <freaktechnik> probably, yeah
00:11:56 <freaktechnik> I've been thinking about looking into cap v3.2, as I'm planning to upgrade my ZNC to one that supports cap-notify, which would be quite handy. Though https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1302447 is way cooler.
00:11:58 <instantbot> Bug 1302447 enh, --, ---, martin, ASSI, Implement IRCv3.2 server-time capability
00:12:35 <aleth> Yes, that should make bouncer users happy!
00:13:40 <freaktechnik> yes, it feels so much nicer, it will also look way better if you also buffer joins/parts
00:14:25 <freaktechnik> (though I haven't tested how well that works, as my ZNC doesn't support logging them. I really have to upgrade my ZNC)
00:14:45 <aleth> there's the longstanding Bug 954662
00:14:48 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=954662 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Join/part messages should be handled by imConversations.js.
00:15:14 <freaktechnik> well, the bigger problem would be, that the joins and parts get processed by their normal command handlers
00:15:24 <freaktechnik> and ZNC probably still sends  NAMES beforehand
00:16:14 <freaktechnik> though it shouldn't if it properly replays, but there's no real spec for buffers yet, other than http://ircv3.net/specs/extensions/batch/chathistory-3.3.html
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00:53:36 <thetj> Hi all--has IB development completely stopped?
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04:40:56 <instant-buildbot> build #830 of linux64-nightly-default is complete: Success [3build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux64-nightly-default/builds/830
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05:26:37 <instant-buildbot> build #3301 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [3build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/3301
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09:50:25 <flo-retina> aleth: the update server seems to be doing fine. I'm stuck on the build from august 29, but https://update.instantbird.org/1/Instantbird/1.6a1pre/20160829041505/Darwin_x86_64-gcc3-u-i386-x86_64/en-US/nightly/Darwin%2015.6.0/update-force.xml seems OK.
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09:51:42 <flo-retina> so there must have been a change on the client side somehow.
09:56:56 <flo-retina> I don't remember if there's an easy way to enable debug logging for the update service
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10:59:28 <aleth> flo-retina: set app.update.log to true
10:59:42 <aleth> I get "AUS:SVC UpdateService:selectUpdate - skipping update because the update's application version is less than the current application version"
11:00:53 <flo-retina> interesting
11:00:56 <flo-retina> that'll need debugging!
11:04:25 <aleth> Hmm, the log has ...Darwin%2016.0.0 in the path while what you pasted has Darwin%2015.6.0
11:06:30 <flo-retina> does that matter?
11:07:54 <aleth> no idea
11:08:04 <flo-retina> the pings from 20160828041407 are stuck on the build from August 28th.
11:08:08 <flo-retina> I'm on August 29.
11:09:02 <flo-retina> on the servier we got pings for this:
11:09:03 <flo-retina> Instantbird/1.6a1pre/20160828041407/Darwin_x86_64-gcc3-u-i386-x86_64/en-US/nightly/Darwin 16.0.0/update-force.xml
11:09:03 <flo-retina> Instantbird/1.6a1pre/20160829041505/Darwin_x86_64-gcc3-u-i386-x86_64/en-US/nightly/Darwin 15.6.0/update-force.xml
11:09:03 <flo-retina> Instantbird/1.6a1pre/20160829041505/Darwin_x86_64-gcc3-u-i386-x86_64/en-US/nightly/Darwin 14.5.0/update.xml
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15:46:21 <clokep_work> freaktechnik: IRCv3 asserts the protocol is UTF-8.
15:46:25 <clokep_work> So there's no need to negotiate.
15:46:33 <freaktechnik> huh
15:46:42 <freaktechnik> interesting that some servers then still send you non-utf8
15:46:54 <clokep_work> Some still treat it as just a bunch of bytes.
15:47:01 <clokep_work> What do you mean "send you non-utf8"
15:47:03 <freaktechnik> but I guess most just forward the messages from users.
15:47:06 <clokep_work> Yes.
15:47:12 <clokep_work> It doesn't do anything encoding/decoding of messages.
15:47:50 <freaktechnik> so having something that indicates "this user is utf-8 for sure" still seems like a nice idea. But it's not fundamental, since every irc client knows about encoding sniffing these days.
15:49:11 <clokep_work> We don't do encoding sniffing. ;)
15:49:30 <clokep_work> We talked about it.
15:49:34 <clokep_work> But it seemed like a waste of time.
15:54:14 <clokep_work> (You also theoretically need to do it for each user on each channel...and who knows, someone could be sending each message in a different encoding.)
15:54:19 <clokep_work> So...you're screwed pretty much.
15:54:50 <freaktechnik> ...yeah
15:55:06 <freaktechnik> but I like people that ask me why I am sending squares when I'm the one with utf8 encoding.
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17:05:35 <clokep_work> Well that always stinks,y eah. :(
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17:17:00 <arlolra> does auto-join password protected channels work for xmpp? https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/20199
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17:27:15 <aleth> arlolra: bug 954491 says yes
17:27:17 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=954491 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO WORKSFORME, xmpp autojoin chat room with a password are not supported by the current auto-join feature.
17:28:19 <arlolra> great, thanks
17:28:31 <arlolra> was just starting to test
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17:42:04 <clokep_work> arlolra: The auto-join stuff probably needs to be redesigned for that. :(
17:42:11 <clokep_work> As in passwords probably need to be saved in the password manager.
17:43:26 <freaktechnik> and auto join needs to be generalized
17:43:29 <freaktechnik> so it's not hardcoded.
17:43:39 <freaktechnik> so any protocol can use it :)
17:45:15 <clokep_work> Yeah. :(
17:45:19 <clokep_work> Tech debt, yay...
17:46:27 <aleth> auto join has been slated for replacement for years... but nobody has done it ;)
17:49:05 * arlolra patiently waits for it to be fixed upstream
17:50:56 <arlolra> https://freenode.net/news/resurrecting-tor
17:51:29 <arlolra> https://freenode.net/news/tor-online
17:53:52 <aleth> it needs a volunteer who cares about the password storage...
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18:11:32 <arlolra> clokep_work: does IB do SASL EXTERNAL?
18:11:48 <clokep_work> arlolra: No.
18:11:53 <arlolra> :(
18:12:05 <clokep_work> aleth: I think I worked on that actually?
18:12:28 <clokep_work> Oh, no I didn't.
18:12:39 <clokep_work> I started working on account prefs in the password mgr.
18:12:49 <clokep_work> arlolra: SASL EXTERNAL never made sense to me, frankly.
18:12:54 <clokep_work> Also I don't think *anyone* uses it for IRC.
18:12:57 <clokep_work> But apparently I'm wrong.
18:13:25 <arlolra> yeah, freenode wants it
18:13:29 <arlolra> to connect over tor
18:13:39 <arlolra> looks like we're going to have to dig in there
18:14:51 <aleth> you'll find IRC is very nicely extensible
18:16:59 <arlolra> :)
18:17:03 <freaktechnik> well, parts of it...
18:17:59 <freaktechnik> though sasl is pretty isolated, which is nice :)
18:20:01 <clokep_work> Still extensible...
18:23:35 <clokep_work> arlolra: It says that SASL isn't available via Tor?
18:23:38 <clokep_work> Only certs are?
18:23:53 <clokep_work> Oh...those two articles conflict, never mind.
18:24:08 <arlolra> " pass­word-based SASL"
18:24:22 <arlolra> they don't confict
18:27:24 <clokep_work> Umm...aren't all SASL password based? :P
18:29:07 <arlolra> idk
18:33:24 <freaktechnik> that's kind of the point of SASL, isn't it?
18:34:05 <freaktechnik> So with the new twitter I'm getting tweets that look like "First board game night at @liip in a long time. First game of Citadels ever! With Dutch cards ;) Thanks to… twitter.com/i/web/status/7…" in instantbrid :S
18:34:34 <aleth> Did that tweet length change happen?
18:34:35 <freaktechnik> while the full tweet is "First board game night at @liip in a long time. First game of Citadels ever! With Dutch cards ;) Thanks to @michellesanver @syzer3 and all!" + picture
18:34:41 <freaktechnik> yes, rolled out yesterday I think
18:34:47 <freaktechnik> no, two days ago, actually
18:34:49 <aleth> File a bug please ;)
18:35:12 <aleth> Didn't you have some nice patch coming up that optionally included the picture too?
18:35:24 <freaktechnik> no
18:35:31 <freaktechnik> nothing nice to see there :(
18:35:41 <freaktechnik> I guess https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1275284 would count?
18:35:43 <instantbot> Bug 1275284 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Ensure Twitter code will still work after changes to character limit
18:40:10 <aleth> :-)
18:40:44 <aleth> We'll need to do this for the TB ESR anyway
18:41:38 <aleth> So it's still 140 chars, but links etc get counted differently?
18:41:53 <freaktechnik> links not.
18:42:01 <freaktechnik> but all the other interactive content doesn't get counted.
18:42:19 <freaktechnik> so attachments & reply mentions aren't counted
18:42:24 <freaktechnik> (just mentions count)
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21:24:59 <aleth> flo-retina: does something in here jump out at you? https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/bf6750f13711
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21:43:58 <flo-retina> aleth: https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/bf6750f13711#l7.12 ?
21:45:39 <flo-retina> we have "version" and "extensionVersion" in our xml file
21:45:43 <flo-retina> but no appVersion
21:46:30 <aleth> more likely https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/bf6750f13711#l7.36 or https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/bf6750f13711#l7.59 then?
21:47:18 <aleth> 7.12ff shouldn't affect daily updates I think
21:47:28 <flo-retina> yeah, I just meant it looks like there's an appVersion attribute we are supposed to have and that it's likely becoming required, either intentionally or by accident
21:47:43 <aleth> yeah
21:47:57 <aleth> what generates the xml file?
21:47:57 <flo-retina> so if somehow we are not providing it and it returns "", that's likely becoming a version number of 0, which is indeed inferior to the current version
21:48:03 <flo-retina> our update server
21:48:20 <flo-retina> should we just add that attribute and attempt to check for update again?
21:48:26 <aleth> it could write extensionVersion into appVersion as well, if that hypothesis is correct it should then work
21:50:46 <flo-retina> what's https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/bf6750f13711#l7.123 ?
21:51:12 <flo-retina> is there an easy way for us to get a Firefox .xml file?
21:52:56 <aleth> that code really insists on appVersion https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/bf6750f13711#l7.104
21:56:07 <aleth> that's in Update.serialize(), the comment is "If appVersion isn't defined just return null. This happens when cleaning up invalid updates (e.g. incorrect channel)."
21:56:53 <aleth> not exactly sure why that function turns updates into DOM elements though...
21:57:48 <flo-retina> so... do you think we should try changing that on the server?
21:57:56 <aleth> seems worth a try
21:58:16 <aleth> Though the fact it's missing makes one wonder what else is out of date
22:00:10 <aleth> there also seems to be a previousAppVersion in some places
22:04:09 <flo-retina>   $page .= ' <update type="'.$row->type.'" version="'.$row->version.'" extensionVersion="'.$row->version.'" buildID="'.$row->build_id.'" detailsURL="'.$url_info.'">'."\\
22:04:10 <flo-retina> I didn't remember PHP was that ugly
22:05:13 <aleth> dots all over the place
22:06:52 <flo-retina> FIXED! \o/
22:06:59 <aleth> :-)
22:07:15 <flo-retina> aleth: thanks for digging through these patches! :)
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22:36:47 <freaktechnik> php is the only language template strings are regarded as ugly and slow...
22:36:55 <freaktechnik> (at least that I have come accross)
22:39:09 <EionRobb> flo-retina: that code is bad that it's not escaping xml entities
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