#instantbird log on 12 22 2015

All times are UTC.

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00:52:37 <tabris> is this thing dead?
00:53:59 <clokep> No.
00:54:08 <clokep> And that's kind of rude. :-\
00:55:44 <tabris> no intention
00:56:35 <tabris> I was about to get involved with this project in the past because pidgin sucks
00:57:10 <tabris> but I ended up working on pidgin++
00:57:59 <tabris> I spent 99% of the time with secondary irrelevant code issues and problems, I never have time for the features, for the end users
00:58:00 <clokep> Is pidgin++ still a thing? :P
00:58:15 <clokep> Yeah, that can be af rustrating thing.
00:58:20 <clokep> With any open source project.
00:58:37 <tabris> sometimes I wonder if pidgin sucks so hard, would pidgin++ make it suck even harder? lol
01:00:39 <tabris> frustration is more because of using a language designed for writing hardware drivers and operating systems
01:01:24 <clokep> I mostly was just frustrated with Pidgin's UI looking subpar on Windows/Mac.
01:03:34 <tabris> and because the code is a mess, I waste much time with it :(
01:04:36 <tabris> yeah not to mention writing gtk+ gui by hand in C
01:06:02 <tabris> the code for the chat window I'm using right now is amazing, full of html inside c strings
01:06:02 <clokep> I try to stay away from GTK+.
01:06:29 <tabris> last time I checked you people were rewriting libpurple in javascript @@ did you complete it
01:07:35 <clokep> That was never a goal.
01:07:52 <clokep> We have implementations of IRC, XMPP and Yahoo Messenger in javaScript.
01:07:59 <clokep> Along with bits and pieces of other protocols.
01:08:23 <clokep> That covers most people's uses...
01:08:33 <clokep> Although Facebook seems to be disabling their XMPP stuff finally so we need to figure that out.
01:08:39 <tabris> I see
01:08:50 <tabris> yeah they did drop xmpp
01:08:59 <clokep> Kind of, it still works for some poeple.
01:09:02 <clokep> Worked for me until last week.
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01:09:12 <clokep> It still works for nhnt11 (who seems to be asleep).
01:10:54 <clokep> So that's slightly confusing. :)
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01:11:44 <tabris> pidgin users' buzz now are plugins for skype, whatsapp and the new facebook
01:13:53 <tabris> does florian still lead the project?
01:16:44 <clokep> Yes.
01:16:54 <clokep> I wasn't anywhere of people working on WhatsApp.
01:17:19 <clokep> I thought they were extremely hostile to 3rd parties.
01:18:11 <tabris> me too, not sure why this guy did not care https://github.com/davidgfnet/whatsapp-purple
01:20:14 <tabris> he needed  to remove the icon, heh
01:20:31 <EionRobb> yeah, extremely hostile. lots of dmca takedowns and stuff
01:20:31 <tabris> the icon is an essential part of the protocol, meh
01:20:53 <tabris> do you suffer them for skype too, EionRobb?
01:21:19 <EionRobb> nah, skype and microsoft have been fairly sane over the years
01:22:04 <matthew-M> are WA still issuing takedowns ooi?
01:22:07 <tabris> how about that new facebook thing, is that guy having problems?
01:23:01 * tabris top secret plan to embed skype, facebook and whatsapp into pidgin++
01:23:15 <EionRobb> nah, no issues with the newer facebook plugin
01:23:31 <EionRobb> they never had issues with the old facebook plugin though either.... they tried to hire me from it :)
01:23:32 <clokep> I don't really see how it's reasonable to issue takedown notices. :-S
01:23:50 <EionRobb> clokep: malicious use of dmca to claim copyright
01:23:52 <clokep> I need to look at integrating Facebook.
01:24:10 <clokep> EionRobb: Yeah...I understand that part. :p People actually taking stuff down seems silly.
01:24:28 <tabris> cool, do you think they have sanitized the protocols?both skypeweb and facebook are json-based, right?
01:24:43 <clokep> "sanitized"?
01:24:50 <clokep> "kind of" to both of those.
01:25:00 <clokep> Facebook uses both JSON and some other serialization.
01:25:01 <EionRobb> the facebook plugin for pidgin isn't json, its thrift (and some json)
01:25:09 <clokep> Yeah, Thrift. That's it.
01:25:17 <EionRobb> but if you go via messenger.com then it'd be just json
01:25:34 <EionRobb> I was going to do that if we didn't get a student for it this year for gsoc :)
01:26:14 <tabris> is that what the zap guy says, their copyright claims are invalid? maybe he is backed by a good lawyer
01:27:12 <EionRobb> they can't claim copyright for code they didn't right
01:27:19 <EionRobb> s/right$/write/
01:27:41 <tabris> thrift, this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK8mJJJvaes
01:28:08 <EionRobb> tabris: that's what it feels like, yes :)
01:28:14 <tabris> haha
01:29:27 <tabris> EionRobb: but they can claim copyright for the protocol implementation, that kind of silly thing, no?
01:30:11 <EionRobb> nope, not if they didn't write it
01:30:21 <EionRobb> copyright doesn't protect against "ideas"
01:30:25 <clokep> Implementations and documentation are.
01:30:49 <EionRobb> if someone took the whatsappcode and jammed it into pidgin then they'd have a legit reason for a takedown
01:31:12 <EionRobb> but the dmca even offers specific safe harbor for people reverse engineering for interoperability
01:31:23 <EionRobb> in my country its part of our copyright law too, since we don't follow the dmca
01:31:26 <EionRobb> but blah
01:32:04 <tabris> well but they can allege patent violation no?
01:32:37 <clokep> These protocols don't do anything patentable.
01:32:45 <clokep> Generally.
01:32:50 <EionRobb> that's different again, and dmca doesn't cover patent infringement
01:33:01 <tabris> in my country law is interpreted according to the amount of $$$ involved
01:34:22 <clokep> Really their best defense is to be a PITA and change the protocol randomly.
01:34:26 <clokep> Ala the 90s with AIM/MSN. :P
01:34:29 <tabris> clokep: good to know, even though I thought you could register patent for the protocol you invented
01:34:54 <tabris> clokep: heh
01:35:11 <clokep> Facebook Chat doesn't do anything exciting. it's just JSON/Thrifts blobs sent over MQTT...
01:35:16 <clokep> Oh wait, those are all open protocols. :p
01:35:19 <clokep> Nothing to patent there.
01:36:28 <EionRobb> tabris: lemme know if there's anything that you need changed in any of my plugins to get them to work with pidgin++
01:37:04 <tabris> EionRobb: good to know, thanks
01:38:00 <tabris> except for the license? lol
01:38:13 <EionRobb> gplv3+?
01:38:22 <tabris> gplv2+
01:40:07 <EionRobb> gplv4? :P
01:40:12 <tabris> I can think of two things that would be nice for skypeweb at least, one is a unix makefile integrated within pidgin (like the other default protocols)
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01:44:02 <tabris> I mean, adapt these makefiles for the skypeweb folder http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~renatosilva/pidgin++/skypeweb/view/head:/source/libpurple/protocols/jabber/
01:44:28 <tabris> except for Makefile.mingw which is ok
01:45:59 <tabris> second thing is nothing much, but maybe a better way to integrate with upstream than this... http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~renatosilva/pidgin++/skypeweb/view/head:/build/updateskype.sh
01:48:54 <tabris> EionRobb: actually not sure if you can change license anymore, too many copyright holders :(
01:50:20 <tabris> but gpl2+ would allow for the pidgin license to be unique and avoid this: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~renatosilva/pidgin++/skypeweb/view/head:/source/COPYING
02:01:22 <clokep> Licenses suck.
02:02:09 <tabris> gpl specially
02:03:00 <tabris> I started to change my stuff from gpl to bsd/mit, for precaution
02:16:11 <EionRobb> I like how it was called an "infection" :)
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05:03:20 <instant-buildbot> build #3014 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [3build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/3014
05:10:02 <instant-buildbot> build #545 of linux64-nightly-default is complete: Failure [4failed shell_6]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux64-nightly-default/builds/545
05:14:28 <instant-buildbot> build #1843 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [3build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/1843
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07:09:39 <nhnt11> Are we going to publish that blog post?
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08:13:49 <nhnt11> Ah
08:13:59 <nhnt11> FYI I can no longer connect to facebook chat.
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