#instantbird log on 09 01 2015

All times are UTC.

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00:59:44 <clokep> EionRobb: Wat?
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02:02:36 <EionRobb> clokep: related to something aleth said earlier :)
02:14:03 <instant-buildbot> build #1516 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Failure [4failed compile]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/1516
02:14:03 <instant-buildbot> build #426 of linux64-nightly-default is complete: Failure [4failed compile]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux64-nightly-default/builds/426
02:37:53 <instant-buildbot> build #2871 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Failure [4failed hg_1]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/2871
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08:29:51 <satdav> flo-retina: I am trying to get amo to host the instantbird addons 
08:36:11 <flo-retina> satdav: that would be cool. Do you have reasons to believe it could be accepted?
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08:38:25 <satdav> flo-retina: as sea monkey is on it 
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09:09:09 <aleth> Looks like enabling tooltool didn't work at all
09:09:15 * aleth backs it out again
09:10:44 <flo-retina> did you try it for Instantbird?
09:10:50 <aleth> Yup.
09:11:59 <aleth> No idea what exactly runs on the TB build slaves.
09:13:35 <aleth> A more current buildbot I suppose...
09:14:52 <flo-retina> probably a completely different buildbot configuration
09:15:02 <flo-retina> "more recent" or not probably doesn't make much of a difference
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09:47:09 <flo-retina> hmm, facebook still has this silly behavior where all the contacts appear for a split second and disappear right after it :-S
09:57:46 <flo-retina> when I open the buddy icon panel in the blist, the "take picture" item is disabled
09:57:55 <flo-retina> the error console shows:
09:57:55 <flo-retina> Timestamp: 01/09/2015 11:56:00
09:57:55 <flo-retina> Error: NS_ERROR_UNEXPECTED: 
09:57:55 <flo-retina> Source File: chrome://instantbird/content/blist.js
09:57:55 <flo-retina> Line: 707
09:58:08 <flo-retina> that line is     navigator.mozGetUserMediaDevices({video: true},
09:58:51 <aleth> is it un-prefixed now?
09:59:43 <flo-retina> that needs tests so desperately :(
09:59:49 <instantbot> New Instantbird - Contacts window bug 1200550 filed by florian@queze.net.
09:59:50 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1200550 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, The "Take picture…" item of the buddy icon panel is disabled
10:00:00 <flo-retina> aleth: I don't know
10:00:34 <flo-retina> Timestamp: 01/09/2015 11:56:24
10:00:34 <flo-retina> Error: TypeError: this.webNav is undefined
10:00:34 <flo-retina> Source File: chrome://global/content/viewSource.js
10:00:34 <flo-retina> Line: 582
10:01:10 <flo-retina> I thought we had fixed "Error: Maximum size for WATCH list exceeded (NaN). Source File: resource://gre/modules/ircWatchMonitor.jsm Line: 186 Source Code: prpl-irc: ircWATCH.commands[512]" ?
10:01:20 <flo-retina> I should stop looking at the error console, it's depressing :-/
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10:05:38 <aleth> I don't think you ever filed a bug for that
10:05:43 <aleth> You should file that fb bug too...
10:06:15 <aleth> (I thought that WATCH thing was fixed too, but we probably just discussed the fix)
10:25:50 <flo-retina> so now we have to run ./mach mercurial-setup once a month?
10:25:51 <flo-retina> :(
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12:47:11 <flo-retina> i've just read the add-on related post
12:47:23 <flo-retina> so my thoughts are:
12:47:28 <flo-retina> 1. It's a pretty well written post.
12:47:49 <flo-retina> 2. 'deprecate' about xul/xpcom is very vague, and I think purposefully so, because most likely nobody knows how that will look like.
12:47:52 <flo-retina> clokep_work: ^
12:48:20 <clokep_work> flo-retina: On m.d.platform there was now talk of deprecating ctypes too.
12:48:34 <flo-retina> why?
12:48:43 <flo-retina> has there been talk of deprecating the earth too?
12:48:45 <clokep_work> Fuck if I know what they're thinking.
12:49:28 <clokep_work> "I'm going to contradict Ehsan here: ctypes is a powerful-but-dangerous API and I wouldn't recommend it unless you have no other choice. We may decide to stop supporting it in the future."
12:49:32 <clokep_work> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.platform/XPhyLaFdH3o
12:49:59 <flo-retina> ahah, I was going to say "that sounds like bsmedberg" ;)
12:50:01 <Fallen> Well, with ctypes you can do everything. They probably want to limit things so that you can't circumvent most everything from an addon.
12:50:12 <Fallen> I understand why, I just don't agree it is a good idea
12:50:35 <clokep_work> If you're going to limit *everything*,w hy have an add-on system?
12:51:07 <flo-retina> hmm, who wrote https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebExtensions ?
12:51:20 <flo-retina> I'd like to know where "We probably will never support detectLanguage. " is coming fro
12:51:21 <flo-retina> m
12:51:38 <clokep_work> I don't know who "Wmccloskey" is. :)
12:51:38 <flo-retina> clokep_work: apparently managers want to be able to run Chrome add-ons on their firefox ;)
12:51:46 <flo-retina> ah, it's bill who wrote that?
12:51:54 <clokep_work> I find all this incredibly demotivating. :-\
12:52:09 <clokep_work> Him and wbamberg wrote most of the revisions on the page.
12:52:12 <clokep_work> I didn't check that part. :)
12:52:23 <Fallen> that is probably billm
12:53:02 <Fallen> I'm very unhappy about web extensions too, I've just given up on pretending that we have much of a choice
12:53:19 <flo-retina> is there a blame feature on wiki?
12:53:31 <Fallen> When Servo hits the Browser, I think we will all be royally f***d
12:54:12 <flo-retina> Fallen: I'm not really unhappy about webextensions
12:54:39 <flo-retina> Fallen: I think we need that, and having add-ons that are compatible between browsers with a mostly-standardized API is nice.
12:55:02 <flo-retina> Fallen: the part I'm still upset about is the claim that having webextensions is a reason to deprecate XUL/XPCOM/all the stuff that makes Mozilla different.
12:55:26 <Fallen> ok, I accept that
12:56:00 <flo-retina> Fallen: I observed that the blog post said "deprecated" and never said "removed". The plans to 'kill xul' that were discussed earlier were significantly stronger worded, so maybe my/our feedback got heard
12:59:05 <aleth> flo-retina: I think the argument put forward was the other way round, that killing XUL/XPCOM means having to deprecate all the addons
12:59:20 <Fallen> I think their wish is to kill xul, but they know it will take a while before they can actually break it
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12:59:40 <Fallen> so we still have a lot of time to rewrite things into html :-)
13:00:12 <flo-retina> Fallen: I think you are making a mistake if you assume "they" is a consistent group of people with aligned thoughts
13:00:25 <flo-retina> I was in the "kill xul planning" meeting. It was a mess.
13:01:00 <flo-retina> Fallen: I think the current emergency is to open a stable path forward for e10s-compatible add-ons.
13:01:18 <flo-retina> add-ons has been for a while the thing that made e10s unshippable
13:01:35 <aleth> Fallen: I just think announcing the deprecation of all addons before it's even clear what will, eventually, replace XUL was a premature move. On the other hand, in a way it is actually "moving in the open" I suppose
13:01:43 <flo-retina> and requiring every add-on author to care about registering content scripts and passing messages around between processes for the most simple things is unsustainable
13:02:48 <Fallen> flo-retina: nah, I am aware that not everyone thinks the same way there. For me "they" is that large grey mass of people that are voicing their oppinions on newsgroups :-)
13:03:04 <clokep_work> flo-retina: It's an *incredible* failure of Mozilla management that this is an /emergency/. They've been working on e10s for *years*.
13:03:22 <aleth> flo-retina: The problem is deprecating everything without providing help for the transition isn't a stable path forward either.
13:04:07 <flo-retina> clokep_work: "They've been working on e10s for *years*." isn't really true.
13:04:39 <Fallen> aleth: Yeah, I think its better to announce this early than to work on it and then fail on transitioning folks. Maybe they would also like input from addon authors for their new API early this time, so that they don't have the angry mob on them (as much).
13:04:48 <flo-retina> clokep_work: e10s received active work for a year or two, then was put on hold (not sure, but I think that was because b2g needed all resources it could steal), and very active work on e10s with a decision of actually shipping it started less than a year ago.
13:05:24 <aleth> Fallen: I think if the end of that blog post had been written more like the followup (as a request for input from addon authors) it would have gone down a lot better
13:06:06 <clokep_work> I'm also torn in that the blog post seemed really long (so I suspect a lot of people didn't read it all), but at the same time they did a good job of providing known information.
13:06:17 <clokep_work> flo-retina: It still shouldn't be an emergency.
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13:07:19 <flo-retina> clokep_work: I didn't disagree on that part; I'm not defending management and constantly shifting priorities.
13:07:44 <clokep_work> I didn't realize e10s was stopped at one point.
13:07:51 <clokep_work> I thought it was just going *very* slowly, but continuously.
13:07:58 <clokep_work> (I.e. like having 1 - 2 people work on it.)
13:11:30 <flo-retina> clokep_work: yeah, one or two people working 10% of their time on it, and 130% of their time on something else ;)
13:12:45 <clokep_work> Right.
13:13:18 <clokep_work> On an unrelated note, am I supposed to be excited about this Thimble thing?
13:13:28 <clokep_work> I read a post on it (and some tweets) and have *no* idea what it is.
13:13:30 <aleth> I don't think you're the target audience ;)
13:13:32 <clokep_work> Minus that it's 'educational'.
13:13:42 <aleth> Whether the target audience will ever hear about it is another matter
13:15:12 <flo-retina> clokep_work: I was going to ask you what it is ;)
13:15:43 <clokep_work> Actually, phrases I have some far that describe it: "forked", "code editor", "educational"
13:16:54 * clokep_work shrugs. :)
13:17:01 <flo-retina> " There's a new Thimble! Soon we'll be shutting down this version and migrating over existing projects. Try the new Thimble " is promising ;)
13:24:55 <clokep_work> It's tough to remember that sometimes people don't know WTF you're talking about. :-D
13:25:22 <aleth> :D
13:28:23 <clokep_work> flo-retina, aleth: So...what's our current state of building things?
13:28:25 <flo-retina> https://etherpad.mozilla.org/ib-wiki
13:28:29 <clokep_work> What's our hope?
13:28:30 <flo-retina> clokep_work: all busted.
13:29:32 <aleth> OSX should be fairly easy to fix (just reclone the repo and add a network cable?)
13:29:46 <aleth> Linux needs that tooltool gcc
13:29:53 <aleth> Windows is awol as usual
13:30:16 <aleth> Still, it's not much worse than TB builds ;)
13:37:30 <flo-retina> not the best comparison point I'm afraid :(
13:39:00 <aleth> It could be worse - afaik everything still builds locally ;)
13:42:45 <flo-retina> aleth: have we tried building on Windows?
13:42:49 <flo-retina> ;)
13:48:38 <aleth> I said "afaik" ;)
13:49:33 <clokep_work> I have not tried in a while, no.
13:50:51 <flo-retina> ok, new plan to never be busted: stop trying to build ;)
13:51:02 <clokep_work> :'(
13:54:22 <clokep_work> So what on https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Protocols_reference is not useful? :)
13:54:29 <clokep_work> (Are the examples useful?)
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13:56:36 <aleth> clokep_work: How about replacing it with roughly what I put in my comment on the Matrix bug, with links?
13:56:54 <elwisp> Just discovered instantbird
13:57:03 <aleth> (I could do that if you like)
13:57:22 <clokep_work> aleth: Nah I'm modifying the page already.
13:57:24 <flo-retina> clokep_work: why are you not just migrating the page as is?
13:57:25 <clokep_work> elwisp: Welcome.
13:57:31 <elwisp> came here to say great work! Love that i can use facebook again in a client
13:57:32 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Because I don't like that page. :-D
13:57:56 <flo-retina> clokep_work: you can still edit it after the fact to make it please you, right?
13:58:00 <clokep_work> Yep.
13:58:01 <flo-retina> I was saying this mostly for the sake of keeping history
13:58:07 <clokep_work> Ah.
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14:05:05 * clokep_work finished.
14:05:09 <clokep_work> elwisp_: Thanks! :)
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14:08:28 <elwisp> :)
14:21:31 <clokep_work> elwisp: Let us know if there are issues.
14:21:50 <clokep_work> FWIW Facebook doesn't 'officially' support the way we connect anymore, so I can't promise it'll continue working, but...so far so good!
14:22:28 <aleth> flo-retina was going to file some sort of bug about it earlier ;)
14:22:50 <flo-retina> z
14:22:53 <flo-retina> ooops
14:23:02 <flo-retina> aleth: clokep told me it was wontfix last time I mentioned it ;)
14:23:24 <aleth> oh, if he knows what's causing it...
14:23:55 <clokep_work> flo-retina, aleth: Contextr?
14:23:58 <clokep_work> What's wontfix?
14:24:02 <flo-retina> that was just because it was facebook ;)
14:24:16 <flo-retina> clokep_work: all the facebook online contacts disappearing after a split second on connect
14:24:20 <flo-retina> when we get an error when downloading the vcard
14:24:26 <clokep_work> Oh...
14:24:29 <clokep_work> Yeah I don't know. :)
14:24:35 <aleth> flo-retina: file it and cc abdelrhman ;)
14:24:45 <flo-retina> is he using facebook?
14:25:34 <aleth> no idea, but it's XMPP and if it's a regression...
14:29:33 <flo-retina> ah, I didn't think it could be a regression
14:29:35 <flo-retina> maybe it is
14:30:27 <aleth> idk
14:32:42 <instantbot> New Chat Core - XMPP bug 1200633 filed by florian@queze.net.
14:32:44 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1200633 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Receiving a 404 cancel iq error stanza when fetching a contact's vcard makes the contact disappear
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15:32:56 <clokep_work> Have I mentioned recently that I *really* *really* *really* hate ZNC?
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15:59:39 <elwisp> seems like groupchats on facebook dosent work
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16:07:40 <clokep_work> elwisp: It's not supported.
16:07:49 <clokep_work> The information isn't provided by Facebook.
16:07:51 <clokep_work> Nothing we can do.
16:12:18 <elwisp> clokep_work: there is a plugin for pidgin that does it
16:12:50 <elwisp> https://github.com/jgeboski/purple-facebook if you would like to have a look at it
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16:27:05 <clokep_work> elwisp: They use an entirely different way of connecting than we do.
16:27:15 <clokep_work> I also don't believe that is considered 'stable' yet.
16:37:22 <aleth> clokep_work: what do you mean by "using the 464 numeric to send this"?
16:37:46 <aleth> 464 is ERR_PASSWDMISMATCH
16:38:10 <clokep_work> Yes.
16:38:20 <clokep_work> aleth: Did you look at the diff I linked to?
16:38:29 <clokep_work> Then we have http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/chat/protocols/irc/ircNonStandard.jsm#172
16:39:03 <aleth> znc :-S
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16:39:41 <clokep_work> Right, so we check the source of it there...but it makes me a little squirly.
16:39:47 <clokep_work> That's why we were checking the messages.
16:40:01 <aleth> Yeah.
16:41:42 <aleth> It's not great either way. I suppose we might as well send PASS in response to 464 in that case, but then we have to keep track we only do it once
16:42:31 <aleth> Alternatively change this here to a .startsWith with only the first sentence https://dxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/chat/protocols/irc/ircNonStandard.jsm#55
16:42:35 <aleth> That's probably simpler.
16:43:46 <clokep_work> aleth: Just the "*** You need to send your password." part?
16:43:48 <clokep_work> I can do that right now.
16:43:50 <clokep_work> Good idea
16:43:51 <aleth> Right.
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16:48:30 <clokep_work> Is "mach xpcshell-test chat/protocols/irc" supposed to be a valid command? :-S
16:49:06 <aleth> I think so
16:50:36 <aleth> wfm
16:54:21 <clokep_work> I probably need to clobber or something.
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17:20:15 <bretagne22> Bonjour
17:21:33 <clokep_work> Hello.
17:23:08 <bretagne22> for the compilation extentions et file .zip renane extentions? 
17:24:01 <clokep_work> (If French is your native language, flo-retina might be able to help you.)
17:24:04 <clokep_work> (Or maybe aleth :))
17:24:19 <clokep_work> (I can help you too! But only in English. :()
17:24:35 <clokep_work> Extensions (which are .xpi files) are just renamed zips, yes.
17:26:17 <bretagne22> ;)
17:26:24 <bretagne22> :-D
17:33:07 <clokep_work> aleth: Looks like it might be running my xpcshell tests now?
17:33:09 <clokep_work> Yep. :)
17:33:15 <clokep_work> I had to rebuild for some reason.
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19:09:06 <clokep_work> 10:25:50 <flo-retina> so now we have to run ./mach mercurial-setup once a month?
19:09:10 <clokep_work> I agree, ridiculously annoying.
19:09:48 <flo-retina> clokep_work: I think that's the stuff made by the team in charge of increasing developer productivity ;)
19:10:09 <clokep_work> I mostly find it annoying because it chokes on my config. :-
19:10:10 <clokep_work> :)
19:17:28 <aleth> I guess it's to make using mozreview more bearable?
19:17:56 <aleth> clokep_work: heh, you should probably file a bug, gps is good with that kind of thing.
19:18:12 <clokep_work> aleth: I filed a bug and they said they wouldn't fixed it.
19:18:28 <clokep_work> I fixed it enough to give myself a sane error message so I don't go "WTF is happening" each time.
19:18:38 <clokep_work> bug 1047592
19:18:40 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1047592 nor, --, mozilla34, clokep, RESO FIXED, mercurial-setup cannot read config with %include
19:19:41 <aleth> Oh, that's tricky.
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