#instantbird log on 02 05 2015

All times are UTC.

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00:15:50 <aleth> flo-retina: webrtc question
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00:17:23 <aleth> Call yourself via webrtc, and after a bit there's an "ICE failed" error which suggests looking at about:webrtc. But opening that page fails because it depends on React (!). Does that mean Fx and hence we now have to package React?
00:18:35 <aleth> bah, it's looking for chrome://browser/content/loop/shared/libs/react-0.12.2.js
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00:25:11 <clokep_work> WTF. (o_O)
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00:25:53 <aleth> flo-retina: ^^
00:33:46 <nhnt11> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1033841
00:33:48 <instantbot> Bug 1033841 nor, P1, mozilla33, nperriault, RESO FIXED, land Reactified Loop panel
00:39:02 <clokep_work> nhnt11, aleth: But...that's all in browser. :-S
00:39:06 <clokep_work> Why would something we're using try to use it?
00:39:31 <aleth> The about:webrtc page includes React via the URI I gave.
00:39:47 <aleth> It doesn't display anything without it as it's all reactified JS.
00:42:09 <clokep_work> bug 1118255
00:42:11 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1118255 blo, --, mozilla37, nperriault, RESO FIXED, The about:webrtc page is broken
00:42:52 <clokep_work> aleth: I'll file the bug.
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01:49:48 <instant-buildbot> build #1296 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [3build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/1296
01:50:11 <clokep> \o/
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04:38:35 <instant-buildbot> build #207 of linux64-nightly-default is complete: Failure [4failed compile]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux64-nightly-default/builds/207
04:43:12 <instant-buildbot> build #1625 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [3build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/1625
05:00:21 <instant-buildbot> build #1297 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [3build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/1297
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05:40:39 <instant-buildbot> build #2525 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [3build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/2525
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08:38:33 * flo-retina is very upset by bug 971110
08:38:35 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=971110 nor, P3, mozilla35, rgauthier, RESO FIXED, Prettify about:webrtc
08:41:01 <flo-retina> uh, that 'test' also looks fantastic: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=8545240&action=diff
08:41:08 <flo-retina> ok(!!doc.querySelector("#body"), "Main element exists, page looks ok.");
08:41:18 <flo-retina> sure, if there's a <body>, the page must be displaying what it should...
08:41:54 <flo-retina> "We need to know if the about:webrtc page is broken. For now we rely on the loop's React version. Because React is updated some time to time, the about:webrtc page can break." bah...
08:42:00 <flo-retina> (looking at bug 1082549)
08:42:02 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1082549 nor, --, ---, nperriault, NEW, Test the about:webrtc page
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11:33:46 <clokep> flo-retina: You see the conversation about OTR yesterday? Seems like there's a guy you need to meet at their conference thing.
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11:37:03 <flo-retina> clokep: nope
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11:45:03 <clokep> flo-retina: Well someone interested in doing UI design work for the OTR stuff.
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12:56:40 <bernard> Hi anyone about>
12:56:40 <bernard> ?
12:57:20 <bernard> A quicky: https://github.com/arlolra/ctypes-otr#dev-env say run "sudo apt-get install libgcrypt11-dev libotr-dev" but aptitude is telling me libotr2-dev has replaced libotr-dev. 
12:57:29 <bernard> I'm guessing this is correct.
12:57:46 <aleth> Sounds plausible - try it and see?
12:58:19 <bernard> Yep, I just didn't want someone to say: NO DON'T CHOOSE *THAT* ONE!
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13:11:34 <bernard> Can I sign up for an xmpp account from within instantbird?
13:11:44 <bernard> It seems not…but I could be missing something...
13:11:50 <clokep_work> bernard: No.
13:12:00 <clokep_work> We don't currently support any UI to do that.
13:12:09 <clokep_work> You have to sign up using a website.
13:12:21 <bernard> OK. Is that something that could be added? I'd happily work on that too
13:12:31 <aleth> Yes please!
13:12:40 <aleth> It could be added, there's a XEP for that.
13:12:43 <bernard> OK. 
13:12:44 <bernard> XEP?
13:12:56 <aleth> A specification for how to implement it.
13:13:30 <bernard> OK. It is a big hurdle for users to get over…particularly if they are new…
13:14:10 <aleth> Yes, you're absolutely right.
13:14:16 <aleth> Bug 955317
13:14:18 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=955317 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Support XEP-0077 (In-Band Registration/Password Change)
13:14:58 <bernard> argh…ok, does anyone have an xmpp server that allows me to create an account from a web interface?
13:15:12 <bernard> ccc.de doesn't seem to have theirs online any more..
13:15:49 <bernard> ah xmpp.jp
13:18:49 <bernard> Can anyone give me an account to add to my test account?
13:19:52 <clokep_work> Not sure if they federate with GTalk.
13:19:57 <clokep_work> But clokep @ gmail is mine.
13:20:22 <bernard> Hmm, gtalk has cut off federation, no?
13:20:45 <aleth> Try it and see?
13:20:46 <clokep_work> Not entirely.
13:20:52 <clokep_work> aleth and I have talked over it.
13:20:57 <clokep_work> With...swiss-jabber?
13:21:38 <bernard> Really? Hmm, all my gtalk contacts have disappeared....
13:21:55 <aleth> It's probably a bit like offline messages, you can't rely on it.
13:25:36 * clokep_work shrugs.
13:39:31 * flo-retina didn't know there was a design devroom at FOSDEM :-S
13:43:51 <flo-retina> bernard: FYI, I pay very little attention to stuff on github. The things we are actively working on are all in bugzilla.
13:43:53 <flo-retina> Hi btw :).
13:44:01 <clokep_work> aleth: Sorry I didn't get to your reviews last night.
13:44:06 <clokep_work> I won't tonight either unfortunately. :-\
13:46:17 <bernard> flo-retina: Hi! Yes there was indeedy! You missed lots of interesting discussions and talks ;)
13:47:11 <bernard> flo-retina: About bugzilla. OK good. Can you give me a link?  If there is no design tag, it'd be helpful to add one to design/ui/usability/user research related things.
13:47:39 <bernard> flo-retina: I went lookigng for you with Dr Whaxx and Lunar said "he was just here"…
13:47:45 <flo-retina> I was mostly talking about code and code review
13:47:57 <bernard> Oh..right.
13:48:05 <flo-retina> bugzilla many not be the best tool for work-in-progress UX mockups
13:48:14 <bernard> So where would be the best place to look for UX related work.
13:48:18 * bernard nods
13:48:25 <flo-retina> (although I really appreciate having final or mostly final UX mockups attached to bugs so that they don't disappear :))
13:48:32 <bernard> I was mentioning pixelapse.com last night
13:48:41 <bernard> It's essentially github for UX work.
13:48:48 <flo-retina> whatever you are most comfortable with should do I guess
13:51:08 <bernard> OK good. So github is best place to look for design work?
13:51:51 <aleth> I think so far the email thread is as far as it went.
13:51:58 <aleth> Why not use pixelapse if you like it?
13:52:15 <aleth> Github is hardly better than bugzilla for UX mockups.
14:03:19 <bernard> aleth: OK, sounds good. The difficulty can be "where do we put design work".
14:03:43 <bernard> flo-retina: "(although I really appreciate having final or mostly final UX mockups attached to bugs so that they don't disappear )" —> yes understood.
14:09:16 <clokep_work> bernard: I think, as we talked about yesterday, it's more important that it's public than exactly what you do it in.
14:09:29 <clokep_work> Once we get to doing coding of patches, etc. we'll want that in Bugzilla + the mockups, as flo said. :)
14:09:41 <bernard> flo-retina: Is github the best place to look for design related work for instantbird?
14:10:25 <clokep_work> No.
14:10:34 <clokep_work> bernard: We *do not* use Github. At all.
14:11:42 <bernard> Oh..sorry…getting mixed up. You mentioned bugzilla is for code related tickets. Is there any place for design related tickets?
14:12:01 <flo-retina> tickets (we call them "bugs") all go in bugzilla.
14:12:10 <flo-retina> you can put UX bugs there too
14:12:18 <flo-retina> that's what's done for Firefox
14:12:30 <aleth> bernard: Probably the best approach is to file a bugzilla bug (we also use them for feature requests etc) and then link to whatever external tools you need.
14:12:44 <bernard> Ah OK, so buzilla it is then. And I can put links off to designs elsewhere?
14:12:57 <bernard> aleth: cool.
14:13:20 <aleth> I don't think IB has had separate design bugs in the past (plenty of UX discussion though ;) ).
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14:14:33 <clokep_work> bernard: Links are OK, but uploading attachments is nice when you want things to last forever...
14:14:40 <clokep_work> If you want to do quick iterations, I'd suggest discussions over IRC.
14:15:00 <flo-retina> etherpad is also useful
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14:15:12 <bernard> clokep_work: OK good to know.
14:15:34 <bernard> so, this is all instandbird bugs: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/page.cgi?id=productdashboard.html&tab=&product=Instantbird&bug_status=all right?
14:16:39 <aleth> bernard: also the Chat Core for the backend
14:18:00 <clokep_work> (The "Chat Core" code is shared with Thunderbird.)
14:18:15 <bernard> OK, got that too. 
14:18:38 <bernard> And so the OTR related work is carried out in github?
14:19:40 <aleth> arlo has the code for his prototyping add-on there, but eventually that code should end up in bugzilla bugs and then land.
14:19:44 <flo-retina> arlora's work happened on github up to the point where he wanted us to review it.
14:19:47 <aleth> Some parts have already landed.
14:20:26 <aleth> We're making this all sound way more complicated than it is I think ;)
14:20:37 <flo-retina> indeed!
14:21:43 <bernard> hehe, yes just a big ;)
14:22:01 <bernard> But it's useful for me to understand how things are happening so I know where to fit in.
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14:32:18 * clokep_work is pretty sure he has always used pen and paper for mockups. :-D
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14:34:33 <bernard> clokep_work: yes definitely. But it can be hard for devs to understand the intentions of paper prototypes especially  when the communications are remote.
14:35:01 <bernard> I always work with paper and pen when I have my developer colleagues near, or can access them daily.
14:36:41 <clokep_work> bernard: I was just making a statement, not suggesting you do it.
14:37:09 <bernard> Ah, well I agree with your statement!
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14:37:56 * clokep_work waits patiently for something for him to consume. :)
14:37:57 <flo-retina> bernard: if pen and paper is how you are the most comfortable looking at stuff, that's fine. Just try to have a scanner or digital camera so that you can upload an image of the mockup every once in a while :)
14:38:54 <bernard> flo-retina: Yep, thats where I'll start. If needs I'll do basic code for interactions…
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17:36:56 <instantbot> New Chat Core - IRC bug 1130001 filed by aleth@instantbird.org.
17:36:57 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1130001 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Unhandled IRC message 470: Channel redirect
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20:40:35 <Guido> Hello, I'm just wondering if there are any updates for the messanger and how I can get them? I never get a message about an installed update.
20:42:04 <aleth> Guido: You could try our current nightly builds if you like. Otherwise we hope to release 1.6 soon, after some infrastructure issues are resolved
20:43:42 <Guido> aleth: i have 1.5. so there is just noo update jet, if i understand you right.
20:44:09 <aleth> That's right.
20:44:37 <aleth> If you install the nightly version you get updates all the time, but of course with the occasional chance things might break...
20:45:13 <Guido> okee, thanks. maybe very rare updates or youst no messgae about updating. both are fine - just want the curent version
20:45:32 <aleth> OK :-)
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20:47:29 <Guido> aleth: so maybe from 1.6 on there can be a function which informs the user that it is installing a new releas or so.
20:48:21 <aleth> Guido: You should already receive an update notification when 1.6 is released 
20:48:32 <clokep_work> You *will* receive one.
20:48:37 <clokep_work> That's been built into Instantbird forever.
20:49:38 <Guido> great
20:49:38 <Guido> I use it for some years, but never got a message. if I manualy check I just got the message that there are no new updates. I toled instandbird to check automaticly.
20:51:59 <clokep_work> Instantbird 1.5 was released about 15 months ago.
20:52:06 <clokep_work> Instantbird 1.4 was release.d...8 months before that?
20:53:08 <clokep_work> Eek it was actually about a year and a half before that.
20:53:15 <clokep_work> May 20th, 2013.
20:55:50 <Guido> okee, apparently on the new laptop i started with 1.5. my old laptop seams to have updated from 1.3 to 1.5 without a message
20:57:07 <Guido> (the old laptop is from 2010 or a bit older, but i put linux on it later.)
21:00:23 <clokep_work> Hm....well I guess if you restart at the right time it might not notify you that it is updating.
21:00:29 <clokep_work> But it's all meant to update automatically.
21:01:34 * clokep_work shrugs.
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21:39:15 <Guido> maybe
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23:52:14 <flo-retina> I'm pretty sure we could do friendlier error messages: http://queze.net/goinfre/twitter-over-capacity.png :D
23:53:16 <aleth> oh look, en-JSON ;)
23:57:23 <flo-retina> yep