All times are UTC.
00:02:36 * nhnt11 has addressed most of the indexed logs review comments except for the log set stuff. 00:10:50 * nhnt11 can't find his syntax error :( 00:32:36 --> BWMerlin has joined #instantbird 00:54:17 --> rosonline has joined #instantbird 00:57:51 --> iamjayakumars has joined #instantbird 01:01:21 <-- Mook_as has quit (Quit: Mook_as) 01:03:06 <-- iamjayakumars has quit (Quit: ) 01:08:21 --> LiquidRain has joined #instantbird 01:32:18 --> mconley has joined #instantbird 01:42:54 <-- rosonline has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.5 -- http://www.instantbird.com) 01:47:34 <-- LiquidRain has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 01:57:04 <-- clokep has quit (Ping timeout) 02:47:25 <-- mconley has quit (Input/output error) 03:15:55 --> mconley has joined #instantbird 03:33:31 <-- mconley has quit (Input/output error) 04:11:57 --> Mook has joined #instantbird 05:00:51 --> jb has joined #instantbird 05:05:25 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout) 05:17:17 --> gerard-majax_ has joined #instantbird 05:29:52 <-- EionRobb has quit (Quit: Leaving.) 05:43:53 <-- flo-retina has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.6a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com) 06:01:17 <-- Mook has quit (Quit: Mook) 06:43:49 --> jb has joined #instantbird 06:47:16 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout) 06:59:02 <-- gerard-majax_ has quit (Ping timeout) 07:32:23 --> mpmc has joined #instantbird 07:49:32 --> arlolra has joined #instantbird 07:49:39 <-- arlolra has left #instantbird () 07:55:22 * Fallen|away is now known as Fallen 08:00:18 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird 08:14:50 --> mayanktg-ph has joined #instantbird 08:49:26 --> chrisccoulson has joined #instantbird 08:55:45 --> Armada has joined #instantbird 09:03:37 * Fallen is now known as Fallen|away 09:39:42 * Fallen|away is now known as Fallen 09:40:53 --> gerard-majax_ has joined #instantbird 10:09:55 --> arlolra has joined #instantbird 10:13:35 --> flo-retina has joined #instantbird 10:13:35 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo-retina flo-retina 10:17:22 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 10:17:22 * ChanServ sets mode +o clokep 10:32:51 --> mayanktg has joined #instantbird 10:36:24 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Ping timeout) 10:36:29 --> GeekShadow has joined #instantbird 10:38:30 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.5 -- http://www.instantbird.com) 10:42:20 <-- nhnt11 has quit (Ping timeout) 10:42:23 --> nhnt11 has joined #instantbird 10:43:48 <nhnt11> flo-retina: "There are plenty of other things that this file isn't (it's not a flying pig either, right?)" That's kinda harsh, I wasn't even against changing the name, I just didn't like using the present participle in "continuingSession". :( 10:59:45 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Ping timeout) 11:02:55 --> GeekShadow has joined #instantbird 11:05:07 <-- EionRobb has quit (Quit: Leaving.) 11:12:23 <sawrubh> clokep: re that adding to both convIM and convChat comment, well XMPPConversation and XMPPMUCConversation inherit from them respectively, so if we add it to both I think it should enable us to call this method from both normal chats and MUC's which is good? 11:13:09 <sawrubh> clokep: re explaining `let iqArg =` line by line, do you want it on BugZilla or in the code? 11:14:11 <sawrubh> clokep: re using nsIFile we can't do that since when we send the information to UI (in onIQStanza when we've received the SI offer) we don't have a nsIFile, we only have the attributes in that si element 11:14:13 <flo-retina> nhnt11: sorry if that comment hurt you. I wanted to explain why using a negative in an API wasn't a good idea in general. 11:14:19 <-- mayanktg has quit (Ping timeout) 11:16:55 --> mayanktg has joined #instantbird 11:17:02 <sawrubh> clokep: re indenting of the two functions I copied, http://pastebin.instantbird.com/745995 is what I have now? is this how you wanted it? (btw now I'm not able to clearly explain via comments in b64ToUint6, what each ternary operator handles (like A-Z, a-z etc)) 11:29:49 * Fallen is now known as Fallen|away 11:32:27 --> Rym has joined #instantbird 11:32:51 <-- mayanktg-ph has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 11:39:13 * Fallen|away is now known as Fallen 11:44:24 --> clokep_work has joined #instantbird 11:44:25 * ChanServ sets mode +o clokep_work 11:44:38 <-- Rym has quit (Ping timeout) 11:45:26 --> Rym has joined #instantbird 11:50:21 <-- BWMerlin has quit (Quit: BWMerlin) 11:51:01 <clokep_work> sawrubh: I think you missed the point of some of my comments: do we WANT to be able to send files to both MUCs and chats? Is that expected? 11:51:14 <clokep_work> When I ask for things to be clarified it generally means "Add more comments". 11:51:48 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Do we usually use American or British spellings? Do we care? (I.e. in comments.) 11:52:24 <clokep_work> sawrubh: I don't think it's clear what that fileName and fileSize mean then. 11:52:31 <clokep_work> Are they the information sent from the other client? 11:52:36 <clokep_work> Are they us sending a file? 11:52:38 <clokep_work> What are they?! 11:53:21 * Fallen is now known as Fallen|away 11:53:28 <clokep_work> sawrubh: You can reformat those functions without losing all the comments. 11:53:34 <clokep_work> The current formatting just sucks. 11:53:45 <clokep_work> Comments don't line up with code. 11:53:49 <clokep_work> The indentation is wrong. 11:53:56 <clokep_work> And operators are at the start of lines instead of at the end of lines. 11:56:17 <instantbot> email@example.com changed the Resolution on bug 1032870 from --- to WONTFIX. 11:56:19 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1032870 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO WONTFIX, Notifications for new message in group chat is not working 11:59:17 <flo-retina> clokep_work: american 12:05:21 <-- Rym has quit (Ping timeout) 12:07:30 --> Rym has joined #instantbird 12:08:27 <clokep_work> Thanks. 12:08:44 <sawrubh> clokep_work: re that MUC thing, I guess it only makes sense for sending a person to person, not a person to MUC, so I'll only keep convIM then 12:09:22 * sawrubh checks the spec 12:09:39 <sawrubh> it might be a cool thing to be able to send a file to everyone on a MUC but that might be spamming 12:09:48 <clokep_work> What is "the spec"? We're not talking about just XMPP here. 12:09:58 <flo-retina> clokep_work: btw, we have rediscussed most of the interfaces we showed yesterday, and changed them significantly this morning. Hopefully it's much more simple now. 12:10:22 <clokep_work> flo-retina: For OTR? I assume? Do you need more info about CTCP garbage? 12:10:30 <clokep_work> And I use "garbage" purposefully here. :p 12:10:49 <flo-retina> garbage seems the right word for non printable characters :) 12:11:01 <flo-retina> yes, for OTR. 12:11:13 <flo-retina> I think we've decided to encrypt before CTCP happens 12:11:14 <sawrubh> clokep_work: ah I just realized we're talking multiple protocols here :) this just makes it....<thinking>...a bit confusing 12:11:34 <flo-retina> and hope that CTCP happening on the encrypted message will be equivalent to the identity function 12:11:47 <sawrubh> clokep_work: let's just be conservative and do this from a person to another person for now 12:11:59 <clokep_work> sawrubh: That was going to be my suggestion. ;) 12:12:12 <clokep_work> flo-retina: So then we unencrypt and THEN do CTCP parsing on receive? 12:14:18 <flo-retina> nah 12:14:35 <flo-retina> on receive, we do CTCP parsing (which hopefully will do absolutely nothing), and then unencrypt 12:14:54 <flo-retina> if CTCP encoding/parsing interferes with encrypted OTR messages, we'll need to be more careful 12:16:09 <-- Rym has quit (Ping timeout) 12:16:53 <clokep_work> flo-retina: I don't think that will work. 12:17:11 <clokep_work> How would that work for e.g. action (/me) messages? 12:17:18 <-- arlolra has quit (Ping timeout) 12:17:39 <clokep_work> sawrubh: Should we go through the rest of your comment? 12:17:49 <sawrubh> yeah 12:17:58 <flo-retina> clokep_work: shouldn't we leave the /me in plain text, and encrypt the rest of the line? 12:18:11 <clokep_work> flo-retina: That's not how it works on IRC at all. 12:18:22 <clokep_work> It encodes it into CTCP as `ACTION <message>`. 12:18:25 <sawrubh> clokep_work: btw I read about Promised and just realized what I was doing was *so* wrong :) 12:18:27 <clokep_work> (Where ` is really \001) 12:18:31 <sawrubh> *Promises 12:18:42 <clokep_work> sawrubh: Excellent! So you understand it should be chained instead of nested? 12:19:24 <sawrubh> yes, I have a doubt though, in chained error handling how do Promises where the error came from? I mean in catch and try we match the error argument, I guess we'll have to do something similar in this too 12:19:35 <sawrubh> +know 12:19:42 <clokep_work> I'm afraid I don't understand the question. :-\ 12:19:49 <sawrubh> let me rephrase 12:19:53 <clokep_work> You add both a handle and an error handler. 12:20:09 <clokep_work> If one promises throws an error it goes to it's error handler and then continues to get passed through all error handlers I /think/. 12:20:15 <clokep_work> nhnt11 probably has a good handle on this. ;) 12:20:22 <clokep_work> (And aleth's is probably better than mine.) 12:20:34 <clokep_work> I'm much more familiar with Python's Promises API than JS'. :( 12:21:01 <-- mayanktg has quit (Ping timeout) 12:22:14 --> arlolra has joined #instantbird 12:22:19 <sawrubh> so in http://pastebin.instantbird.com/746011 suppose we land up in the last `then` (that is the error handler) how do we know that we came from Point 1 or Point 2? 12:22:34 <sawrubh> (I copied this code just to be quick, it's just a reference) 12:23:02 --> mayanktg has joined #instantbird 12:23:07 <sawrubh> nhnt11: ^ 12:23:20 <clokep_work> sawrubh: Does it matter? 12:23:28 <clokep_work> It highly depends on the situation. 12:23:43 <clokep_work> If you cared to handle them different I'd imagine you would have added an error handler with the first then call. 12:23:52 <sawrubh> it might if we want to throw much more specific errors (instead of just Oops something went wrong) 12:24:23 <sawrubh> I was right now throwing different error messages to the UI based on where it failed 12:24:50 <sawrubh> although on second thought I don't think the user cares much for whether it failed while writing to the file or opening the file 12:24:59 <clokep_work> Probably not. 12:25:02 <clokep_work> Did you see my answer anyway? 12:25:04 <sawrubh> although it might be helpful for devs (like us to debug) 12:25:10 <clokep_work> You can provide an error handler at each step if you'd like. 12:25:25 <sawrubh> aha 12:25:34 <sawrubh> that is so obvious 12:27:25 <-- flo-retina has quit (Ping timeout) 12:27:31 <clokep_work> :) 12:33:45 --> mconley has joined #instantbird 12:35:07 <-- mayanktg has quit (Ping timeout) 12:36:13 --> mayanktg has joined #instantbird 12:36:34 <clokep_work> sawrubh: "About displaying this to the UI like the Download Panel?" yes. 12:36:45 <clokep_work> sawrubh: So American spellings please, as flo clarified earlier. 12:36:49 <sawrubh> yes 12:37:14 <clokep_work> sawrubh: "But the backend code calls this, if I move it to UI (conversation.xml say) then it will become unnecessarily complicated." I don't see how this would make the code any more complicated. 12:37:35 <clokep_work> sawrubh: "Are you talking about the fileOffer object? It's a prplIFileTransfer object." Yes, why is it not using your XMPPFileTransfer object? 12:37:45 <clokep_work> sawrubh: "I didn't know ClassInfo could be used to pass interfaces. I'll look how to use ClassInfo here." I don't underestand this. 12:37:56 <-- mayanktg has quit (Ping timeout) 12:38:08 <clokep_work> sawrubh: "When you want to end the transfer (either in between or when transfer is complete) you send a close element in an IQ stanza, that's what I meant." OK, so expand that comment covering when that code is used. 12:39:28 --> mayanktg has joined #instantbird 12:44:12 <sawrubh> ok, so if I were to move this to conversation.xml, then all the consumers in xmpp.jsm and xmpp-file-transfer.jsm would call the notifyObserver function with the argument as an object with the enumerator (like Ci.prplIFileTransfer.ERROR_SEND_WRITE) and some arguments (in case their error string isn't static and is generated using formatStringFromName) 12:44:12 <sawrubh> pertaining to the error they want to send right? 12:44:20 <-- clokep_work has quit (Ping timeout) 12:46:12 <-- Even has quit (Input/output error) 12:46:16 --> Even has joined #instantbird 12:46:16 * ChanServ sets mode +o Even 12:49:44 <mayanktg> I'm able to do the hashing of a string and then encoding it to Base64, but the result | MGFlYmQ1YmYzNzcwZGQzYTVjYzM2ODU5NDM5NmM1MDQxNDZlODMwNQ== | is not similar to the expect outcome | MqW4BkR6wf/8U5hSPBX1mG9c84M= | ... 12:50:37 <nhnt11> sawrubh: Still need me to look at that? 12:50:42 --> clokep_work has joined #instantbird 12:50:42 * ChanServ sets mode +o clokep_work 12:51:03 <nhnt11> I think it looks fine but I have no context so... 12:51:27 <-- mayanktg has quit (Ping timeout) 12:51:43 --> mayanktg has joined #instantbird 12:51:43 <sawrubh> nhnt11: the question was suppose we land up in the last `then` (that is the error handler) how do we know that we came from Point 1 or Point 2? 12:51:49 <mayanktg> Line 43 onwards the hashing and encoding is done. I used the example from https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Tech/XPCOM/Reference/Interface/nsICryptoHash#Computing_the_Hash_of_a_String which explains how to hash a string :-o 12:52:16 <mayanktg> nhnt11: Ok 12:52:33 <nhnt11> sawrubh: Ah 12:52:36 <nhnt11> One second 12:52:58 <-- mconley has quit (Ping timeout) 12:53:02 --> mconley__ has joined #instantbird 12:53:48 <nhnt11> sawrubh: In your code, the error always comes from Point 1 12:54:57 <sawrubh> nhnt11: err wrong code :) just assume there is another similar thing like Point 1 which can throw an error 12:55:10 <nhnt11> sawrubh: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/746033 12:55:20 <sawrubh> nhnt11: I mean suppose point 2 had some code which could throw too 12:55:44 <nhnt11> sawrubh: Look at teh pastebin 12:55:46 <-- mayanktg has quit (Ping timeout) 12:55:50 <nhnt11> You have to catch any error in Point 2 again 12:55:57 <sawrubh> yeah so that's what clokep_work suggested :) 12:56:04 <sawrubh> coolio 12:56:43 <sawrubh> basically we have to handle error after every point we want to and if we want to handle it generically we could just have this one error handler in the end 12:57:57 <nhnt11> Yeah. 12:58:36 <nhnt11> sawrubh: You could simplify this with a Task, instead of chaining so many `then`s 13:00:04 --> jb has joined #instantbird 13:01:52 --> mayanktg has joined #instantbird 13:03:43 * sawrubh reads up about Tasks 13:03:53 <sawrubh> is that something Fx specific? 13:04:15 <nhnt11> sawrubh: I don't think anything is really "Fx specific" ;) 13:08:32 <-- mconley__ has quit (Input/output error) 13:08:34 <-- arlolra has quit (Ping timeout) 13:10:11 <clokep_work> sawrubh: But you'd pass the prplITransfer object. 13:10:15 <clokep_work> Which has the error state on it. 13:16:18 --> flo-retina has joined #instantbird 13:16:18 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo-retina flo-retina 13:17:01 <flo-retina> clokep_work: I realized just after typing that line about sending "/me" in plain text that it didn't make any sense :-/. 13:17:28 --> arlolra has joined #instantbird 13:17:40 <flo-retina> clokep_work: wouldn't we want to send `ACTION <encrypted message>` ? 13:17:48 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Yes. 13:18:25 <flo-retina> clokep_work: is ctcpFormatToHTML handling that `ACTION thing? 13:18:37 <clokep_work> flo-retina: That's unrelated. 13:18:40 <clokep_work> IIRC. 13:18:42 <flo-retina> (it's that function I was talking about when I said we should just ignore ctcp for now) 13:19:08 <flo-retina> ok, so then I wasn't all wrong; I just typed something silly, but wasn't too confused internally :) 13:21:53 <clokep_work> OK. I'm not entirely convinced. ;) 13:23:20 <flo-retina> clokep_work: do you have suggestions for stuff I should lxr to better understand how /me & `ACTION are handled? 13:23:38 <flo-retina> ("action" gives " Too many hits, displaying first 1000" :() 13:24:47 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Hmm....so /me is handled in ircActions.jsm. 13:24:52 <clokep_work> ircCommands.jsm. 13:26:43 <flo-retina> looking, thanks 13:29:19 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Sorry, I have a demo in a bit. 13:30:03 <flo-retina> arlolra: http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/chat/protocols/irc/ircCommands.jsm#75 13:34:29 --> rosonline has joined #instantbird 13:38:39 <flo-retina> so if I type "/help notice" I get "notice <target> <message>: Send a notice to a user or channel." 13:39:10 <flo-retina> then when I type "/notice #instantbird test", I get in my error console: Error: ERR_NOTEXTTOSEND: No text to send for PRIVMSG. 13:39:11 <flo-retina> Source File: resource://gre/modules/ircBase.jsm Line: 1127 13:39:21 <flo-retina> am I using this wrong? 13:39:28 <flo-retina> or is the "or channel" part of the help message wrong? 13:47:32 <instantbot> New Chat Core - IRC bug 1034061 filed by firstname.lastname@example.org. 13:47:33 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1034061 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Long /me messages aren't split 13:50:46 <mayanktg> flo-retina: Do you know how to generate hash data with binary output? I'm already setting "finish(false)" which returns value as binary data. Is my hash generation correct as per http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0115.html#ver-gen Point Number 9 ? Here is my function which generates ver string and then encodes it http://pastebin.instantbird.com/746044 (Line 43 onwards). 13:51:37 <flo-retina> why do you need a binary output? 13:52:49 <mayanktg> Context: http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/today#m164. Its written in the rule of ver attr generation that "The hashed data MUST be generated with binary output ...". 13:54:21 <mayanktg> If I use the commandline to generate the string as given here http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0115.html#nt-idp1624784 I'm getting the desired string in the terminal. So I guess there's something wrong with the way I'm generating the hash :-| 13:56:21 <flo-retina> mayanktg: why are you converting to hexadecimal? (all the toHexString stuff) 13:58:52 --> mconley has joined #instantbird 13:59:29 <mayanktg> flo-retina: I shouldn't do that? Sorry I didn't understand whether I should have converted it or not :( 14:00:02 <flo-retina> mayanktg: remove lines 56 to 58 in that pastebin 14:00:49 * Fallen|away is now known as Fallen 14:02:37 <mayanktg> flo-retina: And then, where is the hashed string? Let me see... 14:04:09 <mayanktg> Understood 14:04:09 <mayanktg> :D 14:04:12 <mayanktg> Got it :) 14:04:26 <mayanktg> flo-retina++ :) 14:06:26 <clokep_work> flo-retina: I doubt you have permission to do notices. 14:06:32 <clokep_work> But that command might be broken, yes. 14:06:56 <flo-retina> clokep_work: ah, I thought notices were just like private messages + get attention 14:07:11 <flo-retina> I thought there was a different command for _global_ notices 14:07:51 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Oh wait. 14:07:57 <clokep_work> Yeah, that should send a NOTICE instead of a PRIVMSG> 14:08:01 <clokep_work> Soooooo.... 14:09:01 <clokep_work> Looks like that command needs to be updated, yes. :-\ 14:14:35 * Fallen is now known as Fallen|away 14:23:31 <-- mayanktg has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.6a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com) 14:25:37 --> mayanktg-ph has joined #instantbird 14:45:46 --> iamjayakumars has joined #instantbird 15:18:43 --> Rym has joined #instantbird 15:19:52 --> mayanktg has joined #instantbird 15:20:00 <-- mayanktg-ph has quit (Quit: ) 15:24:08 <-- Rym has quit (Ping timeout) 15:24:59 <-- rosonline has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.5 -- http://www.instantbird.com) 15:25:00 <Gizmokid2005> hey flo-retina :) Get pidgin logs support into IB yet? :D 15:25:21 --> Rym has joined #instantbird 15:25:22 <flo-retina> Gizmokid2005: nhnt11 is our log experts these days ;) 15:25:49 <clokep_work> Gizmokid2005: What does that question mean? :-S 15:26:03 <Gizmokid2005> OOhh, so I should bother nhnt11 then? :D 15:26:05 <flo-retina> I'm not too sure what pigdin log supporting you are hoping for though 15:26:14 <Gizmokid2005> It's been a while I realize. 15:26:20 <flo-retina> if you just drop pidgin .txt log files in the folder, things should work 15:26:33 <Gizmokid2005> the ability to read/write the same format/location :) 15:26:37 <Gizmokid2005> which, if that's there <3 15:26:48 <Gizmokid2005> I am using .txt, I have been for a while now. 15:27:17 <flo-retina> that's easy, just take all your pidgin logs, drop them in the instantbird profile, and forget pidgin existed 15:27:28 <Gizmokid2005> but I want to use the same folders! :D 15:27:37 <flo-retina> no you don't 15:27:43 <Gizmokid2005> but...I do :( 15:28:00 <flo-retina> (you'll cry once your logs are corrupted because of 2 different applications poking at the same folder at once ;)) 15:28:10 <Gizmokid2005> no no, I won't run them simultaneously 15:28:14 <Gizmokid2005> it's just to keep them in the same location 15:28:18 <Gizmokid2005> I'm not quite /that/ crazy. 15:28:52 * Fallen|away is now known as Fallen 15:29:00 <Gizmokid2005> I may work in a MS certified partner supporting a C# application with a SQL Server backend, but I'm really not *that* crazy......yet 15:30:29 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout) 15:31:16 <clokep_work> Gizmokid2005: If pidgin lets you customize the log folder, just point it to Instantbirds, or symlink them. 15:31:24 <clokep_work> But that's definitely unsupported. 15:31:27 <clokep_work> :P 15:31:29 <Gizmokid2005> Hmmm, are symlinks portable? 15:31:37 <clokep_work> You want it portable too!? 15:31:39 <Gizmokid2005> I've never actually tried... 15:31:40 <clokep_work> Come on... 15:31:44 <Gizmokid2005> Hey, I live in portableapps! 15:32:02 <Gizmokid2005> Firefox, Thunderbird, KVIrc, PIdgin (Instantbird), PuTTY, KiTTY, etc etc 15:32:14 <clokep_work> I never understood the point of those. :) But to each his own. 15:32:16 <Gizmokid2005> but of course I do clokep_work :) 15:32:34 <Gizmokid2005> For me, it's the ability to keep everything I'm doing on something I can take to pretty much any windows PC and still have all my stuff 15:32:35 <clokep_work> Well in that case see if you can point Pidgin's logs to Instantbird's profile folder. 15:32:38 <Gizmokid2005> mainly between home and work. 15:32:39 <clokep_work> Or just use Pidgin. ;) 15:32:51 <clokep_work> Oops. 15:32:53 <Gizmokid2005> but pidgin makes me sad :( 15:32:54 <clokep_work> Or just use Instantbird. ;) 15:32:59 <clokep_work> Why can't you JUST use Instantbird then? 15:33:01 <Gizmokid2005> not all the time, but... 15:33:01 <clokep_work> What's missing? 15:33:06 <Gizmokid2005> I don't know yet! 15:33:25 <Gizmokid2005> I think the last time I tried instantbird was right after the 1.0 release. 15:33:34 <Gizmokid2005> I stopped but for the life of me I don't remember why. 15:33:45 <Gizmokid2005> (I'm getting old) 15:33:46 <clokep_work> Alright. 15:33:57 <clokep_work> So we don't write txt logs, but I think the option to do it is still there. 15:34:08 <clokep_work> But it's a silly log format since it's very lossy. 15:34:18 <clokep_work> SO you could try IB for a while, see if it meets your needs and then not worry about this. 15:34:22 <Gizmokid2005> at the same time it's not though, because who cares about formatting? 15:34:22 <flo-retina> Gizmokid2005: what about you just try Instantbird for a month? 15:34:31 <flo-retina> Gizmokid2005: and then decide to move all your pidgin logs, and forget pidgin? 15:34:34 <Gizmokid2005> I'm planning on it flo-retina, that's why I asked :) 15:34:39 <Gizmokid2005> I just want to not lose any logs in the meantime 15:34:39 <flo-retina> (or move the logs made by Ib to the pidgin folder) 15:35:24 <flo-retina> using txt logs doesn't break just formatting 15:35:33 <flo-retina> it will break any future indexing that's currently being developed 15:35:37 <flo-retina> ie. it will also break search 15:36:25 <Gizmokid2005> Hmm, I've always just regarded search as scanning the files (for the given user in piding) for the string given 15:36:29 <Gizmokid2005> but that makes sense. 15:36:43 <Gizmokid2005> how are IB's stored? 15:36:58 <clokep_work> JSON(-ish) files. 15:37:25 <flo-retina> "scanning the files" is a stupidly slow search algorithm 15:37:30 <flo-retina> and yes, that's what Pidgin does 15:37:34 <flo-retina> which we don't want to do 15:37:47 <Gizmokid2005> I won't argue that! 15:38:44 <Gizmokid2005> where do the themes get stored? 15:39:02 <-- mayanktg has quit (Ping timeout) 15:39:31 <flo-retina> they are just add-ons 15:39:41 <flo-retina> so probably in the extensions/ folder in the profile 15:40:22 <Gizmokid2005> including the default? 15:40:57 <clokep_work> The default is done the same way as Firefox/Thunderbird. 15:41:09 --> mayanktg has joined #instantbird 15:41:58 <flo-retina> Gizmokid2005: why does that matter? 15:42:02 <Gizmokid2005> Hmm...I may have to do some more digging. I like the default but would like to make a few minor tweaks to it. 15:42:10 <Gizmokid2005> That's one of my major irritants with pidgin. 15:42:33 <Gizmokid2005> I like to be able to tweak things and we all know how awful pidgin "styles" are 15:42:56 * flo-retina isn't sure what "things" are exactly 15:43:14 <Gizmokid2005> just what/how things are displayed 15:43:23 <Gizmokid2005> timestamps for instance 15:44:25 <clokep_work> That's a message style, not a theme. 15:44:37 * flo-retina had a whole blog post about timestamp display :-D 15:45:02 <flo-retina> Gizmokid2005: http://blog.instantbird.org/2011/06/introducing-time-bubbles/ 15:45:07 <Gizmokid2005> Right clokep_work, but in pidgin they're themes 15:45:24 <clokep_work> Gizmokid2005: Sure, I'm just clarifying so when you ask US questions about it we're all on the same page. 15:45:29 <Gizmokid2005> right 15:45:34 <Gizmokid2005> I did say themes too here 15:45:37 <Gizmokid2005> $#^*( 15:45:46 <Gizmokid2005> I knew they were message styles...*sigh* 15:46:50 <Gizmokid2005> So I do have to apologize and backtrack. I have been /meaning/ message styles... 15:47:14 <clokep_work> I think the answer is mostly the same though. ;) 15:47:17 <clokep_work> They're extensions. 15:47:28 <Gizmokid2005> but the default one doesn't exist in extensions, right? 15:48:22 <clokep_work> Gizmokid2005: What are you /really/ trying to ask? 15:48:27 <clokep_work> Are you trying to ask if you can easily modify it? 15:48:33 --> qheaden has joined #instantbird 15:48:34 <clokep_work> Like get the source and tweak things? 15:48:37 <clokep_work> It's all in the source tree. 15:48:44 <qheaden> Hello everyone. 15:49:21 <Gizmokid2005> clokep_work: really just modify the message style that exists...I know they're basically adium styles which I've edited before. If I just need to download a style as an extension and modify that, I can manage,. 15:52:31 <Gizmokid2005> clokep_work: I'm looking for something a bit more like this: https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/312 15:52:45 <-- gerard-majax_ has quit (Ping timeout) 15:53:09 <clokep_work> Gizmokid2005: First of all there's something pretty similar to that in Instantbird already. 15:53:15 <clokep_work> Second of all, just download that and modify it then? 15:53:36 <Gizmokid2005> WEll that's the plan now, but I was trying to see if the original was in a format already I could just tweak it 15:53:52 <Gizmokid2005> I know the default is really close. 15:53:55 <clokep_work> I don't think we package those as extensions. 15:54:12 <Gizmokid2005> which is fair. That's what I was trying to check :) Make sure I wasn't being blind and missing something simple. 15:54:58 <-- qheaden has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 15:55:07 --> qheaden has joined #instantbird 15:55:21 <-- iamjayakumars has quit (Client exited) 15:56:43 <-- nhnt11 has quit (Ping timeout) 15:57:59 --> nhnt11 has joined #instantbird 15:59:50 --> iamjayakumars has joined #instantbird 16:10:46 <-- iamjayakumars has quit (Client exited) 16:13:34 <qheaden> Wow, the tree is still closed? :-O 16:13:56 <flo-retina> yeah... :( 16:14:03 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Can we get a plain text description of how that API is to be used? :) 16:14:06 <clokep_work> arlolra: ^ 16:14:23 <flo-retina> clokep_work: I wrote some comments in the imConversation.js file 16:14:29 <flo-retina> these are quite descriptive 16:14:34 <flo-retina> but more comments in the interface are definitely needed 16:14:40 <flo-retina> I think arlolra will add some in the next patch 16:14:48 <flo-retina> but would still be nice to have some general feedback 16:14:56 <-- flo-retina has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.6a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com) 16:14:59 <-- arlolra has quit (Quit: arlolra) 16:17:35 <Gizmokid2005> so last quick question....can I at least force instantbird to log in .txt for now? 16:19:10 * nhnt11 is sad that Gizmokid2005 wants txt logs 16:19:20 <Gizmokid2005> nhnt11: I'm sad too, but only temporarily 16:19:26 <Gizmokid2005> the reasoning for better logs is not lost on me! 16:19:29 <nhnt11> Gizmokid2005: Type /about config 16:19:40 <nhnt11> And change purple.logging.format to txt 16:19:41 <Gizmokid2005> which bit? 16:19:42 <Gizmokid2005> :) 16:19:44 <nhnt11> (it's json by default) 16:20:13 --> iamjayakumars has joined #instantbird 16:20:14 <Gizmokid2005> I'll gladly go back, but I'm going to give IB another trial run since it's been quite a while since my last one. If all goes well I'll just switch over 16:20:33 --> jb has joined #instantbird 16:20:45 <-- jb has quit (Input/output error) 16:21:16 <nhnt11> Sure 16:21:31 <Gizmokid2005> I've been following IB since 0.1 days so... 16:21:59 <Gizmokid2005> OTR support? 16:22:01 --> jb has joined #instantbird 16:22:01 <nhnt11> Gizmokid2005: Let me know if you succeed in changing the format to txt using the /about config thing I just told you 16:22:10 <nhnt11> OTR is in progress. 16:22:16 <Gizmokid2005> I changed it, but won't know until I use it. 16:22:21 <Gizmokid2005> ah...I bet that's what stopped me before. 16:22:29 <Gizmokid2005> I have quite a few contacts I use OTR with :( 16:22:43 <nhnt11> Gizmokid2005: I believe you'll need to restart Instantbird for it to take effect. 16:22:51 <Gizmokid2005> which would make sense :) 16:26:01 <Gizmokid2005> Hmm, that's the other. Is there a way to replay history into the current message window on open? 16:28:53 <nhnt11> Gizmokid2005: That's part of my Google Summer of Code project. 16:29:27 <nhnt11> (implementing chat history/scrollback in the conversation window) 16:29:29 <Gizmokid2005> woohoo! That's one of my most used plugins of pidgin. I rely on that all the time. 16:29:33 <Gizmokid2005> <3 16:29:57 <nhnt11> Stay tuned over the next couple of months then :) 16:30:56 <Gizmokid2005> By all means, put me on your "he'll test this" radar :D 16:33:42 --> Mook_as has joined #instantbird 16:35:47 <Gizmokid2005> can I change which area of the conversation window the tabs show up? Say left instead of top? 16:36:22 <nhnt11> clokep_work has an addon for that I think^ 16:39:07 <Gizmokid2005> https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/244 <-- thar she blow! 16:55:23 <clokep_work> flo-retina: So that's all well and good, but it's hard to give feedback without understanding how those different Message interfaces interact. 16:56:49 <Gizmokid2005> flo is gone :( 16:57:21 <sawrubh> writing Promise code gives you a good exercise but it looks beautiful once done : http://pastebin.instantbird.com/746105 16:58:35 <-- mayanktg has quit (Client exited) 16:59:00 --> mayanktg has joined #instantbird 17:06:59 <-- iamjayakumars has quit (Ping timeout) 17:16:01 <-- Rym has quit (Ping timeout) 17:16:36 --> Rym has joined #instantbird 17:26:59 <-- mayanktg has quit (Ping timeout) 17:28:09 --> mayanktg has joined #instantbird 17:30:26 <Gizmokid2005> Huh. So if I have 2 gtalk accounts and have the same buddy on both, I don't actually get to see both buddies, or choose which account to use to message them from? 17:30:49 <-- mayanktg has quit (Ping timeout) 17:35:37 --> mayanktg has joined #instantbird 17:41:03 <nhnt11> Gizmokid2005: you should be able to see both 17:41:24 <Gizmokid2005> that's what I thought, but it's certainly not doing that. I disconnect one of the accounts and I can watch the single contact change name 17:41:34 <Gizmokid2005> and when I reconnect the other one, the name retains but there's not a new contact 17:41:46 <Gizmokid2005> (or even a second merged into the one I see) 17:52:46 <clokep_work> sawrubh: Hah, yeah it can hurt the brain a bit. :) 17:53:06 <clokep_work> Gizmokid2005: They should up as the same contact, yes. You can use the drop down to choose which account you're using though. 17:55:44 <Gizmokid2005> clokep_work: which dropdown? 17:56:04 <clokep_work> aleth: Why did this build: https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Thunderbird-Trunk&rev=a3e98776154e 17:56:11 <clokep_work> Gizmokid2005: Top right of the conversation is the protocol icon. 17:56:25 <Gizmokid2005> yep 17:56:26 <clokep_work> But maybe it only lets you change the remote buddy not the local buddy. 17:56:30 <Gizmokid2005> but I don't see a dropdown. 17:56:38 <-- mayanktg has quit (Ping timeout) 17:56:44 <Gizmokid2005> and I still definitely only see a single contact even when expanded in the contact list. 17:57:03 --> mayanktg has joined #instantbird 17:57:16 <clokep_work> Yeah hm...guess it doesn't allow that then. 17:57:25 <Gizmokid2005> :( 17:57:25 <clokep_work> I'm pretty sure I filed a bug about this issue a longggggggg time ago. 17:57:31 <clokep_work> But no one has ever come up with a good UI for it. 17:57:49 <clokep_work> I think the quesetion florian asked me was "Why do you have the same person in multiple accounts?" 17:58:04 <Gizmokid2005> I mean, at bare minimum both contacts should show in the contact list. 17:58:12 <Gizmokid2005> because they're, for all purposes, separate contacts. 17:58:40 <Gizmokid2005> It's like IB auto-merges them 18:00:59 <-- Rym has quit (Ping timeout) 18:06:13 --> Rym has joined #instantbird 18:09:32 <clokep_work> Gizmokid2005: They're NOT separate contacts. They are the SAME contact. 18:09:41 <clokep_work> It IS auto-merging them! That's exactly what it's doing. 18:10:34 <Gizmokid2005> The end result is the same contact, sure. I won't disagree, the person is the same. However the method of getting them there is not. They should be listed as two contacts (even if they're automerged), but in any case both ways of contacting them should be listed. 18:12:12 <clokep_work> I agree you should be able to contact them from both accounts. 18:12:17 <clokep_work> I disagree they should be separate contacts. 18:12:32 <Gizmokid2005> The main reason I disagree with that, is what if I want to remove them from one account? 18:12:36 <Gizmokid2005> You've just removed my ability to do that. 18:13:02 <Gizmokid2005> in the cases it was inadvertent you've removed my ability as a user to make it "right" 18:13:15 <-- mayanktg has quit (Ping timeout) 18:13:42 <Gizmokid2005> I would say that every from->to combination should be a separate contact, where automerging the to is just fine (and probably desired actually). 18:13:53 <Gizmokid2005> I know that's how I would expect it. 18:15:20 --> mayanktg has joined #instantbird 18:15:59 * Fallen is now known as Fallen|away 18:16:53 <mayanktg> The entity discovery can now store the entity information (for eg whether video, audio call is supported or not) mapped to the ver attribute received for a session. :) 18:16:53 <mayanktg> I'm trying to figure out how exactly _Jitsi_ sends the video and audio <feature/> with service discovery info because its not sending them http://pastebin.instantbird.com/746130 alongwith other features. 18:17:29 <clokep_work> mayanktg: Cool. :) 18:18:18 <mayanktg> clokep_work: By session you meant an Ib session (until the user closes the Ib). Right? 18:20:06 <mayanktg> wait...if you don't remember the context..it was regarding storing the entity information in the "local disk" cache or for a particular session so that it can be used later. You suggested the latter part. 18:20:51 <clokep_work> mayanktg: Yes. 18:21:06 <clokep_work> Gizmokid2005: I don't really understand what you're saying. 18:21:33 <Gizmokid2005> clokep_work: the way IB works right now, I have the same contact from two different gtalk accounts, how do I remove it from *one* of them? 18:21:46 <clokep_work> I understand that. 18:21:54 <clokep_work> I don't understand your "proposed" solution. 18:21:59 <Gizmokid2005> Ah. 18:22:12 <Gizmokid2005> for the purpose of the contact list, create 2 contacts. 18:22:21 <Gizmokid2005> and then auto-merge them so if I expand the contact I can see them both 18:22:34 <Gizmokid2005> but I still have the visibility to see both as well as message either 18:22:48 <Gizmokid2005> (a dropdown in the message window to select the source account would be super idea as well) 18:29:23 <clokep_work> Gizmokid2005: That sounds confusing. 18:29:30 <Gizmokid2005> which part? 18:29:33 <clokep_work> They're the same contact, I wouldn't want them twice in my buddy list. 18:29:38 <Gizmokid2005> You wouldn't 18:29:41 <Gizmokid2005> you'd have them auto-merged 18:29:46 <Gizmokid2005> but there would still be two. 18:29:54 <Gizmokid2005> I"ve never seen a client *ever* treat them as the same contact before 18:29:59 <Gizmokid2005> I was actually confused at first. 18:30:04 <Gizmokid2005> and thought one account was missing 18:30:18 <clokep_work> But they're separate. 18:30:21 <clokep_work> What if someone splits them up. 18:30:26 <Gizmokid2005> then they have two? 18:30:32 <Gizmokid2005> You still have the tooltip to see why there's two 18:30:43 <Gizmokid2005> some may *want* them split. 18:30:54 <Gizmokid2005> I would prefer them merged, but I want to be able to see both. 18:31:54 <clokep_work> But they're the same. 18:31:58 <clokep_work> I don't understand. 18:32:51 <Gizmokid2005> but they're not. There's still 2 instances of them. Just because the user 'screwed up' and added them to two accounts doesn't mean you should just remove that visibility and the option to set both. 18:33:40 <clokep_work> Please don't accuse of doing this on purpose btw, that's not clear yet. 18:33:56 <Gizmokid2005> I"m not making any accusations 18:34:13 <Gizmokid2005> simply using the current behavior as my base of knowledge for how "you"/IB is working. 18:34:25 <Gizmokid2005> It seems you'd have to go out of your way to merge the contacts automatically 18:37:56 <clokep_work> We don't. 18:38:03 <clokep_work> It's done automatically in the backend, there's no "special" code for it. 18:38:11 <clokep_work> They ahve the same ID, thus they are one thing. 18:38:33 <Gizmokid2005> What does the ID encapsulate then? 18:39:00 * nhnt11 is really curious how this works 18:39:27 <clokep_work> I don't know. 18:39:47 <clokep_work> It's probably something like prpl_Id + protocol identifier 18:40:21 <nhnt11> clokep_work: I have you on gtalk, right? Can I add you to another account? 18:40:37 <clokep_work> nhnt11: Sure. I'm not signed in right now. ;) 18:40:43 <nhnt11> alright 18:40:44 <clokep_work> Although I am now. 18:43:29 --> flo-retina has joined #instantbird 18:43:29 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo-retina flo-retina 18:44:42 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout) 18:45:54 <-- mayanktg has quit (Ping timeout) 18:47:22 --> mayanktg has joined #instantbird 18:55:02 <nhnt11> flo-retina: How would you feel about discarding "no messages for 20 minutes" condition for splitting log files? I was just thinking, it doesn't really help us, does it? 18:55:23 <nhnt11> The 1k message limit already takes care of size, and the midnight thing takes care of long-spanning conversations 18:56:17 <flo-retina> if you remove it, you would be more likely to split in the middle of a conversation the user is actually having with someone, wouldn't you? 18:56:27 <flo-retina> or are you saying that 20 minutes is too short? 18:57:10 <flo-retina> nhnt11: what I'm really trying to get is: if I talk to you in the morning, then I talk to you from the office, then I talk to you from home in the evening... in my head that's 3 different sessions; and I would like the logged sessions to match 18:57:25 <flo-retina> I'm not sure the 20 minutes thing is a good heuristic to match that 18:57:27 <nhnt11> flo-retina: So what you really want is to start a new session in that case. 18:57:37 <nhnt11> And not just a new log file 18:57:54 <flo-retina> nhnt11: maybe 18:57:54 <nhnt11> I've been avoiding messing with the way we define a "session" in the split files patch 18:57:59 <Gizmokid2005> Could you just track the message window? 18:58:02 <Gizmokid2005> and split when it's closed? 18:58:12 <flo-retina> Gizmokid2005: that's the current awful, pidgin inherited behavior 18:59:12 <Gizmokid2005> do you do any other splitting besides that, midnight and 1k messages? 18:59:23 <nhnt11> Gizmokid2005: At the moment we don't do any splitting. 18:59:29 <nhnt11> There's a WIP that aims to change that 18:59:37 <Gizmokid2005> The only splitting I would really suggest is midnight 18:59:37 <nhnt11> bug 1025522 18:59:41 <-- mayanktg has quit (Ping timeout) 18:59:41 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1025522 nor, --, ---, nhnt11, ASSI, Split log files to prevent them from growing too large 19:00:01 <Gizmokid2005> I wouldn't really split any further than that. 19:01:02 <Gizmokid2005> even with my comment, I agree with flo-retina. The pidgin behavior is pretty nasty, especially when you accidentally close the window. 19:02:09 --> mayanktg has joined #instantbird 19:03:08 <Gizmokid2005> but reading the bug...I can understand the not splitting at midnight, there are a lot of people who live in that timeframe... 19:03:12 <Gizmokid2005> interesting scenario 19:03:22 <flo-retina> Gizmokid2005: if you want your suggestions to be considered seriously, it would be useful to explain first what problem you are trying to fix or what use case you are trying to better support. 19:03:36 <Gizmokid2005> which one flo-retina? 19:03:46 <flo-retina> all of them :) 19:03:56 <flo-retina> that's how we discuss things here 19:04:07 <flo-retina> we say first what the problem is, then we brainstorm solutions. Not the other way. 19:04:29 <Gizmokid2005> well clearly. But something sparked that comment, I'm trying to figure out what. 19:04:46 <-- mayanktg has quit (Ping timeout) 19:06:36 --> mayanktg has joined #instantbird 19:07:17 <flo-retina> nhnt11: can you explain what difference you make between splitting sessions and splitting logs? That's not entierely clear to me. 19:08:01 <nhnt11> flo-retina: Have you read https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1025522#c5? 19:08:04 <instantbot> Bug 1025522 nor, --, ---, nhnt11, ASSI, Split log files to prevent them from growing too large 19:09:02 <nhnt11> Um 19:09:11 <-- mayanktg has quit (Ping timeout) 19:09:35 <nhnt11> I just realized that if we split a log file at midnight, making the split file a continuedSession wouldn't make any sense :S 19:09:46 <nhnt11> since in the log viewer it'd be under a different date.. 19:09:54 <nhnt11> Bah 19:10:36 --> mayanktg has joined #instantbird 19:10:39 <nhnt11> I now think we should only have a continuedSession flag if we split after 1k messages, and only if the date didn't change 19:11:19 <nhnt11> flo-retina: Does this make sense? ^ 19:11:29 <flo-retina> some, yes :) 19:11:54 <flo-retina> I'm still not too sure about the difference between the log file unit and the session unit 19:12:34 <flo-retina> but splitting at 1k messages or some time after midnight without having a 20 minute quiet interval does seem like a more brutal cut 19:15:28 <nhnt11> flo-retina: If we split a file at midnight, /at the moment/ there is no point of not starting a new session 19:15:57 <flo-retina> I'm not sure why 19:16:07 <flo-retina> again, what are the user-implications of starting a new session? :) 19:16:32 <Mook_as> As a user: why would I care whether sessions exist? 19:16:36 <nhnt11> flo-retina: The two log files will show up under two different dates in the log viewer 19:16:42 <nhnt11> Because of session rulers 19:16:50 <nhnt11> And section scroll 19:17:07 <nhnt11> (a "session" marks a section scroll stop-point or whatever) 19:17:23 <Mook_as> Can I scroll from Tuesday's logs up into Monday? 19:17:51 <nhnt11> Mook_as: Right now the answer is likely... "it depends" 19:17:57 <Mook_as> Okay. 19:18:04 <Mook_as> After all this log stuff is done? 19:18:05 <nhnt11> If you started a conversation on monday and it went well into tuesday, the whole thing would show up under monday 19:18:28 <nhnt11> The goal is to avoid that happening, just because you didn't close the conversation via the tab 19:18:36 <Mook_as> Okay, amend the question: can I scroll up into a different (older) session? 19:19:20 <nhnt11> I'm still not clear exactly what you're asking, but if you're viewing the logs for a given date, you can scroll through all the sessions of the conversation that started on that date 19:19:49 <nhnt11> And right now a session starts when you open a conv, and ends when you close it (not counting putting it on hold) 19:20:55 <-- qheaden has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 19:21:01 <nhnt11> I propose we start a new session after 20 minutes of inactivity (in addition to the current behavior) 19:21:51 * nhnt11 works on a patch, code may clear things up a bit) 19:22:49 <-- Rym has quit (Ping timeout) 19:23:18 <flo-retina> "20 minutes of inactivity" do you mean 20 minutes of touching neither mouse nor keyboard? 19:23:36 <nhnt11> flo-retina: 20 minutes of no messages being exchanged 19:23:41 --> Rym has joined #instantbird 19:23:51 <flo-retina> isn't that already in the patch? 19:24:01 <nhnt11> Right now that starts a new log file but continues the session 19:24:12 <nhnt11> I got confused about our aims 19:24:14 <nhnt11> :] 19:24:39 <flo-retina> is 20 min enough? 19:24:54 <nhnt11> That's arbitrary, I'm open to increasing it. 19:25:02 * nhnt11 doesn't know what a good number is 19:25:07 <flo-retina> also, I'm now tempted to say that for the day change we should do it when the user is asleep 19:25:15 <flo-retina> rather than "at a specific time after midnight" 19:25:37 <flo-retina> and we can probably safely assume that if the user isn't touching the keyboard/mouse for a while and it's the middle of the night, then the user is asleep :) 19:25:56 <nhnt11> This assumes that people sleep at night :( 19:26:08 <flo-retina> it doesn't :) 19:26:09 <nhnt11> maybe that's why I'm having so much trouble accepting that point 19:26:27 <flo-retina> I'm just assuming that people sleep 'at some point' after midnight, at least once a day :) 19:27:22 <nhnt11> flo-retina: So if I wake up at let's say 8pm, have dinner, and start a conversation at 10pm, that goes on till 12pm. I now have a log that is mostly for the day /after/ I woke up date-wise, but shows up on the previous day in the log viewer 19:27:24 <flo-retina> my point really is: as a user, when go to bed, then whatever is said while I'm asleep is part of the 'session' I'll be seeing when I get up 19:28:18 <flo-retina> nhnt11: that assumes you have no quiet time in that conversation 19:29:58 <nhnt11> Fairly busy MUC? 19:30:21 <Mook_as> I suspect that, if the user consistently has a schedule that has a small amount before the date change, he/she will easily adapt to the date being consistently off by one. 19:30:29 <-- mayanktg has quit (Ping timeout) 19:31:03 <nhnt11> So it's the user's fault? :D 19:31:14 <flo-retina> nhnt11: I'm not sure the date will stay as important as it currently is 19:31:21 <nhnt11> There's something about having a large part of a conversation filed under the wrong date that just screams "wrong" at me 19:31:22 <flo-retina> I mean, in future ways of displaying logs 19:31:27 <nhnt11> Hmm, right. 19:31:49 --> mayanktg has joined #instantbird 19:32:10 <flo-retina> nhnt11: btw, if I get up at 5pm and then work until 6am, in my mind that day is the day I got up. Even if it's 6pm. 19:32:19 <flo-retina> err, 6m 19:32:21 <flo-retina> grr 19:32:22 <flo-retina> am 19:32:51 <Mook_as> I'm assuming getting up at 11pm and going to sleep in the afternoon 19:33:01 <Gizmokid2005> but in that case, what do you actually look for date-wise for your logs? 19:33:25 <Mook_as> but no, I don't think it's the user's fault, just that there's no real fault and that the user will be happy enough until we get something better :) 19:34:40 <nhnt11> Gizmokid2005: I'm talking to the good Mr. John. He says he told me that he got a dog, but I don't remember him telling me this. He says "Of course I told you, on the day I got it! December 15th!" I look at my log for december 15th. Poof, no mention of the dog. 19:34:57 <nhnt11> I have no idea why I felt like I had to make up a story for that^ :D 19:35:01 <Gizmokid2005> nhnt11: that's what I'm saying (it's because you started the convo on the 14th) 19:35:29 <nhnt11> How could I possibly remember that if I'm talking about this weeks later? 19:35:35 <Gizmokid2005> I would say splitting at midnight is the way to do it, cut and dry honestly. Looking at other apps I have that do logging that's how they split them. one per day because the date legitimately changes. 19:35:38 <Gizmokid2005> that's my point nhnt11 19:35:47 <Gizmokid2005> if you don't split at midnight, you would have no idea. 19:36:00 <Gizmokid2005> thusly the chat should just be logically split at the date change. 19:36:08 <nhnt11> Right, I'm /for/ splitting at midnight. 19:36:22 <Gizmokid2005> just allow the logviewer to do a rolling scroll 19:36:34 <Gizmokid2005> I don't think it's really an issue that needs solving honestly. 19:36:36 <nhnt11> Haha, that's so much easier said than done^ 19:36:38 <Gizmokid2005> but that's just my $0.02 19:36:47 <Gizmokid2005> oh I don't doubt that, but that would be teh "wishlist" for the logs 19:36:52 <Gizmokid2005> I know they don't now and I'm ok with that. 19:37:00 <Mook_as> So, it sounds like everybody's in violent agreement about the end state? 19:37:04 <Gizmokid2005> because splitting on a date makes sense and I can logically follow that into the next date. 19:37:23 <nhnt11> Mook_as: It's split when sleeping vs. split at midnight, not really in agreement. 19:38:02 <Mook_as> Okay, thanks for the summary :) 19:38:12 <Mook_as> (... and since text is sucky, no, that wasn't sarcasm) 19:38:30 <flo-retina> nhnt11: what's Mr John's timezone? 19:38:34 <Gizmokid2005> I suspect people who have the "normal" life of working across multiple days are used to any idiosyncracies with it. 19:38:37 <flo-retina> that's the important thing to know what day to look for... 19:38:50 <nhnt11> flo-retina: Same as mine, most of my friends are from the same town 19:39:10 <Gizmokid2005> store it as UTC and calculate the "day" based on your current computer time. 19:39:20 <Gizmokid2005> or even store it as local time and convert if it doesn't match the local computer's timezone 19:39:26 <Gizmokid2005> that way the "day" is always the local day. 19:39:34 <nhnt11> I really don't think timezones play a big part here 19:39:39 <Gizmokid2005> but I don't either 19:39:42 <Gizmokid2005> because it's still a day 19:39:54 <nhnt11> If Mr. John was in a different timezone, I'd know. 19:40:37 <nhnt11> I feel like this discussion is stretching out way too long 19:40:46 <clokep_work> nhnt11: I thought we solved this conversation the other day? 19:41:09 <nhnt11> clokep_work: Yes, but flo-retina has a new suggestion to split files when the user is sleeping ;) 19:41:17 <clokep_work> nhnt11: Also, Florian and I often discuss things and we're in various different timezones, that might even change depending on when we talk. 19:41:33 <clokep_work> nhnt11: Which you define as when there's nothing said in a while. Is that that hard? 19:41:58 <flo-retina> nhnt11: for your example of looking for a specific date in the log. As soon as you have infinite scroll, that will work perfectly ;) 19:41:59 <nhnt11> clokep_work: It's already implemented. It's not that it's hard 19:42:10 <nhnt11> It's about what flo just said^ 19:42:12 * clokep_work shuts up. 19:42:48 <nhnt11> flo-retina: How will it work perfectly with infinite scroll? 19:42:56 <nhnt11> What's a good UI to roll scrollback until a specific date? 19:42:59 <flo-retina> clokep_work: the thing we are actually discussing is when splitting logs should actually be splitting the sessions 19:43:18 <flo-retina> nhnt11: I think it will be your job to find one 19:43:34 * nhnt11 has always thought that scrollback is for looking at your recent history, and that the log viewer would be around to look up stuff date-wise 19:43:37 <flo-retina> nhnt11: but I would say we could pop out a calendar, and clicking a day on it would scroll to that day 19:43:44 <flo-retina> also, days without logs would be disabled 19:43:50 <nhnt11> Hmm. 19:43:55 --> jb has joined #instantbird 19:44:00 * nhnt11 wonders if there'll be time for that this GSoC 19:44:09 <flo-retina> I think it's in your schedule :-P 19:44:16 <nhnt11> Which I'm behind on :( 19:44:29 <flo-retina> indeed 19:44:29 <Gizmokid2005> nhnt11: I would say scrollback is only the most recent session and logs should be everything 19:44:50 <flo-retina> Gizmokid2005: please stop. You have obviously no idea of what we are discussing. 19:45:05 <Gizmokid2005> flo-retina: I was replying to this: [15:43:33] nhnt11 has always thought that scrollback is for looking at your recent history, and that the log viewer would be around to look up stuff date-wise 19:46:44 <nhnt11> Gizmokid2005: I'm working on a project this summer that includes automatically loading chat history as you scroll up 19:47:01 <nhnt11> "infinite scrollback" 19:47:29 <nhnt11> That could mean eliminating the log viewer completely if we figure out a good UX for every use-case for viewing logs 19:47:33 <Gizmokid2005> similar to infinite scrolling via twitter or facebook. 19:47:59 <Gizmokid2005> Not that it really matters, but I feel that would overwhelm the window and make it hard to navigate the more data you load. 19:48:13 <flo-retina> Gizmokid2005: please stop. 19:48:45 <Gizmokid2005> flo-retina: Gladly. Though I'll ask, what exactly I'm doing wrong? 19:49:18 <flo-retina> "that would overwhelm the window and make it hard to navigate" you have opinions about something you have never looked at (because it's not even been designed yet). 19:51:10 <Gizmokid2005> You're absolutely correct that it doesn't exist yet. It's merely an opinion based on using infinite scrolling designs both web and app based as well as designing some. It was simply an offering of opinion as a suggestion. I'm not berating any project or ideas, merely suggesting a potential pain point. 19:55:10 <flo-retina> Gizmokid2005: infinite scroll in photo applications tends to work quite well. (eg F-Spot) 19:56:24 <Gizmokid2005> I'm not familiar with F-spot but I would agree that photo applications lend better to infinite scroll because the individual 'data points' are larger and easier to distinguish 19:56:34 <nhnt11> *clears throat*. So flo-retina, how about, for now, we go with what you said here - http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/140614/#m359 - and figure out the sleeping thing later? Unless you're totally sure about splitting while sleeping, in which case I'll figure that out. 19:56:41 <Gizmokid2005> I'm in no way saying infinite scroll is bad. It's a super-awesome idea. :) 19:57:27 <flo-retina> nhnt11: that was about splitting logs. Today we were discussing splitting sessions 19:58:29 <nhnt11> flo-retina: What do you want me to do about the sessions for now then? I thought we wanted to decide on the session-splitting right now as well since it could affect log-splitting. 19:58:53 <nhnt11> Should I just go ahead and make every log file a new session, including split ones? 19:59:07 <flo-retina> nhnt11: would it make sense to just split sessions when there's activity for now 19:59:21 <flo-retina> and figure out if we split sessions during nights later? 19:59:25 <nhnt11> Alright. 19:59:37 <flo-retina> I meant *in*activity 19:59:42 <nhnt11> I understood 19:59:52 <flo-retina> :) 20:00:26 <-- mpmc has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.6a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com) 20:02:48 <nhnt11> flo-retina: Do you want to increase the 20 minute limit btw? 20:03:40 <flo-retina> do you? 20:03:54 <nhnt11> No. I rarely have conversations that continue with 20 minute gaps. 20:04:06 <nhnt11> possibly never, rarely just to be safe 20:04:21 <nhnt11> Maybe 30 minutes. That's only my use case though 20:06:23 <clokep_work> I do. 20:06:31 <clokep_work> Whether I consider them "one" conversation or not is vague. 20:07:09 <nhnt11> clokep_work: By conversation I meant a continuous discussion on a single topic 20:07:17 <nhnt11> Or something like that. Not the Instantbird conversation 20:07:41 <nhnt11> Basically I think if there's a 20-30 minute gap, that qualifies a new session 20:07:46 * nhnt11 shrugs 20:07:47 <Gizmokid2005> I would agree with you nhnt11. Once in a while I'll have them go close to 30 minutes, but beyond that I've already moved on in my own mind. 20:08:23 <clokep_work> nhnt11: Yes, so did I. ;) 20:08:49 <clokep_work> But 20 - 30 minutes sounds reasonable to me. 20:09:11 <clokep_work> nhnt11: How about we just make it 30 minutes and move on with our lives until we decide that's not good enough? 20:09:26 <nhnt11> sure 20:11:48 <flo-retina> fwiw, when reviewing the patch this morning, I almost suggested making these values hidden prefs... before deciding that was likely overkill 20:12:10 <-- mayanktg has quit (Ping timeout) 20:12:46 <flo-retina> nhnt11: if you ever want to try the "when asleep" idea, you'll likely need to have a look at http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/widget/nsIIdleService.idl 20:13:39 <nhnt11> flo-retina: I've seen that before somewhere! Thanks :) 20:15:19 --> mayanktg has joined #instantbird 20:23:02 <-- clokep_work has quit (Ping timeout) 20:24:36 <-- mayanktg has quit (Client exited) 20:25:08 --> mayanktg has joined #instantbird 20:32:01 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird 20:44:33 <-- nhnt11 has quit (Ping timeout) 20:44:37 --> nhnt11 has joined #instantbird 20:45:22 <-- Armada has quit (Connection reset by peer) 20:49:09 <-- mayanktg has quit (Client exited) 20:54:25 <-- Tonnes has quit (Ping timeout) 20:55:12 --> Tonnes has joined #instantbird 21:11:09 <instantbot> New Instantbird - Conversation bug 1034293 filed by email@example.com. 21:11:11 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1034293 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Incoming text messages sometimes do not display immediately 21:11:45 * Fallen|away is now known as Fallen 21:25:29 <-- chrisccoulson has quit (Quit: OSError: [Errno 130] Owner died) 21:59:07 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout) 22:08:18 <-- Rym has quit (Ping timeout) 22:09:00 --> Rym has joined #instantbird 22:14:19 --> chrisccoulson has joined #instantbird 22:20:27 <-- Rym has quit (Ping timeout) 22:21:13 --> Rym has joined #instantbird 22:23:14 <-- mconley has quit (Input/output error) 22:24:55 <-- Rym has quit (Ping timeout) 22:25:34 --> Rym has joined #instantbird 22:25:45 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 22:25:45 * ChanServ sets mode +o clokep 22:26:44 * clokep is annoyed. 22:30:55 * Fallen is now known as Fallen|away 22:48:04 <clokep> I can't get my windows build to work. 23:01:54 --> nhnt11-testing has joined #instantbird 23:02:20 <-- nhnt11-testing has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.6a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com) 23:09:23 <-- Rym has quit (Ping timeout) 23:12:43 --> Rym has joined #instantbird 23:25:33 * nhnt11 sighs 23:25:49 <nhnt11> These logs patches take me way longer than expected every time :-/ 23:26:52 <nhnt11> Bah, messed up a comment :'( 23:28:06 <-- Mook_as has quit (Quit: Mook_as)