#instantbird log on 03 17 2014

All times are UTC.

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01:24:56 <clokep_work> wnayes: ping
02:08:08 <clokep_work> instantbot: uuid
02:08:09 <instantbot> 7776d1b6-752d-4858-a2b3-316395988f2c (/msg instantbot cid for CID form)
02:30:38 <clokep> Well that was quite the update...
02:30:40 * clokep sighs.
02:30:43 <clokep> I never want to do that again.
02:39:43 <clokep> Bah we're busted. :-\
02:41:43 <instantbot> New Instantbird - Other bug 984211 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
02:41:45 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=984211 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Fix up purplexpcom for bug 345123 and bug 967364
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03:26:40 <instant-buildbot> build #2083 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Failure [4failed compile]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/2083
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04:26:58 <instant-buildbot> build #1299 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Failure [4failed compile]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/1299
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05:15:43 <nhnt11> flo-retina: Right, I didn't get a chance to try removing stuff last night.
05:16:10 <nhnt11> http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/140316/#m359 I had almost the exact same idea, but figured it was an "easy" or "lazy" way out.
05:17:30 <nhnt11> of course, I didn't have any concrete evidence to suggest that the alternative was overly complicated at the time...
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08:34:50 <flo-retina> nhnt11: if you make the constant large enough that it should never happen in real use cases, I think it's OK to force-separate bubbles after <constant> messages
08:38:13 <nhnt11> flo-retina: Yeah, makes sense.
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08:38:51 <nhnt11> Right now I want to further experiment on what i did yesterday, this time with grouped messages and removal
08:39:58 <flo-retina> heh, maybe adding and removing messages automatically is your community bounding project this year ;) (where for a small project we would accept keeping the existing log sync I/O)
08:40:39 <flo-retina> s/is/could be/
08:41:00 <nhnt11> flo-retina: I won't be able to do much (or anything really) in the community bonding period, I have my finals during that time
08:42:24 <flo-retina> another interesting (UX) issue is: how do you deal with the scrollbar?
08:42:52 <nhnt11> Heh, this came up with the awesometab as well
08:42:59 <nhnt11> But I suppose it's more important here
08:43:05 <flo-retina> yeah, I think it's worse here
08:43:15 <flo-retina> in the awesometab the scrollbar isn't really useful
08:44:00 <nhnt11> flo-retina: Is it useful in the conversation view? 
08:44:04 <nhnt11> It isn't even visble most of the time
08:44:07 <nhnt11> visible*
08:44:16 <flo-retina> because you are on OS X 10.8+
08:45:13 <nhnt11> I think recent versions of Windows also auto-hide scrollbars?
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09:02:20 * nhnt11 can't think of a "clean" solution for the scrollbar problem
09:03:33 <nhnt11> Actually I personally don't think it's a problem, as a user I'd think it was "cool" that messages were being added on the fly
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10:25:31 <Mic> http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/today#m22
10:25:41 <Mic> I don't agree with this, nhnt11
10:25:58 <Mic> That's only going to happen at the top of a conversation, doesn't it?
10:26:28 <clokep> nhnt11: The scrollbar is not auto hidden on Windows.
10:26:34 <clokep> I also set my Mac not to do it, personally. ;)
10:27:10 <nhnt11> Mic: Yes.
10:27:19 <Mic> How would the user see that place if older messages are automatically added when scrolling up? If he doesn't, why does it matter at all then ;)
10:28:02 <nhnt11> Mic: What do you mean by "place"?
10:28:53 <nhnt11> clokep: Hmm.
10:29:21 <Mic> The place where you'd split a set of grouped messages (for whatever reasons).
10:29:41 <Mic> If it's not visible it won't make a difference and you can do the convenient thing, in my opinion.
10:30:25 <Mic> nhnt11: are you trying with different themes by the way?
10:30:30 * nhnt11 still doesn't understand.
10:31:45 <nhnt11> Mic: I tried with all the default themes
10:33:16 * Mic doesn't understand neither.
10:33:21 <Mic> (Now).
10:34:14 <Mic> Do you know any circumstances when it would matter for the user if you inserted messages one by one or group by group?
10:34:51 <nhnt11> Mic: By "one by one" do you mean each message in "its own" group?
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10:35:58 <Mic> No, I mean adding each message on its own and re-grouping if needed. That's what you initially wanted to do, didn't you?
10:36:54 <nhnt11> Right. But flo pointed out that it would be difficult to remove individual messages (but I see no reason not to /add/ individual messages and /remove/ groups)
10:38:37 <Mic> Yes, I'd also add and remove groups of messages.
10:40:39 <Mic> You could try to think up a theme for which it wouldn't or at least might not work by the way? (i.e. what assumptions are you making and how could a theme not conform with them)
10:40:45 <Mic> Might be interesting or useful to do...
10:41:14 <Mic> With "it" being your experimental insert/remove code.
10:41:44 <nhnt11> Mic: The code is pretty simple, at this point I don't see why anything wouldn't conform with it :-/
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10:42:30 <nhnt11> It's pretty crude: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/636682
10:43:34 <nhnt11> bbl
10:45:42 <aleth> http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/140316/#m359 I agree with this.
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10:50:17 <Mic> nhnt11: OK, the only cases in which it might not work (and that I could think of) are totally weird.
10:51:11 <Mic> "it" = "it in principle" (not your demo).
10:53:00 <aleth> "it" = what?
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11:03:44 <flo-retina> Mic: I don't think you can add messages and group them later.
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11:13:24 <Mic> flo-retina: I don't think that either.
11:13:46 <flo-retina> alright, I guess I was confused by what I read in the log then :)
11:14:26 <Mic> With re-grouping is meant that you'd need build a new group out of the messages that are there already and the one you prepend.
11:14:40 <Mic> i.e. removing the old and inserting a new group with one message added.
11:14:57 <Mic> If that's what was confusing...
11:15:25 <Mic> Anyways I need to get lunch. See you tonight!
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12:32:46 <clokep_work> Hello. :)
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13:28:01 <clokep_work> aleth: You do realize I just unbitrotted the patch on bug 954928, right?
13:28:04 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=954928 enh, --, ---, wnayes, ASSI, Create an account import wizard - GSoC 2012
13:28:06 <clokep_work> I didn't look at any review comments.
13:28:32 <aleth> clokep_work: Yes, I realized that. My question is for wnayes, really.
13:30:01 <aleth> " by the time this patch lands, Instantbird will likely be based on Gecko 15 or newer." :P
13:30:39 <flo-retina> ... :'(
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13:33:56 <clokep_work> aleth: If I have time I'll try to look at some of those feedback. Is there a particular comment?
13:35:06 <flo-retina> clokep_work: haven't you said the latest patches wnayes add differed significantly from those that were in the bug?
13:35:14 <flo-retina> s/add/had/
13:36:48 <aleth> clokep_work: I've just checked on BIO, and it seems everything after https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1495 comment 9 belongs to the last (bitrotted) patch there?
13:37:31 <aleth> It's a /lot/ of feedback and there is no comment from wnayes after that.
13:37:44 <aleth> So unless things moved to a different bug without a comment...
13:39:32 <clokep_work> flo-retina: They did.
13:39:53 <flo-retina> so have wnayes and you been able to figure out what the best path forward was?
13:39:54 <clokep_work> aleth: The patches I put up were from wnayes not from the bugs.
13:40:02 <flo-retina> ah
13:40:03 <clokep_work> I have not.
13:40:08 <clokep_work> Well they were a combination. :)
13:40:29 <clokep_work> The "this is a whole bunch of importers" was from the bug, but the UI/backend/pidgin were his "newest" patches.
13:40:31 <aleth> clokep_work: OK, so I guess we need to ask him what he has addressed and what not, and I already did that, so...
13:40:49 <flo-retina> ok, so you are confident that the unbitrotted patches you attached are the newest of all the patches that were floating around, and that they are the only one worth looking at for anybody else?
13:41:33 <clokep_work> flo-retina: I did a diff between them and I'm >95% confident in that, yes.
13:41:43 <flo-retina> great, thanks!
13:41:56 <flo-retina> do you need input from wnayes to get the last 5% of confidence?
13:42:04 <clokep_work> Probably.
13:42:22 <flo-retina> clokep_work: thanks for making this move anyway :)
13:42:25 <clokep_work> The changes that DID exist were clearly from feedback (i.e. some were style changes to be foo++ to ++foo)
13:42:30 <aleth> clokep_work: great job unbitrotting that btw :)
13:42:43 <clokep_work> It wasn't THAT hard, just a huge PITA.
13:42:47 <clokep_work> But I'd like to see that land.
13:43:23 <aleth> We shouldn't let it bitrot again I guess.
13:43:32 <flo-retina> would be great if we could get that and SIPE out of my review queue (in a good way) before the coding period of GSoC 2014 :)
13:44:03 * flo-retina is just annoyed by the linux situation
13:44:13 <flo-retina> btw, can we release without our existing set of patches?
13:44:29 <flo-retina> if not, maybe we can just instead put our patches in a separate repos, and add a buildbot step to apply them...
13:45:04 <flo-retina> (and patch away the pango issue; to keep using our centos5 VM for another few weeks))
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13:50:11 <clokep_work> I'd rather not need any patches. :(
13:50:17 <clokep_work> But...if we really can't get around it.
13:53:08 <flo-retina> clokep_work: the questions are really: 1. can we release without them? 2. What's the best way out of the current Linux mess, given that nobody's got spare days to spend on it.
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13:53:31 <flo-retina> I'm not sure about 1.
13:53:44 <flo-retina> I think the most annoying regression will be the no longer reversed findbar
13:54:02 <flo-retina> and once we get infinite scroll, the find feature needs to be rebuilt anyway
13:54:05 <flo-retina> so... :-S
13:54:15 <clokep_work> Yes. :-\
13:54:31 <clokep_work> Have you reached out to #it?
13:54:48 <clokep_work> (About the CentOS mess.)
13:55:01 <clokep_work> flo-retina: I'd also love to see SIPE land btw. :P
13:55:04 <aleth> Is the findbar actually broken in current nightlies? It seems to wfm
13:55:16 <flo-retina> clokep_work: no.
13:55:21 <flo-retina> I haven't done anything about it.
13:55:23 <aleth> And I don't think the patch is currently applied, is it?
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13:56:46 <flo-retina> aleth: it's slightly broken
13:57:30 <flo-retina> but possibly usable enough
13:57:35 <aleth> What's broken about it?
13:58:14 <aleth> It seems to search from the bottom and "up" gives the next earlier result, which appears correct.
13:58:24 <flo-retina> when you start searching by typing ahead and add some characters, it will look for matches after the current one, and then start from the top
13:58:37 <flo-retina> next/previous aren't broken
13:58:55 <flo-retina> (because we swapped them in our keyboard shortcuts)
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14:19:32 * flo-retina had forgotten how painful XBL is to debug
14:21:19 <nhnt11> :D
14:24:41 <aleth> XBL reminds you very quickly ;)
14:27:20 <flo-retina> aleth: I think I'm going to rebuild with --enable-debug "just in case it would give me any hint" :(
14:27:45 <aleth> Is the new debugger/inspector useful for XBL stuff?
14:27:54 <flo-retina> yes
14:28:17 <flo-retina> well, it lets you step into functions that are defined into .xml files
14:28:18 <flo-retina> which is quite useful
14:28:29 <flo-retina> but doesn't tell me why my binding isn't attached at all
14:28:36 <aleth> That's a nice improvement
14:28:57 <aleth> Binding attachment is black magic
14:30:33 * dev_peace waves hello !
14:30:34 <flo-retina> alright, no debug build this time
14:30:37 <flo-retina> it was all my fault
14:30:50 <flo-retina> I made my binding inherit from a Firefox Metro (!) binding
14:31:02 <flo-retina> I mxr'ed the full url of the original binding... and copied the wrong one :(
14:31:28 <flo-retina> chrome://browser/content/bindings instead of chrome://global/content/bindings
14:31:28 <aleth> Not so mysterious then at least.
14:31:46 <flo-retina> aleth: well, if could have told me "file not found" and the path I was trying to use ;)
14:31:57 <flo-retina> I found it only when reviewing the whole file again
14:33:42 <clokep_work> Ah, c-c is closed...
14:33:45 <clokep_work> That's annoying.
14:34:02 <flo-retina> c-c or Tb?
14:34:33 <shrihari> flo-retina: In the description of Single Window UI, what do you mean by 'automatic resizing of conversations'?
14:34:46 <flo-retina> no idea; what's the context?
14:34:53 <shrihari> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Community:SummerOfCode14:Brainstorming#Instantbird
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14:35:07 <dev_peace> flo-retina: clokep_work could you just review my proposal when you guys have time ? 
14:35:20 <flo-retina> dev_peace: hasn't Mic sent you feedback already?
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14:36:00 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 984211 from --- to FIXED.
14:36:02 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=984211 nor, --, 1.6, clokep, RESO FIXED, Fix up purplexpcom for bug 345123 and bug 967364
14:36:11 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Turns out I'm stupid and it doesn't matter. :-D
14:36:15 <flo-retina> shrihari: I'm not fully sure I wrote that; but I think that means give more space to conversations that are actually active
14:36:36 <shrihari> flo-retina: Okay.
14:36:41 <flo-retina> clokep_work: "I'm stupid and it doesn't matter." is strange out of context ;)
14:36:54 <dev_peace> flo-retina: no
14:37:02 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Doesn't matter that TB is closed.
14:37:11 <flo-retina> clokep_work: I know :)
14:37:17 <clokep_work> dev_peace: I don't have much more comments besides what Mic said. It needs a lot more detail.
14:37:28 * flo-retina is glad clokep_work isn't stupid; and that would certainly matter: )
14:39:18 <dev_peace> clokep_work: I'll wait for detailed response for Mic, it would be good to know specific places where I should improve :)
14:39:22 <flo-retina> dev_peace: I forwarded to you Mic's reply that unfortunately went only to mailing lists
14:40:11 <dev_peace> flo-retina: no problem, thank you so much :)
14:40:39 <dev_peace> I'll be asking doubts these comming days, hope you guys wont mind :)
14:40:44 <shrihari> If I want to send in a proposal for review, I can email it to you guys?
14:42:17 <dev_peace> shrihari: you should mail it to team@instantbird.org
14:43:09 <shrihari> Okay..
14:45:10 <dev_peace> flo-retina: Just a question out of curiousity, can I keep updating my proposal after the 21st ?
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14:47:39 <clokep_work> dev_peace: You can keep updating it to the application deadline.
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14:59:41 <dev_peace> clokep_work: okay, The goal of the proposal states to make API's in the exisitng protocols ( XMPP ). I finally ended up deciding to implement 2 Api's ( one each for making an audio and video call ). But I am not sure how to integrate it with the codebase of ib ? Can you give me some guidance in that direction ?
15:01:17 <nhnt11> I've been playing with the infinite scroll experiment a bit more, and so far I agree with http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/today/#m106
15:01:39 <nhnt11> Except that I haven't actually thought of the "weird" cases (but I know that if they exist, they'd be weird :P)
15:01:54 <aleth> dev_peace: Really, your job in a proposal is to show to us that you are able to understand the codebase well enough to be able to *propose* what you intend to do.
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15:02:44 <flo-retina> nhnt11: I've no idea of what that sentence you agree with means
15:03:50 <nhnt11> flo-retina: I interpret it to mean "There aren't many cases where adding/removing messages would be unintuitively difficult"
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15:04:56 <nhnt11> I agree with your reasoning about adding or removing message groups.
15:05:18 <nhnt11> How many to add/remove would be pretty easily decided with some arithmetic using scrollTop and scrollHeight.
15:05:43 <flo-retina> nhnt11: it's also related to how quickly you can add messages back
15:05:57 <flo-retina> nhnt11: if you need disk I/O to get these messages again, it can't be immediate
15:06:09 <nhnt11> It would need to be async.
15:06:11 <flo-retina> nhnt11: so I think you can keep significantly more than what's visible.
15:07:03 <nhnt11> What facebook chat does (the browser client) is show a throbber kind of thing while messages are being fetched
15:07:17 <aleth> But we don't need to be as bad as a webapp ;)
15:07:24 <flo-retina> you can do that if it's really slow
15:07:36 <nhnt11> I don't think we'd need a throbber, honestly
15:07:36 <flo-retina> but if it takes less than 100ms, I don't think you need the throbber
15:07:54 <nhnt11> If we find cases where it takes too long, we can always make it show a throbber after an arbitrary interval of time
15:08:05 <aleth> Yeah.
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15:08:55 <nhnt11> aleth: So I haven't found many pitfalls honestly, except the complications with adding/removing messages to/from existing groups - which we have a solution for.
15:09:07 <aleth> Maybe "pitfalls" was the wrong word.
15:09:15 <nhnt11> If you had any particular pitfalls in mind that I'm obviously missing, care to give me a hint at where to look? :)
15:09:20 <nhnt11> aleth: I'm using the word lightly.
15:10:00 <flo-retina> nhnt11: time bubbles may be 'interesting' to deal with
15:10:18 <aleth> Heh, I was just typing a longer version of that ;)'
15:10:19 * nhnt11 takes a look
15:10:22 <flo-retina> nhnt11: it will need to be taught to deal with spacing between the bubble that's inserted and the bubble after it
15:10:34 <nhnt11> Sorry, you've already mentioned that once. I forgot :-/
15:10:50 <aleth> Generally various things assume that any message added is added at the bottom (i.e in sequence)
15:11:17 <nhnt11> Hmm, I think I need to use the Bubbles theme for a bit to get a better feel for this
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15:11:38 <nhnt12> Bah, the preferences crash :(
15:11:50 <clokep_work> nhnt12: What do you use?
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15:11:56 <nhnt11> clokep_work: Paper sheets
15:12:12 <aleth> Also how you refer to the messages currently in the DOM so you can remove them, how you fetch new ones and/or buffer them
15:12:13 <clokep_work> Oh, I see.
15:12:15 <clokep_work> (ew.)
15:12:31 <flo-retina> would be really nice to convince someone to fix the preference crash :(
15:12:50 <aleth> Generally the whole "adding messages" process currently just receives the entire backlog from the prpl, do you propose/do you need to change that?
15:12:59 <nhnt11> clokep_work: To each his own? I think paper sheets looks "cleaner" than bubbles.
15:14:26 <nhnt11> aleth: Are you referring to incoming messages?
15:14:29 <nhnt11> i.e. unread ones
15:14:42 <aleth> Right, imagine you had the conv on hold.
15:14:56 <nhnt11> Got it
15:15:14 <aleth> Also, how does the unread messages notification and/or unread ruler work if you *don't* decide to receive the whole backlog?
15:15:36 <aleth> Just throwing these things out there... basically have a look at how messages are currently added and think about what you would change
15:15:46 <nhnt11> Okay I'm thinking about this.
15:16:15 <nhnt11> I need to check whether opening a conv on hold with lots of unread messages scrolls to the first unread message or not
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15:16:24 <nhnt11> (I would expect it to)
15:16:36 <nhnt11> I don't keep too many convs on hold :
15:16:39 <nhnt11> :]
15:16:39 <aleth> I think you have to swipe up actuallt.
15:16:48 <aleth> (ie section scroll)
15:17:29 <nhnt11> Thanks for bringing this problem up, I hadn't thought of it.
15:18:58 <nhnt11> So now I'm thinking, the convbrowser needs to keep a buffer of messages to be prepended on scrolling, and keep it async'ly updated from the prpl (or the log)
15:19:21 <nhnt11> Also messages that get removed when the user scrolls down get pushed into the end of the buffer 
15:19:30 <nhnt11> (and shift out the first message that was already there)
15:19:58 <nhnt11> Er, a double ended queue :]
15:20:08 <aleth> This whole removal business, does it work like a gc (ie after a period of inactivity) or...?
15:20:08 <flo-retina> nhnt11: something else to think about: if the user doesn't logs; then you can't just drop messages on the floor to free some memory ;)
15:20:59 <aleth> How long does it take for the convbrowser to receive a >1000msg backlog from the prpl? While it waits, it can't display anything.
15:21:34 <aleth> ok, I think that's enough 'pitfalls' for now ;)
15:21:42 <nhnt11> aleth: Yes, I imagine it to be like a gc
15:21:51 <nhnt11> flo-retina: Ugh, users :P
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15:22:00 <nhnt11> But yeah good point.
15:22:14 * nhnt11 now goes to look at how the convbrowser receives backlog from the prpl
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15:22:53 <flo-retina> convbrowser doesn't interact with the prpl, but with the conversation service
15:23:20 <clokep_work> aleth: Messages aren't queued in prpls for display.
15:23:28 <nhnt11> flo-retina: I'll find that out when I do some digging ;)
15:23:31 <aleth> clokep_work: precisely
15:24:16 <aleth> (I was just suggesting to trace the whole lifecycle of a message ;) )
15:25:30 <nhnt11> flo-retina: bug 953743 seems to point at a tentative solution to the "user has disabled logs" case
15:25:32 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=953743 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add an array of all the displayed messages
15:25:51 <flo-retina> shouldn't that be done in the convs service instead?
15:26:20 <nhnt11> Yeah.
15:26:50 <flo-retina> bbiab
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15:29:23 <nhnt11> Hmm, section scroll is probably something that could be broken by infinite scroll
15:30:20 <aleth> Yup, you need a way to jump to certain places. For search as well...
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15:36:06 <nhnt11> Wow, thinking about a way to jump to an arbitrary location in history while maintaining some sort of intuitiveness with infinite scroll makes my brain hurt.  
15:36:53 <clokep_work> :)
15:36:57 <clokep_work> That's our goal
15:37:06 <clokep_work> Make our students' brain's hurt.
15:37:08 <nhnt11> to make my brain hurt? /scnr
15:37:12 <nhnt11> Hahaha
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15:44:15 * nhnt11 wonders if it would be sensible to display a "View older results" button (or link, or something) that would open the log viewer
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15:46:59 <nhnt11> Hmm, that's the best UI I can propose for this at the moment.
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17:00:15 <nhnt11> flo-retina: I'm tempted to include integrating the stats service with the new log database in my proposal. Do you think it would go on too much of a tangent or take too much time?
17:00:36 <nhnt11> Actually, maybe it should be a main goal of the project.
17:04:06 <flo-retina> nhnt11: if by "integrating" you mean crawl the log dir only once for both, that makes total sense
17:04:44 <nhnt11> flo-retina: No, I mean storing stats in the database and querying it instead of keeping stuff in memory
17:06:01 <nhnt11> I'm pretty sure it will take a decent enough chunk of time to be more than a small tangent from the project, so my question is, should I include it as a main goal or keep it for post-GSoC?
17:06:09 <flo-retina> nhnt11: difficult to know if it's a good idea before we know what the performances of the database will be
17:06:31 <nhnt11> Hmm.
17:06:37 <flo-retina> I don't see an obvious benefit
17:07:00 <nhnt11> Right
17:07:22 <flo-retina> if you can get fast enough lookups from the database, you will just be able to delete the .json file the stats service currently maintains.
17:07:33 <flo-retina> I don't see why that would take a lot of time
17:08:04 <nhnt11> Let me check the stats service code really quickly
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17:09:17 <nhnt11> Btw, by "decent enough chunk of time" I meant a few days, and at the most maybe a week.
17:10:49 <nhnt11> I'm going to include it in my proposal for now.
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17:17:20 <clokep_work> nhnt11: I have lots of: Error: Error reading log file: /Users/pcloke/Library/Application Support/Instantbird/Profiles/v8m6148l.default/logs/irc/clokep_work@irc.mozilla.org/nickserv/2014-03-11.130403-0400.json
17:17:20 <clokep_work> ReferenceError: Internals is not defined
17:17:20 <clokep_work> Source File: resource://gre/components/ibConvStatsService.js Line: 208
17:17:40 <nhnt11> clokep_work: I saw that too, today :(
17:17:41 <clokep_work> Anyone else ahving issues connecting to GTalk?
17:17:44 <nhnt11> Meant to take a look...
17:17:48 <nhnt11> clokep_work: GTalk is down apparently
17:17:59 <nhnt11> http://www.google.com/appsstatus#hl=en&v=status
17:18:52 <nhnt11> That error has something to do with OS.File...
17:19:12 <clokep_work> nhnt11: Is there a bug filed?
17:19:16 <clokep_work> Ah, that's annoying. :(
17:20:01 * nhnt11 guesses an m-c regression...
17:20:04 <nhnt11> clokep_work: No there isn't
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17:25:31 <mayanktg> yes!
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17:26:49 <mayanktg> clokep_work: http://mashable.com/2014/03/17/gchat-google-drive-down/
17:28:13 <clokep_work> mayanktg: I prefer the link nhnt11 already gave me, but thanks.
17:28:40 <mayanktg> clokep_work: yeah ..I saw it later..
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17:43:06 * clokep_work is lost w/o GTalk. :(
17:48:18 <wnayes> clokep_work: So I think those pastebin patches are definitely the newest ones I have, and have addressed feedback at least up to Comment 3 of bug 955133.
17:48:22 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=955133 enh, --, ---, wnayes, ASSI, Implement the import wizard service and backend
17:48:46 <wnayes> Now if I had done more changes, I don't remember since it would have been ~15 months ago :(
17:51:15 <wnayes> All of the importers themselves were not changed from even the big GSoC final patch, since I focused more on dividing the importer service, ui, etc. and getting the service in good shape.
17:56:17 <wnayes> Pidgin just happened to be the one that I set up to test the other patches with.
18:00:00 <wnayes> It looks like a couple major TODOs are finishing ImportersService xpcshell tests and better ID assingment in ImporterConversation.
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18:21:49 <qheaden> Hello everybody.
18:31:32 <clokep_work> wnayes: Thanks. :)
18:31:34 <clokep_work> Hello qheaden.
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18:54:03 <Mook_as> Hmm. Why is IB not telling me that gtalk is busted, I just can't open conversations :|
18:54:35 <EionRobb> gtalk has been down for a few hours
18:54:46 <EionRobb> http://www.google.com/appsstatus#hl=en&v=issue&sid=3&iid=9cb1a82cdfa9e2ce88ca138c4af8915d
18:55:21 <Mook_as> Sure; I'm complaining that IB didn't tell me about it being disconnected :p
18:55:39 <EionRobb> ah :)
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19:04:21 <clokep_work> Mook_as: That's cause it still thinks you're connected. :(
19:04:58 <nhnt11> Phew
19:05:09 <nhnt11> I think I've put together an acceptable/presentable first draft
19:05:27 <nhnt11> I'll share it shortly..
19:06:33 <instantbot> New Instantbird - Account manager bug 984520 filed by fkoenen@feweb.net.
19:06:35 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=984520 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, New account type XMPP fails to SSL Handshake 8172
19:06:46 <Mook_as> clokep_work: ah :( I guess it can't do anything when I try to start a conversation?
19:07:21 <Mook_as> ( TypeError: win.document.getElementById(...).addConversation is not a function Source File: resource:///modules/imWindows.jsm Line: 190 )
19:08:16 <qheaden> I was wondering why I couldn't connect to GTalk
19:11:39 <nhnt11> flo-retina, clokep_work: I've got a draft of my proposal ready to be scrutinized. Would you prefer if a) I updated the etherpad, b) I emailed a pdf to team@, or c) I just put it up on melange?
19:15:55 <clokep_work> Mook_as: That's odd. :-\
19:16:08 <clokep_work> nhnt11: Personally I'd prefer b.
19:16:21 <nhnt11> I'd prefer b. too :)
19:16:29 <nhnt11> etherpad screws up formatting kinda :-/
19:17:35 <nhnt11> Bah, I seem to have missed adding the Conversations service stuff.
19:17:48 * nhnt11 will take some more time.
19:17:48 <Mook_as> Ah. Interesting, restarting the app made things better
19:18:01 <Mook_as> (it actually tells me that things couldn't be delivered)
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19:52:17 <nhnt11> I've sent my proposal to the team mailing list. :)
19:52:38 <Mic> http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/today#m249 :(
19:52:54 <Mic> I'm sorry for that.
19:54:14 <nhnt11> Btw, a particular thing I'd like feedback on is if/how I can split the milestones further into smaller parts.
19:55:21 <flo-retina> bug 8172 feels invalid
19:55:24 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8172 nor, P3, M15, neeti, RESO WONTFIX, EXPORT - interface methods on "services" - pics
19:55:40 <flo-retina> errr, bug 984520
19:55:42 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=984520 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, New account type XMPP fails to SSL Handshake 8172
19:56:10 <flo-retina> "SSL only when available" means use SSL if the server offers it, not "ignore broken certs"
19:57:12 <EionRobb> where's the "ignore broken certs" option ;)
19:57:16 <clokep_work> I agree. ;)
19:57:22 <clokep_work> EionRobb: We have a pref for that actually. :(
19:57:27 <EionRobb> darn
20:03:46 <clokep_work> EionRobb: Mostly because people seem to REALLY want to use broken certs and not import them. :(
20:04:33 <clokep_work> nhnt11: I disagree with "Chat	logs	are	ridiculously	difficult	to	search.", grep is easy. ;)
20:04:56 <flo-retina> on Mac it is!
20:05:15 <flo-retina> on Windows... it requires not throwing the computer out the window when looking at how ugly the terminal is ;)
20:05:20 <nhnt11> clokep_work: That whole section is from a non-developer point of view
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20:09:58 <Mook_as> flo-retina: windows has a gui! win+F! :p
20:10:10 <Mook_as> (good luck figuring out json escaping, though)
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20:10:19 <marti1125> hi
20:10:28 <clokep_work> Hello marti1125.
20:10:41 <clokep_work> nhnt11: I'm teasing you.
20:11:00 <clokep_work> marti1125: Which idea seemed intriguing to you?
20:11:04 <nhnt11> okay :P
20:11:42 <marti1125> about this https://wiki.mozilla.org/Community:SummerOfCode14:Brainstorming
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20:13:03 <nhnt11> clokep_work: I think I kinda assumed you would put such conversations (in which you would have 10k unread messages) on hold
20:13:42 <marti1125> XD
20:13:48 <marti1125> is too late xD
20:15:10 <nhnt11> clokep_work: I wasn't implying that we get rid of the json logs, but I wasn't implying we keep them either.
20:15:19 <nhnt11> Keeping them would be nice since they're human readable I guess.
20:15:30 <clokep_work> nhnt11: Yeah...they are on hold.
20:15:47 <clokep_work> nhnt11: Keeping them is nice because databases like to explode.
20:15:51 <clokep_work> marti1125: Too late for what?
20:15:57 <clokep_work> And that link links to a handful of ideas.
20:16:01 <clokep_work> Which one are you interested in?
20:16:22 <clokep_work> Ah, it only lists one...the rest of them are on https://wiki.mozilla.org/Community:SummerOfCode14#Instantbird
20:16:29 <nhnt11> clokep_work: Ah, I've mentioned in point 2. c. that we won't want to display a ton of unread messages when a conv is restored from hold :)
20:16:44 <clokep_work> OK.
20:17:50 <nhnt11> And I don't know much about databases exploding, or even existing, unfortunately
20:20:13 <clokep_work> ;)
20:20:18 <clokep_work> Well talk to Florian about it.
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20:21:58 <flo-retina> nhnt11: edge case: what's the expected behavior for Command+a Command+c with infinite scroll?
20:22:56 <nhnt11> :]
20:23:14 <nhnt11> I'll need to think about that
20:23:39 <nhnt11> My first reaction was that I would expect it to ask me how much I want to copy. /How/ it would ask me is unclear though
20:24:19 <nhnt11> Hmm, there are probably a lot more edge cases like this that I should start thinking about...
20:26:35 <flo-retina> marti1125: feel free to ask any question about Instantbird GSoC projects here. I'm not the only one who can answer
20:26:47 <marti1125> ok, thanks
20:28:24 <marti1125> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Community:SummerOfCode14:Brainstorming Single window UI: 
20:29:04 <marti1125> I have experience with js and something of xul 
20:29:47 <clokep_work> marti1125: OK. So...what's your question? :)
20:31:39 * nhnt11 remembers a bug he saw about copying
20:32:26 <nhnt11> Ah, bug 955349
20:32:29 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=955349 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, "Extract Conversation With..." feature
20:33:19 <nhnt11> Specifically the last bit in the description, "[...] a preview window of the output, which allowed you to [...] format the result."
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20:34:04 <nhnt11> (not saying it's a solution, but it's an interesting concept that could be adapted for the cmd+a cmd+c case)
20:34:47 <marti1125> how to start to implement this new ui?
20:36:19 <marti1125> xul + css3 :3
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20:39:28 <marti1125> upss sorry :/ I lost my connection
20:39:37 <clokep_work> marti1125: Yes, it would be a bit of XUL and JavaScript and CSS most likely.
20:39:46 <clokep_work> Before implementation you should ensure you understand the problem space.
20:42:29 <marti1125> what is the main problem with old design? 
20:42:29 <marti1125> What do you want to get with this new interface?
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20:48:24 <marti1125> is really similar to pidgin
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21:09:18 <marti1125> hi =?
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21:15:37 <clokep_work> marti1125: Please ask me things in here unless they can't be public.
21:16:06 <marti1125> ok
21:16:29 <marti1125> about ui of instandbird What do you want to get with this new interface?
21:17:11 <nhnt11> marti1125: You can talk to me here like cloke p_work said.
21:17:30 <nhnt11> Your questions are somewhat answered already in the wiki
21:18:50 <marti1125> ok
21:19:53 <clokep_work> Personally I don't really know, I mostly like our UI now. ;)
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21:22:27 <nhnt11> Is the awesometab broken?
21:22:41 <nhnt11> (The order of the list seems pretty wrong for me)
21:22:51 <nhnt11> I'm wondering if this is related to that OS.File error
21:23:08 <flo-retina> nhnt11: kinda difficult to tell while gtalk is down
21:23:14 <nhnt11> It's originating from log sweeping code, which makes little sense to me (why is the log sweeping running?)
21:23:22 <nhnt11> flo-retina: GTalk is back
21:23:31 <nhnt11> (and has been for a while i think)
21:23:47 <flo-retina> well, my account is still stuck on "Downloading contact list…"
21:23:48 <flo-retina> that sucks :(
21:24:06 <nhnt11> My account is connecting fine
21:24:27 <flo-retina> my account is connected fine now
21:24:34 <flo-retina> we just need to add a timeout for connection attempts
21:24:57 <flo-retina> nhnt11: the awesometab still doesn't show me any gtalk contact though
21:25:16 <nhnt11> Btw, I think I've figured out the reason I don't like bubbles too much - i find it a bit difficult to tell who sent a message
21:25:30 <nhnt11> (A lot of people in #instantbird are reddish, and the nick is a bit hard to read imo)
21:25:39 <nhnt11> flo-retina: Yeah, something is broken :-/
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21:26:04 <nhnt11> I have gtalk contacts in my awesometab but not in a weird order
21:26:20 <nhnt11> Er, alphabetical order in fact
21:26:37 <nhnt11> looks like stats/ranking is completely broken?
21:26:41 <nhnt11> brb
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21:27:02 <nhnt11> Log sweeping is running...
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21:27:21 <nhnt11> looks like it failed for every log file
21:28:12 <nhnt11> :(
21:28:18 <Mic> nhnt11: the log sweeping is running too for me after updating.
21:28:34 <nhnt11> Mic: Check your error console, it is likely failing
21:28:49 <Mic> Yes, it does. Looks like it fails for every single log file.
21:28:57 <nhnt11> Exactly.
21:29:15 * nhnt11 files a bug
21:31:02 <nhnt11> Interesting, it's definitely failing to read the stats cache json file and then initiating a log sweep
21:31:14 <nhnt11> but there's no error about failing to read statsservicecache.json
21:32:28 <marti1125> Goal: Provide an alternative UI that works well in a single window.  To design and implement a single-window UI that does not require a separate contact list and makes good use of the available space when the window is full-screen. 
21:32:31 <clokep_work> Awesometab looks awesome to me. ;)
21:32:55 <nhnt11> clokep_work: Didn't you see that error too? "Internals not defined"
21:33:00 <clokep_work> nhnt11: Yes.
21:33:04 <nhnt11> If you did, I don't see how it could be working for you
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21:33:48 <clokep_work> nhnt11:  I only see errors from my IRC account.
21:34:03 <nhnt11> Ah... the error console discards messages after a point...
21:34:26 <clokep_work> Yes, it does...
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21:35:21 <nhnt11> Okay I ran Ib from a terminal
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21:35:24 <nhnt11> And this is what I saw:
21:35:31 <nhnt11> er, 1 second
21:35:39 <nhnt11> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/637183
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21:38:59 <nhnt11> Hmm, it starts with |aPrpls.shift(...) is undefined|, here: https://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/im/components/ibConvStatsService.js#101
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21:40:09 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 
21:40:49 <Mic> hmm, Ib dies when trying to run the debugger from within Fx:S
21:41:22 <nhnt11> I really need to sleep, can someone file a bug please?
21:41:30 <nhnt11> Good night.
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21:42:49 <clokep_work> nhnt11: I'm gonna assign it to you?
21:43:22 <nhnt11> clokep_work: Okay, I guess. I won't pretend I have a clue what's happening though at the moment :(
21:44:51 <instantbot> New Instantbird - Conversation bug 984601 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
21:44:53 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=984601 nor, --, ---, nhnt11, ASSI, Awesometab indexing broken
21:44:58 <clokep_work> I'm confident you'll figure it out. :-D
21:45:35 <nhnt11> flo-retina: Would it be alright if, in the schedule of deliverables, I labelled milestones as "halfway to midterm", "midterm", "halfway to final", and "final"? Or something like that.
21:45:37 <nhnt11> clokep_work: ^
21:45:45 <nhnt11> Thanks for the confidence, btw :]
21:46:04 <clokep_work> nhnt11: I think doing it in whatever makes sense for the amount of work is appropriate.
21:46:56 <nhnt11> Right, my question is more like "is it definitely okay if i'm not super precise with the amount of time I assign to a milestone?"
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21:50:22 <nhnt11> Good night (seriously) :)
21:50:25 * mconley|mtg is now known as mconley
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21:51:01 <clokep_work> nhnt11: No engineer is good at predicting how long things take. You can ask mconley about that and australis. ;)
21:51:26 <mconley> it's true
21:51:36 <mconley> no plan survives breakfast
21:52:35 <clokep_work> Mmm, breakfast.
21:52:37 <clokep_work> I want a bagel.
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21:57:25 <flo-retina> nhnt11: the relative importance you give to each part is more important to me than the estimated days on the calendar
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22:18:53 <Mic> flo-retina: for your information, there's an error posted in #maildev that mentions blist.sqlite
22:19:45 <Mic> I don't know what to make of it...
22:20:13 <flo-retina> a mozmill test accessing the blist? :-S
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22:24:11 <Mook_as> seems like it's trying to delete a profile?
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