#instantbird log on 03 16 2014

All times are UTC.

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03:29:06 <instant-buildbot> build #2082 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Failure [4failed compile]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/2082
04:29:23 <instant-buildbot> build #1298 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Failure [4failed compile]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/1298
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05:07:33 <sawrubh> how can I run the standalone nightly that I downloaded from http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/nightly/latest-1.6a1pre/
05:08:12 <sawrubh> I'm running ./instantbird but get this message
05:08:17 <sawrubh> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/nyKtcBSq
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09:24:42 <flo-retina> sawrubh: are you on Ubuntu?
09:24:52 <sawrubh> yeah
09:25:03 <flo-retina> 64bits?
09:25:07 <sawrubh> yeah
09:25:47 <flo-retina> sudo apt-get install libasound2:i386 libpango1.0-0:i386 libcairo2:i386 libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0:i386 libatk1.0-0:i386 libgtk2.0-0:i386 libcanberra-gtk0:i386 gtk2-engines-murrine:i386 appmenu-gtk:i386
09:26:09 <flo-retina> (our binaries are 32bit, so you have to install 32 bit versions of some libraries)
09:26:14 <sawrubh> ah
09:28:01 <sawrubh> flo-retina: could you take a look at my proposal ?
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09:41:03 <Mic> Hi
09:44:36 <instantbot> New Instantbird - Account wizard bug 984091 filed by saurabhanandiit@gmail.com.
09:44:42 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=984091 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Text blurring while entering nick
09:46:53 <flo-retina> sawrubh: done
09:47:02 <sawrubh> flo-retina: Thanks
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10:33:00 <Mic> dev_peace: please investigate the volume/bandwidth control idea. Does it work: yes/no. How would it be implemented, ...
10:33:08 <Mic> I forgot adding that in my email.
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10:54:13 <nhnt11> sawrubh: Feel free to ask questions here.
10:54:26 <nhnt11> 16:23:30 - sawrubh: which xul file controls the look and feel of the chat box ?
10:54:26 <nhnt11> I think you want conversation.xml
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11:17:41 <nhnt11> everyone: I've started putting together my proposal. I should have something ready for some comments/criticism by tonight :)
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11:31:00 <flo-retina> nhnt11: take your time, but don't miss the deadline!
11:43:08 <shrihari> flo-retina: I've asked this before.. But, what would you look for in a proposal for Single Window UI? Anything specific?
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12:05:18 <flo-retina> shrihari: I would want the proposal to convince me that the student has thought about the problem for a while, and proposed something consistent. Also, the proposition should integrate well with the existing UI, so that it doesn't disturb existing users
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12:08:06 <shrihari> flo-retina: Okay.. Thanks :)
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13:15:57 <sawrubh> something weird is happening with my codebase. So the first time, I had cloned comm-central, then copied my already cloned mozilla-central to a mozilla named folder, built it. It built perfectly fine. Then I cloned libpurple and then tried to build and got some error in mach. I checked the mozilla folder and it had very few folders compared to what was
13:15:57 <sawrubh> originally in m-c (folders like netwerk etc)
13:16:35 <sawrubh> so I deleted mozilla, downloaded a hg bundle, unbundled it in mozilla, ran python client.py checkout
13:16:54 <sawrubh> and now I'm getting this error in python client.py checkout : 
13:17:47 <sawrubh> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/635715
13:18:26 <sawrubh> and what's much more weird is that the mozilla folder has even lesser folders this time
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14:07:17 <clokep_work> sawrubh: Sounds like a file system problem. :-\
14:07:27 <clokep_work> Try |hg update| inside of mozilla/?
14:07:32 <clokep_work> Or run |hg status| and see how it responds?
14:09:35 <shrihari> What do you guys generally use the contacts window for?
14:10:02 <shrihari> If at all you use it.
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14:10:17 <clokep_work> I use it to start conversations / track who is online. ;)
14:12:22 <shrihari> For starting conversations, when do you use AwesomeTab and when the Contacts window? As in, in which use cases?
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14:44:15 <flo-retina> shrihari: I use the awesometab if I know who i'm going to talk to.
14:44:33 <flo-retina> shrihari: I tend to use the contacts window if I check several times during a day if someone is online/available before starting a conversation
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14:47:30 <shrihari> Right! I use it in the same way too..
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15:30:38 <aleth> clokep++ for looking at wnayes' humungous patches :)
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16:02:17 <aleth> flo-retina: If you check in the updated Linux FAQ patch you won't have to copypaste it to #instantbird ever again ;)
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16:32:18 <nhnt11> http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/today/#m126 Interesting, the people whose statuses/availabilities I want to check are usually at the top of the awesometab list
16:32:24 <nhnt11> (or I just type their name)
16:32:32 * nhnt11 hasn't used the buddy list since forever
16:33:57 <shrihari> nhnt11: But Awesometab requires you to Cmd+T. The buddy list takes just a glance.
16:34:09 <nhnt11> shrihari: The buddy list takes space on my screen
16:34:14 <nhnt11> So it's never open
16:35:14 <aleth> If we had buddy pounce I'm not sure I'd use the contact list any more to check presence.
16:35:30 <shrihari> Right. So that leads to my next question. What's your IB setup like?
16:35:55 <nhnt11> shrihari: I have a single window open all the time, which has a few tabs open for IRC channels that I want to stay up to date with
16:36:06 <shrihari> A screenshot would be really helpful. If you don't wish to share a screenshot, a couple of sentences would do.
16:36:08 <aleth> I also use the contact window to pile up conversations on hold so as not to have too many tabs open
16:36:25 <nhnt11> Conversations with friends are open while I'm talking to them, I tend to close them after a few minutes of silence
16:36:35 <aleth> I generally have one conversation window with around 3-5 tabs
16:36:45 <shrihari> My setup: Conversations window (with few tabs) takes half of my screen. Contacts window is open on the right corner of the screen.
16:36:53 <nhnt11> I usually have 3-5 tabs as well.
16:37:13 <nhnt11> The single window that I have open is on the bottom right of my screen. it uses 1/6th of the screen usually
16:37:17 <aleth> Most of the time the contacts window just uses up space, so there is room for improvement.
16:37:57 <aleth> There is no benefit to having a big conversation window really.
16:37:58 <shrihari> I gotta go now. I'll check the log tomorrow.
16:38:01 <nhnt11> When I have my external screen connected, it takes a little less than 1/6th because the screen has more real estate.
16:38:02 <shrihari> Bye guys.
16:38:05 <nhnt11> Bye!
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16:43:46 <dev_peace> do have a look at my proposal guys, thank you
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16:56:21 <aleth> Does that notification sound for new message notifications come from IB or from OSX? Because I have sounds turned off in IB...
17:33:32 <instantbot> New Instantbird - Other bug 984144 filed by aleth@instantbird.org.
17:33:34 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=984144 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Dock icon bounce on new message is synchronous
17:47:05 <nhnt11> aleth: That bug sounds really weird.
17:47:13 <aleth> Can you reproduce it?
17:47:24 <nhnt11> I'm actually surprised that you switched to the tab fast enough that the icon was still bouncing
17:47:44 <aleth> It bounces for a long time for me ;)
17:48:06 <nhnt11> aleth: Can you send me a pm?
17:48:33 <nhnt11> aleth: One more?Couldn't switch fast enough :]
17:49:34 <nhnt11> Okay so I clicked it just as the icon was bouncing back "under" my screen
17:49:37 <nhnt11> And the message was there.
17:50:02 <aleth> You clicked the icon?
17:50:03 <nhnt11> (I focused another app, hovered my mouse cursor on your tab, and clicked the instant I got a notification)
17:50:29 <aleth> I'm talking about what happens when you don't switch to the application.
17:50:45 <nhnt11> Hmm, so do I need your tab already focused?
17:50:50 <aleth> e.g. if the window is visible, but not focused.
17:50:51 <nhnt11> Send me one last pm ;)
17:51:14 <nhnt11> aleth: Definitely can't reproduce
17:51:24 <nhnt11> The message appeared at the same time that the icon started bouncing
17:51:24 <aleth> weird
17:51:57 <nhnt11> And it doesn't bounce for a long time for me, I find that weird too.
17:51:58 <aleth> I'll have to see if there's some other factor involved then
17:55:13 <nhnt11> flo-retina: http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/140316#m73 I'll be careful not to :)
17:57:49 * dev_peace happy, finally IM installed :)
17:58:05 <flo-retina> aleth: yes, I'm sorry about all the reviews I haven't done for you :(
17:58:39 <aleth> flo-retina: Don't worry about it, it's not like there hasn't been plenty of other things going on
17:59:25 <flo-retina> nhnt11: "Interesting, the people whose statuses/availabilities I want to check are usually at the top of the awesometab list" I use the awesometab when I want to check someone's status _once_ just before I start a conversation. If I'm waiting for an American coworker to become available, I check maybe 10 times during the day, and just glancing at the blist is faster.
17:59:57 <nhnt11> Fair enough, if you have the blist visible all the time, or the contact is someone who's not at the top.
17:59:59 <flo-retina> btw, "just takes a glance" is only true when I moved the Ib windows to a secondary screen
18:00:27 <nhnt11> Yeah, the way I use Ib varies a bit with a screen connected
18:00:30 <aleth> flo-retina: So like me what you "really want" is to tell IB to tell you when X is available?
18:00:49 <nhnt11> I was about to suggest that^
18:00:56 <nhnt11> Maybe someone should write an addon ;)
18:01:43 <nhnt11> That would be useful actually... status notifications for "X" where X can be a buddy or possibly a tag.
18:01:53 <flo-retina> aleth: the notification sound comes from OS X
18:02:21 <nhnt11> aleth: And you can disable it from System Preferences, fyi
18:02:33 <nhnt11> (not sure if you knew that already)
18:02:47 <dev_peace> something like a /notify ?
18:02:51 <aleth> flo-retina, nhnt11: Thanks, just checking.
18:03:23 <nhnt11> dev_peace: Care to expand on that?
18:03:47 <flo-retina> nhnt11, aleth: I think some area with my top 10 contacts visible with their status could have some use
18:04:09 <flo-retina> more or less what the awesometab provides, but in a separate window
18:04:38 <nhnt11> flo-retina: It would probably be "easy" to use the stats service api to do that in the blist
18:04:56 <flo-retina> I think there's a (couple of) bug(s) about having a "top contacts" dynamic tag automatically populated, and shown at the top of the blist with 2 lines for each contact, so that the status message is visible
18:05:21 <flo-retina> nhnt11: could be a good first bug for someone wanting to start touching something related to the stats service, yes
18:05:52 <aleth> nhnt11: Hmm, the number of times the dock icon bounces doesn't appear to be constant ;)
18:06:11 <nhnt11> aleth: I think it's once per message/notification
18:06:30 * aleth suspects he discovered some odd edge case
18:06:53 <flo-retina> aleth: I'm surprised this is related to the dock bouncing
18:07:09 <nhnt11> aleth: Now I'm curious. send me a few PMs?
18:07:10 <flo-retina> aleth: I would be less surprised if the UI was frozen (ie. message not displaying) until a sound has finished playing
18:07:54 <dev_peace> nhnt11: In several chat clients ive seen this command "/notify nhnt11". So after you come online the server pings me. 
18:07:57 <nhnt11> aleth: Definitely no lag.
18:08:24 <nhnt11> dev_peace: The /server/ pings you? What protocol is this on?
18:08:40 <nhnt11> hmm, IRC apparently :D
18:09:38 <flo-retina> nhnt11: that's just one of the ways presence is handled on IRC
18:09:39 <nhnt11> Ib probably uses that to get statuses for contacts...
18:10:00 * nhnt11 shouldn't state such presumptive things
18:10:03 <aleth> I have no idea what you are talking about.
18:10:11 <nhnt11> er, "make such presumptive statements" rather
18:11:14 <nhnt11> hmm, i couldn't find it in the rfc
18:11:32 * nhnt11 shrugs
18:11:42 <aleth> nhnt11: There are different ways to get presence on IRC, try mxr'ing for ison, watch and monitor
18:11:53 <nhnt11> aleth: I will, thanks.
18:14:05 <dev_peace> leaving for now, catchya in sometime 
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18:27:48 <nhnt11> aleth, flo-retina: What method do you guys use to search your logs at the moment?
18:27:59 <aleth> grep
18:28:56 <nhnt11> aleth: Just to be absolutely sure that I'm not missing anything, you navigate to your logdir in a terminal and grep the files for the string you want to search?
18:29:26 * nhnt11 thinks this sounds... wrong
18:30:10 <aleth> it's not the preferred UX ;)
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18:30:44 * nhnt11 just pressed Cmd+Q by mistake :S
18:31:12 <aleth> Especially as the @ and # in the filenames breaks stuff in the commandline if you're not careful...
18:31:34 <nhnt11> Ah, right.
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18:58:20 <flo-retina> aleth: I use tab completion to cd into the right folder to avoid having @ and # in my command lines
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19:00:29 <flo-retina> nhnt11: another problem your project should be fixing is memory usage
19:00:38 <flo-retina> by removing old messages once they are no longer visible
19:00:49 <aleth> I think he mentioned that in his etherpad actually.
19:00:53 <flo-retina> (once we have infinite scroll, keeping all messages in the DOM becomes pointless)
19:00:55 <nhnt11> flo-retina: I've mentioned that in that link :)
19:02:39 <flo-retina> fair enough
19:03:03 <flo-retina> nhnt11: another UI challenge is that if you display arbitrarily old messages in the conversation area, there needs to be a way for the user to find the date of the message
19:03:14 <aleth> The interesting part of the proposal will be *how* you propose to do it ;)
19:03:30 <flo-retina> aleth++
19:06:16 <nhnt11> flo-retina: An interesting solution to that is what WhatsApp does: for messages older than a day, it displays a small, unobtrusive bubble at the top that shows the date.
19:07:18 <nhnt11> aleth, flo-retina: Do you expect a very technical "how"? That makes me nervous.
19:07:47 <flo-retina> how about what?
19:08:19 <aleth> nhnt11: I would expect to see evidence that someone has thought about it for long enough to identify at least some of the challenges and propose a way to solve them
19:08:19 <flo-retina> we need the explanations to be detailed enough that we are confident you know what you are proposing of doing.
19:09:05 <aleth> nhnt11: Otherwise, how can you come up with a schedule that makes sense?
19:09:59 <nhnt11> Right, I understand that simply stating what I need to do isn't close to satisfactory
19:11:00 <nhnt11> I think I want to spend more time studying the message styles and conversation binding code before I discuss this further.
19:11:08 <aleth> That sounds like a good idea :)
19:12:47 <aleth> Nobody expects you to see all the possible pitfalls of course (like the tabbrowser thing last time), but as plenty more would probably show up while actually implementing it anyway, at least the obvious ones should be mentioned ;)
19:15:23 <nhnt11> My initial reaction to that is that seeing pitfalls isn't the same as seeing the solutions to the pitfalls. But again, that will probably be clear with more study.
19:16:08 <aleth> Sure - figuring out a solution is the hard part! :D
19:16:39 <aleth> The point is you shouldn't propose anything obviously unworkable.
19:16:44 <aleth> ;)
19:16:49 <nhnt11> :)
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19:31:10 <flo-retina> pictures from this afternoon: http://queze.net/goinfre/mamie/echasses/
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19:35:10 <aleth> something is broken there
19:35:51 <flo-retina> something broken?
19:36:08 <aleth> The photos aren't there.
19:36:17 <nhnt11> aleth: Working fine here
19:36:25 <aleth> Huh, strange.
19:37:12 <nhnt11> \o/
19:37:25 <nhnt11> Komodo apparently added a setting to disable font smoothing when I wasn't looking
19:37:40 <aleth> Pictures show up when viewed in Safari :P
19:37:56 <nhnt11> :S
19:38:29 <nhnt11> I'm on a Firefox nightly from Feb 19th :]
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20:46:56 <flo-retina> Mic: I think we need to replace the 'offline' icon with a throbber
20:48:40 <Mic> flo-retina: could be a good idea :)
20:49:12 <Mic> Maybe we could also improve something on the conversation area/participant list and chat input box.
20:49:49 <Mic> Right now it's just blank.
20:54:58 <flo-retina> what happens if you send a message during that time?
20:55:02 <flo-retina> does it fail, or is it queued?
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21:08:38 <Mic> I'd need to try.
21:08:39 <Mic> bbl
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21:30:14 * clokep would guess /notify just constantly pings ISON and the CLIENT notifies the user, not the SERVER.
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21:47:40 * nhnt11 is working on a very rough proof of concept for infinite scroll, as a learning exercise
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22:02:03 <nhnt11> \o/
22:02:36 * nhnt11 is able to automatically add 10 duplicates of the last message to the top of the conversation when he scrolls up
22:03:15 <clokep> :) Cool.
22:03:19 <clokep> Do the bubbles work?
22:03:22 <nhnt11> Yup
22:03:36 <nhnt11> There's no message grouping and it's not "pretty" but it "works"
22:03:44 <clokep> Ah, I meant the grouping, yeah.
22:03:53 <clokep> You'd probably have to remove the full bubble and add it back.
22:04:16 <nhnt11> Why?
22:04:19 <clokep> (e.g. if you have three messages from the same bubble: A, B, C)
22:04:39 <clokep> And B + C are shown, if you want to add A into it, you might need to remove B + C, then add A + B + C.
22:04:50 <clokep> I'm unsure if there's a better way to merge them.
22:04:55 <clokep> But I should not talk about message styles. ;)
22:04:57 <nhnt11> I don't think so, but I probably need to look at the code first
22:06:07 <nhnt11> As far as I can tell right now, I need to obtain the node of the first message in the bubble and do an insertBefore()
22:07:29 <nhnt11> I think the tricky bit would be to find out if the message should go into a new bubble or the current one.
22:08:29 <nhnt11> And even that shouldn't be too hard... (just compare whether the incoming message and the previous message are from the same person)
22:09:29 <clokep> Yeah, pretty much the same way we do it now, I'd imagine.
22:09:34 * nhnt11 hasn't found too much evidence of possible pitfalls or whatever from this little experiment 
22:09:43 <nhnt11> Right, just at the top of the conversation rather than the bottom.
22:09:48 <clokep> Cool. :)
22:10:47 <nhnt11> Bah, it's 3.40 am already... I wanted to start writing some implementation details for the log-searching stuff :(
22:14:45 <nhnt11> Good night
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23:35:27 <clokep_work> wnayes: Those other patches you gave differ dramatically from the patches on BZ. :(
23:35:30 <flo-retina> nhnt11: http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/today#m339 "nhnt11 hasn't found too much evidence of possible pitfalls or whatever from this little experiment" It will start getting interesting only once you take care of grouping.
23:36:19 <flo-retina> also, check that the JS used by Time Bubbles to change the spacing between Bubbles, and to group system messages isn't broken when you are adding messages "in the middle" of the conversation
23:44:35 <flo-retina> nhnt11: btw, inserting isn't the only problem. You also need to find ways to *remove* messages.
23:44:56 <flo-retina> if A+B+C are grouped, how do you remove just C (or even worse just B)?
23:45:02 <flo-retina> IMHO the answer is "you don't"
23:45:16 <flo-retina> because inserting C can have removed some of the markup that was created when inserting B.
23:46:34 <flo-retina> nhnt11: if _I_ was implementing this, I would only insert or remove full bubbles. And to avoid the annoying edge case where the whole conversation is a single bubble, I would limit the total number of messages that can be grouped into a single bubble (ie start a new bubble after 50 or 100 messages).
23:49:30 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Did you see my idea of killing full bubbles and then recreating them? I'm unsure how computer intensive this would be, of course.