#instantbird log on 03 13 2014

All times are UTC.

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03:36:34 <ecmuller> The nightlies are a little difficult to use at the moment lol
03:38:37 <ecmuller> I mean functionally everything seems to be just fine, just it's not displaying the contact list in the contact list window (it shows up in the smart tab), it's also not showing the text in the conversations
03:39:06 <ecmuller> typing in them will still work fine though
03:40:28 <ecmuller> I can't rightly recall but I think it occured with one of the previous two updates
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04:20:52 <instant-buildbot> build #2079 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [3build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/2079
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04:52:34 <mayanktg> flo-retina: thanks :)
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06:00:15 <iLobster> Good day
06:03:25 <iLobster> Anyone else have problems with version 1.6a1pre (20140312042418) ? No contacts in contacts window. No contacts  in contacts window with "Show Offline Contacts".  Windows version, OS - Windows 7 x64.
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06:19:57 <ecmuller> iLobster: I get the same
06:20:42 <ecmuller> If you open up a new conversation tab they show up
06:21:02 <ecmuller> the text in conversations doesn't show up though
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07:41:26 <Mic> Good morning
07:42:00 <Mic> ecmuller, iLobster: you're seeing bug 982820.
07:42:03 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=982820 blo, --, 1.6, florian, RESO FIXED, Error: TypeError: Constructor MutationObserver requires 'new'..
07:42:11 <Mic> It's fixed and should be in today's nightly.
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07:57:35 <ecmuller> Mic: Nice thanks, I'll let you know if it works
07:59:15 <Mic> You're out of luck if you're on Linux or Windows. There's no new nightlies today.
08:00:16 <Mic> :(
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08:06:52 <ecmuller> D:
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08:57:02 * flo-retina texted Even to ask what's up with the Windows VM
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09:00:05 <mib_8hskgs> hello, i am here right to ask something about instantbird?
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09:00:28 <Mic> mib_8hskgs: yes!
09:01:35 <Mic> I'll be afk soon but if you ask quickly I might be able to answer...
09:01:40 <mib_8hskgs> can instanbird send a message that look like email ? not a chat window. Like Psi ?
09:03:27 <Mic> I don't know Psi (it's an XMPP messenger, isn't it) but we support chats between people. Instantbird has no email capabilities if that answers your question. 
09:03:44 <Mic> Thunderbird does and also support chatting since a few versions.
09:03:49 <Mic> *supports
09:04:10 <Mic> "A message that looks like email", is that an XMPP thing?
09:04:41 <mib_8hskgs> yes it is XMPP message not chat
09:05:00 <Mic> No, then we don't.
09:05:27 <mib_8hskgs> :(
09:05:35 <flo-retina> mib_8hskgs: out of curiosity what's the use case for these messages?
09:05:47 <flo-retina> mib_8hskgs: I've never understood why people wouldn't just send an email.
09:06:08 <Mic> bbl
09:06:08 <mib_8hskgs> IM message is faster :)
09:06:25 <flo-retina> so what's wrong with a chat conversation then?
09:06:41 <ecmuller> mib_8hskgs: do you mean where the chat window vanishes like old ICQ?
09:07:03 <mib_8hskgs> i must then have a 20-30 opened windows or not
09:07:25 <ecmuller> The chat window is tabbed...
09:07:32 <flo-retina> can't you close the window after sending?
09:07:40 <Mic> mib_8hskgs: for one we support conversations in tabs and the other is that we have shortcuts for closing tabs.
09:07:41 <flo-retina> or do you mean you want to send the same message to 30 people?
09:08:22 <ecmuller> You can do group chats
09:08:26 <mib_8hskgs> sometimes yes, i need to send a message to 10 peaples
09:10:06 <ecmuller> actually, I don't think I've tried to do an xmpp group chat in instant bird
09:11:49 <mib_8hskgs> well the instantbird is only chat messenger ?
09:15:26 <mib_8hskgs> thank you for your answer, bye
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10:47:20 <flo-retina> " 	Hi Instantbird,
10:47:20 <flo-retina> Someone recently used your password to try to sign in to your Google Account instantbird@gmail.com. This person was using an application such as an email client or mobile device.
10:47:21 <flo-retina> We prevented the sign-in attempt in case this was a hijacker trying to access your account. Please review the details of the sign-in attempt: [details of my coworking space's IP/ISP/location]
10:47:21 <flo-retina> If this was you, and you are having trouble accessing your account, complete the troubleshooting steps listed at http://support.google.com/mail?p=client_login "
10:48:12 <flo-retina> Instantbird (it was my local build; this is a test account) received "<failure xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-sasl"> <not-authorized xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-sasl"/></failure>"
10:50:16 <flo-retina> apparently the only way to unlock the account is to use a web browser and log into Gmail
10:51:03 <flo-retina> and then it wants to text my phone
10:52:16 <flo-retina> and then affect accepting the verification code it texted me, it wants to text me a second "verification code" to "validate my phone number" WTF...
10:53:47 <flo-retina> and finally I land on a "welcome to your new inbox" page that takes 100% CPU, and triggers teh "unresponsive script" dialog
10:54:00 <flo-retina> If I click "continue" my browser is frozen
10:54:16 <flo-retina> if I click "stop script", I can't access my inbox
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10:55:27 <flo-retina> finally managed to access the inbox
10:55:54 <flo-retina> and I have a red scary warning bar saying "Warning: Google prevented a suspicious attempt to sign in to your account. Was it you?"
10:56:05 <flo-retina> YES, IT WAS! I've just told you THREE times!
10:57:26 <flo-retina> "Ok, got it! For your security we will continue to display these events for 2 weeks." -_-'
10:57:46 <flo-retina> anyway, </rant> :)
11:01:33 <flo-retina> FYI, there's a Windows nightly currently building.
11:02:46 <Mic> ecmuller: ^
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11:06:25 <ecmuller> Glad to hear it
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11:06:41 <dev_peac1> Where is mercurial installed by default? I installed it but on doing "dpkg-query -l 'me*' " I cant see the mercurial package anywhere
11:11:19 <dev_peac1> Mic: ^
11:11:37 <flo-retina> |which hg| should tell you
11:16:36 <dev_peac1> flo-retina: I guess mach is not installed, that is where the problem lies. "./mach mercurial setup" gives me the command not found error
11:17:16 <flo-retina> ./mozilla/mach
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11:33:29 <Mic> dev_peac1: why does it matter where Mercurial is installed?
11:34:26 <Mic> If you can use "hg" commands then it is working.
11:35:35 <Mic> hg = Mercurial.
11:35:46 <Mic> Like the abbreviation of the element Mercury.
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11:38:31 <clokep_work> aleth: review ping! :P
11:38:47 <aleth> clokep_work: done :)
11:40:30 <flo-retina> :)
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11:47:03 <aleth> ooh, new warnings...
11:47:09 * aleth has never heard of Object.create
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12:28:03 <instant-buildbot> build #1295 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [3build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/1295
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13:06:48 <instantbot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 955747 from --- to FIXED.
13:06:50 <instantbot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 955721 from --- to FIXED.
13:06:51 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=955747 maj, --, ---, clokep, RESO FIXED, Twitter support in russian locale is broken
13:06:52 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=955721 min, --, ---, clokep, RESO FIXED, Login fails using znc without setting serverPassword
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14:12:48 <ecmuller> Yay my contact list is back, well done
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14:24:56 <flo-retina> ecmuller: :)
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16:10:52 <dev_peace> flo-retina: hello
16:12:15 <dev_peace> could you like brief me about https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=955719 and where to get started, which folders to look into. I figured out that all the irc code rests inside /im/protocols/irc/
16:12:19 <instantbot> Bug 955719 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [a11y] Add accessible labels to participant list icons
16:12:50 <flo-retina> look at im/content/conversation.xml
16:13:03 <flo-retina> the code that displays the list of participant is in this file
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16:24:31 <aleth> dev_peace: If you fix this, it has to work for all protocols, not just IRC.
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16:28:25 <flo-retina> aleth: what's the expected UI?
16:28:47 <flo-retina> aleth: or would this be only for screen readers?
16:28:58 <aleth> flo-retina: I guess there is no change for sighted users, it just needs an aria label or something
16:29:25 <dev_peace> aleth: how are screen readers different from normal users?
16:29:25 <flo-retina> aleth: these icons are very confusing for sighted users too
16:29:37 <flo-retina> aleth: there's no way to know what they mean, if you don't ask in #instantbird ;)
16:29:53 <aleth> flo-retina: Putting something in the tooltip would be a different bug though, not a11y ;)
16:30:11 <flo-retina> aleth: but would have the same need of finding reasonable strings for each icon
16:30:34 <aleth> Well, if dev_peace wants to fix both, he is welcome@!
16:31:22 <dev_peace> aleth: yes, I'll surely try, just that I need some guidance on what and where to search for
16:32:06 <aleth> dev_peace: flo-retina has already pointed you at the code
16:32:17 <aleth> The DOM Inspector addon may also be helpful
16:32:29 <dev_peace> aleth: yes I am looking into file
16:32:50 <Mook_as> Oh. This is that build with the broken output :|
16:33:03 <dev_peace> aleth: but who are screen readers?
16:33:34 <nhnt11> dev_peace: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_reader
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16:36:28 <dev_peace> nhnt11: Thanks :)
16:46:54 <aleth> dev_peace: In case the discussion wasn't clear, putting a tooltip on the icon would be automatically accessible too.
16:50:29 <dev_peace> aleth: I am just making rough UI to show 
16:51:00 <aleth> dev_peace: You can just write a patch and when it works, attach it to the bug
16:51:32 <aleth> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/XUL/Attribute/tooltiptext
16:54:53 <dev_peace> aleth: http://imgur.com/BS52w44 something like this ? I havent done it on the tootip yet
16:55:26 <aleth> Hmm, that's another idea I guess.
16:55:46 <aleth> I'm not sure there is enough room depending on the nick though.
16:56:10 <aleth> I would recommend starting with a tooltip as it's much easier than your suggestion.
16:56:20 <aleth> i.e. a tooltip on the icon only.
16:56:34 <aleth> We already have a tooltip on the nick.
16:57:47 <dev_peace> aleth: okay, but that will be a different bug right ?
16:58:52 <aleth> dev_peace: As I explained earlier, screen readers can read the tooltip text as a label.
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17:02:50 <dev_peace> aleth: http://imgur.com/hUBE4iP check this out :P
17:03:24 <aleth> Yes?
17:03:49 <dev_peace> something similar right?
17:04:23 <aleth> Yes, you could also put it there.
17:04:36 <aleth> Sorry, gtg.
17:04:53 <dev_peace> yes sure, ill read the link you gave till then
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17:08:06 <douglaswth> 1
17:08:22 <douglaswth> oops
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17:15:12 <aleth> dev_peace: If you want to put it into the existing tooltip, you won't need that link, you'll have to look at the code for the existing tooltip.
17:16:07 <dev_peace> aleth: yes I am grepping for words in the tooltip like "Registered", "Connected to" to find the file
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18:08:19 <dev_peace> flo-retina: Where are the labels in the tooltip like "Account", "Name", "Connected to" located ? 
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18:11:44 <clokep|[][][]> dev_peace: Use mxr to find things like that.
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18:12:00 <clokep|[][][]> arlolra: So generally our workflow is to attach WIPs / use pastebin to get feedback about parts of code.
18:12:28 <clokep|[][][]> It's really nice to have the whole conversation in a single place instead of split over email , etc.
18:13:25 <arlolra> clokep|[][][]: ok, so I should open a bug and put links to github commits (which seems equivalent to pastebin)
18:13:58 <clokep|[][][]> For something like this I'd just talk to us on IRC.
18:14:01 <clokep|[][][]> Shorten the feedback loop.
18:14:15 <clokep|[][][]> Can you please link to a specific line of a revision though? I don't find the changeset link useful.
18:15:56 <dev_peace> clokep|[][][]: http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/ this right?
18:16:02 <arlolra> sure. I emailed cause it was late last night
18:16:12 <clokep|[][][]> dev_peace: Yes.
18:16:15 <clokep|[][][]> arlolra: Sure thing.
18:16:17 <clokep|[][][]> I replied tohugh. :)
18:16:23 <clokep|[][][]> I don't understand the question. ;)
18:16:44 <clokep|[][][]> dev_peace: You probably only want to search in im/ though.
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18:19:11 <clokep|[][][]> Fallen: You should be all set in tomorrow's nightly. :)
18:19:37 <arlolra> clokep|[][][]: the question was just that the example I was supposed to be following doesn't work anymore and I wanted to know if what I did to get it to work was correctly using the api
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18:21:11 <clokep|[][][]> arlolra: Please be more specific about "doesn't work anymore".
18:21:52 <dev_peace> clokep|[][][]: This is nice, but like I am still not able to find where the labels are located 
18:22:03 <arlolra> clokep|[][][]: generates lots of errors and prevents conversations from happening
18:22:23 <clokep|[][][]> arlolra: How are you testing these things btw? Are you using a nightly build, your own build?
18:22:27 <clokep|[][][]> Nightlies were broken yesterday. :)
18:22:58 <clokep|[][][]> dev_peace: http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/search?find=%2Fchat%2F&string=Connected+to
18:23:08 <arlolra> no, I'm using the latest stable (1.5) and adding my extensions as follows
18:23:09 <arlolra> pwd > ~/Library/Application\ Support/Instantbird/Profiles/<profile>/extensions/ctypes-otr@timb
18:25:00 <clokep|[][][]> OK.
18:25:02 <dev_peace> clokep|[][][]: I was looking inside /im 
18:25:10 <clokep|[][][]> dev_peace: Yes, look in both always. :)
18:25:21 <clokep|[][][]> arlolra: OK, can you tell me what the errors were?
18:25:31 <arlolra> sure, once sec. I'll reproduce it
18:27:02 <clokep|[][][]> Sweet. :)
18:30:31 <Fallen> clokep|[][][]: cool thanks :) Do you want to keep that znc account or should I remove it?
18:30:53 <arlolra> clokep|[][][]: so, the first one is illegal operation on wrappednative proto. it's trying to increment the id. doing something like get id() this._conv.id gets around that.
18:31:53 <clokep|[][][]> Fallen: If I could keep it for now that'd be great. :)
18:32:07 <clokep|[][][]> arlolra: Can you pastebin the error message?
18:32:12 <clokep|[][][]> You can copy from the error console.
18:33:08 <arlolra> clokep|[][][]: http://cl.ly/image/0s310r2g2s33
18:34:30 <arlolra> http://pastebin.com/H1bkMp2i
18:35:29 <Fallen> clokep|[][][]: sure, np. If you are not using it on a daily basis (i.e for your main nick), maybe you can set it to disconnect from irc when you disconnect.
18:36:01 <clokep|[][][]> Fallen: roger.
18:36:12 <clokep|[][][]> arlolra: I'm not sure. :-\ Hopefully Florian knows. He should be back soon.
18:36:57 <arlolra> clokep|[][][]: no problem. anyways, I fixed all those errors here https://github.com/arlolra/ctypes-otr/blob/master/bootstrap.js
18:37:58 <clokep|[][][]> arlolra: How'd you fix them? :P
18:38:04 <clokep|[][][]> Was that the changeset you linked to?
18:38:40 <arlolra> oh, it was just the commit where pushed those lines to my bootstrap.js
18:38:41 * clokep|[][][] hates that API.
18:38:55 <clokep|[][][]> I feel like it's hacking around part of our API instead of us providing a real API. :-\
18:39:09 * arlolra feels the same way
18:39:15 <arlolra> clokep|[][][]: I read the source :)
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18:41:11 <arlolra> clokep|[][][]: what I need to figure out is when I alter what's put in sendMsg(), it goes to both the UI and sends to conversation partner. those have to be different if one is going to be encrypted
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18:43:07 <clokep|[][][]> arlolra: Yes, they do. It probably means we need a better API. ;)
18:43:23 <clokep|[][][]> Or ask aleth or flo-retina where to integrate better...
18:43:31 <clokep|[][][]> I don't know the conversation code insanely well.
18:44:31 <flo-retina> clokep|[][][]: I think the illegal operation on WrappedNative is the same error that breaks "not today!"
18:47:26 <flo-retina> looks likes this needs a better new API, indeed.
18:50:20 <flo-retina> you may want to change this sendMsg function: http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/chat/components/src/imConversations.js#273
18:51:45 <flo-retina> looks like rot13 was decoding the messages before displaying them. Including for the messages sent by the user. Is this something possible with otr, or do you have to display the original messages?
18:52:10 <arlolra> flo-retina: original message
18:52:27 <flo-retina> is it _possible_?
18:52:42 <arlolra> you don't have the decryption key
18:53:04 <flo-retina> ok
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18:53:16 <flo-retina> then you'll need some changes to have a different code path for outgoing messages
18:53:49 <arlolra> what would that look like?
18:53:54 <flo-retina> it should also resolve a few ugliness we had in some prpls about handling of the local alias.
18:54:13 <flo-retina> arlolra: that sendMsg function would insert a message directly to the conversation
18:54:26 <flo-retina> and the prpl would stop inserting messages for outgoing messages.
18:54:56 <arlolra> ok
18:56:41 <flo-retina> eg you would remove lines 246-255 at http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/chat/protocols/xmpp/xmpp.jsm#246
18:57:43 <flo-retina> hmm, I'm not sure that's possible for twitter :-S
18:58:05 <flo-retina> arlolra: am I right in assuming OTR is completely irrelevant on twitter?
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18:58:46 <arlolra> flo-retina: no, you can have a DM conversation that would make sense
18:59:32 <flo-retina> we don't support DMs currently
18:59:53 <flo-retina> arlolra: the problem with twitter is that the server transforms the message we send, to include hashtags, mentions, shorten URLs, etc... and sends back to us the transformed version.
19:00:10 <flo-retina> arlolra: so displaying what we are sending as being the message would be incorrect.
19:00:37 <arlolra> I see
19:02:51 <clokep|[][][]> We should support that, yes.
19:04:39 <flo-retina> clokep|[][][]: is "that" OTR on twitter DMs?
19:05:10 <clokep|[][][]> flo-retina: If it isn't insane, yes. :)
19:05:14 <arlolra> well, if you're using OTR, you don't want your plaintext seen by the server just to linkify it. maybe have a short path that's enabled for OTR to skip that step
19:05:18 <clokep|[][][]> But we don't support twitter DMs...so it's kind of irrelevent.
19:08:19 <flo-retina> arlolra: isn't OTR changing message sizes when encrypting? That would make using twitter kinda painful
19:08:40 <flo-retina> (because the server would just reject some messages when they are "too long")
19:09:13 <arlolra> flo-retina: it has a fragmentation setting that can adjust the messages to the predefined size (so 140 or whatever it is for twitter)
19:09:56 <flo-retina> on IRC, is OTR usables for channels, or only private messages?
19:10:21 <clokep|[][][]> Only private on all protocols.
19:10:35 <arlolra> it's a 1-to-1 protocol
19:10:45 <arlolra> the channel is kind of irrelevant
19:10:58 <arlolra> as long as you can authenticate the other side
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19:11:22 <flo-retina> currently I think we have the same code path for outgoing messages both in channels and private conversations
19:12:35 <arlolra> that's fine, i htink. what needed is just the separation of what's displayed to the user and what's sent over the wire
19:13:12 <flo-retina> we also need to know if it's the conversation service or the prpl that's responsible for displaying the messages sent by the user
19:14:05 <arlolra> can you elaborate on that a bit?
19:14:13 <flo-retina> the twitter case.
19:14:37 <arlolra> right, but what's the difference between a conversation service and a prpl
19:14:40 <arlolra> sorry
19:15:09 <flo-retina> a prpl (protocol plugin) implements a protocol (eg. irc or xmpp). The conversations service is this file: http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/chat/components/src/imConversations.js
19:16:15 <arlolra> k, thanks
19:16:57 <arlolra> having the conversation service be responsible seems kind of scary in the otr case. leaking plaintext would be bad
19:17:10 <flo-retina> uh?
19:17:15 <flo-retina> why would that leak anything?
19:17:34 <flo-retina> or did you mean "having the prpl be responsible seems scary" and typoed?
19:18:51 <dev_peace> flo-retina: How do I fetch ranks to be displayed ? I got this http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/mail/components/im/content/imconversation.xml#801
19:19:07 <arlolra> I think I was just all around confused. disregard that statement
19:22:46 <clokep|[][][]> dev_peace: buddy.op, etc.
19:22:51 <clokep|[][][]> Look 4 lines down. ;)
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19:26:32 <dev_peace> clokep|[][][]: I can directly use var "Image" 
19:30:30 <clokep|[][][]> dev_peace: Then I don't understand your question.
19:31:30 <dev_peace> clokep|[][][]: image = "half operator" can i directly use this variable image as a value for the new Ranking ?
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19:35:18 <clokep|[][][]> dev_peace: I don't understand your question. :-\
19:35:34 <clokep|[][][]> Directly use it for what?
19:36:07 <dev_peace> clokep|[][][]: for the value of rank ( i.e operator, founder, etc )
19:36:47 <clokep|[][][]> buddy.op/halfOp/voice have those flags in it.
19:38:19 <clokep|[][][]> I'm sorry I don't really understand what you're asking. :-\
19:39:53 <EionRobb> clokep|[][][]: that's a lot of [].... are you being obj-c today?
19:40:53 <dev_peace> clokep|[][][]: okay so now I created a label "Rank" and now I want to assign the value to it which i got from http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/mail/components/im/content/imconversation.xml#805
19:40:53 <dev_peace> How do i do that ?
19:43:13 <clokep|[][][]> EionRobb: Just like testing my protocols. ;)
19:43:25 <clokep|[][][]> dev_peace: Pastebin your code please. I think it'll be easier for me to understand.
19:43:42 <EionRobb> clokep|[][][]: should I get hasOwnProperty to join #instantbird again? :)
19:43:58 <clokep|[][][]> EionRobb: That was fixed a really long time ago. :P
19:44:02 <EionRobb> :)
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19:44:06 <clokep|[][][]> (And might be banned on moznet anyway.)
19:44:20 <EionRobb> seems to be connected ok at th emoment
19:46:47 * clokep|[][][] is now known as clokep____
19:49:55 <dev_peace> clokep____: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/4577061 and http://pastebin.mozilla.org/4577096 this is what I have figured out so far
19:53:19 <clokep____> dev_peace: Can you pastebin a diff?
19:56:30 <dev_peace> clokep____: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/4577147 there you go captain !
20:01:22 <flo-retina> arlolra: how complicated is the libotr API? How would you feel about compiling the library into asm.js with emscripten?
20:03:02 <arlolra> flo-retina: that's already been done but we don't want that. there's no guarantee that operations will be performed in constant time
20:03:32 <flo-retina> can you expand on that?
20:04:47 <arlolra> in what direction? why constant time operations are important for crypto? or why the vm won't guarantee that behaviour?
20:04:56 <flo-retina> both
20:05:22 <arlolra> well, there's whole branch of research on timing attacks
20:05:24 <Mic> hmm, timing attacks?
20:05:30 <Mic> Ah, exactly :)
20:06:54 <arlolra> but the second part, whatevermonkey will probably do clever things to speed up the code that expose you to the former
20:07:26 <-- deOmega has quit (Quit: So easy...but yet complicated.)
20:07:30 <flo-retina> so why would it matter that the time isn't deterministic? I would expect the network times to deliver a message to vary much more.
20:09:47 <clokep____> dev_peace: Wouldn't you want to make those changes globally not specifically for each protocol? I'm not sure if that's even possible. :-\
20:10:00 <clokep____> dev_peace: Anyway, you'd have to create a function which takes the buddy and returns a string.
20:10:18 <clokep____> And add a rank into the set of tooltip info.
20:11:02 <arlolra> flo-retina: I guess that assumes you've got a network attacker
20:11:37 <dev_peace> clokep____: how can I test it locally ?
20:11:52 <arlolra> I'm really not an expert in this area but there're plenty of good resources about why timing characteristics are important to crypto
20:11:55 <arlolra> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVXP8git7A4
20:12:32 <flo-retina> arlolra: I don't see the point of protecting against people who already have access to the local machine; so yes, I assume attackers are remote.
20:13:00 <arlolra> what if they're just listening to your computer with a parabolic microphone or something
20:13:09 <flo-retina> arlolra: and the part that's the least deterministic here for the timing is: how long the user keeps on typing before sending.
20:14:00 <arlolra> flo-retina: again, I'm really not an expert but the people who are feel that it's essential. is the point of this conversation that you don't want to distribute a binary?
20:14:37 <flo-retina> arlolra: I'm not against distributing a binary. But distributing a .js version is dramatically easier if you want people to try your thing as an add-on.
20:15:15 <flo-retina> and also, running the code within a JS engines dramatically reduces the likeliness of crashes, and other flaws that are common in binary code.
20:15:35 <arlolra> flo-retina: I implemented the protocol in js https://github.com/arlolra/otr
20:16:18 <clokep____> Regardless, the API needs to be updated and other things changed.
20:18:13 <arlolra> flo-retina: which people are going to try it? testers?
20:18:57 <flo-retina> arlolra: I don't know. For Instantbird we could ship libotr by default. I don't know if that's wanted for Thunderbird.
20:20:07 <arlolra> I see. you make a good point about the ffi barrier.
20:20:45 <arlolra> flo-retina: this is why sshagarwal is working on an nss implementation I think?
20:21:32 <arlolra> if we do the other bits right, the library can we swapped out
20:21:40 <flo-retina> arlolra: from what I've heard, crypto code implemented by people who don't really understand crypto is usually vulnerable... so I was thinking an asm.js version of the existing libotr would be more reliable. Maybe that's a wrong assumption.
20:22:06 <dev_peace> clokep____: In XML whatever we write in <body> tag, how do we fetch it in a .js file ? Here in this situation I want to fetch the ranks for  http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/mail/components/im/content/imconversation.xml#801 
20:22:40 <flo-retina> what's ffi in this context?
20:22:51 <arlolra> flo-retina: ctypes
20:23:10 <arlolra> the above sounds right but if we can use libotr, we should
20:24:01 <flo-retina> arlolra: so the part I still have trouble understanding is: is it more secure to use libotr through jsctypes, or compiled as asm.js?
20:26:02 <clokep____> dev_peace: That question doesn't make any sense. :-\
20:26:15 <clokep____> I need to do some work though, sorry.
20:26:21 <arlolra> flo-retina: that's a good question. I don't have a definite answer either way
20:26:47 <dev_peace> clokep____: okay carry on
20:27:35 <arlolra> flo-retina: https://github.com/mnaamani/otr4-em
20:27:47 <flo-retina> arlolra: my initial assumption was that both would be equivalent, so whatever's the most convenient to implement (or maintain!) should be preferred. But you made me doubt when you started talking about timing attacks.
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20:29:05 <arlolra> flo-retina: I'd like to proceed with the ctypes library. I'm not sure what the source of randomness is in the library above
20:29:18 <arlolra> that's definitely something that would need auditing
20:29:50 <flo-retina> arlolra: I was just wondering because I've just spent a week working with emscripten for a different project ;).
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20:30:06 <flo-retina> (bug 971047 if you are curious)
20:30:09 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=971047 nor, --, ---, florian, ASSI, Import the CLD language detection library
20:30:55 <arlolra> flo-retina: I've contributed to it in the past https://github.com/kripken/emscripten/commits?author=arlolra
20:31:18 <flo-retina> :)
20:34:35 <clokep____> arlolra: So are you clear what API change you'll need?
20:34:58 <arlolra> I'm not clear on who will be doing it
20:36:38 <arlolra> but yes, I need a way to send a different message to the UI as to the wire
20:37:39 <dev_peace> how do I test my code locally ?
20:38:40 <Mic> dev_peace: compile it & run it, must likely.
20:38:42 <Mic> *most
20:39:04 <clokep____> arlolra: You will be.
20:39:22 <dev_peace> Mic: I am solving my first bug, a little stuck right now
20:39:53 <Mic> dev_peace: what's the problem that's blocking you?
20:40:57 <flo-retina> arlolra: the best we can do to help you is probably answer your questions and try to have a fast feedback loop, but we are unlikely to have time in the near future to implement these changes ourselves.
20:42:01 <dev_peace> Mic: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=955719 This is the bug I am solving and this is what I have done so far  http://pastebin.mozilla.org/4577147
20:42:03 <instantbot> Bug 955719 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [a11y] Add accessible labels to participant list icons
20:43:08 <Mic> dev_peace: what do you want to do next (i.e. where are you stuck)?
20:43:32 <arlolra> clokep____: ok, in that case, I'll need it spelled out a little more on what changes you'd like to see and where
20:43:53 <arlolra> flo-retina: no problem. as long as you're open to the changes and I'm not going to have to fight you to get them in
20:44:22 <flo-retina> as long as the changes make sense, there shouldn't be a problem :)
20:44:42 <arlolra> ha, well, then I need guidance in what changes to make
20:45:26 <arlolra> do I need to recompile when editing js?
20:45:37 <dev_peace> Mic: I want to fetch the ranks of Buddies ( I am stuck there )
20:45:38 <flo-retina> usually not, sometimes yes
20:45:44 <flo-retina> depends on the file
20:45:46 <clokep____> arlolra: So I think flo-retina already mentioned we'll need different paths for displaying to the screen and sending over the wire?
20:46:07 <clokep____> Does that make sense and we need to discuss in more detail how to do that?
20:46:29 <arlolra> yes, more detail in how to do that
20:46:38 <Mic> dev_peace: have a look how that's done on the participant list. You'll need to find the place where the images are set on the listitems.
20:48:13 <flo-retina> arlolra: start by filing a bug on bugzilla
20:48:42 <arlolra> component instantbird::conversation?
20:48:49 <flo-retina> yes
20:49:22 <dev_peace> Mic: http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/mail/components/im/content/imconversation.xml#801
20:49:49 <Mic> imconversation.xml is Thunderbird code.
20:50:11 <Mic> You'll want to have a look at /im/.../conversation.xml
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20:50:52 <Mic> Beside that it's the right spot, yes :)
20:51:01 <Mic> https://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/im/content/conversation.xml#1130
20:51:46 <Mic> Track back where this method is called and what's fed into it.
20:52:07 <dev_peace> Mic: Now now here is my confusion, this is an xml file, how do I fetch data from this to a Javascript file
20:52:32 <Mic> You don't ;)
20:52:46 <Mic> You'll copy the pattern that you are seeing there.
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20:53:25 <Mic> Some object has "founder"/"op"/... properties that you can read to get the information you're looking for.
20:55:48 <Mic> The properties are on the chatBuddy field of the object being passed to setBuddyAttributes.
20:56:09 <Mic> setBuddyAttributes is called from here: https://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/im/content/conversation.xml#1267
20:56:25 <dev_peace> Mic: https://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/im/content/conversation.xml#1148
20:56:57 <instantbot> New Instantbird - Conversation bug 983347 filed by arlolra@gmail.com.
20:56:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=983347 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Need different paths for displaying to the screen and sending over the wire
20:57:20 <Mic> It's a listitem being passed to this method. The listitem has a custom field called chatBuddy, which is set a few lines above: https://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/im/content/conversation.xml#1264
20:57:22 <dev_peace> Mic: sorry wrong link pasted
20:57:35 <Mic> It's set to ...
20:57:37 <Mic> You get the idea?
20:57:38 <arlolra> flo-retina: clokep____: ^^^^
20:57:50 <dev_peace> Mic: wait ill answer that
20:59:26 <dev_peace> Mic: aBuddy
20:59:42 <Mic> OK and where's it coming from?
21:04:50 <dev_peace> aBuddy is an object
21:06:05 <Mic> The point is what kind of object it is. And we're going back and back until we find the answer.
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21:07:09 <clokep____> arlolra: OK, good start. ;)
21:07:18 <Mic> Well, you're doing that ;)
21:07:18 <clokep____> So...Florian pointed out the area of code we need to look at.
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21:09:21 <clokep____> arlolra: (So hopefully flo-retina will correct me if Is ay crazy things), in http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/chat/components/src/imConversations.js#273 you'll want to 1. display the text to the UI conversation, 2. encrypt the text, 3. pass the encrypted text to this.target.sendMsg
21:11:55 <dev_peace> Mic: It is a parameter to many methods like addBuddy, etc
21:12:52 <arlolra> clokep____: ok, so the conversation service is the right place to do this. how does the text get delivered to the ui now?
21:14:51 <arlolra> target.sendMsg goes to the prpl and invokes writeMessage
21:15:37 <flo-retina> I showed you some code in the xmpp prpl that needs to be removed
21:15:46 <flo-retina> it actually needs to be moved to the conversation service
21:15:56 <arlolra> ok
21:16:04 <arlolra> https://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/chat/protocols/xmpp/xmpp.jsm#246
21:16:09 <arlolra> that's what I was looking at
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21:20:58 <flo-retina> arlolra: what clokep said is a very high level version of what needs to happen. The step 2 ("encrypt the text") is a bit more complicated.
21:21:22 <flo-retina> You need to add there an API that will let other components (eg. your OTR code) modify messages.
21:21:42 <clokep____> flo-retina: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/protocols/irc/irc.js#164 :(
21:21:45 <flo-retina> the conversations service shouldn't contain anything that's OTR specific
21:21:53 <clokep____> IRC has specific proto code in there to how it's to be displayed... :-\
21:21:55 <arlolra> flo-retina: right
21:22:39 <mayanktg> flo-retina: what might be the major milestones of the WebRTC project? I'm trying to prepare the schedule again, but having problem deciding how can the project be divided in form of parts.
21:22:46 <flo-retina> clokep____: what's the problem with this code?
21:23:17 <mayanktg> sorry for interrupting in b/w. :(
21:23:32 <flo-retina> mayanktg: your application needs to show me that you have a good understanding of this. So I'm afraid you need to figure it out, and we will only let you know if you are doing well or are getting off track.
21:24:17 <mayanktg> flo-retina: ok :) got it!
21:24:43 <clokep____> flo-retina: I guess...this would separate what's actually sent from what we display, that irks me slightly.
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21:28:37 <dev_peace> Mic: Does it trace back to add
21:28:52 <flo-retina> clokep____: I don't see anything around line 164 that actually touches the message text. Is there something I'm missing?
21:28:52 <dev_peace> * addBuddy.js
21:29:10 <Mic> dev_peace: no, I don't think so.
21:29:26 <flo-retina> mayanktg: you shouldn't think about the milestones and schedule before you have a good understanding of what code needs to be written.
21:29:44 <flo-retina> mayanktg: so the first thing you should do is list all the things you will code
21:30:33 <Mic> dev_peace: addBuddy is a method in conversation.xml which is called from other places. Find them and find out where the buddy object is coming from there.
21:30:42 <clokep____> flo-retina: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/protocols/irc/irc.js#134
21:31:21 <mayanktg> flo-retina: yes, I am doing that only ..thanks :)
21:31:24 <Mic> dev_peace: searching in conversation.xml will do. You don't need to use mxr on all of comm-central btw.
21:31:59 <flo-retina> clokep____: arlolra said OTR can split the messages in fragment of predefined size. I kinda assumed we would send each fragment as one message, and it wouldn't interfere with this.
21:32:08 <flo-retina> clokep____: CTCP stuff may be 'interesting' though.
21:32:58 <clokep____> I disagree.
21:34:25 <dev_peace> Mic: http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/im/content/conversation.xml#1840 it is called here
21:34:32 <clokep____> flo-retina: I'm concerned about the NON-OTR situation.
21:34:48 <clokep____> We splat a really long IRC message to OUR screen as one message, btu then we send it to everyone else as 15 messages.
21:34:59 <arlolra> I think he's saying that you can't move this logic to a unified place in the conversation service because prpls differ in their behaviour
21:36:06 <Mic> dev_peace: yes! Do you know what's happening in the method? Have a look at its name and ask if needed.
21:37:32 <flo-retina> clokep____: indeed, that's annoying.
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21:39:46 <dev_peace> Mic: It adds a buddy to the list of partcipants
21:40:35 <Mic> There's lots of other stuff going on in this large switch statement.
21:41:04 <Mic> Check the comment at the header of the method and look it up on MDN.
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21:41:24 <flo-retina> clokep____: do you have a suggestion?
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21:42:44 <clokep____> flo-retina: Not sure. :-\ Ask the prpl to first construct messages? Or something? :P Idk.
21:44:33 <flo-retina> clokep____: what I have in mind right now: the API letting 'stuff' modify messages before they are sent will have in its return value an object that will contain the modified message, but also a flag indicating if the modified version or the original one should be shown in the conversation.
21:44:33 <flo-retina> If the original message should be shown, then the conversation service prints the message itself. If the modified message should be shown, then it's up to the prpl to display the message.
21:45:18 <flo-retina> btw, I find this stuff easier to think about if I have concrete examples of use cases in mind. So the examples I use are OTR and a pastebin add-on/feature.
21:45:31 <flo-retina> in the case of a pastebin feature, we would want to show the modified message
21:45:47 <clokep____> flo-retina: That sounds not insane.
21:46:04 <flo-retina> it seems over complicated. But I can't come up with something nicer right now :-S.
21:46:57 <arlolra> what function displays the message
21:47:02 <arlolra> currently
21:47:15 <arlolra> and where does that get called
21:47:58 <dev_peace> Mic: The basic purpose of the observe method is to observe notifications
21:48:45 <Mic> Yes! So there was a "chat-buddy-add" notification received when the addBuddy-code is called.
21:49:05 <Mic> aSubject is an object that can be passed along with the notification.
21:49:28 <Mic> Next step is to mxr "chat-buddy-add".
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21:51:22 <dev_peace> Mic: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/XPCOM_Interface_Reference/nsIObserver
21:51:35 <Mic> Yes, that's the docs for it.
21:51:36 <dev_peace> Mic: http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/im/content/conversation.xml#1837
21:52:31 <Mic> Look with mxr for "chat-buddy-add", but in the directory /chat/ this time.
21:53:36 <dev_peace> http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/chat/protocols/irc/irc.js#332
21:53:57 <flo-retina> arlolra: http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/chat/components/src/imConversations.js#244 seems to get called
21:54:26 <flo-retina> arlolra: an example of how a prpl calls it will make more sense http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/chat/modules/jsProtoHelper.jsm#491
21:54:50 <flo-retina> and the .conversation setter is http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/chat/modules/jsProtoHelper.jsm#401 which fires the "new-text" notification
21:55:52 <Mic> dev_peace: that's how a protocol plugin is using it.
21:57:00 <Mic> dev_peace: https://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/search?string=chat-buddy-add&find=/chat/
21:57:15 <dev_peace> Mic: Just one word. AWESOME
21:57:30 <Mic> It's mentioned in a comment in an IDL file.
21:57:40 <Mic> https://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/chat/components/public/prplIConversation.idl#123
21:57:58 <arlolra> flo-retina: are you happy with what you outlined above or do you want more time to think about it before I start anything?
21:58:35 <Mic> dev_peace: there's a list of attributes at the end of that file...
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21:59:23 <dev_peace> Mic: yes, yes I saw that op,halfop, etc
21:59:42 <Mic> So you need to get the information from an prplIConvChatBuddy object.
22:01:07 <flo-retina> arlolra: I think some details will still need to be figured out, but the overall thing shouldn't change much. It's difficult to think about the details until we see the code and look at the specific edge cases.
22:01:47 <arlolra> ok, I added the above to the bug at https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=983347#c1
22:01:49 <instantbot> Bug 983347 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Need different paths for displaying to the screen and sending over the wire
22:01:57 <Mic> dev_peace: you get an idea what you need to do to solve problems like that?
22:02:32 <dev_peace> Mic: yes I am slowly understanding the code structure
22:02:42 <arlolra> flo-retina: I'll work on that for a bit. if anything, it'll give me a chance to familiarize myself with the code
22:02:48 <arlolra> thanks
22:03:40 <flo-retina> arlolra: right. Don't hesitate to attach a work in progress patch and request feedback.
22:03:57 <arlolra> will do. gotta run
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22:04:06 <flo-retina> arlolra: details like matching the coding style are more painful if you get the comments when you have a large patch. If we catch them early you can just adapt easily
22:05:26 * Mic really needs to set a keyword for a chat|im search on mxr...
22:05:53 <dev_peace> Mic: and should'nt it be "voice" there instead of "voiced" in .idl file
22:06:52 <flo-retina> Mic: I need that too!
22:07:04 * dev_peace Mic could use CSM ( chat/im Search on Mxr )
22:07:06 <flo-retina> and on bugzilla!
22:07:25 <dev_peace> Mic: :P
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22:11:14 <dev_peace> Mic: so tracing back is essential ( Lesson learnt )
22:11:39 <Mic> As long as your new to some code it is.
22:12:08 <Mic> I'm not very familiar with the tooltip code, I'd need to have a look myself if and how that's going to work.
22:12:55 <Mic> brb
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22:14:04 <dev_peace> sure I'll be here, ping when free
22:14:35 <Mic> I'll be afk for a while now by the way.
22:21:31 <dev_peace> Mic: when will you be back, if I may ask?
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22:23:07 <TJ> hi, the most recent version of Instant bird I updated to broke sounds.
22:23:25 <TJ> instulling the last stable build from the website has fixed it
22:26:32 <flo-retina> TJ: was the broken version today, or yesterday's nightly?
22:26:41 <flo-retina> yesterday's nightly was known to be broken
22:26:55 <TJ> it was an update which installed yesterday morning
22:27:09 <flo-retina> today's nightly should work then :)
22:27:27 <TJ> alright. thanks-- also i've been curious are there any efforts under way to support skype?
22:27:40 <flo-retina> I'm just surprised you mention that sound was broken. It was indeed broken, but there were much more noticeable brokenness (empty contact list, sent messages not disaplayed, etc...)
22:28:00 <TJ> interestingly that was the only issue which I had
22:28:18 <flo-retina> TJ: skype is a closed protocol. There's no way to support it unless they decide to expose an API. And they have recently deprecated the limited APIs they had.
22:28:19 <TJ> when I loaded  it the first time I couldn't navigate using a screen reader, but after a reboot it mostly worked
22:28:59 <Mic> dev_peace: I'll be busy for a while now. I can't tell for how long yet.
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22:30:57 <dev_peace> Mic: okay, no issues, we can do this when you're free. I'll keep researching and prepare a rough draft of the proposal and mail you. Is that fine with you?
22:31:35 <Mic> dev_peace: make sure to use team@instantbird.org when you send emails.
22:32:17 <dev_peace> okay mailing list I suppose
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22:44:19 <flo-retina> dev_peace: team@instantbird.org is our private mailing list.
22:45:11 <dev_peace> flo-retina: Got it, will be sending proposal v 1.0 soon 
22:45:58 <dev_peace> but in the first version I should concentrate more on the functionalities than work distribution ( timeline )
22:52:46 <dev_peace> flo-retina: should I make a wiki page of the proposal or should I make a doc in google drive?
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22:54:11 <flo-retina> whatever works for you
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