#instantbird log on 01 18 2014

All times are UTC.

00:01:37 <-- IRCMonkey41466 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.5a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
00:02:33 <-- hadi has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.5 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
00:25:07 <-- igorko has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.5 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
00:59:29 <-- Tonnes has quit (Connection reset by peer)
01:00:14 --> Tonnes has joined #instantbird
01:00:16 <-- Tonnes has quit (Connection reset by peer)
01:01:13 --> Tonnes has joined #instantbird
01:56:31 <-- Mook_as has quit (Quit: Mook_as)
03:11:17 --> Mook has joined #instantbird
04:48:55 <-- gerv has quit (Ping timeout)
04:54:46 --> gerv has joined #instantbird
05:13:09 <instant-buildbot> build #1700 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Failure [4failed shell_3]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/1700
05:13:21 <-- qheaden has quit (Ping timeout)
05:16:03 --> FireFly_TB has joined #instantbird
05:20:49 --> qheaden has joined #instantbird
05:32:15 <-- FireFly_TB has quit (Quit: FireFly_TB)
05:38:38 <-- EionRobb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
07:20:54 <-- Mook has quit (Quit: Mook)
07:24:10 --> GeKo has joined #instantbird
07:44:14 --> mconley has joined #instantbird
07:49:43 <instant-buildbot> build #1235 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Failure [4failed shell_3]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/1235
08:30:55 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird
08:42:47 <-- mconley has quit (Input/output error)
08:43:46 --> hadi has joined #instantbird
09:39:49 --> gerard-majax_ has joined #instantbird
09:48:18 <-- gerard-majax_ has quit (Ping timeout)
09:59:32 --> jb has joined #instantbird
10:58:55 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout)
10:59:05 --> jb has joined #instantbird
11:08:23 <-- EionRobb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
11:40:33 --> igorko has joined #instantbird
11:45:55 <-- igorko has quit (Ping timeout)
11:46:16 --> igorko has joined #instantbird
11:52:48 <-- Tonnes has quit (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 26.0/20131205075310])
11:55:46 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout)
11:56:04 --> Tonnes has joined #instantbird
12:05:08 --> gerard-majax_ has joined #instantbird
12:24:18 <-- igorko has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.5 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
14:18:23 <-- Tonnes has quit (Ping timeout)
14:19:18 --> Tonnes has joined #instantbird
15:10:36 --> igorko has joined #instantbird
15:47:15 <-- BWMerlin has quit (Quit: BWMerlin)
15:51:13 <-- hadi has quit (Connection reset by peer)
16:13:53 <-- Even has quit (Input/output error)
16:17:42 --> Mic|web has joined #instantbird
16:17:48 --> Even has joined #instantbird
16:17:49 * ChanServ sets mode +o Even 
16:23:18 <-- GeKo has quit (Ping timeout)
16:26:03 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Ping timeout)
16:29:48 --> GeKo has joined #instantbird
16:32:03 <-- gerard-majax_ has quit (Ping timeout)
16:39:44 --> GeekShadow has joined #instantbird
16:40:32 <flo-retina> my nightly has been running for a while has we don't have new nightlies these days. It's currently taking 500MB of memory. Here is the about:memory output: https://pastebin.mozilla.org/4045127
16:41:16 <flo-retina> it looks a lot to me like there's a leak of IRC's LIST results
16:42:09 <flo-retina> s/has/as/
16:58:38 <Tonnes> greetings
16:59:11 <Tonnes> time to l10n the release notes I suppose?
16:59:51 <flo-retina> Tonnes: it's possible at any time, if you push update to the website locale it should appear online automatically within an hour
17:00:06 <Tonnes> question: "Participants now have context menus that allow you to open private conversations or add them as buddies."-> who is "them" - users, patrticipants (themselves?)  or the private conversations?
17:00:20 <Tonnes> great
17:00:39 <flo-retina> them is the participant on which you opened the context menu
17:01:06 <Tonnes> ah, of course.. clear, thanks
17:20:16 <-- igorko has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.5 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
17:33:13 --> iamjayakumars has joined #instantbird
17:36:50 <-- Mic|web has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
17:42:07 <-- iamjayakumars has quit (Client exited)
17:43:11 <Tonnes> done :)
17:44:26 <Tonnes> no plans yet to change the used font on those pages?
17:49:43 <flo-retina> not that I am aware of
17:52:24 <Tonnes> hmm I remember naming this a while ago.. the font used on those pages appear like "dancing" in default Win 7 font size (small)
17:55:11 <Tonnes> could be related to my graphics card though
17:57:13 <Tonnes> ..though the issue also occurs on a win 2000 machine
18:05:23 <Tonnes> copyright year still 2013...
18:06:17 <flo-retina> we haven't updated anything in 2014 yet I guess
18:15:43 <Tonnes> not sure.. I thought lat year this was done manually
18:15:48 <Tonnes> s/last
18:19:06 <flo-retina> yes, we do it mostly manually, but after there's 'something' that can be copyrighted for the current year
18:21:36 <Tonnes> oh ok, I see
18:22:06 <Tonnes> just noticed the font issue is known as bug 442
18:22:09 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=442 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Problems with "Sacco-Vanzetti Instantbird" font
18:24:30 <Tonnes> I don't want to push anything but as I think it's uglifying the site in a severe matter, I can imagine users to leave the site and don't even try IB. And the bug was reported in July 2010...
18:25:07 <Tonnes> admitted, I have trouble with my vision lately, which makes it a little worse..
18:25:20 <Tonnes> but not that much :)
18:44:30 <Tonnes> would https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=953883 need a vote?
18:51:53 <flo-retina> Tonnes: it didn't look as bad in the screenshot attached to that bug
18:52:15 <flo-retina> in the screenshot you showed me, the 'w' character seemed really off :-/
18:52:42 <flo-retina> it's sad that Windows isn't able to draw a font on screen :(
18:53:01 <Tonnes> it looks worse than fine at least
18:53:13 <Tonnes> it's an exotic font after all
18:53:26 <flo-retina> Tonnes: I don't think votes make any difference (I don't even see where that feature is hidden on bugzilla now :-S).
18:53:54 <Tonnes> yeah it would be a manual vote :)
18:54:13 <flo-retina> what it really needs is someone fixing the font
18:54:26 <Tonnes> is there a problem changing the font?
18:55:04 <flo-retina> what would be a good font to use instead?
18:55:38 <Tonnes> I'd say any font will do, as long as it does t trigger the problem
18:55:49 <Tonnes> doesn't
19:02:20 <Tonnes> hmm I didn't know Sacco and Vanzetti where murderers
19:02:20 <flo-retina> well, it should also not regress other things ;)
19:02:37 <Tonnes> what should it regress?
19:03:24 <Tonnes> let me ne honest
19:04:30 <flo-retina> I would assume there are reasons why this font was crafted
19:06:00 <Tonnes> I can't understand why you guys have trouble fixing this.. for 3 years I've stumbled upun these web pages with dancing characters every time I do some l10n on IB. This in an exceptional web site scaring users IMO, and Mozilla would handle this right away if there is anything reported on their web sites. What's the problem?
19:07:01 <Tonnes> the only reason I can think of is that all developers are on linux, and Linux dos not suffer, while developers are stubborn and say  "Hey, I don;t see the problem so I'm not willing to change anything"
19:07:30 <Tonnes> if there was a reason, someone should handle the problem too :)
19:07:42 <Tonnes> (to use the font)
19:07:52 <flo-retina> Tonnes: I think this font was indeed developed on Linux
19:07:57 <flo-retina> Tonnes: and I'm on Mac.
19:08:13 <Tonnes> does Mac suffer from it?
19:08:16 <flo-retina> no
19:08:34 <Tonnes> that was obvious..
19:08:49 <flo-retina> and this isn't related to developers being on Linux
19:08:58 <flo-retina> we have some developers on Windows, and they never complained about this
19:09:00 <flo-retina> nor fixed it
19:09:31 <flo-retina> so I would guess it affects various Windows machines at different degrees for reasons I don't understand
19:09:49 <flo-retina> (I've installed Instantbird on Windows for testing a few times and never noticed it)
19:09:52 <Tonnes> possibly win only, yes
19:10:22 <Tonnes> but the font appears to be an open font, hence many Windows users may not have it
19:10:39 <Tonnes> cmiiw
19:10:40 <flo-retina> Tonnes: the font is part of the website, and downloaded automatically
19:10:47 <Tonnes> btw I don;t intend to be rude
19:12:08 <Tonnes> anyway the bug is 3 1/2 years old and I'm concerned about (win) users leaving the site and not using IB
19:12:28 <Tonnes> you mean the ost service, and you cannot change it?
19:12:32 <Tonnes> host
19:12:40 <flo-retina> Tonnes: one of the reasons why developers tend to avoid touching that kind of stuff is that anything highly visible and not really technical (eg. colors, logos, etc...) tends to start endless debate without real arguments to decide.
19:12:41 <Tonnes> or hosting :)
19:13:07 <flo-retina> Tonnes: I just meant "many Windows users may not have it" didn't really make sense.
19:13:42 <Tonnes> the font
19:13:46 <flo-retina> Tonnes: so to avoid these long debates, we tend to let one person take these decisions, and avoid arguing about them.
19:14:00 <Tonnes> window may have trouble rendering the unknown font perhaps
19:14:11 <Tonnes> of course
19:14:15 <flo-retina> it's not an unknown font, it's a downloaded font.
19:16:30 <Tonnes> so windows downloads it and should render it properly?
19:17:30 <flo-retina> all OSes download it
19:18:18 <flo-retina> I've requested screenshots at http://browsershots.org/http://instantbird.com/release-notes.html
19:18:24 <Tonnes> assuming it is just loaded for the website and not installed in Windows (as I don;t see itlisted), there is a problem with it allright
19:19:44 <flo-retina> there seems to be a problem rendering that font file on Windows
19:19:51 <flo-retina> but I don't know much about font rendering
19:20:16 <Tonnes> me neither
19:34:48 <Tonnes> how does one know about that url? would it be worth posting it in the (new mozilla) bug?
19:36:26 <flo-retina> which url?
19:36:28 <Tonnes> and do you mind if I ask for a solution in that bug?
19:36:39 <Tonnes> from browsershots
19:36:49 <flo-retina> the url won't stay interesting
19:36:54 <Tonnes> the ability to post, for users suffering it, I mean
19:37:58 <flo-retina> is http://api.browsershots.org/png/original/5f/5fafc3ebc719f37f3e365fc38b7e7bd7.png similar to what you see?
19:39:29 <Tonnes> yes
19:39:49 <flo-retina> ah
19:40:18 <Tonnes> oh, I thought this was a site to post screenshots on - it checks them automatically, lol
19:40:22 <flo-retina> the issues that seemed the worst to me (eg 'w' larger and bolder than other characters) don't seem to exist on that screenshot
19:43:42 <Tonnes> I do see it in my screenshots - look for the w in "shown as mobile"
19:44:22 <flo-retina> I was saying that this specific issue seemed the worst in your screenshot; and I don't see it on browsershots's screenshots
19:45:39 <Tonnes> it may be a Win 7 screenshot as well, but the problem is different in some cases apparently. omtimes the w is smaller - as in http://api.browsershots.org/png/original/fd/fd1035d67f54f095d55c3eff3a4daa89.png - Creating a new conversation tab..
19:46:25 <Tonnes> I wouldn;t go that specific, it's clear there is an issue
19:47:52 <flo-retina> on http://api.browsershots.org/png/original/fd/fd1035d67f54f095d55c3eff3a4daa89.png the only problem I really see is the 't' is too small in the bold font
19:50:48 <Tonnes> zoom that in closely and you'll see many characters don't have the same height while they should
19:51:38 <Tonnes> hope you're not trying to trivialize the issue..
19:52:21 <Tonnes> without zooming in it's also clear in the (bold) new conversation tab
19:59:23 --> FireFly_TB has joined #instantbird
20:15:35 <Tonnes> btw the web page hasn't been updated yet after my push. Hope it will tomorrow, time to have dinner :)
20:24:40 <-- FireFly_TB has quit (Input/output error)
20:44:39 --> hadi has joined #instantbird
20:51:03 --> FireFly_TB has joined #instantbird
21:22:40 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird
21:40:58 <-- GeKo has quit (Quit: leaving)
22:05:31 --> jb has joined #instantbird
22:11:57 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout)
22:39:45 <-- FireFly_TB has quit (Ping timeout)
22:46:40 --> Mic has joined #instantbird
22:48:49 <Mic> Good evening
22:49:01 <Mic> Tonnes: I reported the font bug and I've got to say that I rarely visit any of the webpages ;)
22:49:40 <Mic> Maybe there's some information missing on that font that causes problems when scaling...
22:50:03 <Mic> As soon as you zoom in a bit (i.e. the font getting larger) the problems like the overly large 'w' disappear.
23:08:49 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird -- http://www.instantbird.com)
23:19:45 <-- Suiseiseki has quit (Ping timeout)
23:22:07 --> Suiseiseki has joined #instantbird
23:54:11 <-- hadi has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.5 -- http://www.instantbird.com)