#instantbird log on 01 06 2014

All times are UTC.

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00:46:05 <flo-retina> clokep: I haven't filed any bugs for this
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01:04:38 <clokep> flo-retina: OK. I can file it I guess...what is this bug?
01:04:49 <clokep> "Merge Instantbird into comm-central"? What component does that go in? :P
01:07:07 <flo-retina> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Instantbird&component=Other
01:07:56 <flo-retina> "Merge Instantbird into comm-central" may not be the best wording to avoid questions ;)
01:08:36 <flo-retina> "Land the IM front-end in comm-central"? :-D
01:12:43 <flo-retina> aleth: does that mean we need another "chat/ merge" bug before landing im/ ? :-S
01:13:41 * clokep hopes not. ;)
01:13:50 <aleth> Yes (though I thought you were aware of this and wanted to do it simultaneously)
01:14:01 <clokep> flo-retina: Do you want each of these patches as a separate attachment?
01:15:20 <clokep> (There'd be 19 :P)
01:17:24 <flo-retina> clokep: isn't there a mercurial add-on to upload a patch queue to a bug?
01:17:58 <clokep> bzexport might allow that.
01:19:40 <clokep> Yeah it can.
01:19:44 <clokep> Do I need a description in this bug? :P
01:20:11 <flo-retina> clokep: yes? :-P
01:20:41 <flo-retina> something about landing chat changes together with changes in both the Ib and the Tb front-end, so having all these parts in the same repo
01:21:42 <flo-retina> also, about avoiding 'chat/ merge' bugs
01:24:20 <flo-retina> clokep: have you added the mac ifndef and the other change in your patch queue?
01:24:30 <clokep> flo-retina: No.
01:24:34 <clokep> Idk what "other change" is.
01:24:44 <flo-retina> :(
01:25:22 * clokep isn't really sure what that face is for. :-\
01:25:40 <flo-retina> clokep: http://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central/rev/838cfd8efab4
01:25:43 <clokep> I wasn't given a diff or anything of the changes you made. Everything in the pastebinned diff you gave me is included.
01:25:56 <clokep> It was unclear whether that was actually necessary.
01:26:01 <flo-retina> it is!
01:26:21 <clokep> I'll add it now.
01:26:57 <flo-retina> given http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/yesterday#m93 and my next 3 messages, I thought that was clear :-S
01:27:41 <flo-retina> have you handled the missing s/instantbird/im/ ? (I pastebined yesterday the remaining ones that grep found)
01:28:08 <clokep> Yes.
01:28:50 <clokep> flo-retina: It's really difficult to track what changes are being ported from messages in an IRC chat. ;)
01:29:36 <flo-retina> just in case that wasn't explicit, I was talking about these: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/518204
01:29:56 <clokep> I think I have all those, but I'll check again.
01:30:01 <flo-retina> clokep: that's why I'm double checking ;)
01:30:15 <flo-retina> clokep: maybe we should start yet another pad to keep an updated status of this work?
01:30:35 <clokep> flo-retina: Maybe. :)
01:31:39 <flo-retina> clokep: great description for the bug! :)
01:34:36 <clokep> flo-retina: Should the line above that in filter.py also be set to im instead of instantbird? (And purple shold be removed I assume)
01:35:55 <clokep> (There's a bunch of "instantbird" refereneces in that file, which ones do I want to touch?)
01:36:26 <flo-retina> arg
01:36:30 <flo-retina> that file is going to be a PITA
01:36:50 <flo-retina> the "instantbird/" there refers both to path within our code repo, and paths within l10n repos :(
01:38:26 <clokep> That's fun. :) What should I do w/ it for now?
01:38:40 <flo-retina> I don't really know what that file does :(
01:38:54 <clokep> It filters things, clearly. ;)
01:39:01 <flo-retina> clokep: sure ;)
01:40:00 <flo-retina> clokep: ok, don't touch it.
01:40:13 <clokep> flo-retina: OK. :(
01:40:58 <flo-retina> hmm
01:41:31 <flo-retina> I guess the modules in http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/locales/filter.py#8 are expected to match things listed in http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/locales/l10n.ini#8
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01:41:58 <flo-retina> I'm not sure of what l10n.ini does though
01:42:05 <flo-retina> these paths _may_ be inside l10n repos
01:42:46 <flo-retina> yes, they are
01:43:07 <flo-retina> ok, so don't touch im/locales/l10n.ini either
01:43:34 <flo-retina> clokep: only the first 3 lines of my pastebin (http://pastebin.instantbird.com/518204) made sense then. Sorry for the noise.
01:44:31 <clokep> OK.
01:44:51 <flo-retina> I think we'll need a follow-up to figure out our l10n story
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01:45:10 <flo-retina> but we'll need follow-ups and plenty of discussion just to decide how we do nightlies, and then how we do releases ;)
01:45:46 <flo-retina> ooh, mconley is in France :)
01:45:58 <mconley> :D
01:46:14 <mconley> and jetlagged like crazy. What's YOUR excuse for still being up? :D
01:46:24 <flo-retina> do I need one?
01:46:36 <clokep> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=728117 :(
01:46:47 <mconley> heh
01:47:54 <flo-retina> mconley: I guess my excuse is discussing Ib stuff ;)
01:48:06 <mconley> good excuse
01:48:50 <flo-retina> so you are here for 2 weeks?
01:49:03 * clokep wonders if you guys have met before.
01:49:13 <mconley> we have!
01:49:29 <mconley> flo-retina: yeah, first week I'm vacationing here with my gf, second week for work
01:49:42 <mconley> flo-retina: any suggestions / recommendations?
01:50:31 <flo-retina> not really, I assume people from the paris office may have more useful recommendations than I could have (assuming you are in Paris).
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01:53:21 <clokep> There's some museums and stuff. ;) Eat lots of croissants?
01:53:26 <clokep> That was mostly my trip to Paris.
01:53:44 <flo-retina> clokep: but yours was shorter than a week ;)
01:53:54 <clokep> Yes, it was 3 days. I think.
01:54:07 <flo-retina> clokep: also "visit a moz space" ;)
01:54:24 <mconley> :D
01:54:26 <mconley> cool
01:54:28 <mconley> thanks
01:55:30 <clokep> flo-retina: Your about to get review spammed.
01:55:42 <flo-retina> clokep: time to hide then, good night :-P.
01:56:04 <flo-retina> clokep: although I doubt I could get more bugspam than last week ;)
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04:04:00 <instant-buildbot> build #1072 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [3build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/1072
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04:46:09 <instant-buildbot> build #1595 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Failure [4failed shell_3]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/1595
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05:21:17 <instant-buildbot> build #1222 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Exception [6exception]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/1222
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11:05:55 <flo-retina> the latest mac update is broken :-/
11:06:02 <flo-retina> and that causes all new nightlies to fail
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11:49:36 * clokep wonders if flo-retina has looked at all those reviews yet. ;)
11:49:48 <flo-retina> I haven't
11:50:36 <flo-retina> maybe if I have a long meeting? ;)
11:57:09 <clokep> Haha. OK. :)
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13:10:51 <qheaden> Hello everyone.
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13:22:58 <clokep_work> Is lxr running slow for anyone else?
13:24:09 <flo-retina> ntpd(?!?) is sucking a lot of CPU
13:27:43 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Did you read https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=956694 ?
13:27:51 * clokep_work had been wondering how long before someone freaked out about that.
13:27:55 <flo-retina> yes
13:28:25 <flo-retina> it seems to be a relatively simple request for enhancement, wrapped with rambling to make it sound dramatic
13:29:58 * flo-retina wonders who is having fun attacking that poor server
13:37:38 <clokep_work> What's the request?
13:37:46 <clokep_work> Pop up a modal dialogue when you receive an invite? ;)
13:39:29 <flo-retina> clokep_work: we could open the tab, but join it only after the user presses enter, or something
13:40:09 <flo-retina> I can't remember if invites to password protected channels work or not
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14:01:06 <clokep_work> flo-retina: I don't remember either. Easy enough to test if we want to.
14:01:16 <clokep_work> flo-retina: This is also with Thunderbird, not Instantbird. ;)
14:01:44 <flo-retina> these 2 are close enough ;)
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14:02:56 <flo-retina> I remember having trouble inviting Gerv to #ib-private, but I can't remember if it's something we fixed long ago and that was just a problem of the 1.4 version, or if it still needs to be investigated
14:16:52 <clokep_work> Fair enough. :)
14:17:01 <clokep_work> I want to say we fixed that, but I don't remember. Sorry. :-\
14:17:25 <clokep_work> Has anyone made a BMO search that searches Instantbird stuff? :)
14:18:07 <flo-retina> I haven't (yet)
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14:28:21 <clokep_work> Bah that's guy is annoying.
14:30:01 * clokep_work has nothing to say to his newest comment.
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14:33:44 <flo-retina> clokep: is this the "what about auto-K-Lining channels" comment?
14:34:30 <clokep_work> Yeah.
14:34:31 <clokep_work> I replied.
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16:47:06 <nathanr> has anyone worked on a solution to be able to see where you've been mentioned when you come back after a few hours?
16:50:29 <clokep_work> nathanr: That's fully supported already.
16:50:36 <nathanr> clokep_work: how?
16:53:19 <clokep_work> nathanr: I think it's page up?
16:53:25 * clokep_work always forgets the hotkeys.
16:53:43 <nathanr> hmm page up just does what its meant to do - scrolls up a page
16:54:09 <clokep_work> nathanr: https://wiki.instantbird.org/Keyboard_shortcuts
16:54:21 <clokep_work> Alt+Page up, it looks like.
16:54:45 <nathanr> ah I see
16:54:53 <clokep_work> Although "Sections are the beginning and end of the conversation, the first non-context message, and the unread messages ruler when it exists" makes it sound like those might not be included.
16:55:25 <flo-retina> I don't think pings are included in section scrolling (yet?)
16:55:34 <flo-retina> (that's a question for aleth ;))
16:56:42 <nathanr> nah doesnt seem to be
16:57:15 <nathanr> btw it'd be really helpful if some of these things were in popupmenu's as well (keyboard shortcuts are not very discoverable)
16:57:19 <nathanr> particularly the log viewer
16:59:07 <clokep_work> The log viewer is in the context menu already.
17:00:21 <clokep_work> (Right click on the tab, it's in there somewhere.)
17:00:33 <nathanr> ah I see
17:01:54 <clokep_work> Looks like I broke Thunderbird's auto-join, yay.
17:02:00 <clokep_work> (Well changing the auto-join pref.)
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18:23:28 <aleth> flo: What's the story with contacts in TB? In particular, why are the existing contact tooltips simpler than the IB ones and only show the preferredBuddy?
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18:51:58 <Mic> Good evening!
18:53:13 <Mic> nathanr: when the input box of a conversation is empty, then the navigation keys are forwarded to the conversation view, i.e. you can navigate with up/down,page up/down, Home, End, without having to move the focus there.
18:53:47 <Mic> I think I never really used the shortcuts that require a modifier...
18:54:04 <nathanr> Mic: yeah I noticed that :) But it doesnt really help me to locate my name being mentioned
18:54:05 <Mic> *navigation shortcuts
18:54:26 <Mic> Yes, we should do something with pings.
18:55:08 <nathanr> personally I'd really like a small window that shows all your mentions (if there are, say, more than 3) so that after being afk for a night you can easily browse and review your mentions
18:55:23 <nathanr> I might have a go at it myself once I scratch that single window mode itch 
18:55:30 <Mic> Do you know if there's a bug about that already? If not, would you file one? :)
18:56:09 <Mic> (i.e. one for "navigate to mentions easily", whatever the solution will turn out to be then)
18:56:50 <nathanr> havent checked yet, will have a look once I've had my lunch
18:57:17 <Mic> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=954814#c4
18:58:12 <nathanr> ah nice :) though that still doesnt really help much if you've had several mentions (I'd imagine it to be a bit cumbersome to check multiple mentions with section scroll)
18:58:46 <nathanr> seems they're kind of touching on that already in the comments
18:59:33 <nathanr> I'll weigh in on the ticket
19:05:27 <clokep_work> We have lots of bugs and ideas and not enough time to implement them all. ;)
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19:19:59 <nathanr> clokep_work: sounds familiar :p
19:23:50 <clokep_work> :)
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20:03:40 <flo-retina> aleth: TB doesn't have any UI to merge buddies into contacts. To all contacts displayed by Tb are composed of a single buddy.
20:06:11 <flo-retina> nathanr: have you explained somewhere what your "all in one window" itch is exactly?
20:06:33 <flo-retina> I'm especially curious to know if the awesome tab helped, or if you really want the list of contacts displayed all the time.
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20:22:37 <nathanr> flo-retina: basically this - https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:extension_wish_list#Contacts_window
20:22:43 <nathanr> the radical approach version
20:23:11 <nathanr> I love the awesome tab, I'm looking to integrate it permanently on the left of my chat window as a replacement for the tabs
20:23:15 <nathanr> and with some added tweaks
20:23:20 <nathanr> (sorting, indicators)
20:23:21 <clokep_work> nathanr: I think flo-retina asked why. ;)
20:23:36 <nathanr> why what?
20:25:40 <clokep_work> What issue are you trying to solve, I think is what he's interested in.
20:25:53 <clokep_work> What do you mean by sorting / indicators, btw?
20:40:57 <nathanr> no issue, just UX improvements (for my personal tastes)
20:41:16 <nathanr> sorting as in I'd like to sort them by the last conversation that I was active in
20:41:34 <nathanr> and indicators, eg. nr of mentions, nr of messages since I last checked there
20:42:22 <nathanr> I'll spend some time tonight to file enhancements that I'd personally like to see, just to ensure I won't be working on something in my spare time that is already being worked on
20:42:37 <nathanr> but they're mostly very subjective, I don't expect you to implement them all natively
20:50:23 <clokep_work> We already give mentions/messages since last checked in the on hold list. ;)
20:51:23 <flo-retina> "indicators, eg. nr of mentions, nr of messages since I last checked there" are things the awesometab should do
20:51:49 <flo-retina> clokep_work: yes, but there's no reason for the awesome tab to show less info than the list of convs on hold
20:56:03 <nathanr> hmm I dont see anything indicating nr of messages since I last checked
20:56:08 <nathanr> is that on 1.5?
20:56:24 <flo-retina> nathanr: it's only on the "conversations on hold" section of the contacts window
20:56:36 <nathanr> ah, I was talking about the awesome tab
20:56:46 <flo-retina> nathanr: I'm saying we should also show it on the awesometab "switch to conversation" items.
20:57:00 <nathanr> right, thats what I was saying as well, got confused :)
20:58:02 <flo-retina> no problem, I was just saying that's something that can be done by default; if you want to make it work, a patch will be accepted, you don't have to make it an add-on
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21:04:54 <nathanr> cool, will keep that in mind :)
21:05:27 <flo-retina> nathanr: at some point I considered making an "all in one window" mode part of the default build
21:05:37 <nathanr> next weekend I'll try and get a linux build running
21:05:42 <flo-retina> but that wouldn't replace the current UI, just be a checkbox somewhere
21:05:59 <flo-retina> it would probably need to be tested in an add-on before deciding how that UX should work though
21:06:02 <nathanr> flo-retina: yeah that's how I imagine it too
21:06:29 <nathanr> I'd basically make an overlay that wraps the chat window and the awesome tab
21:06:51 <nathanr> ie. awesome tab as a sidebar on the left of the chat window
21:06:58 <flo-retina> the awesome tab is already part of the chat window
21:07:05 <nathanr> right but as a tab
21:07:13 <nathanr> I'd like to use it as an alternative to tabs
21:07:38 <nathanr> akin to http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/06/messages_mountain_lion.jpg
21:08:34 <flo-retina> that's a mix of vertical tabs, and the awesometab
21:09:02 <nathanr> right
21:09:23 <nathanr> but I think it's easier to bring some of the functions of the vertical tabs to the awesometab than the other way around
21:10:08 <flo-retina> I don't really know
21:10:28 <flo-retina> IIRC we've already had two "all in one" experiments.
21:10:42 <nathanr> right, yours and Mooks
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21:11:00 <flo-retina> One was putting the buddy list in the chat window (the awesome tab didn't exist at the time), and the other put conversation bindings in the buddy list
21:11:15 <nathanr> I'm just making an addon for what I'd personally like to see though, from there you can see if it's something you'd like to integrate in some way, but that's not my main objective
21:11:40 <flo-retina> nathanr: sure, make it work well for you first :)
21:12:07 <nathanr> yep :)
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21:21:34 <Mook_as> nathanr: can I get CCed on your extension development? :p
21:21:51 <nathanr> Mook_as: lol sure thing
21:22:51 <nathanr> I'm targeting Instantbird though, not sure how well that translates to TB
21:23:28 <Mook_as> don't care, the only reason I'm using TB is single window mode
21:23:36 <Mook_as> so if your thing works, I can easily switch back
21:23:58 <nathanr> ok
21:24:10 <nathanr> you can already kind of use single window mode with awesome tab
21:24:23 <nathanr> I dont use the contact list myself, just awesome tab
21:24:29 <flo-retina> :)
21:24:40 <flo-retina> I would like to no longer need the contacts window
21:25:25 <nathanr> I only need it on Linux to access the menubar :p
21:25:30 <flo-retina> the things that are missing: unread message count (already discussed), showing the status of some contacts (when there's someone I know I need to talk to, and I'm checking several times a day until I see him 'available')
21:26:00 <flo-retina> nathanr: if you are using something like unity that has the menubar at the top, maybe you can get the menubar in the conv window too?
21:26:06 <nathanr> and conversations on hold ?
21:26:37 <nathanr> I'm on elementary-os so no dice there, but no matter to me personally - I only use it on linux for development
21:26:44 <flo-retina> the only reason for needing to look at them is to see if there's unread stuff I may want to read; the awesome tab could do that
21:26:45 <nathanr> my main instance is on OSX
21:26:56 <flo-retina> ok :)
21:27:06 <nathanr> yeah I suppose so, but you'd probably still want to group them together somehow
21:27:15 <flo-retina> the top area with the display name and status could be moved/copied to another window (eg. the account window, like Thunderbird does)
21:27:44 <flo-retina> they are mostly IRC channels for which I want to have scrollback if someone ever pings me ;).
21:27:51 <flo-retina> so usually I don't need to see them.
21:28:03 <nathanr> I just got rid of it entirely, I personally have no need for it - though I was thinking of just adding a simple icon at the top right window if the chat window to access some of the hidden stuff (well the stuff I have hidden)
21:29:14 <flo-retina> to address the "I need to talk to ... once he's available" case, it may be interesting to have a feature/add-on that speculatively opens conversation tabs
21:29:33 <nathanr> that sounds like it could be really annoying
21:29:36 <flo-retina> maybe the tab would have reduced opacity to show that it's just a suggestion
21:29:48 <nathanr> unless its explicitly set by the end-user
21:29:59 <flo-retina> nathanr: it would have to be set explicitly, yes
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21:30:32 <flo-retina> Pidgin has something called "buddy pounce". The UI is awful, but there's a real (set of) use case(s) there.
21:30:56 <nathanr> "pidgin and UI is awful" go hand in hand :p
21:32:49 <Mook_as> roughly, IRC's /watch ?
21:32:57 <flo-retina> Mook_as: what's that?
21:33:16 <Mook_as> *pretty sure* (in chatzilla at least) it gives you a message when the given user's online
21:34:07 <flo-retina> Mook_as: well, chatzilla's UI is... meh :-P
21:34:38 <Mook_as> sure, I'm not saying we should copy that UI :p
21:35:42 <Mic> flo-retina: maybe replace the "Start conversation" menu item with "Notify me when this contact signs on" when it's not possible to start one?
21:36:12 <nathanr> hm, does Instantbird not leave offline messages?
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21:36:15 <nathanr> cause it would break that
21:37:17 <flo-retina> Mic: I'm not interested about the "not possible to start a conv" problem, but about "contact unlikely to reply"
21:37:32 <flo-retina> I want to see when he's available (ie !away, not !offline)
21:40:04 <Mic> Will that really work well with the way that other people use their statuses? ;)
21:42:14 <flo-retina> bah...
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