#instantbird log on 11 25 2013

All times are UTC.

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04:20:21 <instant-buildbot> build #1031 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [3build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/1031
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07:56:22 <instant-buildbot> build #1169 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [3build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/1169
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11:36:03 <clokep> flo-retina: I've never seen bug 2113 on Windows.
11:36:05 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2113 nor, --, 1.5, florian, REOP, Buddy tooltips have incorrect sizes
11:36:23 <clokep> Although this one is funky...
11:38:10 <clokep> http://i.imgur.com/ULwCIKF.png
11:41:20 <flo-retina> ouch
11:41:35 <flo-retina> seems a different issue though
11:41:46 <flo-retina> anyway, good morning :)
11:42:47 <flo-retina> all m-c builds seem to start with "Automatically clobbering" these days :-S
11:43:30 <clokep> Good morning indeed! Sorry I wasn't around much this weekend, I know I have a couple blockers to handle.
11:43:38 <clokep> I'm hoping to be motivated over my long weekend coming up.
11:45:41 <flo-retina> would be nice if we could string freeze before your long turkey filled week-end :)
11:45:57 <clokep> I think there's one bug left and we can string freeze.
11:46:02 <flo-retina> yeah
11:46:07 <flo-retina> and I think I can steal the review left there
11:46:15 <flo-retina> well, there's also one issue left on buildbot-l10n
11:46:43 <clokep> Ah, ok. I saw you and Even did a bunch of work (awesome!) but wasn't positive the state it was in. :)
11:47:05 <flo-retina> I'm curious to see if onCommit works :)
11:47:10 <flo-retina> I know it does for l10n repositories
11:47:19 <flo-retina> but I haven't pushed anything recently on the ib repo
11:49:23 <clokep> There's nothing checkin-needed, right?
11:49:31 <flo-retina> seems right
11:50:11 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested feedback from florian@instantbird.org for attachment 3080 on bug 2115.
11:50:12 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2115 nor, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Provide a way to obtain the normalizedName of a nick
11:50:17 <flo-retina> to test the l10n oncommits we just created a fake locale and pushed junk to it
11:50:24 <flo-retina> but I didn't want to do that with the real code repo :)
11:50:58 <flo-retina> Mic seemed interested in rushing the duplicate account detection over the week-end, but I haven't seen him
11:53:50 <clokep> I don't even remember what the status of that is. :-/
11:54:51 <clokep> The stuff right before release is always so...not glamorous. :(
11:56:26 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted feedback for attachment 3080 on bug 2115.
11:56:28 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2115 nor, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Provide a way to obtain the normalizedName of a nick
12:00:13 <flo-retina> clokep: we really need to stop havingt "stuff right before release" ;)
12:00:28 <flo-retina> that's why I'm interested in us adopting the trains model :)
12:00:43 <flo-retina> btw, my new machine: http://queze.net/goinfre/desktop-pc/IMG_20131123_144911.jpg
12:01:28 <clokep> Yes, I think it might be a good idea. :)
12:01:33 <flo-retina> and the parts I removed that are waiting for a new owner: http://queze.net/goinfre/desktop-pc/IMG_20131123_233617.jpg http://queze.net/goinfre/desktop-pc/IMG_20131124_232942.jpg
12:01:39 <clokep> flo-retina: Fancy! :)
12:02:54 <flo-retina> I'm surprised that the CPU fan seems to be the exact same model on both, even though one is 5 years old.
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16:55:00 <alexis> flo-retina yep
16:55:23 <flo-retina> context: discussion of /ignore in Instantbird that started in #talkilla
16:55:25 <alexis> flo-retina my take on it is that I would like to use ignore as it's implemented in the other platforms.
16:55:46 <flo-retina> alexis: clokep wrote an ignore add-on
16:56:04 <flo-retina> so if you want the really basic ignore feature, you can get it that way.
16:57:07 <alexis> flo-retina but now that you're talkling about it, that would be interesting to actually have a way to hide the messages from someone
16:57:17 <alexis> flo-retina, and have a way to show them when needed
16:57:24 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org requested review from clokep@gmail.com for attachment 3024 on bug 2240.
16:57:25 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2240 nor, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Existing conversations should filter on all contacts
16:57:27 <alexis> flo-retina, I'm not sure how that would look, in the ui.
16:57:51 <alexis> flo-retina, yes, but that's a plugin. I expect to have basic irc features working out of the blue.
16:58:36 <flo-retina> alexis: what I would like is to grey out these messages and collapse them like we do for join/part messages
16:58:56 <alexis> flo-retina I'm not sure coloring them in grey would be enough.
16:59:11 <alexis> flo-retina, having them ignored from the hl would be a good thing as well.
16:59:12 <flo-retina> alexis: addons are a good way to experiment until we are happy with the UX ;)
16:59:18 <alexis> that's true.
16:59:19 <flo-retina> hl?
16:59:39 <flo-retina> if they are displayed as system messages, they don't appear in the unread message count, they get no color, no sound, nothing...
17:00:23 <alexis> highlight
17:05:34 * aleth wonders if /ignore can really be considered a "basic IRC feature"
17:06:52 <aleth> i.e. if its expected behaviour is really that clear.
17:08:09 <aleth> I don't think having "ignored" people as system messages is that great.
17:08:53 <aleth> Sounds like a very different use case.
17:09:45 <aleth> Spam vs merely uninteresting/noisy.
17:10:53 <aleth> A better UX might be to have an ignore checkbox in the participant context menu, and hide/unhide the corresponding messages.
17:14:36 <flo-retina> aleth: looks like you are making a few different points here
17:14:46 <aleth> yes
17:15:06 <flo-retina> aleth: the completion code insists on completely a<tab> to alexis even though I just talked to you, that seems wrong
17:15:18 <flo-retina> maybe sending a message to the nick should be treated the same as the nick pinging you?
17:15:34 <aleth> Hmm, I thought we already did that
17:15:39 <aleth> We certainly should.
17:15:54 <flo-retina> not for 1.5 ;)
17:16:01 <aleth> Indeed ;)
17:16:20 <flo-retina> aleth: so I definitely agree that having only a command is wrong UX, and there needs to be something discoverable for mouse users.
17:16:28 <alexis> aleth, true. that's not a "basic" feature. /q is, though.
17:16:40 <alexis> (I expect /q to open a query all the time, I don't know why)
17:16:40 <aleth> What is /q ?
17:16:47 <flo-retina> aleth: so I think the real problem is; it's not clear what "ignore" means.
17:16:56 <alexis>  /query; I guess you have /msg that does the same thing.
17:17:04 <aleth> alexis: We support /query
17:17:12 <flo-retina> aleth: in real life if you decide to ignore someone, you still hear them. You just decide to not bother trying to understand their points / replying.
17:17:29 <aleth> alexis: And /q isn't automatically /query because there is also /quit and /quote...
17:17:57 <aleth> flo-retina: That's what I meant about it not being "basic" in the sense that people disagree about what it means
17:18:22 <flo-retina> aleth: "/q isn't automatically /query because there is also /quit and /quote" this sentence almost sounds like what the system message should say when typing "/q<enter>" ;)
17:18:50 <aleth> flo-retina: "/q<tab>" will in fact do that
17:19:20 <flo-retina> aleth: I _ignored_ the point about whether something was a basic feature or not, because I think that's trolling fodder ;) and I prefer the discussion to focus on its valuable content :).
17:19:32 <flo-retina> aleth: I know it will
17:19:32 <aleth> So I agree (but I'm not sure anyone will ever type "/q<enter>"
17:19:42 <flo-retina> aleth: I suspect alexis did
17:20:05 <aleth> I suspect he typed "/q nick message" and expected it to do something...
17:20:34 <flo-retina> hmm
17:20:42 <flo-retina> alexis: ?
17:21:24 <alexis> that's it yes.
17:21:40 <alexis> I probably have bad habits because of my previous irc client, nevermind.
17:21:43 <aleth> It's just hard to predict which shortcuts from other clients somebody is used to ;)
17:21:53 <alexis> yes, pretty sure it is.
17:23:13 <aleth> "aleth: in real life if you decide to ignore someone, you still hear them." You could consider that a suboptimal implementation of /ignore by your auditory cortex ;)
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17:29:28 <flo-retina> aleth: not really. Because I'll consider them as noise in the surroundings, but if someone I consider as non-noise speaks up after something they said; I still usually have the last few seconds of "noise" buffered so that I can get context.
17:30:24 <flo-retina> alexis: when we can make stuff for people coming from other clients easier without regressing anything for familiar Ib users we are happy to do it; we just usually don't know about it, so feel free to mention it whenever something frustrates you! :)
17:30:29 <aleth> But isn't that the equivalent of actively deciding you want to unignore someone to see what they just said?
17:34:51 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org cancelled review?(clokep@gmail.com) for attachment 3024 on bug 2240.
17:34:52 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 3081 on bug 2240.
17:34:53 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2240 nor, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Existing conversations should filter on all contacts
17:36:11 <clokep^> aleth, flo-retina: Checkboxes next to names in the participant list that turns on/off their messages? So unignoring someone shows all their previous messages as well (inline where they should have been)?
17:36:38 <flo-retina> aleth: reading a line in gray is less effort than doing some stuff with the UI
17:36:53 <aleth> clokep^: That was what I meant, yes
17:37:37 <flo-retina> aleth: what I described that happens in real life doesn't require any action. I'm just taking into account the context of what the person I usually listen to said.
17:38:01 <aleth> flo-retina: I think the question is what the use case of /ignore is
17:38:22 <clokep^> Btw this is totally a UI thing in my mind and prpls shouldn't have to care.
17:38:26 * clokep^ /ignores you all.
17:38:29 <aleth> If it's someone who may possibly say something interesting, then I agree with your suggestion. If not, then I don't.
17:39:09 <clokep^> aleth: The question is can you have the best of both worlds. :-D
17:39:15 <flo-retina> aleth: s/interesting/vaguely on topic/
17:39:49 <aleth> clokep^: If someone is posting nasty spam (as e.g in the case why you wrote the add-on) you don't want to just see the spam in grey.
17:40:11 <clokep^> aleth: Oh. You're talking about putting it in grey...
17:40:18 <clokep^> I thought you were talking about my suggestoin.
17:40:21 <aleth> clokep^: That was flo's idea
17:40:21 <clokep^> Also, I agree with you.
17:44:41 <aleth> Seems we need two commands, /ignore and /hide or /mute and /ignore or whatever...
17:44:56 <flo-retina> aleth: what's the problem about having that spam in grey?
17:45:14 <flo-retina> that's not worse than quit messages saying miranda is smaller, faster, easier.
17:45:45 <aleth> I'm not sure about that.
17:46:06 <aleth> Spam is more likely to be noisy (caps, multiple lines, exclamation marks...)
17:53:22 <flo-retina> putting a conversation on hold by accident shouldn't lose the content of the input textbox :(
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17:54:09 <clokep^> flo-retina: How is Instantbird supposed to know it was by accident. ;)
17:54:20 <flo-retina> because I typed a long message
17:54:32 <flo-retina> then hit the wrong key, which displayed full screen some crap from the OS.
17:54:39 <flo-retina> I tried to get rid of that by pressing escape a few times
17:54:41 <flo-retina> and that didn't help :(
17:55:03 <flo-retina> when I finally managed to get rid of it (with the mouse), my Ib conv window had only 2 tabs left
17:55:51 <flo-retina> aleth: so, I was thinking that we could collapse consecutive ignored messages, and that we would crop them so that only the first line of each message is displayed (I think we should also do that for quit messages btw)
17:57:16 <flo-retina> btw, looks like a drive by review comment with a coding style nit is the best way to enlarge one's review queue ;)
17:57:21 <clokep^> flo-retina: (Really the point of my question is we should always do that, not just if we think it was by mistake. :))
17:57:45 <flo-retina> clokep^: oh sure
17:58:20 <flo-retina> I think it would have been more clear if you said "Why does it matter that it's by accident?" ;)
17:58:53 <clokep^> aleth: I don't understand the context of bug 2240 AT ALL.
17:58:54 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2240 nor, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Existing conversations should filter on all contacts
17:58:59 <clokep^> You're creating a propery that's...never used?
17:59:45 <flo-retina> clokep^: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/search?string=lowerCaseName
18:00:19 <clokep^> flo-retina: Sure, but...wouldn't we need to remove some other setting of that somewhere?
18:00:38 <aleth> clokep^: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/components/ibConvStatsService.js#360 more precisely
18:01:34 <aleth> clokep^: lowerCaseName is a getter that returns _lowerCaseName if it exists
18:01:43 <flo-retina> we were getting it from http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/components/ibConvStatsService.js#596
18:02:48 <clokep^> So...that won't work for some reason?
18:02:54 <clokep^> I guess I really just don't understand this bug at all. :-D
18:02:58 <flo-retina> aleth: why do you expect .contact to exist when .isChat is true?
18:03:49 <flo-retina> clokep^: so now you can experience how I felt Friday with your NormalizedDiscussion :-D
18:04:05 <clokep^> flo-retina: Sometimes I feel like I'm in a perpetual state of confusion though. ;)
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18:12:01 <clokep^> bip is a bouncer apparently.
18:31:16 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org cancelled review?(florian@instantbird .org) for attachment 3081 on bug 2240.
18:31:17 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 3082 on bug 2240.
18:31:18 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2240 nor, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Existing conversations should filter on all contacts
18:31:44 <aleth> nit fixes shouldn't introduce bugs by accident ;)
18:34:00 <flo-retina> it's usually better when they don't :)
18:36:51 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 3082 on bug 2240.
18:36:52 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2240 nor, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Existing conversations should filter on all contacts
18:44:05 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 2240 to FIXED.
18:44:06 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2240 nor, --, 1.5, aleth, RESO FIXED, Existing conversations should filter on all contacts
18:45:31 <clokep^> Let's see if oncommit works...
18:53:03 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/aece6e24d63a - aleth - Bug 2240 - Existing conversations should filter on all contacts, r=fqueze.
18:53:08 <aleth> :)
18:53:27 <aleth> Oh, that's just the checkin so far.
19:03:18 <instant-buildbot> build #1222 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [3build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/1222
19:04:58 <clokep^> Woot!
19:05:06 <clokep^> Ooo, it has color too?
19:08:06 <flo-retina> clokep^: we've had colors from instant-buildbot since the buildbot upgrade (ie when we installed buildbot on the new server)
19:08:45 <clokep^> I think I always read them on the log?
19:08:49 <clokep^> Which doesn't know what colors are.
19:16:21 <flo-retina> clokep^: there are ugly characters instantbot doesn't understand ;)
19:16:27 <flo-retina> they weren't there before we got colors
19:16:47 <flo-retina> so onCommits still don't work? :(
19:17:29 <clokep^> That was a nightly not an onCommit? :( Bleh.
19:17:33 <clokep^> I so didn't read that.
19:17:41 <clokep^> flo-retina: Yes, instantbot doesn't understand mIRC colors.
19:17:56 <Mook_as> what's instantbot written in anyway?
19:18:06 <flo-retina> Mook_as: python
19:18:09 <flo-retina> errr
19:18:09 <aleth> That's a very late nightly :-./
19:18:13 <flo-retina> Mook_as: perl
19:18:20 <flo-retina> Mook_as: instant-buildbot is in python
19:18:23 <clokep^> Perl, yes.
19:18:46 <Mook_as> yeah, instant-buildbot is probably the buildbot irc client
19:18:52 <aleth> Isn't it an oncommit that is erroneously called "nightly"?
19:19:11 * flo-retina was thinking "If the bot said 'Mac nightly finished successfully: <link>' instead of 'build #1222 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/1222' clokep^ would have seen what was going on."
19:19:18 <flo-retina> aleth: no
19:19:27 <flo-retina> aleth: but I've no idea of why there was no Mac nightly this night :-S
19:19:38 <flo-retina> maybe the slave was offline for some obscure reason
19:20:36 <clokep^> Mook_as: http://www-archive.mozilla.org/projects/mozbot/
19:20:42 <clokep^> That's what firebot and instantbot are.
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19:25:24 <Mook_as> ah, didn't realize instantbot is a mozbot
19:26:44 <Mook_as> (more specifically, didn't realize mozbot had a logging module)
19:26:47 <clokep^> instantbot: Who are you?
19:26:48 <instantbot> clokep^: I am the bot of the Instantbird Project, see http://www.instantbird.com
19:26:56 <clokep^> instantbot: version
19:26:59 <instantbot> clokep^: Sorry, I've no idea what 'version' might be.
19:27:08 <instantbot> clokep^: I have no version!
19:27:13 <Mook_as> /msg instantbot help gave some info :)
19:27:16 <clokep^> Mook_as: mozbot 2.7 (Admin, Bugzilla, General, God, Greeting, Infobot, Insult, List, MagicEightBall, Parrot, RDF, Seen, TextLogger, UUIDGen)
19:27:46 <Mook_as> also, "Seen: HASH(0x1298308)" made it obvious it was perl ;)
19:31:44 <clokep^> :) You gonna teach it MIRC colors?
19:32:05 <Mook_as> No. Lost interest once I knew it was mozbot (and therefore perl) :p
19:32:33 <Mook_as> though I *did* start to wonder what it would take to port the chat/ irc stuff to nodejs...
19:33:56 <clokep^> Why?
19:34:04 <clokep^> There's an IRC thing for node already.
19:34:07 <clokep^> It's sketchy IIRC.
19:34:12 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 2257 filed by aleth@instantbird.org.
19:34:13 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2257 enh, --, ---, aleth, NEW, [tabcomplete] Prefer previous completions
19:34:15 <clokep^> The Firefox OS IRC client uses it.
19:34:33 <flo-retina> :-D
19:35:03 * aleth wonders if it's called sketchy or is sketchy or both ;)
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22:50:07 * flo-retina is confused by the code in bug 2208.
22:50:08 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2208 nor, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Show a notification bar in the awesometab while log sweeping.
22:50:14 <flo-retina> confused in a way that smells r- :-S
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23:21:03 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org denied review for attachment 3065 on bug 2208.
23:21:04 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2208 nor, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Show a notification bar in the awesometab while log sweeping.
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