#instantbird log on 11 14 2013

All times are UTC.

00:00:05 <flo-retina> sukhe, arlolra: do you have a meeting every week at the same time? If so, is this something we should put in our calendars?
00:00:38 <arlolra> flo-retina: wednesday at 2:30 pst
00:01:05 <arlolra> if you're interested, I started this
00:01:06 <arlolra> https://github.com/arlolra/ctypes-otr/blob/master/chrome/content/libotr.js
00:01:26 <flo-retina> arlolra: I think https://gist.github.com/arlolra/6969273#file-ao-plan-L67 is incorrect. Only HTTP traffic goes through nsIChannels.
00:01:53 <clokep> flo-retina: Did I mis context? :-S
00:02:31 <clokep> arlolra: Any reason those aren't modules? :-S
00:03:19 <clokep> (Also where the hell is Cu defined? :P)
00:03:24 <flo-retina> arlolra: for non HTTP traffic, you'll want to look at what we do with socket transports (around http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/modules/socket.jsm#549)
00:03:35 <clokep> Mook_as: I tdon't think it'd be much work to support HTTP logs, but no one is supposed to have them.
00:03:56 <arlolra> flo-retina: thanks, I will update the gist
00:04:33 <Mook_as> err, what?
00:04:41 <clokep> Mook_as: Text.
00:04:42 <flo-retina> clokep: you didn't really miss context. I just saw 2 people related to Tor appearing here almost at the same time, so I assumed something related to Instantbird may have been happening; and I saw in my log of #tor-dev that they were discussing.
00:04:47 * clokep was reading and writing separate conversations. :(
00:04:50 <Mook_as> ah. okay.
00:05:04 <clokep> What's #tor-dev on?
00:05:12 <Mook_as> yeah, I copied the .txt logs from my instantbird profile
00:05:28 <clokep> Silly Mook expecting that to work. ;)
00:05:32 <arlolra> clokep: Cu seems to be a global in firefox (just trying things out) .. but, yeah, that's the kind of nitting I want
00:05:36 <clokep> The backend fully supports it, but I don't think the UI knows how to handle it.
00:05:46 <clokep> arlolra: It must be defined in wherever you have an overlay, it's not a global.
00:05:57 <arlolra> clokep: es6 module?
00:06:07 <clokep> Something that starts with "lib" I would expect to be a JS module though, not a random JS file.
00:06:10 <clokep> But maybe that's just me. :)
00:06:11 <arlolra> clokep: ok, browser overlay
00:06:23 <clokep> Idk what es6 module means.
00:06:37 <arlolra> what do you mean by module?
00:06:38 <clokep> One second, my dinner is almost ready.
00:06:41 <flo-retina> clokep: irc.oftc.net
00:06:42 <Mook_as> No, Cu is just an alias for https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Components.utils
00:07:05 <arlolra> clokep: http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=harmony:modules
00:07:07 <Mook_as> it's a global in that lots of people do | const Cu = Components.utils; |
00:07:15 <arlolra> Mook_as: right
00:07:33 <clokep> arlolra: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/JavaScript_code_modules
00:08:07 <arlolra> clokep: thanks
00:08:16 <arlolra> I have no XUL experience
00:08:19 <clokep> You wouldn't have to do anonying things like ensure you have only one global object because only things you explicitly export end up "polluting" the scope of places they're imported.
00:08:46 <arlolra> sounds good
00:09:01 <flo-retina> yes, you'll want your code to be in either a JS module or a JS XPCOM component.
00:09:28 <arlolra> feel free to create issues for me on github (if you use that)
00:09:32 <flo-retina> a module is usually easier; unless you need to call this code from C++.
00:09:45 <flo-retina> arlolra: we use bugzilla.instantbird.org
00:09:57 <clokep> I think he meant for his libotr.js thingy. :)
00:10:06 * clokep greatly dislikes github...
00:10:07 <arlolra> yeah
00:10:08 <flo-retina> but most of us likely have github accounts, yes
00:10:10 <clokep> ..but I think I have an account.
00:10:27 <arlolra> I can create an instantbird tracking issue for this, if find that easier
00:10:34 <arlolra> I just want your input as I go
00:11:29 <clokep> Do you commit less than like 40 times a day? ;)
00:11:35 * clokep will just watch the repo.
00:12:14 <flo-retina> if you want to integrate changes, it will be easier if they are discussed in our bugzilla. But if you are just focused on writing a specific piece of new code, use whatever makes you the most productive.
00:12:51 <arlolra> ok, I'll move to bugzilla when it's closer to integration
00:13:47 <arlolra> clokep: I'll keep it reasonable
00:14:47 <clokep> arlolra: I unfortunately have to do some work tonight (along with chauffeuring people around...), but I'll try to look at the code you have sometime soon. :)
00:15:31 <arlolra> thanks, I appreciate it
00:15:55 <clokep> Please ask if you have questions. :)
00:16:58 <clokep> Bleh irc.oftc.net's cert is invalid..
00:17:20 <flo-retina> clokep: I just turned off SSL
00:17:37 <arlolra> it's not invalid is it? you just have to add it, no?
00:17:38 <flo-retina> clokep: which is a bit ridiculous to go discuss this specific topic, but oh well...
00:17:50 <flo-retina> arlolra: that's equivalent from most users' point of view.
00:18:12 <clokep> (Including mine. :-D)
00:18:15 <arlolra> http://www.spi-inc.org/ca/spi-cacert.crt
00:18:23 <arlolra> http://www.spi-inc.org/ca/spi-cacert.fingerprint.txt
00:21:14 <Mook_as> arlolra: then you need to somehow confirm that the .crt is the right you (i.e. you're not being MitMed when fetching that over unencrypted http)
00:28:00 <arlolra> ha, yeah
00:28:23 <arlolra> https://www.spi-inc ... complains the cert is for members.spi-inc
00:29:08 <arlolra> fail all around
00:31:02 <Mook_as> IIRC, oftc supports client certs, though? that's kinda neat
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00:44:20 <sukhe> hey flo-retina. sorry was AFK. yes, arlo and I are working on it and we meet wednesday 14:30 PST
00:45:22 <sukhe> flo-retina: how much work is RTL support (a very rough estimate would be good) and more importantly, what needs to be done for that?
00:45:28 <flo-retina> sukhe: that's late for me (I'm in France) so I can't promise to be here frequently, but I added it to my calendar, so I may be around sometimes.
00:46:00 <sukhe> flo-retina: if you want to attend the meetings, I am sure we can come up with some other time. I will talk to our "manager" about it :)
00:46:26 <flo-retina> sukhe: I'm often around on the internet pretty late, so don't move it ;).
00:46:45 <sukhe> ok!
00:46:52 <flo-retina> sukhe: aleth fixed bug 1600 recently. Or at least did a best effort to fix it.
00:46:54 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1600 nor, --, 1.5, aleth, RESO FIXED, RTL messages on the receiver side
00:47:18 <flo-retina> sukhe: the real problem with RTL is that nobody in our current developers speak any RTL language, so we can't see if something works right or not.
00:47:49 <flo-retina> sukhe: assuming someone who knows what is needed was around, that shouldn't be too difficult (as Firefox already supports RTL languages)
00:48:09 <sukhe> flo-retina: we have many Tor volunteers who speak Farsi. I will ask one them right away.
00:48:29 <flo-retina> hmm, I wonder what the situation is for Thunderbird by the way. I would assume Tb is translated in some RTL languages, and the chat feature could be used there.
00:49:01 <sukhe> Thunderbird is available in Arabic, so I am guessing the RTL support must be complete
00:49:05 <clokep> sukhe: It's very much a "We want to support it well, but don't know the issues" thing. :) Same with accessibility, although we've heard we have great support for that.
00:49:11 <clokep> (And frequently talk to an NVDA guy about it, I think.)
00:50:01 <flo-retina> sukhe: I'm guessing it shouldn't be too bad, yes. That doesn't mean there aren't details that could do with some improvements of course :).
00:50:12 <sukhe> clokep: right. so let's get someone to test the progress of aleth's work.
00:54:44 <flo-retina> sukhe: btw, I'm fqueze in #tor-dev if you ever need to ping me there.
00:55:20 <sukhe> flo-retina: thanks! we really appreciate your help in getting this done.
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01:05:31 * mrphs jumps in
01:05:35 <mrphs> hello!
01:05:38 <sukhe> hi!
01:06:18 <sukhe> flo-retina, clokep: mrphs leads the Farsi support team at Tor. he is also a nice guy :)
01:06:20 <mrphs> so you have an RTL insnantbird available for test?
01:06:23 <sukhe> mrphs: https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1600
01:06:25 <instantbot> Bug 1600 nor, --, 1.5, aleth, RESO FIXED, RTL messages on the receiver side
01:06:58 <sukhe> mrphs: no, not yet. I think you have to apply the patch and build Instantbird to test it.
01:07:20 <flo-retina> mrphs: we don't have a version with the UI translated to RTL, but we recently landed in nightlies a patch that should improve display of RTL text in messages in the en-US version.
01:07:34 <flo-retina> sukhe: you don't have to build anything.
01:07:41 <mrphs> sounds cool
01:07:51 <sukhe> oh ok, cool
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01:07:58 <flo-retina> just download a build from http://nightly.instantbird.im/
01:09:10 <sukhe> mrphs: do you need someone to test this with? I can help you with that.
01:09:34 <flo-retina> Good evening/night/whatever fits your timezone all!
01:09:53 <sukhe> flo-retina: thanks, we will test this out and let you know
01:10:05 <mrphs> :( ftp.instantbird.com uses an invalid security certificate.
01:10:10 <flo-retina> you can comment in the bug, and/or file new bugs :)
01:10:23 <flo-retina> mrphs: there's no https version.
01:11:18 <flo-retina> the cert is likely valid for ftp.instantbird.org, but apparently apache isn't happy about serving that folder over https.
01:11:45 <mrphs> hmm
01:12:05 <mrphs> and there's no signature to verify the download
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01:12:20 <sukhe> we will get all of that later :P fire up a VM meanwhile!
01:12:36 <flo-retina> if you want to help us to get signed builds on Mac and Windows that would be appreciated
01:12:55 <sukhe> flo-retina: yup, that's part of the plan
01:13:21 <flo-retina> sukhe: for releases we put md5 checksums in the release folder
01:14:14 <flo-retina> but I see that more as a way to check that the files haven't been corrupted by accident during the download. I don't expect md5 checksums served unencrypted to be adding any security.
01:14:40 <sukhe> flo-retina: for Tor packages, we usually have SHA256 checksums and then we sign the checksum file. but it's fine for now, all this is for later.
01:16:53 <flo-retina> when I say "signed builds on Mac and Windows" I'm not talking about checksums that advanced users can verify, but about not having the OS prompt the user with a big scary warning about installing unverified software. There's no reason that signed checksums couldn't also apply to Linux builds...
01:18:05 <sukhe> oh right. we don't do that be
01:18:20 <Mook_as> I've had some experience with mac code signing, though it's just a command to run
01:18:47 <sukhe> we don't that yet for anything
01:18:53 <sukhe> (any platform)
01:20:09 <sukhe> Mook_as: yeah it's not difficult to do but I think there are some other reasons why Tor Browser Bundle is not signed, mostly related to having deal with Apple and signing up for them or something
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01:22:40 <mrphs> yeah. dealing with apple and microsoft gangs suck.
01:22:57 <mrphs> it would be great if you guys gpg sign the downloads though.
01:23:39 <mrphs> anyways, is there a way I can request for a new xmpp account with instantbird?
01:23:47 <mrphs> I can't find such an option
01:24:35 <mrphs> like if I want to open a new account on jabber.ccc.de
01:32:15 <sukhe> mrphs: no I don't think you can create an account.
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01:38:30 <mrphs> and it can't do a handshake with that server for some reason
01:38:45 <mrphs> Error: Handshake failed (-8172)
01:39:07 <mrphs> nss: ssl_nss_handshake_cb
01:40:33 <clokep> mrphs: So Instantbird uses libpurple's XMPP out of the box.
01:40:37 <clokep> You probably want to disable that.
01:40:46 <clokep> Do |/about config|
01:41:07 <clokep> Search for forcePurple and remove the jabber one in there and restart.
01:42:53 <mrphs> where do i do this about config?
01:43:07 <mrphs> oh just saw that
01:43:09 <clokep> Oh, if you're not in a conversation...that won't work.
01:43:11 <mrphs> in preferences
01:43:17 <clokep> Well that's not what I meant...
01:43:23 <clokep> But that will work too!
01:43:37 <mrphs> yeah got it. probably a bug? :P
01:46:05 <mrphs> removed jabber from that setting
01:46:13 <mrphs> but still getting SSL handshake error
01:47:05 <clokep> Did you restart?
01:47:10 <mrphs> nope
01:47:11 <clokep> You should now have an option to override it though.
01:47:15 <clokep> You have to restart.
01:48:14 <mrphs> okay found the problem
01:48:29 <mrphs> freaking CAcert.org error
01:48:43 <mrphs> I should have accept the certificate manually 
01:48:59 * clokep HATES certs.
01:49:00 <mrphs> but the link was too small and blue on a blue background
01:49:09 <mrphs> I was lucky to see it
01:49:29 <clokep> Yeah, I never said the UX on that was that good. ;)
01:49:37 <clokep> I can say that -- I did the patch for that. :P
01:49:37 <mrphs> sukhe: still around? 
01:50:30 <sukhe> mrphs: yup
01:50:31 <mrphs> sukhe: please add instantbirdtest01@jabber.ccc.de 
01:50:37 <mrphs> let's see how it works
01:54:08 <sukhe> doing it; stand by
01:55:06 * mrphs goes in standby mode |-_-|
01:56:58 <sukhe> grr, looks like I forgot my jabber.ccc.de password
01:57:00 <sukhe> give me a second
01:59:37 <mrphs> clokep: it returnes the proper error (untrusted_issuer) only after you make the handshake
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02:01:43 <mrphs> I think the right way is to show it before making the handshake, where it actually happens
02:02:26 <clokep> I don't think we have control over that, I think it's part of the toolkit code.
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02:19:23 <sukhe> mrphs: request sent
02:19:58 <mrphs> accepted
02:20:03 <mrphs> but I cant see you on my list yet
02:20:07 <sukhe> me neither
02:20:30 <sukhe> ok now we are in
02:21:24 <mrphs> error: trying to create a conversation; buddy not present: instantbirdtest02@jabber.ccc.de
02:21:34 <mrphs> prpl-jabber
02:22:00 <mrphs> source file: resource:///modules/xmpp.jsm
02:22:09 <mrphs> line 1139
02:22:11 <clokep> Oh bah, my jabber.org account isn't active right now...
02:36:18 <mrphs> okay so a restart did the job
02:36:36 <mrphs> and we tested Farsi chat
02:37:07 <mrphs> automatic RTL works just fine
02:38:05 <clokep> mrphs: Cool! :)
02:38:19 <mrphs> what else I can help with?
02:38:53 <mrphs> I wonder how difficult would it be to translate the whole app in Farsi
02:39:01 <sukhe> mrphs: yes, that was my next question
02:39:03 <clokep> We don't have THAT many strings...
02:39:16 <clokep> We also have a really crappy l10n process. :(
02:39:24 <clokep> https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Translation
02:39:36 <mrphs> is it on transifex (or whatever platform mozilla uses)
02:39:37 <mrphs> ?
02:39:40 <mrphs> oh ok
02:39:57 <clokep> No, we just clone http://hg.instantbird.org/l10n/en-US/ (well not en-US, but whatever language) and translate the files manually.
02:40:42 <mrphs> oldskool
02:40:48 <clokep> It works. :)
02:40:53 <mrphs> why not using something like transifex?
02:41:04 <clokep> Because no one has set it up?
02:41:27 <mrphs> translation is already a pain. transifex makes it much less painful
02:41:38 <sukhe> well we can help with that if it comes to that
02:41:40 <clokep> I wouldn't know, you'd have to ask Florian.
02:41:49 * clokep is l10n dumb.
02:41:56 <clokep> The issues of only speaking one language...which is English...
02:42:00 <sukhe> mrphs: can you check how much work does translation entail? like how many strings and all
02:43:08 <mrphs> I guess we might be able to get instantbird under the otf transifex umbrella 
02:44:40 <mrphs> https://openitp.org/localization/l10n.html
02:47:26 <clokep> Looks like it's a few thousand...
02:48:31 <mrphs> we can start with more important parts and take our steps one by one
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02:48:52 <mrphs> I think vidalia itself was >4k strings when I translated it
02:49:03 <clokep> I'd suggest talking to flo-retina more about that. Some might already be translated from thunderbird btw.
02:49:04 <mrphs> s/was/had
02:49:31 <sukhe> TB doesn't have Farsi. we thought it did but it did not :P mrphs translated TorBirdy for TB in Farsi but there is no Farsi version of TB
02:49:33 <mrphs> there's no Farsi thunderbird. so I guess not
02:49:43 <sukhe> but for other languages, yes, we can pick
02:49:49 <sukhe> like arabic TB is there
02:50:07 <clokep> Well hopefully everything in the chat/ directory is translated then -- that's all shared.
02:51:02 <sukhe> yeah it's looking good as of nwo. thanks clokep. 
02:51:05 <sukhe> s/nwo/now
02:51:28 <clokep> Sure thing. :)
02:51:38 <clokep> What timezone are most of you guys in btw?
02:52:03 <sukhe> clokep: GMT -5
02:52:21 <clokep> OK.
02:53:09 * mrphs is -8 but has odd sleeping hours
02:53:44 <mrphs> but I'll leave this window open
02:53:50 <mrphs> so just ping me if needed
02:54:24 <clokep> We all ready the logs btw, so feel free to ping us if we're not here.
02:54:56 <mrphs> sweet
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04:27:02 <instant-buildbot> build #1187 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [3build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/1187
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07:44:26 <instant-buildbot> build #1158 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [3build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/1158
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10:00:00 <flo-retina> If transiflex is like I remember (ie it doesn't show localization notes next to strings and/or reorder strings alphabetically), it's worse than no tool at all.
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10:02:42 <flo-retina> clokep: "We also have a really crappy l10n process. :(" I think you did a really poor job of selling our translation process here.
10:03:15 <flo-retina> lots of translators I've talked to are amazed that we have so much infrastructure in place to show them what they need to do, and help them test their work.
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11:34:19 <flo-retina> these complete updates all the time are annoying :(
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11:36:46 <flo-retina> FYI, today is the last day we have access to the old server, so if there's one little piece of data that you think we may have forget to transfer, please shout ;)
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11:40:03 <clokep> COPY ALL THE THINGS! :)
11:40:18 <clokep> Has everything been transitioned by you and Even now?
11:40:41 <clokep> Hmm...a couple of times now I've seen an empty row in my participants table.
11:40:46 <clokep> If I scroll it immediately disappears.
11:42:07 <flo-retina> clokep: everything, unless we forgot something.
11:42:42 <flo-retina> I won't pretend that everything works fine on the new server (I'm especially annoyed by the state of buildbot...), but most things are usable.
11:44:08 <clokep> flo-retina: Awesome! I had no idea you had gotten most of the stuff over (at least data wise).
11:44:17 <clokep> And this is to the "new" server, not to the "fast" server?
11:44:31 <flo-retina> yeah
11:44:47 <flo-retina> clokep: we had all the data transferred 2 weeks ago already
11:46:06 <clokep> Nice. :)
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11:46:21 <flo-retina> ah, the only thing that isn't already served from the new server is www-staging
11:46:31 <flo-retina> I have no idea of the state of that thing :-S
11:46:52 <clokep> We need that just for random links on the internet?
11:47:13 <clokep> (From when the 1.0 release was "leaked"?)
11:50:10 <flo-retina> clokep: we need that to test the changes we are pushing to the website repository before a release
11:50:41 <clokep> I thought that was www-staging2 or something. :)
11:50:55 <clokep> Also possible I'm just totally misremembering.
11:51:19 <flo-retina> oh yeah
11:51:30 <flo-retina> www-staging2 is because www-staging was leaked at the time of 1.0
11:51:37 <flo-retina> but both are served similarly
11:52:03 <clokep> www-staging2 reqiures credentials now IIRC.
11:52:18 <flo-retina> well, currently both are _not_ served similarly, as we have stopped apache on the old server to ensure people would yell at us if something important isn't transfered yet
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11:57:53 <flo-retina> btw, afaik http://hg.instantbird.org/l10n/locales-status.html works correctly.
12:00:41 <flo-retina> and that shows that we have ~3000 localizable strings
12:00:47 <flo-retina> many of them are likely in purple/ though
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12:03:54 * flo-retina wonders how many days he should wait for a review in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=885740 before backing out the unreviewed patch.
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13:32:38 <flo-retina> FYI, I just found all my accounts stuck in the "Connecting…" state :(
13:35:51 <clokep> flo-retina: That happened to me once recently too, but I had no STR. :(
13:36:36 <flo-retina> clokep: what happened here (while I was having lunch) was that the wifi access point I was connected to lost its connection to the router that actually has internet access.
13:36:58 <flo-retina> my SSH tunnel got broken. But the computer was still connected to the wifi, and still had an IP for its network interface
13:37:24 <flo-retina> not sure that's enough info to reproduce though :-/
13:52:21 <clokep> flo-retina: :( I don't think so...
13:52:51 <flo-retina> it all sounds like a timeout is broken in the socket code
13:59:15 <clokep> Can't be! That code is flawless! ;)
14:03:12 <flo-retina> and well unit tested ;)
14:10:34 <flo-retina> wow, there's someone here using Tb Chat.
14:10:55 * flo-retina thought everybody was using Empathy/Adium/Pidgin here
14:15:45 * flo-retina wonders which protocol is used (I would assume gtalk)
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14:30:38 * aleth wonders if Even is working on the Linux builder or if it's just been down by accident
14:31:15 <flo-retina> aleth: last I heard it wasn't really down
14:31:34 <flo-retina> it was just buildbot not starting correctly in the VM, or something
14:31:47 <flo-retina> I can't really remember if Even blamed buildbot or vmware's flakiness
14:31:50 <aleth> oh, someone tested the RTL stuff! :)
14:32:01 <flo-retina> indeed! :)
14:32:11 <flo-retina> and it seemed you've done a great job there ;)
14:32:55 <aleth> well, I didn't do much apart from poking the bidi team ;)
14:33:57 <aleth> smontagu fixed the bugs.
14:36:56 <aleth> I just had to find the bugs and add CSS once it was done :)
14:39:26 <flo-retina> aleth: are you saying you are becoming a manager now? :P
14:40:38 <aleth> umm...
14:49:10 <aleth> sukhe: http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/131114/#m177 It may be worth filing bugs like this on BMO
14:51:38 <flo-retina> aleth: I'm not sure what that message actually meant
14:51:59 <aleth> Nor am I, but he seemed to know what he would put in a bug report ;)
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14:52:07 <flo-retina> I don't really see how you can get the cert without starting to poke the server...
14:52:57 <aleth> My point is, this would have to be fixed in toolkit, and if there is an issue which can be described nicely it should be filed.
14:53:27 <aleth> flo-retina: Right, I have no idea if the complaint has merit either.
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15:08:03 <aleth> Looks like we might have to remove that osx ifdef :( https://i.minus.com/jiVAqWvfoWr15.png
15:08:35 <Even> just to clear things up, I haven't had time to work on the linux builder sadly
15:08:46 <aleth> Hmm, wasn't it the case that on osx this only happens in the blist? :-S
15:09:10 <aleth> Hi Even :)
15:09:13 <Even> Yesterday was the previous session of Node.js Paris so I had to pass a good part of my free time ensuring everything would be ok.
15:09:19 <Even> And sice then I'm awfully sick.
15:09:23 <aleth> Thanks anyway for all the backend server work!
15:09:26 <Even> *since then
15:09:26 <aleth> Hope you feel better soon.
15:09:31 <Even> Yeah, thank you.
15:09:38 <Even> Hope so myself...
15:09:49 <Even> I'm feeling wretched.
15:10:04 <aleth> Travel always is great for picking up bugs :-/
15:10:11 <Even> Could'n sleep this night. Was a total nightmare to play a little on words...
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15:11:59 <aleth> That's always extra frustrating, when you know you need the sleep to have a chance of feeling better so you can sleep ;)
15:20:47 <clokep> Feel better Even! Thanks for the work so far. ;)
15:29:28 <flo-retina> aleth: ouch.
15:29:33 <flo-retina> file a bug?
15:35:08 <aleth> flo-retina: I wish I knew /why/ this happens...
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16:10:58 * aleth is looking at bug 2208 so we can string freeze...
16:11:00 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2208 nor, --, ---, nhnt11, ASSI, Show a notification bar in the awesometab while log sweeping.
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17:06:00 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org cleared the Resolution 'FIXED' from bug 2113.
17:06:01 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2113 nor, --, 1.5, florian, REOP, Buddy tooltips have incorrect sizes
17:08:54 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 3048 on bug 2113.
17:08:55 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2113 nor, --, 1.5, florian, REOP, Buddy tooltips have incorrect sizes
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17:21:41 <sukhe> aleth: yup, sure, mrphs will be starting some of the translation to see how it goes.
17:23:56 <clokep> flo-retina: Btw those moz.build changes i expect to be in 1.6, not 1.5
17:24:48 <flo-retina> clokep: I don't have any target milestone expectation for them. They are not scary, in that if they break something we are likely to know almost immediately
17:25:02 <flo-retina> (well, we would if buildbot still did onCommits...)
17:25:04 * clokep goes to push them all.
17:32:07 * flo-retina wonders if clokep has found the url of our secret try server :-P
17:32:51 <clokep> My try server is at //vape. :P
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18:59:59 <aleth> Gah, the stats service doesn't close any of its directory iterators :(
19:00:14 <aleth> That should have been r-
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19:02:53 <clokep_> Who reviewed it? ;)
19:03:06 <aleth> I know...
19:03:36 <aleth> I guess it's karmic that I get to fix it.
19:10:13 <clokep_> :)
19:10:27 <clokep_> I can most likely review that.
19:11:20 <aleth> Really the whole thing should be in a worker, it would simplify the code a lot, but I'm not going to rewrite the whole thing at this point.
19:12:06 <clokep_> Do you have something else to do today? ;)
19:12:19 <aleth> Well exactly...
19:19:44 <aleth> There's also missing CSS :(
19:33:41 <clokep_> ?
19:34:11 <aleth> It adds a notification bar, and it's ugly.
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19:41:25 <clokep_> Ohhhh, I see.
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19:44:35 <aleth> What's the expected behaviour if we encounter errors on log sweeping?
19:45:06 <aleth> Should sweep again after a restart?
19:45:15 <aleth> Should we inform the user? (beyond the error console)
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19:54:23 <clokep_> aleth: No idea.
19:54:31 <clokep_> flo-retina enjoys making the UX nice though. ;)
19:54:54 <aleth> I'm talking about actual errors, not corrupt log files etc.
19:55:00 <flo-retina> clokep_: not sure what the context is, but it sounds like I need to hide ;).
19:55:34 <aleth> flo-retina: 08:44:24 PM - aleth: What's the expected behaviour if we encounter errors on log sweeping?
19:55:35 <aleth> 08:44:55 PM - aleth: Should we sweep again after a restart?
19:55:35 <aleth> 08:45:04 PM - aleth: Should we inform the user? (beyond the error console)
19:55:54 <flo-retina> aleth: what kind of errors?
19:56:37 <aleth> File system errors I guess.
19:57:00 <aleth> E.g. someone pulled out their USB with the logs on it
19:57:55 <aleth> The network went down on a network drive
19:57:56 <aleth> ...
19:58:29 <clokep_> The hard drive exploded?
19:59:00 <aleth> clokep_: I don't think we need to inform the user in that case ;)
19:59:03 <clokep_> In all those cases it's likely IB can no longer be reasonable running.
19:59:57 <aleth> Maybe so, I still need answers to my two questions...
20:00:12 <clokep_> aleth: Maybe, maybe.
20:00:13 <clokep_> ;)
20:00:19 <clokep_> I think we want to sweep again after a restart.
20:00:29 <clokep_> I'm unsure if we should inform the user (likely no)
20:00:51 <flo-retina> aleth: aren't we sweeping again after each restart anyway?
20:01:08 <aleth> flo-retina: No, we cache the results.
20:01:10 <flo-retina> I don't remember how we detect which logs are new
20:01:40 <clokep_> If the cache file exists.
20:01:50 <aleth> Right.
20:02:06 <aleth> The expected situation is that log sweeping only happens once per user (unless we make it happen again)
20:04:12 <aleth> clokep_: I think I agree we should just sweep again on restart if there was a problem.
20:04:21 <aleth> As we shouldn't cache unreliable results.
20:05:28 <clokep_> aleth: I agree.
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20:11:30 <flo-retina> aleth: "Really the whole thing should be in a worker, it would simplify the code a lot" I'm not actually sure.
20:11:44 <flo-retina> If we need XPCOM access, moving stuff to a worker makes everything painful.
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20:12:23 <flo-retina> for my log indexer prototype, I think I'll write the log sweeping code on the main thread, but using Task.js
20:12:47 <flo-retina> that should cleanup the code (remove all the promise callback handling...), but preserve xpcom access
20:12:51 <aleth> That should give almost the same simplification, yes
20:13:40 <aleth> You're right, even the stats service sweeper uses XPCOM to write the stats.
20:13:46 <flo-retina> and once I'm no longer doing prototypes, I think I'll want to factor the log sweeping code out of my completion stuff, my indexing stuff, and the stats stuff.
20:14:17 <flo-retina> well, it doesn't really have to use XPCOM for log sweeping. But for handling of list results, that's another story... :-/
20:17:13 <-- jb has quit (Connection reset by peer)
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20:22:02 <aleth> With promises, I'm never sure where to put the brackets...
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20:30:26 <clokep_> Everywhere. :)
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20:39:41 <flo-retina> stuck in "connecting" again
20:39:43 <flo-retina> I wonder if this is a recent regression related to a moz update
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21:00:28 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org cancelled review?(benediktp@ymail.com ) for attachment 2943 on bug 2208.
21:00:29 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org requested review from nhnt11@gmail.com for attachment 3049 on bug 2208.
21:00:30 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2208 nor, --, ---, nhnt11, ASSI, Show a notification bar in the awesometab while log sweeping.
21:03:16 <flo-retina> aleth: is there something you disliked in the string I suggested?
21:03:50 <aleth> flo-retina: I actually didn't see that comment before submitting the patch.
21:04:30 <aleth> I think it should be "conversation history" not just "history", and I'm not sure about "suggestions"
21:04:59 <aleth> Looks like we agreed on 'prioritize' ;)
21:05:09 <flo-retina> each word you add reduces the likelihood of the sentence being read at all.
21:06:13 <clokep_> I don't like that most of the sentences say "conversations" twice.
21:06:21 <aleth> How about "Learning from you conversation history to improve the ranking"?
21:07:03 <flo-retina> what's the problem with "suggestions"?
21:07:59 <aleth> It sounds a bit like we are suggesting to the user who he wants to talk to, rather than trying to provide what he is looking for
21:08:25 <clokep_> ranking of what? ;)
21:08:55 <flo-retina> "ranking of what?" exactly what I was going to say
21:08:57 <aleth> "Learning from you conversation history"? ;)
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22:04:01 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 
22:05:39 <Mic> aleth: what about dropping all the details and say something like "Optimizing the order of suggestions" for bug 2208 instead?
22:05:41 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2208 nor, --, ---, nhnt11, ASSI, Show a notification bar in the awesometab while log sweeping.
22:11:16 <aleth> Mic: Good idea. Or maybe just something like "Putting your frequent conversations at the top"?
22:12:57 <flo-retina> aleth: "frequent conversations" is too much detail, and wrong.
22:13:11 <flo-retina> we also weight recent conversations.
22:13:23 <aleth> Yeah...
22:13:35 <flo-retina> following Mic's idea, what about "Optimizing conversation suggestions…"
22:13:37 <flo-retina> ?
22:14:03 <flo-retina> aleth: I didn't really understand why you dislike "suggestions".
22:14:17 <aleth> Well, if everyone else likes it, it's probably just me ;)
22:14:19 <flo-retina> aleth: when typing in the search box of Firefox, it's also called suggestions
22:14:38 <aleth> I quite like "Optimizing conversation suggestions…"
22:14:38 * flo-retina doesn't know if clokep likes it or not
22:14:54 <aleth> Should we add "based on your history" to it?
22:15:17 <flo-retina> history of what? :-P
22:16:01 <aleth> "based on your logs"?
22:16:26 <aleth> Maybe that's not needed really.
22:16:51 <aleth> It does tell the user where the optimization is coming from though
22:17:14 <Mic> Logs are pieces of wood, aren't they? :P
22:18:10 <aleth> We use "logs" already in various places.
22:18:14 <Mic> I know...
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22:20:20 <flo-retina> aleth: I wonder how many more suggestions we need to end up deciding this notification bar isn't needed, and we should just throw a throbber somewhere in the UI :-D
22:20:39 <aleth> :D
22:20:49 <Mic> "[Instantbird is] optimizing the order of suggestions for new conversations."
22:21:10 <flo-retina> Instantbird needs coffee, and hope you ordered the pizzas!
22:21:23 <aleth> flo-retina: You know a webapp would do something cute like "Cooking your tasty conversation suggestions" ;)
22:22:05 <aleth> "Don't panic"?
22:25:39 <Mic> In large, friendly letters? ;)
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22:31:40 * aleth wonders why blist.css rules are being applied to the awesometab :-S
22:32:11 <flo-retina> because it started by "display the blist in a tab"?
22:32:36 <aleth> Heh.
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22:38:57 <clokep> flo-retina, aleth, Mic: I like http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/today/#m554, but what's with the funky Unicode character at the end? :P
22:39:19 <flo-retina> clokep: it's …
22:39:24 <Mic> That's an ellipsis, most likely.
22:39:36 <flo-retina> clokep: instantbot is just dumb
22:39:43 <clokep> aleth: "Instantbird is providing you with a towel"? http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/today/#m575
22:39:47 <flo-retina> or at least, not well unicode-educated
22:41:50 <aleth> Well, if everyone likes that, I'm putting that in there now I've fixed the CSS
22:42:34 <Mic> So "conversation suggestions" sounds fine for native speakers?
22:46:10 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org cancelled review?(nhnt11@gmail.com) for attachment 3049 on bug 2208.
22:46:11 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org requested review from nhnt11@gmail.com for attachment 3050 on bug 2208.
22:46:12 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2208 nor, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Show a notification bar in the awesometab while log sweeping.
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22:48:38 * flo-retina wonders what the 1.6 roadmap is
22:48:52 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org cancelled review?(nhnt11@gmail.com) for attachment 3050 on bug 2208.
22:48:53 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org requested review from nhnt11@gmail.com for attachment 3051 on bug 2208.
22:48:54 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2208 nor, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Show a notification bar in the awesometab while log sweeping.
22:49:05 <-- sukhe has quit (Quit: leaving)
22:49:20 <Mic> :)
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22:50:46 <clokep> flo-retina: You're not allowed to think about that until we release 1.5. :p
22:51:16 <flo-retina> clokep: ok. Let me think about 2.0 instead :-P
22:51:30 <aleth> No more version numbers! :P
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22:57:44 <clokep> aleth: Am I supposed to have a "yesterday"?
22:57:47 <clokep> In my logs...
22:58:30 <aleth> Why not?
22:58:40 <clokep> I don't have one, that's why I ask. :)
22:59:16 <-- dionisos has quit (Ping timeout)
22:59:38 <aleth> You never have one?
23:01:33 <clokep> Can someone make an extension that dragging an image onto a conversation uploads it to imgur?
23:02:16 * aleth would like that
23:02:34 <Mic> That would clash with file transfers, wouldn't it? ;)
23:02:44 <aleth> clokep: yesterday WFM?
23:02:54 <clokep> Mic: I'd prefer to have it be a Filelink implementation. :)
23:03:21 <aleth> Hard to diagnose from here...
23:03:47 <Mic> The findbar chevrons are correct in the log viewer but not the conversation window :(
23:04:09 <clokep> aleth: None of my MUCs have yesterday.
23:04:13 <clokep> My private conversations do though.
23:04:18 <aleth> clokep: That's very odd.
23:04:24 <-- sukhe has quit (Quit: Changing server)
23:04:36 * clokep blames you.
23:04:40 <clokep> :-D
23:04:58 <aleth> If I had a tie...
23:06:14 <clokep> Mook_as: How do I find how to import AttachmentAgent from https://github.com/LegNeato/bztools/blob/master/scripts/attach.py?
23:06:55 --> sukhe has joined #instantbird
23:07:33 <flo-retina> Mic: "The findbar chevrons are correct in the log viewer but not the conversation window :(" is your nightly up to date?
23:08:19 <clokep> flo-retina: He's right.
23:08:23 <clokep> Look at that screenshot.
23:08:39 <flo-retina> ?
23:08:41 <Mook_as> clokep: `from attach import AttachmentAgent`, assuming you're a script in the same directory?
23:08:53 <Mic> It's not. I'll update now...
23:08:57 <Mook_as> otherwise, you need to figure out how to get from where you are to where that is
23:09:13 <clokep> Mook_as: Why from "attach"?
23:09:15 <clokep> Because the filename?
23:09:19 <Mook_as> clokep: yep
23:09:19 <flo-retina> Mic: I hope that will fix it! (I checked in a patch this week-end to fix this specific issue)
23:09:21 <clokep> Why is it not scripts.attach?
23:09:42 <Mook_as> clokep: that would mean you're in a file in bztools (i.e. a sibling of scripts)
23:10:18 <clokep> Mook_as: I am. :)
23:10:26 <clokep> Well it's "installed".
23:10:49 <Mook_as> it might also be "bztools.scripts.attach", of course :p
23:10:58 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org cancelled review?(clokep@gmail.com) for attachment 3047 on bug 2250.
23:10:59 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2250 enh, --, ---, aleth, NEW, Participant tooltips should set presence info
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23:11:14 <clokep> Ah, you're confusing.
23:11:22 <Mook_as> yes. I thought you realized that by now ;)
23:11:28 <clokep> Mook_as: Thanks so much. :) Again, sorry for the n00b questions.
23:11:38 <clokep> When do I need the bztools in front? :-S
23:11:56 <Mook_as> clokep: no worries. (there's also a #python if you ever think that's too off-topic here)
23:12:10 <Mook_as> because https://github.com/LegNeato/bztools/blob/master/setup.py#L11 basically
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23:12:44 <clokep> Mook_as: Sure, but it's more fun to ask you ro my other python experts. :)
23:12:55 <Mook_as> its Magical Crap that ends up, post-install, with something that says "hey, if you want to find the bztools top-level package, look in, umm, wherever the heck I just installed it"
23:13:00 <Mook_as> clokep: I'm also in #python ;)
23:13:11 <clokep> Freenode?
23:13:17 <Mook_as> no, here. it has ~ 0 traffic
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23:14:23 <Mic> flo-retina: the problem with the chevrons is that they are shifted to the top of the containing box (button).
23:14:30 <clokep> It's surprisingly...awkward to add a room you just joined to the auto-join list. :(
23:15:10 <Mic> It exists on conversations but not for logs.
23:15:27 <aleth> Ceterum autem censeo Autojoin esse delendam...
23:16:03 * clokep wants a little pin icon or something that lets him add/remove it from the autojoin list!
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23:27:40 <flo-retina> oh, so it's a theming issue?
23:28:03 <Mic> Yes,
23:28:05 <Mic> it is.
23:28:08 <flo-retina> clokep: I wanted the exact same thing, and someone told me "no" because we should remove the auto-join thing instead.
23:28:18 <flo-retina> do you have a screenshot of it?
23:28:35 <flo-retina> clokep: but maybe we can just do it, and let others discover later that we did
23:28:56 <clokep> flo-retina: Did I tell you taht? :-D
23:29:00 <flo-retina> clokep: I would really like "Join automatically" with a tick mark next to it or not in the tab context menus.
23:29:06 <clokep> I think it would fit better with "session restore" than our current auto-join though.
23:29:20 <flo-retina> err, what?
23:29:27 <flo-retina> if session restore we wouldn't need any of that
23:29:44 <flo-retina> but I'm just not convinced session restore will happen in 2013
23:30:20 <Mook_as> I think chatzilla has that tick mark thing in its tab context menu :p
23:30:25 <Mic> flo-retina: http://i.imgur.com/7ClRK4l.png
23:30:53 <flo-retina> Mic: ouch.
23:31:06 <flo-retina> Mic: is it broken in the exact same way on the log viewer?
23:31:37 <Mic> No, it's fine there.
23:31:49 <flo-retina> O_O
23:32:12 <flo-retina> do you have DOM Inspector?
23:32:15 <Mic> clokep: do you see that too?
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23:32:27 <Mic> Sure
23:32:29 <clokep> Mic: Yes, sir!
23:33:13 <flo-retina> Mic: so with DOMi it should be possible to compare the CSS rules that are applied to these buttons in the log viewer and in the conv window, and find which rule is messing things up
23:33:16 <Mic> Ah! Maybe I found something!
23:33:39 <flo-retina> Mic: btw, the 2 button also seem messed up (they are higher than the "X")
23:34:22 <Mic> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/themes/tabbrowser-winstripe/tabbrowser.css#24 might be the culprit.
23:34:45 <Mic> And it would also explain why we had these bad looking buttons before where icon and text weren't next to each other.
23:35:22 <flo-retina> clokep: so I was actually not connected to tor-dev, because the account was stuck in "connecting" :(
23:36:53 <Mic> flo-retina: removing -moz-box-orient from the toolbarbutton rule indeed fixes the problem :)
23:38:02 <flo-retina> where is that rule coming from?
23:38:39 <Mic> It's in tabbrowser.css. I don't know since when it is there.
23:38:54 <flo-retina> hg knows
23:40:50 <Mic> Bug 768
23:40:52 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=768 enh, --, 0.3b1, florian, RESO FIXED, Make conversation tabs look like Firefox 4 tabs
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23:46:05 <flo-retina> aleth: do you actually want to hide the notification bar icon?
23:47:34 <flo-retina> aleth: the blist.css code theming the notification bar was specifically for this notification bar http://img.brothersoft.com/screenshots/softimage/i/instantbird-345179-1267781916.jpeg before we had a real status selector.