#instantbird log on 11 01 2013

All times are UTC.

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01:03:10 <clokep> "@clokep it lays out the messages all wrong for IRC. Great for IM but for multi-person conversations it is difficult to see who said what" https://twitter.com/EnglishMossop/status/396079716488052736
01:03:21 <clokep> Personally...I greatly disagree with that. :-/
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02:02:41 <clokep> flo-retina: I got a "Bad file number" error this time.
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04:02:59 <instant-buildbot> build #1022 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/1022
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04:23:05 <instant-buildbot> build #1079 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/1079
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07:35:29 <instant-buildbot> build #1145 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/1145
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10:06:34 <clokep> Hello
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10:40:21 <aleth> clokep: http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/131101/#m3 I'm always surprised when people say that, because it's not exactly difficult to change the message style...
10:41:14 <aleth> flo-retina: http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/131031/#m207 I've yet to look into finding out how difficult it would be to extend the XUL inputbox\
10:41:23 <clokep> aleth: My guess is he switched it to use simple too. ;)
10:42:07 <aleth> Another frequent comment is "colours look unprofessional" ;)
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10:43:44 <aleth> clokep: Hmm, if he was using TB, maybe not.
10:45:31 <clokep> aleth: I don't know which he was using...
10:48:56 <flo-retina> clokep: I think what he means is just that the default Tb message theme sucks
10:49:00 <flo-retina> and I would have to agree
10:49:07 <flo-retina> I'm pissed off whenever I see it
10:49:21 <flo-retina> (that may be a reason why I don't really maintain the Tb chat UI btw :-[)
10:49:30 <clokep> flo-retina: I don't even know if he was using TB...
10:49:41 <flo-retina> clokep: I think he tried Tb for 5 minutes ;)
10:50:10 <flo-retina> clokep: btw, I think "I avoid IM clients pretending to be IRC clients" would be worth a blog post in itself. (To prove it wrong.)
10:50:13 <clokep> I think I convinced JosiahOne at the summit to take another whack at that theme btw.
10:50:15 <aleth> The default TB theme is a bit wierd.
10:50:28 <aleth> clokep: Great :)
10:50:42 <flo-retina> aleth: it's Bubbles without bubbles and without colors...
10:50:54 <aleth> It doesn't know what it wants to be ;)
10:51:00 <flo-retina> because whoever was the manager of whoever disliked colors, or whatever
10:51:01 <clokep> flo-retina: Sounds like you have an idea for your first English post on your new syndicated planet blog.
10:51:54 <flo-retina> clokep: maybe. IRC sounds more like one of your favorite topics thought
10:52:04 <flo-retina> clokep: and I still have to decide where I'll host that English blog :(
10:52:08 * aleth is still waiting for clokep's "the web is not the internet" screed ;)
10:52:22 <aleth> flo-retina: you have a non-english blog?
10:52:27 <flo-retina> aleth: no
10:52:30 <flo-retina> aleth: but I need one
10:52:43 <clokep> flo-retina: Maybe. I don't know if I have enough for a blog post on that, but I'll write it down.
10:53:05 <flo-retina> aleth: I'll be in charge of GSoC next year, and blogging for that is more or less required ;)
10:53:05 <flo-retina> aleth: errr, yes. I have a French one.
10:54:01 <flo-retina> clokep: just try to think of all the features people would miss because it's not a real IRC client, then show how we handle them more intelligently than "real" IRC clients.
10:54:12 <flo-retina> clokep: show whois-on-hover, show nicks, convs on hold, awesome tab completion, ...
10:55:01 <flo-retina> and conclude that if people still have different opinions it's fine and we have no problem wiht it, but it would be great to receive feedback about what feels missing :)
10:55:17 <aleth> It's just people used to decades of IRC-in-a-terminal. Not different really to all the people who complained FX4 broke the UI...
10:55:50 <aleth> At least it doesn't appear we are missing features.
10:56:18 <flo-retina> aleth: well, plenty of people use ChatZilla
10:56:48 <aleth> Chatzilla is an IRC-in-a-terminal emulator
10:56:53 <flo-retina> lol
10:57:15 <flo-retina> aleth: so is mIRC then? :-D
10:57:23 <aleth> Pretty much ;)
10:57:42 <aleth> Nothing wrong with that... but not very exciting either.
10:59:36 <aleth> Should we ping wnayes about finishing the tooltip improvements? iirc that was "almost done"
11:01:23 <clokep> Yes.
11:03:50 <flo-retina> aleth: maybe we should "just do it"?
11:04:06 <flo-retina> aleth: IIRC the coding work was done, and what remained was mostly CSS tinkering
11:04:39 <clokep> As long as you leave the commit in his name, that's probably fine. :) I'd ask him if he'll have any time first though.
11:07:33 <clokep> bug 2057
11:07:34 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2057 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [JS-XMPP] ssl_error_rx_record_too_long SSL connection failure with swissjabber.ch
11:09:35 <flo-retina> bug 1221 (let's look at the last comments)
11:09:36 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1221 enh, --, ---, wnayes, ASSI, Redesign buddy tooltips
11:11:24 <flo-retina> looks like it's almost done and will need platform-specific testing, which Will may not be able to do if he doesn't have access to the 3 OSes
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11:25:49 <BWMerlin> flo-retina: I asked the gfire developer if they would port to instantbird and I think the answer is no but there is no reason (and seems it worked in the past) that gfire wouldn't work with instantbird https://github.com/gfireproject/gfire/issues/14#issuecomment-26858971
11:29:17 <flo-retina> BWMerlin: seems like the usual problem of "compiling prpl as add-ons is hard" :(
11:30:41 <BWMerlin> I have no idea how to compile anything unless there are step by step instructions so while I would be willing to compile and submit it I simple do not have the skills to do it
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11:35:01 <flo-retina> BWMerlin: well, you need to be able to have the 3 OSes we support, and have compilers for them...
11:35:54 <BWMerlin> seeing as I cannot even install Arch I do not think I would be able to compile for three different OS's
11:36:00 <aleth> Could he in principle add the code to IB and then compile IB?
11:36:12 <aleth> (for a single OS)
11:36:20 <flo-retina> aleth: that's the way we do it, yes
11:36:26 <flo-retina> aleth: but he needs to be able to compile ib ;)
11:36:38 <aleth> flo-retina: But we have instructions for that ;)
11:37:20 <flo-retina> aleth: I'm wondering if we shouldn't offer to build stuff at the same time as we build our nightlies
11:37:38 <flo-retina> like putting add-on prpls in a separate repository that client.py would pull if we have a specific option
11:37:44 <flo-retina> and upload the resulting files somewhere on the server
11:37:56 <aleth> Interesting idea.
11:38:10 <flo-retina> I think I would accept such a thing, but I'm not volunteering to create the build system related stuff for it
11:38:19 <flo-retina> (I would review though)
11:38:56 <aleth> BWMerlin: You could try https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Compiling as a starting point
11:39:20 <aleth> If that works for you, then adding the gfire code should not be too bad.
11:39:34 <flo-retina> aleth: well, except it may be ;)
11:39:44 <aleth> Except it may be ;)
11:39:46 <flo-retina> apparently the gfire guys says they have GTK UI
11:39:55 <flo-retina> there seems to be a way to turn it off
11:40:15 <BWMerlin> problem is flo-retina I would need so much help that it would practically no different from you doing it
11:40:17 <flo-retina> they may also use parts of glib that we don't provide...
11:40:21 <BWMerlin> and if you do not want to do it that is fine
11:40:29 <BWMerlin> your time is yours to spend how you like it
11:40:48 <flo-retina> BWMerlin: except if I do it you'll end up with a Mac OS X -only binary, which would be of limited use to you I suspect ;)
11:41:03 <BWMerlin> yeah that too
11:41:20 <flo-retina> BWMerlin: we are generally very willing to spend time mentoring people
11:41:25 <aleth> The good thing about doing it yourself is that you learn stuff ;)
11:41:42 <flo-retina> BWMerlin: it would certainly take me more time to explain to you how to do it _the first time_.
11:41:46 <flo-retina> but then you can do it again for updates ;)
11:41:57 <BWMerlin> that is very true
11:42:35 <flo-retina> also, it's very likely that others will also answer your questions, so I won't need to answer all your questions myself ;)
11:43:51 <flo-retina> aleth: well, a way to motivate us to improve the binary-prpl-as-addons situation would be the skype prpl ;)
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11:54:25 <BWMerlin> ooo skype in instantbird would be great especially if you could do voice and video
11:54:41 <BWMerlin> I could see a lot of people switching from pidgin 
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12:16:13 <flo-retina> BWMerlin: voice/video wouldn't be possible with Skype
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12:16:31 <flo-retina> BWMerlin: with XMPP (and maybe even IRC :-D) it should be possible as soon as we implement it
12:16:46 <flo-retina> (we haven't started, but we have plans for it, and the amount of work that needs to get done isn't huge)
12:16:57 <BWMerlin> that is good
12:17:02 <BWMerlin> that would mean google talk then
12:18:16 <flo-retina> not sure it would be interoperable with gmail unfortunately :(
12:18:25 <flo-retina> we would be doing it using WebRTC
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12:29:00 <BWMerlin> seen WebRTC mentioned but not actually sure what that means
12:34:18 <clokep_work> BWMerlin: It's a new standardized voice+video solution for web browsers and such.
12:34:35 <clokep_work> BWMerlin: Btw both flo-retina and I have worked at adding prpls to the build system, so there's at least two people you can ask. ;)
12:38:19 <BWMerlin> cool thought I don't know what that actually means
12:40:44 <clokep_work> It means "we've compiled non-standard protocols using Instantbird" :)
12:44:36 <BWMerlin> okay
13:06:02 <aleth> BWMerlin: You could try the link I posted earlier and see if you get stuck
13:26:14 <clokep_work> mikeperry: Are you aware of https://silentcircle.com/static/download/SCIMP%20paper.pdf ?
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13:38:39 <clokep_work> aleth: flo-retina We should go through the 1.5 blocking list
13:38:55 <flo-retina> and fix them all!
13:41:58 * aleth wonders about bug 2140 and bug 1877
13:42:00 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2140 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Nightlies depend on gcc >= 4.5 via libstdc++
13:42:01 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1877 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Enable gio after Linux buildslave distro is updated
13:42:13 <flo-retina> :(
13:42:17 <flo-retina> and linux 64 builds
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13:55:48 <aleth> flo-retina: I'm not sure I understand your comment on bug 2228
13:55:49 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2228 enh, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Don't handle incoming data synchronously
13:56:07 <aleth> When a prpl calls disconnect on the socket, it currently expects that to happen synchronously
13:57:17 <aleth> If we don't flush the queue before returning, we will drop that data on the floor.
13:58:56 <aleth> Is that preferable?
13:59:06 <aleth> (disconnect() before onStopRequest() is not an edge case for IRC btw.)
14:03:34 <flo-retina> aleth: I expect the data to be dropped on the floor, ye
14:03:34 <flo-retina> s
14:03:48 <flo-retina> like if it was still in transit in the network and hadn't reached the computer yet
14:04:54 <aleth> Hmm OK. I thought we didn't want to do that.
14:05:02 <aleth> Then in that case we should delete the queue on disconnect, rather than flush it
14:05:07 <flo-retina> I see onStopRequest as the async confirmation that the socket was disconnected
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14:14:49 <aleth> "I see onStopRequest as the async confirmation that the socket was disconnected" In that case wouldn't we not handle the remaining queue in onStopRequest either?
14:37:13 * aleth is going to rewrite a bunch of that stuff later
14:37:34 <aleth> Not enough time this afternoon...
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15:08:33 <flo-retina> aleth: I meant that only if the disconnection has been initiated by us
15:08:41 <flo-retina> aleth: if the server dropped us, we should handle that remains
15:09:20 <flo-retina> aleth: and as I said, it would make sense to notify the consumer of the disconnection asynchronously
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17:28:23 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org cancelled review?(florian@instantbird .org) for attachment 2978 on bug 2228.
17:28:24 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 2999 on bug 2228.
17:28:25 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2228 enh, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Don't handle incoming data synchronously
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17:48:24 <clokep_work> I should write an IRC URL handler. :(
17:49:54 <Mic> I'm really interested to hear what Mossop means with "lay[ing] out the messages all wrong for IRC".
17:50:44 <clokep_work> Mic: Yes, I should followup.
17:51:09 <Mic> I see you discussed about it later today.
17:52:22 <clokep_work> A little bit.
17:52:34 <clokep_work> aleth had a good quote in #chatdev that I tweeted. :p
17:55:21 <clokep_work> Mic: Can I convince you to write a blogpost about the awesometab as a feature preview for 1.5?
17:55:29 <clokep_work> I'll provide beer and crayons if need be.
17:59:52 <Mic> Chips, beer & crayons? ;)
18:02:50 <clokep_work> OK. Next time I see you I'll bring them.
18:06:49 <Mic> Haha, it's OK.
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19:09:44 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org cancelled review?(florian@instantbird .org) for attachment 2999 on bug 2228.
19:09:45 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 3000 on bug 2228.
19:09:46 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2228 enh, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Don't handle incoming data synchronously
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19:54:54 <clokep> Mic: So pretty much he doesn't like bubbles.
19:56:54 <Mic> Ha, I'm just writing a message saying "have your tried a different theme then"
19:57:06 * clokep wouldn't bother.
19:57:20 <aleth> Mic: Not possible in TB anyway
19:58:52 <clokep> aleth: It's still unclear to me whether he was using IB or TB.
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20:06:27 <Mic> There were some improvements for IB on retina screens, weren't they.
20:06:43 <Mic> Iirc nhnt11 fixed images of the tabbrowser?
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20:08:33 <clokep> Some of it was fixed, yes.
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20:34:27 <clokep> My awesometab is so slow. :(
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21:48:20 <flo-retina> clokep: do you know what's slow about it?
21:48:21 <flo-retina> Mic: 1.4 is awful on retina screens.
21:51:39 <flo-retina> I've got someone emailing me that he's willing to help to update the additional prpl Tb add-on
21:51:48 <flo-retina> I'm not far from replying that he now owns it :-P
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22:08:16 <Mic> flo-retina: the retina screen problems were metioned by Mossop by the way: https://twitter.com/EnglishMossop/status/396366867389886464
22:08:37 <flo-retina> has anybody told him to try a nightly?
22:09:32 <flo-retina> I see you have :)
22:10:43 <flo-retina> Mic: our retina support isn't perfect, but it's generally good enough that the issues aren't noticeable unless you look for them
22:11:04 <Mic> Can I quote that?
22:11:08 <flo-retina> (we need to fix the prpl icons, the status icons, and the buddy-icon placeholder)
22:11:44 <flo-retina> Mic: if you want, but it could sound more optimistic ;)
22:14:27 <Mic> Too bad we can't reply to a tweet from the logs :(
22:15:20 <flo-retina> want to fix that? ;)
22:16:16 <Mic> hmm, rather not. Not in the near future at least.
22:16:39 <Mic> It's bug 1975 by the way
22:16:41 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1975 maj, --, ---, nobody, RESO WONTFIX, checkbox for set username
22:16:43 <flo-retina> yeah, I guess there's more interesting stuff to fix
22:16:56 <Mic> Bug 1745
22:16:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1745 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Tweets in twitter logs don't have the full context menu
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