#instantbird log on 10 14 2013

All times are UTC.

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01:19:59 <arlolra> are there any plans to support RTL languages in instantbird? is that a thing already? all the listed languages seem LTR
01:22:06 <clokep> arlolra: I think that just means no one has translated it into RTL languages not that we don't support them.
01:22:25 <clokep> I know we fixed some bugs for people sending messages in RTL languages, but there could be other ones.
01:23:14 <arlolra> ok, great
01:24:28 <clokep> We didn't pick any of the languages that it's translated to, people have come to us wanting to translate. :)
01:24:37 <clokep> Well except French, maybe. I think Florian ensures that one is up to date.
01:24:54 * clokep is just a stupid American and doesn't know much about l10n though. :(
01:25:48 <arlolra> well the UI might need to be mirrored
01:26:00 <arlolra> reflected
01:26:18 <clokep> Possibly.
01:27:05 <arlolra> in your opinion, would that be a lot of work?
01:27:48 <clokep> You'd hope you could just throw a few CSS tags in there and it would magially work...but I don't believe that is the case. :)
01:27:58 <clokep> I don't think it would be a TON of work, but it'd be more than a 5 minut ejob.
01:29:28 <arlolra> seems reasonable
01:29:54 <clokep> (And I'm sure we'd like for those things to be "fixed" :))
01:32:05 <arlolra> clokep: I'm working on https://gist.github.com/arlolra/6969273
01:32:12 <arlolra> in case you have any thoughts
01:33:52 <arlolra> based on the first patch, do you see the NSS OTR implementation happening anytime soon?
01:36:34 <clokep> arlolra: "Remove libpurple dependence" doesn't mean anything...you can already build without it.
01:36:51 <clokep> It's not required, we might not have the Makefile flags to do it, but Instantbird will theoretially run fine w/o it.
01:36:57 <clokep> I think people have done it.
01:37:52 * clokep is reading the rest of that page...
01:38:56 <arlolra> right, that's what I meant by a minor amount of work ... maybe trivial is better. the point is that we don't want to ship libpurple
01:39:08 <arlolra> people want to see that it isn't going be anywhere near it
01:39:33 <clokep> OK. :)
01:40:04 <clokep> The changes to build that way could be upstreamed also btw. We'd accept that change (I actually think it's wanted we just haven't played w/ the script changes to do it...)
01:40:25 <arlolra> great
01:41:17 <clokep> arlolra: I agree with your assessment that a wrapper around libotr would be a faster way to start and we could include it in Instantbird without issue, I think, because we're already GPL, but I don't know the licesning issues of including it in Thunderbird.
01:41:40 <clokep> It would also allow someone to start working on the UI aspects (and ensure the correct APIs exist to deal with protocol agnostic stuff).
01:41:56 <clokep> While the NSS one is being developed. How long do I think that will take? I have no idea, my guess is "a while".
01:42:34 <clokep> arlolra: I don't understand "the ctypes wrapper could be converted to an XPCOM wrapper", any reason you feel one is desirable over the other?
01:44:30 <clokep> Disabling logging should be a very simple extension.
01:44:34 <EionRobb> I always read that as XCOM
01:44:41 <arlolra> I don't but mikeperry does
01:46:36 <clokep> I'd be interested in hearing why he prefers one over the other...
01:47:08 <arlolra> I'll ask and get back to you (unless he chimes in)
01:48:45 <clokep> Sure, I'll be around all day tomorrow.
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03:03:48 <instant-buildbot> build #1001 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/1001
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04:18:08 <instant-buildbot> build #1038 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/1038
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06:42:14 <instant-buildbot> build #1123 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/1123
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08:21:37 <flo-retina> I've just read https://gist.github.com/arlolra/6969273 I don't think "only JS protocol implementations means all traffic goes through nsIChannels" is true for stuff going through socket.jsm.
08:22:48 <flo-retina> I'm curious what "Deterministic builds" means here. We don't support PGO, so when building with -j1 I wouldn't expect much variation (unless the compiler itself isn't deterministic)
08:23:58 <flo-retina> I'm puzzled by the stuff that says that disabling logging would require maintaining an add-on; when from the rest of the document it seems pretty clear the builds shipped wouldn't be ours, but would be recompiled.
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11:35:49 <nhnt11> Hi
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12:11:47 <flo-retina> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=776798 apparently the JS JIT isn't enabled for stuff excuted off timers in JS modules and JS XPCOM components
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12:38:20 <clokep> flo-retina: That's not a fun bug. :(
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12:51:04 <aidz> Hello guys. Do you have any plans updating your Chat Protocols addon for Thunderbird 24+ ? Thanks.
12:53:50 <aidz> unfortunately it's currently dissabled as beeing incompatible with newest version
12:54:33 <clokep> aidz: We know it's currently disabled, we'll hopefully update it eventually.
12:54:43 <clokep> Idk if flo-retina has any timeline.
12:55:14 <flo-retina> I wanted to work on that yesterday. And was kept busy by other stuff.
12:55:18 <flo-retina> maybe next Sunday...
12:57:43 <aidz> oh. no probs. just wanted to ensure one of my favourite addon's not dead ;) Cheers!
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13:10:01 <nhnt11> Hi (with a stable internet connection this time)
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13:11:22 <clokep> Apparently not that stable. ;)
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14:55:29 <flo-retina> http://people.mozilla.org/~bgirard/cleopatra/#report=824081fa1a0a00950a6fc8e43780e145e8c7ca60 (not!)awesome profile. Average event lag is >2s!
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16:15:49 * aleth has an idea for the awesomejank, will test it later
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16:24:02 <aleth> That JIT bug is unfortunate...
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16:46:49 <nhnt11> aleth: I misread that stuff about sorting tags, sorry
16:47:56 <aleth> nhnt11: Now I'm wondering whether I should move that sort too, for consistency...
16:49:36 <nhnt11> I guess it's likely someone else will get confused too..
16:53:02 <aleth> So my jank fix idea doesn't work...
16:54:17 <aleth> It's just a small bugfix.
16:58:26 <flo-retina> aleth: you can still explain the idea; we may have another idea based on it :)
17:04:30 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 2217 filed by aleth@instantbird.org.
17:04:31 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org requested review from nhnt11@gmail.com for attachment 2946 on bug 2217.
17:04:33 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2217 min, --, ---, aleth, NEW, Newtab numberOfItemsToDisplay may grow much too large
17:05:11 <aleth> flo-retina: My (related) idea was that we may be triggering way too many scroll events if we are unlucky. But we don't.
17:06:08 <nhnt11> The awesomejank isn't related to scrolling, or with the awesometab in general from what I've seen
17:06:11 <aleth> This small bug I found along the way didn't cause any jank (to be clear)
17:06:17 <aleth> nhnt11: I agree
17:06:20 <nhnt11> It's to do with adding rooms to the list of convs in the stats service
17:06:55 <aleth> nhnt11: Have you been able to spot the cause in the profiler?
17:18:49 * flo-retina wonders what the status of bug 1511 is
17:18:53 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1511 nor, --, ---, benediktp, ASSI, Possible to add duplicate accounts
17:19:25 <flo-retina> aleth: it may be somehow related to the stuff you just commented in another bug, where you would add something on the accounts to get normalized names
17:19:37 <flo-retina> but maybe not, as that was apparently doing more complicated stuff with hostnames :)
17:19:51 <aleth> Iirc thought that patch was basically finished?
17:20:25 <aleth> At least I don't remember Mic saying he was blocked...
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17:28:16 <aleth> nhnt11, flo-retina: This fixes the jank problem for me. http://pastebin.instantbird.com/387757
17:28:43 <aleth> There is one bugfix in there and the change from executeSoon -> setTimeout
17:28:58 <aleth> I'd like to understand the magic constants better though.
17:29:02 <aleth> Anyway, please test ;)
17:31:51 <nhnt11> aleth: :O
17:31:56 <nhnt11> What a bug!
17:34:20 <nhnt11> aleth: Just the bug fix (without changing executeSoon->setTimeout) fixes the jank for me.
17:34:38 <aleth> nhnt11: Right, the bugfix does most of the work, as you would expect...
17:34:50 <nhnt11> aleth: Thanks a lot for spotting that.
17:34:52 <aleth> But it's not 100% smooth for me without it.
17:35:01 <aleth> it = the setTimeouts
17:35:12 <nhnt11> Is there a bug filed for the awesomejank?
17:35:18 <aleth> I don't think so.
17:35:22 <nhnt11> bug 2160
17:35:26 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2160 nor, --, 1.5, nhnt11, RESO FIXED, UI lags while stats service is receiving chat rooms
17:35:40 <aleth> ah :D
17:35:41 <nhnt11> I think the patch should be added to that bug..
17:35:48 <aleth> No, let's file a new one.
17:35:51 <nhnt11> Ok.
17:35:59 <aleth> It's too long ago...
17:36:12 * nhnt11 feels bad for not spotting this way earlier
17:37:02 <aleth> Easy to miss...
17:37:16 <aleth> I'll file a bug.
17:38:06 <aleth> aha!
17:38:33 <aleth> I can do without the setTimeout if I apply the patch from bug 2216
17:38:36 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2216 nor, --, 1.5, florian, RESO FIXED, The stats service shouldn't block the UI for more than 15ms
17:38:49 <nhnt11> Excellent.
17:39:02 <aleth> That's much more comprehensible :) And it means Yoric's constants feel right :)
17:44:05 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 2218 filed by aleth@instantbird.org.
17:44:06 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org requested review from nhnt11@gmail.com for attachment 2947 on bug 2218.
17:44:07 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2218 nor, --, ---, aleth, NEW, executeSoon calls pile up on addPendingChats, causing jank
17:47:18 <instantbot> nhnt11@gmail.com granted review for attachment 2947 on bug 2218.
17:47:20 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2218 nor, --, ---, aleth, NEW, executeSoon calls pile up on addPendingChats, causing jank
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17:56:44 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 2219 filed by aleth@instantbird.org.
17:56:47 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2219 min, --, ---, aleth, NEW, Adding messages shouldn't block the UI for more than 15ms
17:58:56 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 2948 on bug 2219.
17:58:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2219 min, --, ---, aleth, NEW, Adding messages shouldn't block the UI for more than 15ms
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18:06:12 <flo-retina> I guess my 15ms bug should block 2160 too
18:06:26 <flo-retina> aleth: congrats for fixing the issue! \o/
18:07:37 <flo-retina> aleth: have you tested bug 2219 carefully? I considered changing that constant at the same time I changed the one from the stats service, and then hesitated.
18:07:40 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2219 min, --, ---, aleth, NEW, Adding messages shouldn't block the UI for more than 15ms
18:08:03 <aleth> I've tested it. What do you mean by "carefully"?
18:08:32 <flo-retina> I suspect whenever we stop adding messages, layout is executed, so dividing by 2 that const may double the time we take to display the conversation.
18:08:49 <aleth> Hmm, that seems plausible.
18:10:24 <flo-retina> It sucks that the message theme system relies so much on the dom (especially the id="insert" part), otherwise I would like to do all that HTML generation on a worker, and then insert all the HTML at once
18:11:01 <flo-retina> maybe once we get e10s, we could do the HTML parsing, filtering, and theming on a remote iframe (ie a different process) :)
18:11:21 <flo-retina> (we can't expect that before Moz27 at the earliest)
18:11:31 <aleth> Yes, it's annoying we can't use a worker
18:12:59 <aleth> Your suspicion is correct:
18:13:30 <aleth> The total time to display a log goes up (not quite by a factor of 2, but very noticeably)
18:15:35 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 2219 to WONTFIX.
18:15:41 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2219 min, --, ---, aleth, RESO WONTFIX, Adding messages shouldn't block the UI for more than 15ms
18:15:56 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org cancelled review?(florian@instantbird .org) for attachment 2948 on bug 2219.
18:17:01 <aleth> flo-retina: I didn't realize e10s was so close...
18:17:15 <flo-retina> aleth: full e10s is still very far away
18:17:54 <flo-retina> but remote iframes (used for the thumbnailing of the about:newtab page; and for Social API) is enabled in current mozilla-central nightlies
18:18:11 <aleth> "frameworkers"?
18:18:17 <flo-retina> bah...
18:18:28 <aleth> (just asking if that's the same thing as a remote iframe)
18:19:03 <flo-retina> SocialAPI offers a workers do it's social provider, to do background stuff + handle communication between the various iframes
18:19:41 <flo-retina> this worker follows the API of SharedWorker which wasn't implemented at the time (it just landed a week or two ago)
18:19:46 * nhnt11 is reading up on all of this stuff :)
18:19:54 <flo-retina> and a partner required WebSocket there
18:20:09 <flo-retina> which should be available in workers (according to the spec) but isn't on the moz platform.
18:20:36 <flo-retina> So SocialAPI cheats by creating a hidden iframe (on the main thread :'() and stuffing the socialprovider workers there.
18:20:38 <aleth> So using a remote iframe there is a trick?
18:20:44 <aleth> Ah.
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18:21:17 <flo-retina> to make that less janky so that we can turn on multiple social api providers at once, the frameworker is being 'remoted' (ie. put in an iframe that lives in a separate process)
18:21:52 <flo-retina> and given that's one of the first 2 real use case for e10s (the first one being thumbnailing) in Firefox desktop, it's ... quite crashy ;)
18:22:26 <aleth> I guess it's one way to test e10s ;)
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18:28:36 <flo-retina> aleth: btw, do you still want your commits attributed to 'aleth' now that you are in the credits?
18:29:31 <aleth> flo-retina: Yes, just leave it, I'm used to it now ;)
18:32:18 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/aad26a42a4ad - aleth - Bug 2218 - executeSoon calls pile up on addPendingChats, causing jank, r=nhnt11.
18:55:04 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 2218 to FIXED.
18:55:07 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2218 nor, --, 1.5, aleth, RESO FIXED, executeSoon calls pile up on addPendingChats, causing jank
19:04:01 <instant-buildbot> build #491 of macosx-onCommit is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-onCommit/builds/491
19:09:48 <flo-retina> I just used the Join Chat dialog (:'(), (because I wanted to check the "auto-join" box) and when I pressed "OK" the dialog didn't disappear :(
19:10:10 <flo-retina> and it looks like the channel isn't in the auto-join list for the account
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19:29:23 <mpmc> Hey guys, I've got a really weird issue here, I'm running both bitlbee and znc on the same server all with different ports, loaded up instantbird to add an account only to find out that instantbird has connected to bitlbee instead of znc!
19:29:52 <aleth> mpmc: Umm... did you set the port?
19:30:23 <mpmc> aleth: on znc yes, 1987, bitlbee is the default 6667 etc.
19:30:51 <clokep> mpmc: He meant in Instantbird.
19:30:52 <mpmc> I can login to the znc webui on 1987 too.
19:30:59 <aleth> I mean, in the advanced account options
19:31:11 <mpmc> Yes, I set it to znc's port :)
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19:33:13 <aleth> Strange.
19:33:32 <nhnt12> flo-retina: What about a notification bar asking if you want to add a channel to the auto-join list (when you open one with the awesometab?)
19:33:47 <mpmc> aleth: Screenie http://derp.co.uk/21842, 
19:33:49 <nhnt12> (similar to how firefox asks to save passwords?)
19:34:04 <flo-retina> nhnt12: no. I just want the tab context menu to have an item that I can check
19:34:05 <aleth> nhnt12: Not for me, thanks...
19:34:12 <flo-retina> don't put something in my way for something I use less than once a month
19:34:52 * nhnt12 wouldn't mind, as long as it was displayed only the first time he joined a channel
19:35:35 <aleth> I just don't think we should add more autojoin features.
19:35:46 <nhnt12> Then again, why would I want to auto-join that?
19:36:08 <nhnt12> yeah, I was thinking of a particular case which I now realize is pretty damn rare :P (so never mind)
19:36:14 <mpmc> Do you guys think it has something to do with me using ssl to connect to the znc server? Thats the only thing I can think of atm.
19:36:36 <aleth> mpmc: Can you pastebin the beginning of the debug log when you try to connect?
19:36:50 <aleth> (context menu on the account -> Copy Debug log)
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19:39:13 <mpmc> just checking to see if it contains any passwords ;)
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19:39:48 <clokep> It doesn't.
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19:42:30 <mpmc> here we go http://markclarkstone.co.uk/debug.txt :)
19:43:42 <clokep> mpmc: Second line, it's connecting to the right port.
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19:45:06 <mpmc> Then wth is going on here >.<
19:45:14 <aleth> Can you check which port it /actually/ connects to? From the log, it seems unlikely there is a bug on our end
19:47:58 <mpmc> ZNC says it's connected, but I'm actually talking to the bitlbee server O.O
19:48:34 <aleth> Maybe installing two bouncers on the same server isn't adviseable? ;)
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19:51:37 <mpmc> Ah, I've figured it out, znc had the bitlbee server in the server list and was using that as default. I know for a fact I didn't add that server! Talk about confusing!
19:52:12 <aleth> Your debug log does say "Welcome to the BitlBee gateway"...
19:53:34 <mpmc> Yeah, thats whats confusing, I hadn't setup znc to connect to bitlbee! must be some weird auto-config thing..
19:53:55 <clokep> Hahah. That IS confusing.
19:53:58 <clokep> Glad it isn't an IB bug. :)
19:54:47 <aleth> :)
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20:05:19 <Mic> nhnt11: a bug for "aUIConv.target is null" is filed already for the conv stat service, isn't it?
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20:22:55 <nhnt11> Mic: Uh, bug 2181?
20:22:59 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2181 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Error when choosing a non longer existing conversation in the awesome-tab
20:25:44 <clokep> flo-retina: Did my recent joinchat.js change fix something? :(
20:26:40 <flo-retina> did you mean "break"?
20:26:53 <clokep> Well, it should have fixed osmething, but I meant break, yes. :)
20:27:53 <flo-retina> :)
20:31:30 <clokep> Looking over the code i don't see any issues...and there's no error in the console. :-S
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20:45:13 <flo-retina> clokep: does the dialog close for you?
20:45:19 <clokep> flo-retina: No. :(
20:45:32 <flo-retina> IIRC we already noticed a few times that an error in that dialog prevents closing and is never reported
20:50:55 <flo-retina> clokep: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/joinchat.xul#18 ondialogaccept doesn't report errors to the console
20:53:40 <clokep> That's annoying. :(
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21:34:33 <flo-retina> clokep: just add a try { ... } catch(e) {dump(e+"\n");} on that line to see what's going on ;)
21:40:01 <clokep> Yeah. :(
21:40:08 <flo-retina> this is the attic of my parents' garage before the week-end http://queze.net/goinfre/mamie/rangement-garage/IMG_20130616_202806.jpg and after http://queze.net/goinfre/mamie/rangement-garage/IMG_20131013_222118.jpg :)
21:51:45 <EionRobb> car parts in an attic?
21:51:55 <clokep> Where else do you put them? On a car?
21:52:05 <EionRobb> true, true
21:57:13 <flo-retina> so that's why I wasn't working on the Tb add-on, even though it's been a very rainy week-end
22:04:37 <clokep> flo-retina: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/388089
22:06:56 <flo-retina> ok
22:07:06 <flo-retina> I suspect the previous patch hasn't been tested ;)
22:07:20 <Mic> I think I spotted the problem there ;)
22:08:10 <clokep> :-D
22:08:12 <clokep> Oops!
22:08:15 <clokep> Can I check that in?
22:08:18 <clokep> I tested it this time. ;)
22:08:21 <Mic> :D
22:08:28 <clokep> r? from someone?
22:08:29 <clokep> Mic: ?
22:08:32 <flo-retina> clokep: yeah, rs=me and put the changeset link in the same bug as the other one
22:08:39 <clokep> That was my plan. :)
22:08:52 <flo-retina> thanks for looking into it :)
22:08:56 <flo-retina> I'm glad we have nightlies ;)
22:10:27 <clokep> I'm glad it was simple.
22:12:34 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/8d8cf40afa6d - Patrick Cloke - Bug 1980 - Fix breakage in Join Chat dialog from typo, r=fqueze.
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22:30:21 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 
22:40:05 <mikeperry> clokep: I have a slight dislike for js-ctypes because it increases the vulnerability surface available for UXSS bugs
22:40:38 <clokep> mikeperry: What is a "UX S S bug"?
22:40:43 <mikeperry> clokep: it makes sandbox breakout easier if all you have is chrome script execution (because you get to load arbitrary DLLs and execute arbitrary syscalls you wouldn't normally have)
22:41:12 <mikeperry> Universal XSS.. a cross-site scripting bug that allows you to run script in with chrome privs
22:41:58 <mikeperry> unfortunately more and more things seem to be depending on JS_Ctypes in the mozilla codebase these days
22:43:11 <flo-retina> mikeperry: I don't understand your point. If you have chrome script execution, you already have access to anything that can run on the machine with the user's permissions.
22:43:26 <flo-retina> mikeperry: or have you disabled the xpcom components that can launch processes?
22:43:31 <mikeperry> flo-retina: not if there is also a sandbox
22:43:50 <mikeperry> yes, apparmor,selinux and seatbelt can all do this among other things
22:44:09 <flo-retina> what are you calling sandbox in this context?
22:44:20 <instant-buildbot> build #492 of macosx-onCommit is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-onCommit/builds/492
22:44:56 <mikeperry> flo-retina: apparmor, selinux, or seatbelt profiles that restrict what the Firefox/Instantbird/Thunderbird process can access to only what it needs in normal operation
22:44:58 <flo-retina> I think earlier when you said something about sandboxing it referred to type="content" on the docshellschrome 
22:45:27 <mikeperry> yeah, unfortunately sandbox is a vague/general term
22:45:29 <flo-retina> *docshells
22:46:25 <flo-retina> can't the tools you just mentioned also restrict stuff available through ctypes?
22:47:26 <flo-retina> can the mozilla platform work at all without jsctypes these days? Aren't there dependencies on OS.File (implemented using ctypes) everywhere?
22:48:21 <mikeperry> well you get to run a whole bunch of syscalls that might either not have LSM support (Linux Security Module -- which apparmor and selinux are built on), or just have a huge vulnerability surface involved before LSM is even applied.. the ioctls are one good example of this
22:49:01 <mikeperry> FF17 had a couple minor issues.. I suspect FF24 is getting more dependent on it though.. have not tried yet tho
22:51:16 <flo-retina> I would be surprised if you could make Fx24 work with jsctypes
22:51:37 <flo-retina> *without
22:51:38 <Mic> I've looked through this document hosted on github, the one starting with "Attentive Otter" (whatever this means? Is it a project title maybe?).
22:52:00 <mikeperry> yeah. project codename
22:52:00 <Mic> Our conversation browser is type="content" already.
22:52:43 <mikeperry> we are working on finding an IM client to create streamlined Tor support for, or for use in a Tor IM bundle
22:53:09 <flo-retina> Mic: it's type="content-conversation" to be exact, but Gecko just treats content-whatever like content for the rights it gives to the docshell
22:53:24 <mikeperry> OTR is a hard requirement though... hence the discussion about how to deploy it (JS-Ctypes, XPCOM, or NSS)
22:54:00 <flo-retina> mikeperry: binary XPCOM will give you a hard time if you want to ship anything as an add-on.
22:54:12 <EionRobb> or can you compile libotr with emscripten and use it that way?
22:54:15 <flo-retina> mikeperry: if you are doing your own build, it should be OK.
22:54:25 <Mic> "Preferably everything is displayed in plaintext, with HTML disabled or at least sanitized with an XSS filter [5]. Disable JS and other features." sounds harsh. What do internet pages look like when you apply the same rules on Firefox?
22:55:34 <mikeperry> our firefox defaults are rather permissive because of the need for usability by default. but I think the impact should be less for IM?
22:56:33 <mikeperry> we are thinking about creating a "Security vs Usability" tradeoff slider for Firefox though: https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/9387
22:56:53 <flo-retina> mikeperry: well, maybe the problem is an ambiguity in that sentence. When you say "everything is displayed in plaintext", 'everything' could be either 'any data received from the network' or really _every_thing (including the user names, ...)
22:57:56 <Mic> "in plaintext, with HTML disabled" sounds like everything to me.
22:57:59 <flo-retina> mikeperry: not theming differently the usernames is IHMO both unusable and dangerous (makes spoofing of other people's messages possible in multi user chats)
22:59:07 <Mic> fIo-retina: true :)
22:59:41 <mikeperry> hrm, yeah that is true. but do you need JS for that?
23:00:09 <flo-retina> mikeperry: I don't think any of us argued against disabling JS.
23:00:12 <mikeperry> HTML seems fine.. JS is scary, again because of UXSS
23:00:15 <Mic> flo-retina: if you wonder why that wasn't highlighted... it's because it is not a lower-case L in your nick there ;)
23:00:17 <mikeperry> ok, great
23:00:35 <mikeperry> (UXSS and other things)
23:00:49 <flo-retina> mikeperry: I mean; not by default for everybody. Just for your specific user base ;).
23:00:52 <Mic> We've got a default theme that doesn't use JS.
23:01:10 <flo-retina> Mic: does 'Dark' still need JS?
23:01:30 <flo-retina> I thought we replaced most or all the JS stuff with CSS transitions/animations
23:01:30 <EionRobb> what's an example of js in a theme?
23:02:18 <flo-retina> EionRobb: grouping system messages together with a '+' button to expand them.
23:02:33 <clokep> EionRobb: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/themes/messages/bubbles/Footer.html?raw=true
23:02:35 <flo-retina> EionRobb: displaying the time that happened between 2 messages.
23:03:03 <Mic> Colorizing the bubbles depending on the users color.
23:03:24 <Mic> That was an example from our main theme ("Bubbles").
23:03:40 <flo-retina> Mic: we shouldn't need JS for that though :(
23:03:53 <EionRobb> you could do that in css with -moz-calc() and  attr()
23:03:56 <flo-retina> Mic: that's more a work-around for a mis-design of the original theme system
23:04:07 <EionRobb> the + expanding can be done with :target
23:04:09 <EionRobb> or :active
23:04:29 <EionRobb> time between two messages... hmm...
23:04:32 <flo-retina> EionRobb: I would be curious to see how you do that
23:04:44 <flo-retina> (the stuff you said can be done)
23:04:55 <Mic> EionRobb: the collapsing needs to be reversible.
23:05:14 <EionRobb> Mic: yeah, probably better with :target then
23:05:52 <Mic> We can collapse/uncollapse any number of these groups, not just one.
23:05:58 <Mic> I don't think that would work with target.
23:07:05 <EionRobb> hm.... probably unlikely
23:07:35 <flo-retina> Mic: well, uncollapsing more than one may not be very useful
23:07:56 <flo-retina> anyway; good night!
23:08:05 <Mic> Good night
23:09:10 <Mic> It's also late for me, so good night as well!
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23:34:23 <instant-buildbot> build #479 of win32-onCommit is complete: Failure [failed compile]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-onCommit/builds/479  blamelist: aleth <aleth@instantbird.org>, Patrick Cloke <clokep@gmail.com>
23:56:35 <instant-buildbot> build #488 of linux-onCommit is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-onCommit/builds/488