#instantbird log on 08 20 2013

All times are UTC.

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00:07:46 <qheaden> clokep: This is my changes so far http://pastebin.instantbird.com/298254
00:07:50 <qheaden> *These are
00:08:20 <qheaden> It is almost the same as the last paste I posted, but in this one, I am passing the whole request object to the callbacks.
00:12:04 <clokep> Alright.
00:23:04 <qheaden> clokep: Enabling JS-XMPP affects Google Talk right?
00:35:53 <clokep> qheaden: Google Talk always uses JS-XMPP.
00:39:01 <qheaden> clokep: Here is a new patch. What do you think about the XMPP changes? http://pastebin.instantbird.com/298267
00:39:32 <qheaden> I also made the showBuddyRequest() method return the request object. It seems that JS-XMPP stores the requests for later use.
00:39:47 <qheaden> In _pendingRequests
00:42:09 <clokep> qheaden: Give me a few minutes, I'm on the phone.
00:42:19 <qheaden> Oh. Sorry. :)
00:42:38 <clokep> No reason for you to know that. ;)
00:45:03 <qheaden> :P
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01:02:50 <instant-buildbot> build #440 of win32-onCommit is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-onCommit/builds/440
01:08:10 <qheaden> clokep: Should I ask you or flo-retina for a review of the buddy request patch?
01:09:23 <clokep> Both?
01:13:00 <qheaden> OK.
01:16:15 <clokep> qheaden: So it looks reasonable, yes.
01:17:43 <qheaden> Okay. I'm about to upload a patch.
01:21:08 <instantbot> qheaden@phaseshiftsoftware.com requested review from florian@instantbird.org for attachment 2737 on bug 2112.
01:21:11 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2112 enh, --, ---, qheaden, ASSI, Abstract Buddy Request Code Into jsProtoHelper.js
01:21:29 <qheaden> clokep: instantbot didn't show it, but I asked review from you too.
01:21:43 <qheaden> instantbot: Bad bot! :)
01:21:44 <clokep> OK.
01:21:47 <instantbot> qheaden: Sorry, I've no idea what 'Bad bot! :)' might be.
01:21:48 <clokep> He nly shows the first one.
01:22:07 <qheaden> I did put you first. :-/
01:22:13 <qheaden> Oh well.
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03:09:46 <instant-buildbot> build #946 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/946
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04:59:06 <Mook> oops, missed the r- mail over the weekend; sorry, turnaround for the new patch will be longer.
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06:12:17 <instant-buildbot> build #1043 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/1043
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08:10:27 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org denied review for attachment 2737 on bug 2112.
08:10:29 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2112 enh, --, ---, qheaden, ASSI, Abstract Buddy Request Code Into jsProtoHelper.js
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09:26:00 <flo-retina> I'm afraid we won't have mac nightlies this week :(
09:26:20 <flo-retina> the builder is at my parents' and the internet connection there seems extremely flaky these days
09:27:13 <flo-retina> I guess I should bring it at my place, now that the construction work is almost over
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09:50:55 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 2738 on bug 451.
09:50:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=451 nor, --, ---, aleth, NEW, Participants Need Context Menu
09:51:55 <flo-retina> ah :)
09:53:17 <aleth> Ready for the lunch break ;)
09:53:34 <flo-retina> I usually don't take lunch break in front of a computer
09:53:40 <aleth> Wise.
09:53:49 <flo-retina> and I've already done a review during breakfast this morning ;)
09:54:20 <aleth> There's no hurry, but also there's not too many changes in that patch ;)
09:54:32 <flo-retina> and it's an interesting feature
09:54:40 <flo-retina> (although it's less interesting if I can't get a nightly :()
09:54:51 <aleth> That is annoying, about the Mac nightlies
09:55:30 <flo-retina> hmm, the machine is a Mac mini, I wonder if I could ask my mother to take it with her tomorrow when going to work
09:55:39 <flo-retina> and I could bike to her workplace to grab it
09:56:09 <aleth> Yay for Mac minis :) More portable than laptops.
09:56:18 <flo-retina> :-D
09:56:46 <flo-retina> that would give us a nightly Thursday at the earliest
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09:58:30 <flo-retina> also, our buildbot-l10n stuff is busted too
09:58:47 <flo-retina> it seems that configure's --disable-compile-environment switch is broken since the moz22 update
09:59:02 <flo-retina> the strange thing is... it looks the same in comm-central and mozilla-central
09:59:07 <flo-retina> (I wonder if it's broken there too)
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10:18:34 <qheaden> Hi everyone.
10:19:59 <flo-retina> qheaden: good morning :)
10:20:14 <qheaden> I'm about to submit a patch for bug 2110.
10:20:18 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2110 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Formatted Incoming Messages Always Shown With Large Letters
10:20:27 <qheaden> That's one of the most annoying bugs. :)
10:23:16 <instantbot> qheaden@phaseshiftsoftware.com requested review from clokep@gmail.com for attachment 2739 on bug 2110.
10:23:22 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2110 maj, --, ---, qheaden, ASSI, Formatted Incoming Messages Always Shown With Large Letters
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10:24:59 <clokep> qheaden: I'm not reviewing that until there are tests.
10:25:10 <qheaden> clokep: Okay.
10:25:30 <clokep> Mostly because I'm not convinced the current way will work properly if people send size="7" in text.
10:27:25 <qheaden> clokep: You mean if they mention if in their conversation?
10:27:48 <flo-retina> qheaden: yeah, people are annoying, they will say just what your prpl can't handle properly ;)
10:28:16 <clokep> qheaden: My guess is your code 100% breaks on the following: <font size="x">size="7"</font>
10:28:19 <qheaden> That's what the first if check is for in _fixFontSize.
10:28:29 <clokep> Yes, I'm not convinced it works.
10:28:31 <qheaden> Oh I see.
10:29:14 <clokep> My guess is you need a more specific regular expression. :)
10:29:22 <clokep> But it's hard for me to know the exact behavior without tests. :)
10:30:15 <qheaden> The regex has to be specifc, but a bit general, as I don't know what other tags and the order of them can be included in <font>
10:30:39 <flo-retina> a better test in _fixFontSize may be enough
10:30:57 <qheaden> clokep: You want me to include the tests in the same patch or a separate one?
10:31:53 <flo-retina> I think if you find the last index of "<" before offset, then check that this substring starts with <font, it should be ok
10:32:10 <flo-retina> hmm, and check that there's no > character in that string
10:32:23 <flo-retina> qheaden: same patch
10:32:27 <clokep> qheaden: Same patch.
10:33:05 <clokep> I think the initial regexp can just be <font[^>]+size="\d" ;)
10:33:47 <flo-retina> clokep: that too
10:34:02 <flo-retina> but then the return value of _fixFontSize will be more complicated :)
10:34:48 <flo-retina> qheaden: can a yahoo message have parts of different font sizes? If yes, then your tests needs to check for that too.
10:35:53 <qheaden> flo-retina: I have no idea.
10:36:02 <qheaden> I'm pointing toward no.
10:36:27 <flo-retina> do you have the official yahoo client around to test it?
10:36:44 <qheaden> flo-retina: I do.
10:37:03 <clokep> I'd be surprised if you couldn't.
10:37:22 * qheaden goes on hating Yahoo's non-standard protocol.
10:37:39 <flo-retina> clokep: I know some libpurple prpls can't, but I thought that was only MSN.
10:37:48 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com denied review for attachment 2739 on bug 2110.
10:37:51 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2110 maj, --, ---, qheaden, ASSI, Formatted Incoming Messages Always Shown With Large Letters
10:38:06 <flo-retina> clokep: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/components/public/imIAccount.idl#152
10:38:07 <clokep> flo-retina: Yes, I think I've done it before in Yahoo using libpurple.
10:38:36 <flo-retina> alright, only MSN defines that silly attribute
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10:39:04 <qheaden> Yeah, it looks like it does support multiple font tags.
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10:39:32 * clokep can't wait for MSN to go away. :p
10:39:40 <flo-retina> yeah...
10:39:47 <flo-retina> clokep: but we will need Skype support
10:39:54 <flo-retina> which seems... hmm... difficult ;)
10:40:00 <clokep> I don't know if that's even feasible at all anymore.
10:40:19 <flo-retina> well, with the Skype API and the official client running in the background, that's likely possible
10:40:24 <qheaden> I still wanted to do that Skype project. :(
10:40:29 <aleth> Didn't they announce they were closing down their limited API?
10:40:40 <flo-retina> aleth: they deprecated SkypeKit
10:40:47 <qheaden> flo-retina: Wha?
10:42:51 <clokep> flo-retina: If we were to do that, we could just use EionRobb's libpurple code.
10:43:28 <flo-retina> clokep: well, except it requires glib to be able to start processes and threads, which sounds like something we don't really want to let libpurple do :-S
10:44:05 <flo-retina> although maybe we could link the related glib parts directly into that prpl, so that it's not available to the rest of libpurple.
10:46:41 * qheaden facepalms
10:47:03 <qheaden> It looks like the official Yahoo client does not send the ending </font> tag.
10:47:09 <qheaden> It just sends the starting one, and then the message right after.
10:48:54 * clokep isn't sure he's surprised. ;)
10:48:56 <aleth> What fun.
10:49:03 <clokep> Do we even care though? Won't that still work in Gecko?
10:49:19 <qheaden> Yeah it works, but it just makes the regex more complicated.
10:49:36 <clokep> I don't think you need to care about the ending </font> tag actually... :-S
10:50:04 <qheaden> So how are we to determine whether the size= is mentioned in a message, or as an attribute?
10:50:11 <qheaden> Should we check for the ">" character?
10:50:36 <qheaden> That still won't work, because what if I say in a message size="10">blablabla
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10:55:25 <flo-retina> qheaden: you need to check for "<font" followed by some characters that don't contain ">" followed by size=...
10:55:45 <flo-retina> (and c lokep gave you the regexp for that in his review comment ;))
10:56:20 <qheaden> flo-retina: Yeah, I see that regexp. I see that it does what you said it does. I still sometimes struggle with regexp syntax. ;)
10:56:36 <flo-retina> it's a write only syntax ;)
10:56:52 <clokep> Think of it as Perl.
10:56:54 <clokep> :P
10:57:11 * flo-retina prefers not thinking of Perl at all
10:58:06 <aleth> Perl requires too much thinking.
10:58:07 <EionRobb> flo-retina: if I added some #ifdef's for not spawning processes to the skype prpl, would that help?  from memory the gthreads code still worked?
10:58:28 <qheaden> :P
10:58:38 <flo-retina> EionRobb: I don't remember the exact situation. Does the API require you to spawn processes or threads?
10:58:46 <EionRobb> threads
10:58:50 <flo-retina> why were you doing both? :)
10:59:05 <EionRobb> the processes was just to help the users, so they didnt' have to spawn the skype proces
10:59:15 <EionRobb> could potentially be done with exec() instead
10:59:21 <EionRobb> or just #ifdef'd out :)
10:59:31 <flo-retina> ah, ok
10:59:45 <flo-retina> or done in JS
10:59:48 <flo-retina> or whatever :)
11:00:00 <flo-retina> if it's not required for the prpl itself to work, we can think about it alter :)
11:00:02 <flo-retina> *later
11:00:49 <EionRobb> kk
11:01:24 <flo-retina> EionRobb: was there anything else preventing this prpl from working in Instantbird?
11:01:37 <EionRobb> not that I remember, no
11:01:53 <EionRobb> it was a while ago that we had our butcher talk :P
11:01:57 <flo-retina> were there licensing issues?
11:02:18 <EionRobb> oh, there's already ifdef's for INSTANTBIRD
11:02:35 <EionRobb> http://eion.robbmob.com/FSF%20Email.txt
11:02:41 <flo-retina> or was it just that other Pidgin developers disliked Skype and didn't want to mess with it?
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11:02:53 <EionRobb> yeah, it wasn't "in the spirit" of the gpl
11:03:35 <flo-retina> ok, great
11:03:44 <flo-retina> Instantbird is definitely not in the "spirit" of the gpl either ;)
11:03:48 <EionRobb> lol
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11:04:33 <flo-retina> alright, I think we should consider it
11:04:42 <flo-retina> does it imply additional build time dependencies?
11:04:50 <EionRobb> no skin off my nose if you don't use it :)
11:04:51 <aleth> Is there a problem with doing this in an add-on?
11:05:24 <flo-retina> aleth: yes. Recompiling the damn binary add-on for each platform after each Mozilla update.
11:05:33 <aleth> Oh, binary, right.
11:05:52 <flo-retina> aleth: we could likely build it as an add-on installed by default though
11:06:00 <flo-retina> aleth: not sure if this has value or not :-S
11:06:08 <flo-retina> well, we wanted libpurple to be an add-on
11:06:15 <flo-retina> I don't remember what happened to that plan
11:06:24 <aleth> It just seems like the sort of thing e.g. some Linux distros would choke on, if they ever wanted to include us ;)
11:06:44 <flo-retina> iirc there were crazy build system complications due to built-in add-ons being built before tier-app (ie. before chat/)
11:06:58 <flo-retina> aleth: we could provide a configure flag to turn it off
11:08:56 <EionRobb> sorry, what's the deal with binary add-ons?
11:09:22 <flo-retina> EionRobb: they need to be recompiled each time the Mozilla (not libpurple) version changes.
11:09:31 <flo-retina> EionRobb: and they need to be compiled separately for each OS.
11:09:31 <EionRobb> why's that?
11:11:16 <flo-retina> EionRobb: because after Gecko 2.0 (Firefox 4.0) they decided to unfreeze all APIs to move forward faster and allow themselves some refactorings that were desperately needed. Binary compatibility of XPCOM components can no longer be taken for granted, so they purposefully break it with each update by including a symbol that checks for the version number...
11:12:25 <EionRobb> ah gotchya
11:12:26 <flo-retina> EionRobb: the only work-around is to load the component as a JS component, that uses jsctypes to load a binary library and initialize it.
11:12:33 <flo-retina> and that's non trivial.
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11:13:31 <EionRobb> ah, that makes more sense why google weren't going to continue supporting google gears on firefox
11:13:45 <flo-retina> wasn't it a plugin?
11:14:26 <EionRobb> depending on the OS, iirc?
11:14:37 <EionRobb> it was a xpi addon thing on windows at least
11:16:06 <flo-retina> are there useful google gears feature that aren't part of HTML5 stuff?
11:17:45 <EionRobb> websql :P
11:18:00 <flo-retina> haven't they decided it was a misfeature?
11:18:53 <EionRobb> "they" being w3c, not all the developers using it at the moment :)
11:19:16 <flo-retina> well, developers are never happy when an API they are the only one to use is removed ;)
11:19:26 <EionRobb> lol
11:20:13 <EionRobb> I see what you did there
11:20:30 <flo-retina> I haven't touched websql myself :)
11:22:04 <flo-retina> btw, I'm not/we aren't really happy about the state of binary add-ons (it was especially painful for me for https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/additional-chat-protocols/), but it's not something we control :-|.
11:25:12 <EionRobb> and a jsctypes loader for libpurple isn't on the cards? :)
11:25:34 <flo-retina> EionRobb: we are in the process of rewriting most of libpurple in JS
11:25:48 <EionRobb> there is that too
11:25:55 <flo-retina> EionRobb: XMPP, IRC, Yahoo, Oscar are or are soon going to be in JS.
11:26:28 <flo-retina> MSN will be just gone
11:26:38 <EionRobb> probably faster to rewrite a prpl in js than it is to recompile libpurple, right? :)
11:27:06 <flo-retina> EionRobb: of course :-D.
11:27:08 <EionRobb> how did whatshisname get on with reimplementing OkC?
11:28:07 <flo-retina> EionRobb: I think he said he would need us to poke him more often (hello dew ;)) to actually get started :-D.
11:28:41 * aleth pokes dew
11:28:56 <flo-retina> EionRobb: a prpl that's based on HTTP and JSON definitely makes sense to implement in JS ;)
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11:36:14 <qheaden> I think I finally got it. :)
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11:38:44 <instantbot> qheaden@phaseshiftsoftware.com requested review from clokep@gmail.com for attachment 2740 on bug 2110.
11:38:46 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2110 maj, --, ---, qheaden, ASSI, Formatted Incoming Messages Always Shown With Large Letters
11:43:53 <aleth> qheaden: Always unpleasant to basically have to write a hack around a problem you can't fix...
11:44:05 <qheaden> aleth: You know it. ;)
11:44:07 <-- EionRobb has quit (Connection reset by peer)
11:44:48 <qheaden> Yet at the same time, you feel a satisfaction knowing that your hack works. :)
11:45:58 <aleth> Take that, Yahoo font size barbarians! :D
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11:52:22 <flo-retina> note: the test in the patch doesn't check that things still work if there's no face attribute, or if size isn't the last attribute, or if there's a font tag without size attribute.
11:52:26 <flo-retina> Not sure if that's important
11:54:34 <qheaden> flo-retina: Okay. I'll keep that in mind.
11:55:06 <qheaden> Right now I have to leave. I will be back on early in the afternoon.
11:55:16 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com denied review for attachment 2736 on bug 2066.
11:55:19 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2066 enh, --, ---, nhnt11, NEW, New conversation tab should suggest chat rooms
11:55:54 * qheaden is now known as qheaden_away
11:56:02 * qheaden_away is now known as qheaden
11:56:22 <qheaden> I'll just keep my nick qheaden. People will know I'm away with the IRC info. :)
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12:11:54 <nhnt11> hi
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12:11:57 <nhnt11> clokep_: Thanks for the review
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12:14:16 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com denied review for attachment 2740 on bug 2110.
12:14:20 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2110 maj, --, ---, qheaden, ASSI, Formatted Incoming Messages Always Shown With Large Letters
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12:14:36 <nhnt11> clokep_: Do you think I need a more elaborate comment for kListRefreshInterval than "// 12 hours."?
12:14:44 <nhnt11> I think the name is pretty self explanatory
12:15:54 <clokep_> nhnt11: No, I didn't say that IIRC. :)
12:16:03 <nhnt11> Also I'm going with "_channelsPerBatch" instead of "kChannelsPerBatch", hope that's ok
12:16:21 <nhnt11> I know you didn't, it was a thought that occurred to me since that /may/ be confusing at the top of the file.
12:20:05 <clokep_> I think it's pretty clear from the name.
12:20:34 <nhnt11> clokep_: The last line in that comment means we send cached channels to the callback
12:22:56 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com granted review for attachment 2737 on bug 2112.
12:22:59 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2112 enh, --, ---, qheaden, ASSI, Abstract Buddy Request Code Into jsProtoHelper.js
12:23:17 <clokep_> nhnt11: Wait< i ahve to go look again now.
12:23:26 * clokep_ has no idea what you're tlaking about.
12:24:29 <clokep_> nhnt11: OK, you need to reword that.
12:24:39 <nhnt11> I'm in the process of doing so right now.
12:25:27 <nhnt11> clokep_: How's this? http://pastebin.instantbird.com/298868
12:26:44 <nhnt11> clokep_, aleth: In the API, I just realized that the boolean noMoreRooms should come before the room count in the argument list. Do you agree?
12:28:17 <clokep_> nhnt11: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/298869
12:28:32 <nhnt11> clokep_: Ok
12:32:12 <nhnt11> I'll be back in 30 minutes or so
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12:33:57 <aleth> nhnt11: I'm not sure what the convention is there.
12:34:09 <clokep_> qheaden: Btw I was hoping you would abstract the buddy icon setting/getting code a bit before worrying about caching...
12:46:16 <flo-retina> nhnt11: I think it would be nice to finish bug 2104 whenever you have time for a small patch. (Someone just asked me how come we had empty buddy icon placeholders for Bonjour buddies ;)).
12:46:20 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2104 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Filenames for buddy icons are not null-checked in the new conversation tab.
12:46:30 <flo-retina> I think we pretty much agreed that returning "" from the C++ code was a better solution.
12:46:31 <instantbot> c++ sucks
12:46:59 <flo-retina> and then revert the existing || "" hacks we have in JS (if we still have some)
12:47:18 <aleth> nhnt11: also the opacity fix and + button styling please ;)
12:50:01 <flo-retina> aleth: what's left on the + button styling?
12:50:20 <aleth> It's nonexistent for Linux, at least the overflow case
12:50:28 <flo-retina> (appart that it's too dark on Mac non-retina in the overflow case)
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12:57:51 <nhnt11> re
12:59:29 <nhnt11> flo-retina: I added it to my to-do sticky note :)
12:59:36 <flo-retina> ok :)
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13:03:27 <nhnt11> flo-retina, aleth: I do want to focus as much as possible on ranking for the next 2 weeks though. I have my first tests in mid september.
13:03:32 <nhnt11> clokep_: ^
13:03:50 <nhnt11> Specifically from the 13th-19th iirc.
13:04:09 <flo-retina> nhnt11: I said "when you have time for a small patch", not "when you have time to focus on something" ;)
13:04:38 <nhnt11> I get it, I was just mentioning.
13:10:28 <nhnt11> aleth: About the order of arguments in onRoomInfoAvailable, I'm pretty sure the count should be at the end so that callbacks that don't want to use it can omit it.
13:19:38 <aleth> nhnt11: I'm not sure that doesn't just apply to return values, and I'm pretty sure you'd have to label the parameter optional for that to work?
13:20:40 <nhnt11> aleth: Why?
13:20:51 <nhnt11> for example right now, the count and boolean are both omitted
13:21:42 <nhnt11> i'm not talking about the side that calls the function
13:21:59 * nhnt11 isn't sure how to make sense here
13:22:04 <aleth> Oh, I see what you mean now.
13:22:23 <nhnt11> :)
13:23:14 <nhnt11> I figured the parameters should be in order of importance, the count can always be obtained by doing .length on the array.
13:23:26 <aleth> The change sounds right anyway.
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14:05:23 <flo-retina> uh, the drawintitlebar attribute (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/XUL/Attribute/drawintitlebar) does nothing when it is just there (ie as part of the .xul file), it's only handled in its setter.
14:21:06 <clokep_> Do we use that?
14:29:04 <flo-retina> no
14:29:15 <flo-retina> I'm just hacking some SocialAPI stuff ;)
14:30:40 * clokep_ wonders why Instantbird doesn't have WebRTC support yet. ;)
14:32:06 <flo-retina> does it? I thought we were on Moz22 :-P.
14:32:25 <flo-retina> *doesn't
14:34:30 <clokep_> You know what I mean! :P
14:34:33 <clokep_> Hooked into XMPP!
14:34:41 <flo-retina> clokep_: btw I kinda have a plan in mind to get webcam support in JS-XMPP for Instantbird but it's unfortunately not trivial enough to get done in a single normal week-end
14:35:33 <flo-retina> First we need to place a button in the conversation UI (also needed for File transfer, but it looks like file transfer isn't going to be ready before webrtc video chat :-/).
14:35:43 <clokep_> Right.
14:35:49 <flo-retina> Then we need a way to enable/disable or hide/show it depending on the conversation capabilities
14:36:17 <flo-retina> JS-XMPP needs to be able to discover capabilities of other clients (the whole complicated service discovery XEP...)
14:37:23 <flo-retina> We need to define the stanzas we will use to initiate a voice/video session. I think we are going to do something based on Jingle, but likely simplify/adapt it. (Do we need to write a XEP for this and/or discuss with XMPP people? I suspect we do.)
14:38:02 <flo-retina> And only then we will be ready for the "interesting" (or rewarding ;)) work: place video elements in the conversation binding, exchange SDP back and forth.
14:38:19 <flo-retina> Ah, I also missed the UI to accept/reject a video call. (but I assume it will just be a notification bar)
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14:39:16 * nhnt11 thought he attached a new patch before leaving for dinner
14:39:20 <flo-retina> clokep_: not sure how much work you estimate there is for this ;)
14:39:27 <nhnt11> Oh, I have the create new attachment page open but never clicked submit -_-'
14:42:02 <clokep_> flo-retina: I didn't know anything about having to define a new XEP? I thought we could use the current file transfer mechasnism of Jingle.
14:42:46 <flo-retina> you want to transfer files? I thought you wanted a video chat :-S
14:44:29 <flo-retina> clokep_: well, we could try to convert the SDP to be as close as possible to existing Jingle stuff. But I would be very surprised if it could interroperate with any existing Jingle client (mostly due to the mandatory encryption in webrtc), so I suspect it's not worth bothering writing that translation code, and we could just put the whole SDP as CDATA in a single XML tag
14:44:37 <clokep_> Sorry, I meant video chat.
14:48:22 <instantbot> nhnt11@gmail.com cancelled review?(florian@instantbird .org) for attachment 2735 on bug 2066.
14:48:23 <instantbot> nhnt11@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 2741 on bug 2066.
14:48:27 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2066 enh, --, ---, nhnt11, NEW, New conversation tab should suggest chat rooms
14:51:24 <instantbot> nhnt11@gmail.com requested review from clokep@gmail.com for attachment 2742 on bug 2066.
14:51:28 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2066 enh, --, ---, nhnt11, NEW, New conversation tab should suggest chat rooms
14:52:15 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 2741 on bug 2066.
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15:16:24 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com granted review for attachment 2742 on bug 2066.
15:16:27 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2066 enh, --, ---, nhnt11, NEW, New conversation tab should suggest chat rooms
15:20:36 <clokep_> nhnt11: Sorry that bug was so painful.
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15:21:09 <aleth> clokep_: Out of interest, what would you have done differently on the API side?
15:21:34 <clokep_> aleth: Can you be more specific?
15:21:39 <nhnt11> clokep_: Thanks for the review
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15:21:55 <aleth> clokep_: Well no, you just mentioned yesterday you were unhappy with it
15:22:09 * clokep_ doesn't remember this.
15:22:32 <clokep_> I think I just find the API clumsy to use.
15:22:39 <aleth> http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/130819/#m76
15:22:45 <aleth> I might have misunderstood
15:23:08 <clokep_> aleth: Ah, I thought someone somewhere had said something about refreshing the data much more frequently. :)
15:23:36 <aleth> The alternative would have been notifications, which would also have worked, but ultimately not more elegantly I don't think
15:24:05 <aleth> clokep_: Probably referred to the 1h timer I asked to be removed ;)
15:24:21 <clokep_> I just meant the balance between it being async, but fast was kind of annoying. :P
15:24:32 <clokep_> And I'm not convinced I love the batching being done in the prpl. ;)
15:25:00 <flo-retina> so you mean I should go r- it so that you don't feel guilty about r- it yet another time yourself? :-D
15:25:24 <aleth> clokep_: I'm not convinced that will stay the way it is when we actually use it but I don't see a better way of doing it for now
15:25:41 <clokep_> flo-retina: I was just r+ing the current patch assuming the other one is r+d. ;)
15:25:52 <flo-retina> heh
15:26:36 <aleth> There's all kinds of potential performance issues that no doubt we will discover ;)
15:27:08 <clokep_> Like me being logged into a whole slew of IRC accounts? :-D
15:27:19 <aleth> That will provide a good test :D
15:27:44 <aleth> Especially the first time you open an awesometab...
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15:32:30 <nhnt11> flo-retina: About the Mac nightlies, I have a spare Mac sitting here ;) Probably not a great option but I thought I'd offer anyway
15:34:23 <flo-retina> thanks for the offer. I suspect setting up another machine would take more time than just relocating the current mac mini though.
15:34:40 <nhnt11> I figured as much.
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16:24:40 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 2116 filed by aleth@instantbird.org.
16:24:43 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2116 nor, --, ---, nhnt11, NEW, Newtab shows contacts for disconnected accounts
16:25:58 <clokep_> Hmm...speaking of that.
16:26:10 <clokep_> qheaden: What happens to the status of buddies if you disconnect a Yahoo account? They should go to Unknown.
16:26:54 <clokep_> aleth: What account were those contacts on?
16:26:57 <clokep_> What protocol?
16:27:23 <instantbot> qheaden@phaseshiftsoftware.com requested review from clokep@gmail.com for attachment 2743 on bug 2110.
16:27:26 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2110 maj, --, ---, qheaden, ASSI, Formatted Incoming Messages Always Shown With Large Letters
16:27:58 <nhnt11> clokep_: All protocols I guess
16:28:17 <qheaden> clokep_: They become unknown in JS-Yahoo http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/protocols/yahoo/yahoo.js#206
16:28:22 <qheaden> I followed the other protos.
16:28:22 <nhnt11> Awesometab doesn't look at the status of the account right now
16:28:59 <clokep_> It shouldn't display people that have an unknown status.
16:29:05 <clokep_> Which is what they should go to when the account is offline.
16:29:17 <clokep_> qheaden: Good. :)
16:30:11 <aleth> clokep_: With the caveat that in the future we will have IRC non-contacts (from previous PMs) with status unknown that should be displayed, because they may in fact be online.
16:30:53 <aleth> Unless we somehow add those to the IRC presence mechanism... still some open bugs around that anyway
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16:31:28 <aleth> But those bugs are still open because they're nontrivial.
16:32:05 <nhnt11> aleth: It would be great if that could be fixed on the prpl side.
16:32:19 <nhnt11> Anyway
16:32:20 <nhnt11> For now
16:32:34 <nhnt11> I don't think we should be using the unknown status to decide whether or not to display contacts
16:32:36 <clokep_> If they're unknown they should not be displayed.
16:32:45 <clokep_> I 100% disagree.
16:32:54 <aleth> nhnt11: For now you can just go with clokep's suggestion for contacts, and do it differently for listitems added from the logs
16:33:50 <aleth> That way you end up with (at worst) a special case that can be removed in the future.
16:34:16 <nhnt11> ok
16:35:23 <aleth> Not sure if your ranking WIP even crawls the logs yet...
16:35:37 <aleth> ie my caveat may be premature
16:35:39 * clokep_ finds http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/conversation.xml#322 kind of interesting for qheaden ?
16:35:52 <nhnt11> It doesn't, but it's next on my to do list
16:36:24 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com granted review for attachment 2743 on bug 2110.
16:36:27 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2110 maj, --, ---, qheaden, ASSI, Formatted Incoming Messages Always Shown With Large Letters
16:36:45 <qheaden> clokep_: That is quite interesting.
16:37:27 <aleth> Huh, I thought I knew that file quite well, but I never looked at that bit...
16:37:45 <clokep_> I'm sure there's a good reason, but it's strange that it's in the UI and not the prpl.
16:37:53 <clokep_> aleth: That's like the only part of that file I've ever looked at. :P
16:39:28 <clokep_> qheaden: So what's next on your todo list?
16:41:26 <qheaden> clokep_: Well, my semester starts in 4 days. What do you think is of highest priority at the moment?
16:41:35 <qheaden> I think the major bugs are out of the way.
16:42:07 <clokep_> Do all the different status work now? Including mobile?
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16:42:43 <qheaden> clokep_: I haven't implemented mobile. I can't seem to get a mobile status sent, even from the YMSG Android app.
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16:43:31 <clokep_> Hmmmm....interesting.
16:43:36 <clokep_> I've definitely seen it recently.
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17:03:13 <nhnt11> aleth, flo-retina: I'm currently working on a normalization algorithm for frequency that involves maintaining the mean and standard deviation of the frequency (where "frequency" is defined as the number of times a conversation has been started)
17:03:38 <nhnt11> Then each conversation is assigned a score from 0-9, depending on how many standard deviations its frequency is away from the mean
17:04:05 <nhnt11> That is, score = (frequency - mean-frequency)/standard dev.
17:04:12 <nhnt11> Do you think this is overkill?
17:04:47 <nhnt11> My main intention here is to avoid putting a conv above another just because it had a frequency of 100 over 99 (for example)
17:05:59 <nhnt11> I think recency will be simpler, I'm currently going with recency score=9-(number of weeks since last conversation)
17:06:32 <nhnt11> min(number of weeks since last conversation, 9) *
17:07:03 <nhnt11> Again, overkill? :P
17:08:17 <qheaden> nhnt11: Sorry for the random suggestion, but are there possible plans to sort based on number of messages exchanged? Sending more messages to a user might indicate that you chat with them a lot.
17:08:27 <nhnt11> qheaden: yes.
17:08:44 <qheaden> Cool.
17:09:10 <aleth> Filesize might be a quick proxy
17:10:32 <nhnt11> aleth: I'm also looking at the awesomebar's frecency algorithm
17:10:41 <aleth> nhnt11: Do you really need the standard deviation? Have you acquired a set of data based on your own logs and plotted it?
17:11:08 <aleth> If you graphically see the values per contact you should see what clustering you "want" and can find the simplest algorithm to come up with it
17:11:28 <nhnt11> aleth: No I haven't, I feel this will vary a lot among users
17:11:42 <nhnt11> Some people talk with a lot of different people, but not often
17:11:43 <aleth> It may vary a lot among users, but it can give you a starting point
17:11:48 <nhnt11> Some talk with a few people but very often.
17:11:51 <nhnt11> That's true.
17:12:00 <nhnt11> I'm going to get started on parsing logs soon
17:12:41 <aleth> Starting with the awesomebar algorithm sounds like a good idea.
17:13:50 <nhnt11> The awesomebar algorithm is quite complex imo
17:15:11 <nhnt11> Each /visit/ to a site is assigned a score based on when it was visited and how it was visited (typed, clicked from a link, bookmark, etc)
17:15:37 <nhnt11> It's weighted based on when it was visited and a percentage boost for how it was visited
17:15:46 <nhnt11> then they're all summed up
17:15:53 <nhnt11> To get the score of that URI
17:16:27 <clokep_> nhnt11: I think your algorithm is probably overkill, but it's hard without data.
17:16:35 <aleth> So, the part of that that might be reusable is the "weight based on when it was visited"?
17:16:42 <clokep_> I think someone originally suggested creating a way to plot your data or whatever...and then give it to all of us so you can see our data.
17:17:05 <clokep_> Also, "times a conversation has been started" is a very bad metric, it should be messages or file siez.e
17:17:15 <nhnt11> aleth: Yes, that's definitely reusable. but the thing is, I would have to remember each visit.
17:17:48 <aleth> You seem to have frequency and recency as variables. If you start with a simple frequency = total log filesize/timespan and somehow combine those to start with?
17:18:18 <aleth> Maybe that's enough for now. To go further I'd think you'd have to look at data to actually figure out what is wanted
17:19:05 <aleth> (note timespan would be the time since the date of first log entry)
17:19:49 <clokep_> Not the last log entry - the first log entry? ;)
17:22:43 <nhnt11> I wonder if I should call the scores "frecencies" considering that's what Fx does.
17:23:07 <nhnt11> I'm going to start writing an addon now to parse logs.
17:23:19 <nhnt11> (Just for the data, no computation)
17:26:46 <clokep_> Cool. :)
17:33:07 <nhnt11> aleth: The main reason I'm hesitant about using logfile size is that it would be temporary
17:36:35 <flo-retina> nhnt11: what are you calling "parse the logs" like if it was a difficult thing?
17:36:44 <nhnt11> flo-retina: Not at all difficutl
17:36:49 <flo-retina> nhnt11: each line is JSON, these files should be trivial to parse ;)
17:37:01 <aleth> nhnt11: What do you mean by "temporary"?
17:37:03 <nhnt11> Just that I haven't done it yet and need to
17:37:10 <aleth> Do you even need to parse the contents?
17:37:27 <nhnt11> aleth: do you think we could keep using just the file size as an accurate metric?
17:37:34 <nhnt11> Hmm
17:38:19 <aleth> The question is whether it is accurate enough
17:38:22 <nhnt11> That would also require going through log files again and again...
17:38:27 <aleth> Clearly for MUCs you'd have to be careful
17:38:29 <nhnt11> (on startup at the very least?)
17:38:30 <nhnt11> yeah
17:38:55 <flo-retina> "require going through log files again and again" why?
17:39:08 <nhnt11> Not going through, but getting file sizes
17:39:27 <flo-retina> only of files modified recently, right?
17:39:35 <nhnt11> yeah
17:39:44 <flo-retina> + you can do it when closing a log
17:40:02 <nhnt11> Ah that makes sense
17:40:24 * nhnt11 hadn't thought of that. duh.
17:40:27 <flo-retina> not sure how we would handle unclean shutdowns though
17:40:57 <nhnt11> flo-retina: Logs aren't lost on unclean shutdowns are they?
17:41:08 <aleth> They can be :(
17:41:26 <aleth> But it seems to be a Linux specific issue I should try to track down...
17:41:32 <flo-retina> nhnt11: you won't execute your code that's supposed to be executed when closing a log ;)
17:41:54 <nhnt11> flo-retina: But as long as the logs aren't lost, we can just do it at next startup
17:43:03 <Mook_as> unclean shutdown could lose logs (disk might not flush, if the machine lost power)
17:43:12 <Mook_as> but you probably shouldn't care about that
17:44:19 <nhnt11> Wait, I was thinking about Ib crashes, not unclean OS shutdowns
17:44:43 <nhnt11> I don't think I should be worrying about kernel panics or BSOD's unless my code is causing them ;)
17:46:02 <flo-retina> nhnt11: well, kernel panic, powerloss, or Ib crashes should have more or less the same results: your code won't run!
17:46:06 * clokep_ loves the phrase "kernel panics"
17:51:16 <nhnt11> flo-retina: Thanks for your WIP on bug 1584 ;)
17:51:20 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1584 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Indexed logs & efficient search
17:51:25 <aleth> nhnt11, Mook_as: The issue is that a power loss at 6pm Monday shouldn't cause you to lose all your logs since Saturday if that was the last time you restarted IB...
17:51:38 <flo-retina> nhnt11: np, it's just too bad I never got time to finish it :(
17:52:00 <flo-retina> aleth: that's a completely different issue
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17:52:11 <flo-retina> aleth: we shouldn't keep the same log files for several days
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17:53:06 <Mook_as> yeah, I'd hope we'd have per-day rollover of logs
17:53:19 <flo-retina> Mook_as: we don't
17:53:28 <flo-retina> Mook_as: the log is changed when you close and reopen the conversation
17:53:49 * Mook_as adds note to self...
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17:54:00 <Mook_as> (just don't expect any patches before the heat death of the universe)
17:54:06 <aleth> flo-retina: Right, but I could just as well have said "shouldn't cause the loss of all logs since 7am Monday"
17:54:27 <flo-retina> Mook_as: I think we discussed several times how we could do something way smarter than that... and never decided what the most awesome way was, so we never implemented anything :-S
17:54:41 <aleth> Anyway, it's pointless to speculate, I should just investigate ;)
17:54:47 <flo-retina> aleth: sure. I commented in your bug about that with a suggestion. Did it seem like it would help?
17:56:25 <Mook_as> yep, that's where just giving up and attaching a patch helps :p
17:56:36 <nhnt11> brb
17:56:38 <flo-retina> Mook_as: nobody cared enough to attach a patch
17:56:38 <aleth> flo-retina: It might, I'll have to try it
17:57:14 <aleth> I find it the behaviour really odd and I wonder whether it is due to some local network issue
17:59:29 <flo-retina> aleth: are your logs stored on an nfs drive?
18:00:26 <aleth> flo-retina: no
18:00:49 <aleth> Oh, wait, it's possible
18:01:08 * aleth sloppily read ntfs
18:04:19 <aleth> Definitely something like NFS, but I'm not sure when write operations get synced
18:18:24 * clokep_ remembers seeing some bug about Fx/Tb profiles being synced to NFS not working properly.
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19:05:38 <nhnt11> re
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21:30:29 <clokep> Hello. :)
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21:49:26 <nhnt11> Hi clokep
21:57:32 <clokep> Hello nhnt11.
21:57:34 <clokep> I'm cooking dinner FYI.
21:57:55 * nhnt11 imagines he'll have to learn to cook one day.
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22:07:08 <clokep> Cooking is easy, you just follow directions. ;)
22:07:39 <Mook_as> "microwave for 3 minutes on high"
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22:09:41 * clokep is making http://allrecipes.com/recipe/grilled-tilapia-with-mango-salsa/detail.aspx ;)
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22:16:12 <qheaden> clokep: Ship me a plate. I'll pay for the shipping and refrigeration. :) 
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23:06:45 <qheaden> LOL. My mom just discovered bug 2110 while chatting with someone on Yahoo. :P
23:06:49 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2110 maj, --, ---, qheaden, ASSI, Formatted Incoming Messages Always Shown With Large Letters
23:07:35 <qheaden> clokep: You gave it an r+, so I'm guessing it can have checkin-needed?
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23:23:58 <clokep> qheaden: Yes.
23:24:15 <qheaden> clokep: I'll set the whiteboard for you.
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23:31:01 <qheaden> Woah! It looks like BMO got a major facelift.
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23:40:44 <clokep> qheaden: Yes, I'm not sure I like it or not.
23:41:02 <qheaden> It looks cleaner IMO.
23:41:12 <qheaden> But that's just me. ;)
23:44:01 <Mook_as> you can actually switch back, I think
23:44:35 <Mook_as> ( https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=settings "Bugzilla's general appearance (skin)" )
23:45:17 * clokep wonders if Mook_as has any thoughts on https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=898760#c4
23:45:24 <clokep> I thought I had tried what Florian suggested and it didn't work.
23:46:36 <Mook_as> I thought it works with a warning
23:47:56 <clokep> Right, but we don't want a warning, right? :)
23:48:16 <Mook_as> Warning: ReferenceError: reference to undefined property (intermediate value).aSource file: javascript:%20alert(({}).a)Line: 1
23:48:37 <Mook_as> oh, I guess no warning with ||
23:48:38 <clokep> Even if you just use it in an if statement?
23:48:39 <Mook_as> interesting
23:48:50 <Mook_as> ({}).a || Date.now() -> no warning
23:49:12 <clokep> But if (({}).a) { foo } ?
23:49:16 <Mook_as> heck, String(({}).a||undefined) -> no warning
23:49:25 <Mook_as> String(({}).a) -> warning
23:49:51 <Mook_as> yeah, no warning in condition either
23:50:07 <clokep> Weird, I wonder what weirdness I did last time then. :(
23:50:09 <clokep> Thanks for the help.
23:50:12 <Mook_as> np.
23:50:25 <Mook_as> (I actually didn't know anything, I just tried it out in the old error console... XD )
23:50:37 <clokep> Yeah, too bad the new error console is awful. ;)
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23:57:29 * clokep mumbles about having to write tests.
23:59:11 <clokep> Mook_as: Any idea of how to test that those bits are working properly? If I est like postData to null...then I feel like I have no way to test it. :-S