#instantbird log on 05 27 2013

All times are UTC.

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00:55:06 <EionRobb> was it #security that clokep said I should hang out in if I have questions about libnss?
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01:51:23 <clokep> EionRobb: Yes
01:51:42 <EionRobb> oh there you are
01:51:44 <clokep> EionRobb: No idea what Timezone that is active in (and if they're US type people...this is a holiday weekend.)
01:51:48 <EionRobb> cos it be deathly quiet in there
01:51:48 <clokep> Yes, I Just got home. :)
01:51:49 <EionRobb> ohrite
01:55:10 <clokep> EionRobb: So I know kaie is a guy who deals with NSS< but I think he's in Germany...so offline at this time of night. :)
01:56:35 <EionRobb> I just wish I knew what I was doing, but the docs are so nonexistant that it's tricky :(
01:57:03 <EionRobb> someone else has already done it in C using openssl, but I can't use that obviously :)
02:01:19 <clokep> Right becuase Pidgin has stupid licensing. ;)
02:01:36 <EionRobb> :)
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02:57:28 <instant-buildbot> build #861 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/861
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03:41:29 <instant-buildbot> build #857 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/857
05:26:46 <instant-buildbot> build #957 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/957
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09:09:27 <eson57> Hi guys!
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09:11:03 <eson57> Hangouts smileys add-on is now nominated for public   :)
09:13:33 <aleth> hi eson57 :)
09:13:53 <aleth> always nice to see new add-ons :)
09:15:22 <eson57> nothing to brag about, but I thought it would be nice since people more and more tend to use hangouts
09:16:42 <eson57> hangouts emoticons get small and black with default emoticon theme
09:17:14 <aleth> Small and black? Really?
09:17:28 <aleth> Do you have a screenshot? (i.e. is that a bug?)
09:17:46 <eson57> yes... at least in my klient in win7
09:18:48 <eson57> I´ll see if I can produce a shot
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09:30:28 <eson57> here's screenshot... http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4239825hangoutsemoj.png
09:31:30 <aleth> That's unusual... they seem to use unicode characters as emoticons?
09:32:00 <aleth> So there is no way to easily type those yourself, you have to select them from a menu?
09:32:48 <eson57> no, as far as I know, you kan type them
09:33:33 <eson57> ...I don't actually use hangouts my self.  ;)
09:50:43 <EionRobb> that looks like emoji
09:51:36 <eson57> About the (manifest.inf)... I don't know how to remove it. It seems to be created from the "jar cf jar-file input-file" command  :(
09:52:43 <eson57> http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/deployment/jar/defman.html
09:53:45 <aleth> Must be an artifact of the Oracle jar then.
09:54:48 <aleth> jar files for mozilla purposes are just ZIP files with a different extension.
09:55:28 <eson57> aha... good to know, thanks
09:55:30 <aleth> I don't know the history of why it is used there.
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10:17:30 <panther7> aleth: hi
10:17:50 <panther7> new suggest: Ctrl + F for search in contact list ;)
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10:34:22 <nhnt11> eson57, aleth, EoinRobb: Hangouts does use emoji.
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11:48:17 <aleth> The next TB release will be 24, so we shoud probably do an IB/TB merge in the next few weeks
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12:21:25 <clokep> panther7: bug 1137
12:21:29 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1137 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Searching in contacts
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12:50:21 <clokep> aleth: Did you figure out your scoping stuff with jsms?
12:51:18 <aleth> clokep: Yes, Mic found the mdn entry. They have their own scope.
12:51:28 <aleth> Thanks
12:51:40 <clokep> aleth: They have their own scope which is shared among all instances IIRC.
12:51:57 <clokep> Sorry I wasn't here to answer. :)
12:52:37 <aleth> Right, how dare you go on holiday ;)
12:53:16 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org requested review from benediktp@ymail.com  for attachment 2461 on bug 1175.
12:53:21 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1175 nor, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Add-ons need a notification when a conversation is detached and moved to a new window
12:53:28 <clokep> It was worth it though, Mic stole a review. :-D
12:54:03 <aleth> You can always steal one back if you like ^^ :D
12:54:28 <clokep> If I'm going to do anything now it's read the log in bug 1971.
12:54:32 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1971 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Unable to authenticate with IRC server using LDAP authentication
12:54:42 <aleth> That sounds like a better idea.
12:55:10 <clokep> (And catch up on my bugmail...)
12:55:16 <aleth> It's not very enlightening though imho :-/
12:56:05 <clokep> I want a log from a working connection..
12:56:27 <aleth> Yes, that would actually give some answers...
12:58:06 <flo-retina> It's depressing how much bugmail there is to catch up with after only 2 days away.
12:58:33 <flo-retina> Or maybe it's cool, and I just need to stop watching everything on BIO + unCC me from a dozen bugs on BMO :)
12:58:33 <aleth> 2 weekend days no less
12:59:25 <flo-retina> at this point I'm almost sure that if a bug actually needs my input, someone will ping me about it, so maybe spending time on coding / reviews is more useful than reading bugmail
13:00:30 <flo-retina> I'm not completely sure of the reason for WONTFIXing bug 1975
13:00:33 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1975 maj, --, ---, nobody, RESO WONTFIX, checkbox for set username
13:01:34 <flo-retina> I think the bug here is actually that we shouldn't have to point people to about:config to edit account prefs, as it's too difficult and too error prone.
13:02:09 <flo-retina> and the real concern for the username thing specifically is: how do we show a UI that people needing it can discover, and that isn't confusing for people who have no need for it
13:02:16 <aleth> (and takes up too much time, even if it doesn't happen that often)
13:02:48 <flo-retina> aleth: well, I don't mind that doing it takes time. I do mind that it takes *our time* to explain it over and over again :)
13:03:08 <aleth> flo-retina: that was whose time I was referring to ;)
13:03:38 <flo-retina> also "other clients use the client name too" isn't a good reason. It's an excuse. The real reason for wanting it to stay Instantbird by default and for most Instantbird users is that we like seeing when someone enters if they use Instantbird for IRC :)
13:03:59 <clokep> flo-retina: I agree there's an issue we need to solve, I just don't think the suggestion in bug 1975 is reasonable.
13:04:03 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1975 maj, --, ---, nobody, RESO WONTFIX, checkbox for set username
13:04:17 <clokep> flo-retina: The real reasoning, IMO, is that "most" users don't care what their username is, they just want it to work.
13:04:51 <clokep> I.e. bug 1975 suggests adding ANOTHER option in this case, that seems much *MORE* confusing to me.
13:05:04 <flo-retina> clokep: I think the suggestion in that bug is more reasonable than showing a text box in the advanced pref (as all users would then wonder what it is and/or remove the "Instantbird" default value that we like)
13:05:07 <clokep> If it was to just make the username field visible? I'd probably accept a patch for that.
13:05:41 <clokep> It could also be reasonable to use the nick by default.
13:06:14 <flo-retina> it would be reasonable, but I would dislike it ;)
13:08:06 <flo-retina> I think a checkbox with a label like "Use nick as username for bouncer compatibility" wouldn't be too bad (ie most people wouldn't click it)
13:09:17 <panther7> clokep: thnaks
13:09:53 <aleth> That was my thought too (ie. brings up less questions like "what is this username field and why is it set to 'Instantbird')
13:10:55 <aleth> Of course there may be bouncers that require the username to be set to something other than the nick, in which case we wouldn't gain much. idk.
13:11:00 <flo-retina> btw, I would be curious to know how ZNC handles multiple accounts
13:11:19 <flo-retina> as if it actually requires the user to edit the username for the different accounts, the checkbox idea wouldn't work (for some people at least)
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13:16:18 <clokep> Different bouncers do things idfferently too. :-/
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13:22:14 <flo-retina> clokep: I would totally believe that :)
13:22:47 <flo-retina> I'm just under the impression that what people ask us here for bouncers (or for ZNC really) is more or less always the same thing.
13:23:07 <flo-retina> anyway, time to go kayaking, bbl
13:28:07 <clokep> Right.
13:28:23 <clokep> I couldn't get ZNC to work either btw. ;) But I don't know if that was a problem setting up Instantbird or ZNC> :)
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15:41:00 * atuljangra cries in pain because of all the stuff that take most of his time :(
15:44:06 <atuljangra> flo-retina: Regarding Instantbird on Android, do core people like you, clokep, mconley Even want to do this?
15:44:30 <mconley> whoa whoa whoa
15:44:34 <mconley> when did I become core people? :)
15:45:32 <atuljangra> mconley: you hang around here more often than volunteers and you work at Mozilla, and I know you are awesome at what you do, thus core :P
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15:45:40 <mconley> \o/
15:45:59 <mconley> atuljangra: InstantBird on Android... that sounds like a boatload of work
15:46:05 <mconley> er
15:46:05 <mconley> sprry
15:46:08 <mconley> Instantbird
15:46:10 <mconley> with the lowercase b
15:46:36 <mconley> new UI - if you wanted good start-up time, you'd need to do what Fennec did and drop XUL for Native
15:46:43 <mconley> and then do message passing
15:47:04 <atuljangra> yes, and that's why I wanted to know if you guys want it, cos IB and TB can be ported in parallel. But do we want it. 
15:47:17 <atuljangra> yes, XUL stuff is pretty slow.
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15:48:34 <mconley> Getting Thunderbird on Android is another challenge because Thunderbird is *highly complex*, and would suck battery and space like a mofo
15:48:45 <mconley> you'd probably be better off porting the Gaia email client to Android
15:48:52 <mconley> starting small and building up its complexity
15:49:02 <mconley> as opposed to trying to jam TB onto a phone
15:49:12 <atuljangra> oh okay. That sounds good. 
15:49:13 <mconley> like trying to park a bus in a hotdog bun. :)
15:49:16 * nhnt11 thinks Android's default Email client does the job for mobile purposes
15:49:55 <atuljangra> There is a need for new email client, default email client won't be able to catch up with the advancement in mobile technology.
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15:50:33 <nhnt11> I dunno. I use only Gmail and the Gmail app does everything I need it to do, and does it well.
15:50:52 <atuljangra> mconley: in Firefox OS, how is Insant messaging implemented.
15:50:58 <atuljangra> nhnt11: yes, we use gmail, 
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15:51:30 <mconley> atuljangra: I'm not sure there's an IM client...
15:51:34 <atuljangra> and (obviously) gmail app on android would do the work for me, but what about other email addresses that we are associated with.
15:51:35 <mconley> at least, not a default one
15:51:42 <mconley> atuljangra: but theoretically one could use the TCP API
15:52:09 <atuljangra> mconley: oh, but they must be planning to have one sometime?
15:52:11 <nhnt11> atuljangra: The only other email account I need to access regularly is my uni account, and they shifted that to Gmail too so it works from the app,
15:52:13 <nhnt11> .*
15:52:13 <mconley> atuljangra: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/TCPSocket
15:52:24 <atuljangra> mconley: Thanks :)
15:52:31 <mconley> atuljangra: possibly, though someone from the community could beat them to it. :)
15:53:52 <atuljangra> nhnt11: think of all the people, like mconley himself will be having 3-4 different email addresses. Think of the functionality and ease of handling conversation that TB provides on your phone, wouldn't that be awesome.
15:54:10 <atuljangra> mconley: where will you be for the summit this year?
15:54:16 * atuljangra wants to meet mconley :s
15:54:44 <mconley> atuljangra: I have no idea. :) I'd like to meet you too. Where is the summit and when? I'm neck deep in Australis stuff and I have no idea what's happening
15:55:50 <atuljangra> oh, it's on October, you guys will be knowing it by the end of the June I guess. I'll be at Santa Clara, California. There are two more places, Toronto and Brussels.
15:56:09 <mconley> cooooool
15:56:17 <mconley> atuljangra: well, I hope I get to see you. :)
15:56:25 <nhnt11> atuljangra: oooh. Vacation to the US? Or work?
15:56:30 <atuljangra> same here :)
15:57:08 <atuljangra> nhnt11: Mozilla Summit 2013
15:57:20 <nhnt11> Nice.
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15:57:52 <atuljangra> :)
15:58:37 * nhnt11 has a lot of old friends in the santa clara region :(
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16:15:52 <flo-retina> atuljangra: for Instantbird on Android, I would be very happy to support someone doing it, but I wouldn't do it myself (I don't feel like implementing a UI in Java ;)).
16:15:53 <flo-retina> Some battery life concerns mconley expressed for Tb would be true for Ib too.
16:15:54 <flo-retina> Maybe even more so, as an email client can check for new emails at periodic intervals, but an IM client (using desktop IM protocols) needs to keep at least one TCP socket alive all the time per IM account.
16:16:48 <flo-retina> for Firefox OS, I haven't heard of any plan to integrate IM by default, so I guess they are hoping the community will fill the gap. (I haven't really asked to anybody in FxOS management though)
16:18:28 <atuljangra> flo-retina: oh, but I personally believe that IM should be an integrated part of OS. 
16:18:38 * atuljangra many things should be, thugh
16:19:50 <atuljangra> flo-retina: I'm not updated with FxOS development, I'll update myself in a day or two,and then I would like to discuss some these OS integration of some services in detail.
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16:21:32 * atuljangra woaaahhh!! just saw a fellow developer of mine unboxing Smartphone Firefox OS - Keon.
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16:40:48 <nhnt11> atuljangra: Where are you right now?
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17:45:18 <qheaden> Hello all.
17:47:12 <nhnt11> Hello qheaden
17:48:43 <nhnt11> qheaden: I worked a bit on that snap to screen edges add-on, but apparently when the window is moved by dragging the titlebar, mutation events for screenX/Y aren't fired immediately :/
17:53:43 <qheaden> nhnt11: Aww, that's too bad. Well, I'm happy you are still working on it.
17:54:30 <nhnt11> qheaden: It works well enough for me on Mac, since I can drag it by the bottom instead of the titlebar ;) (everything other than the titlebar can listen for mousevents)
17:54:51 <nhnt11> Also dragging the window and then clicking anywhere on it works. :S
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18:39:47 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 
18:40:07 <Mic> Hi!
18:41:44 <Mook_as> Ho!
18:59:44 <nhnt11> Hi
19:01:08 <Huvik> GSoC site :D
19:01:28 <nhnt11> Yep
19:01:31 <nhnt11> it's laggin :P
19:01:32 <nhnt11> lagging*
19:01:41 <Huvik> little bit :D
19:01:50 <nhnt11> Error retrieving data :/
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19:02:09 <Mic> It's been updated a little before 12 already ;)
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19:02:35 * Mic already saw it :)
19:02:46 <Huvik> :D
19:07:03 <nhnt11> It's showing only 200 results
19:07:06 <nhnt11> once it showed 600
19:07:11 <nhnt11> then lagged.
19:07:13 <nhnt11> now it's showing 200
19:07:22 <nhnt11> Mic: can you tell me if i'm accepted
19:07:25 <nhnt11> Nihanth Subramanya
19:08:26 <Huvik> nhnt11: you are :) gratz
19:08:30 <nhnt11> Yay
19:08:31 <nhnt11> :)
19:08:32 <nhnt11> Thanks
19:10:11 <Mic> Yes, you are and I will be the mentor for your project :)
19:10:19 <nhnt11> Mic:  :D
19:10:36 <nhnt11> :)
19:10:36 <qheaden> I'm waiting to see if I will be accepted. Wish Google could send out emails faster. :)
19:10:59 <qheaden> nhnt11: BTW, congrats. :)
19:11:11 <Mic> What's the email-pattern for acceptance this year?
19:11:14 <nhnt11> qheaden: Thanks :)
19:11:15 * atuljangra someone check for me too :-/
19:11:24 <Huvik> your name?
19:11:26 <nhnt11> atuljangra: you're accepted
19:11:32 <nhnt11> Instantbird file links
19:11:41 <atuljangra> yay yay yay
19:11:47 <atuljangra> Hi5
19:12:06 <Huvik> atuljangra: can you share your application? :p i just wana see how you beat me :D
19:12:11 <qheaden> YAHOOOOO!!! I'm accepted!!!!
19:12:41 <atuljangra> qheaden: yay :-) which project.
19:12:57 <atuljangra> Huvik: will do :) right now, gotta tell my parents
19:13:05 <Huvik> gz
19:13:09 <nhnt11> atuljangra: Indians :D
19:13:09 <Mic> The Yahoo Protocol plugin, iirc
19:13:15 <nhnt11> first thing I did: wake my parents up
19:13:22 <nhnt11> qheaden: Congrats!
19:13:27 <nhnt11> atuljangra: Congrats to you too :)
19:13:49 <qheaden> Thanks
19:13:51 <Mic> Congratulations to all accepted students and thanks for joining the competition to all others!
19:13:54 <qheaden> atuljangra: Congrats.
19:14:37 <qheaden> Butterflies are gone now!
19:16:04 <nhnt11> qheaden: +1 on the butterfiles
19:16:05 <nhnt11> flies*
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19:19:33 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 
19:23:12 * atuljangra back
19:24:54 <Huvik> atuljangra: so can you paste ? :p
19:24:59 <atuljangra> qheaden: Congrats.
19:25:24 <atuljangra> Huvik: I will do so, can I do it in a day or so. :P
19:27:30 * atuljangra thanks flo-retina
19:27:40 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird -- http://www.instantbird.com)
19:27:45 * atuljangra needs some sleep now :)
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19:32:48 <instantbot> benediktp@ymail.com granted review for attachment 2461 on bug 1175.
19:32:51 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1175 nor, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Add-ons need a notification when a conversation is detached and moved to a new window
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19:39:04 * Mic wonders what EionRobb will say when he finds out that we've got a student working on file-transfers now.
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19:55:08 <nhnt11> This is going to be a fun summer )
19:55:10 <nhnt11> :) *
19:55:53 <nhnt11> Mic, flo-retina, clokep, aleth, and any other mentors: Thanks!
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20:02:34 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo-retina flo-retina 
20:02:56 <flo-retina> Congratulations to our 3 accepted Summer of Code students :)
20:04:02 <nhnt11> flo-retina: Thanks :D
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20:21:14 <qheaden> flo-retina: ping
20:21:23 <flo-retina> qheaden: hello :)
20:21:49 <qheaden> flo-retina: Hey there! Strangely, I recieved both an accepted GSoc email, as well as a rejected one. Is this a glitch?
20:21:57 <qheaden> According to Google-Melange, I'm on the accepted list.
20:22:17 <flo-retina> qheaden: Possibly because they send an email for each proposal you sent?
20:22:38 <qheaden> flo-retina: Ahh, that's it. The Skype propsal was rejected.
20:22:59 * qheaden wipes away sweat.
20:23:06 <flo-retina> Either that, or yet another bug in their email sending scripts ;).
20:23:14 <qheaden> :P
20:23:46 <qheaden> flo-retina: Would you happen to know when Patrick will be around?
20:23:48 <flo-retina> Atul also sent 2 proposals, so you may want to ask him when he's back here if he also received a rejection email in addition to the accepted one :)
20:23:52 <flo-retina> (if you are curious)
20:24:30 <flo-retina> qheaden: I can't really predict, but he'll likely be online in a few minutes or hours.
20:24:41 <qheaden> Okay. Thanks.
20:24:42 <flo-retina> You two are on the same timezone if I remember correctly
20:24:54 <qheaden> Is he located in the U.S.?
20:26:21 <nhnt11> qheaden: yes
20:27:56 <flo-retina> qheaden: he's in the Boston area
20:28:19 <Mic> http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/130527#m308
20:28:23 <qheaden> flo-retina: Oh okay. Yeah, he is in my timezone since I am I live in Virginia.
20:28:23 <Mic> ;)
20:29:17 <flo-retina> Mic: ;)
20:29:32 <Mic> They seemed to have had problem with their accepted/rejected emails in the last years already.
20:30:20 <flo-retina> you mean each year, right? :)
20:30:58 <flo-retina> during the year when I was a student, their script started sending "accepted" emails to all students, until they stop the script at some point to debug it.
20:31:26 <nhnt11> hah
20:31:29 <flo-retina> so a part of the applying students received acceptance emails, but these students were not necessarily really accepted.
20:31:42 <Mic> Was that 2006?
20:31:46 <flo-retina> yes
20:31:50 <nhnt11> Didn't they run tests? :S
20:32:17 <Mic> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code#2006
20:32:35 <Mic> It's at the end of the second paragraph.
20:34:39 <flo-retina> right
20:34:41 <nhnt11> Good night!
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21:16:53 <flo-retina> FYI my server is currently down for a reason I haven't figured out yet. My email archives of the monitoring service indicate that the same apparent behavior happened on June 30th, 2012 and resolved itself after a few hours, so it's possible it will just work again tomorrow (if not I'll have to investigate).
21:17:15 <flo-retina> The Ib-related services impacted are the blog and lxr.
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