#instantbird log on 05 02 2013

All times are UTC.

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08:43:10 <Mic> Hi
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14:48:27 <qheaden> Instantbird supports xpcshell debugging right?
14:49:30 <flo-retina> possibly.
14:49:36 <flo-retina> we use xpcshell tests
14:49:52 <flo-retina> not sure what you mean exactly with "xpcshell debugging"
14:49:54 <qheaden> Am I able to open a shell and play with some XPCOM objects?
14:49:58 <flo-retina> yes
14:50:04 <qheaden> Okay, great.
14:50:26 <flo-retina> I'm not sure everything will work from an xpcshell
14:51:57 <qheaden> Probably won't, but I just wanted to know if I created a XPCOM object, if I can interact with it.
14:52:12 <qheaden> Just needed to know for my proposal. :)
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14:59:20 <qheaden> flo-retina: Do you know if Patrick will be around anytime soon?
15:00:37 <flo-retina> heh
15:00:46 <flo-retina> He's in vacation in Europe this week.
15:01:23 <flo-retina> we were supposed to met here (Mozilla office in Paris) an hour ago
15:01:51 <flo-retina> so I expect him to be around soon, but not on IRC ;)
15:01:56 <qheaden> Oh okay. :)
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15:02:12 <qheaden> He probably won't have time to look at the final draft of my proposal. So I'll just go ahead and post it to Google-Melange.
15:03:17 <flo-retina> if the process is like last year, mentors commenting on proposals can check a box saying "let the student edit his proposal", so if he really wants you to clarify something later, that should still be possible
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15:06:38 <qheaden> Oh okay.
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15:11:26 <flo-retina> (and if for some reason that's not possible; emailing is always possible :))
15:11:29 <flo-retina> so don't worry about it :)
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16:29:35 <flo-retina> it was very nice to finally meet clokep :).
16:43:35 <Huvik> flo how looks gsoc FileLinks is there many applications?
16:44:12 <flo-retina> I don't know.
16:45:34 <flo-retina> I think there were at least 1 or 2 students asking questions about it in here, but I don't know if they have actually applied or not
16:47:06 <Huvik> ty for answer :p
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17:24:56 <Huvik> flo-retina: pls pm when you came i wana talk about FileLinks in Instant Messages :)
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18:23:23 <Nonax> good day. 
18:23:41 <aleth> Hi Nonax
18:24:30 <Nonax> I heard this is the correct place to ask questions regarding Instantbird's development?
18:24:46 <aleth> Yes :)
18:26:03 <Nonax> Oh, wonderful!^^
18:26:14 <nhnt11> Hi Nonax :)
18:26:21 <Nonax> hi!
18:26:21 <aleth> Nonax: Ask away.
18:27:37 <Nonax> I was wondering if there are any plans to add a skype plugin to instantbird. I think I have read something about this some time ago but my memory is not really reliable on stuff like that...
18:27:50 <nhnt11> Nonax: There are plans.
18:28:04 <aleth> Nonax: We are hoping to support Skype via an add-on. It can't be included by default due to licensing concerns.
18:28:10 <nhnt11> It was going to be a part of this year's Google Summer of Code, but unfortunately there are some licensing issues
18:28:30 <aleth> But nobody is actively working on it yet, so it's not imminent...
18:29:43 <Nonax> ah, I see. Understandable, seeing how tricky licensing can be. 
18:30:14 <nhnt11> aleth: Speaking of plugins, I was wondering. Can awesometab start off as a plugin?
18:31:33 <Nonax> awesometab?
18:32:16 <Huvik> GSoC project
18:32:29 <aleth> nhnt11: Possibly. It really depends on how you plan to implement it.
18:33:11 <aleth> In principle add-ons can do almost anything, but if you have to change lots of existing code to integrate it, then it's not really practical.
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18:35:01 <aleth> The advantage of add-ons for development is that other people can quite easily test your WIPs without having to patch IB.
18:35:24 <nhnt11> 00:02:57 - nhnt11: Cool. Just wanted to know if it was okay.
18:35:33 <nhnt11> Oops copied the whole thing.
18:36:58 <aleth> As a rule of thumb, the more things you need to hook into, the more complicated the add-on will be, comparatively.
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18:37:40 <nhnt11> btw, Nonax, https://wiki.mozilla.org/Community:SummerOfCode13#Instantbird
18:37:57 <nhnt11> I got disconnected before that got sent ;)
18:38:38 <Nonax> oh, thanks a lot! 
18:46:36 <Nonax> another thing I was wondering... You know how many IM clients have a small toolbar or something similar to change stuff like the font used or buttons for switching to bold etc above the input field? Do you think that would make a useful addon for IB?
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18:47:11 <aleth> Yes, it would be useful to have text formatting support. I think we even have a bug open for it...
18:47:58 * nhnt11 will have a lot of fun with Ib after his exams regardless of whether his GSoC application is accepted.
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18:48:54 <Nonax> hm, I see. Thanks for the info!^^
18:48:57 <aleth> bug 634
18:49:01 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=634 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Richtext formatting for outgoing messages
18:49:19 <aleth> You can cc yourself if you like ;)
18:49:24 <aleth> nhnt11: Great :)
18:51:54 <Nonax> well then, I gotta go. Thanks for all the info, you're awesome! 
18:52:15 <nhnt11> aleth: Are you free to read my (final) proposal if I email it in the coming hours?
18:52:19 <nhnt11> Nonax: Bye!
18:52:43 <aleth> nhnt11: More likely tomorrow, but definitely email it!
18:52:57 <nhnt11> Alright. I have less than 24 hours to submit it, I think.
18:53:02 <Nonax> bye guys!
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18:54:29 <aleth> nhnt11: OK. Definitely submit it by the deadline, we can always ask you for clarifications later as well.
18:55:13 <Huvik> aleth is flo coming today? :D
18:55:26 <nhnt11> Okay. I think I can finish it up in 20 minutes maybe actually.
18:55:29 <aleth> Huvik: I don't know.
18:55:39 <nhnt11> Just need to add that bit about querying the server
18:55:55 <aleth> Afaik he was travelling to Paris today
18:56:56 <Huvik> ah hmm i had some question about filelink so i can post my appli :) so i need to wait 
18:57:04 <aleth> Huvik: what was your question?
18:57:16 <Huvik> about implemation
18:58:36 * nhnt11 seems to have mostly fixed his reconnection problem
18:58:40 <aleth> what about implementation?
18:58:44 <aleth> nhnt11++
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18:59:07 <nhnt11> aleth: nhnt11
18:59:11 <nhnt11> nhnt11++? *
18:59:21 <aleth> I mean, that sounds good ;)
18:59:41 <nhnt11> I figured that out, but I've never seen that before ;)
18:59:45 <Huvik> how i should work some behind stuff and etc can i talk about it with you?
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18:59:58 <aleth> Huvik: Sure
19:00:17 <Huvik> private or here?
19:00:23 <aleth> Here is fine.
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19:01:30 <Huvik> how should UI works like in other cliennts some litle buton in chat window or some top menu?
19:02:15 <aleth> Huvik: You should propose a good UI, that's part of the project really. We don't have any fixed idea about how to do it.
19:02:37 <aleth> Adding a menu to the conversation window is not a good idea though.
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19:03:16 <nhnt11> aleth, Huvik: Drag and drop comes to mind.
19:03:17 <Huvik> yea i just wonder if i have to send some my idea picture or only words
19:03:46 <Huvik> yea it was too my idea i just want to talk about all my ideas before i post it :)
19:04:00 <aleth> nhnt11, Huvik: Drag and drop is good, a context menu entry would also be good, a command maybe... we can provide multiple ways to do it.
19:04:44 <nhnt11> Huvik: I know what you mean ;)
19:05:20 <nhnt11> aleth: Slots are decided afterwards right? So Ib may get multiple or even no GSoC students?
19:05:52 <aleth> Huvik: A picture would be great if it helps, but words may be enough, as long as you are clear
19:06:38 <aleth> nhnt11: I'm not sure about the details of the process, but I think all the mozilla applications are looked at together.
19:06:51 <Huvik> and then about file servers and backbone is better to make my own or use filelink rather?
19:06:52 <aleth> So I think you are right.
19:07:15 <aleth> Huvik: when you say "backbone" you mean the backend?
19:07:17 <nhnt11> Huvik: I think the project intends Filelink to be used as a fallback
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19:07:24 <aleth> Filelink is definitely required as a fallback.
19:07:25 <Huvik> yea
19:07:33 <nhnt11> In case the protocol-specific method doesn't work or doesn't exist
19:07:48 <aleth> Huvik: But the code should be structured so protocol-specific methods can also be added.
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19:08:46 <aleth> Something to consider is how the UI handles this
19:09:27 <nhnt11> That's interesting. Some users may want to use Filelink by default for all protocols
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19:10:44 <aleth> nhnt11: Looks like your disconnection problem is back :P
19:10:56 <nhnt11> Yeah :(
19:11:13 <nhnt11> Seems to be lasting longer between disconnects though.
19:11:34 <aleth> Huvik, nhnt11: This was the application of our GSoc student last year http://www.tc.umn.edu/~nayes006/gsoc/instantbird.php
19:11:34 <Huvik> hmm
19:11:52 <nhnt11> I setup a caching proxy on my laptop for myself and a few friends. I thought it would help.
19:12:05 <Huvik> wow nice app
19:12:09 <nhnt11> aleth: Thanks. I should have asked for that earlier.
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19:14:25 <Huvik> and he was accepted right? becose of account wizard right?:D
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19:14:46 <aleth> Huvik: Yes, that was the application that succeeded ;)
19:14:58 <nhnt11> Hmm. I wanted to include a screenshot or simple concept-sketch of the awesometab UI but I was focusing more on the other aspects of it.
19:15:37 <aleth> nhnt11: It's up to you what you focus on in your application, as long as you cover what's in the project description
19:16:06 <nhnt11> aleth: A screenshot/sketch would have made it look more impressive, and first impressions count ;)
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19:19:17 <qheaden> How many GSoC slots get Instantbird receive last year? Only one?
19:19:30 <aleth> qheaden: Yes
19:19:45 <qheaden> Oh wow. :P
19:20:05 <aleth> But as I mentioned above, the slots from Google are for mozilla as a whole.
19:20:18 <qheaden> Oh okay.
19:20:52 <aleth> I assume they will pick the best applications ;) 
19:21:27 <nhnt11> aleth: Do you think it's important to talk about how I'm adapting to XUL, etc?
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19:22:03 <nhnt11> I suppose the fact that I've submitted a couple of patches implies that...
19:22:28 * nhnt11 is torn between GSoC and his maths final tomorrow
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19:24:30 <aleth> nhnt11: You could mention it. Ideally research like that will be apparent from what you suggest to do in the project ;)
19:25:03 <nhnt11> aleth: You've seen my proposal right? Do you think it's apparent to a third party?
19:25:11 <nhnt11> If you don't mind me asking such a question ;)
19:26:15 <aleth> nhnt11: I don't think I've seen the most recent one, unless you sent it to team@ib
19:26:25 <nhnt11> I've sent only one so far ;)
19:27:17 <aleth> Then I haven't seen it.
19:28:33 <nhnt11> I found quite a few things to talk about in the proposal without delving into UI implementation details, so I didn't bother with it. Now I think I should include something..
19:29:17 <aleth> If you have an exam tomorrow, probably screenshots would eat too much time ;)
19:29:36 <Huvik> proposal should be send from gsoc site or?
19:29:43 <nhnt11> Huvik: Yes.
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19:39:45 <nhnt11> aleth: I've decided to split my schedule of deliverables into stuff I've already done to prepare, things I intend to work on before the coding period, and then the coding period itself
19:40:33 <aleth> Sounds good
19:48:08 <nhnt11> I think I'll omit the screenshot. I don't think the UI is obvious enough at this stage. It will have to accommodate for different fields available for different protocols, etc.
19:50:06 <aleth> As long as you allocate time for it ;)
19:50:11 <nhnt11> I have.
19:51:09 <Huvik> malloc(sizeof(*time))
19:51:22 <aleth> You could mention some of those considerations of course (what you think a good UI should do)
19:52:27 <aleth> If you have something in mind, that is.
19:52:36 <nhnt11> I do, and I have talked about it a bit.
19:53:03 <aleth> The obvious comparison (from the name) is to the awesomebar in FF I guess...
19:56:18 <aleth> But that may not be the ideal way to go, idk.
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19:58:32 <nhnt11> aleth: I've been imagining a textfield for autocompletion(like awesomebar), but when a contact/account/chatroom is autocompleted, additional UI elements may have to be shown (for example channel password for IRC)
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20:12:07 <Mic> My conversation window is rather large. Is there going to be something else than only a text field on the tab?
20:12:29 <Mic> I understand if you wouldn't like to discuss things in public.
20:12:53 <Mic> No idea who else is applying for the same project here...
20:13:45 <nhnt11> Mic: No, it will not be just a textfield.
20:13:57 <nhnt11> Oh, and I don't know either, I don't think anyone is...
20:17:37 <nhnt11> The extra thought I've been putting in to the UI over the last couple hours may require me to rethink my ETA for it in the timelien
20:17:39 <nhnt11> timeline*
20:20:55 <Mic> A text field is not very accessible to mouse users, have you maybe thought of other ways to open a conversation? One that would suit people who like using the mouse (or maybe touch devices already)?
20:22:02 <nhnt11> Yes, I have. I just finished typing a few points on the UI. Do you receive emails addressed to team@ib?
20:22:10 <Mic> Yep
20:22:28 <nhnt11> Ah yes I remember sorry
20:22:39 <nhnt11> I'll be sending my updated proposal soon
20:26:51 <flo-retina> nhnt11: "Oh, and I don't know either, I don't think anyone is..." My 2 cents about this: don't worry about it! :) If there are multiple students applying for the same thing, having talked about specific ideas for the project in public first is an advantage, as we could suspect the other student(s) has/have copied instead of thinking themselves.
20:27:24 <nhnt11> flo-retina: :)
20:27:53 * nhnt11 has put in a lot of thought into this
20:28:34 <flo-retina> + showing that one is willing to work in the open is also nice ;)
20:29:18 <Mic> nhnt11: e.g. have a look how Firefox made going to frequently visited pages more easier for mouse users.
20:29:46 <flo-retina> and how it uses the previously empty space in new tabs :)
20:30:29 <nhnt11> Mic, flo-retina: Please don't give me all sorts of new ideas when the deadline is less than 24 hours away. I have an exam tomorrow ;)
20:31:06 <nhnt11> Anyway, I've included a bit on how I'm going to look into Firefox's awesomebar in the coming weeks before GSoC
20:31:27 <flo-retina> awesome*tab* ;)
20:31:28 <Mic> Sorry, just trying to help to make the tab awesome ;)
20:32:03 <nhnt11> flo-retina: the autocompletion stuff in awesomebar may help.
20:32:25 <flo-retina> for code inspiration yes. For UI, I'm not so sure.
20:32:36 <nhnt11> Definitely not for the UI.
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20:33:06 <flo-retina> btw, it is summer of *code*. The student doesn't have to demonstrate great UX skills (it's a plus though :)). We can help to design the UI.
20:33:27 <flo-retina> nhnt11: maybe you should just apply now, then focus on your exam, and edit your proposal after the exam if you still have time then?
20:33:46 <nhnt11> Can I edit my proposal post-deadline?
20:34:28 <flo-retina> only if the mentor of the project allows it.
20:34:39 <flo-retina> but you can definitely edit as many times as you want before the deadline.
20:34:49 <nhnt11> flo-retina: You seem like a considerate mentor... ;)
20:34:59 <flo-retina> so you may want to apply ASAP, so that you are sure to not miss the deadline if for some reason your internet connection doesn't work tomorrow.
20:35:19 <nhnt11> Will do. I have multiple sources of internet though, so that shouldn't be a problem.
20:35:58 <flo-retina> I'm sure we will get plenty of applications just before the deadline anyway :)
20:36:33 <flo-retina> I don't remember how long before the deadline I applied in 2006. Probably only a few hours :-].
20:37:38 <Huvik> do you have your application somewhere ? :p
20:37:47 <flo-retina> Huvik: I'm here if you still need me (seems others have answered some of your questions already :))
20:37:48 <Mic> What was your project, flo-retina?
20:37:51 <Mic> The page info dialog?
20:37:55 <flo-retina> Mic: yes
20:38:33 <flo-retina> Huvik: I have my application from 2007; which was rejected. In 2007 I suggested creating a multi-protocol IM client with a XUL UI.
20:38:53 <nhnt11> flo-retina: :D
20:39:17 <nhnt11> flo-retina: I'd like to see that anyway, if you don't mind :P
20:39:31 <flo-retina> so yeah, if an application isn't accepted; it doesn't mean you shouldn't work on it if you really like the project :).
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20:39:49 <flo-retina> I think I posted it on my blog
20:40:06 <Huvik> can you show it? :p i just wonder how it was?
20:40:55 <flo-retina> hmm, that's from 2006 http://www.queze.net/c152-google-summer-of-code.html
20:41:00 <flo-retina> I guess I was very proud at the time :)
20:41:11 <nhnt11> I've only seen a couple of proposals that were accepted for GCC and nmap, and they were a bit frightening
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20:42:23 <flo-retina> apparently I only posted the summary, not the full application
20:42:23 <flo-retina> http://www.queze.net/c234-summer-of-code-c-est-fini-et-ca-recommence-ou-pas-s.html
20:42:36 <nhnt11> flo-retina: french -_-
20:42:43 <Huvik> translate :D
20:42:46 <nhnt11> Yeah.
20:43:14 <flo-retina> nhnt11: the quoted summary isn't in French :-P
20:43:21 <Huvik> :D
20:43:39 <nhnt11> flo-retina: Are you busy? Can you take a look at my current proposal?
20:43:47 <flo-retina> let's see if 6 years later the initial goals have been reached :)
20:43:49 * flo-retina reads again
20:44:27 <flo-retina> apparently they were reached with Instantbird 0.2
20:44:51 <Huvik> i have some question about filelink it should use only file link or i can make new addon with my ftp client and stuff like this? 
20:45:10 <Mic> Less rounded borders for Show Nick look good in my opinion: http://i.imgur.com/lzh56py.png
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20:46:52 <nhnt11> flo-retina: When I search for bugs assigned to me in Bugzilla, it returns only those which are REOPENED, NEW, ASSIGNED, or UNCONFIRMED
20:46:52 <nhnt11> I tried status:all but that didn't work
20:47:14 <Mic> Try ALL at the beginning
20:47:19 <flo-retina> nhnt11: search "ALL @first part of your email address"
20:47:57 <flo-retina> Huvik: can you elaborate on what "new addon with my ftp client and stuff like this" means?
20:48:06 <nhnt11> yay
20:48:10 <nhnt11> What is the "@" for?
20:48:17 <flo-retina> nhnt11: assigned
20:48:31 <flo-retina> or rather, assignee
20:48:32 <nhnt11> Thought so, thanks a lot.
20:49:06 <Mic> :)
20:49:09 <Mic> Good to know :)
20:49:18 <Mic> I always used "assignee:" for that
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20:52:05 <clokep_wp8> Hello.
20:52:43 <flo-retina> clokep_wp8: hey there :)
20:53:11 <flo-retina> clokep connected from a free.fr IP :)
20:53:12 <Huvik> if is better to use TB Filelink or make my own Addon i have some my own ideas like use own servers and attach files here with somekind of my own "file manage"  
20:53:26 <clokep_wp8> Good meeting you today! Stinks jb was busy. :-(
20:53:43 <flo-retina> Huvik: what's the benefit for the users?
20:53:44 <clokep_wp8> Yes, crappy hotel internet!
20:54:01 <nhnt11> clokep_wp8: Hey, it still probably beats the internet they give us on campus here
20:54:13 <clokep_wp8> The UI doesn't need to matc TB's.
20:54:24 <flo-retina> a whole hotel connected from a single DSL access? :-/
20:54:27 <flo-retina> I thought you were couchsurfing or something to get such an IP :-/
20:54:29 <clokep_wp8> I'd expect it not to, in fact.
20:55:05 <clokep_wp8> flo-retina: We forgot to take a picture. :-\
20:55:32 <flo-retina> clokep_wp8: yes, I thought that when I was in the train :-/
20:55:33 <Huvik> better manipulation with files? maybe more "security" better future file control?
20:55:35 <clokep_wp8> A small hotel. :-)
20:56:18 <flo-retina> :)
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20:57:25 <Huvik> my dad have some small company and he provides some kind of email servers and stuff like this and he told me some tips and stuff like this but i dont think filelink can provide all stuff 
20:58:05 <flo-retina> are you thinking about a Thunderbird or an Instantbird project?
20:58:10 <Huvik> IB
20:58:19 <Huvik> FileLinks in Instant Messages
20:58:27 <clokep_wp8> What about it can't? Foeswit just need an (s)ftp addon to it?
20:58:49 <flo-retina> seems wp8's auto-correct is a good as the iPhone one :)
20:58:54 <Huvik> :D
20:59:19 <clokep_wp8> Autocorrect is disabled in this app. :-S
20:59:33 * flo-retina googles Foeswit then :-[
20:59:46 <clokep_wp8> It gives the suggestions, but doesn't do it unless i click.
20:59:46 <Mic> "Foeswit" sounds dutch to me ;)
20:59:59 <clokep_wp8> "Does it" 
21:00:28 <flo-retina> ah, I thought you typed "Filelink" and it was "corrected" :-D
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21:02:27 <clokep_wp8> Nope. :-) 
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21:02:55 <Huvik> so what is it? :D
21:03:36 <Huvik> i just only get: Did you mean: Fitwit 
21:04:49 <clokep_wp8> Huvik: You would need to convince us why FileLink is not adequate.
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21:05:00 <clokep_wp8> Can you be more specific?
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21:06:18 * clokep_wp8 wishes he could run this app in the background....
21:06:23 <Huvik> only 3 storage services?
21:07:31 <clokep_wp8> If you're interested in adding storage services you should talk to mconley about a FileLink GSoC project, not us about integrating it into IM.
21:08:28 <Huvik> i tought GSoC project was to made it whole
21:08:49 <clokep_wp8> What?
21:09:36 <clokep_wp8> I'll be back soon. (flo-retina probably can continue this though.)
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21:10:45 <Huvik> Description: The Thunderbird Filelink feature allows users to upload attachments to an online storage service, replacing the email attachment with a link. This existing code could be used to implement file transfer. While some protocols support file transfer directly, this approach would provide a fallback that should always work. Designing and implementing a good UI frontend would also be required.  > from this i tought i have to made
21:10:45 <Huvik> whole from file manage to upload to server to link generation  
21:10:59 <flo-retina> nhnt11: I can look now if you want
21:11:29 <Huvik> then implement to instantbird with ui
21:12:00 <flo-retina> Huvik: have you tried Thunderbird's FileLink feature?
21:12:08 <Huvik> yea
21:13:16 <nhnt11> flo-retina: great. I'll email it in a sec
21:13:46 <nhnt11> I just had a couple friends over, and also need to reconfigure my squid proxy to accept SMTP/IMAP connections for Mail.
21:13:47 <Huvik> but i tough when i have some files on my own servers i can connect to it and generate link from my own server etc
21:17:25 <flo-retina> Do you think our users have your own server?
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21:18:01 <nhnt11> I think Huvik is trying to say he wants to make the server configurable, or something.
21:18:10 <Mook_as> pretty sure you can add filelink account types on your own (category id cloud-files), so it probably shouldn't be part of your GSoC project unless you feel like you have extra time to kill
21:18:22 <nhnt11> (I could be misunderstanding completely)
21:18:31 <clokep_wp8> That's ehat I'm saying Mook.
21:19:03 <Mook_as> yeah, but I'm not convinced adding one provider is enough meat for a GSoC ;)
21:19:51 <clokep_wp8> We're not the ones to judge that. :-)
21:20:38 <clokep_wp8> Huvik: Does that distinction make sense to you?
21:20:40 <Huvik> nhnt11 is right but i tought made my own "FileLink" but i just interpreted my way so its goal is implement TB FileLink in IB with 
21:20:45 <flo-retina> Mook_as: wasn't there a GSoC project to add an sftp provider?
21:21:28 <clokep_wp8> Huvik: The goal is to use TB's FileLink backend code in Instantbird.
21:21:42 <Huvik> yea its clear for me now :)
21:21:58 <clokep_wp8> flo-retina: I think security weenies keep shooting down an sftp provider.
21:22:03 <Huvik> but it looks like "Easy" to me for 3 months work
21:22:40 <Mook_as> flo-retina: no idea, I didn't read the list. I suppose trying to implement SSH in JS can be enough work... but I suspect there are extensions out there that already do this; FireFTP, perhaps.
21:22:56 <clokep_wp8> Huvik: I believe it also says things about adding file transfer?
21:23:14 <flo-retina> clokep_wp8: I think the issues were more about licensing concerns (sounds familiar, doesn't it? ;)) than security concerns.
21:23:31 <clokep_wp8> Also, the UI will probably take a bit of tweaking. We don't want TB's UI for this.
21:23:36 <nhnt11> Mook_as, flo-retina, clokep_wp8: Is it really a good idea to reimpliment ssh in JS?
21:23:44 <flo-retina> nhnt11: no
21:23:52 <Mook_as> nhnt11: likely not. that doesn't mean nobody will do it anyway :p
21:24:07 <nhnt11> I would say require ssh to be pre-installed and then piggyback
21:24:12 <flo-retina> it could be compiled to JS though :)
21:24:25 <Mook_as> haha, yes, that's probably the way to go.
21:24:37 <Mook_as> pyxpcom + paramiko is probably too much work for people-who-are-not-komodo
21:24:43 <flo-retina> nhnt11: makes sense on Unix, on Windows... not so much
21:24:50 <nhnt11> Windows... meh -_-
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21:25:34 <nhnt11> (I'm back on OS X by the way :) )
21:25:35 <flo-retina> Mook_as: what could go wrong? ;)
21:26:04 <Mook_as> flo-retina: more like, what can't go wrong? :p
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21:26:18 <Huvik> so you can chose if you wana use FT (if protocol have it) or Filelink option and make UI with configuration etc? i am clear now? 
21:26:33 <flo-retina> Mook_as: well, your file is safe; if the transfer never starts :-P
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21:28:27 <Mic> Wasn't FileLink intended as fallback if regular transfers fail?
21:28:55 <flo-retina> Mic: yes
21:30:02 <Huvik> ah finally i got it :) i interpreted task in my way :)
21:30:15 <nhnt11> flo-retina, Mic: I just sent that e-mail
21:32:09 <atuljangra> So fileLink project is all about "porting" TB
21:32:21 <atuljangra> So fileLink project is all about "porting" TB's filelink feature to IB?
21:33:09 <nhnt11> atuljangra: I think it's more than that. Filelink is merely a fallback, so the protocol specific file transferring still has to be done
21:33:27 <flo-retina> atuljangra: Not. It's about getting file transfer to work in Instantbird.
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21:34:05 <flo-retina> atuljangra: No. It's about getting file transfer to work in Instantbird.
21:34:14 <Huvik> i tought it should only send files with links
21:34:59 <atuljangra> flo-retina: oh okay. The way it is working in TB?
21:37:04 * Mook_as would like things to work the way it used to work in ICQ
21:37:29 <Mook_as> ... well, not *perfectly* like ICQ, since that sucked for NAT :p
21:37:38 <atuljangra> flo-retina: also, we'll be using same providers as TB, or do we want to add more providers also? 
21:37:46 * atuljangra heh :P
21:38:49 <atuljangra> Mook_as: flo-retina is their a bug number for this feature?
21:39:08 <nhnt11> Oh no, my formatting isn't agreeing well with melange's editor :(
21:39:15 <nhnt11> I thought rich text would be okay...
21:39:27 * atuljangra there there
21:39:39 <flo-retina> nhnt11: "a UI similar to the current join chat dialog [...] will be displayed when the textfield is blank." do you really think this is a desirable behavior?
21:40:03 <nhnt11> Similar in functionality*
21:40:14 <nhnt11> Maybe I should rephrase that
21:40:29 <flo-retina> nhnt11: it's not really about rephrasing.
21:40:32 <Mook_as> ...oh, the history field, not the text entry field.
21:40:53 <flo-retina> nhnt11: I think a form full of boring and non-sensical fields is the last thing you would want to show when the textbox is empty
21:41:20 <nhnt11> I was thinking a two-columned list
21:41:39 <nhnt11> one column containing accounts, and the other column populating with contacts/channels based on the selected account
21:41:46 <flo-retina> atuljangra: so I think we would want file transfer to work like in other clients. ie send the file through the IM protocol. And once that fails (which is extremely common these days), offer to fallback to file links
21:41:47 <nhnt11> Or something like that.
21:42:00 <flo-retina> atuljangra: the reason why we never exposed IM file transfer in our UI is that it's awfully unreliable.
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21:42:14 <flo-retina> atuljangra: FileLink is just a trick to ensure that we can indeed send a file (almost) 100% of the time
21:42:42 <Mook_as> after that you can implement file transfer over webrtc ;)
21:42:48 <flo-retina> nhnt11: I suspect in most cases selecting an account isn't an interesting choice
21:42:58 <flo-retina> Mook_as: that's part of that SoC project :-P
21:43:04 <flo-retina> WebRTC datachannels are cool :)
21:43:20 <nhnt11> flo-retina: It's not interesting, but won't it be necessary?
21:43:24 <Mook_as> obviously I haven't read *any* SoCs :p
21:43:38 <flo-retina> nhnt11: if it's not interesting, you shouldn't show it unless the user asks for it
21:43:56 <flo-retina> Mook_as: are you not a student interested in applying? :-P
21:44:22 <nhnt11> How does that make sense? There's no way to manually select a contact without specifying which account to choose from.
21:44:37 <Mook_as> flo-retina: needs a time machine
21:44:43 <nhnt11> It could display some sort of contact list, but then how would IRC work
21:44:47 <atuljangra> flo-retina: oh okay, seems great. Also, if some IM protocol doesn't offer filetransfer then we'll just switch to FileLink?
21:44:55 <atuljangra> Mook_as: heh :P <timemachine>
21:45:33 <Huvik> nhnt11: made temp file or array with all contacts?
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21:45:58 <nhnt11> Huvik: We're talking about UI, the backend can be taken care of.
21:46:15 <Huvik> sorry :)
21:46:23 <Mic> nhnt11: what I wanted to get at earlier is that there could e.g. be a few buttons with the most frequently contacted contacts somewhere, like Firefox shows it on its "New Tab" page.
21:46:37 <nhnt11> I'm not sure I like that.
21:47:00 <nhnt11> I should be able to open ANY contact from the new tab page
21:47:34 <Mic> Sure but why would I want to start typing the name of the three or four contacts that I talk to most often if they could be shown right away?
21:47:36 <flo-retina> nhnt11: it would remember the conversations you have had previously
21:47:53 <nhnt11> flo-retina: Yes.
21:48:03 <flo-retina> and show by default the conversations you have all the time
21:48:10 <flo-retina> most people talk to at most 6 other people.
21:48:27 <flo-retina> which makes the contact list window a stupid UI design.
21:48:39 <flo-retina> err, I meant "talk *frequently*"
21:49:27 <nhnt11> flo-retina: There are more concerns. I usually wouldn't even want to see contacts who aren't currently online.
21:49:59 <nhnt11> Many times, I check who's online and start chatting based on that.
21:50:10 <flo-retina> nhnt11: that's a good point too
21:50:31 <flo-retina> I would have mentioned that presence information should be taken into account. But I refrained from doing so until I have read the whole proposal :)
21:50:54 <Mic> I'd object. I frequently want to leave messages for people who are offline.
21:50:56 <nhnt11> I don't think i've mentioned it anywhere, silly of me.
21:51:04 <flo-retina> things like IRC passwords are going to be really tricky/painful
21:51:17 <Mic> But they'd be shown in my "favourite contacts" section anyways, so that'd be fine.
21:51:26 <nhnt11> Mic: In that case, you know who you want to talk to
21:51:29 <nhnt11> So just type in their name.
21:51:32 <Mic> Shouldn't IRC passwords ideally be stored in the password manager?
21:51:36 <flo-retina> Mic: I didn't say offline contacts should be excluded. I said "taken into account". That could go into the sorting algorithm
21:51:56 <flo-retina> Mic: yes
21:52:03 <flo-retina> but that's not really the problem here
21:52:16 <flo-retina> I guess the problem is: how do you prompt for an IRC channel password when needed
21:52:47 <nhnt11> flo-retina: I envision awesometab as a balance between autocompletion and a refined take on the classic buddy list
21:53:07 <Mic> d'oh.
21:53:15 * Mic just typed "clear" in a channel.
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21:53:38 <flo-retina> Mic: maybe you want to implement an add-on for the /clear command? :)
21:53:54 <flo-retina> nhnt11: yeah.
21:54:23 <flo-retina> nhnt11: so a very first goal could be to make a "new tab" display the content of the contact list, sorted by availability, and filtered by what the user types in a textbox
21:54:38 <flo-retina> adding multi-user-chats (IRC channels, ...) will require a lot more work
21:54:48 <Mic> Multi-column, please ;)
21:55:08 <flo-retina> Mic: ?
21:55:48 <flo-retina> nhnt11: Mic just volunteered to write an add-on to display the "new tab" in a multi-column mode; so that you don't have to care about it :-P.
21:56:05 <atuljangra> heh :P
21:56:22 <nhnt11> :S
21:56:38 <Huvik> when you are talking about awsome tab it should use FT too right?
21:56:41 * flo-retina goes back to reading the proposal
21:57:03 <nhnt11> Huvik: awesometab is about opening a conversation. FT will happen after a conversation is initiated.
21:57:44 <flo-retina> nhnt11: something that the awesometab should address is creating a private conversation with someone not on your contact list
21:58:06 <flo-retina> nhnt11: it's currently impossible, and it sucks for IRC (you can workaround it only if you know the /msg command)
21:58:41 <flo-retina> nhnt11: a possible way to handle that case in the UI would be to offer to select the account to start the conversation if the text the user has typed doesn't match any contact.
21:58:42 <nhnt11> Yes. That will be done by querying the server for a user list
21:59:01 <nhnt11> I recall IRC has a USERS command
21:59:05 <flo-retina> ah, you would whois automatically to see if what the user has typed is a valid user?
21:59:19 <flo-retina> interesting
21:59:43 <nhnt11> Yes, it does. Just verified.
21:59:46 <nhnt11> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Internet_Relay_Chat_commands#USERS
22:01:47 <flo-retina> isn't 3. a. redundant with things you already mentioned in 2. ?
22:03:02 <nhnt11> Yeah, I'll fix that.
22:04:44 <flo-retina> so there are things I dislike in the schedule
22:04:52 <flo-retina> putting unit tests at the end means there won't be unit tests at all.
22:05:11 <nhnt11> You think I'll be delayed?
22:05:12 <flo-retina> there will always be delays and/or something to polish that will look more exciting than writing tests
22:05:43 <flo-retina> for things where writing unit tests is easy, and can save you time during the implementation, you should really write the tests at the same time as the code
22:05:54 <nhnt11> Agreed.
22:05:54 <flo-retina> I'm thinking especially about the ranking/sorting algorithm.
22:05:59 <flo-retina> that's something you can easily test
22:06:02 <nhnt11> Yes, I understand.
22:06:40 <flo-retina> also, estimating 1 week for getting the code reviewed is wrong by an order of magnitude. You can ask wnayes what he thinks about it :(.
22:07:31 <flo-retina> nhnt11: so you should really try to have patches that are as small as possible, and get them reviewed as soon as possible
22:08:03 <nhnt11> flo-retina: I didn't mean "review" in that sense
22:08:04 <flo-retina> when I said "a very first goal could be to make a "new tab" display the content of the contact list, sorted by availability, and filtered by what the user types in a textbox" ; I meant, that could be the first thing that gets checked in.
22:08:13 <nhnt11> I meant more like "re-review"
22:08:52 <flo-retina> nhnt11: well, you wrote "ensure compatibility in functions, code formatting [...] so that the project can be merged into the Instantbird tree".
22:08:56 <nhnt11> flo-retina: I'm going to submit my current proposal to be safe, and try and address all these points tomorrow after my exam.
22:09:05 <nhnt11> Oh :(
22:09:33 <flo-retina> there's no way such large code changes could be reviewed and merged in a week.
22:09:46 <nhnt11> I know I know, I wonder why I wrote it like that.
22:10:10 <nhnt11> It should be merged one milestone at a time
22:10:15 <flo-retina> possibly because that makes sense for a project where one has a "pencil down" date, and has to drop some code at the end?
22:10:28 <flo-retina> yes, it should :)
22:10:30 <nhnt11> I suppose :S
22:10:40 <flo-retina> you should start working on the next milestone while the previous one is reviewed
22:11:23 <nhnt11> Yeah, I've written the proposal with a do-it-all-and-then-submit approach.
22:11:52 <atuljangra> flo-retina: in filelink, we should start with one upload server and complete the basics, and then add support for other server, right?
22:12:25 <flo-retina> atuljangra: I'm not really sure of what that means
22:12:39 <flo-retina> I kinda assumed that all providers were handled with the same API, and that if we got one working, we would get the others "for free"
22:13:44 <Mic> nhnt11: I would advise against that, if there's problems or things that we think need to be done differently, we/you would notice that as soon as possible.
22:13:58 <atuljangra> flo-retina: that's what I was saying, so say we'll first build everything, and test it with dropbox, and then do the UI stuff, then support for webrtc and then in the end tests the implemented code with other providers?
22:13:59 <Mic> *should notice
22:14:23 <nhnt11> Mic: yeah, I didn't really intend to code it that way ;)
22:14:40 <-- qheaden has quit (Connection reset by peer)
22:14:50 <Mic> USERS is disabled on the Mozilla servers :(
22:15:11 <flo-retina> Mic: it looked too good to be true ;)
22:15:22 <Mic> "Warning: Unhandled IRC message: :gravel.mozilla.org 446 Mic :USERS has been disabled" :(
22:15:40 <nhnt11> Aww.
22:15:44 <flo-retina> atuljangra: hmm... yes? I'm not completely sure of what you are asking.
22:16:03 <nhnt11> Well a whois would work then.
22:16:03 <flo-retina> atuljangra: if it's "can I ignore you send it as long as I check that dropbox keeps working?" I think "yes".
22:16:18 <atuljangra> I was just deciding the flow of project.
22:16:31 <atuljangra> yes, that's exactly what I was saying.
22:17:22 <flo-retina> :)
22:17:27 <atuljangra> flo-retina: should we do initial work with Dropbox or yousendit? Do you have some preference?
22:18:46 <flo-retina> atuljangra: well, I have a dropbox account
22:18:52 <flo-retina> atuljangra: I don't think it really matters
22:18:57 <atuljangra> awesome, 
22:18:57 <atuljangra> yes, 
22:19:02 <flo-retina> atuljangra: so I could answer Ubuntu One just to annoy you :-P
22:19:05 <atuljangra> just as matter of choice.
22:19:08 <atuljangra> heh :P
22:19:25 <nhnt11> :D
22:20:11 <nhnt11> atuljangra: Are you finished with exams?
22:20:51 <atuljangra> no :( I've two exams tomorrow, :(
22:21:03 <atuljangra> but Gsoc deadline, so had to do this.
22:21:19 <nhnt11> I'm multitasking... got the textbook open in another window ;)
22:21:27 <atuljangra> heh :P
22:21:55 <Huvik> nhnt11 atuljangra from same school? :D
22:22:09 <nhnt11> Huvik: Nope. We have exams at the same time though.
22:22:12 <atuljangra> Huvik: same country :P
22:22:16 <Huvik> :)
22:23:03 <-- Kaishi has quit (Quit: Kaishi)
22:24:09 <Huvik> india i am right? :)
22:24:14 <nhnt11> Yep
22:26:04 <atuljangra> Huvik: and you?
22:26:10 <Huvik> heart of europe :D
22:27:26 <atuljangra> awesome :)
22:27:26 <Mic> flo-retina, nhnt11: that's sort of the layout that I was imagining. http://www.soeren-hentzschel.at/wp-content/uploads/firefox-metro-preview-homepage.png
22:27:30 <Mic> Columns with favourite users, recent conversations, an input box that would complete in awesomebar-style, ... 
22:28:05 <nhnt11> Mic: That's very similar to what I was imagining
22:28:07 <Mic> Maybe smaller items for the next few, less often contacted, people ..
22:29:28 <Huvik> atuljangra you dont know right? :D
22:29:29 <Mic> From your description I imagined it would look like the Google homepage ;)
22:29:37 <Mic> Minus the logo/navigation bar ;)
22:29:54 <nhnt11> Haha. i mentioned columns didn't I?
22:30:14 <Mic> Ha! An "I feel lucky" button on the new conversation tab?
22:30:27 <nhnt11> Haha! An add-on for that!
22:30:31 <Huvik> there is no autofinish of users right? :D
22:30:58 <atuljangra> Huvik: Slovenia I believe?
22:31:10 <Huvik> close :) but not enought :D
22:31:33 <atuljangra> oh :( then?
22:31:48 <Mic> Czech republic?
22:31:53 <nhnt11> poland?
22:31:54 <nhnt11> wait
22:32:35 <atuljangra> Switzerland?
22:32:47 * atuljangra some country in Europe? :P
22:32:48 <Mic> My guess is based on whois info btw ;)
22:33:02 <atuljangra> Mic: heh :P that's not allowed :P
22:33:14 <qlum> Austria would have been my guess otherwise
22:33:45 <nhnt11> Mic: That's cheating :/
22:34:08 <qlum> indeed is
22:35:52 <Huvik> Mic is right :p
22:36:14 <qlum> interesting it seems that a -at the end of a nick is not included in the nick color 
22:36:16 * qlum is now known as qlum-
22:36:20 <qlum-> try it
22:36:24 <qlum-> qlum-
22:36:25 <nhnt11> It is
22:36:34 <nhnt11> I see your nick in green
22:36:35 <nhnt11> including the -
22:36:38 <qlum-> strange
22:36:43 <Mic> I don't.
22:36:52 <qlum-> I am using the bubbles theme now
22:36:57 <nhnt11> I'm using simple
22:37:03 <nhnt11> test qlum-
22:37:06 <qlum-> I wanted to give bubles a chance 
22:37:07 <Mic> It's your old nick, greyed out
22:37:17 <flo-retina> Mic: in that design, would you display some items several times?
22:37:20 <nhnt11> Ah when it's mentioned
22:37:38 * qlum- is now known as qlum2
22:37:44 <qlum2> qlum qlum- qlum2
22:37:45 <nhnt11> qlum2: test
22:37:51 <nhnt11> The 2 is definitely coloured
22:37:53 <flo-retina> if a favorite contact is also the most frequent conversation and the most recent conversation?
22:38:05 <qlum2> yes but the - clearly was not
22:38:10 <nhnt11> flo-retina: I mention something about purging dupes in my proposal ;)
22:38:18 <flo-retina> also, why should I care as a user if someone is displayed there because of recent conversations of because he clicked on a "favorite" thing?
22:38:36 * qlum2 is now known as qlum
22:38:41 <flo-retina> nhnt11: what I'm saying is that purging dups is incompatible with that design showing categories ;)
22:38:52 <nhnt11> Yeah, okay :)
22:39:03 <nhnt11> Anyway I still think there should be some way to select any contact
22:39:27 <nhnt11> Some sort of new take on the buddy list. (A buddy tab? Lol?)
22:39:48 <Mic> hmm, I would have suggested to remove duplicates from that too.
22:40:14 <nhnt11> flo-retina: Do you have any other comments?
22:40:26 <Mic> I wouldn't have shown the conversations, I think
22:41:35 <flo-retina> Mic: the real reason why I dislike the multi-column layout though is that it causes multiple things on the screen to compete for the user's attention
22:42:19 <Huvik> where i can find xul file of chat window? :p
22:42:45 <flo-retina> Huvik: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/instantbird.xul
22:43:32 <Huvik> ty :p
22:43:39 <Mic> flo-retina: I don't think that's too bad. I definitely wouldn't like the screen to be crowded but that's hardly the case on this screenshot.
22:44:39 <atuljangra> flo-retina: implementation of file transfer over webrtc should be included in the project, right? I would love to do it.
22:44:57 <flo-retina> Mic: that's a giant window though ;)
22:45:27 <flo-retina> atuljangra: things you would love to do should be included in whatever proposal you send
22:46:12 <atuljangra> flo-retina: awesome :)
22:47:07 <Huvik> XML Parsing Error: syntax error Location: chrome://browser/content/test.xul Line Number 12, Column 1:#ifdef XP_MACOSX hm?
22:47:58 <Huvik> my fail ignore it
22:48:32 <qlum> about the multi collum thing I actually have 2 windows both running vertical tabs because I like to see multiple things at once
22:48:51 <qlum> and I mostly have a screen to spare
22:49:38 <nhnt11> I don't think it's really the same context
22:56:35 <-- qlum has quit (Quit: Getting the <censored> out.)
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23:01:16 <Mic> Good night!
23:01:35 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: No time to waste, let's go!)
23:05:27 <nhnt11> flo-retina: I just put together a very rough concept design in photoshop using a few screenshots
23:05:37 <nhnt11> Shall I pm you a link?
23:05:50 <nhnt11> Or I'll just post it here wait
23:06:05 <Huvik> i am looking forward to :p
23:06:17 <flo-retina> here is better, but you can pm if you are afraid of piracy ;)
23:06:36 <nhnt11> I'm a little embarrassed actually. Its a bit crude.
23:06:38 <nhnt11> :P
23:07:07 <Huvik> better PS then MSpaint lvl :D
23:07:33 <atuljangra> flo-retina: I've uploaded my proposal on gsoc site. Please have a look and review it whenever you are free :-)
23:07:33 <atuljangra> flo-retina: Thanks :-)
23:07:49 <nhnt11> http://grab.by/mcl0
23:07:57 <nhnt11> It's 1.6mb though, should I compress it?
23:08:51 <nhnt11> flo-retina: Basically my design deprecates the buddy list and account manager dialog :S
23:10:07 * nhnt11 likes the design a lot.
23:10:30 <flo-retina> account manager I would be surprised
23:10:34 <flo-retina> buddy list, that would be great
23:10:54 <flo-retina> uh
23:11:12 <nhnt11> flo-retina: So, thoughts? The image is a bit... bad
23:11:26 * nhnt11 doesn't think it's what flo-retina had in mind.
23:11:34 <flo-retina> I really hope you are not planning on coding something that would remotely look like this :-P
23:11:41 <flo-retina> the accounts being larger than the contacts... come on ;)
23:11:44 <nhnt11> no no no no
23:11:52 <nhnt11> I told you it's a very very bad image
23:12:09 <nhnt11> the contacts would be displayed with status, their display image, etc
23:12:46 <nhnt11> perhaps have another item in the accounts list to show recent buddies
23:13:48 <flo-retina> don't attach an image like this in a proposal ;)
23:13:53 <nhnt11> Of course not
23:14:27 <nhnt11> Give me some comment on the actual concept, I'm curious :P
23:15:51 <flo-retina> nhnt11: if you really wanted to play with photshop, I think putting a screenshot of Firefox's awesomebar inside an instantbird tab would have been closer to what I expect ;)
23:16:10 <nhnt11> flo-retina: I'm in the middle of studying for a final :(
23:17:23 <nhnt11> flo-retina: I can cook up good images tomorrow, if you'd like
23:17:36 <nhnt11> So I take it you don't like the 2-column list idea/
23:17:38 <nhnt11> ? *
23:19:06 <flo-retina> nhnt11: don't bother with images
23:20:18 <flo-retina> poorly crafted images are worse than no image at all; and we don't want to evaluate students on their photoshop skills ;). As I said, it's summer of *code*. If you need help for the UX design, we should be able to help
23:22:25 <nhnt11> flo-retina: I did not intend in any way whatsoever for that to be even remotely considered to go with the proposal. I just wanted to show you an example, right now on IRC, of what I was thinking. -_-
23:22:40 <flo-retina> ok
23:22:51 <flo-retina> then you should be thinking about your exams
23:22:52 <-- jb1 has quit (Ping timeout)
23:23:06 <Huvik> flo how is fastest way to see xul files? with nighty debug right?
23:23:06 <flo-retina> like I said, if more details are needed, mentors can request them even after the application deadline
23:23:34 <nhnt11> Alright. I'll make some changes according to what you said earlier and submit my proposal then.
23:25:23 <nhnt11> Oh and by the way, for an actual image I would actually code a dummy UI and take a screenshot of that. :S
23:25:35 <nhnt11> Anyway, bye then!
23:25:51 <flo-retina> nhnt11: it may be beter
23:25:53 <flo-retina> *better
23:26:12 <flo-retina> or if you don't want to bother with details like the size of margins/borders/... very rough mockups are nice
23:26:22 <flo-retina> I'm pretty sure I made one for this specific feature in the past :-S
23:26:29 <flo-retina> no idea of where it ended up
23:26:34 <flo-retina> I hope it was attached to a bug somewhere
23:27:20 <nhnt11> flo-retina: Just one thing.. what you want for awesome tab is completely different that what I'm saying, right?
23:27:30 <nhnt11> than*
23:28:15 <flo-retina> bleh, https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/attachment.cgi?id=430 (found by google) is exactly what I don't want :-P
23:28:15 <flo-retina> (I didn't create this one, I think it was made by clokep)
23:28:33 <flo-retina> nhnt11: not really. I think we disagree on some minor UI details.
23:28:34 <flo-retina> nhnt11: but agree on most of the work that needs to be done to get there.
23:28:59 <nhnt11> I meant for the UI ;)
23:29:13 <nhnt11> I'm glad we agree on the work :)
23:29:41 <nhnt11> flo-retina: I don't like that UI either.
23:31:00 <flo-retina> nhnt11: for UI stuff I tend to encourage minimalism, and try hard to get rid of everything that isn't strictly necessary
23:31:51 <nhnt11> I like minimalism too. In my head it didn't have the account options at all. Just had the "F" logo and "Facebook"
23:32:10 <flo-retina> yeah
23:32:27 <nhnt11> Then I was taking a screenshot and couldn't be bothered doing it properly... so I added in the "New Account" button there for kicks ;)
23:32:53 <flo-retina> trying thinking about what you would like to see as a user using this thing; instead of thinking as a developer wondering "where can I stuff this thing that is absolutely required to have someone because some users may need it?"
23:33:08 <flo-retina> *try
23:33:26 <flo-retina> s/someone/somewhere/
23:33:29 <flo-retina> (time to go to bed I guess)
23:33:40 <nhnt11> I personally want it to display online contacts somehow
23:33:50 <nhnt11> Because I hate having to open another window just for that
23:34:15 <nhnt11> And the contact list window isn't easily accessible, cmd+shift+C is not an easy shortcut. The only other way is the menu.
23:34:44 <nhnt11> And honestly I don't get why it's under "Tools" :S
23:34:58 <nhnt11> I'm off to study now. Will be back in 15 hours or so.
23:35:01 <nhnt11> Good night!
23:39:34 <flo-retina> you should be happy that you can close it ;)
23:39:42 <flo-retina> it's a mac-only feature :)
23:40:25 <flo-retina> Good night :)
23:40:34 <nhnt11> What is that supposed to mean
23:40:42 <nhnt11> you can't close the contacts window in Windows?
23:41:40 <nhnt11> I'm out.
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23:45:49 <Huvik> flo-retina: what is fastest way to check instantbird xul files? when i dont want to build again?
23:46:03 <flo-retina> I've no idea of what that question means
23:47:38 <Huvik> nvm