#instantbird log on 04 29 2013

All times are UTC.

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00:24:33 <instant-buildbot> build #0 of macosx-release-1.4 is complete: Failure [failed shell_3]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-release-1.4/builds/0
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04:08:20 <deOmega1> hi MIc   With tabs on the bottom.. your smile addon does not work.    I suppose that shoudl be expected since there is no  statusbar,..
04:08:38 <deOmega1> But couldn't we have teh smiley option on teh end of the text entry area?
04:08:48 <deOmega1> The right side
04:09:33 <deOmega1>  This addon;  https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/318
04:09:42 <deOmega1> Night.  WIll check the log tomorrow
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08:48:04 <Mic> deOmega: hi! It's a good suggestion to move it into the textbox (or over it, using a  floating panel which is semi-transparent and fades in when you hover it with the mouse) but I'd need to make sure that it doesn't interact badly when the user is editing text. Unfortunately it doesn't sound like something that I've currently got time to implement. Sorry :(
08:49:40 <Mic> flo-retina, Even: the Windows and MacOS RCs failed to build.
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09:07:19 <Even> Yeah, I saw hat.
09:07:22 <Even> *that
09:07:28 <Even> Though I don't know why they did ^^
09:07:53 <Even> I'm looking into windows right now.
09:12:18 <aleth> yay RCs :)
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09:13:02 <Mic> Yes, you were lucky ;)
09:13:10 * aleth is a bit disappointed bug 1880 did not land as it was (partly) a regression and the patch was sitting around for ages
09:13:14 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1880 nor, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Clicking on "status dot" to go Online does not work
09:13:20 <aleth> Oh well, not that important either :)
09:15:08 <Even> ok
09:15:14 <Even> the Windows problem is a known one :(
09:15:32 <Even> I already talked about flo but I don't remember we thought about it enough to solve the issue :)
09:15:50 <Even> Well, I'm fixing it manually for now.
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09:41:20 <aleth> Mic: Do you speak Polish or how did you get that locale ready? :)
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09:41:54 <Mic> I emailed the translator nicely :)
09:42:04 <aleth> Mic:  ah excellent :)
09:42:16 <Mic> Speaking of languages, I've always wondered what your native language is, aleth :)
09:42:46 <Mic> Your english's good enough that you could be a native speaker, imo ;)
09:43:27 <Mic> I totally understand if you wouldn't want to tell. You're quite concerned regarding personal details on the web from what I've seen.
09:44:01 <aleth> Yes it's my native language
09:46:09 <aleth> Do you know where the mozilla summit for Europe is going to be?
09:46:31 <Mic> I don't know? Have you applied on Mozillians?
09:46:39 <Mic> "I don't know."
09:46:45 <aleth> Well, so far I only added myself to that group...
09:47:18 <aleth> There doesn't seem to be any info there after you do that though.
09:48:13 <Even> Windows is bulding properly :)
09:48:19 <Mic> It would certainly be interesting but I've not contributed enough to Mozilla to apply for that with a good conscience.
09:48:23 <aleth> Thanks Even :)
09:48:32 <Even> My pleasure ^^
09:48:57 <Even> I can't help for Mac OS X.
09:49:05 <Even> It seems a package is missing on the slave.
09:49:10 <Even> flo will have to look himself into it.
09:49:28 <aleth> Mic: I'm not sure about applying either, but will see as more details emerge
09:50:53 <aleth> I don't have a good idea of what a "mozilla summit" is ;)
09:52:13 <Even> I joined the group on Mozillians too.
09:52:16 <Even> After that we'll see.
09:53:23 <Even> But don't say you have not done enough. Working on a project as a side project when you have a "main" job is straining and is a significant dedication (or so I believe).
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10:04:43 <Mic> Deadline for signing up to the summit was April, 17th, so it's a bit late to reconsider :(
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10:26:03 <aleth> Mic: Could you look at the two add-on updates on AIO please? No real review needed (it's just upstream changes)
10:26:04 <Mic> Joined anyways, you never know ;)
10:26:12 * aleth is bumping add-ons
10:31:10 <Mic> Done!
10:31:12 <aleth> Mic: thanks :)
10:31:14 <Mic> Thanks for the notice.
10:31:22 <Mic> gtg
10:31:24 <aleth> I'd completely forgotten about them...
10:31:56 <Mic> I hadn't checked AIO either for a few weeks now.
10:32:06 <Mic> I should put that into a checklist.
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10:37:00 * aleth wonders if there is a way to mass-bump all the emoticon themes
10:37:14 <aleth> and the message styles...
10:38:39 <aleth> Probably not, or it would have been done that way for the last releases ;)
10:45:34 <clokep> aleth: Even or flo-retina can do it by touching the database directly, I believe.
10:48:12 <Even> Probably.
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11:14:45 <flo-retina> aleth: the summit in Europe will be in Paris
11:15:24 <flo-retina> clokep, Even: the magic query to mass bump all message themes is on https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:release_process iirc
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11:32:41 * aleth has only a very vague idea of what 'talkilla' is, but wonders if there should be a JS proto for it at some point
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12:01:38 <deOmega1> Mic:  Thank you very much.    That would be a really good implementation
12:02:12 <deOmega1> re: the smiley on the text entry area
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12:10:10 <clokep_work> aleth: I think flo has mentioned that before.
12:10:33 <aleth> clokep_work: Really? Great :)
12:11:05 <aleth> I was looking at the talkilla wiki, which doesn't say much but does suggest a contact/presence API
12:11:58 <clokep_work> I think they've gone back and forth about how much of that to support? But I'm unsure.
12:12:01 * clokep_work shrugs.
12:12:13 <clokep_work> http://www.xkcd.com/927/ is all I have to say on the subject. ;)
12:12:35 <aleth> yes, and eventually it will support email ;)
12:12:48 * aleth notes IB seems to be approaching that point :P
12:14:48 <clokep_work> Bleh.
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13:47:03 <instant-buildbot> build #2 of win32-release-1.4 is complete: Failure [failed shell_3]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-release-1.4/builds/2
13:49:35 <clokep_work> Hah.
13:49:46 <clokep_work> Highlight updated itself and started working again. :)
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13:50:55 <aleth> clokep_work: Do you happen to have a highlight code that pings for Instantbird but not on #instantbird? Always wondered if that was possible with Highlight, but never actually checked
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13:51:30 <clokep_work> aleth: It's the example on https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/250 ;)
13:51:58 <aleth> clokep_work: :D awesome!
13:52:05 <clokep_work> (Except I always find the logic in Highlight to be reversed from how I think...so I applied DeMorgan's law to that statement...)
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13:56:34 <clokep_work> aleth: You don't need to restart after changing it btw.
13:56:39 <clokep_work> (ALthough maybe you were updating.)
13:56:48 <aleth> clokep_work: I just installed it.
13:57:15 <clokep_work> Hm...it doesn't seem to show these pings in convs on hold thouhg. :-S
13:57:45 <aleth> Probably hooks into messages when they are displayed, which is a bit late.
13:58:44 <aleth> (for convs on hold that is)
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14:01:09 <flo-retina> clokep_work: I think it was created before convs on hold existed
14:01:23 <flo-retina> I'm disappointed that the win build failed :(
14:01:53 <clokep_work> aleth: Probably, just disappointing. :(
14:03:33 <aleth> clokep_work: It does mean it won't work for the use case of "#maildev will open itself if something interesting happens there" ;)
14:06:13 <aleth> Even thought he had fixed the Windows issue :(
14:07:02 <flo-retina> aleth: it's a different one
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14:41:41 <flo-retina> Mac is uploading
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14:51:49 <aleth> I hope some of the students interested in Skype will apply for some of the other projects instead...
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15:00:47 <qlum> you mean people are actually interested in getting skype working
15:00:48 <clokep_work> Hopefully. :-/
15:01:02 <qlum> Personally I think skype never really works well in other clients
15:01:17 <aleth> qlum: Their licensing among other things makes it very difficult
15:01:41 <qlum> I remembered in the past other clients just had to have skype open at the same time
15:02:25 <qlum> furthermore since as far as I know instantbird doesn't really work with sound and video it would be kind of useless.
15:02:54 <clokep_work> qlum: There's al ot of build in assumptions to what you just said.
15:03:09 <clokep_work> 1. Skype does not need to be left open if you use their SDK instead of their desktop API.
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15:03:26 <clokep_work> 2. Instantbird doesn't currently support voice / video, you make it sound like it works poorly.
15:03:41 <clokep_work> And if you initiate video using their Skype SDK, I believe it opens in a separate window.
15:03:47 <qlum> well I remember that was the case way back, when I still used skype
15:03:48 <clokep_work> 3. A TON of people use Skype for text chat.
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15:05:13 <qlum> way back means more then 5 years ago
15:08:06 <qlum> naturally now with microsoft owning skype instead of ebay things are a little different.
15:11:30 <clokep_work> This was all from before MS bought them.
15:11:48 <qlum> yes but was it the case in 2007?
15:12:26 <qlum> or 2008, can't remember
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15:14:10 <Nirgali> Greetings!
15:14:56 <clokep_work> In 2010, probably.
15:14:58 <clokep_work> Nirgali: Hello.
15:15:39 <Nirgali> hey, I'm curious if someone here has used instantbird for hipchat
15:15:51 <clokep_work> That's some XMPP thing, right? I think someone here was using it...
15:15:52 <clokep_work> What's up?
15:16:58 <Nirgali> hipchat has this crazy thing it does, when you join a conference from a client, all other clients receive an invite to that conference
15:17:44 <Nirgali> hipchat uses a numerical ID for its user
15:17:56 <clokep_work> OK.
15:18:15 <Nirgali> but it uses your nick name to join conferences
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15:18:46 <Nirgali> that id is sent out instead of the user name and other clients get a nifty server message
15:19:15 <Nirgali> the message indicates they must connect to the group chat with the nick name rather than the numerical ID
15:19:46 <Nirgali> I wonder if it is possible to catch that server message and format it correctly
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15:21:19 <clokep_work> Nirgali: It's certainly possible. We'd need the actual message and such.
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15:22:27 <Nirgali> I don't know about the raw message, but this is what the client shows me: 11:21:51 - hipchat.com: [ERROR] Please use the nickname "Derek Mart" instead of "37252_263038" when joining rooms. Setup instructions for common clients are available online at http://help.hipchat.com
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15:22:59 <Nirgali> is there a transaction log for instantbird?
15:25:09 <Nirgali> I imagine this can be done with a simple addon
15:26:04 <clokep_work> Nirgali: "transaction log"?
15:26:08 <clokep_work> What version of Instantbird are you on?
15:26:16 <Nirgali> a log file that shows raw messages received and sent
15:26:29 <Nirgali> 1.3
15:28:00 <clokep_work> No log file.
15:28:04 <clokep_work> 1.4 includes it in the account manager.
15:28:12 <clokep_work> It'll be released soon (or you could try a nightly).
15:28:34 <Nirgali> cool
15:29:25 <Nirgali> do you guys have a good process for checking in code? I'd use nightly, but sometimes there is no guarantee that users verify their code before sending to svn :)
15:29:41 <Nirgali> generally speaking
15:29:47 <flo-retina> Nirgali: everything goes through code review
15:29:52 <Nirgali> sweet
15:30:02 <flo-retina> Nirgali: and we usually verify that things still work before pushing
15:30:04 <Nirgali> you guys have a good project
15:30:09 <Nirgali> beats adium by far
15:30:19 <clokep_work> And we don't use SVN. ;)
15:30:24 <Nirgali> git
15:30:26 <Nirgali> whatever
15:30:27 <flo-retina> Nirgali: it can happen that a nightly is partly or completely broken, but that's rare (I would say once or twice a year on average)
15:30:40 <flo-retina> and that's what nightlies are there for anyway: catching our mistakes quickly :)
15:30:46 <Nirgali> heh
15:30:48 <Nirgali> indeed
15:31:01 <clokep_work> And usually if they're broken it's only for a day.
15:31:19 <Nirgali> I'll grab nightly and see if the message provides more details
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15:31:42 <clokep_work> Anyway, I'm not sure if this can be done via an add-on or not...can you intercept XMPP messages like that flo-retina?
15:31:45 <Nirgali> what's interesting is when joining the conference on other clients, hipchat joins that conference without issue
15:32:07 <flo-retina> clokep_work: it's likely possible, but I'm not sure
15:32:23 <flo-retina> and it would really be easier to see what the XMPP stanzas are, rather than speculating
15:32:31 <flo-retina> ah wait, that's libpurple xmpp, not js-xmpp, right? :-/
15:32:50 <Nirgali> hope you're not asking me
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15:33:08 <Nirgali> I don't think hipchat uses libpurple
15:33:16 <clokep_work> Nirgali: Instantbird does.
15:33:19 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Yes, it would be. :(
15:33:35 * clokep_work wonders if HipChat has enough weird things that someone would be interested in making it a separate prpl...
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15:34:27 <Nirgali> yeah another weird thing is the "mention" they use @name for nick completion and the hipchat client does wierd crap with that
15:34:46 <Nirgali> it also has s/search/replace/ ability on the last message you type
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15:35:18 <Nirgali> s/last/first/
15:35:29 <Nirgali> as an example :)
15:35:34 <clokep_work> Nirgali: Someone in here had complained about the @name before...and made an extension for it.
15:35:45 * clokep_work would like s/foo/bar/ to work in Instantbird.
15:36:06 <Nirgali> I think the transport needs to support that?
15:36:14 <Nirgali> I don't know much about this sort of thing
15:36:32 <clokep_work> Nirgali: https://github.com/spiffytech/instantbird_replacer
15:36:36 <Nirgali> is there a general bucket a client can use to send information to other users using the same client
15:36:49 <clokep_work> We'd need to see the XML to know what they're doing.
15:36:51 <Nirgali> I mean for development purposes
15:37:00 <Nirgali> and speaking generally
15:37:08 <clokep_work> I don't know what you mean, sorry.
15:37:08 <Nirgali> I know there are base protocol things for each transport
15:37:23 <Nirgali> but is there an extended set that you can put custom messages in
15:37:39 <Nirgali> that users of the same client will interpret
15:38:12 <Nirgali> nevermind, it's unimportant
15:38:43 <Nirgali> "because their highlighting policy is stupid"   I agree
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15:39:56 <clokep_work> I don't know XMPP well enough to comment on whether you can send arbitrary content.
15:40:41 <Nirgali> I mean it's supposed to be an extensible protocol :)
15:42:18 <clokep_work> Yup.
15:44:04 <clokep_work> !seen spiffytech
15:44:05 <instantbot> I've never seen a 'spiffytech', sorry.
15:44:15 <clokep_work> Oh...he's in here. Haha. :)
15:44:32 <clokep_work> You might want to ask spiffytech if he's solved any of these issues / maybe you guys can work together to do it? :)
15:44:45 <Nirgali>  that would be cool
15:45:55 <Nirgali> looks like I need a javascript interpreter
15:46:16 <clokep_work> Instantbird has one. :p
15:46:34 <Nirgali> oh okay
15:46:55 <Nirgali> can I just drop the javascript into the addons directory?
15:47:26 <clokep_work> No, it has to be inside of an XPI / extension folder.
15:47:47 <clokep_work> I think we have a wiki page on this...one second.
15:48:07 <clokep_work> Nirgali: https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Extension
15:48:09 <Nirgali> so instantbird uses the @ for nick completion
15:48:46 <Nirgali> there is no dana, only XUL!
15:49:01 <Nirgali> sorry I say that everytime I see XUL
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15:58:47 <clokep_work> That extension suppoesdly makes it work, yes.
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16:22:14 <instant-buildbot> build #1 of macosx-release-1.4 is complete: Failure [failed shell_3]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-release-1.4/builds/1
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17:23:24 <flo-retina> uploading builds would be a lot less painful if we dropped partial mars that weight almost as much as the complete mars :-/
17:23:48 <clokep_work> "almost" being...75%ish?
17:23:51 <clokep_work> How hard would that be to add?
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17:29:45 <flo-retina> like, this is just ridiculous:
17:29:46 <flo-retina> instantbird-1.4.cs.mac.complete.mar                                                                    100%   39MB  62.8KB/s   10:35    
17:29:47 <flo-retina> instantbird-1.4.cs.mac.partial.from-20120805185703.mar                                                 100%   37MB  58.7KB/s   10:38    
17:29:50 <flo-retina> instantbird-1.4.cs.mac.partial.from-20121113142845.mar                                                 100%   36MB  59.3KB/s   10:22    
17:30:07 <clokep_work> Whoa, Mac builds are HUGE.
17:31:19 <flo-retina> uploading each locale takes half an hour...
17:31:53 <flo-retina> also, the machine we used to build previous releases was different, so the compiler is likely different, so we probably have binary files that are 100% different...
17:32:45 <flo-retina> "half an hour" just for the mar files
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17:40:39 <clokep_work> :-/
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18:08:45 <flo-retina> I think I'll just delete these partial update mar files
18:10:17 <Nirgali> well I got the error messages in the console for the hipchat issue
18:13:09 <clokep_work> Nirgali: OK. As flo said earlier...this is most likely using libpurple's XMPP implementation...which we're not really fixing bugs in as we hope to replace it soon.
18:13:23 <Nirgali> oh okay
18:13:45 <Nirgali> there is a reference to lib purple
18:14:02 <Nirgali> out of curiosity, why switching from libpurple?
18:14:28 <clokep_work> Because we have our own implementation that is more flexible.
18:14:32 <clokep_work> And not GPLed.
18:14:36 <Nirgali> fwiw, I didn't jump on the libpurple bandwagon. I didn't like it.
18:14:52 <clokep_work> There are probably other reasons too. :P
18:14:57 <Nirgali> hehe
18:15:28 <Nirgali> back when gaim switched to libpurple and renamed to pidgin, the code base I was enjoying went out the window
18:15:47 <clokep_work> OK.
18:16:04 <Nirgali> too much info I guess 
18:16:05 <clokep_work> libpurple is "good" to quickly add multi protocol support to a program.
18:16:06 <Nirgali> sorry
18:16:08 <clokep_work> But I can't say I'm a fan of it.
18:16:58 <Nirgali> well, I think it is good to start out with it and then work away from it after you become familiar enough with that kind of development
18:17:10 <Nirgali> but taking an old project and switching to it...
18:17:50 <Nirgali> well anyway
18:18:22 <Nirgali> is there a roadmap for the in-house replacement?
18:18:27 <clokep_work> It's my understanding that gaim become pidgin...not that it "switched" backends.
18:18:36 <clokep_work> I don't really know what you mean by that.
18:18:48 <clokep_work> There are some bugs filed.
18:18:53 <clokep_work> GTalk and Facebook already use our XMPP stuff.
18:19:06 <Nirgali> I saw that on the site
18:19:10 <Nirgali> I was impressed :)
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18:19:57 <Nirgali> gaim did become pidgin, it's my understanding that it was a complete rework from the ground up
18:21:07 <flo-retina> Nirgali: that understanding is wrong
18:21:12 <flo-retina> libpurple is what used to be libgaim
18:21:23 <Nirgali> right
18:22:03 <flo-retina> and if my understanding is correct (I wasn't around yet at the time) libgaim and Gaim were separated at the time to simplify the creation of Adium.
18:22:06 <Nirgali> the name changed because of the crap AOL dished out
18:22:38 <Nirgali> but in looking at the code tree, it seemed to me that it was a complete rewrite, I guess I could be wrong
18:22:59 <Nirgali> I used to be one of the core beta testers but my memory is often faulty
18:23:51 <Nirgali> maybe I'm confusing adium
18:23:56 <Nirgali> one of the two was a complete rewrite
18:25:11 <Nirgali> at the very least the pidgin UI was a rewrite, maybe not the protocol suite
18:25:36 <Nirgali> because the addon I was working on I had to stop after the switcharoo
18:27:06 <clokep_work> They broke API compatibility, doesn't mean it was a complete rewrite.
18:27:18 <Nirgali> fair enough
18:27:26 <flo-retina> Nirgali: it was Gaim 2.0 that reworked large parts of the UI (and back-end)
18:27:46 <flo-retina> it certainly wasn't a complete rewrite though :)
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18:28:03 <Nirgali> gotcha
18:28:12 <Nirgali> I'm not trying to be right here
18:28:29 <Nirgali> ^.^
18:28:48 <Nirgali> sigh being paged again
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18:40:01 <nhnt11> Hi clokep_work, flo-retina. My exams start from tomorrow (technically today, it's 12:10am), so I won't be able to hang around here much.
18:42:05 <nhnt11> I hope to send another updated version of my proposal in a day or two max. I'd appreciate any other feedback you have before I finally submit it.
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19:10:33 <clokep_work> nhnt11: FYI I'm going on vacation and won't have internet access (most likely) for about a week.
19:10:45 <clokep_work> But flo should be able to respond (and I think Mic had some comments).
19:11:54 <nhnt11> That's great, have fun!
19:12:31 <nhnt11> I've already updated the proposal to discuss the ranking parameters a bit
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19:14:18 <clokep_work> Cool. :)
19:14:26 <clokep_work> I'll be around until tomorrow afternoon (my time).
19:15:07 * nhnt11 quickly checks his clock
19:15:27 <nhnt11> That's somewhere around 24 hours?
19:15:58 <clokep_work> Probably more like 22 hours from now, yes. :)
19:19:32 <nhnt11> Quick question: since I don't have any work/internship experience, would it be better to just omit that section completely?
19:19:59 <clokep_work> I think it's better to show that you acknowledge it than for someone to think you forgot to do it.
19:20:19 <nhnt11> That makes sense, thanks.
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21:01:56 <flo-retina> The Mac rc is ready to be tested
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21:29:04 <clokep> :) Any word on the Windows one?
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21:33:14 <Mic> It's compiling...
21:34:06 <Mic> Great, now I'm wondering if flo is participating in a sword fight on office chairs at the moment ;)
21:35:27 <Mic> (That's a reference to xkcd 303 for all those who don't know it. It's lame to mention that but hopefully it will keep people from thinking that I'm completely weird;)
21:41:32 <Mic> Good night
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