#instantbird log on 04 08 2013

All times are UTC.

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01:57:11 <clokep> dew: We've discussed having clickable links in the topic a bunch of times (I can't find a bug for it).
01:57:14 <clokep> It's certainly wanted.
01:58:18 <dew> I knew you missed me
02:02:04 <dew> I'll get to this okc plugin eventually :/ hopefully after I make up some hours this week
02:02:16 <EionRobb> did you get a copy of the protocol docs?
02:07:02 <dew> this one? http://eion.robbmob.com/okcupid.html
02:16:20 <clokep> Yes.
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02:51:41 <instant-buildbot> build #834 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/834
03:03:28 <EionRobb> yeah, that one :)
03:44:43 <instant-buildbot> build #830 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/830
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05:07:05 <instant-buildbot> build #927 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/927
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09:39:10 <aleth> flo: "would you like to tell the Identity team about that?" I filed a bug a long time ago, I even went to the trouble to find their github page to do it ;)
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09:42:12 <aleth> Hmm, they seem to think it closed. 
09:42:34 <aleth> I wonder why it isn't working for me then...
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09:48:17 <aleth> Fixed for moz18 apparently.
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09:53:51 <flo-retina> "I looked for information they and many others posted at different places about this in the past 2 weeks, and I have reached my limit. I didn't enjoy it one bit. Maybe in another 2 weeks I could make everything work, but it's just not worth it for me. I won't write more about MSVC on this mailing list." ohoh. That looks to me like a "no" answer ;).
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10:07:06 <aleth> Sounds like he wanted his own project ;)
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10:21:44 <flo-retina> aleth: that was relatively obvious from the first message ;)
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10:32:29 <clokep> Mic: I disagree that middle click conversation on hold shouldn't open.
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10:32:39 <clokep> I use that feature constantly. And it matches a feature that we added for participants.
10:38:06 <Mic> Nevermind then.
10:39:29 <Mic> I'm not using it much anyways.
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11:13:34 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 2329 on bug 1732.
11:13:37 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1732 enh, --, 1.4, aleth, RESO FIXED, Port the log tree and concatenated daily logs from TB
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11:35:17 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org cancelled feedback?(florian@instantbi rd.org) for attachment 2330 on bug 1922.
11:35:19 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1922 enh, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Use weekdays instead of dates for "last week" group in log viewer
11:36:42 <jhk> Flo-retina: About the UI for Filelinks. I have divided it in two parts.  
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11:37:03 <jhk> oh
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11:37:20 <jhk> Flo-retina: About the UI for Filelinks. I have divided it in two parts.
11:37:31 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org requested review from benediktp@ymail.com  for attachment 2331 on bug 1922.
11:37:33 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1922 enh, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Use weekdays instead of dates for "last week" group in log viewer
11:37:54 <jhk> Flo-retina: Part 1: 
11:37:54 <jhk> #1 Right click on the nick name -> click send file -> should popup filepicker
11:37:54 <jhk> #2 I am thinking of putting pin icon somewhere(on statusbar?). when user clicks on the pin. The file picker should popup
11:38:27 <jhk>  Part 2:
11:38:27 <jhk> And when user done selecting files.This is what should happen in chat box message.
11:38:27 <jhk> #1 When file starts uploading. There should be an element as a child of message which should look like this. http://www.flickr.com/photos/71860059@N03/8631466336/in/photostream. (depending on the theme)along with the progress icon(upload status).
11:38:38 <jhk> Message will only delivered when file upload finishes.
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11:39:34 * aleth thinks he should probably do the participant context menus then ;)
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11:41:08 <aleth> jhk: Just fyi, we are planning to get rid of the status bar at some point in the future.
11:41:37 <jhk> aleth: oh
11:41:46 <aleth> It sounds to me like #1 applies to MUCs, and #2 is what you are suggesting for normal conversations?
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11:42:46 <aleth> For normal conversations we could simply add File transfer to the context menu of the conversations. There should also be a command of course (bypassing the file picker)
11:47:50 <jhk> aleth: ok so for normal conversations we will use context menu and for MUCs I should go with #1? right?
11:48:13 <jhk> and what about the uploading status?
11:48:17 <aleth> jhk: It sounds reasonable to me, but maybe others have better ideas :)
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11:48:57 <jhk> also we need to give options for stop upload and stuff
11:49:28 <aleth> For uploading status, it's not trivial to add things to messages. Maybe to start with you could simply have a progress bar at the top of the conversation, done in XUL. You could also put buttons in it (like FF notification bars)
11:50:26 <aleth> flo may not agree, but I would suggest working on the backend first, and just adding a command to the UI for testing to start with.
11:50:59 <aleth> Have you thought about how the file transfer provider is to be selected? Is that going to be automatic or...?
11:52:37 <aleth> Another possibility for the progress bar/uploading controls may be to look at the FF download panel code and see if that can be easily reused. 
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11:54:40 <jhk> yes.. there is account manager which gives us the Ui for selecting the provider from it?
11:55:22 <aleth> I'm not sure what you mean exactly. Where does that account manager live?
11:56:57 <aleth> Is it a pane in preferences?
11:57:55 <clokep_work> aleth: The download manager is toolkit IIRC.
11:58:30 <jhk> aleth: http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/mail/components/cloudfile/content/addAccountDialog.js?
11:58:45 <aleth> clokep_work: it may be very download-specific, rely on the "Library" etc, idk
11:59:21 <aleth> jhk: I know TB has code for this, the question is where do you put it in the IB UI? And what about non-Filelink transfer methods that may be added in the future?
11:59:26 <clokep_work> aleth: You're thinking of mconley's new work for Firefox., I think.
12:00:10 <aleth> clokep_work: Yes, I mean the new Firefox one, which has a little progress bar icon and a dropdown that allows cancellation.
12:00:16 <clokep_work> aleth: Your patch in bug 1922 doesn't have new strings added, should it?
12:00:19 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1922 enh, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Use weekdays instead of dates for "last week" group in log viewer
12:00:33 <aleth> clokep_work: No, the strings are already there.
12:00:51 <aleth> Date/time l10n is a minefield, I'm glad we can just reuse.
12:00:55 <clokep_work> aleth: All that is in the old one also. ;) It's just not as pretty. Anyway, I agree with you that jhk could add some place holder UI at first (a notification bar).
12:01:00 <clokep_work> OK! :)
12:05:44 <jhk> I agree. but application 
12:07:49 <clokep_work> jhk: It might help to make some mock ups (hand drawn or computer drawn) of what you'd like the UI to look like.
12:08:00 <clokep_work> That old saying of "a picture is worth a thousand words" is usually true for UI.
12:08:18 <clokep_work> jhk: In particular it might be good to show step by step what you'd like the user experience to look like.
12:08:35 <jhk> I tried to make it. I thought discussing before that would be good idea.
12:08:58 <aleth> Always a good idea :)
12:09:17 <clokep_work> jhk: And I think we're discussing, right? :P
12:09:27 <aleth> clokep_work: Do you still have  link to the mockups wnayes did last year?
12:09:42 <clokep_work> I think what you said makes sense and aleth is trying to ensure you take into account some other concepts that might not have occurred to you.
12:09:44 <clokep_work> aleth: I was about to post that!
12:09:55 <clokep_work> jhk: Our GSoC student last year's application looked something like this: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~nayes006/gsoc/instantbird.php
12:10:08 <jhk> yup.. I saw that :)
12:13:52 <clokep_work> Excellent! :)
12:14:10 <clokep_work> So personally I don't LOVE aleth's suggestion of different UI for a MUC vs. a private conversation.
12:14:21 <clokep_work> I would actually wonder whether transferring in a MUC even makes sense.
12:14:26 <aleth> clokep_work: I didn't mean a different UI
12:14:27 <clokep_work> What do oyu think of it?
12:14:46 <aleth> clokep_work: I meant that the participant context menu option won't be there for normal conversations.
12:14:51 <aleth> So you need something else too.
12:15:38 <aleth> I think you're right that MUCs are not important here.
12:19:27 <jhk> I am thinking keeping it common for all the conversations.
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12:21:34 <jhk> Incase if I want to send file to a nick. I will open private conversation and via context menu on the tabbar?
12:22:11 <clokep_work> Something like that would work, or maybe adding a button / icon directly in the UI (we do tend to have a lot of space to the right of the person's name).
12:22:15 <aleth> Sounds good.
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12:23:44 <aleth> jhk: It should definitely be in the tab context menu because that is always accessible (e.g. for blind users)
12:24:46 <jhk> clokep: when user hover over the name than attachment symbol should show up. but then as aleth said accessibility will be the problem.
12:25:20 <clokep_work> jhk: "over the name" where?
12:25:21 <aleth> jhk: Putting it in the context menus doesn't mean we can't have other ways as well.
12:26:56 <jhk> clokep_work: on the participants list. 
12:27:11 <jhk> aleth: agree
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12:35:36 <clokep_work> jhk: OK. I think there are more interesting aspects of the UI from how to start a file transfer anyway, like showing progress, etc.
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12:39:27 <clokep_work> flo-retina: You just got disconnected "too many invalid passwords"? (o_O)
12:39:45 <flo-retina> Error: Received unexpected ERROR response: Closing Link: flo-retina[ks368640.kimsufi.com] concrete.mozilla.org (services.mozilla.org (Too many invalid passwords)) Source File: resource:///modules/ircBase.jsm
12:39:47 <flo-retina> :(
12:40:11 <flo-retina> I was trying to identify with chanserv to set an entrymsg to #WebRTC-Apps
12:40:34 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Oh, OK. So this wasn't our code that did this. ;)
12:40:54 <flo-retina> I still find it a strange behavoir
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12:42:14 <flo-retina> it's strange that jh k is pinging me with an upper case letter at the beginning of my nick :-S
12:42:26 <flo-retina> I don't think our completion can cause that
12:42:42 <aleth> flo-retina: he probably hasn't discovered completion yet ;)
12:42:45 <clokep_work> Maybe jhk isn't using tab completion. ;)
12:46:48 <aleth> jhk: http://blog.instantbird.org/2012/08/tab-completion-in-instantbird-1-2/ ;)
12:49:41 <jhk> aleth: completion is first thing I tested on instantbird. just not used to it. :)
12:50:12 <flo-retina> ok, I read the log. Here are some thoughts about file transfer and UI.
12:50:45 <flo-retina> If what you want to work on is the back-end, then for the UI, do something as simple as possible (just enough to show that the back-end works fine would be enough)
12:51:08 <flo-retina> If you are interested in UX, then it's great if you want to spend time on it too :)
12:51:34 <flo-retina> I wouldn't bother with MUCs. They are a corner case, and as someone said, it's easy to open a private conversation with someone and to send the file from that private tab.
12:52:57 <flo-retina> For the progress UI, 2 ideas:
12:52:57 <flo-retina> 1. show a system message that includes a progress bar (likely difficult to implement; will likely need help from aleth. I think that's what Adium does).
12:52:57 <flo-retina> 2. Do something very similar to what Firefox does for downloads (download manager window / panel / whatever...).
12:54:01 <flo-retina> It's not directly relevant for the FileLink case, but the part of the UI that's problematic IMHO for file transfer over IM in general is the UI to accept/reject a file, and decide in which folder it will be saved.
12:54:43 <flo-retina> Lots of IM clients display a modal popup dialog asking if the user wants to save the file someone is attempting to send them; that's awful.
12:56:13 <clokep_work> I think also how much should be in "content" vs "in chrome" is also a useful point to make...
12:58:06 * jhk noting down..
12:59:16 <clokep_work> (E.g. putting the progress bar in a system message doesn't make sense to me because it could potentially scroll offscreen, but it's still useful information to show somewhere.)
12:59:50 <flo-retina> clokep_work: could be a notification bar at the bottom of the content area
12:59:55 <clokep_work> But at the same time...it's probably useful to show when a file transfer was initiated in terms of an overall conversation.
12:59:58 <flo-retina> clokep_work: would be easier to implement :)
13:00:14 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Precisely! Why do something hard if it doesn't make sense in the first place!
13:00:19 <flo-retina> clokep_work: yes, we likely want a system message when a transfer is offered, started, finished, canceled
13:00:45 <aleth> flo-retina: nb for the case of filelink, "offered" is *after* the upload has finished
13:00:53 <flo-retina> clokep_work: I just said those were ideas, not "things that need to be implemented as is" ;)
13:01:11 <flo-retina> aleth: do we even want to do anything on the receiving end for filelink?
13:01:34 <aleth> jhk: Filelink really is a special case. So I'd avoid only thinking in terms of Filelink when designing the UI. (I was trying to make that point earlier)
13:01:56 <aleth> flo-retina: I don't think so - it's just a link in a message, right?
13:02:16 <flo-retina> aleth: we could attempt to download the target of the link automatically and to save it
13:02:32 <aleth> (It even makes sense to "file transfer to a MUC" for filelink, which I think confused the discussion earlier)
13:05:02 <jhk> aleth: I see
13:05:18 <clokep_work> (Theoretically DCC to an IRC channel "makes sense" too. ;))
13:05:28 <clokep_work> (But let's ignore that, please.)
13:05:32 <aleth> clokep_work: IRC never ceases to amaze :P
13:08:06 <clokep_work> flo-retina: I think the receiving case of file link is mostly "This opens in a browser and you download it", I think that's what TB does.
13:08:47 <flo-retina> clokep_work: that's the minimal handling (and likely good enough for a first version)
13:10:38 <flo-retina> clokep_work: we could also detect that it's a file transferred by another Ib, and treat it like a file transfer
13:10:50 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Of course.
13:10:52 <clokep_work> jhk: Does all this make sense?
13:11:05 <jhk> clokep_work: yes
13:11:28 <aleth> Might it be a good idea to suggest a second file transfer method for reference when thinking about the UI? (eg WebRTC or XMPP)
13:15:17 <flo-retina> aleth: isn't it part of the proposal to handle file transfer through libpurple?
13:15:25 <flo-retina> (or maybe that was a question for jhk :)
13:15:25 <flo-retina> )
13:15:53 <aleth> I don't know. I'm not sure how good the libpurple support is anyway (never got it to work back in the day when I was still using pidgin)
13:18:09 <flo-retina> the log tree makes searching something in the logs even more difficult :(
13:18:38 <aleth> flo-retina: Really? It should make it easier (much less individual entries)
13:19:02 <clokep_work> aleth: But you have to constantly open and close things.
13:19:02 <flo-retina> aleth: before it was just "press down arrow, press F3" and repeat until you find what you are looking for
13:19:08 <flo-retina> aleth: now you have to open each group
13:19:55 <jhk> flo-retina: yes It is. I haven't checked how big the file size does it supports. is there any limit on the size?
13:19:56 <aleth> flo-retina: You had to be quite expert to figure that out ;)
13:19:58 <flo-retina> aleth: shouldn't we open a group automatically when it's selected, and select the first item it contains?
13:20:02 <flo-retina> I think that would fix the issue
13:20:22 <flo-retina> aleth: it's possible that I'm quite expert at using Instantbird.
13:20:25 <clokep_work> aleth: Maybe, but it's how I do it too. :)
13:20:30 <clokep_work> (Although I usually press Ctrl+F.)
13:20:37 <aleth> It's still working around brokenness ;)
13:20:45 <clokep_work> jhk: File limit on...FileLink or libpurple's file transfer or?
13:20:48 <aleth> flo-retina: That may be a good idea, we should try it :)
13:20:53 <flo-retina> clokep_work: I hesitated between F3 and Ctrl+F, not sure of what I actually press when I don't pay attention
13:21:07 <jhk> clockep_work: libpurple's file transfer
13:21:13 * jhk again :(
13:21:16 <aleth> (When I said "brokenness" I meant that just F3 should be enough.)
13:21:20 <jhk> clokep_work: ^
13:21:27 <flo-retina> aleth: "It's still working around brokenness ;)" I'm interested in fixing the real brokenness here. But not going to happen for 1.4
13:21:35 <aleth> flo-retina: :)
13:21:52 <flo-retina> jhk: you should really use tab completion when replying to someone ;)
13:22:02 <flo-retina> jhk: or just double click on that person's message you are replying to
13:22:37 <flo-retina> aleth: the brokeness for me, is that when I type a keywords, the logs containing it are the only ones that should still be listed
13:23:00 <clokep_work> jhk: No idea, you'd have to look at their code.
13:23:05 <clokep_work> Not really sure why that matters though.
13:23:25 <aleth> flo-retina: That would be great
13:26:00 <flo-retina> aleth: opening and selecting the first item automatically would also fix the awkwardness of selecting a group and still seeing an unrelated log in the content area
13:26:12 <aleth> flo-retina: I'll put up a patch.
13:26:17 <flo-retina> cool :)
13:26:44 <jhk> clokep_work: right. size doesn't matter here its file transfer anyway. :)
13:28:36 <flo-retina> jhk: size may matter if files are larger than 2GB or 4GB, but if you want to ignore such large files for SoC, that's fine
13:30:45 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org changed the Resolution on bug 910 from WORKSFORME to INCOMPLETE.
13:30:47 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=910 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO INCOMPLETE, Dragging a buddy into a contact list changes the name of the buddy.
13:31:28 <flo-retina> I suspect bug 910 isn't really WFM (I'm pretty sure something is broken in the way contact aliases interact with server stored buddy aliases, and that it's visible in corner cases of merging/separating contacts)
13:31:38 <flo-retina> but I hate that code, so keeping the bug "resolved" is fine with me
13:34:10 <jhk> ok
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13:38:44 <jhk> flo-retina: for backend I copied cloudfile module in chat/ . 
13:38:52 <jhk> but idls and manifest files are in chat/component/public and chat/component/src. that means I will have to split the cloudfile?
13:39:28 <jhk> or is there any better way?
13:41:38 <clokep_work> jhk: They can be left separately.
13:41:47 <clokep_work> Uhh...separate.
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13:44:48 <flo-retina> jhk: it's not really important
13:44:58 <flo-retina> you can keep the cloudfile folder as is, and just adapt its makefile
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13:48:41 <jhk> ok
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13:50:24 <aleth> flo-retina: It's not as easy as it first seemed. Really messes up keyboard navigation.
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13:53:05 <aleth> e.g. navigating up the list from the bottom using cursor-up looks broken as each group is opened in turn. and the selection bar visually moves "down". (And of course navigating down the list opens each group in turn which defeats the purpose of groups for keyboard users.)
13:56:33 * clokep_work coughs *index logs*
14:00:18 <flo-retina> :(
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14:01:18 <aleth> It also feels wrong to select something with the mouse and have the "line below" highlighted.
14:02:03 <aleth> I think tree view behaviour is probably just too standard to modify ad-hoc like that, we would only break expectations & a11y.
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14:17:28 <jhk> How can I run multiple instances of Ib. nightly and stable at same time. opening nightly points me to current running Ib.
14:18:31 <aleth> jhk: try --no-remote -P (and use a different profile for each instance)
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14:21:09 <jhk> Thanks! :)
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14:57:43 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Also someone Saturday asked me where I got my TB t-shirt. ;)
15:01:59 <clokep_work> Do we have a "good first bugs" list btw?
15:02:04 <clokep_work> (Re that email on the mailing list.)
15:02:32 <aleth> clokep_work: I searched and immediately removed the flag in the one instance I found it :-/
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15:03:21 <clokep_work> aleth: We should go through and add some probably. :(
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15:26:47 <flo-retina> clokep_work: isn't the mentored bugs system a replacement for the 'good first bugs' one? (ie we can't say something is good for a beginner unless someone volunteers to help get started)
15:27:41 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Yes.
15:27:46 <clokep_work> But we don't do that either. ;)
15:27:57 <flo-retina> but feel free to do it ;)
15:31:14 <clokep_work> Is that just [mentor=foo] in the whiteboard?
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15:46:35 <Mic> hi
15:48:59 <Mic> Sending files by dropping them on the conversation content (Or the textbox? Or a participant?) would be a nice way to start a transfer in my opinion.
15:50:20 <clokep_work> Mic: I agree! :)
15:51:33 <Mic> Oh, jhk is gone :(
15:56:40 <clokep_work> Mic: Any chance you could respond to that guy on the mailing list again? (I think asking what his nick is would be a good idea.)
15:56:49 <clokep_work> And give a list of a few bugs.
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15:58:01 <Mic> Asking what his timezone is wouldn't be a bad idea either.
15:58:07 <clokep_work> Yes, good idea. :)
15:59:51 <Mic> He's said that he knew C++/C/Java iirc. Not exactly what we can offer :(
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16:53:11 <clokep_work> Mic: Say that most of Instantbird is JavaScript, but we do also have some C++ parts or whatever.
16:53:12 <instantbot> c++ is evil
16:53:16 <clokep_work> It'd be easier if he came on IRC. :P
16:53:32 * clokep_work was wondering if it was Colonel _Panic or wu wei...
16:53:40 <clokep_work> Which are just two names I don't really recognize. ;)
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17:05:26 <Mic> clokep_work: wasn't there the bug with cleaning up a purple file? I think Moo k started working on something a long time ago? Most likely not newbie-friendly, though :D
17:05:40 <Mic> *libpurple
17:07:30 <flo-retina> purpleInit.cpp
17:07:33 <clokep_work> Mic: Yes, there was.
17:07:40 <clokep_work> Yeah, purpleInit.
17:07:50 <Mic> Most likely the best way to scare someone away? :D
17:07:50 <clokep_work> There's probably other random libpurple stuff that could be "fixed".
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17:14:39 <clokep_work> :P
17:14:51 <clokep_work> Mic: Hopefully he can hook up with one of us timewise.
17:17:12 <Mic> Absolutely. Emailing back and forth takes so long :(
17:18:25 <Mic> bye
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17:19:25 <clokep_work> Ciao! Thanks. :)
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18:31:38 <flo-retina> I just typed "/ba<enter><tab>" to attempt to reconnect (I meant /back of course). The result was "Your account is disconnected because your status is currently set to offline." Kinda unexpected :-S
18:31:59 <flo-retina> I would have expected the insult to be "no /ba command"
18:32:40 <flo-retina> http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/130408#m335 yes
18:32:45 <flo-retina> clokep_work: ^^
18:33:25 <flo-retina> Mic: I agree with starting a transfer by a file drop. (could possibly need some user confirmation)
18:38:08 <clokep_work> Does /back not work if you're offline.
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18:43:32 <flo-retina> clokep_work: /back of course works
18:43:38 <flo-retina> but pressing enter before tab doesn't ;)
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18:52:42 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Really? Is that not done as a normal command?
18:52:51 <clokep_work> Is that skip the normal command processing somehow?
18:54:26 <flo-retina> hmm
18:54:58 <flo-retina> clokep_work: do you mean we have finally implemented typing only command prefixes, like hg does?
18:55:11 <flo-retina> once I'm connected : "/ba is not a supported command. Type /help to see the list of commands."
18:55:31 <clokep_work> flo-retina: I implemented that like over a year ago.
18:55:49 <clokep_work> That's why /j works.
18:56:03 <flo-retina> ah
18:56:03 <clokep_work> flo-retina: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/components/src/imCommands.js#174
18:58:06 <clokep_work> flo-retina: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/ is giving me a 500 error. :_S
18:58:45 <flo-retina> :(
18:59:06 <flo-retina> Even was 'playing' with the server this afternoon (updating some packages, and removing some that didn't seem used any more)
19:02:18 * flo-retina sent Even an SMS about this
19:02:36 <clokep_work> flo-retina: So /aw set me as away, but /ba didn't work...
19:06:48 <flo-retina> do we know what's left to do before we can release 1.4?
19:07:06 <flo-retina> bugzilla's broken too :(
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19:11:35 <clokep_work> flo-retina: I was hoping to: 1. upgrade to newest libpurple and newest Gecko.
19:12:09 <clokep_work> And bug 1100.
19:12:28 <clokep_work> And I was hoping to kill wince before upgrading Gecko.
19:12:32 <flo-retina> that's almost done, isn't it?
19:12:41 <clokep_work> (At least that first patch that removes the configure stuff.)
19:12:44 <flo-retina> (wasn't replying to the wince line)
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19:12:54 <clokep_work> Yes. I need to find some time to look at it again.
19:13:00 <clokep_work> I can look at it tonight most likely.
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19:25:26 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Do you know of anything else?
19:25:44 * clokep_work remembers having a question for Mook and now can't remember it...
19:25:46 <flo-retina> no
19:25:55 <flo-retina> I hoped to query bio for it but it's broken...
19:26:39 <clokep_work> :(
19:26:57 * clokep_work wonders if anyone knows if there's a better TeX distribution for Windows besides MiKTeX.
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19:37:33 * Mook_as hopes that wasn't the question, he doesn't know anything about TeX
19:39:10 <clokep_work> No, it wasn't. :)
19:39:21 <Arkanath> I've heard about students using TeX live  here in my university for windows.. But I've never used that, so cant tell how good it is actually.
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19:39:45 <clokep_work> TeX Live is an editor, not a compiler.
19:40:02 <clokep_work> (I've heard it's good though.)
19:40:10 <Arkanath> Oh.. :)
19:41:23 <clokep_work> Thanks!
19:41:34 <clokep_work> Anyway, back to discussion about Instantbird 1.4! :P
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20:16:19 <Mic> clokep_work: compile your TeX on Linux if that works for you?
20:16:49 <clokep_work> Mic: I don't have a Linux machine here, but that seems to be the "best" solution.
20:17:06 <Mic> When I had to write a report while on a term abroad, I logged into the Linux computers at my home university to do that ;)
20:18:38 <Mic> Run it in a VM?
20:20:15 <clokep_work> :P
20:20:55 <Mic> Run a Linux VM and write your TeX using your favourite Windows editor and Wine?;)
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20:26:26 <clokep_work> That seems like overkill. :P
20:27:47 <Mic> orly? ;)
20:28:02 <clokep_work> Bye!
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20:32:19 <flo-retina> Mic: seems you scared him away ;)
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20:33:38 <Mook_as> that does seem like overkill, assuming his favourite Windows editor is what I hope it is and has a linux port :p
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20:39:49 <Mic> Real programmers use emacs
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21:04:10 <flo-retina> Mic: are you trying to scare Mook too now? ;)
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21:09:40 <Mic> No, that was just an attempt to set up a conversation like http://xkcd.com/378/
21:11:13 <Mic> I've been using vim for a while though. It's quite OK once you've printed out a cheatsheet with the commands ;)
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22:44:03 <clokep> Mook_as: I could also just open files via SFTP. ;)
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