#instantbird log on 03 28 2013

All times are UTC.

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03:51:27 <instant-buildbot> build #823 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/823
05:23:01 <instant-buildbot> build #819 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/819
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06:11:13 <instant-buildbot> build #915 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/915
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10:16:05 <flo-retina> anybody has thoughts on http://pidgin.im/pipermail/devel/2013-March/011191.html ?
10:16:41 <flo-retina> also, "A native Windows client would be a great service to the Windows-using portion of our community, and if done right, I think the majority of us would recommend that our Windows users switch to it." http://pidgin.im/pipermail/devel/2013-March/011192.html
10:16:55 <flo-retina> I wonder if someone should go point out that Instantbird looks much more native than Pidgin on Windows
10:17:03 <flo-retina> (it still looks like crap though :()
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10:18:04 <clokep> flo-retina: I had thought of that to...
10:18:30 <clokep> It isn't technically a native client though. ;)
10:18:32 <flo-retina> however, I don't want Ib to support by default half the things that guy lists
10:18:49 <flo-retina> and I'm not fully convinced that guy will go anywhere
10:19:18 <flo-retina> if he wants a libpurple usable from MSVC, using ours would be a sane idea though
10:19:34 <flo-retina> all statically linked into a single .dll file, and with a decent .lib file he could use
10:20:03 <flo-retina> (he would need to compile himself to have the .lib of course :P)
10:23:13 <clokep> Sounds like he got it to compile already in MSVC.
10:25:50 <flo-retina> but not really to work
10:26:53 <flo-retina> "all I got is a single libpurple.dll compiled under MSVS Express 2012. I will have to look into the documentation to find out whether I need all the other dll's included with Pidgin and figure out how to compile them. "
10:27:06 <flo-retina> he may need to compile glib and libxml2, and the prpls :)
10:35:09 <clokep> Ah. I took that to mean he compiled everything, yeah.
10:35:14 <clokep> We should probably respond. ;)
10:36:37 <flo-retina> clokep: btw, remember http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/130326#m304?
10:36:53 <flo-retina> someone started suggesting his favorite IRC client as an alternative, without a really good reason
10:37:01 <clokep> flo-retina: Of course. :)
10:37:10 <clokep> What was his favorite?
10:37:19 <flo-retina> and myk replied " Instantbird <http://www.instantbird.com/> is a great IRC and IM client made by Mozillians that handles these messages automagically."
10:37:53 <clokep> :)
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10:40:40 <flo-retina> clokep: "Not to criticize your choice in tools, but it is my impression that Adium isn't a particularly fantastic IRC client -- it's much more targeted to instant messages which is not the same. If you want to try a dedicated IRC client, I'd suggest LimeChat. I am sure many others on yammer will be able to recommend their particular IRC clients as well."
10:40:50 <flo-retina> then someone else "Colloquy is really good since you're on a Mac."
10:41:03 <flo-retina> and the original poster replied "Nice tanks for the client side advice. I will try them. Adium is not that great. It was what came with my laptop when I started."
10:41:15 <clokep> I know a bunch of people use LimeChat, but I've never looked at it.
10:41:50 <flo-retina> people seem to suggest either LimeChat or Textual (which seems to cost $5.99)
10:42:33 <clokep> :(
10:42:43 <clokep> (They'll probably suggest setting up bouncers too. :))
10:43:19 <flo-retina> I think I need to ping again the Desktop people to get Instantbird installed by default instead of Adium
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10:45:26 <clokep> Yeah I was wondering if that ever went anywhere...but wasn't sure if you had said that here or in a PM. :)
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10:49:45 * aleth is planning to write a blog post in the next few days now the Latex addon is public
10:50:12 <clokep> :) For blog.instantbird.org or your own?
10:50:23 <aleth> oh, blog.instantbird
10:50:35 <aleth> I don't have one.
10:51:28 <clokep> Probably a good life deciison. ;)
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10:51:53 <aleth> clokep: enough things to feel guilty about not keeping up to date ;)
10:52:00 <clokep> Exactly.
10:52:49 <clokep> flo-retina: A sticker you'll enjoy that I got as a gift from someone at pycon. ;) sdrv.ms/11Q0jkj
10:53:31 <flo-retina> I should probably motivate myself to have a blog in English that could be syndicated to planet
10:53:35 <clokep> Bah...that was linked on the twitter page...
10:53:55 <aleth> flo-retina: Hmm yes, the syndication to planet would be a good reason :D
10:54:06 <flo-retina> clokep: nice sticker. I assume you put it immediately on your laptop? :)
10:54:13 <aleth> Maybe I'll write a blog post for clokep's blog ;)
10:54:35 <clokep> flo-retina: Not quite. :P (I don't actually put any stickers on my laptops...) Plus...Persona...know one 'll know what that is. :P
10:54:47 <flo-retina> aleth: they removed the instantbird blog to reduce the noise, so I think that's a good reason to syndicate a blog for each of {clokep,Mic,aleth,me} and announce each instantbird release on all of them :P
10:55:42 <flo-retina> (and I'm not completely kidding. Stupid actions sometimes deserve stupid reactions :-P)
10:56:00 <aleth> clokep: well, in the UK people might remember https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=persona+contraception
10:56:08 <flo-retina> clokep: the only sticker I have on my laptop is a "Mozilla" one (+ the MoCo asset tag under it, but that doesn't really count)
10:57:10 * aleth just finds it remarkable that Persona still doesn't work with the FF password manager
10:57:27 <Mic> aleth: ah, so that's not just me? :)
10:58:14 <aleth> Mic: of course there's also the Ingmar Bergman film about issues with identity :)
10:58:45 <flo-retina> aleth: do you mean using Persona kills baby? :-o
10:58:49 <aleth> Mic: I filed the bug ages ago, and it was known, but they don't seem in a hurry to fix it
10:58:51 <flo-retina> *babies
10:59:27 <Mic> I might be wrong but isn't Persona this new mobile OS made by Mozilla? ;)
10:59:32 <flo-retina> aleth: "they don't seem in a hurry". No need to specify "to fix it" ;)
10:59:35 <clokep> flo-retina: We're not allowed to put stickers on our work computers. :(: But I would otherwise.
10:59:47 <flo-retina> clokep: I assumed you also have non-work computers
11:00:01 <Mic> I've only seen two cool stickers on laptops so far.
11:01:34 <Mic> Both of them on Mac notebooks: Snow White holding the Apple-apple and Iron Man having the Apple in the center of his chest
11:02:38 <flo-retina> Mic: this is how my macbook looks: http://i1.minus.com/ibfFclijgDvcG4.jpg
11:03:50 <Mic> Unobtrusive and clear, I like that :)
11:04:25 <flo-retina> Mic: I dislike laptops covered with stickers that don't even look good.
11:04:31 <Mic> http://www.onemoregadget.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/snowwhite_macbook_sticker.jpg
11:04:31 <Mic> http://www.cheapiphoneipad.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/l/il_fullxfull.326367178.jpg
11:05:18 <clokep> Mic: I've seen those before, both neat.
11:05:45 <Mic> flo-retina: yes, like anything it needs to be done well ;)
11:06:25 <aleth> flo-retina: It's nice that sticker has no visible background
11:06:43 <clokep> flo-retina: Yes, I have three...but I like my lenovos to be matte black. ;)
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11:50:18 <flo-retina> I wonder what IRC client causes people to reply in private messages with "<nick>: " at the beginning of the message
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11:54:56 <instantbot> New Core - General bug 1911 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
11:54:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1911 tri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, The help command should trim its argument
11:55:02 <clokep_work> Mic: My session restore has really not been working well. :-/
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11:55:54 <clokep_work> Patch coming up? :P
11:55:58 <flo-retina> nope
11:56:14 <flo-retina> but I still wonder what the /version command actually does.
11:56:15 <clokep_work> What client was it?
11:56:26 <clokep_work> It queries a remote client/s version/
11:56:35 <clokep_work> s_n/_n._
11:56:41 <flo-retina> typing "/version clokep" gives absolutely no feedback
11:56:50 <clokep_work> flo-retina: It opens a new tab.
11:56:54 <clokep_work> You've already filed a bug about disliking that.
11:56:57 <flo-retina> clokep_work: with nothing in it
11:57:15 <flo-retina> but I hadn't noticed you had left before I typed that command :-S
11:57:19 <clokep_work> flo-retina: It has a system message in it saying "7:56:44 AM - flo-retina is using "Instantbird 1.4a1pre"."
11:57:26 <clokep_work> Well then it won't show anything. ;)
11:57:37 <flo-retina> clokep_work: could at least show an error message ;)
11:58:54 <flo-retina> clokep_work: the client was "LimeChat for Mac 2.33".
12:03:03 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Sure, we'd probably have to add a setTimeout call.
12:03:38 <flo-retina> the server doesn't reply at all when the user isn't logged in?
12:03:59 <flo-retina> (I don't see why we would open an empty tab if we haven't received a reply yet)
12:05:05 <clokep_work> It might give us an error that the user is unreachable.
12:07:09 <clokep_work> I'm not saying it isn't possible, just that it isn't trivial.
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12:12:58 <clokep_work> flo-retina: And unfortunately the current behavior doesn't really bother me...so it'll be a bit hard to wrangle a patch out of me. ;)
12:19:58 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Is http://pastebin.instantbird.com/164705 reasonable to reply to that Pidgin chain?
12:21:07 <aleth> clokep_work: Most of the features he wants... I'm not sure we'd want though. Animated everything for starters ;)
12:25:04 <clokep_work> aleth: Yeah.
12:25:06 <clokep_work> I know.
12:25:10 <clokep_work> That's what extensions are for. :P
12:26:51 <aleth> clokep_work: Right, so maybe add something along the lines of "Many of the things you are hoping to create could be implemented as add-ons, which is much simpler than rewriting a whole client"
12:26:53 <aleth> ?
12:27:43 <aleth> Depending on what you are hoping to say of course ;)
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12:31:44 <clokep_work> aleth: Mostly was just pointing out that we've already compiled it for MSVC.
12:31:52 <clokep_work> And that we have a non-sucky Windows GUI.
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12:45:00 <flo-retina> I'm not completely sure of what "it doesn't actually use a native UI on Windows" means
12:45:22 <flo-retina> we are not writing it using the Windows API, but the mozilla platform uses these API, doesn't it?
12:45:50 <flo-retina> clokep_work: also, you don't mention we build with MSVC, isn't that the point you wanted to make?
12:45:53 <clokep_work> It might, I don't know what XUL does.
12:46:48 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Good point.
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13:57:35 <flo-retina> clokep_work: looks like he ignored most of what you said. He seems to like struggling with compiling on Windows :).
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14:15:53 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Yeah, pretty much.
14:16:07 <clokep_work> Not unexpected. :)
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14:18:55 <flo-retina> he probably wants an animated complication :)
14:19:01 <flo-retina> err, I meant compilation
14:20:30 <aleth> "animated complication", that's nice :D
14:20:56 <flo-retina> aleth: it's possibly true too ;)
14:39:10 <aleth> flo-retina: Could the crash ger v reported be related to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=783765 ?
14:40:53 <flo-retina> it's marked as fixed for moz17 (has he tried a nightly? I don't fully remember what was tried yesterday :-S)
14:41:10 <flo-retina> iirc he said the xul popups were used for Instantbird and libnotify for Tb
14:41:11 <aleth> Yes, it seems the bug is gone with the nightly. Just trying to identify the cause
14:41:31 <aleth> Right, IB always uses XUL popups
14:42:10 <aleth> Nevertheless...
14:44:05 <aleth> Can't find anything else that looks related.
14:44:55 <flo-retina> it may still touch libnotify to determine it doesn't support the features it wants
14:45:02 <flo-retina> (like clickable notifications)
14:50:08 <aleth> It's obscure anyway as libnotify doesn't seem to be in ger v's list of updated packages (unless it's bundled in somehow on ubuntu)
14:51:01 <aleth> Plenty of updates to gtk though.
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15:35:16 <flo-retina> clokep_work: another example of ERROR we get from moznet:
15:35:16 <flo-retina> Error: Received unexpected ERROR response:
15:35:16 <flo-retina> Closing Link: flo-retina[ks368640.kimsufi.com] (Ping timeout)
15:38:43 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Yes. I'm not sure what your point is though. It's a text response. It's going to be different on every server.
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15:39:22 <flo-retina> my point is that moznet's messages seem consistent and like they could be parsed
15:39:32 <flo-retina> (maybe with a check on the servername before)
15:48:38 <clokep_work> Meh.
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16:23:45 <flo-retina> clokep_work: do we know what freenode ERROR messages look like?
16:24:15 <flo-retina> clokep_work: also it's a bit surprising to see that message in the Error Console. If we parsed it (in most cases), we wouldn't have to put an error in the error console for it
16:27:25 <clokep_work> flo-retina: We put it in the error console because we drop the message text from the server.
16:30:10 <flo-retina> isn't this in agreement with what I just said? :)
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16:42:22 <clokep_work> No?
16:42:23 <clokep_work> :-S
16:45:19 <flo-retina> "If we parsed it (in most cases), we wouldn't have to put an error in the error console for it"
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16:46:58 <clokep_work> Yes...but I'm in disagreement that we should parse it.
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18:09:01 <Mic> clokep_work: I should spend some time on it, yes :( @http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/130328#m137
18:09:25 <Mic> What problems did you see?
18:10:01 <Mic> Being offline after launch is known and also annoying me very much...
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18:11:18 <Mic> I think there's a condition under which all joined MUCs from the session are forgotten too :(
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18:13:13 <clokep_work> Mic: Mostly that.
18:13:21 <clokep_work> (The being offline when launching.)
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18:21:36 <Mic> clokep_work: any other wishes?
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18:27:00 <clokep_work> Mic: Integration by default? :)
18:28:44 <Mic> :)
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18:37:24 <clokep_work> Hopefully we can get it in at some point!
18:40:22 <Mic> I think I just had an idea how I can restore conversation windows :)
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18:55:18 <clokep_work> aleth: You having weird internet issues?
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18:56:26 <aleth> clokep_work: uh, looks like
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19:34:28 <clokep_work> Mic: How so?
19:34:36 <clokep_work> Isn't that hard w/ the way windows are generated?
19:34:48 <Mic> Yes, *but* ... ;)
19:35:17 <Mic> imWindows.jsm is a module, not a component. I can import it and change it as I like :)
19:35:53 <clokep_work> Ah-ha.
19:36:16 <Mic> bbl
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21:22:08 <leandro> hi Mic
21:22:44 <Mic> Hi
21:23:04 <leandro> remember the icons issue? they are all CreativeCommons
21:23:30 <leandro> is that OK with MPL?
21:23:46 <Mic> There's different CC licences from what I know.
21:23:52 <Mic> Do you know which one it is?
21:24:27 <leandro> yes
21:25:06 <leandro> Attribution 3.0 Unported 
21:25:49 <leandro> well, its attirbution but i dont know the name of the author :D
21:31:38 <Mic> Hmm :(
21:38:16 <Mic> I don't think I can give you decent advice here. :(
21:39:43 <Mic> I guess what I'd do is tell that the author isn't known to you and that you are not the author and put a link to this license somewhere: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
21:40:43 <Mic> I'm not sure if that's acceptable  (on the other hand I'm not sure if anyone really cares either)
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21:42:19 <leandro> perhaps it hasn't so much importance
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22:32:31 <clokep> Mic: http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/license-policy.html might be good
22:38:56 <Mic> Thanks!
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