#instantbird log on 03 10 2013

All times are UTC.

00:08:45 --> tonyolivero has joined #instantbird
00:11:14 <tonyolivero> Hello Instantbird experts. I've got a question about merging multiple contacts. I understand from the docs that I can cclick/drag a contact onto another contact and it will merge them (same person, different protocol). However, unfortunately I cannot do a click/drag with my screen reader (something where none of the Mozilla software supports the mouse emmulation; not really sure on the...
00:11:16 <tonyolivero> ...detailt). Can I just edit the blist.sqlite file and manally add the association?
00:15:22 <Mic> Hi
00:15:52 <tonyolivero> Hi Mic
00:16:13 --> mconley has joined #instantbird
00:16:35 <Mic> tonyolivero: let me look something up. I've heard about this problem before.
00:17:45 <instantbot> benediktp@ymail.com requested feedback from florian@instantbi rd.org for attachment 2264 on bug 260.
00:17:47 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=260 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Pasting in the conversation input box doesn't send typing notifications
00:20:08 <Mic> tonyolivero: what screenreader are you using btw?
00:20:45 <tonyolivero> Mic, I've tried it with both JAWS and NVDA.
00:21:04 <tonyolivero> It's admittedly possible I just don't know how to do the operation with NVDA correctly
00:22:01 <Mic> Ah, OK. From what I remember Instantbird works better with NVDA. A guy from NVDA dev team filed bugs with us and we fixed them to improve support...
00:25:40 <tonyolivero> Mic, thanks. Other than this one issue, it's worked well with JAWS, but I'll ask a friend about doing this with NVDA. I thought I did it according to their directions, but I may have missed a step.
00:26:04 <Mic> I'm still looking for the thing I remember.
00:26:38 <Mic> It's in our bugtracker if I'm not mistaken. A discussion between flo (lead developer) and a screenreader user about combining contacts.
00:28:09 <Mic> Actually it worked better with his screenreader because we fail to scroll the contact list if the contact to drop on is offscreen.
00:29:14 <Mic> His screenreader allowed him to 'mark' the contact he'd like to drag instead of actually dragging it. He then selected another contact and had a command to drop it there.
00:29:23 <Mic> I'm not sure if that makes sense to you :(
00:31:07 <tonyolivero> Makes total sense. That's what I had tried, but I'll give it another go. sometimes they're just weird :)
00:32:24 <tonyolivero> and of course it works today
00:32:32 <Mic> :)
00:32:38 <tonyolivero> Thanks.
00:32:46 <Mic> You're welcome!
00:33:20 <Mic> Maybe I should have shared right away what I remembered instead of trying to find the discussion though ... ;)
00:34:56 <-- mconley has quit (Input/output error)
00:38:57 <Mic> tonyolivero: if you've got other questions just ask! If you've discovered bugs or have ideas how we could improve IB, either tell us here, or even better: file a bug at http://bugzilla.instantbird.org
00:39:21 <Mic> Enhancement requests or ideas also belong there, not just problems :)
00:39:28 <tonyolivero> Thanks. I definitely will. I'm still playing with this, because it seems like the vertical position of the list/contact plays a role. When I did it with someone who's names both started with a K, it worked, but when I did it with an R contact, the Java icon in my system tray got clicked instead. 
00:39:43 <tonyolivero> Awesome. I really do like the program.
00:43:44 <Mic> I'm located in Europe and it's pretty late here already, so: good night!
00:44:37 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: No time to waste, let's go!)
00:48:34 <-- tonyolivero has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90-rdmsoft [XULRunner 18.0.2/20130201065344])
01:11:13 --> mconley has joined #instantbird
01:17:30 <-- Kaishi has quit (Quit: Kaishi)
01:17:38 --> rosonline has joined #instantbird
01:22:25 <-- mconley has quit (Ping timeout)
01:23:19 --> mconley has joined #instantbird
01:37:53 <-- mconley has quit (Ping timeout)
01:47:48 --> mconley has joined #instantbird
01:47:58 <-- mconley has quit (Input/output error)
02:18:48 --> deOmega1 has joined #instantbird
02:19:20 <deOmega1> hello.  So i heard that one can have tabs on the bottom using a particular command :)
02:20:25 <deOmega1> "tabbox { -moz-box-direction: reverse; }"  or "#conversations > tabbox { -moz-box-direction: reverse; }"  is that right?
02:20:32 <deOmega1> (I tried but no luck
02:20:51 <-- rosonline has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
02:24:38 <deOmega1> i created  userchrome.css in appdata/roaming/instantbird/profile/chrome and entered either of the above, with and without the quotations, but no luck
02:25:12 <-- deOmega1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
02:25:17 --> deOmega1 has joined #instantbird
02:30:10 <-- deOmega1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
02:30:14 --> deOmega1 has joined #instantbird
02:30:44 <-- deOmega1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
02:30:50 --> deOmega1 has joined #instantbird
02:34:17 <-- deOmega1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
02:34:23 --> deOmega1 has joined #instantbird
02:42:00 <-- deOmega1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
02:42:07 --> deOmega1 has joined #instantbird
02:48:26 <deOmega1> and once i can get this to work.. is there a way to  use said operation to remove the status bar in the conversation window?
02:51:48 <-- deOmega1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
02:51:54 --> deOmega1 has joined #instantbird
02:52:35 <-- deOmega1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
02:52:40 --> deOmega1 has joined #instantbird
03:16:11 <-- deOmega1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
03:17:10 --> mconley has joined #instantbird
03:36:35 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird
03:41:39 <instant-buildbot> build #803 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/803
03:53:01 --> clokep has joined #instantbird
03:53:01 * ChanServ sets mode +o clokep 
04:13:50 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.4a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
04:14:08 --> Mook has joined #instantbird
04:35:41 <instant-buildbot> build #800 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/800
04:40:30 <-- mconley has quit (Input/output error)
05:43:09 <-- Optimizer has quit (Ping timeout)
05:46:31 --> Optimizer has joined #instantbird
05:48:27 <instant-buildbot> build #894 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/894
06:24:21 --> jeffgman has joined #instantbird
06:26:12 <-- jeffgman has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
07:06:20 <-- EionRobb has quit (Ping timeout)
07:07:39 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird
07:15:02 --> Kaishi has joined #instantbird
07:18:11 --> jb has joined #instantbird
07:22:40 <-- Mook has quit (Input/output error)
07:30:39 <-- MMN-o has quit (Client exited)
07:46:16 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout)
07:49:22 --> jb has joined #instantbird
07:59:10 <-- EionRobb has quit (Connection reset by peer)
08:01:17 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird
08:08:36 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout)
09:10:35 --> Mic has joined #instantbird
09:10:35 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 
09:15:42 --> Even has joined #instantbird
09:15:42 * ChanServ sets mode +o Even 
09:32:34 <-- EionRobb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
09:58:51 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: No time to waste, let's go!)
09:59:18 --> Mic has joined #instantbird
09:59:18 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 
10:07:26 --> MMN-o has joined #instantbird
10:08:56 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: No time to waste, let's go!)
10:09:13 --> Mic has joined #instantbird
10:09:13 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 
10:11:37 --> MMN-o_ has joined #instantbird
10:13:38 <-- MMN-o_ has quit (Quit: leaving)
10:20:06 <Mic> meh: "Nick deOmega isn't registered." :(
10:20:37 <Mic> I wanted to send him a memo with a link to a pastebin.
10:21:19 <Mic> Maybe someone could send him this if I miss him next time he's here: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/154998 ?
10:21:21 --> dew has joined #instantbird
10:21:42 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: No time to waste, let's go!)
10:21:52 --> Mic has joined #instantbird
10:21:53 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 
11:34:55 --> MMN-o_ has joined #instantbird
11:35:02 <-- MMN-o_ has quit (Quit: MMN-o_)
11:35:23 --> rosonline has joined #instantbird
11:35:38 --> MMN-o_ has joined #instantbird
11:35:41 <-- MMN-o_ has quit (Quit: MMN-o_)
11:46:36 --> flo-retina has joined #instantbird
11:46:36 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo-retina flo-retina 
11:46:49 <flo-retina> Mic: maybe you want to email deOmega?
11:47:08 <flo-retina> (you can likely find his email in any bug he filed, and if not I can likely find it in my emails)
11:47:32 <flo-retina> Mic: btw, I suspect a possible cause for things not working when he tried would be a conflict with the Vertical Tabs add-on that iirc he uses
11:49:21 --> igorko has joined #instantbird
12:05:03 <-- rosonline has quit (Ping timeout)
12:07:43 <Mic> I emailed him. Thanks for pointing out that he uses "Vertical Tabs"!
12:10:47 <flo-retina> np
12:11:25 <-- Tonnes has quit (Connection reset by peer)
12:18:02 --> clokep has joined #instantbird
12:18:02 * ChanServ sets mode +o clokep 
12:24:05 <clokep> flo-retina: How was your car show?
12:24:28 <flo-retina> great, and I'm tired ;)
12:24:32 <flo-retina> photos are at http://queze.net/goinfre/mamie/reims2013/
12:25:32 <clokep> Lots of photos!
12:29:24 <Mic> clokep, flo-retina: would someone be so nice to add mozbug 779738 to block the IB tracking bug? (See: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=779738#c15)
12:29:58 <clokep> Mic: Didn't you just do that for another bug? :-S Do you not have editbugs?
12:30:13 <Mic> I can do that for bugs I filed myself but not on others.
12:30:26 <clokep> Ah, I see.
12:30:30 <Mic> I'm already looking up the cases in which I asked someone to do that.
12:30:51 <clokep> Well it's blocking it now.
12:31:11 <Mic> I should definitely have asked that often enough now to be able to ask Gerv 
12:31:53 <clokep> :)
12:33:01 <-- igorko has quit (Connection reset by peer)
12:33:33 --> igorko has joined #instantbird
12:42:59 <flo-retina> Mic: yeah, just ask Gerv for editbugs
12:43:25 <-- Optimizer has quit (Ping timeout)
12:48:13 <-- FireFly_TB has quit (Quit: FireFly_TB)
12:49:50 --> Optimizer has joined #instantbird
13:07:03 <-- igorko has quit (Client exited)
13:08:30 --> deOmega1 has joined #instantbird
13:08:56 <-- deOmega1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
13:09:01 --> deOmega1 has joined #instantbird
13:09:47 <clokep> deOmega1: I think Mic has a pastebin for you.
13:10:55 <deOmega1> hi clokep.  good morning
13:11:02 <Mic> Hi
13:11:04 <clokep> Good morning.
13:11:12 <deOmega1> Yes.. i am still not able to get it to work though..  
13:11:31 <deOmega1> hmm
13:11:56 <deOmega1> I followed your instructions, but in an effort to clarify, let me detail my steps
13:12:03 <Mic> Sure
13:12:46 <deOmega1> actually, will  post some images as well
13:13:20 <deOmega1> but i followed the instructions and arrived in the roaming/instantbird/profiles
13:13:34 <deOmega1> there was no chrome folder there so i created a folder and named it chrome
13:13:46 <clokep> deOmega1: Did you open your actual profile?
13:14:06 <clokep> Usually it's a bunch of letters sometimes followed by ".default"
13:14:26 <deOmega1> yes..  in the windows address bar.. it shows my name/appdata/roaming/instantbird/profiles/chrome
13:14:57 <clokep> Mine shows clokep/AppData/Roaming/Instantbird/profiles/123456.default/chrome
13:15:24 <deOmega1> ohhhhhhhhhh.   man,  that is it
13:15:46 <deOmega1> i did not create it in teh subflder in chrome
13:15:50 <deOmega1> i mean in profiles
13:15:52 <deOmega1> let me check again
13:16:02 <clokep> Yeah, profiles is just a list of profiles, you have to create it in an individual profile.
13:16:59 <deOmega1> arrrrgh.  I feel so stupid as i have done this before for firefox years ago.
13:17:06 <deOmega1> let me verify now that it is working
13:17:27 <deOmega1> man, i even went through  firefox web site on how to do this and i stil overlooked that
13:17:28 <clokep> Not a problem. :)
13:17:46 <-- deOmega1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
13:17:50 --> deOmega1 has joined #instantbird
13:18:02 <deOmega1> Oh mommie
13:18:07 <deOmega1> this is beautiful
13:18:08 <Mic> Thanks for helping out, clokep
13:18:23 <deOmega1> This is soo beutiful
13:18:31 <Mic> Maybe I was not clear enough with the hints...
13:18:34 <clokep> I figured that was the issue from reading the logs last night. ;)
13:18:43 <clokep> deOmega1: What did you apply?
13:18:56 <clokep> And there should be a way to remove the statusbar, yes.
13:19:10 <deOmega1> tabs on the bottom and n statusbar
13:19:17 <deOmega1> and no statusbar
13:19:22 <Mic> clokep: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/154998
13:19:38 <Mic> deOmega1: that's what you used, most likely?
13:19:49 <deOmega1> Mic, you were very clear and amazingly helpful.. i just read what i wanted to read
13:19:56 <deOmega1> I used exactly what you gave me mic
13:19:57 <deOmega1> yep
13:20:50 --> aleth has joined #instantbird
13:20:51 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 
13:20:52 <Mic> Have fun! :)
13:20:52 <deOmega1> I never thought of this before, but it makes sense to have name next to teh text entry box
13:21:25 <deOmega1> It seems almost impossible in that case to type to the wrong person.
13:21:58 --> gerard-majax__ has joined #instantbird
13:22:03 * Mic wants to have something like "Type your message for /deOmega/ here and press Enter to send it" as empty text for the input box.
13:22:22 <-- gerard-majax_ has quit (Connection reset by peer)
13:22:27 <Mic> At least to see if it's helpful or annoying...
13:22:27 <clokep> Mic: That should be pretty easy, no?
13:22:31 <Mic> yep!
13:22:39 <Mic> I even think we have a bug filed for this already.
13:23:03 <Mic> All we need to do is setting the emptytextt/placeholder when initializing things if I'm not mistaken
13:23:06 <deOmega1> ohh, so in the text entry area.. instead of it being blank.. it would have that text you just posted?
13:23:28 <Mic> Yes, and it would be grey, so you couldn't confuse it with something you wrote your self.
13:23:28 --> mikk_s has joined #instantbird
13:23:40 <deOmega1> probably grayed out.  
13:23:50 <deOmega1> that would be nice man.  it just makes sense
13:24:11 <deOmega1> I will say though that i have to train my mind with regards to which tab is teh active tab
13:24:15 <clokep> Patch coming up? ;)
13:24:43 <-- mikk_s has quit (Client exited)
13:24:44 <Mic> clokep: I'd rather do it with an add-on first and if we like it, we can include it.
13:25:07 <clokep> Mic: Fair enough.
13:25:24 <deOmega1> man guys.  This imo is simply brilliant.  And the suggestion about teh grayed out text.. in italics, woudl be  awesome too
13:26:54 --> mpmc has joined #instantbird
13:27:46 <deOmega1> In teh text also..  deOmega would be the largest text..right?
13:30:44 <Mic> No, the placeholder text has just one style.
13:31:34 <deOmega1> ok.  was just trying to figure a way for the name to standout
13:32:43 <aleth> deOmega1: You could add something to userchrome.css that makes the current tab stand out more (e.g. a different colour or bold tab text)
13:33:09 <aleth> The problem you're having is not the one Mic is fixing I think ;)
13:33:29 <aleth> Though it might overlap a bit.
13:34:25 <clokep> aleth: I agree w/ your comment about that @ bug I think.
13:34:45 <deOmega1> ah. Bold text in the tab would be great
13:35:13 <deOmega1> i actually have bold text for the active tabs in fiorefox
13:35:45 <deOmega1> but may i impose and ask how o one may go about doing teh text.  I think if i see the string for teh text i can figure out others
13:35:57 <deOmega1> the string for teh bold text in userchrome
13:36:40 <deOmega1> this is what it currently looks like..  http://i50.tinypic.com/fmiccg.jpg
13:36:51 <deOmega1> I am sure you guys knew, but still wanted to share just in case
13:38:56 <-- mpmc has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.4a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
13:39:01 --> mpmc has joined #instantbird
13:39:11 <aleth> deOmega1: tab[selected]: {font-weight:bold;}
13:39:55 <deOmega1> ok, thanks a lot.  I think i can do a lot with that
13:40:08 <Mic> The colon is too much if you want to c/p into userChrome.css right away
13:40:25 <Mic> i.e. the one after [selected] 
13:40:48 <aleth> Oh right, sorry
13:41:30 <Mic> deOmega1: that's like the placeholder text would look like: http://i.imgur.com/Ru9HEkY.png
13:42:18 <deOmega1> I like that!
13:42:56 <deOmega1> what it also does imo as silly as it may sound.. it also indicates where to type your text :)
13:43:50 <Mic> hmm, "adding changesets" for twenty minutes already. m-c is a big beast and this is a slow computer :(
13:44:36 <deOmega1> You know...  i communicate with this older gentleman (he is 77) and he used to call me, saying he wanted to send me a message but dunno where to type it. (I think he was using googletalk at the time)
13:45:38 <-- deltafalcon has quit (Connection reset by peer)
13:46:48 <flo-retina> Mic: I think that message would be much more useful if the name of the conversation was the first word (ie the only one people will actually read)
13:46:51 <clokep> Mic: You're cloning m-c?
13:47:00 <clokep> I always bootstrap it with an hg bundle.
13:47:07 <flo-retina> I have hard time thinking of a wording that would put the name as the first word though :(
13:47:46 <deOmega1> flo-retina: hi flo.  makes sense
13:47:50 <aleth> Mic: If we had that in the core I think I would prefer if it was a feature that was active on new profiles for the first n runs and then went away again
13:48:04 <flo-retina> Mic: and I think that placeholder text should be combined with the status reminder add-on, so that we could for example say "you are currently unavailable (<status message>), you may want to set your status to available before sending <conv name> a message."
13:48:52 <flo-retina> aleth: the placeholder is both for discoverability of where to type, and to remind you who you are talking to
13:49:04 <aleth> flo-retina: it is also visual noise.
13:49:39 <aleth> Maybe if it was in a tooltip?
13:49:49 <Mic> clokep: that is already from an hg bundle.
13:49:50 <flo-retina> "%S will receive the messages you send from here." is the best wording putting the name at the beginning that I can think of.
13:49:58 <aleth> Or appeared on hover over the empty inputbox?
13:51:04 <flo-retina> tooltips aren't helpful for "remind you who you are typing to"
13:51:27 <flo-retina> aleth: I do see your point about the visual noise
13:51:44 <-- deOmega1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
13:51:48 --> deOmega1 has joined #instantbird
13:51:50 <flo-retina> I guess we should try it in an add-on for a few weeks before deciding if the visual noise makes this a regression, or if it's really an improvement
13:52:33 <aleth> flo-retina: I don't like the idea of a tooltip either. Maybe on hover would work
13:52:43 <aleth> I suspect though that any message like that, because it is noisy, may just get ignored by the user after a while. It's "grey stuff that goes away when I type"
13:53:22 <aleth> So for the message text, I would suggest something super short ("Talk to %s")
13:53:24 <deOmega1> aleth: the bold string works great!  thank you.
13:53:24 <flo-retina> aleth: on hover doesn't help people who don't use a mouse ;)
13:53:51 <flo-retina> aleth: I very rarely hover the textbox before I start typing, as selecting a tab focuses the input box automatically
13:54:30 <aleth> I was thinking of hovering as something a new user would do who wasn't sure what to do ;)
13:54:41 <flo-retina> aleth: the message will definitely be ignored after a short while, that's why I suggested putting the name as the very first word (the word that's the least likely to be completely ignored)
13:54:58 <flo-retina> aleth: I'm not trying to address new users
13:55:08 <flo-retina> aleth: the goal is to avoid sending a message to the wrong person
13:55:43 <-- deOmega1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
13:55:58 --> deOmega1 has joined #instantbird
13:55:59 <flo-retina> (for new users, any text would work, and we could stop showing it after a message has been sent)
13:56:29 <aleth> flo-retina: If that's the goal, there are better ways I think. Avoid all text and just have the name after an arrow. And experiment with the placement in the inputbox.
13:56:49 <aleth> You could have something more verbose the first time, like you suggest
13:57:33 <aleth> flo-retina: some great cars on those pictures! looks like it was a big show...
13:57:38 * aleth likes the fire engine
13:57:40 <flo-retina> aleth: yes, we could make the wording more verbose the first time
13:58:28 <deOmega1> I understand aleth's point indeed as it crossed my mind if it would be a nag to the eyes after awhile.. but something like that is really a very good idea.
13:58:30 <aleth> flo-retina: If the first time string includes the arrow before the destination, the user will pick up on what it's supposed to mean.
13:59:33 <aleth> (by arrow I mean something like http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/25b6/index.htm)
13:59:54 <flo-retina> aleth: yes it was big. Less crowded than last year, but the announced weather was poor, so lots of people probably didn't go because of that. The weather was good though :) (except while driving during the morning, but with a modern car that doesn't matter). Today it's snowy there though.
13:59:59 <aleth> or maybe something less heavy...
14:00:29 <aleth> What make is this one (also pretty cool)? http://queze.net/goinfre/mamie/reims2013/IMG_0022.jpg
14:01:14 <flo-retina> aleth: I'm afraid just showing the name of the contact there is likely to confuse anybody who hadn't actually read the full message the first time
14:01:43 <aleth> flo-retina: Right, you'd have to show the full message a couple of times, and include the symbol.
14:01:57 <flo-retina> aleth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panhard
14:02:30 <flo-retina> could show the full message on hover (someone confused is likely to point the mouse cursor at what's confusing), but I think we are now over complicating things :)
14:03:11 <aleth> flo-retina: Definitely sounds like experimenting in an add-on is a good idea :)
14:03:34 <flo-retina> aleth: there are several panhard models that I really like. Probably the non-Citroën old cars I'm the most likely to ever buy.
14:03:41 <Mic> You can proceed to bikeshedding over the arrow shpae now ;)
14:04:06 <Mic> Single, double, triple arrow? Rather an arrow or a triangle shape? Lots to be discussed :P
14:04:13 <clokep> Personally I don't really see how that text will be annoying but...
14:04:20 <flo-retina> (although Panhard was bought by Citroën, and the last Panhard cars were designed by the same engineers that designed the Ami 6, so... whether they are really non-Citroën cars is debatable)
14:04:21 <aleth> Mic: you forget about the direction ;)
14:04:35 <flo-retina> Mic: what about the color of the arrow?
14:04:50 <flo-retina> clokep: "visual noise"
14:05:03 <clokep> flo-retina: I don't know if I agree.
14:05:04 <aleth> flo-retina: At first I thought Citroen actually before I looked more closely :)
14:05:40 <flo-retina> clokep: and I'm not sure I agree until I actually try it. Because if any text that doesn't change is visual noise, then displaying the topic at the top of chat rooms is definitely visual noise
14:06:08 <flo-retina> aleth: the one on the picture pre-dates the Citroën acquisition
14:06:38 <flo-retina> aleth: it's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Panhard_24.jpg that's been designed by the Citroën engineers
14:07:03 <aleth> flo-retina: I don't know enough about Citroen design through the ages anyway to put any weight on that association ;)
14:07:15 <flo-retina> aleth: what I like about Panhard cars is that it really looks like there's a facial expression
14:07:44 <-- mpmc has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.4a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
14:09:03 <aleth> clokep: I'm not certain about it either. Also for example an arrow may turn out to feel even more noisy. It's just a way to get rid of text...
14:10:29 <Mic> "Enter a message for <...>" ?
14:10:41 <Mic> It's short and the name would be at one end of it?
14:10:58 <deOmega1> "abc is recipient"
14:11:45 <aleth> flo-retina: Browsing the gallery on wikipedia, I totally see what you mean :)
14:12:25 <flo-retina> Mic: I'll never look at the end of the string if the beginning looks the same
14:18:06 <deOmega1> how about  simply  Mic is recipient?
14:18:47 <deOmega1> or mic will receive this message
14:22:58 <deOmega1> gonna get ready for church.  have a great day all.
14:25:54 <Mic> Have a nice day!
14:30:02 <-- deOmega1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
14:33:49 --> Tonnes has joined #instantbird
14:47:56 --> rosonline has joined #instantbird
14:48:11 <-- rosonline has quit (Client exited)
14:48:14 --> rosonline has joined #instantbird
15:35:52 <-- Kaishi has quit (Quit: Kaishi)
16:18:29 <-- Optimizer has quit (Ping timeout)
16:21:21 --> Optimizer has joined #instantbird
16:27:26 --> Mnyromyr has joined #instantbird
16:28:48 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Au revoir)
16:34:47 <Mic> clokep: how did the "recomputeWrappers"-"typo" happen in bug 677?
16:34:50 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=677 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Reopen Twitter stream when "track" preference changes
16:35:22 <clokep> Mic: Why?
16:35:25 <Mic> Does your IDE (KomodoEdit?) know about methods of Components.utils and suggested the wrong one?
16:35:40 <clokep> I typed Com<tab>.ut<tab>.re<tab>
16:35:42 <clokep> Mic: Yes.
16:35:54 <Mic> I didn't know it could do that :)
16:36:02 <Mic> Maybe I should really give it a try.
16:36:09 <Mic> And a serious one too;)
16:37:43 <clokep> I could theoretically add the Instantbird interfaces too, but last time I asked Mook about that...it seemed like too much work. :P
16:40:51 <clokep> Mic: Komodo 8 is quite a bit better too, now that it's based on Mozilla 18. I have a macro that runs the current file as through the JS engine, which is useful.
16:41:46 <Mic> That means it's getting checked for syntax errors?
16:42:05 <clokep> It constantly checks for syntax errors.
16:42:10 <clokep> As you type.
16:42:35 <clokep> It means that I'm actually executing the Javascript and printing out results, a la scratchpad.
16:42:36 <clokep> But not as crappy.
16:57:43 --> mconley has joined #instantbird
16:58:39 <-- Even has quit (Input/output error)
17:39:53 <-- gerard-majax__ has quit (Ping timeout)
17:42:36 --> gerard-majax__ has joined #instantbird
17:45:04 <-- gerard-majax__ has quit (Connection reset by peer)
17:51:50 <-- rosonline has quit (Client exited)
17:51:53 --> gerard-majax__ has joined #instantbird
18:21:11 * Mic has hidden the conversation window status bar since deOmega was here and doesn't like the look of the window (yet).
18:36:20 <-- mconley has quit (Input/output error)
18:41:43 --> FireFly_TB has joined #instantbird
19:02:26 --> deOmega1 has joined #instantbird
19:03:13 <deOmega1> hi.. are these any redundancies in this:  I used it to change the font color of the active tab.
19:03:30 <deOmega1> tab[selected="true"] {
19:03:30 <deOmega1> background-color: rgb(222,218,210) !important;
19:03:30 <deOmega1> color: Green !important;
19:03:30 <deOmega1> } 
19:03:56 <deOmega1> *are there
19:03:56 <Mic> It looks valid :)
19:04:11 <deOmega1> thanks mic
19:04:16 * clokep still thinks we should do better styling for unread tabs...
19:04:21 <Mic> I'm not sure if the color names are case sensitive, so I'd try to use lower case letters there.
19:04:32 <Mic> clokep++
19:04:35 <Mic> Patch coming? :P
19:04:48 <clokep> Mic: No. I've had various stylings in my userChrome for a long time.
19:04:55 <clokep> But I've never liked them enough to put up a patch.
19:05:05 <deOmega1> ok, i will change it to lower.  it is working now though, but just in case
19:05:06 <clokep> Mic: I don't think CSS is case sensitive at all.
19:05:35 <Mic> I experimented with radial and other gradients, starting from what they did with pinned tabs in Fx.
19:05:49 <Mic> I was never satisfied with the results.
19:05:59 <Mic> It just didn't look good on large tabs.
19:06:42 <Mic> clokep: if I want to submit a patch on BMO, does it have to be against mozilla-inbound?
19:07:02 <clokep> Mic: It can be against m-c.
19:07:11 <clokep> Things land on both trees IIRC.
19:07:19 <deOmega1> man,  i have not had a reportable problem with typing in the wrong tab since the buddy icon was added.. but I really feel these will make sure guys like me have like zero  occurrences:).  There aejust some information you cannot type in teh wrong window 
19:07:59 <Mic> OK, that's great :)
19:08:12 <deOmega1> I should have done this userchrome long time ago.  Thanks
19:08:40 <deOmega1> btw Mic..  did you have the information for that text entry area you wanted me to play aroudn with?
19:08:50 <deOmega1> *want
19:09:28 <deOmega1> man,  the English language.. one grammatical error could lead to a catastrophe.. yet my typing gets worse.
19:10:33 <Mic> To get this grey text?
19:11:06 <deOmega1> yes. the grey text that indicates who one is typing to
19:11:07 <Mic> There's nothing you can do at the moment but I'll try to create an extension with customizable text soon.
19:11:20 <deOmega1> ok.  thanks
19:12:34 <Mic> clokep: do you think we should start using default parameters? They're available since Gecko 15 if I'm right.
19:12:54 <clokep> Mic: I think they're useful sometimes.
19:13:49 <deOmega1> well, i have been using vertical tabs all of this time.  What I have learned here today is a nice other option.  Again, thanks.  have a great day guys.  I need to visit more often.
19:14:38 <Mic> :)
19:14:44 <Mic> Have a nice day and be back soon :)
19:15:07 <Mic> I think we can try to find some cases were they could be used by by looking for "if (!a" with lxr
19:15:24 <Mic> I'm thinking of the pattern "if (!aParam) aParam=...;"
19:15:55 <-- deOmega1 has quit (Client exited)
19:16:01 --> deOmega1 has joined #instantbird
19:16:13 <-- deOmega1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
19:16:27 <clokep> Yeah...but sometimes we use that to check if things are null/empty as well as undefined.
19:17:39 <Mic> It would help us to find possible cases and look at them.
19:18:18 <clokep> I agree.
19:18:28 <clokep> I'd r+ a patch replacing it in applicable areas.
19:24:10 <Mic> Just uploaded my first patch to m-c :)
19:24:31 <clokep> What bug #?
19:25:02 <Mic> You don't want to know ;) It's a simple typo fix.
19:26:00 <Mic> One character. And that's what I've downloaded 500MB and used 3.4GB of my HDD space for! :D
19:28:06 <clokep> Haha.
19:28:11 <clokep> I hope it wasn't in a comment. ;)
19:29:04 <Mic> No, it was in a test. A check if a window is open was looking for the wrong window name.
19:29:17 <-- FireFly_TB has quit (Ping timeout)
19:52:40 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird
19:59:44 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: No time to waste, let's go!)
20:00:17 --> Mic has joined #instantbird
20:00:17 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 
20:17:37 <Mic> clokep, flo-retina: https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/343/
20:19:30 <clokep> Nothing for MUCs? :P
20:20:24 <Mic> No, not yet.
20:20:42 <clokep> Mic: I love that you make everything restartless btw :)
20:21:25 <Mic> :)
20:21:46 <Mic> That's both nice for users and for me (I hate having to restart when trying a new version of an add-on)
20:23:17 <Mic> The placeholder text is set when a conversation is loaded. It's never updated nor applied to existing conversations.
20:23:34 <Mic> Keep that in mind when changing the placeholder text from the options.
20:24:32 <clokep> So I can put things on hold and reopen to apply it.
20:25:49 <Mic> Yep
20:29:25 --> skeledrew1 has joined #instantbird
20:29:51 <-- skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout)
20:36:38 <Mic> Bye!
20:36:46 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: No time to waste, let's go!)
20:39:56 --> Kaishi has joined #instantbird
20:42:01 --> mconley has joined #instantbird
20:47:51 --> iLobster has joined #instantbird
20:48:20 <iLobster> Greetings.
20:50:51 <clokep> Hello.
20:51:20 <iLobster> ^^
20:52:34 <iLobster> Do we have langpacks as xpi files?
20:52:50 <clokep> I have no idea.
20:56:02 <iLobster> I've checked ftp, looks like it's only full localized versions on it.
21:00:00 <-- iLobster has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.4a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
21:24:41 --> rosonline has joined #instantbird
21:25:18 <-- rosonline has quit (Client exited)
21:26:51 --> rosonline has joined #instantbird
21:27:07 <-- rosonline has quit (Client exited)
21:27:10 --> rosonline has joined #instantbird
21:27:33 --> FireFly_TB has joined #instantbird
21:30:16 <-- Mnyromyr has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [SeaMonkey 1.1.19/2010030105])
21:31:04 <flo-retina> Mic, clokep: We often also use |aFoo || <default value| so looking for || may also be useful to find where default parameter values could be useful.
21:39:39 --> Mic has joined #instantbird
21:39:39 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 
21:50:17 <clokep> flo-retina: True. We should look for those too.
21:51:38 <-- FireFly_TB has quit (Ping timeout)
21:59:28 <-- mconley has quit (Input/output error)
22:13:38 <flo-retina> fwiw we have lots of langpacks at http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/l10n/
22:13:59 <flo-retina> I wouldn't bet on any of them actually working with a current nightly though ;)
22:16:56 <instantbot> New Core - General bug 1893 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
22:16:59 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1893 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Use Javascript default parameters where applicable
22:21:20 <-- flo-retina has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.4a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
22:24:10 <clokep> FYI I stared looking at that ^ in chat/
22:25:00 <-- rosonline has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
22:25:06 --> rosonline has joined #instantbird
22:28:14 <clokep> It makes changes like : http://pastebin.instantbird.com/155246
22:28:17 <clokep> Hopefully they're things we like.
22:32:41 <-- clokep has quit (Ping timeout)
23:06:56 <instantbot> New Core - General bug 1894 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
23:06:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1894 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, User javascript "...rest" parameters where applicable
23:07:07 --> mconley has joined #instantbird
23:12:31 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1895 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
23:12:33 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1895 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Remove prefix from -moz-calc()
23:20:22 <-- mconley has quit (Input/output error)
23:24:30 <spiffytech> Mic: I got that extension working the other night: https://github.com/spiffytech/instantbird_replacer
23:25:46 <Mic> Great!
23:25:59 <Mic> I've spotted a missing colon in line 13, though ;)
23:26:26 <Mic> *comma
23:27:46 <Mic> So it solved the problem you had with pinging or mentioning HipChat users?
23:27:49 <spiffytech> Oh, good catch!
23:28:22 <spiffytech> Yep, when I hit <return> those names get replaced with the appropriate format, which pings the HipChat users just like I need.
23:28:28 <spiffytech> Thanks for the help!
23:28:58 <Mic> Cool! You're welcome :)
23:29:00 <spiffytech> When I get some more time I'll polish it up to take the find/replace patterns from a UI element, but that's going to require rather a bit more diving into extension APIs :)
23:31:08 <Mic> I'm watching your repository now ;)
23:32:38 <spiffytech> Cool!
23:35:52 <Mic> Replace can take a replacement function as second parameter by the way.
23:37:05 <spiffytech> Oh, nice!
23:37:22 <Mic> That means you can rewrite the replacement string from "First Last" to "@FirstLast" by removing the spaces and prepending the "@".
23:37:49 <Mic> All you'd need would be an array of names, instead of a map then.
23:41:21 <spiffytech> I considered that, but decided for the key/value pairs when I decided to make it a more generalized replacement extension, thinking other users might have less well-patterned replacement needs. I may wind up allowing the user to supply a replacement function, though. 
23:44:15 <Mic> Ah, so that was intentional :)
23:45:05 <Mic> I wanted to suggest that you could store the names in a string (which would be easy to change from the options dialog of an add-on).
23:49:46 <spiffytech> That would be neat! Gotta figure out the options dialog stuff to make that happen.
23:54:46 <Mic> Do you want a pointer?
23:55:52 <spiffytech> Sure, that would be appreciated
23:56:35 <Mic> What about 0x3A28213A? :P
23:56:36 <Mic> scnr.
23:56:52 <Mic> Look for "Inline options" or check out the source of my latest add-on: https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/343/
23:57:31 --> mconley has joined #instantbird