#instantbird log on 02 14 2013

All times are UTC.

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03:11:19 <instant-buildbot> build #778 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Failure [failed compile]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/778
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05:39:57 <instant-buildbot> build #870 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/870
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10:03:42 <aleth> clokep: "The Windows 8 Metro User Interface for @FirefoxNightly is almost here. It should be available in a couple of hours"
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11:26:59 <clokep> Good morning.
11:27:26 <flo-retina> hello :)
11:28:01 * clokep made good progress on OSCAR last night!
11:28:06 <clokep> Well minus me breaking everything. :-D
11:28:32 <flo-retina> breaking everything may be good progress anyway :)
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11:31:40 <clokep> Yeah, it's just a syntax error, but those still seem painful to track down...
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11:37:28 <flo-retina> even with xpcshell?
11:39:51 <clokep> I haven't tried that yet. I need to remember the magic incantation. :-D
11:40:14 <flo-retina> in dist/bin just do ./xpcshell components/oscar.js
11:40:36 <flo-retina> it won't "work", but it will definitely parse the component and all the imported JS modules, so if there's a parse error it will tell you where
11:43:18 <clokep> Hmm...I see.
11:45:12 <clokep> Ah, file not found. :)
11:55:46 <clokep> There we go!
11:55:50 <clokep> Forgot to add a file to Makefile.in.
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14:57:46 <Mic> Hello
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14:59:39 <clokep_work> Good mornign Mic!
15:01:34 <flo-retina> morning?
15:01:48 <flo-retina> at 4pm? :-P
15:05:42 <clokep_work> flo-retina: It's always morning somewhere!
15:05:47 <clokep_work> Just like it's always 5PM somewhere. ;)
15:06:03 <flo-retina> clokep_work: sure
15:06:20 <flo-retina> but when the location isn't otherwise specified, I assume M ic is in Germany
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15:09:09 <clokep_work> Have I ever ranted about timezones to you? :P I dislike them.
15:09:35 <flo-retina> maybe give them friendly names?
15:09:37 * clokep_work really hates when people give him things without timezones specified.
15:10:49 <flo-retina> A friend told me that here it's the "baguette timezone", it's much better than crazy abbreviations ;)
15:13:26 <clokep_work> And don't get me started on daylight savings time.
15:13:33 <clokep_work> Or the minor differences between timezones.
15:13:42 <clokep_work> (Like UTC/GMT/GPS not all actually being the same thing...)
15:14:25 <flo-retina> sounds like a good time to talk about some obscure JS framework, or github, or a similarly 'ranty' topic :-D
15:14:29 <clokep_work> Anyway....good afternoon Mic!
15:15:17 <flo-retina> clokep_work: out of curiosity, do you frequently have to care about timezones that are outside of the US?
15:17:24 <clokep_work> flo-retina: I deal with people in the company across the US and world.
15:17:49 <clokep_work> I frequently get "stuff" which is timestamped, so..yes. :)
15:18:41 <flo-retina> ok :)
15:20:31 <clokep_work> It's kind of "Is this timestamp in milliseconds or seconds? Is it in local time, my local time or UTC? Is it being /displayed/ in my local time or UTC?"
15:26:02 <Mic> Actually I smiled when I got your "good morning". Often enough we're saying "good night" or other things just because it's this time of the day /here/ ;)
15:26:30 * clokep_work always feels lonely at night that he has no one to say "Good night" to. ;)
15:26:31 <flo-retina> Mic: I think we are saying it to explain why we are leaving
15:26:38 <clokep_work> Maybe I can start saying it to instantbot.
15:26:43 <clokep_work> instantbot: Good morning!
15:26:44 <instantbot> yo clokep_work
15:26:45 <flo-retina> I was about to suggest that!
15:27:03 <flo-retina> see, instantbot is happy to comfort you in whatever timezone you feel like being :)
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15:59:24 <clokep_work> :) Yeah he's nice like that.
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18:49:07 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Any idea what "Advo" is that I'm seeing being added to lots of whiteboards on BMO?
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18:55:56 * Mic advertised Instantbird on Majken Connor's IRC guide ;)
18:56:22 <clokep_work> What IRC guide is this?
18:59:02 <flo-retina> clokep_work: any example? I haven't seen that
18:59:56 <clokep_work> flo-retina: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=[Advo];list_id=5689219
19:00:15 <clokep_work> Someone named :Tyler Downer has been adding it all over the place...
19:00:48 * clokep_work wonders if there's a way to search who that is.
19:01:51 <Mic> clokep_work: http://steelgryphon.com/grand/?p=163 , it just appeared on PMO for me.
19:02:19 <flo-retina> clokep_work: his job title is "Support Analyst / User Advocate"
19:03:02 <flo-retina> so I would assume [Advo] means "User advocacy"
19:03:19 <clokep_work> Which means what?
19:04:27 <flo-retina> recommanding that someone installs ChatZilla in Thunderbird? Really? :(
19:04:50 <flo-retina> "It’s very easy to use, it’s very customizable and it’s easy to get support if you have trouble getting  started." does that really describe #chatzilla?
19:05:04 <clokep_work> Not at all.
19:05:54 * flo-retina wonders what Mic wrote to her
19:06:17 <flo-retina> clokep_work: I don't know what it's supposed to mean, but my guess would be "things that annoy lots of users can cause lots of support requests"
19:06:49 <Mic> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/141597
19:07:11 <clokep_work> There's so much wrong in that article. :(
19:07:23 <Mic> And another comment because I forgot mentioning that it is available on all major OS'
19:07:23 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Yeah I'm in #advocacy talking to them.
19:07:28 <flo-retina> clokep_work: like introducing IRC by saying it requires typing commands?
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19:07:50 <Kensie> hey Mic!
19:07:58 <Mic> Hi!
19:08:03 <Kensie> I tried instantbird AGES ago and I could never get it to run
19:08:08 <Kensie> Id idn't realize it was still around
19:08:34 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Or that / means a "command", that's part of the client, not the protocol...and it doesn't necessarily HAVE to be that.
19:09:09 <flo-retina> Kensie: hello :)
19:09:15 <Mic> It is and it's getting better and better ;)
19:09:42 <Mic> If you've got problem with it of any kind, just come here to get support!
19:09:51 <Kensie> I will try it again
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19:10:03 <Kensie> I use digsby, it gives me issues but it has features I need that the issues don't outweigh
19:10:19 <Mic> What are these features?
19:10:51 <flo-retina> Kensie: we welcome all feedback, so if there are things you would like to see improved, please feel free to talk about them :)
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19:11:32 <Kensie> flo-retina: sure, well the big thing I need is the auto-hide with docking
19:11:38 <flo-retina> Kensie: Instantbird's IRC has received a lot of love recently, and we do our best to make it user friendly
19:11:40 <Kensie> there was a pidgin extension that did one but not the other
19:11:43 <clokep_work> (In particular, I'm really interested in making IRC a lot easier to use...)
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19:13:07 <flo-retina> Kensie: I'm really not sure of what "auto-hide with docking" means :-/.
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19:13:36 <Kensie> flo-retina: ok so I have my buddy list docked to the side of the screen
19:13:50 <Kensie> and then digsby also allows me to auto-hide it when it's not in focus
19:14:12 <Kensie> so it works like the windows taskbar if you set it to auto-hide, it slides out when you mouse over to that side of the screen
19:15:54 <Kensie> I think the pidgin plugin was auto-hide but it minimized it, so to open it I had to click on the tray icon
19:16:01 <flo-retina> when it's hidden, is there still a visible one pixel line that you can hover to make it reappear?
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19:16:09 <Kensie> Yes
19:17:16 <flo-retina> so to implement that we would need to set the window to be always on top of everything else, and then resize automatically depending on whether it's hovered or not
19:17:33 <flo-retina> Mic: didn't you write an always-on-top add-on at some point?
19:17:42 <Mic> Yes, it should still be working
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19:18:54 <flo-retina> Mic: is it possible to resize a window to 1px on Windows?
19:19:07 <flo-retina> on mac there seems to be a minimal width :-/
19:19:11 <Mic> Let me try...
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19:20:12 <clokep_work> flo-retina: You could not resize it and move it to 1-width
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19:20:45 <flo-retina> would we be able to move it with a CSS transition when it's hovered?
19:21:12 <clokep_work> Possibly.
19:21:30 <Mic> I'd guess no.
19:21:51 <flo-retina> I don't think CSS can control the position of the window itself
19:22:25 <flo-retina> so we would likely have to animate it ourselves with some JS
19:23:23 <Mic> Would we want to hide the window borders / status bar when docked?
19:24:13 <flo-retina> why?
19:24:37 <flo-retina> if its width is 1px only, the content of the window isn't visible
19:24:54 <flo-retina> hmm, or do you mean that we can't detect that the window is hovered when only the border is hovered?
19:28:36 <clokep_work> Kensie: I'd suggest trying Instantbird for IRC anyway, it's much easier to use than ChatZilla...and much easier to get help w/, IMO.
19:28:42 <Mic> No, I meant when the content is visible already. If you're not undocking the window often (which could happen by dragging it away from the edge of screen), the window border/statusbar/titlebar are only taking up space.
19:29:15 <Mic> Maybe we should experiment with an extension :)
19:29:49 <flo-retina> Mic: are you volunteering for making such an add-on?
19:29:58 <flo-retina> Mic: I wasn't even considering that one could want to undock the window
19:29:59 <Kensie> clokep_work: ok I'll add it to the post!
19:30:32 <Kensie> flo-retina: btw digsby is open source now, you could see how they do it
19:31:13 <flo-retina> Mic: I was just thinking of a restartless add-on that sets the blist window as always on top, moves it automatically to offscreen minus 1px, and adds a mouseover event listener to animate showing the window when hovered
19:31:54 <flo-retina> Kensie: the solution is likely significantly different for them. If I remember correctly digsby is mostly in python. We need a solution that works with the Mozilla platform
19:31:56 <Mic> Kensie: do you expect the window to cover the full height of the screen when docked?
19:32:51 <flo-retina> Mic: I do (so that touching any point of the edge of the screen shows it again). However making the background transparent instead of white, and semi-transparent behind contacts could be nice
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19:33:42 <Kensie> Mic: yes, that is what usually happens
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19:41:35 <Mic> Kensie: do you use more than one screen? If yes, you (hopefully) don't dock the program to the edge between two screens? ;)
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19:44:22 <Kensie> I don't currently use two screens, but when I did no, I docked it on the outside side :)
19:44:35 <Kensie> I think that's a case where people would expect it to break ;)
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19:57:05 <Mic> If you've got other ideas for improvements, either let us know here or file a bug at http://bugzilla.instantbird.org :)
20:05:54 <Kensie> Mic: well I have to try it first, but that is my must-have feature. I will file if I think of more ;)
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20:15:32 <instant-buildbot> build #775 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/775
20:15:53 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Do we know what the deal is with the failing linux builds?
20:16:57 <flo-retina> :)
20:17:05 <flo-retina> (the ":)" was for the mac)
20:17:16 <flo-retina> the deal with the linux build is we need to motivate Even to go fix it
20:18:38 * clokep_work gets a pointy stick and goes looking for Even.
20:22:33 <EionRobb> just tell linux people to run IB with wine
20:25:41 <flo-retina> EionRobb: not providing 64 bit builds is already enough to upset them ;)
20:25:45 * Mic must not say something about niche OS'. /me must not... :P
20:26:00 <flo-retina> like Firefox OS?
20:29:14 <Mic> Is there a way to load own modules from a bootstrapped extension?
20:38:21 <Mic> Problem is that I can't use resource directives in the chrome.manifest of a bootstrapped extension.
20:38:55 <Mic> (and trying to load a module from a chrome-uri doesn't work either)
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20:41:36 <flo-retina> Mic: can't you get a file: url from the add-on manager?
20:42:07 <Mic> I've found something at http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2011/01/restartless-add-ons-more-resources/
20:42:20 <Mic> I'll try this first...
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20:52:43 <Mic> Works now :)
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21:14:27 <clokep_work> Mic: How did you set something as always on top via an extension?
21:14:30 <clokep_work> (And what are you doing? :))
21:14:57 <Mic> There's an windows API for this and js-ctypes to call it.
21:15:26 <clokep_work> Ah, OK.
21:15:47 <clokep_work> I thought you were setting the alwaysOnTop of the window...
21:16:09 <Mic> I'm working on something different at the moment.
21:16:58 <Mic> I made the WIP in bug 1648 work from an extension (with the same problem regarding the tags but I'm looking into this right now).
21:17:01 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1648 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Easily tell what changed in the topic
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21:18:53 <clokep_work> Mic: I'd really love to try that for a bit. :) I think an extension is the way to try it first, yes.
21:19:03 * clokep_work is very excited you're working on it.
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21:31:07 <clokep_work> Btw, I would be fairly curious about why it's printing as text, once you figure that out.
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22:00:10 <Mic> clokep: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/protocols/irc/ircUtils.jsm#18 seems to be the culprit
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22:33:08 <Mic> clokep: http://i.imgur.com/4InqOxm.png :)
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22:33:33 <EionRobb> Mic: nice :)
22:33:52 <Mic> I cheated a bit, though ;)
22:34:38 <Mic> I inserted the necessary CSS directly into the conversation skin (i.e. patching IB) instead of inserting it from the add-on
22:34:46 <Mic> That's something for tomorrow ;)
22:41:30 <clokep> Mic: Nicely done. :)
22:42:35 <flo-retina> interesting :)
22:42:43 <flo-retina> I don't think the colors really add value here btw
22:43:11 <flo-retina> just the underline and the strike through may be enough (do you get them with <ins> and <del> tags?)
22:43:41 <flo-retina> and "has changed the topic to:" should be changed to "has changed the topic:"
22:43:49 <flo-retina> exciting progress anyway :)
22:45:18 <clokep> Ooo excellent! http://globau.wordpress.com/2013/02/15/bugzilla-mozilla-org-4-2-upgrade/
22:45:56 <flo-retina> aaaaaaaaaaaaah! :) :) :)
22:46:16 <Mic> flo-retina: no, it's just span's with styling
22:46:18 <Mic> https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/attachment.cgi?id=2206&action=diff&headers=0#a/chat/themes/conv.css_sec1
22:48:09 <Mic> "ins" and "del" sound like a good idea :)
22:49:06 <flo-retina> you would have to allow them in the filters :-/
22:50:22 <Mic> flo-retina: in my opinion it is rather the underline that doesn't add much.
22:51:06 <flo-retina> the two of us always seem to disagree on theming stuff ;)
22:51:25 <Mic> ;)
22:51:52 <flo-retina> Mic: heh http://steelgryphon.com/grand/?p=163#comment-958
22:51:58 <flo-retina> Mark also noticed ;)
22:54:00 <Mic> I allowed the diff-... class names with a global filter at the moment. I was thinking about adding a random number at the end to make them hard/almost impossible to guess. A bit hackish though...
22:56:23 <flo-retina> we really need a way to remember that some markup was added by Instantbird rather than coming from the network
22:56:53 <Mic> This would be great yes :)
22:57:09 <Mic> I had a similar problem when experimenting with inline content previews.
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23:01:43 <flo-retina> yes, I remember. And we have that problem relatively frequently anyway
23:01:58 <flo-retina> Good night
23:02:15 <Mic> Good night!
23:04:12 <Mic> clokep: do you want to have a look right now? I can upload what I have. It won't work without patching IB though...
23:04:24 <clokep> Mic: No, that's fine.
23:07:55 <-- qlum has quit (Quit: Getting the <censored> out.)
23:17:28 * clokep finally has OSCAR running again.
23:17:38 <Mic> :)
23:17:48 <Mic> You said you made good progress yesterday?
23:22:55 <Mic> Good night!
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23:38:48 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 2228 on bug 1100.
23:38:51 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1100 cri, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Use Firefox untrusted cert dialog for "SSL Handshake failed" errors
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