#instantbird log on 02 08 2013

All times are UTC.

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03:36:32 <instant-buildbot> build #771 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/771
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04:25:28 <instant-buildbot> build #769 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/769
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07:27:27 <instant-buildbot> build #863 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Failure [failed shell_3]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/863
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09:06:55 <MMN-o> Hulloh, I was thinking of filing a bug for XMPP and suggesting a random Resource generator
09:07:33 <MMN-o> as resources are possibly a security risk (defaulting to "Thunderbird" can let people look for Thunderbird-specific vulnerabilities for example)
09:08:25 <MMN-o> as well as it seems to cause collisions as I have more than one computer with a client that defaults to identical resources :)
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09:13:07 <MMN-o> It seems that if I leave the Resource field empty in my configuration it defaults to "Thunderbird"
09:13:43 <MMN-o> And I personally think that the field should initally be empty - and if it's empty, a random resource should be assigned.
09:16:00 <MMN-o> Should I report to bugzilla.mozilla.org or bugzilla.instantbird.org? :)
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09:32:11 <MMN-o> I put a report up here https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=839421
09:39:40 <instantbot> New Core - XMPP bug 1874 filed by mmn@hethane.se.
09:39:42 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1874 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Resource collision should be avoided with random resource names
09:39:45 <MMN-o> ...and there.
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10:28:50 * flo-retina things bug 1874 is invalid
10:28:52 <flo-retina> *thinks
10:28:53 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1874 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, XMPP Resource collision should be avoided with random resource names
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10:31:03 <aleth> Hmm... interesting. Isn't that the kind of thing that should be in the XMPP specs somewhere?
10:32:02 * aleth also suspects it's invalid. If you are running two instances, give them different resource names yourself, but they should persist afaik
10:35:47 <MMN-o> aleth: Yes, _if_ one assigns an explicit resource that resource should persist.
10:36:07 <MMN-o> aleth: However defaulting to something so simple that it will collide if you have multiple computers is likely to cause confusion and frustration with users
10:37:02 <MMN-o> aleth: There's no rule on what the resource should be in the XMPP spec, only suggestions that you can use it as a "Home" resource and a "Work" resource.
10:37:36 <MMN-o> flo-retina: Consider the average user who has a laptop and a stationary computer. Both running, say, Thunderbird.
10:38:22 <MMN-o> flo-retina: If this user sets up chat on both computers, they must be 1. aware of what the "Resource" field actually means, 2. aware that it can't collide, 3. understand WHY your client hops in and out every couple of seconds
10:38:41 <Mic> 3. is a bug imo
10:38:47 <MMN-o> point 3 not being very obvious unless you're staring at them both at the same time (or with me having access to server logs)
10:39:52 <MMN-o> So as I wrote in the report, _default_ should be random assigning on client startup. (security-related as well as avoiding collisions)
10:40:25 <MMN-o> but manually assigning a resource name should of course save it until changed again or erased.
10:41:00 <MMN-o> Easiest way of doing it would be just having an empty resource field, and if it's empty assign the volatile variable with a random string.
10:41:11 <flo-retina> MMN-o: I'm pretty sure the spec says that the client suggests a resource and the the server then assigns a resource based on the client's suggestion. It's the server's task to avoid collisions
10:41:41 <flo-retina> MMN-o: which server is causing a problem with resource collisions for you?
10:41:48 <MMN-o> flo-retina: Prosody
10:42:05 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org cancelled review?(clokep@gmail.com) for attachment 2224 on bug 1680.
10:42:06 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org requested review from clokep@gmail.com for attachment 2225 on bug 1680.
10:42:07 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1680 enh, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Enable "minimize on startup"
10:42:08 <Mic> Couldn't the "resource string changes at beginning of a new session"-behaviour be a possible privacy issue?
10:42:15 <MMN-o> Feb 08 10:12:58 c2sb11f860      debug   Destroying session for mmn@hethane.se/Thunderbird (mmn@hethane.se): Replaced by new connection
10:42:45 <flo-retina> I really don't think random resource ids are a good idea
10:42:57 <MMN-o> Mic: I'm happy with just about any behaviour as long as one doesn't get collisions
10:42:58 <flo-retina> aren't they meant to let people identify each computer?
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10:44:11 <flo-retina> MMN-o: see http://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc3920.html#bind
10:44:23 <flo-retina> especially "A server that supports resource binding MUST be able to generate a resource identifier on behalf of a client. A resource identifier generated by the server MUST be unique for that <node@domain>."
10:44:29 <MMN-o> flo-retina: Yes, they can absolutely be used for that. I _personally_ wouldn't mind just having like "Thunderbird-%s" where %s is the hostname
10:44:29 * aleth always dislikes specializing to a pref branch for some reason
10:45:08 <Mic> MMN-o: if flo is right and the server should avoid collisions, shouldn't we rather file a bug with them?
10:45:16 <MMN-o> flo-retina: Ah, so if the client doesn't request a specific resource?
10:45:47 <flo-retina> MMN-o: "Once the server has generated a resource identifier for the client or accepted the resource identifier provided by the client, it MUST return an IQ stanza of type "result" to the client, which MUST include a <jid/> child element that specifies the full JID for the connected resource as determined by the server"
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10:46:22 <flo-retina> the only case in the spec that we may not handle correctly is a resource conflict that a (stupid) server isn't able to handle
10:46:36 <flo-retina> in that case, it's the new connection that should fail, the old one shouldn't get dropped.
10:46:37 <MMN-o> flo-retina: The specification actually says that the random-generating-logic should be on the serverside. Which I'm entirely ok with. ("If the client wishes to allow the server to generate the resource identifier on its behalf, it sends an IQ stanza of type "set" that contains an empty <bind/> element: "
10:46:43 <flo-retina> So it seems the server behavior you described is broken.
10:47:23 <MMN-o> flo-retina: What you're describing is the behaviour when a client _doesn't_ send a resource name.
10:47:27 <flo-retina> MMN-o: for what is worth, Google Talk randomizes the end of the resource id for each connection, and that's handled correctly by Instantbird
10:48:01 <flo-retina> MMN-o: have you seen the "A server SHOULD accept the resource identifier provided by the client, but MAY override it with a resource identifier that the server generates" sentence? ;)
10:48:34 <flo-retina> MMN-o: so in case of resource conflict, the server should either generate another resource identifier and send it to the client, OR send an error to the second client
10:48:42 <flo-retina> (not the first one)
10:49:24 <MMN-o> flo-retina: However it doesn't say that the server MUST override it. So replacing the connection is entirely correct.
10:49:32 <flo-retina> not at all
10:49:52 <flo-retina> hmm, well. It's not a specified behavior at least
10:49:54 <MMN-o> I'll spend some more time reading the context around it
10:50:02 <MMN-o> and see if I'm missing something
10:50:25 <flo-retina> MMN-o: anyway, I would be really curious to see which stanzas are received just before the connection gets closed
10:50:46 <flo-retina> I don't think we can usefully discuss this further until we have a debug log of what's actually causing one of your clients to be disconnected
10:51:38 <aleth> See http://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc3921.html section 3
10:52:00 <aleth> "If there is already an active resource of the same name, the server MUST either (1) terminate the active resource and allow the newly-requested session, or (2) disallow the newly-requested session and maintain the active resource. Which of these the server does is up to the implementation, although it is RECOMMENDED to implement case #1."
10:52:34 <flo-retina> hmm
10:53:38 <aleth> Examples follow...
10:54:13 <MMN-o> I think this is most easily, and true to spec, resolved by not replacing an empty Resource and then accepting the new resource name from the server
10:54:29 <aleth> elsewhere: "You must be careful not to auto-reconnect with the older client, or you will have written the "dueling resources" bug."
10:55:13 <flo-retina> ok, so we need to handle that <conflict> tag in 2 different cases
10:55:38 <flo-retina> we could probably use the same algorithm that we use for conflicting IRC nicks
10:56:23 <flo-retina> ok, so bug 1874 isn't invalid, sorry :)
10:56:26 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1874 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, XMPP Resource collision should be avoided with random resource names
10:57:04 <MMN-o> This is my prosody.log http://pastebin.com/Sckr4PqL
10:57:26 <MMN-o> revealing my IP, JID and everything. Awesome.
10:57:28 <aleth> flo-retina: Don't we get presence info from other connected resources for the same account, os one can avoid the conflict? Or does that happen later in the connection process?
10:58:02 <flo-retina> aleth: it happens later
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11:03:16 <flo-retina> MMN-o: by the way, I've never encountered that resource conflict issue during my testing, but it may be because I tested more on Google Talk than on other servers.
11:03:54 <aleth> MMN-o: Right, if we could have had js-xmpp enabled on IB, we would probably have run into it by now...
11:04:24 <aleth> MMN-o: thanks for the bug report!
11:07:11 <MMN-o> I posted my comments on the tracker regarding what the default should be, but I'm happy as long as people I introduce Thunderbird IMing to won't have weird connection issues ;)
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11:08:00 <flo-retina> MMN-o: yeah, getting disconnected isn't a nice behavior
11:10:58 <MMN-o> I wouldn't mind trying to patch this myself, but last time I tried to compile Instantbird it took ages and something (I believe OOM?) caused the make command to crash
11:11:22 <MMN-o> so I've postponed that until I have a slightly faster system to work with :)
11:12:22 <MMN-o> But maybe I don't have to recompile from scratch to manipulate these things?
11:14:04 <flo-retina> you can hack that without recompiling, aleth can tell you how :)
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11:14:32 <flo-retina> and we can certainly help you find the relevant files
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11:21:26 <MMN-o> That means I might end up doing the StatusNet/GNU Social API link too, assuming I make time for it :)
11:22:09 <MMN-o> (i.e. a very Twitter-like API)
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11:26:07 <flo-retina> MMN-o: sounds like a great idea too! :)
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15:27:09 * aleth wonders if clokep is snowed under...
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16:40:07 <NicoHood> is it possible to recive files from icq users via instantbird???
16:40:22 <NicoHood> i only get a message when somebody trys
16:43:32 <flo-retina> no
16:47:13 <NicoHood> k
16:47:48 <NicoHood> my icq chat partner has got a differnt text color. is it possible to set this to defauklt? this blue is very making me angry :D
16:49:00 <flo-retina> sure
16:49:14 <flo-retina> in the preferences window, there's an option for that in the "Content" pane
16:49:26 <flo-retina> "Display formattings of incoming messages:"
16:53:29 <NicoHood> which preference window?
16:53:36 <NicoHood> how do i get there?
16:56:42 <flo-retina> oh you are on Thunderbird
16:57:20 <flo-retina> NicoHood: so when you ask anything here, the assumption is that you are using Instantbird. If you aren't, you should specify it in your question.
16:57:43 <NicoHood> thunderbird + instandbird
16:58:01 <flo-retina> setting messenger.options.filterMode to 1 from about:config should do
16:58:24 <NicoHood> but there is no adress line.. :S
16:58:47 <flo-retina> "Config editor" in the Advanced tab
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19:20:29 <Mic> Good evening!
19:41:31 <NicoHood> moin
19:41:44 * Mic just learned that   m(   seems to be the facepalm-emoticon. I strongly support adding such an icon to our default emoticon theme! ;)
19:42:17 <NicoHood> ;( is a crying face
19:42:23 <NicoHood> why is there no icon???
19:56:27 <Mic> Try :' ( instead: :'(
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