#instantbird log on 01 31 2013

All times are UTC.

00:07:31 <-- mpmc has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.4a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
00:29:55 * clokep grumbles about how confusing account.xml is.
00:30:25 <EionRobb> why's that? :)
00:33:58 <-- qlum has quit (Connection reset by peer)
00:34:10 --> qlum has joined #instantbird
00:37:40 <-- MMN-o has quit (Ping timeout)
00:40:53 --> MMN-o has joined #instantbird
00:41:01 <clokep> Because the code is super obfuscated and confusing.
00:42:11 <EionRobb> which bit?
00:49:41 <clokep> The entire UI layer for the account manager.
00:56:49 <-- qlum has quit (Quit: Getting the <censored> out.)
01:15:53 --> Optimizer has joined #instantbird
02:23:59 <-- Mook_as has quit (Quit: Mook_as)
02:35:45 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.4a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
02:47:13 <-- spiffytech has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
03:17:27 <-- Optimizer has quit (Ping timeout)
03:20:53 --> Optimizer has joined #instantbird
03:36:08 <instant-buildbot> build #763 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/763
03:41:42 <-- Optimizer has quit (Ping timeout)
04:01:46 --> mconley has joined #instantbird
04:07:35 <-- EionRobb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
04:22:06 --> Mook has joined #instantbird
04:23:03 --> Optimizer has joined #instantbird
04:27:20 <instant-buildbot> build #761 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/761
04:30:02 <-- Kaishi has quit (Quit: Kaishi)
04:40:39 <-- mconley has quit (Input/output error)
05:29:54 <instant-buildbot> build #855 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/855
06:13:24 <-- Mook has quit (Ping timeout)
06:13:48 <-- Optimizer has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.4a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
06:17:28 --> Mook has joined #instantbird
07:03:09 <-- Mook has quit (Quit: Mook)
08:01:31 --> jb has joined #instantbird
08:01:38 --> jb1 has joined #instantbird
08:03:15 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout)
08:29:54 <-- jb1 has quit (Input/output error)
08:29:57 --> jb has joined #instantbird
08:43:06 <-- Even has quit (Ping timeout)
08:59:41 --> gerard-majax__ has joined #instantbird
09:52:33 --> flo-retina has joined #instantbird
09:52:34 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo-retina flo-retina 
10:02:22 --> Mic has joined #instantbird
10:02:22 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 
10:22:38 --> skeledrew1 has joined #instantbird
10:22:55 <-- skeledrew has quit (Connection reset by peer)
10:36:03 <flo-retina> clokep: re http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/today#m1 are you volunteering to fix bug 1219?
10:36:06 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1219 tri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Cleanup the account.xml binding
10:40:55 <-- chrisccoulson has quit (Quit: PM: Preparing frontal lobe for mem sleep)
10:41:49 --> chrisccoulson has joined #instantbird
11:07:15 --> mpmc has joined #instantbird
11:15:09 --> clokep has joined #instantbird
11:15:09 * ChanServ sets mode +o clokep 
11:17:24 <clokep> flo-retina: No. :p
11:17:36 <clokep> I'm more of hoping to convince aleth to do the UI part for me. :-D
11:17:51 <flo-retina> that could work
11:18:02 <flo-retina> although I'm afraid I tried that several times without much success already :)
11:24:38 <clokep> Not to rewrite the whole thing, just to do the UI for the cert stuff. Pretty much I just need a button added with a callback, which is only visible in certain situations.
11:36:03 <flo-retina> sure, you just want to duct tape another layer above a pile of junk :)
11:36:17 * flo-retina thinks he's done that a few times already on that specific file :-[
11:36:40 <clokep> Yeah, pretty much. :)
11:36:59 <clokep> So we consider that bug trivial?? :P
11:37:30 <flo-retina> yeah, because it's just cleanup
11:37:46 <flo-retina> no visible issue for the user, and no really visible improvement from fixing it either
11:37:55 <clokep> So I would think about doing it...but I couldn't even find where it decides which buttons are visible, etc. :-/
11:38:10 <flo-retina> it's done through CSS, isn't it?
11:38:55 <flo-retina> iirc the hiding is done through CSS but the disabling is done through JS
11:40:31 <clokep> :(
11:40:34 <clokep> Maybe...
11:41:07 <clokep> Ah, here http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/accounts.css
11:49:51 <clokep> Hmm...just doing the labels might help clean that code up a bit.
11:49:58 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.4a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
11:55:43 --> aleth has joined #instantbird
11:55:44 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 
12:45:25 --> clokep_work has joined #instantbird
12:45:25 * ChanServ sets mode +o clokep_work 
12:45:38 <-- Mic has quit (Connection reset by peer)
13:06:10 <-- Tonnes has quit (Connection reset by peer)
13:11:42 <flo-retina> that email doesn't seem to make any sense to me
13:11:53 <flo-retina> is he saying that he wants to volunteer to write better documentation?
13:14:20 --> Tonnes has joined #instantbird
13:16:39 <aleth> I doubt it...
13:18:04 <aleth> I guess he is confused about some things, but it's not clear what exactly
13:18:21 <aleth> Probably the best thing would be to refer him to #instantbird
13:20:26 <clokep_work> Which email is this?
13:20:40 <aleth> OTOH he can't have spent much time reading our wiki or he would have found our "bug tracker" ;)
13:20:58 <flo-retina> clokep_work: José's
13:21:37 <flo-retina> aleth: I think he's already been referred to #instantbird at least once, if not twice
13:21:45 <flo-retina> and I'm starting to wonder if he's trolling us
13:24:48 <clokep_work> He's been referred here a few times, he seems to not really understand technology fairly well. Although some of it might be a language barrier.
13:24:58 <clokep_work> I don't think he's purposefully trolling us.
13:25:02 * clokep_work keeps hoping he gets bored.
13:25:50 <flo-retina> one could also hope that he stops getting bored, and so stops sending non-sense emails ;)
13:27:08 <flo-retina> and I don't think language barrier is a good excuse for meaningless messages that don't seem to go anywhere. (it would be a good excuse for poor grammar or for a few misused words)
13:29:10 <clokep_work> Maybe.
13:32:35 <aleth> While it's hard to be on point if you are confused, the main problem is it's totally unclear what he is trying to do (maybe he doesn't know himself yet...)
13:32:41 <clokep_work> (Also, FWIW, I don't get mailing list stuff as email, so I had to go look it up in the archives. :))
13:33:01 <clokep_work> aleth: He's trying to create an extension which one of us (probably me or you) suggested in a different thread.
13:33:27 <clokep_work> I think the "start minimized" thread.
13:33:30 <aleth> Oh... I didn't realize it was the same guy.
13:36:25 <aleth> That won't be easy if he's already struggling with the wiki... :-|
13:36:41 <-- aleth has quit (Input/output error)
13:42:25 * clokep_work hopes that aleth gets a debug log right now. :)
14:13:42 --> qlum has joined #instantbird
14:14:33 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout)
14:16:58 --> mconley has joined #instantbird
15:33:38 --> Optimizer has joined #instantbird
15:36:25 <-- SM0TVI has quit (Connection reset by peer)
15:38:14 --> SM0TVI has joined #instantbird
15:55:42 --> jb has joined #instantbird
15:56:28 --> Even has joined #instantbird
15:56:29 * ChanServ sets mode +o Even 
15:56:35 <-- Even has quit (Quit: Even)
15:58:27 --> rosonline has joined #instantbird
15:59:29 <-- Optimizer has quit (Ping timeout)
16:03:32 --> Optimizer has joined #instantbird
16:07:22 <-- Optimizer has quit (Ping timeout)
16:11:05 --> Optimizer has joined #instantbird
16:23:52 <-- gerard-majax__ has quit (Ping timeout)
17:05:14 --> Mnyromyr has joined #instantbird
17:46:49 --> Mook_as has joined #instantbird
18:07:08 <-- jb has quit (Connection reset by peer)
18:07:09 --> jb1 has joined #instantbird
18:13:01 <-- mpmc has quit (Connection reset by peer)
18:21:10 <Optimizer> Is there a bug to load the messages from a very long conversation in an opposite fashion
18:21:29 <Optimizer> so that you see the ones that are the latest the first and the rest load above it, keeping the scrolled position fixed.
18:21:30 <Optimizer> ?
18:21:53 <Optimizer> that would be a really great feature, instead of waiting for 10 seconds for the ping to be visible
18:23:51 <clokep_work> Optimizer: There isn't one specifically about that, no. But there are bugs about it not taking so long to load.
18:24:09 <Optimizer> i doubt that will get fixed
18:24:15 <Optimizer> as there is not much to do there
18:24:28 <Optimizer> if 1000 of messages are added to dom ,it ought to take time
18:26:35 <flo-retina> Optimizer: we can still optimize significantly
18:26:55 <flo-retina> I think I removed 30% of the time at the end of December (after starting to play with the gecko profiler)
18:27:14 <flo-retina> but yes, it will still take too long (where "too long" is defined as "enough to make the user wait")
18:27:22 <Optimizer> yeah, but there is nothing that much to optimize here. the time might reduce to 5 seonconds for 1000 messages, but still 2000 messages will take 10 seconds and it will increase as number of messages increases
18:27:36 <Optimizer> so take it by my nick, the real solution is what I say :)
18:27:38 <clokep_work> Optimizer: I didn't say just optimizing the code, there's also ideas of only loading the past xxx messages, etc.
18:27:47 <flo-retina> Optimizer: we don't have plans to load in the opposite way like you suggest, but we would like to load only the last 50 or so messages, and at the others to the DOM only if the user scrolls.
18:27:55 <flo-retina> Optimizer: that would save memory in addition to saving time
18:28:14 <Optimizer> true, but why not in the opposite fashion >?
18:28:18 <Optimizer> the end result will be same
18:28:24 <Optimizer> its just how they will be loaded
18:28:35 <flo-retina> memory usage is also a concern ;)
18:28:42 <Optimizer> and its as simple as doing inssertBefore(node, firstChild) instead of appendChild(node)
18:28:54 <clokep_work> Optimizer: No it isn't.
18:28:56 <flo-retina> oh, if you know that it's simple already, you can just do it
18:29:00 <clokep_work> That makes assumptions about the message theme.
18:29:10 <Optimizer> you can then combine the logic to load only last 50 messages too.
18:29:29 <Optimizer> true, that bubbles might not be able to handle it
18:29:39 <Optimizer> combining messages and all.
18:29:50 <flo-retina> Optimizer: bubble is especially annoying for that with the intervals between bubbles
18:30:06 <flo-retina> Optimizer: but most other times (except Simple) will also have a problem with grouped consecutive messages
18:30:11 <flo-retina> err, themes
18:30:27 <Optimizer> not for me :P I use mibbit
18:30:34 <Optimizer> so is there a way that I can do it via addon ?
18:30:40 <Optimizer> I would be happy with that too
18:31:04 <clokep_work> Sure, you can pretty much do whatever in an add-on.
18:31:04 <flo-retina> why not as a patch? :)
18:31:15 <Optimizer> because you have no plans of implementing it
18:31:22 <flo-retina> aleth should be able to help you
18:31:25 <Optimizer> and for grouping themes, it will not work out that well
18:31:43 <Optimizer> clokep_work: I meant can someone point me to some links to do that please ? :)
18:32:11 <flo-retina> Optimizer: well, the reason why we haven't implemented loading only the last N few messages is that we don't know how to insert a message before the existing ones. If you fix that part, loading only a few messages is relatively easy
18:32:21 <flo-retina> and could be done as a follow-up patch
18:32:30 <Optimizer> uh oh.
18:32:35 <flo-retina> (the only additional tricky part when loading only a few messages will be to fake the scrollbar)
18:32:50 <Optimizer> that is easy
18:33:02 <Optimizer> load one at the first one's actual position
18:33:27 <flo-retina> Optimizer: well, knowing the vertical size of a message before it's been displayed isn't easy at all ;)
18:33:34 <Optimizer> btw, what do you mean that you don't know how to add before the existing messages ?
18:34:15 <Optimizer> flo-retina: that will be true for all the cases then
18:34:33 <Optimizer> here we are coming to a conclusion that loading last X messages is also not a solution :P
18:34:57 <Optimizer> but I must say that the new downloads library view used to hang the browser for 2 minutes
18:35:02 <Optimizer> and now its no hang at all
18:35:09 <Optimizer> they optimized upto 99%
18:35:18 <flo-retina> Optimizer: no, the conclusion is that it's something we want to do but that it's difficult so it will require someone taking care of it for a while
18:35:29 <Optimizer> what they o is add blank richlistitems and populate them as user scrolls.
18:36:09 <Optimizer> but for them its easy as they have a fixed size of each item, here it is really tricky
18:36:41 <flo-retina> Optimizer: yeah, I think we will have to use a heuristic to approximate the height of a message
18:36:54 <flo-retina> Optimizer: that will likely require some tweaking
18:37:03 <Optimizer> but they will fail if you are assuming some width 
18:37:16 <Optimizer> but the user switches width without opening the window somehow
18:37:37 <Optimizer> there are so many dependencies here :(
18:37:53 <Optimizer> btw, why is it difficult to insert messages before another ?
18:38:42 <flo-retina> because of message grouping
18:38:42 <clokep_work> The grouping of messages and other things that the message themes can do.
18:39:03 <Optimizer> ah..
18:39:08 <flo-retina> I think the best solution is to continue looking for older messages until we find a message that won't be grouped
18:39:20 <Optimizer> that is why I want to do it as an addon, which will be straight forward for my theme :P
18:39:27 <flo-retina> that should usually work. And if you are super unlucky and the 1000 messages are from the same person, it will hang.
18:39:59 <Optimizer> but atleast you know whom to remove from your friend list :P
18:40:37 <flo-retina> Optimizer: well, the situation I was assuming was an IRC channel with a bot being the only voiced user (for example firebot announcing bug changes ;))
18:40:50 <Optimizer> 1000
18:40:50 <Optimizer> really ?
18:40:56 <Optimizer> no one is that productive :P
18:41:08 <flo-retina> it could be over several weeks
18:41:28 <flo-retina> we recently had someone who gave us about:memory reports of an Instantbird instance that's been running for several weeks
18:41:30 <clokep_work> flo-retina: You'd most likely end up with system message sin there too?
18:41:37 <flo-retina> he had 20+MB of raw tweet data :-D
18:41:51 <Optimizer> there is an about:memory ?
18:41:56 <flo-retina> clokep_work: right. Except if someone comes up with a clever way to hide them
18:42:08 <flo-retina> Optimizer: of course. It's part of gecko ;)
18:42:16 <Optimizer> how to see then ?
18:42:26 <flo-retina> openDialog("about:memory") from the Error Console
18:42:35 <Optimizer> :|
18:42:49 <flo-retina> instantbot: about:memory is <reply>openDialog("about:memory") from the Error Console
18:42:50 <instantbot> flo-retina: ok
18:42:56 <flo-retina> instantbot: about:memory
18:42:57 <instantbot> flo-retina: openDialog("about:memory") from the Error Console
18:43:40 <Optimizer> why is there no inspector 
18:43:46 <Optimizer> or any other real devtool ?
18:43:59 <Optimizer> just this fugly error console
18:44:02 <flo-retina> DOM inspector works
18:44:09 <Optimizer> not as addon I meant
18:44:19 <flo-retina> if you compile with --enable-debug it's there by default
18:44:39 <Optimizer> so DOMi is there by default, but no other devtool ?
18:44:53 <flo-retina> are you volunteering to add them? :)
18:45:17 <Optimizer> I guess, I deserved that :P
18:46:46 <flo-retina> right, everybody deserves good tools! :)
18:47:41 <Optimizer> no, I meant "are you volunteering for that "
18:49:16 --> Optimizer1 has joined #instantbird
18:49:27 <-- Optimizer has quit (Ping timeout)
18:50:34 <flo-retina> I knew what you meant ;)
18:50:55 <Optimizer1> :P
18:51:08 <Optimizer1> soo.. if I can get some links, maybe I can at least do it for mibbit
18:51:14 <Optimizer1> will help some poor fellas
18:53:33 <clokep_work> Optimizer1: Links for what?
18:53:51 <Optimizer1> how maybe the file which currently adds the messages in normal order
18:53:57 <Optimizer1> I can tweak and achieve reversed order
18:54:31 <Optimizer1> (remove the how from there )
18:56:45 <-- Optimizer1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.4a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
18:56:49 --> Optimizer has joined #instantbird
19:12:21 * Mook_as wonders how much work it would be to make http://sourceforge.net/u/pbrunschwig/tinyjsd/wiki/Home/ kinda work
19:12:57 <flo-retina> Optimizer: you want to look near http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/content/convbrowser.xml and http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/modules/imThemes.jsm
19:13:13 <Optimizer> flo-retina: thanks
19:13:54 <-- jb1 has quit (Ping timeout)
19:14:57 <-- chrisccoulson has quit (Quit: PM: Preparing frontal lobe for mem sleep)
19:19:10 --> jb has joined #instantbird
19:19:21 --> chrisccoulson has joined #instantbird
19:32:30 --> gerard-majax__ has joined #instantbird
20:01:34 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout)
20:10:15 --> Mic has joined #instantbird
20:10:16 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 
20:17:13 <-- chrisccoulson has quit (Quit: PM: Preparing frontal lobe for mem sleep)
20:20:07 --> chrisccoulson has joined #instantbird
20:31:39 <-- Optimizer has quit (Ping timeout)
20:34:08 --> Optimizer has joined #instantbird
20:41:51 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird
20:48:48 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Output/input error)
21:02:15 <-- rosonline has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
21:05:02 <-- Optimizer has quit (Ping timeout)
21:11:38 --> Optimizer has joined #instantbird
21:21:37 <-- Mnyromyr has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [SeaMonkey 1.1.19/2010030105])
21:27:18 --> Kaishi has joined #instantbird
21:30:39 --> jb has joined #instantbird
21:33:05 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout)
21:34:12 --> deltafalcon has joined #instantbird
21:38:18 <-- Optimizer has quit (Ping timeout)
21:40:46 * flo-retina really wants to improve debug logs
21:41:03 <flo-retina> I'm too often disconnected from gtalk, and it's "strange" that some messages are getting lost in the process...
21:41:32 --> Optimizer has joined #instantbird
21:45:28 <flo-retina> or it's possible that my internet connection is just shockingly unstable.
21:50:48 <-- Optimizer has quit (Ping timeout)
21:54:25 --> Optimizer has joined #instantbird
21:56:36 --> rosonline has joined #instantbird
22:01:48 <-- Tonnes has quit (Connection reset by peer)
22:02:59 --> Mic has joined #instantbird
22:02:59 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 
22:03:16 <-- clokep_work has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.4a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
22:09:02 <-- gerard-majax__ has quit (Ping timeout)
22:31:07 --> jb has joined #instantbird
22:33:37 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout)
22:35:03 <-- qlum has quit (Connection reset by peer)
22:35:10 <-- flo-retina has quit (Ping timeout)
22:36:06 --> qlum has joined #instantbird
22:39:25 --> flo-retina has joined #instantbird
22:39:25 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo-retina flo-retina 
22:39:34 <-- Optimizer has quit (Ping timeout)
22:40:50 <-- qlum has quit (Connection reset by peer)
22:41:18 <-- flo-retina has quit (Ping timeout)
22:43:06 --> Optimizer has joined #instantbird
22:43:46 --> Tonnes has joined #instantbird
22:44:34 <-- deltafalcon has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
22:44:46 <-- mconley has quit (Input/output error)
22:48:35 <-- Optimizer has quit (Ping timeout)
22:49:14 --> qlum has joined #instantbird
22:57:28 --> clokep has joined #instantbird
22:57:28 * ChanServ sets mode +o clokep 
22:59:42 --> Optimizer has joined #instantbird
23:02:39 --> flo-retina has joined #instantbird
23:02:40 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo-retina flo-retina 
23:09:01 <-- flo-retina has quit (Ping timeout)
23:14:59 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Output/input error)
23:31:39 --> jb has joined #instantbird
23:34:14 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout)