#instantbird log on 11 19 2012

All times are UTC.

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00:31:19 <flo> clokep: TEST-UNEXPECTED-FAIL | /home/cltbld/talos-slave/test/build/xpcshell/tests/chat/protocols/irc/test/test_tryNewNick.js | test failed (with xpcshell return code: 0), see following log:
00:31:23 <flo> TEST-UNEXPECTED-FAIL | /home/cltbld/talos-slave/test/build/xpcshell/head.js | TypeError: aAccount.normalize is not a function
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00:38:15 <flo> :(
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00:53:49 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/1a273f525619 - Florian Quèze - Fix xpcshell bustage from 735829d0bdc9 ('Bug 1751 - No feedback when the /nick command fails'), r=bustage fix.
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00:54:30 <instant-buildbot> build #353 of linux-onCommit is complete: Failure [failed shell_1]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-onCommit/builds/353  blamelist: aleth <aleth@instantbird.org>, Florian Qu?ze <florian@instantbird.org>
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00:58:35 <clokep> Oh...you apparently just fixed it.
00:58:56 <flo-retina> do you want to review that fix before I push it to comm-central?
00:59:04 <flo-retina> (and go to bed)
00:59:09 <clokep> It's essentially the same exact thing I just did. :)
00:59:17 <clokep> (Literally almost identical.)
00:59:23 <clokep> So sure, that fix is fine w/ me.
00:59:50 <flo-retina> I hesitated between the identity function and duplicating the content of http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/protocols/irc/irc.js#731
01:00:02 <flo-retina> or the content of that minus the handling of the aPrefixes parameter
01:00:22 <flo-retina> but the nicks in that test at all lowercase anyway, so...
01:00:29 <clokep> For what that test is testing, I think the identity is appropriate.
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01:01:45 <flo-retina> "do you want to review that fix before I push it to comm-central?" Apparently I asked that a few seconds *after* pushing to comm-central (I thought I had only typed |hg out|; probably tired :))
01:02:03 <clokep> :)
01:02:05 <clokep> Well it looks fine to me.
01:05:00 <clokep> flo-retina: Sorry it took so long to find a fix. :(
01:05:07 <clokep> I was doing a few other things.
01:05:34 <flo-retina> it's sad that we didn't notice before it reached comm-central :(
01:05:56 <clokep> Yeah, I should have ran the tests. :( Sorry.
01:06:29 <instant-buildbot> build #354 of linux-onCommit is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-onCommit/builds/354
01:07:03 <flo-retina> that's fast feedback! :)
01:07:10 <flo-retina> we should always have that...
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01:25:55 <flo-retina> clokep: I see lots of "Quit : Input/output error" these days, do we have ways to know what happened?
01:26:11 <clokep> flo-retina: We've never really known what happened w/ that. :(
01:26:21 <clokep> I've never been able to reproduce, at least not when I tried.
01:26:40 <flo-retina> the bug about a \n in an action message caused that behavior
01:28:00 <flo> having better debug logs may help with that :)
01:28:15 <clokep> Caused what behavior? More i/o erros?
01:28:39 <flo-retina> disconnecting with "I/O error" appearing for other people.
01:29:43 <clokep> I've always seen that.
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01:31:00 <flo-retina> it would at least be nice to know if we disconnected or if the server sent us an error
01:31:36 <clokep> Right. :-/ Better de bug logs might help, yes.
01:34:05 <flo-retina> Good evening
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02:41:34 <instant-buildbot> build #340 of win32-onCommit is complete: Failure [failed shell_1]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-onCommit/builds/340  blamelist: aleth <aleth@instantbird.org>, Florian Qu?ze <florian@instantbird.org>
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03:40:16 <instant-buildbot> build #686 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/686
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04:11:16 <instant-buildbot> build #323 of macosx-onCommit is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-onCommit/builds/323
04:15:29 <instant-buildbot> build #341 of win32-onCommit is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-onCommit/builds/341
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07:47:46 <instant-buildbot> build #777 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/777
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08:46:05 <instant-buildbot> build #686 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/686
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09:11:50 <Alda> Hello
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10:25:03 <Mic> Hello
10:26:33 <aleth> Hi
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10:46:46 <mpmc> Anyone having issues connecting to znc using instantbird nightly? It just refuses to connect, even though I've set the correct port/password. a different client has no issue.
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10:49:11 <flo-retina> mpmc: you need to set the password in a preference of the account, from the advanced configuration editor
10:50:08 <Mic> https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1767#c5
10:50:11 <instantbot> Bug 1767 maj, --, 1.3, clokep, VERI FIXED, New nightly can't auth with ZNC server
10:51:00 * flo-retina wonders if there's a way to detect that we are connecting to ZNC
10:53:24 * Mic expects that a leth's is filing a bug and attaching a patch within the next two minutes? ;)
10:53:56 <flo-retina> someone emailed me because he "just stumbled over an announcement of intstandbird"
10:54:04 <flo-retina> first time I see that crazy spelling
10:54:43 <aleth> integer standard bird, I suppose
10:54:51 <aleth> Mic: what bug?
10:55:07 <mpmc> flo-retina, Mic: I've just tried to do that, I still can't connect. Do the changes in the editor take affect instantly or is a restart required?
10:55:33 <flo-retina> mpmc: just reconnecting the account should be fine
10:55:54 <mpmc> flo-retina: I've tried that
10:55:57 <flo-retina> aleth: detecting ZNC when connecting to it
10:56:09 <flo-retina> mpmc: then you haven't set your password preference correctly ;)
10:56:14 * aleth doesnt know anything about bouncers
10:57:24 <mpmc> flo-retina: I've double checked the password and port is correct as I'm connected via another client without any issues.
10:57:56 <flo-retina> aleth: not even that they suck? ;)
10:58:31 <flo-retina> "I'm connected via another client without any issues." you already said that before
10:58:53 <aleth> mpmc: which about:config pref did you set?
10:59:00 <aleth> flo-retina: sssh ;)
10:59:06 <flo-retina> and I didn't mean that you typoed in the password (I would have hoped that you would have already checked that). I would rather expect a typo in the preference name.
10:59:37 <mpmc> aleth: messenger.account.account5.options.serverPassword =P
11:00:04 * flo-retina finds the "Your message to support-instantbird awaits moderator approval" message frustrating
11:00:05 <aleth> Any errors in the error console?
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11:00:28 <aleth> (or relevant-looking warnings)
11:00:35 <mpmc> Hmm!!
11:00:43 <flo-retina> I assume you have checked that messenger.account.account5 is your IRC account, right?
11:00:53 <mpmc> flo-retina: yup
11:01:11 <flo-retina> I hope that check wasn't by counting the accounts in the account manager :-/
11:01:31 <mpmc> No =P
11:02:11 <mpmc> I searched the config editor for account & looked for the key/value of the irc server.
11:02:18 <flo-retina> ok
11:02:46 <aleth> mpmc: If you can spot nothing in the error console, set the ...loglevel pref to 1 and reconnect. You can then see if the PASS command is sent when attempting to connect, and what the response is.
11:03:12 <mpmc> OK that was stupid!
11:03:26 <flo-retina> I wonder what the expected meaning of "=P" is. Is it a usual way to say "thanks for reading, and thinking about my issue"?
11:04:11 * aleth doesn't know that emoticon
11:04:36 <mpmc> flo-retina: Don't worry, I appreciate all the help =) 
11:04:39 <flo-retina> mpmc: "OK that was stupid!" so does it work now?
11:04:57 <mpmc> flo-retina: Want to guess what the problem was? xD
11:05:03 <flo-retina> mpmc: no!
11:05:10 <mpmc> flo-retina: haha!
11:05:14 <flo-retina> mpmc: but knowing what it was could help us help the next user faster
11:06:01 <mpmc> flo-retina: znc will only connect using the username:password as the password string.
11:06:18 <mpmc> I forgot that
11:06:20 <mpmc> Lol
11:06:30 <flo-retina> ok.
11:06:42 <flo-retina> back to "bouncers suck" then ;)
11:06:52 <mpmc> No comment.
11:07:05 <flo-retina> I'm mostly kidding
11:07:10 <flo-retina> I haven't tried them myself :)
11:07:20 <flo-retina> I just know they are a PITA for people working on the IRC code ;)
11:08:02 <mpmc> Cheers for the help though, I couldn't go back to pidgin now and I'm glad I don't have to now!
11:08:10 <flo-retina> :)
11:08:28 <flo-retina> while you are here, anything else frustrating you in Instantbird? :)
11:08:30 <aleth> It's that they "use" standard IRC commands like PASS for nonstandard bouncer-related things.
11:10:04 <mpmc> flo-retina: Nothing that I can think of although I have noticed in the windows client. the main window doesn't fade it just disappears when you close it.
11:10:34 <flo-retina> which window is the "main window"?
11:10:48 <mpmc> flo-retina: The contact list =P
11:11:26 <flo-retina> that's probably because it's hidden (to the system tray) instead of closed
11:11:38 <flo-retina> I guess Windows does the fading animation only when a window is actually closed
11:11:46 <flo-retina> that's the first time I hear about this though :)
11:12:15 <mpmc> Haha, I'm an unusual person so I notice small things.
11:12:41 <flo-retina> details are important :)
11:13:18 <flo-retina> we would probably get the behavior you expect if we actually closed the contact list window instead of hiding it
11:13:24 <flo-retina> that's what we do on Mac
11:14:00 <mpmc> When I used to Windows Live Messenger (before they wrecked it) When I closed the window to tray, it would fade, so I'd got used to seeing that.
11:14:08 <mpmc> used to use*
11:14:46 <flo-retina> if you think it's something we should fix, I would suggest filing a bug
11:14:59 <mpmc> I'm not usually this bad at typing, I think my medication is messing with me again. Haha.
11:15:27 <mpmc> flo-retina: No it's not a bug at all, and I don't consider it one, just something I noticed.
11:15:28 <flo-retina> (no promise that we will get to it soon, but actually closing the window also has memory usage benefits...)
11:16:12 <flo-retina> mpmc: a bug is usually something that behaves differently than the user would expect/want. Not necessarily something that's broken.
11:17:05 <mpmc> For some reason I prefer the nightly logo to the release logo in the client, I assume that's only available to the nightly builds?
11:17:18 <flo-retina> right :)
11:17:34 <flo-retina> have you seen the halloween logo? That's my favorite :-D
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11:17:52 <mpmc> I haven't unfortunately. 
11:17:59 <flo-retina> maybe next year :)
11:18:05 <flo-retina> (it's only in nightlies, 2 days per year)
11:18:56 <mpmc> The only thing missing for me with instantbird is file transfer, I know not many use the feature these days but it's useful!
11:19:26 * flo-retina lols @ EionRobb :)
11:20:03 <flo-retina> mpmc: for the context EionRobb is a Pidgin plugin developer who is often here, and trolls every week about the lack of file transfer in Instantbird ;).
11:20:19 <mpmc> rofl
11:23:12 * clokep has never seen a "fading" animation in Windows.
11:23:53 <flo-retina> clokep: with some options aero has some window closing animation
11:24:09 <clokep> flo-retina: There's no way to know what is being connected to before the connection occurs.
11:24:28 <flo-retina> clokep: no kind of hello message that would contain "ZNC"?
11:24:31 <clokep> flo-retina: I mean my window shrinks and flies to the taskbar.
11:24:40 <clokep> flo-retina: Nothing before you connect.
11:24:43 <mpmc> add a UI option check box [x] Bouncer?
11:25:06 <clokep> No.
11:25:10 <flo-retina> mpmc: adding more non-sense options to the UI is what we try hard to avoid ;)
11:25:28 <mpmc> flo-retina: Not even in the advanced options? =P
11:25:40 <flo-retina> mpmc: you mean the advanced configuration editor? :-P
11:25:57 <mpmc> No, when you connect to irc using the wizard =P
11:26:42 <clokep> No.
11:26:55 <clokep> Even so that wouldn't mean anything, different bouncers behave entirely differently.
11:27:03 <mpmc> Just a suggestion!
11:27:21 <mpmc> clokep: Never thought about that! good point.
11:28:31 <flo-retina> clokep: that "Instantbird-linux(Kubuntu12.04) installation problems" message is 2 days old? :(
11:28:44 <clokep> flo-retina: lists.mozilla.org has been down for two days.
11:29:02 <flo-retina> and now my reply awaits moderator approval :(
11:29:45 <clokep> flo-retina: You need to stop using different email addresses.
11:30:01 <flo-retina> florian @ib.org is my standard ib address
11:30:24 <clokep> All other emails you've done to the list have been flo@, but I think I registered your f.queze one.
11:30:25 <flo-retina> but I usually reply with the address that was used to send the message to me (flo @ib.org in the previous case)
11:31:08 <clokep> I added that to the auto-accept filter though.
11:31:31 <flo-retina> so how many auto-accepted addresses do I have now? :)
11:34:56 <clokep> 3, I think.
11:37:35 <flo-retina> clokep: is the content of the "Your message to support-instantbird awaits moderator approval" message something we can control? I find it extremely unfriendly as a first message received from us by someone who contacts us.
11:38:55 <mpmc> It's not unfriendly just evil!
11:39:30 <clokep> flo-retina: I don't see a way, but I would be surprised there's like a million options.
11:44:55 <clokep> Hmm...I don't think you can change it.
11:48:57 <clokep> Also about the bouncer stuff, FWIW I think the next version of ZNC supports SASL too.
11:49:53 <flo-retina> there seems to be an sasl module for znc, but it didn't seem enabled by default
11:50:15 <clokep> You also have to make sure it's for authentication to it, not from it to networks. :)
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11:52:29 <instantbot> New Core - IRC bug 1810 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
11:52:31 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1810 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Filter spaces from IRC nick-/account names
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11:55:17 <flo-retina> clokep: that new message from "José" is even more annoying that the previous ones :(
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12:00:18 <clokep> flo-retina: :(
12:01:05 <clokep> flo-retina: I don't think he gets it that we WILL NOT publish change logs for nightly builds. :(
12:03:07 <clokep> Mic: Do we have a way of deciding if fields are correct or not before the account is made?
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12:19:21 <Mic> aleth: thanks for looking at my problem in bug 1511, I think I'm on the right track now. It fails in XMPP code.
12:19:24 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1511 nor, --, ---, benediktp, ASSI, Possible to add duplicate accounts
12:19:45 <Mic> I assumed it was always the case but that was only because I had an xmpp-derived account in every of my test profiles.
12:20:32 <aleth> Mic: Great :)
12:21:11 <aleth> Btw a total nit, but I noticed the error message in the account wizard is in black. Maybe it should be in dark red like the other account manager errors?
12:21:40 <Mic> File a bug? :P
12:21:46 <aleth> But then I don't think that error message was part of your patch right?
12:22:01 <aleth> It's just that it never got used...
12:22:42 <aleth> not even for libpurple.
12:26:55 <flo-retina> clokep: "I don't think he gets it that we WILL NOT publish change logs for nightly builds." I don't think he gets that if we don't give the expected answer, it may not be because he needs to rephrase the question ;).
12:27:55 <flo-retina> aleth: "13:22:06 - aleth: […] it never got used...[...] not even for libpurple." what makes you think that?
12:29:10 <aleth> Wasn't it just set to return false? But I didn't look into it really, maybe that was just for js protos.
12:29:26 <flo-retina> jsProtoHelper returned false
12:29:38 <flo-retina> and had a FIXME next to that
12:30:19 <aleth> I kind of assumed libpurple never had that functionality in the first place.
12:30:30 <aleth> Without thinking too much ;)
12:31:21 <aleth> Why would anyone want changelogs for nightlies when there is the hg shortlog? :-S
12:33:03 <flo-retina> "Your message to support-instantbird awaits moderator approval" again...
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12:48:59 <flo-retina> Mic: re bug 1810, it's not clear to me if you mean that the UI should filter out spaces before creating the account, or if you mean that the irc prpl should filter out spaces instead of complaining that the nick is invalid
12:49:02 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1810 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Filter spaces from IRC nick-/account names
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13:02:12 <Mic> flo-retina: can the protocol (irc) change the name of the account that is being created? The UI removing spaces from all account names might be unwanted for some protocols?
13:04:02 <clokep_work> flo-retina: I don't know why your account keeps going into moderation.
13:05:07 <clokep_work> I don't think we'd want to automatically remove spaces anywhere...
13:05:36 <aleth> We could throw an error, but that would only be at the connection stage.
13:05:43 <aleth> We already do this for illegal nicknames.
13:06:36 <aleth> I mean, that's what happens here, it just reports the wrong nick when doing so.
13:08:09 <clokep_work> I think what Mic was getting at (but as flo-retina said it is unclear) is that we shouldn't create accounts with invalid names?
13:14:34 <aleth> You mean provide a list of allowed characters to the account wizard?
13:15:05 <aleth> (well, disallowed characters, which would make more sense)
13:15:58 <aleth> You'd have to add an isValidUsername() to the interface I guess
13:16:33 <aleth> But what if it's server-specific...
13:16:54 <clokep_work> aleth: You wouldn't add a list of characters, you would add a function to the protocol.
13:17:15 <clokep_work> aleth: If it is server specific then you're screwed, but you can still filter it down somewhat.
13:17:23 <clokep_work> I think libpurple supports this functionality btw.
13:17:48 <aleth> So there already is an isValidUsername() somewhere?
13:25:59 <clokep_work> aleth: I don't know, I just thought Pidgin would reject invalid usernames, but I'm unsure.
13:26:06 <clokep_work> I Just vaguelly recall that from reading some bugs.
13:29:14 <clokep_work> Doesn't seem that way from http://lxr.instantbird.org/pidgin2.6.3/source/pidgin/gtkaccount.c#1219 though.
13:31:25 <aleth> Unless they simply disallow spaces etc in usernames for all protocols
13:31:56 * clokep_work wasn't talking about just spaces...
13:34:08 <aleth> Sure, I was just wondering if something simple like that might have given you the impression they were doing something more intricate a long time ago...
13:36:34 <clokep_work> No.
13:37:10 <aleth> OK :D
13:38:15 <aleth> It's happened to me with pidgin...
13:38:53 <clokep_work> aleth: https://developer.pidgin.im/ticket/13500 is what I was thinking of.
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13:41:34 <aleth> If it's only used here http://hg.pidgin.im/pidgin/main/file/e1bb0dab1b9c/libpurple/protocols/oscar/oscar.c#l736 then that's also only on connection I think
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13:43:34 <deOmega> good morning. is there an easier way to update  the cleanlesssharp addon?
13:43:46 <deOmega> the problems i am having
13:44:12 <deOmega> if i update the install.rdf file and try to update it, it says that version already exists
13:44:29 <deOmega> and it does not seem to make sense to  change teh version number just because of the rdf change
13:44:44 <aleth> all you have to do is go to your developer page on AIO, click on the latest version, and change the maxversion in the dropdown
13:44:56 <aleth> Then save changes.
13:45:03 <aleth> No need to reupload the add-on.
13:45:25 <deOmega> oh wow... thank you so much.   Let me check that out
13:47:06 <deOmega> WOW!
13:47:40 <deOmega> now, THAT makes sense to have teh incremental updates limitation, IF this is THAT simple
13:47:49 <aleth> IF you want to upload a new file, then you have to change the version number.
13:48:08 <deOmega> I had been working on this for about 30 mins now trying to figure it out... i should have asked sooner :)
13:48:40 <aleth> np
13:49:01 <deOmega> aleth: Tremendous thanks to you indeed.  have a fantastic day.
13:49:42 <aleth> I was thinking the other day we should consider emailing all the add-on authors on release of a new IB version, pointing this out... we have so many functioning add-ons that are never "bumped"
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14:22:00 <clokep_work> aleth: Yes, but I don't know how easy it is to get all those addresses.
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14:24:17 <aleth> clokep_work: I'm not even sure you need a valid email to post an add-on
14:24:21 <aleth> clokep_work: If you have a chance sometime, maybe bump at least the recommended add-ons?
14:25:05 <clokep_work> aleth: Aren't most of them bumped? (Aren't most of them from flo-retina or me, we both bumped ours, I think.)
14:25:49 <aleth> Some are, some aren't
14:26:45 <clokep_work> OK.
14:27:16 <clokep_work> I'm also off Wed - Fri this week, so I should have some free time. ;)
14:27:30 <aleth> Thanksgiving? ;)
14:27:53 <clokep_work> Yup!
14:29:45 * clokep_work needs to find something to work on for Instantbird... ;)
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14:34:38 <dew> me too clokep_work :)
14:34:52 <dew> I must say this approach to irc is very sensible
14:34:56 <dew> I like it :D
14:35:00 <clokep_work> "this approach"?
14:35:07 <clokep_work> (I agree FWIW. ;))
14:35:30 <dew> well the tab complete based on who highlighted you
14:35:38 <dew> that's pretty nifty
14:35:51 <clokep_work> :(
14:35:55 * clokep_work can't take credit for that...
14:40:26 <clokep_work> But I'm glad you like it! :-D
14:40:49 <dew> yes I want to contribute something :(
14:42:25 <clokep_work> Find something you're interested in improving and work at it. :)
14:43:03 <clokep_work> flo-retina: If I were to look at updating to m-c (well I assume we'd want to do it a version at a time), but we can just rm the ppc patches, right?
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14:49:17 <flo-retina> clokep_work: you can just rm the ppc patches, right.
14:49:34 <flo-retina> clokep_work: we don't want to do that until we have replaced the mac buildbot slave.
14:49:42 <flo-retina> clokep_work: except if we do it in a branch that isn't used for nightlies
14:50:23 * flo-retina was in a long meeting (not finished actually, just in a break right now) and has a lot of scrollback to catch up with
14:51:39 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Yeah, but I could do the patches. :)
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17:39:06 <clokep_work> flo-retina: http://blog.instantbird.org/2012/11/instantbird-1-3-released/#comments
17:39:18 <clokep_work> " Norton and Symantec.cloud detect Instantbird 1.3 setup detect as infected with "Suspicious.Cloud.7.F". Check please!!"
17:41:50 <flo-retina> clokep_work: IRC bouncers are wonderful pieces of software compared to antivirus checkers ;)
17:42:35 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Haha.
17:44:39 * clokep_work doesn't know how to reply to that. :-S
17:45:05 <flo-retina> Norton is suspiction, get ubuntu :-P
17:45:13 <flo-retina> *suspicious
17:45:44 <flo-retina> http://community.norton.com/t5/Norton-Internet-Security-Norton/Suspicious-Cloud-7-F-Visual-Studio/td-p/595032 seems related
17:47:31 <flo-retina> https://submit.symantec.com/false_positive/ hmm
17:47:40 <clokep_work> My corporate software blocked it because it has been "seen by less than 5 users" WTF.
17:47:45 <clokep_work> The code is "Reputation".
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17:56:27 <flo-retina> clokep_work: "flo-retina: I don't know why your account keeps going into moderation." I think it's not "my account" but "emails sent to contact @ib.org rather than to the list.mozilla.org address".
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18:01:32 <flo-retina> aleth, clokep_work: fwiw, adding a function to libpurple prpls to confirm that a username seems valid before creating an account has been discussed several time between Pidgin developers. I can't remember if the fix ever went in (and if prpls actually use it)
18:06:17 <flo-retina> dew: if you want to contribute something to Instantbird, I'm sure we can help you find something useful to do :)
18:09:12 <aleth> Posting build errors on twitter seems... odd https://twitter.com/Mte90Net/status/270540054135447552
18:11:09 <aleth> Is it too hard to find #instantbird? :-/
18:12:46 <flo-retina> aleth: you mean the twitter hash tag?
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18:28:20 <aleth> No, the channel
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18:53:01 <clokep_work> aleth: People seem to like to use Twitter for things it is awful at.
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18:57:12 <clokep_work> CONFIRMATION Your submission has been sent Mon Nov 19 10:56:54 PST 2012. To make another submission, click here. Sincerely, Symantec Security Response
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19:17:06 <flo-retina> aleth: I was kidding ;).
19:17:28 <flo-retina> clokep_work: :)
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19:33:08 <beelze> Hello. Seems here I can ask about Instantbird?
19:34:27 <flo-retina> hello
19:35:46 <flo-retina> beelze: what's your question(s)? :-)
19:36:58 <beelze> At first, sorry for my English ) For some time I unsuccessfully looking for a good IM-client for Linux. Seems that Instantbird is my last hope. 
19:39:08 * flo-retina wonders if we could have an irc bot that would welcome by private messages each nick coming here for the first time
19:39:34 <beelze> I used IM in my work, so some features is very important for me. I have downloaded Instanbird and took quick look but some questions left unanswered
19:44:33 <flo-retina> beelze: ask your question please.
19:48:56 <beelze> well. Is here "Global Log" option? Where I can search through all histories?
19:52:38 <beelze> ...sometimes I need to find a conversation but I don't know whose history is to look
19:53:00 <flo-retina> unfortunately no :(
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19:53:09 <flo-retina> it's something we would like to do in the future, but it's a lot of work
19:53:44 <flo-retina> Thunderbird's chat feature supports global search though, so you may be interested in trying it.
19:54:26 <beelze> another thing is a "filtered", not only "searcheable" history - like one in Miranda
19:56:44 <flo-retina> I've never used Miranda so that doesn't ring a bell to me
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19:58:36 <beelze> well. I talk about viewing history like "table-browsing" where I can not only find records but filter for some simple criteria
20:01:09 <flo-retina> that sounds like what Thunderbird does
20:02:41 <beelze> Is Thunderbird a multi-protocol IM-client? )
20:03:28 <flo-retina> IRC, XMPP (including Google Talk and Facebook), Twitter
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20:06:40 <beelze> maybe. but I looking for a more specific software like pidgin, qutim, miranda, QIP - with support for many ither protocols 
20:07:22 <flo-retina> which protocols do you need?
20:08:42 <beelze> including ICQ/MRIM, Skype(chat), MSN
20:09:19 <beelze> thoung MSN is not so important as previous
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20:10:32 <beelze> XMPP certainly
20:10:33 <flo-retina> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/additional-chat-protocols/ can help you for some protocols
20:10:39 <flo-retina> but not skype
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20:13:22 <beelze> mmm... Can you explain me relations between some thing called "Thunderbird Chat" and Instantbird?
20:14:14 <flo-retina> the back-end code is the same, and the people who work/worked on it are more or less the same ;)
20:16:02 <beelze> I've tried to use Thunderbird as email-client, but for some reasons I've choosed another email-client so my experience is small
20:17:36 <clokep_work> What is MRIM?
20:19:06 <beelze> I like Instantbird (as far as I able to observe) as a more user-friendly and professional-looked client than pidgin and qutim
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20:20:13 <beelze> even think about making an ebuild for upstream )
20:20:36 <beelze> (Gentoo upstream)
20:23:00 <clokep_work> That could be good. :)
20:24:01 <clokep_work> beelze: Btw I don't know of any multiprotocol IM clients (besides Trillian) that support Skype so...
20:24:30 <beelze> Miranda have a chat Skype plugin
20:24:45 <clokep_work> I've never used Miranda.
20:25:24 <beelze> MRIM as MailRu Instant Messaging (not all ICQ protocol implementations works flawlessly with it)
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20:26:37 <beelze> skype chat can be good addition but it not _very_ important as I think, though
20:28:19 <clokep_work> Ah, MailRu asctually has documentation about their protocol (in Russian), but IIRC it seemed extremely straight forward...someone should just make a protocol for that. ;)
20:28:24 <clokep_work> beelze: Skype is really hard to integrate w/.
20:28:25 <beelze> another feature I need is a "contact search" thru _all_ contacts (hidden, blocked and so on)
20:29:11 <beelze> for some part in "identification data" - nick, uin, email
20:30:50 <clokep_work> Sure, we'd like it if you could filter people.
20:31:50 <beelze> maybe some screenshots can help (if my explanations are poor)
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20:35:29 <clokep_work> beelze: I think most of what you've said has bugs filed already...
20:36:28 <aleth> beelze: would you like to help add these features?
20:37:44 <beelze> I'm a DB programmer (mostly) - how can I help?
20:39:33 * clokep_work removes evals from code...
20:40:17 <beelze> I can write an ebuild, be a tester, make feature requests but surely I surely knowing nothing about programming platform you're using
20:41:16 <clokep_work> yes. ;)
20:41:22 <clokep_work> s/yes/yet/
20:41:29 <clokep_work> All of those would be helpful though!
20:41:45 <aleth> For the features you suggest, our existing code is just Javascript. The contact list is stored in a sql database
20:42:00 <beelze> by the way, I've run a precompiled version (linux) but screen fonts was fuzzy and hard to read. Any thoughts?
20:42:08 <aleth> Maybe the learning curve isn't as steep as you assume ;)
20:42:34 <aleth> beelze: If you're using 64bit Linux, the problem is likely that our builds are 32bit
20:43:15 <beelze> I've started from assembler in early 90's - so I think I know enough about learning curves )
20:44:35 <aleth> And the 32bit compatibility libraries running those relies upon sometimes have theming issues
20:45:04 <beelze> well, I'll try to build from sources 
20:45:55 <aleth> If you'd like to browse our code, this is also a useful tool http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/
20:46:17 <beelze> Javascript, I'm very surprised :)
20:48:36 <aleth> I guess you've seen the wiki https://wiki.instantbird.org/Main_Page
20:50:53 <aleth> And the mdn https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/
20:51:04 <beelze> generally, I tried to take a quick look about functionality at first (I've tried 4+ linux IM clients and each one disappointed me more than previous) :)
20:51:49 <aleth> Sure, you have to pick one whose philosophy fits yours reasonably well ;)
20:52:20 <beelze> so I'm here :) 
20:53:05 <beelze> for instance - using pidgin (libpurple) I was very surprised by the way it processing message deliverance.
20:53:21 <aleth> A lot of our protocols are also provided by libpurple
20:53:47 <aleth> We only have our own implementations for some (XMPP, IRC, twitter).
20:54:38 <beelze> in XMPP and ICQ seems pidgin ignores not only "client acknowledgement" concept but "server acknowledgement" too
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20:57:04 <beelze> I've pulled out my ethernet cable and tried to send messages - but (surprise!) messages seems "sent". Only after 2+ minutes my buddy turned offline (without any notifications)
20:58:20 <beelze> as a result - some message delivered, some get lost. Not a very good result undeed
21:01:38 <beelze> does libpurple support for acknowlegements is broken some way - I don't know, but I always need to know whether message was delivered or not
21:02:27 <beelze> (delivered to client, if protocol/remote client support it)
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21:02:53 <aleth> Yes, it's not always possible if disconnection is only discovered through a timeout
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21:05:00 <flo-retina> beelze: what makes you think that these protocols support it?
21:05:39 <beelze> ICQ _do_ support this; XMPP have related XEP too
21:06:06 <flo-retina> XMPP has XEP for everything. If they aren't implemented they are useless though ;).
21:08:25 <flo-retina> and I've never used ICQ :)
21:08:33 <beelze> you mean "widely implemented"?
21:09:34 <flo-retina> beelze: I didn't mean "widely". But they usually need to be implemented by at least both your client and your server, or your client and your contact's client.
21:09:35 <beelze> ICQ is IM-protocol, we are discussing IM-client... maybe I missed something? :)
21:10:00 <aleth> beelze: Are you running your own server?
21:10:07 <flo-retina> I know what ICQ is. I just haven't used it, so I don't know what features it has compared to other IM protocols ;)
21:12:20 <beelze> servers? I'm afraid I do not quite understand the question. 
21:12:54 <beelze> (plz consider my bad english)
21:13:22 <aleth> As flo said, it's usually not much good for the client to support a feature if the server doesn't
21:13:26 <flo-retina> beelze: I didn't understand either why aleth cared about whether you have your own server, so it may not be only a language issue ;)
21:13:50 <flo-retina> aleth: in the xmpp case, it can be useful if both clients handle the feature
21:14:16 <flo-retina> (XMPP servers are usually OK with relaying information they don't understand)
21:14:23 <flo-retina> (with facebook being an obvious exception...)
21:14:24 <aleth> That's convenient
21:16:02 <flo-retina> but relying on the client on the other side supporting something can be risky (what if for some reason the conversation continues from my android device instead of from my usual desktop client?)
21:17:35 <beelze> anyway, client acknowledgement is good, but lacking server deliverance is fatal I think. Pidgin is bad in it :)
21:19:27 <flo-retina> beelze: I think in lots of cases the server only tells us if it fails to deliver a message. When everything went fine, it doesn't send us any feedback. So if the connection is suddenly broken, we can only assume that the messages we sent have arrived...
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21:26:22 <beelze> I have little doubts. socket-level operations will surely fail if underlaying physical link is disconected
21:27:06 <LiquidRain> have there been any reports of IRC connectivity issues with 1.3?
21:27:17 <LiquidRain> I just tried an upgrade but I can't connect to my ZNC (IRC bouncer) server.
21:27:30 <LiquidRain> Downgraded to 1.2 and it started working again.
21:27:42 <aleth> LiquidRain: You need to add an about:config pref, see here https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1767#c5
21:27:45 <instantbot> Bug 1767 maj, --, 1.3, clokep, VERI FIXED, New nightly can't auth with ZNC server
21:28:09 <aleth> It's because ZNC requires a PASS command so you can login to it (rather than the IRC server)
21:28:14 <LiquidRain> thanks aleth
21:28:23 <flo-retina> beelze: that's right.
21:28:59 <flo-retina> beelze: before we added support for the ping XEP, our JavaScript implementation of XMPP noticed it was disconnected only when we attempted to send something
21:30:15 <flo-retina> aleth, clokep_work: do you think we should blog about that?
21:30:32 <LiquidRain> aleth: Read the bug report but there doesn't seem to be a note - will this be rectified in a 1.3.1 sort of release coming soon or a 1.4?
21:30:38 <flo-retina> "that" being "how to make Instantbird 1.3 connect to a ZNC bouncer?"
21:30:54 <flo-retina> LiquidRain: things work as intended. It's ZNC that sucks.
21:31:07 <LiquidRain> Hm.  Never had any issue with any other client.  Even Mibbit works with ZNC auth.
21:31:17 <flo-retina> LiquidRain: and aleth specifically pointed you to the comment 5 that gives the work-around
21:31:38 <LiquidRain> Yes, it does give me the workaround, and I will use it. :)
21:31:40 <aleth> LiquidRain: Just go to Preferences -> Advanced and add your server password
21:31:55 <flo-retina> LiquidRain: I didn't say that ZNC's behavior has changed. Just that it sucks ;).
21:31:58 <aleth> It's not our fault ZNC uses the nickserv auth mechanism to log into itself ;)
21:32:21 <flo-retina> aleth: to be fair, "PASS" is the "server password", not the nickserv password
21:32:22 <LiquidRain> Oh, so in a nightly there'll be a "server password" option?
21:32:28 <clokep_work> flo-retina, aleth: Maybe, it should probably be added to the FAQ.
21:32:30 <flo-retina> LiquidRain: go read that bug report again
21:32:58 <LiquidRain> Ah, clokep_work already did it.
21:33:05 <flo-retina> :'(
21:33:06 <clokep_work> LiquidRain: It is already in 1.3, it is not in a nighly.
21:33:17 <clokep_work> (Well it is in the nightlies too, I guess. But not only in them!)
21:33:21 <clokep_work> flo-retina: ?
21:33:23 <LiquidRain> Er, rather, the config exposes the ability to set the server password but there's no UI for it.
21:33:33 <clokep_work> LiquidRain: Yes, that's on purpose.
21:33:41 <LiquidRain> Ah.
21:33:41 <aleth> flo-retina: Right, that was a bit misleading. It's the password in our account options that is the (nickserv) auth password
21:33:45 <flo-retina> clokep_work: just tired of people making crazy assumptions while misreading things ;)
21:33:52 <LiquidRain> Well let me go upgrade to 1.3 again and see what happens
21:33:58 <aleth> LiquidRain: The password in the UI is the password for the nick authentification
21:34:58 * aleth renames bug
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21:35:58 <clokep_work> LiquidRain: Sure most clients will connect, but most clients don't attempt to smartly talk to NickServ like we do. They force you to script random garbage.
21:36:04 <clokep_work> aleth: I really don't think we need to rename that...
21:36:25 <clokep_work> But OK.
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21:36:37 <aleth> clokep_work: I only removed the "new nightly" part since it seems it was misleading
21:37:11 <clokep_work> aleth: OK.
21:37:14 <LiquidRain> well, that did the trick, though I don't understand why it can't be a field under the Advanced section.
21:37:17 <clokep_work> 4:35:14 PM - […] http://www.instantbird.com).
21:37:17 <clokep_work> 4:35:58 PM - clokep_work: LiquidRain: Sure most clients will connect, but most clients don't attempt to smartly talk to NickServ like we do. They force you to script random garbage.
21:37:19 <flo-retina> it definitely way misleading
21:37:32 <clokep_work> LiquidRain: Because most people won't need or want it.
21:37:36 <clokep_work> And it will be confusing to them.
21:37:41 <flo-retina> clokep_work: can we release a ZNC-compatibility add-on? :-D
21:37:52 <flo-retina> or make a ZNC-IRC prpl? XD
21:37:59 <clokep_work> Hah.
21:38:29 <flo-retina> clokep_work: well, really, I mean "anything that will cause ZNC users to be able to figure things out without bugging us to add something in the way of everybody else" ;)
21:38:42 <LiquidRain> I guess the assumption might be that anyone with a ZNC server wouldn't be afraid of about:config
21:38:47 <flo-retina> there seems to be more znc users than we thought
21:38:51 <flo-retina> LiquidRain: it is!
21:38:53 <aleth> LiquidRain: That was kind of the assumption, yes
21:39:13 <flo-retina> LiquidRain: the issue is that they all come here to ask the same question before figuring it out ;).
21:39:16 <LiquidRain> Doesn't change that it's annoying and breaks existing functionality though. :)
21:39:37 <flo-retina> LiquidRain: we all agree that ZNC is annoying (or do we? :-D).
21:39:43 <aleth> LiquidRain: As clokep_work mentioned, it's the price of supporting auth/nickserv better
21:39:43 <LiquidRain> ZNC is better than bip
21:39:58 <LiquidRain> Yeah, which is something ZNC handles for me. :)
21:40:01 <aleth> Maybe we should put it in the FAQ though
21:40:12 <flo-retina> aleth: yes, it should go in the FAQ
21:40:49 <flo-retina> but if we could find something easier to explain in the FAQ than messing with about:config, I would be all for it
21:41:02 <beelze> flo-retina: I think enough my annoying questions for today. Tomorrow I'll write an ebuild and is likely to come back with more questions
21:41:06 <Mook_as> Hmm. I guess since you need the pass to connect, it's not possible to detect znc-ness and set a flag on the account so it works the next time.
21:41:15 <flo-retina> beelze: ok :)
21:41:28 <flo-retina> beelze: feel free to come whenever you want with as many questions as you want :)
21:41:54 <flo-retina> beelze: and also feel free to come even if you don't have any question and just want to listen / see how we discuss things :)
21:42:07 <aleth> Mook_as: There's no way for us to detect we are connecting to ZNC
21:42:38 <flo-retina> aleth: is there nothing we can detect in the failure pattern?
21:42:48 <Mook_as> right, I meant, _after_ the first failure. but yeah, I guess if you can't connect you can't look at the numeric response that tells you the server version...
21:42:50 <flo-retina> aleth: what happens after we don't send the PASS?
21:43:10 <beelze> flo-retina: you're very kind. Maybe I'll help to make Instantbird even better :)
21:43:28 <aleth> flo-retina: hmm, maybe LiquidRain can give us a log ;)
21:43:33 <clokep_work> flo-retina: I'm not sure exactly. Maybe LiquidRain can give us a log.
21:43:39 <aleth> There may be something...
21:43:49 <flo-retina> beelze: thanks! We all have somewhat different needs and use cases, so the more people we have who take care of improving it for themselves, the better it becomes for everybody :)
21:43:51 <LiquidRain> ZNC server side, or Instantbird client side?
21:44:03 <LiquidRain> From IB it looks like it's infinitely stuck on "Connecting"
21:44:06 <LiquidRain> ZNC doesn't terminate the connection
21:44:08 <clokep_work> LiquidRain: Instantbird side. It gets both what we send and what we receive.
21:44:48 <clokep_work> An alternative might be to set up http://wiki.znc.in/Saslauth ?
21:44:49 <beelze> flo-retina: linux is in desperate need for decent IM-client (in official repos) :D 
21:44:50 <aleth> LiquidRain: IF you are willing, set the ...loglevel pref in about:config to 1 and then reconnect (without the server password pref set)
21:44:53 <flo-retina> man, I'm really tired of explaining how one can make a debug log :(
21:45:05 <flo-retina> beelze: other OSes too!
21:45:15 <LiquidRain> flo-retina: I just tried to find how to do that and couldn't come up with a page on it before aleth told me how
21:45:18 <LiquidRain> maybe put it in the IRC topic?
21:45:24 <LiquidRain> I looked there to no avail
21:45:36 <flo-retina> LiquidRain: do you mean "get a debug log"?
21:45:36 <aleth> LiquidRain: we are hoping to improve it
21:45:57 <flo-retina> LiquidRain: making that dramatically easier is very high on my personal todo list ;).
21:46:15 * clokep_work doesn't think that is topic worthy...
21:46:21 <clokep_work> It should be on the wiki, most likely.
21:46:23 <LiquidRain> does it pop up in a file or.... nope there it is in the error console
21:46:26 <clokep_work> I think we have a page about filing good bugs.
21:46:29 <flo-retina> LiquidRain: if I could make "Pastebin a debug log of the last connection failure" a single click action, I would be very happy ;)
21:46:46 <LiquidRain> Okay, going to shut down this account to reduce the noise, brb.
21:46:50 <beelze> flo-retina: Linux programmers often think that UI is not an very important part
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21:47:06 * clokep_work is going home.
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21:47:18 <flo-retina> beelze: I don't want to start a troll about linux programmers :).
21:47:30 <flo-retina> beelze: but Windows programmers tend to put buttons everywhere ;).
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21:47:58 <Mook_as> use KDE, get the best of both worlds - not very important buttons everywhere ;)
21:48:09 <flo-retina> lol
21:48:13 <LiquidRain> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/103757
21:48:33 <LiquidRain> Is that all you need?
21:48:50 <aleth> haha
21:48:59 <flo-retina> is irc.znc.in the name of the server you are connecting to?
21:49:00 <aleth> That does kind of fit.
21:49:04 <LiquidRain> No, flo
21:49:24 <aleth> LiquidRain: Hey, that looks interesting 
21:49:53 <aleth> Thanks for the log, maybe we can just handle that
21:50:04 <LiquidRain> do you want a full dump or is that 1 line good enough?
21:50:22 <LiquidRain> actually let me copy/paste what comes before so you know where it happens
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21:50:27 <aleth> I think flo-retina was asking whether the irc.znc.in was hardcoded in znc
21:50:41 <aleth> LiquidRain: Could you file a bug and attach it there?
21:51:02 <flo-retina> LiquidRain: I think that 1 line is already useful, but more context would be great!
21:51:02 <LiquidRain> Is the best way really to go message-by-message in the error console?
21:51:15 <flo-retina> LiquidRain: there's unfortunately no other way, so yes it's the best
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21:51:21 <LiquidRain> Dang.  Okay.  Well it's not too long.
21:51:53 <beelze> flo-retina: troll? no, I just can't do my work with pidgin & Co
21:52:55 <flo-retina> it surprises me that it seems you were able to use miranda though ;)
21:53:00 <LiquidRain> Attach it to the existing bug report, or?
21:53:08 <aleth> LiquidRain: No, please file a new one 
21:53:11 <LiquidRain> OK
21:53:51 <aleth> LiquidRain: If we can find a way to avoid people having to set a pref, that would be cool
21:54:35 <aleth> Thanks for your help
21:54:58 <LiquidRain> np
21:56:04 <LiquidRain> Core?
21:56:11 <aleth> Core-IRC, yes
21:56:28 <aleth> But we can always adjust those later.
21:58:36 <instantbot> New Core - IRC bug 1811 filed by rmcauley@gmail.com.
21:58:38 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1811 min, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, IRC password does not work with ZNC/server password auth
21:58:45 <LiquidRain> Done
22:00:31 <aleth> Can you think of a situation where you'd need a separate password (later) to the one you use for ZNC auth?
22:01:12 <LiquidRain> If ZNC is not configured to handle NickServ auth, then yes.
22:01:27 <LiquidRain> however I would imagine most ZNC users are competent enough to config ZNC to do that for them
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22:03:45 <LiquidRain> I think it's probably a better idea to have it not try to do nickserv for us after that
22:04:03 <LiquidRain> In my case my ZNC password is different from my Nickserv password
22:04:12 <aleth> That's good to know
22:04:29 <LiquidRain> (and ZNC already has me authorized under my nick before I even connect using IB)
22:04:40 <flo-retina> aleth: I think we should just try to preserve backward compatibility for people who had IRC accounts configured to connect to ZNC that worked in 1.2
22:05:04 <aleth> The problem for us is that there are lots of different auth mechanisms and lots of different servers, and we want to come up with a sequence that "just works" for all...
22:09:48 <flo-retina> aleth: isn't |:irc.znc.in CAP unknown-nick LS :userhost-in-names multi-prefix| also interesting?
22:11:13 <flo-retina> although ":irc.znc.in NOTICE AUTH :*** You need to send your password. Try /quote PASS <username>:<password>" really looks like something we should just handle
22:12:18 <aleth> flo-retina: No, that's just the initial CAP command sqeucne
22:12:22 <flo-retina> LiquidRain: thanks for filing the bug and for the debug log! Sorry for my trolling about ZNC before.
22:12:39 <LiquidRain> haha no worries. :)
22:12:56 <flo-retina> :)
22:13:14 <LiquidRain> it's frustrating to field annoying problems and IRC auth is an annoying problem
22:14:48 <aleth> LiquidRain: IRC just has a large number of permutations for everything ;)
22:14:59 <flo-retina> so even if we fix it for nightlies, we will probably still need something in the FAQ / on the blog
22:15:05 <aleth> flo-retina: What we need to figure out is whether we need to support two distinct passwords. But to support legacy users it would be enough to just send the normal password when it is asked for I think
22:15:39 <flo-retina> aleth: znc seems to be clearly asking for the password, so I think we could just send it
22:16:31 <flo-retina> and it's not like if it was a random nickname asking to be PM'ed the password, it's the PASS command, so I don't see any high security risk associated with just sending the PASS command whenever we receive that message
22:16:51 <aleth> flo-retina: It's not that, it's the potential for there to be two distinct passwords
22:17:14 <flo-retina> aleth: LiquidRain explained that there will typically be only one
22:17:37 <aleth> flo-retina: And when we try to reauth after nick changes that will fail.
22:17:38 <LiquidRain> one of the biggest advantages of using ZNC is that it /does/ handle nickserv
22:17:43 <douglaswth> so many colors!
22:18:13 <aleth> Though I agree in that case one could just trust ZNC to handle it
22:18:29 <flo-retina> aleth: we need a way to turn off all nick-related auth if we are sending the password server
22:18:31 <aleth> I'm just not confident I understand what ZNC does/doesn't do at this point ;)
22:18:47 <LiquidRain> aleth: It does what it's configured to
22:18:48 <flo-retina> douglaswth: hi :)
22:19:14 <flo-retina> douglaswth: btw, have you seen that we recently released 1.3? Do you have some add-ons that need their maxVersion bumped? :)
22:19:15 <LiquidRain> Which may or may not include NickServ. (and auto-join and auto-rejoin and etc)
22:19:33 <LiquidRain> I want my Input History back. :(
22:20:56 <aleth> LiquidRain: The thing is, the more configuration options, the harder for us to guess what we still need to do so that it works for everyone ;)
22:21:01 <LiquidRain> yeah
22:22:18 <flo-retina> aleth: I don't think we need a configuration option
22:22:40 <aleth> flo-retina: I meant the ZNC configuration options
22:23:48 <douglaswth> flo-retina: yeah, I just got 1.3 after reading the znc stuff here; oh, it needs maxVersion bumped? didn't firefox/thunderbird make it so you didn't have to keep doing that; my addons stay working for me, but that's probably because I just dev install them
22:24:02 <douglaswth> flo-retina, LiquidRain: I'll update them tonight
22:24:49 <flo-retina> douglaswth: I think we should investigate what it would take for us to be in the same situation as Firefox/Thunderbird for that
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22:25:33 <LiquidRain> Input History hasn't worked since 1.0 I think.  Dunno if it'll work if you just bump up the version number.  But yeah, I do kinda miss it. :)
22:26:13 <douglaswth> hmm, I might have fixed something and not released it? :/
22:26:46 <aleth> LiquidRain: you can always just press ctrl-z a couple times (though that's not really supported ;) )
22:26:52 <LiquidRain> haha
22:26:56 <LiquidRain> Oh.
22:26:57 * flo-retina is still dogfooding Instantbird without any add-on on his work machine.
22:26:59 <LiquidRain> That /does/ work.
22:27:35 <flo-retina> btw, isn't Input History something that should be supported by default?
22:27:51 * LiquidRain coughs
22:27:52 <aleth> I think so.
22:28:22 <flo-retina> including putting the current content of the textbox in the history, and storing the history at the imConversation level instead of the conversation.xml binding, so that we could keep it after putting a conversation on hold and reopening it?
22:29:02 <aleth> douglaswth: Btw, don't bump your tab complete add-on please ;) We integrated it.
22:33:33 <douglaswth> aleth: yeah, I'm not using it any more
22:34:10 <flo-retina> douglaswth: I hope you like the integrated tab completion :)
22:37:26 <douglaswth> yeah, I like the multiple nick stuff
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22:46:56 <clokep> LiquidRain: Is your server public facing?
22:47:08 <LiquidRain> clokep: Yes.
22:47:39 <LiquidRain> However I won't be able to let anyone on IB connect to it I think
22:47:46 <LiquidRain> Does IB always send its username as Instantbird?
22:48:12 <flo-retina> LiquidRain: guess what, there's an about:config pref for that! :-D
22:48:17 <LiquidRain> ahhh
22:49:36 <flo-retina> so there are actually 2 advanced IRC prefs that would be worth exposing in a ZNC-support add-on? :-|
22:49:44 <LiquidRain> yes
22:49:51 <LiquidRain> heck I'd appreciate the username thing regardless
22:50:09 <LiquidRain> that shows up in connection strings and I'd rather be something@wherever than Instantbir@wherever
22:50:10 <clokep> flo-retina: I have a thought of how we can handle that message already.
22:50:18 <clokep> LiquidRain: Yes, but most users won't care.
22:51:25 * clokep grumbles about not having a ZNC server to test w/.
22:52:25 <LiquidRain> yes, yes, message received clokep :)
22:52:45 <LiquidRain> gimme a sec I always forget how to set this up
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22:54:01 <clokep> LiquidRain: It's fine. I'm about to make dinner anyway...
22:54:14 <clokep> (For the record ZNC seemed to be a PITA when I last looked at setting it up...)
22:54:15 <LiquidRain> got it
22:54:27 <LiquidRain> it's a problem if you don't use the built-in modules
22:54:35 <LiquidRain> it's just /msg *admin AddUser [user] [pass] [irc server]
22:55:27 <LiquidRain> and login details sent
22:56:07 * flo-retina is happy to see that ZNC issue being dealt with :)
22:57:11 <-- jb has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
22:57:32 * clokep wonders if we have a setString function...
22:57:35 <aleth> ^^ jb using pidgin?
22:57:48 <clokep> Or Instantbird 1.1.
23:00:35 <flo-retina> aleth: that was from Thunderbird
23:00:49 <flo-retina> and I haven't seen that error message in a long while :-/.
23:01:17 <flo-retina> but it's possible it's just his ISP that sucks (it's the same as mine...)
23:01:27 <LiquidRain> clokep: you forgot your username string
23:01:31 <aleth> Lots of disconnects might do it.
23:01:33 <LiquidRain> ZNC just let me know that you tried logging in as me
23:02:11 <clokep> LiquidRain: I did not, I'm testing.
23:02:19 <LiquidRain> Ah.
23:02:26 <clokep> I wanted to see the error in that situation. :-D
23:02:35 <LiquidRain> Fair enough :)
23:05:04 <clokep> And I got a good response for it! :-D
23:05:35 <aleth> znc in continuing-to-send-helpful-messages shock! :D
23:07:32 <clokep> aleth: No, it just returned 464, invalid password.
23:07:40 <clokep> Not actually helpful in this situation, mind you. ;)
23:07:50 <aleth> ah well.
23:07:54 <clokep> But I decided to handle it while I'm in there...
23:10:16 <flo-retina> Good night
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23:24:01 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from aleth@instantbird.o rg for attachment 2107 on bug 1811.
23:24:04 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1811 min, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, IRC password does not work with ZNC/server password auth
23:24:06 <clokep> LiquidRain: Thanks for the credentials, do you think you could leave them until that patch gets an r+?
23:24:14 <LiquidRain> sure
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23:26:24 <clokep> Thanks. :)
23:27:04 <-- mconley has quit (Input/output error)
23:28:25 <clokep> Feel free to lok at the patch too if you want. ;)
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23:32:28 <LiquidRain> Just did, nice. :)
23:36:35 <-- meh has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
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23:43:34 * clokep guess aleth went to bed. :(
23:46:12 <clokep> LiquidRain: Btw none of "us" use ZNC, so we usually don't know about any problems with using it.
23:46:56 <LiquidRain> Then I'll keep those credentials there for you for testing, and pop in here (or on bugzilla) if I come across any more problems. :)
23:47:24 <clokep> My point was to file bugs, yes! :)
23:54:38 <LiquidRain> will do, chief
23:54:55 <LiquidRain> I'm out.  Thanks for filing the patch for the ZNC minority. :)
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