#instantbird log on 11 08 2012

All times are UTC.

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00:09:26 <clokep> mconley: Ping
00:09:31 <clokep> Doh, are you serious? :(
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00:33:45 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1775 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
00:33:48 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1775 tri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Background of element containing the nickname not snuggling up to main bubble border
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00:38:07 topic changed by gravel.mozilla.org to "Ask about Instantbird (http://instantbird.com) here!|Current version is Instantbird 1.2! :) |News: http://blog.instantbird.org/ |Nightlies: http://nightly.instantbird.im/ (for testing only) |IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/ |Pastebin: http://pastebin.instantbird.org/ | Bugs: http://bugzilla.instantbird.org"
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00:39:49 <instantbot> benediktp@ymail.com requested review from aletheia2@fastmail. fm for attachment 2068 on bug 1775.
00:39:53 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1775 tri, --, ---, benediktp, ASSI, Background of element containing the nickname not snuggling up to main bubble border
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02:25:36 <clokep> Mic: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=809682 might interest you.
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03:37:10 <instant-buildbot> build #679 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/679
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05:11:52 <Mook> ooh, m.d.cat is up
05:17:30 <instant-buildbot> build #767 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/767
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08:16:28 <instant-buildbot> build #680 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/680
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08:21:25 * flo has seen the 2 nickserv tabs again.
08:21:37 <flo> it's possibly because of the sucky internet connection :(
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08:26:26 <flo> there's 8 seconds between "(If this is your nick, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY password.)" and "Password accepted - you are now recognized."
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08:30:18 <flo> and I crashed twice with the " [@ CERT_VerifyCertName ]" signature (http://crash-stats.instantbird.com/report/index/3a152c0f-2a9a-4a70-a3f4-396642121108 and http://crash-stats.instantbird.com/report/index/e3123f58-f882-4daf-a5c2-a67fe2121108)
08:37:57 <flo> Mic: re bug 1775. You fixed something which I hadn't even noticed was broken (the corner), but not what I was seeing (the 1px horizontal line between the bubble border and the nickname area).
08:38:04 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1775 tri, --, ---, benediktp, ASSI, Background of element containing the nickname not snuggling up to main bubble border
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09:50:03 <Mic> flo-retina: I've noticed this too but I don't think it's our fault: the gap is 1 /display/-pixel wide, independent of the zoom level (I don't know how you could achieve this using CSS). Maybe we can fix it somehow anyways...
09:50:21 <Mic> Here's an image showing the same part at different zoom levels for comparison: http://i.imgur.com/oFq6V.png
09:51:00 <Mic> And if it is really 1 /display/-pixel wide, then no wonder that you don't see it on your retina display :)
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09:56:48 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1776 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
09:56:50 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1776 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, "1px" gap between background of nick area and main bubble border
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12:09:52 <flo-retina> Mic: On http://i.imgur.com/oFq6V.png the problem doesn't exist on the blue bubble on the second image, and on both bubbles on the 4th image.
12:10:51 <flo-retina> and that 1px line is never visible on Mac, whatever the zoom level, and it's not related to my retina screen.
12:11:02 <Mic> OK
12:11:29 <flo-retina> The bug your patch fixes (or attempts to fix, as I haven't tried it on Mac yet) is visible on Mac, now that I know it exists, I just had never noticed it before.
12:12:11 <flo-retina> it's only "barely visible" though. Only 4 pixels that are lighter than the border and nick. And 4 pixels on the retina display... ;)
12:12:54 <flo-retina> so for the 1px line, I suspect a rounding issue, but I don't know what causes it.
12:13:14 <flo-retina> I wonder what would happen if we added a margin-top: -1px on the "sender" area.
12:13:46 * flo-retina is now known as florian
12:14:13 <Mic> Can you comment on the BMO bug that this doesn't happen on Mac? Maybe that's good to know for someone.
12:14:20 <Mic> The link is in the BIO bug.
12:14:26 <Mic> I need to go, have a nice day!
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13:23:34 <clokep> Hello.
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13:35:36 <florian> clokep: good morning! :)
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13:39:21 <clokep> florian: Sorry to hear your network has been so awful.
13:44:47 <florian> aleth: the code that doesn't mark a tab as read if it's been focused less than one (or a few?) seconds is in my way several times a day.
13:46:12 <florian> aleth: STR are: 1. have the conversation window on a secondary monitor, with #instantbird selected. 2. Have someone say something in #instantbird. 3. See that another tab has unread messages, click on that tab to see what's been said there. 4. Be surprised that #instantbird is read/blue, click on it to see what has just been said, and notice that there's nothing new.
13:50:19 <clokep> I think the having it open and visible is the unexpected part there.
13:53:04 <florian> clokep: do you know any other useful way to use several monitors?
13:53:18 <florian> clokep: there's always at least one window that's visible without being focused
13:53:44 <florian> and that's possible, although less common, with a single monitor too
13:55:24 <clokep> florian: By "unexpected" I mean the code isn't optimized for that case.
13:55:37 <clokep> It is optimized for switching to the window and immediately switching to a different tab IIRC.
13:55:48 <clokep> Of course that's the only useful way to use a large monitor.
13:55:49 <florian> ok, you meant "unsupported", not "unexpected" :)
13:56:56 <clokep> I guess.
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14:07:15 <FeuerFliege> \help
14:08:17 <clokep> FeuerFliege: Forward slash: /help
14:08:40 <clokep> (/ + <tab> should help too)
14:08:41 <FeuerFliege> I know, that was just a typo.
14:09:01 <clokep> Just making sure. :)
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15:04:53 <clokep> florian: So I would r+ a patch changing our nickserv timeout to 10s (from the current 1s) for really lagging connections.
15:05:00 <clokep> I'm surprised that you're like...not pinging out at that time though.
15:05:14 <florian> pff, the code in http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/libpurple/ssl-nss.c is so messed up :(
15:06:17 <florian> clokep: I don't think my connection takes 7s to get any reply. But the time between the 2 nickserv messages is probably used for all the caps/sasl/whatever exchanges that are done
15:06:34 <florian> clokep: is that timeout change 1.3-wanted or 1.3-ok?
15:07:02 <clokep> florian: I'd be fine w/ it for 1.3. As long as we have a few days of testing.
15:07:21 <clokep> florian: If it was on Moznet, then there is no SASL. SASL takes place before any real connection is setup.
15:07:44 <florian> it was on moznet, yees
15:12:12 <clokep> Yeah, OK that's reasonable then.
15:21:32 <instantbot> New Core - IRC bug 1777 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
15:21:33 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org requested review from clokep@gmail.com for attachment 2071 on bug 1777.
15:21:35 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1777 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Wait more than 1s before showing NickServ's messages
15:26:33 <florian> if I manage to write a fix for that stupid nss crash this week, can we still take it?
15:26:47 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com granted review for attachment 2071 on bug 1777.
15:26:50 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1777 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Wait more than 1s before showing NickServ's messages
15:26:51 <clokep> It depends how comfortable you are with it. I don't know that code at all.
15:27:27 <florian> in http://crash-stats.instantbird.com/query/query?product=Instantbird&version=Instantbird%3A1.3a1pre&version=Instantbird%3A1.2&date=&range_value=4&range_unit=weeks&query_search=signature&query_type=exact&query=&build_id=&process_type=all&do_query=1
15:30:02 <florian> it's definitely #10 #18 #20 and #21
15:30:25 <florian> maybe that makes it a top crasher?
15:30:57 <clokep> Quite possibly...
15:31:06 <florian> and lots of the other top crashers that involve memory corruption "may" be related, although I've no way to know until the obvious crasher is fixed.
15:31:46 <florian> "It depends how comfortable you are with it." I don't know how comfortable I'll be with a patch I don't have yet, but I know I'm very uncomfortable with the current code.
15:34:35 <florian> we should probably do more testing with crappy connections. They expose "interesting" issues, and it's very hard to file bugs/debug while lacking a decent connection, so it's probably something that needs more tools to simulate the slow/unreliable connection.
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15:39:56 <clokep> :-/ I think there are tools that allow that.
15:40:42 <florian> it's not the first time that I discover bugs at the time where it's the most annoying to have bugs in addition to the already difficult communications caused by the crappy connection
15:41:02 <florian> I'm probably not the only one who sometimes suffers from connection issues
15:41:31 * florian should also really look into all the timeout issues we have
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15:46:26 * clokep still hates that Twitter connection bug too.
15:46:33 <clokep> Probably not related to flaky connections, just annoying...
15:47:34 <florian> clokep: the link to flaky connections is... you timeout more often with them ;)
15:47:59 <florian> clokep: we seem to have a similar issues with JS-XMPP
15:48:17 <florian> we don't seem to timeout unless we try to send something on the socket
15:48:48 <florian> a few times, I got my account disconnected (and quickly auto-reconnected) just when I started typing a message (so just when JS-XMPP sent typing notifications)
15:48:57 <clokep> Right. :-/
15:49:13 <florian> and after the auto-reconnect, my "Available" contact to whom I was asking something was "offline"
15:49:24 <florian> ;)
15:49:48 <florian> btw, my Firefox doesn't timeout correctly either
15:49:51 <clokep> Guess it's hard to ask them then. :)
15:50:02 <florian> it sends an offline message...
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16:20:58 <florian> if I set "testinstantbird" as the username for my gtalk account and no local alias, it's really stupid that we display by default "testinstantbird@gmail.com/Nightly0E857B91" in the conversations :(.
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16:29:37 <aleth> Does anyone else see the Display Name jump up by a pixel when tabbing to it with the keyboard?
16:30:36 <florian> aleth: if that's at the top of the blist, it's probably OS-specific
16:30:39 <aleth> I'm on different display settings and am suddenly getting this behaviour
16:30:41 <florian> aleth: seems ok to me on mac
16:31:15 <aleth> Good, then the Mac CSS is probably fine and I need to look at it again for the others
16:31:25 <aleth> Maybe clokep or Mic could let me know from Windows...
16:31:45 <clokep> aleth: All is fine.
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16:32:54 <aleth> Hmm, I wonder what changed...
16:36:45 <aleth> florian: Could you file a bug for that unread ruler edge case? Do I understand right that it is only an issue when you focus IB *by clicking on an inactive tab*?
16:38:09 <florian> seems right
16:39:24 <aleth> I always expected that code to need some tweaking after landing, and was surprised I never got any complaints ;)
16:41:07 <florian> aleth: so now you have your complaint!
16:41:22 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1778 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
16:41:23 <florian> I'm surprised I started noticing it only like ~1 week ago
16:41:25 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1778 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Don't show "Show all protocols" if there are no more protocols
16:41:38 <aleth> It's true re connection issues, we got some good IRC pointers from Optimizer who also had frequent timeouts
16:42:02 <Optimizer> :D , making fun of me as well!
16:42:19 <aleth> Optimizer: more of a thankyou actually :)
16:42:51 <aleth> You spotted some nick change issues iirc
16:42:55 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1779 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
16:42:55 <Optimizer> let me read backscroll
16:42:57 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1779 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Focusing Instantbird by clicking an unselected conversation tab doesn't mark the current conversatio
16:45:47 <aleth> florian: thanks!
16:46:50 <florian> aleth: you are welcome :)
16:48:47 <aleth> There is something odd about terminal windows set to black-text-on-white-background...
16:52:08 <clokep> aleth: I have most of my terminal sets that way.
16:52:20 <clokep> (Where by "terminal" I mean "command prompts" ;))
16:54:49 <aleth> I'm sure it's just what one is used to... atm I'm just always alt-tabbing past it ;)
16:55:15 <florian> http://queze.net/goinfre/webrtc-fx-tb-flo-clokep.png and http://i.imgur.com/1gdbs.png are two views of the same conversation! \o/
16:56:01 <aleth> wow, very nice :)
16:56:20 <clokep> Now you all know what my kitchen cabinets look like. ;)
16:56:21 <aleth> I'm amazed how quickly you got this working...
16:57:41 * aleth reads the text and discovers clokep has already implemented typing notifications for video chat
16:58:30 <clokep> aleth: Haha, well the voice chat mostly. ;)
16:58:53 <florian> ah, I see aleth found his way to #WebRTC-Apps.
16:59:08 <clokep> Oh I'm apparently no in that at home...
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17:05:00 <Optimizer> is that using Firefox Social feature ?
17:05:43 <Optimizer> \o/
17:05:49 <Optimizer> Want!
17:06:23 <florian> Optimizer: Firefox SocialAPI and WebRTC
17:06:29 <florian> Optimizer: and it's very very experimental at this point
17:06:44 <Optimizer> yeah, the one pointed by Tarek also di dnot work for me
17:06:53 <florian> aleth: is bug 1779 trivial enough to be something we can take for 1.3? :)
17:06:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1779 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Focusing Instantbird by clicking an unselected conversation tab doesn't mark the current conversatio
17:07:34 <aleth> florian: I won't know until I look at the code.
17:07:43 <florian> aleth: ok
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17:09:40 <Optimizer> Who is sponsoring this project ?
17:10:22 <florian> Optimizer: what do you mean by "sponsoring"?
17:10:44 <Optimizer> like .. um.. do you guys get paid to develop instant bird ?
17:10:44 <clokep> florian, aleth: https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1767#c2 thoughts?
17:10:47 <instantbot> Bug 1767 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, New nightly can't auth with ZNC server
17:11:02 <Optimizer> if yes, there must be some funding or something like that involved .. right ?
17:11:07 <florian> oh, so "this project" was Instantbird, and not our WebRTC & SocialAPI demo?
17:11:13 <Optimizer> yes 
17:11:20 <Optimizer> sorry it was confusing 
17:11:31 <florian> Optimizer: nobody is paid to work on Instantbird, we are all volunteers
17:11:42 <Optimizer> :O
17:11:44 <florian> Optimizer: and some of us (including me) pay real money for the servers.
17:11:55 <Optimizer> that is some commitment :)
17:12:43 <florian> Optimizer: my current day-job is to experiment with WebRTC applications for Mozilla. So the experiment I showed before is part of my work. But polishing it and integrating it in Instantbird eventually will definitely have to be done on my spare time.
17:13:01 <Optimizer> Amazon EC2 ?
17:13:13 <florian> Optimizer: most people here are _really_ commited to offering people a great instant messaging experience. See http://www.instantbird.org/ for details.
17:13:22 <Optimizer> florian: then you must be having some idea about this : https://github.com/anantn/socialapi-demo
17:13:26 <Optimizer> it did not work for me 
17:13:32 <florian> Optimizer: I wrote that demo
17:13:36 <Optimizer> I forced my friend to follow the steps
17:13:39 <florian> with anant
17:13:54 <Optimizer> he appeared online, I clicked on him, then after that
17:13:58 <Optimizer> I could only see my video
17:14:13 <Optimizer> and as soon as I start typing anything, even my video disappears and camera shuts down
17:14:34 <florian> it's possible he was behind a symmetric NAT that we can't traverse
17:14:49 <Optimizer> o.O
17:14:55 <Optimizer> English!!
17:15:13 <Optimizer> or at least JS
17:15:14 <Optimizer> :P
17:15:21 <Optimizer> at most*
17:15:32 <florian> Optimizer: by the way, that demo is quite off topic of this channel.
17:15:42 <Optimizer> yes that it is ..
17:15:57 <florian> for webrtc issues, the channel is #media, and for that demo, the right channel is #WebRTC-Apps
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17:23:20 <florian> clokep: option 2 is fine with me. (re bug 1767)
17:23:33 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1767 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, New nightly can't auth with ZNC server
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17:33:03 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 2072 on bug 1767.
17:33:06 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1767 maj, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, New nightly can't auth with ZNC server
17:33:33 <aleth> clokep: Will it be easy for you to upgrade the password-in-pref to password-in-password-manager later?
17:33:50 <clokep> aleth: It is essentially what we did with account passwords...
17:33:53 <clokep> So I don't see why not.
17:34:18 <aleth> So I agree with you, as long as you don't make life difficult for yourself for 1.4 that way ;)
17:35:11 <clokep> aleth: I don't want it totally broken for 1.3.
17:35:25 <aleth> clokep: Sure :)
17:35:51 <clokep> And I think it won't be /that/ difficult for 1.4. (If we even get around to doing that... ;))
17:37:12 <aleth> clokep: you might wait for the "what! you store password in plain text!!1!" outrage bug ;)
17:37:38 <clokep> :)
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18:02:14 <flo-retina> clokep: r+ if you have verified that it works (ie seen in the error console that the pass command is actually sent at the correct time; I'm not asking you to setup the bouncer :))
18:02:46 <clokep> flo-retina: I did that, yes.
18:03:19 <clokep> And I got the notification from NickServ saying the nick isn't registered. ;) Which is expected if you set that when it gets forwarded to NickServ.
18:03:36 <flo-retina> http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/today#m289 clearly, wait for the bug, and suggest to the reporter that we would take a patch but aren't interested in working ourselves on that edge case :).
18:04:54 <-- aleth has quit (Input/output error)
18:07:10 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 2072 on bug 1767.
18:07:12 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1767 maj, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, New nightly can't auth with ZNC server
18:07:41 <clokep> :)
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18:12:57 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo-retina flo-retina 
18:14:00 <clokep> flo-retina: Sorry I never got around to the blog post...maybe if I have some time in a bit I can start it.
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19:12:09 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo-retina flo-retina 
19:12:32 * flo-retina has a fast connection again
19:12:51 <flo-retina> With the neighbors' WEP key :-|
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19:23:27 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1780 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
19:23:37 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1780 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Provide a Windows service to update applications without asking Administrator password
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19:31:23 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1781 filed by aletheia2@fastmail.fm.
19:31:25 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1781 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Display name jumps upwards by 1px when focused
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19:37:37 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 2073 on bug 1764.
19:37:39 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1764 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Drop ForwardProtocolPrototype
19:40:09 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm granted review for attachment 2068 on bug 1775.
19:40:12 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1775 tri, --, ---, benediktp, ASSI, Background of element containing the nickname not snuggling up to main bubble border
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19:57:29 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo-retina flo-retina 
19:58:23 <flo-retina> I'm now connected from a fast connection, but nickserv from freenode still took 5s to tell me my password was OK :(
20:00:54 <aleth> I've seen that too.
20:02:31 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 2073 on bug 1764.
20:02:33 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1764 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Drop ForwardProtocolPrototype
20:02:52 <flo-retina> clokep: I also kinda assumed that bug 1764 would be for after 1.3, but I really don't see why we couldn't just take it
20:03:22 <flo-retina> it's just dead code removal, and if it breaks something we will notice at the next nightly, so way before we build RCs :)
20:03:28 <clokep> flo-retina: We can if you want. But you have to fix things if they break. ;)
20:03:56 <flo-retina> I'm just afraid we may forget it after the release
20:04:08 <flo-retina> but if it's in your assignee list, maybe you will remind me :)
20:04:24 <flo-retina> clokep: I'm ok with fixing potential breakage if it lands now
20:04:59 <clokep> flo-retina: Then land it.
20:05:22 <flo-retina> I would like to test bug 1775 before/after the patch on mac btw
20:05:26 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1775 min, --, ---, benediktp, ASSI, Background of element containing the nickname not snuggling up to main bubble border
20:05:47 <aleth> That's a good idea.
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20:06:19 <aleth> I was going to suggest taking it and backing it out if anyone noticed any issues in the next one or two days.
20:06:52 <flo-retina> aleth: I don't think the issues could be worse than the current bug, which we failed to notice for years
20:07:11 <aleth> flo-retina: this is true :D
20:07:32 <flo-retina> I also wonder how things would look without that border radius
20:07:42 <flo-retina> wouldn't the corner be cut anyway?
20:07:57 <aleth> Hmm... it should be
20:08:02 <flo-retina> if it works as well without the rule, maybe we are over complicating things
20:08:04 <aleth> That might be the cleanest solution
20:08:23 <flo-retina> are you going to try?
20:09:31 <clokep> I thought that doesn't work, but maybe they've fixed it.
20:09:31 <aleth> OK
20:09:44 <aleth> It doesn't work :(
20:11:12 <flo-retina> screenshot ?
20:12:05 <clokep> I think it just clips behind.
20:13:29 <aleth> For those of little faith ;) https://i.minus.com/jblNP5xF1OZnIr.png
20:13:55 <aleth> The clipping just ignores the border-radius
20:14:57 <flo-retina> that's sad :(
20:15:03 <flo-retina> so yes, Mic's patch seems the way to go
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20:15:48 <flo-retina> nobody said file transfer :-P
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20:20:59 <EionRobb> haha
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20:33:32 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1782 filed by bugi@media.fjmail.de.
20:33:35 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1782 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, German l10n pack for Instantbird 1.3 Nightlies (string frozen)
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20:34:46 <clokep> aleth: "Result: the previously visible tab keeps its unread flag." I think that's the "bug" to flo-retina.
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20:34:57 <clokep> aleth: "Result: the previously visible tab keeps its unread flag." I think that's the "bug" to flo-retina.
20:35:26 <aleth> Ahaha!
20:35:28 <aleth> So it is.
20:35:37 * aleth is tired.
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20:40:26 <flo-retina> oh, I know what made this more visible recently!
20:40:36 <flo-retina> I used to have only 2 channels that weren't on hold
20:40:54 <flo-retina> now that I'm working on webrtc stuff, I've got 3 more.
20:42:37 <aleth> I'm not sure how to fix this atm. It's hard to know what the user has seen when IB does not have focus.
20:44:17 <flo-retina> I don't remember the rationale for adding that timer, is there a summary somewhere?
20:44:35 <clokep> I think it was on my complaint...
20:44:35 <aleth> There must be.
20:44:45 <clokep> hg blame?
20:45:06 <aleth> There are a couple of use cases
20:45:45 <aleth> One is IB gets focus after you come back to you PC, but you immediately switch away to another app
20:45:55 <aleth> Another is rapidly switching between tabs, especially with the keyboard
20:46:31 <flo-retina> so none of these use case involve a click directly targeted at the tab we are selecting?
20:47:03 <aleth> The latter case may do.
20:47:29 <aleth> Imagine a desktop where the IB conv window is kept peeping out behind others, and there are multiple tabs with unread messages
20:47:54 <aleth> If the user does exactly what you do, she will be annoyed at the disappearing unread ruler from a tab that she has never fully seen
20:48:30 <flo-retina> I think the user would do that exactly to get rid of the red tabs
20:48:44 <flo-retina> like people sometimes do to quickly mark lots of emails as read
20:50:11 <aleth> Well, that works, doesn't it?
20:50:24 <flo-retina> aleth: the problem may be that the expectations for the unread ruler and the red tab are different :-/
20:50:29 <aleth> flo-retina: They are
20:50:39 <aleth> That's why I put different behaviour for both
20:50:48 <flo-retina> uh
20:51:07 <aleth> You can get rid of the "red tab" without the unread ruler disappearing
20:51:11 * flo-retina is now completely confused
20:51:46 <aleth> Click on a red tab and the redness always disappears immediately
20:51:48 <flo-retina> so why is it a problem to get rid of my red tab then?
20:52:02 <aleth> Hmm that's a good point
20:52:11 <aleth> You mean, ditch the unread flag, but not the ruler?
20:52:16 <aleth> :)
20:52:20 <clokep> flo-retina: Isn't the tab you're complaining is staying red the original tab that was focused not the one you're clicking on?
20:52:30 <aleth> That may actually be consistent behaviour 
20:52:32 <flo-retina> I think I don't care either way about the ruler, but the unread flag is actively in my way
20:52:44 <aleth> ^^ I get it now.
20:52:54 <flo-retina> clokep: yes. does what I said imply something else?
20:53:06 <clokep> flo-retina: No, I just wanted to make sure we all understood it. :)
20:53:13 <flo-retina> clokep: ok cool :)
20:55:34 <aleth> I was just confused initially as the red flag has nothing to do with any timers.
20:56:13 <flo-retina> aleth: weren't we removing the flag in that situation before we added the timer?
20:56:38 <aleth> flo-retina: I'd have to look at the checkin, but I doubt I changed that.
20:56:56 <flo-retina> aleth: oh well, I don't really need someone to blame anyway ;)
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20:57:27 <flo-retina> aleth: and whatever patch it is, it's probably at least half my fault, as I don't think anybody else would have reviewed a patch touching that code
20:57:32 * aleth doesn't care about blame, just about understanding exactly what the problem is ;)
20:58:01 * clokep wants to blame someone. ;)
20:58:09 <flo-retina> aleth: the problem is: the current behavior gives me the wrong impression that new message have arrived in the tab I've just switched away from.
20:58:16 <flo-retina> clokep: blame instantbot :)
20:59:48 <aleth> flo-retina: But it's just wrong to assume the user has read what was new in the current tab when IB didn't have focus. It may not have been visible at all
21:00:42 <flo-retina> aleth: it's wrong only if the window was half visible and the user clicked a visible unselected tab to focus the window and select the tab
21:00:58 <aleth> This happens ;)
21:01:02 <flo-retina> if the window wasn't at least partially visible, it's impossible to select a tab with the mouse without focusing the window first
21:01:10 <aleth> Not everyone has two large screens ;)
21:01:24 <flo-retina> I'm sure it can happen. But I'm willing to assume that it's not the common case.
21:02:04 <flo-retina> if everthing doesn't fit on my screen, I either make the window smaller if I want to keep seeing it, or I switch to the application with command+tab before clicking in it
21:02:32 <flo-retina> I'm not sure what other people do, but I don't think keeping a partially visible window *and* clicking on a tab in that window is a common case
21:04:59 <aleth> I'll find out how to change it and we can test it.
21:05:25 <flo-retina> clokep: here's an idea for file transfer (I don't want to disappoint EionRobb) : do it over webrtc for all protocol plugins if there's instantbird on both ends. If on the other end it's not Instantbird (or a compatible client), the user visible thing received would be a link to a page using webrtc in the browser (if Firefox or Chrome) or suggesting to download a better browser
21:05:33 <flo-retina> aleth: cool :)
21:06:26 <EionRobb> flo-retina: just using Filelink would be enough, surely?
21:07:13 <flo-retina> EionRobb: filelink keeps data on the server; others may access it
21:07:40 <flo-retina> EionRobb: a webrtc data channel would transfer the file directly (P2P! :)) and do that in a fully encrypted way
21:08:20 <clokep> flo-retina: Reasonable.
21:09:03 <flo-retina> clokep: the only disappointing part is that the SDP (at least in its current form) is way longer than what some protocols allow in a single message
21:09:38 <flo-retina> (I was hoping we could just link to http://ft.instantbird.com/<base64 encoding of the SDP> but that seems unrealistic :()
21:10:15 <flo-retina> but we don't have to use SDP, we can probably extract the useful data from it (which IP and which port should we connect to) and base64 encode only that
21:11:17 <flo-retina> that seems like an exciting project btw, I wonder if I could convince people to let me work on that :)
21:13:17 <clokep> flo-retina: So you'd want to send a special messages that is decoded somehow in Instantbird? So bypassing the protocols fully? Does that make sense for htings like XMPP which already use pretty much the same thing?
21:18:16 <flo-retina> for xmpp we could try jingle first
21:25:01 <clokep> Right. interoperability is something to strive for IMO.
21:33:46 <clokep> Well I'm leaving in a bit, good luck with the release! I hope there aren't any more IRC issues. :)
21:34:01 <aleth> Have a good time in the UK! :)
21:34:03 <clokep> If I have Internet on my phone I'll stop in at some point!
21:34:05 <clokep> Thanks!
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21:47:08 <flo-retina> clokep: enjoy your vacations! :)
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21:55:34 <flo-retina> is this something we should fix before or after 1.3? http://pastebin.instantbird.com/98920 :)
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21:59:57 <flo-retina> the patch from bug 1775 works great on Mac too, as expected! :)
22:00:01 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1775 min, --, ---, benediktp, ASSI, Background of element containing the nickname not snuggling up to main bubble border
22:00:06 <flo-retina> Mic++ for that :)
22:00:36 <aleth> I'm not sure it fixes the 1px top margin he originally spotted though...
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22:02:38 <clokep> Good luck w/ the release. :)
22:02:43 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
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22:09:07 <flo-retina1> typing /offline and then quickly /back lets my irc accounts in the "disconnected" state. Typing "/back" again reconnects them. Have I already filed a bug on that?
22:09:24 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/9e67eb680bbb - Benedikt Pfeifer - Bug 1775 - Background of element containing the nickname not snuggling up to main bubble border, r=aleth.
22:09:25 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/d6fa12d93126 - Florian Qu├Ęze - Bug 1777 - Wait more than 1s before showing NickServ's messages, r=clokep.
22:09:26 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/662d3d044cc9 - Patrick Cloke - Bug 1764 - Drop ForwardProtocolPrototype, r=fqueze.
22:09:27 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/8c055fcede9f - Patrick Cloke - Bug 1767 - New nightly can't auth with ZNC server, r=fqueze.
22:09:29 <aleth> I don't think so.
22:09:36 <aleth> Everything on IRC takes time...
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22:11:38 <flo-retina1> aleth: I guess it ignores the /back thing while it's still in the "disconnecting" state
22:12:14 <aleth> Probably.
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22:56:39 <aleth> I don't think /back is handled any different from any other way of changing the status actually.
22:58:17 <flo-retina1> I don't understand that comment about reconnection loops
22:58:46 <aleth> Has it never happened to you that an account kept trying to reconnect and failing and you had no way to stop it?
22:59:10 <flo-retina1> last time it happened there was a bug in the reconnect timer that kept using 1s for some reason
22:59:39 <flo-retina1> otherwise, "cancel auto-reconnect timer" from the context menu works
22:59:54 <aleth> Huh, I didn't know that existed :)
23:00:12 <flo-retina1> I've wanted to add an (x) icon next to the reconnect timer for a while
23:00:33 <flo-retina1> but I'm not sure we need that feature that often to be worth it
23:01:10 <aleth> Probably most of the time these loops happen is because one is coding something and added a bug...
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23:02:06 <clokep_wp7> flo: You've never filed that bug.
23:02:08 <flo-retina1> it didn't take clokep_wp7 long to fly to the UK and find a place to connect his phone
23:02:11 <aleth> I think one way to get trapped is to try to connect with a port blocked by a firewall
23:02:26 <aleth> I thought Concorde was out of service :P
23:02:55 <clokep_wp7> More of waiting in security line.... 
23:03:06 <flo-retina1> :(
23:03:37 <flo-retina1> each time I look at the NSS code I get lost :(
23:04:44 <clokep_wp7> Makes you cry? :-P
23:05:21 <-- Mnyromyr has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [SeaMonkey 1.1.19/2010030105])
23:05:30 <clokep_wp7> anyway i need to do the security dance...
23:05:35 <-- clokep_wp7 has quit (Broken pipe)
23:06:04 <flo-retina1> hmm, if the security line is a broken pipe, will clokep get lost in that pipe? :-S
23:07:14 <aleth> No smoking.
23:13:46 <aleth> I think the unread flag removal will have to be triggered by the mousedown handler of the tab
23:14:02 <aleth> Or can you think of a better place to put it, offhand?
23:16:38 <aleth> It's got to be mouse-specific, so...
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23:18:04 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1783 filed by spiffytech@gmail.com.
23:18:07 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1783 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Typing notification never goes away for tabs in a detached window
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23:58:03 <flo-retina1> hmm