All times are UTC.
00:00:55 --> rosonline has joined #instantbird 00:09:00 <flo-retina> rosonline: hi :). Do you think the translation into your locale is likely to be ready for Instantbird 1.3 (that we hope to release next week) 00:09:44 <rosonline> flo-retina: No yet, but I can ready it quickly, if you want. 00:10:13 <flo-retina> I know it's not ready yet 00:10:40 <flo-retina> but if you want 1.3 to be in your locale, you have a bit less than a week left to finish it, so I'm wondering if that's enough time for you to finish 00:11:14 <rosonline> flo-retina: OK. 00:11:47 <rosonline> I'll work in it now 00:12:26 <rosonline> One question: There's any change in this files until the 1.3? 00:13:40 <rosonline> Is tere? 00:13:44 <rosonline> is there? 00:15:30 <rosonline> flo-retina: Is there any change in this en-US files? 00:16:26 <flo-retina> rosonline: the en-US files won't change between today and the 1.3 release 00:16:40 <flo-retina> rosonline: I'm writing an email right now to all localizers to announce that. 00:16:55 <rosonline> flo-retina: good! 00:17:01 <rosonline> Send me too 00:18:03 <clokep> Thanks for writing that email flo-retina. :) 00:18:06 <flo-retina> clokep: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/97236 00:18:41 <clokep> flo-retina: r+ 00:18:42 <flo-retina> rosonline: I just added you to the localizers mailing list. I hope you have received the invitation. 00:19:03 <rosonline> flo-retina: by email? 00:19:27 <flo-retina> clokep: drafting the email wasn't too much work. Figuring out who needed to be added to the l10n list took longer. (I added rosonline, unghost, and the new Hungarian translator) 00:19:46 <clokep> :) It'd be great to release in more locales! 00:20:11 <flo-retina> rosonline: yes; I used rosonline.mail AT gmail.com, is that the correct address? 00:20:22 <flo-retina> if it is and you haven't received it, maybe check the spam folder? 00:20:24 <rosonline> flo-retina: Yes! 00:20:47 <rosonline> I received it 00:21:15 <flo-retina> clokep: btw, someone should try to find pl translators to update that locale. Not sure what happened to that l10n team, but their locale wasn't updated for 1.2 even though the team used to be one of the most active, and the Mozilla community in Poland is super active 00:23:28 <flo-retina> we may also want to find a more responsive French localizer 00:25:21 <clokep> :-/ 00:26:31 <rosonline> It's craziest times! 00:26:40 <rosonline> ^^' 00:29:57 <flo-retina> clokep: now that I think about it, that email probably missed a summary of the exciting changes between 1.2 and 1.3 00:30:19 <flo-retina> but I honestly have no idea of what has changed :( 00:30:27 <flo-retina> I don't remember how 1.2 was :) 00:33:05 <clokep> Right, you need me to write release notes first. ;) 00:33:32 <flo-retina> 122 changesets 00:34:04 <flo-retina> clokep: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/97237 00:34:11 <flo-retina> that may help for the release notes ;) 00:34:42 <flo-retina> uh, we forgot to update libpurple 00:34:48 <flo-retina> bah... who cares? :-D 00:36:34 <EionRobb> lol 00:37:06 <clokep> flo-retina: I don't think 2.10.4 --> 2.10.6 even has string change.s 00:37:17 <clokep> flo-retina: Thanks for that list. :) 00:39:40 <flo-retina> clokep: that least seems to say "accessibility++, IRC improvements, twitter improvements (topic, reply to all, tab icon), Show Nick, updated to Moz16." 00:40:06 <clokep> That's pretty much it, yes. 00:40:13 <flo-retina> not a very exciting release 00:40:15 <flo-retina> mostly bug fixes 00:40:16 <clokep> Also the minimum glib was increased? 00:40:31 <flo-retina> really? 00:40:37 <clokep> Oh wait. 00:40:40 <clokep> No...wrong bug. :) 00:40:49 <clokep> We made it compatible w/ higher glib releases. 00:40:57 <flo-retina> ah, fixes for compatibility with OS X 10.8 too 00:41:13 <flo-retina> although I'm almost sure the background of the dmg file needs fixing :( 00:41:20 <flo-retina> and that's probably 1.3 wanted :( 00:42:08 <rosonline> flo-retina: Help me! When i commit an archive, the ortoise tell me: HTTP error 405 (push requires POST request) 00:42:35 <flo-retina> rosonline: which url are you using for the repository? 00:43:04 <rosonline> hg.instantbird.org/l10n/pt-BR 00:43:35 <flo-retina> that's no an url 00:43:42 <flo-retina> *not 00:43:52 <flo-retina> but I suspect you forgot the "/" at the end of the URL 00:44:30 <rosonline> flo-retina: I think not! 00:44:44 <flo-retina> https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Translation/FAQ#What_does_the_error_.22abort:_HTTP_Error_405:_push_requires_POST_request.22_mean.3F 00:45:02 <rosonline> flo-retina: I forgot the change the HTTP to HTTPS 00:45:37 <rosonline> I did this change and I can update the archives -_-' 00:47:15 <flo-retina> the sv-SE locale is complete. That was a fast reaction to my email! ;) 00:48:30 <flo-retina> ah no, it wasn't actually. It's just that the l10n builder started now. 00:48:37 <flo-retina> the commit was made at 9am :) 00:49:44 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1773 filed by email@example.com. 00:49:57 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1773 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Fix the layout/background of the Mac disk image for compatibility with OS X 10.8 00:50:34 <-- EionRobb has quit (Ping timeout) 00:51:04 <instant-buildbot> build #345 of linux-onCommit is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-onCommit/builds/345 00:53:16 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird 00:53:23 <flo-retina> the server is slow again. This time it's buildbot that's sucking the CPU 00:58:03 * clokep is distracted by the awful US election coverage... 00:58:32 <EionRobb> US is awful, or the US elections are awful? 01:03:02 <flo-retina> Good night 01:04:31 <clokep> EionRobb: The election coverage is awful. Well really the news agencies in general here. 01:14:40 <-- EionRobb has quit (Quit: Leaving.) 01:17:52 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird 01:28:44 --> Kaishi has joined #instantbird 01:49:50 <-- rosonline has quit (Quit: Experimentem Instantbird 1.2 -- http://www.instantbird.com) 01:50:19 --> rosonline has joined #instantbird 01:50:36 <-- rosonline has quit (Quit: Experimentem Instantbird 1.2 -- http://www.instantbird.com) 01:50:44 --> rosonline has joined #instantbird 01:50:58 <-- rosonline has quit (Quit: Experimentem Instantbird 1.2 -- http://www.instantbird.com) 01:51:14 --> rosonline has joined #instantbird 02:02:31 <-- Mook_as has quit (Quit: Mook_as) 02:03:59 <instant-buildbot> build #332 of win32-onCommit is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-onCommit/builds/332 02:35:34 <clokep> flo-retina: Mic: aleth: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/ib-1-3-release-notes (generated from http://pastebin.instantbird.com/97237) 02:36:34 <clokep> I can try to get a blog post form tomorrow if you'd like. 02:52:40 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com) 03:03:08 <instant-buildbot> build #313 of macosx-onCommit is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-onCommit/builds/313 03:35:21 <instant-buildbot> build #678 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/678 03:38:49 <-- rosonline has quit (Quit: Experimentem Instantbird 1.2 -- http://www.instantbird.com) 03:40:02 --> Mook has joined #instantbird 04:24:17 <-- flo-retina has quit (Ping timeout) 04:24:28 --> FireFly_TB has joined #instantbird 04:27:38 --> flo-retina has joined #instantbird 04:27:39 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo-retina flo-retina 04:48:56 <-- Optimizer has quit (Ping timeout) 04:51:40 --> Optimizer1 has joined #instantbird 04:55:38 <-- EionRobb has quit (Quit: Leaving.) 05:02:42 <-- mconley has quit (Input/output error) 05:16:33 <instant-buildbot> build #766 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/766 05:23:30 <-- FireFly_TB has quit (Ping timeout) 05:26:08 <-- flo-retina has quit (Ping timeout) 05:29:33 --> flo-retina has joined #instantbird 05:29:33 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo-retina flo-retina 05:47:49 --> FeuerFliege has joined #instantbird 06:52:24 --> FireFly_TB has joined #instantbird 06:54:05 <-- FireFly_TB has quit (Ping timeout) 06:54:55 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird 07:15:05 <-- DGMurdockIII has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0/20121031065642]) 07:23:18 <-- Optimizer1 has quit (Ping timeout) 07:26:35 --> Optimizer1 has joined #instantbird 08:00:04 --> jb has joined #instantbird 08:18:10 <instant-buildbot> build #679 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/679 08:25:31 <-- jb has quit (Quit: jb) 08:27:26 <-- Mook has quit (Quit: Mook) 08:46:33 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 08:46:34 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 08:47:02 <-- Mic has quit (Input/output error) 08:47:03 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 08:47:03 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 08:51:22 <-- Mic has quit (Input/output error) 08:51:24 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 08:51:24 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 08:53:10 <Mic> Hi 08:54:04 <-- Mic has quit (Input/output error) 08:54:06 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 08:54:08 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 08:54:40 <Mic> I'm on 20121107041556 and I'm still seeing bug 1772 :( 08:54:43 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1772 cri, --, 1.3, clokep, RESO FIXED, IRC account disconnects on receiving action messages containing line breaks 08:57:07 <FeuerFliege> hi 09:02:18 <Mic> FeuerFliege: cool, "de" is almost finished :) 09:02:51 <Mic> Good job :) 09:03:43 <FeuerFliege> Mic: It was ready, but there there were 12 new strings in the last 48h. 09:03:55 <Mic> I'm sorry, that was me ;) 09:04:00 <Mic> Bug 1608 09:04:04 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1608 nor, --, 1.3, benediktp, RESO FIXED, Replace "buddy" with "contact" in user-facing strings 09:04:05 <FeuerFliege> buggy -> contact? 09:05:03 <FeuerFliege> Mic: Do you know if there is already a draft for the release notes? 09:05:14 <Mic> I don't think there's one yet. 09:05:43 <Mic> btw we decided against Ctrl+C for "Add Contact" in en, because it's used for "Copy" everywhere else already. 09:06:16 --> chrisccoulson has joined #instantbird 09:06:23 <Mic> It's used for "Chat beitreten..." in german though, maybe we should change that too? 09:06:24 <-- chrisccoulson has quit (Connection reset by peer) 09:10:06 <FeuerFliege> Mic: right, Strg+C seems like a bad idea. 09:11:05 <FeuerFliege> http://hg.instantbird.org/l10n/locales-status.html#de seems not to be up to date. I cannot find the missing string conversation.error.notDelivered 09:11:27 <Mic> What do you think about keeping all shortcuts as they are in "en"? (not the accesskeys which should be related to the label, of course) 09:12:59 <FeuerFliege> Mic: I will look into this. Did you changed anything else in the strings for bug 1608 except replacing buddy with contact? 09:13:02 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1608 nor, --, 1.3, benediktp, RESO FIXED, Replace "buddy" with "contact" in user-facing strings 09:14:47 <Mic> There's one place where the label "Buddy" was changed to "Username", if that's what you mean 09:15:27 <Mic> https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/attachment.cgi?id=2053&action=diff#a/instantbird/locales/en-US/chrome/instantbird/addbuddy.dtd_sec1 09:16:38 <Mic> There were some changes to the localization comments too, I don't know how that affects you 09:19:49 <Mic> FeuerFliege: about the release notes: http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/today/#m89 09:20:05 <Mic> Seems I hadn't finished reading the log yet 09:21:26 <FeuerFliege> flo: http://hg.instantbird.org/l10n/locales-status.html#de seems off. It mentions conversation.error.notDelivered in xmpp.properties which I cannot find at all and addonManager.key which was fixed with bug 1674 two weeks ago. 09:21:29 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1674 nor, --, 1.3, benediktp, RESO FIXED, Accesskey for Add-ons manager not localizable 09:23:19 <FeuerFliege> Mic: thx! 09:25:19 <Mic> We need a way to search about:memory... :S 09:25:32 <Mic> *search through 09:26:55 <Mic> clokep: is "The memory of each component is now tracked individually (libpurple vs. purplexpcom vs. Instantbird)." actually true? I can't find something about purplexpcom on about:memory and bug 1564 isn't fixed yet either. 09:26:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1564 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add memory reporters to purplexpcom 09:31:33 --> Even1 has joined #instantbird 09:31:42 <-- Even1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com) 09:31:50 --> Even1 has joined #instantbird 09:39:14 <-- EionRobb has quit (Quit: Leaving.) 09:40:14 <flo-retina> FeuerFliege: http://hg.instantbird.org/l10n/en-US/file/995db2f2103b/chat/xmpp.properties#l42 09:41:22 <flo-retina> and addonManager.key is at http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/locales/en-US/chrome/instantbird/instantbird.dtd#48 09:42:18 <flo-retina> apparently I made a mistake while unbitrotting http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/0d2e723c6ada (would have been way easier to see what I was doing if the patch didn't reindent everything) 09:49:20 <FeuerFliege> flo-retina: Ups, I updated the wrong repo (not the one I use for compare-locales). 09:50:05 <flo-retina> not sure if I should break the string freeze to remove the addonManager.key string or do that after the release 09:52:10 <FeuerFliege> and sorry about my patch for bug 833. It applied when I created it, but in the meantime Mics patch was committed. 09:52:13 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=833 enh, --, 1.3, bugi, RESO FIXED, Add access keys menu bar items 10:06:12 --> FireFly_TB has joined #instantbird 10:06:21 <-- FireFly_TB has left #instantbird (plopp) 10:06:32 --> FireFly_TB has joined #instantbird 10:07:24 <-- FireFly_TB has left #instantbird () 10:12:27 <-- Optimizer1 has quit (Ping timeout) 10:15:46 --> Optimizer1 has joined #instantbird 10:31:57 --> meh has joined #instantbird 10:39:33 <flo-retina> FeuerFliege: "It applied when I created it, but in the meantime Mics patch was committed." That's the definition of bitrot, yes ;) 10:39:42 <-- flo-retina has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com) 10:44:17 <-- Optimizer1 has quit (Ping timeout) 10:47:50 --> Optimizer1 has joined #instantbird 11:02:16 --> flo-retina has joined #instantbird 11:02:17 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo-retina flo-retina 11:05:35 <flo-retina> would anybody be against putting the "mobile" status on all the Gtalk resources that expose the capabilities " <caps:c xmlns="http://jabber.org/protocol/caps" node="http://www.android.com/gtalk/client/caps" ext="pmuc-v1 voice-v1 video-v1 camera-v1" ver="1.1"/>" (the downside is that would ignore the status sent by the client...) 11:06:02 <flo-retina> checking the tooltip to see if the resource is named "android_*" is tedious :-S 11:08:11 <Mic> You mean these contacts would always be "mobile" then an no longer "available"/"unavailable"? 11:08:33 <flo-retina> right 11:08:45 <-- Optimizer1 has quit (Ping timeout) 11:09:45 <Mic> Maybe use "mobile" instead of "available"? 11:11:13 <flo-retina> Mic: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/components/public/imIStatusInfo.idl#19 Our "mobile" status is the least available status we have 11:12:39 <Mic> I meant setting the status to mobile only if it applies && the user is available, i.e. hack it into the protocol? 11:13:36 <flo-retina> and why not setting it to mobile when the user is "unavailable" on the android resource? 11:13:43 --> Optimizer1 has joined #instantbird 11:15:10 <Mic> If the user is unavailable she wouldn't want to get messages either way -> it doesn't matter that she's on mobile? 11:16:48 <Mic> Well, the problem is that "mobile" is among status that are mutually exclusive otherwise while it isn't. 11:16:58 <Mic> *statuses ? 11:17:30 <flo-retina> Mic: "unavailable" is 'more avaiable' and "idle", but less than "mobile" 11:17:34 <Mic> (seems to be the correct plural form;) 11:18:17 <flo-retina> so if the user is idle on desktop, and available (displayed as mobile) on the android device, switching to unavailable on android (making that resource less available than before) would make Instantbird think the android device is more available than the desktop 11:19:41 <Mic> Ah! 11:20:42 <flo-retina> Mic: "Well, the problem is that "mobile" is among status that are mutually exclusive otherwise while it isn't." right. And "mobile" is in that list because we need to take it into account for sorting the availability of resources. 11:21:36 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 11:21:36 * ChanServ sets mode +o clokep 11:25:04 <-- Mic has quit (Input/output error) 11:25:05 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 11:25:06 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 11:26:30 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com) 11:26:35 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 11:26:35 * ChanServ sets mode +o clokep 11:29:45 <clokep> Mic: If you're still seeing that bug, I'll need exact STR. 11:29:52 <clokep> flo-retina: We have a bug about that you know. ;) 11:30:23 <flo-retina> clokep: we have bugs about lots of things that people disagree on ;) 11:30:51 <clokep> flo-retina: It is somewhat unfortunate that you can't be mobile + other statuses. 11:31:05 <flo-retina> clokep: sure. 11:31:19 <flo-retina> clokep: but what would you want to display in the status UI when you are mobile + unavailable? 11:31:47 <clokep> A phone and a red dot? :P 11:31:49 * clokep doesn't know 11:31:50 <flo-retina> or should we display the phone on the right side of the contact, and keep the status on the left? 11:31:57 <flo-retina> clokep: a red phone? :) 11:32:08 <clokep> Haha. 11:34:00 <clokep> flo-retina: I think it is reasonable to just always make them mobile, but I do wonder if it would be better to have that as a separate flag. 11:37:27 <clokep> The only issue I have with that is that if someone is signed in in multiple places, and the desktop is idle and the phone is mobile...I'd want to IM the phone. 11:37:58 <flo-retina> that's the problem 11:38:46 <flo-retina> it's almost impossible to guess if the user prefers not annoying the contact on his phone, and sending the message to the idle resource so that the contact sees it when he's back at his desk, or if the message needs to be delivered ASAP (ie to the phone) 11:45:12 <clokep> :-/ 11:54:31 --> Even2 has joined #instantbird 11:58:09 <-- Even2 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com) 12:02:34 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com) 12:17:58 <-- Mic has quit (Input/output error) 12:18:00 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 12:18:00 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 12:19:03 <-- Mic has quit (Input/output error) 12:19:04 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 12:19:04 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 12:20:58 <Mic> clokep: I'm seeing the bug only here but not on a freshly downloaded nightly with a new profile. 12:21:37 <Mic> Now this is cool :) 12:21:53 <Mic> I mean it was to be expected but actually seeing it is cool :) 12:24:52 --> rosonline has joined #instantbird 12:24:56 <Mic> (This was about the "already left"-highlighting of clokep's nick, just for the logs;) 12:39:09 <-- Optimizer1 has quit (Ping timeout) 12:51:19 --> Optimizer1 has joined #instantbird 12:57:15 --> clokep_work has joined #instantbird 12:57:16 * ChanServ sets mode +o clokep_work 12:57:46 <Mic> FeuerFliege: certainly not perfect yet but that's rather how I'd like to be asked for my master password: http://i.imgur.com/s3nSZ.png 12:58:12 <flo-retina> Mic: In the add-on manager window? 12:58:19 <Mic> :P 12:58:22 <flo-retina> Mic: I think I would like a placeholder in the blist window 12:59:05 <flo-retina> that would either let the user unlock the local profile with a master password, or connect as guest (enter the settings for one account to connect right now and forget after disconnecting), or connect as another user (downloading the important parts of the profile from a sync server) 13:00:56 <clokep_work> Sounds fancy. :) 13:01:03 <clokep_work> Mic: I'm glad it works for you now. 13:02:20 <Mic> clokep_work: I don't think it does... 13:04:39 <Mic> Ah, for some reason "omni.ja" wasn't updated while everything else was. 13:05:12 <clokep_work> Mic: That I can't take responsibility for. ;) 13:10:14 <FeuerFliege> Mic: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=397045 13:10:14 <FeuerFliege> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=461455 13:10:36 <flo-retina> Mic: that's a frequent way to fail updates. If only we could figure out why it does that... :( 13:10:38 <Mic> Running as guest is a good idea and synching profiles too but I'd see these as unrelated bugs (I don't like the idea to do this from within my own profile). 13:11:05 <clokep_work> Mic: "running as a guest" would be analogous to "private browsing mode" 13:15:30 <Mic> = Leave no tracks but be able to look into someone's (browsing|chat) history? :P 13:15:50 <flo-retina> Mic: if you are logged in as guest, obviously the logs aren't available 13:16:53 <Mic> Wouldn't spawning a new instance with a new profile be an easier solution? 13:16:54 --> deltafalcon has joined #instantbird 13:17:11 <clokep_work> Mic: However it's done doesn't really matter. The concept is what flo-retina was describing. 13:17:22 <flo-retina> Mic: do you mean technically, or from a user point of view? 13:17:43 <flo-retina> Mic: technically it may be easier to ensure data isolation. But for a user, I think it's a bit confusing to have several instances of the same application. 13:18:50 <Mic> On the other hand: for data isolation users should have different accounts on OS level. Full stop. :P 13:19:30 <flo-retina> Mic: nah, different computers. 13:19:54 <flo-retina> Mic: with separate local networks, and separate ISP subscriptions 13:19:55 <flo-retina> :-P 13:21:54 <Mic> Anyways, you know now how I'd like my password prompt to look like :) 13:23:26 <flo-retina> Mic: sure. It makes sense 13:23:47 <flo-retina> I'm not sure how much work there is to teach that to NSS though :( 13:39:15 <clokep_work> Probably a lot. ;) 13:39:33 <clokep_work> Mic: Yes, you're right about the memory reporters btw, someone fixed it already though. 13:42:08 <flo-retina> clokep_work: someone = me ;) 13:44:18 <clokep_work> That's what I figured, but I didn't remember. :) 13:44:24 <flo-retina> clokep_work: is it important to mention the pref to turn off show nick? 13:45:44 <clokep_work> flo-retina: I think some people might go "I don't want that feature! How do I shut it off?" 13:45:51 <clokep_work> But maybe we should make a list on the wiki of hidden prefs? 13:47:09 <flo-retina> or change the wording. The way it's currently phrased really looks to me like we want users to turn it off 13:49:03 <flo-retina> maybe "We are pretty excited about this cool new feature and hope you will enjoy it, but if you don't it's easy to turn it off by setting "messenger.conversations.showNicks" to false in the advanced configuration editor." 13:51:28 * clokep_work thinks a list on the wiki is a good idea anyway. ;) 13:53:40 <flo-retina> I'm not against it 13:53:54 <flo-retina> but I don't think it blocks the release. The release notes do. :) 13:54:14 <clokep_work> I didn't mean to imply it does. 13:54:22 <Mic> And one for obscure prefs like the loglevel thing ;) 13:54:28 <Mic> scnr 13:55:03 * flo-retina isn't sure what's obscure about loglevel 14:11:42 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Were there any other XMPP fixes for 1.3? (or IRC that people will care about)? 14:11:50 <clokep_work> Oh, the breaking of lines into multiple lines is kind of exciting? 14:12:19 <flo-retina> ah, yes, that's in interesting IRC fix :) 14:12:34 <flo-retina> from JS-XMPP, there's the priority that can now be set 14:12:58 <flo-retina> but... we are still using libpurple for generic XMPP, so actually the line about the legacy auth isn't relevant (it's relevant only for Tb17) 14:13:51 <-- rosonline has quit (Quit: Experimentem Instantbird 1.2 -- http://www.instantbird.com) 14:14:36 <clokep_work> Oh, right. :( 14:15:23 <flo-retina> I think we should find a way to add a pref to switch back and forth between libpurple XMPP and JS-XMPP 14:15:44 <flo-retina> or just go ahead and add DNS SRV support with a binary xpcom component 14:16:01 <flo-retina> (I would be ok with that for Ib, but it may be difficult for Tb...) 14:16:15 <Mic> flo-retina: I expected the order of the dot separated pieces to be different. 14:16:34 <Mic> It doesn't really matter.. 14:16:38 <flo-retina> Mic: is that about the release notes? 14:17:03 <Mic> No 14:17:33 <flo-retina> then I have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about :-S. 14:19:34 <-- Kaishi has quit (Quit: Kaishi) 14:19:40 --> Kaishi has joined #instantbird 14:19:55 * clokep_work doesn't know either. 14:20:04 <clokep_work> flo-retina: We'd need to support Bonjour too then. ;) 14:20:22 <flo-retina> clokep_work: why? 14:20:44 <flo-retina> is there any shared code between the xmpp prpl and the bonjour prpl? 14:20:57 <flo-retina> They both depend on libxml2, but I think that's it 14:21:33 <clokep_work> Oh, I thought Bonjour == XMPP over link local stuff? 14:23:16 <flo-retina> for the protocol yes, for the implementation in libpurple, I don't think they share much (except the dependency on libxml2) 14:23:30 <flo-retina> I may be wrong though :) 14:23:37 <clokep_work> Ohh. That seems silly. 14:26:10 <Mic> Maybe I should have included an example like "loglevel.irc" vs "irc.loglevel" to make clear what I was talking about. 14:27:08 <flo-retina> Mic: just saying you were still taking about the loglevel thing would have been enough I think :) 14:27:35 <flo-retina> Mic: or you could have said Mook's toy's syntax was obscure :-D 14:28:14 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Looks like you're correct and it doesn't depend on libpurple's xmpp code. 14:31:22 <Mic> Are you talking about enabling JS-XMPP for 1,3 btw? Or is that talk about post-1.3 work? 14:31:30 <Mic> *1.3 14:31:38 <clokep_work> Mic: Post. 14:31:54 <Mic> :) 14:32:35 --> mconley has joined #instantbird 14:32:41 <Mic> I was really wondering if it weren't be a bit late to do that for 1.3 14:34:50 <Mic> bye! 14:34:55 <-- Mic has quit (Input/output error) 14:35:00 <clokep_work> Mic: As far as I'm concerned the only thing that can go into 1.3 now is bug fixes. 14:36:59 <flo-retina> what can go in 1.3 is mostly https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=sw%3A1.3 14:37:17 <flo-retina> anybody volunteering for bug 1750? 14:37:22 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1750 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Warning: Use of Mutation Events is deprecated. Use MutationObserver instead. 14:37:59 <flo-retina> clokep_work: is it tonight or tomorrow that you are traveling? I don't remember your schedule :( 14:38:14 <clokep_work> flo-retina: I don't expect you to. :) Tomorrow night. 14:38:46 * clokep_work added bug 1767 to that list 14:38:49 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1767 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, New nightly can't auth with ZNC server 14:39:31 <flo-retina> sure 14:40:29 <flo-retina> and I'm tempted to add a few more JS-XMPP warning fixes (especially the "received stanza for unknown buddy" bogus warnings), but I'm not sure I'll have time 14:45:28 <instantbot> firstname.lastname@example.org requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 2065 on bug 1592. 14:45:31 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1592 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Update the glib version requirements on the website 14:46:31 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Can we commit bug 1638 too? :) 14:46:34 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1638 maj, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, update Instantbird F.A.Q. 14:48:15 <flo-retina> isn't that list of protocols already obsolete? 14:50:22 <clokep_work> It should have been committed for 1.2 then. :P 14:50:27 <clokep_work> I can update it if you want. 14:51:33 <flo-retina> if you care, please do :) 14:51:43 <flo-retina> is there anything else that needs to be added to the FAQ ? 14:52:02 <flo-retina> I think at some point we should add a "My operating system is no longer supported, what's the latest version I can use?" 14:52:46 <flo-retina> we have already EOL'ed Windows 2000 & XP < SP2, OS X 10.4 (and some old linux distributions, but I don't have a clear understanding of the situation there) 14:53:25 <flo-retina> I don't think instantbird ever worked on OS X 10.3 14:54:09 <flo-retina> for OS X 10.4, the last working version is 0.2 14:54:23 <flo-retina> for Win 2000 and XP pre-SP2, it's 1.1 14:54:54 <flo-retina> but maybe we will add that in the FAQ when EOFing OS X 10.5 for Ib 1.4 14:59:26 <clokep_work> flo-retina: That makes sense, but I won't have time to do that for now, but maybe we should file a bug. 15:00:17 <flo-retina> we will do it for 1.4 :) 15:00:24 <flo-retina> we aren't dropping any OS with 1.3 anyway 15:01:13 <-- FeuerFliege has quit (Ping timeout) 15:02:21 <clokep_work> flo-retina: "AIM, Bonjour, Facebook Chat, Gadu-Gadu, Google Talk, Groupwise, ICQ, IRC, MSN, MySpaceIM, Netsoul, Odnoklassniki, QQ, Simple, Twitter, VKontakte, XMPP, Yahoo and Yahoo JAPAN" is that the full list? 15:02:41 <flo-retina> seems to be :) 15:02:47 <flo-retina> it's easy to check with the account wizard ;) 15:06:00 <clokep_work> Touche. 15:22:01 <instantbot> email@example.com cancelled review?(florian@instantbird .org) for attachment 1872 on bug 1638. 15:22:02 <instantbot> firstname.lastname@example.org requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 2066 on bug 1638. 15:22:05 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1638 maj, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, update Instantbird F.A.Q. 15:33:44 <clokep_work> (For the record, I want that fixed just to get it out of my assigned list...) 15:34:54 <flo-retina> ahah :) 15:35:09 * flo-retina wants it out of his review queue ;) 15:35:50 <clokep_work> Sounds like a match made in heaven. ;) 15:36:13 <flo-retina> and that will also apply to SIPE I guess 15:36:40 <clokep_work> That'll most likely need another iteration. 15:36:42 <flo-retina> especially as you made it 3 times more visible by requesting review on a few attachements that you don't actually want reviewed :-D 15:37:32 <clokep_work> :-D 15:37:36 <clokep_work> I want it out of my review queue too! 15:37:51 <clokep_work> Hmm...I do want review on all three of those acutally. 15:38:12 <clokep_work> Just not on the fourth and fifth patches. ;) 15:44:46 <flo-retina> http://queze.net/goinfre/webrtc-fx-tb-2.png 15:45:27 <clokep_work> flo-retina: So if you keep typing does the video go off window? ;) 15:45:55 <flo-retina> now, the scrollbar is only for the text chat part 15:46:01 <flo-retina> as you can see on the Firefox side ;) 15:46:19 <clokep_work> Ah, so you can! :) 15:50:44 <flo-retina> clokep_work: it will look like this: http://i.minus.com/ibseQlK1f1ezLT.png 15:53:07 --> FireFly_TB has joined #instantbird 15:53:10 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Looks nice. :) 15:53:37 --> FeuerFliege has joined #instantbird 16:01:50 * clokep_work can't wait to play with it. 16:02:00 --> ivan has joined #instantbird 16:04:30 --> mikk_s has joined #instantbird 16:04:33 <-- mikk_s has quit (Quit: mikk_s) 16:05:19 <flo-retina> clokep_work: you want try server builds? 16:05:33 <instantbot> email@example.com denied review for attachment 2057 on bug 1751. 16:05:33 <flo-retina> (I think I'll produce some soon) 16:05:35 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1751 min, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, No feedback when the /nick command fails 16:16:37 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 16:16:38 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 16:19:38 <flo-retina> I wonder what codecs libpurple supports for they voice/video feature on XMPP/Linux. 16:23:49 <-- Optimizer1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com) 16:24:05 --> Optimizer has joined #instantbird 16:24:10 <aleth> flo-retina: That looks great :) 16:35:25 <clokep_work> flo-retina: https://developer.pidgin.im/wiki/vv 16:35:47 <flo-retina> how did you guess which page I was reading? 16:36:18 <aleth> Show nick system message variation https://i.minus.com/jbeOr2TvRRCjnR.png 16:37:21 <flo-retina> aleth: you removed the background? 16:37:28 <aleth> flo-retina: Yes, that's all. 16:37:37 <flo-retina> it's the border I would like to remove 16:37:52 <aleth> I tried that... it looks odd. 16:37:59 <flo-retina> I'm wondering if we could do something looking like the author of a message (with 2 rounded corners instead of 4) 16:38:18 <flo-retina> and maybe not only for system messages 16:38:35 <aleth> Or maybe just less rounded corners 16:38:46 <clokep_work> flo-retina: :) Figured you had found it already... 16:39:33 <flo-retina> clokep_work: what I'm wondering right now is: is there any point in implementing voice & video chat in Instantbird if it can only work between JS-XMPP instances (Ib & Tb) 16:39:55 <flo-retina> WebRTC doesn't have a single codec in common with gmail / gtalk :( 16:41:05 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Does it require h.264? 16:41:31 <clokep_work> flo-retina: It probably isn't really worth it then, no. Do they auto-negotiate a codec? 16:41:39 <flo-retina> https://developers.google.com/talk/call_signaling#Video 16:41:58 <flo-retina> clokep_work: we could maybe get audio calls to work between Ib and gtalk 16:42:21 <clokep_work> :( That's disappointing. 16:42:37 <flo-retina> (we have compatible codecs, although they suck a bit (approximately the same quality as a phone line)) 16:43:00 <flo-retina> I'm trying to find if there are other open source XMPP clients that would support VP8 16:43:13 <flo-retina> would be nice to have at least one non-JS-XMPP client to test with 16:43:24 <clokep_work> Right. 16:43:42 <clokep_work> I guess we would need https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=799318 to be fixed? 16:44:13 <flo-retina> wouldn't help 16:44:20 <flo-retina> that's for decoding, we need encoding. 16:45:00 <clokep_work> Ah. :( 16:46:07 <flo-retina> + that bug is mostly BenB arguing about which bug to use ;) 16:49:35 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Au revoir) 16:49:42 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 16:49:42 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 16:56:00 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Au revoir) 16:56:06 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 16:56:06 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 16:58:20 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Au revoir) 16:58:31 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 16:58:31 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 17:00:25 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Au revoir) 17:00:33 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 17:00:34 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 17:13:00 <-- Even1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com) 17:14:16 <flo-retina> The Jingle application format defined herein is designed to meet the following requirements: [...] Map these parameters to Session Description Protocol (SDP; see RFC 4566 ) to enable interoperability." http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0167.html#reqs 17:14:20 <flo-retina> That's encouraging :) 17:21:22 <flo-retina> for audio, it's not too bad: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0266.html#codecs 17:21:54 <flo-retina> We have G.711 (which is required) and Opus (which is described as "not widely implemented, but 'the codec of the future'). 17:22:11 <flo-retina> http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0176.html is another very relevant spec. 17:28:08 --> rosonline has joined #instantbird 17:30:46 <-- FireFly_TB has quit (Quit: blubb blubb) 17:37:24 <-- flo-retina has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com) 17:42:26 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 17:42:27 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 17:44:37 <Mic> I had tried this on the extension before and didn't like the look of it either. http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/today/#m409 17:44:58 <aleth> flo: fwiw, doesn't skype use VP8? 17:49:55 <Kaishi> aleth: skype just got a new codec 17:54:56 <clokep_work> aleth: SkypeKit handles it's own encoding/decoding, I think. 17:54:59 <clokep_work> Kaishi: It did? When? 17:55:16 <Kaishi> very recently. 17:55:36 <Kaishi> it may be using the same codec as the new codec used by mumble 17:55:54 --> Mook_as has joined #instantbird 17:55:54 <Kaishi> http://blogs.skype.com/en/2012/09/skype_and_a_new_audio_codec.html 17:56:06 <Kaishi> Opus is the name 17:56:11 --> flo-retina has joined #instantbird 17:56:11 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo-retina flo-retina 17:56:15 <Kaishi> and it's the one used by mumble too, just checked 17:56:24 <Kaishi> it's open source as I recall 17:57:08 <flo-retina> Kaishi: Opus is an audio codec 17:57:14 <flo-retina> Kaishi: we support Opus too. 17:57:46 <Kaishi> okay, now I feel dumb, sorry. I hear skype and I think audio, wasn't even thinking about VP8 being a video codec 17:57:47 <Kaishi> I apologize >_< 17:58:02 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Au revoir) 17:58:04 <flo-retina> no problem :) 17:58:08 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 17:58:08 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 17:58:11 <Kaishi> there's audio and video support coming to instantbird? 17:58:23 <flo-retina> Kaishi: not sure, but we were discussing it 17:58:32 <Kaishi> ah 17:58:40 <flo-retina> (I think yes :)) 17:58:44 <Kaishi> well if it happens, I'm sure it will be welcome :) 17:58:50 --> mikk_s has joined #instantbird 17:58:56 <flo-retina> but I prefer not giving a confident "yes" until it actually works. 17:59:07 <flo-retina> and it may be in several months 17:59:07 <Kaishi> agreed on that method 17:59:11 <-- mikk_s has left #instantbird () 17:59:29 <flo-retina> and if it's not compatible with any other client, it's disappointing 17:59:47 <Kaishi> one of my hobbies is beer making, and if someone asks if it's good, I'd rather just let them try it themselves :) but at a party last weekend, we did go through 4 gallons of it >_> 18:00:55 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Au revoir) 18:01:00 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 18:01:00 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 18:01:09 <-- aleth has quit (Input/output error) 18:01:11 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 18:01:11 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 18:25:59 <clokep_work> Kaishi: Ah, yes they have their own codec. :) 18:26:12 --> wesj1 has joined #instantbird 18:26:18 <clokep_work> flo-retina: I'd really like that to be "yes". :) Might be a kind of bad user experience...but... 18:26:37 <clokep_work> We could pref it off? ;) 18:27:26 <flo-retina> clokep_work: I don't think we would need to pref it off 18:27:50 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Does Mozilla list their supported codecs anywhere? 18:27:51 <flo-retina> clokep_work: we could just restrict it to Ib<->Ib 18:28:24 <flo-retina> clokep_work: opus, PCMU and PCMA for audio; VP8 for video 18:28:28 <flo-retina> it's listed in the SDP offer ;) 18:30:04 <aleth> Ib<->Ib, Ib<->Tb already isn't bad... 18:30:25 <aleth> Minor variation https://i.minus.com/jbgQsJJXRKe4k.png 18:32:00 <aleth> Empathy supports Jingle/ICE for SIP/XMPP/Gtalk 18:32:34 <aleth> empathy-empathy uses ogg theora, for gtalk it uses h264 18:32:59 <clokep_work> Apparently a bunch of protocols just use raw SIP for voice/video... 18:33:04 <flo-retina> isn't empathy supposed to support VP8? 18:33:07 <clokep_work> Could be a win by implementing SIP itself then... 18:33:09 <flo-retina> or is that ubuntu-only? 18:33:51 <aleth> If telepathy supports it, empathy should too 18:34:26 <flo-retina> it's quite possible it just uses whatever the gstreamer installed on the system supports 18:34:56 <aleth> It certainly doesn't implement the codecs 18:37:55 <aleth> This padge doesn't list the actual codecs http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/ 18:38:12 <aleth> http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Protocols%20Support 18:39:22 <aleth> No mention of vp8 https://live.gnome.org/Empathy/FAQ#Which_video_codec_do_I_need.3F 18:40:48 --> Mnyromyr has joined #instantbird 18:41:30 <-- flo-retina has quit (Ping timeout) 18:44:56 --> flo-retina has joined #instantbird 18:44:56 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo-retina flo-retina 18:45:19 <-- Optimizer has quit (Ping timeout) 18:47:41 <clokep_work> I think some of those just use whatever gstreamer supports, yes. 18:49:16 --> Optimizer has joined #instantbird 18:50:18 <aleth> clokep_work: They have websites where it is hard to find any answers... 18:53:26 <flo-retina> it's sad that my phone currently has much more bandwidth than my cable connection :( 18:54:32 <aleth> flo-retina: You're not having any luck with that ISP :-/ 18:54:55 <flo-retina> clokep_work: isn't this something that I shouldn't see? "NickServ: This nick is owned by someone else. Please choose another.\nNickServ: (If this is your nick, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY password.)\nNickServ: Password accepted - you are now recognized." 18:55:32 <-- Optimizer has quit (Ping timeout) 18:55:42 <flo-retina> aleth: yeah, I keep wondering if I need to subscribe to a dsl plan for a backup solution ;) 18:57:47 <aleth> changed padding and less border-radius: https://i.minus.com/jIMb1r6bVDTiv.png 18:58:25 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Was that on sign on? 18:58:57 --> Optimizer has joined #instantbird 18:59:52 <aleth> well, that's about the spectrum of options without changing the look more drastically I think... 19:00:26 * Mook_as finds the border around the nick distracting 19:01:10 <Mook_as> for the ones on non-system messages, anyway 19:03:21 <Mic> aleth: try different border-radius for top left/bottom right and the other corners. 19:04:05 <Mic> Maybe something like 5px for top-left+bottom-right and .. 2px or 3px for the other. 19:04:06 <aleth> Mic: I tried something like that and it just looked wrong inside the message bubble 19:04:22 <Mic> This will definitely break with different font sizes though. 19:04:51 <clokep_work> Can't you use em then? 19:05:18 <clokep_work> flo-retina: I mean, you sohuldn't see that. But we only wait one second before displaying that. Is your network really slow right now? 19:05:24 * clokep_work sees you complaining about your ISP. :P 19:05:53 <aleth> clokep_work: I agree, it probably just missed the timeout. 19:06:31 <clokep_work> Maybe 2 or 3 seconds is more reasonable? 19:07:32 <Mic> Bot bad, imo: http://i.imgur.com/eVOlZ.png 19:07:53 <Mic> *Not 19:08:33 <flo-retina> clokep_work: "flo-retina: Was that on sign on?" I think it was after rebooting the modem (and I was pleasantly surprised to see that it rejoined automatically the password protected channel I was in) 19:09:29 <clokep_work> flo-retina: :) I'm glad someone is using that feature! 19:11:11 <flo-retina> clokep_work: the timestamps are:http://pastebin.instantbird.com/97813 19:11:38 <aleth> Mic: I suspect that's a bit took eccentric for a default though... 19:11:40 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Well they COULD be more than a second apart. 19:11:49 <Mic> aleth: that's border-radius: 5px 2px; by the way 19:12:39 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Au revoir) 19:12:45 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 19:12:45 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 19:12:58 <-- wesj1 has quit (Ping timeout) 19:13:02 <Mic> It's reusing the shape from the nick in the bubble corner and softens the other corners by adding a small borderradius 19:13:14 <Mic> I think it goes well with Bubbles 19:14:00 <flo-retina> what does it look like without the border and with more padding? 19:14:18 <flo-retina> and why is there a 1px margin between the message author and the main bubble border? 19:14:24 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Au revoir) 19:14:31 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 19:14:32 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 19:15:40 <Mic> flo-retina: I don't know, I suspect the contrast between the color might be too low in some cases. 19:15:53 <Mic> *colors 19:17:22 <Mic> The top left main bubble border with the nick section always looked like this by the way 19:17:37 <aleth> flo-retina: It's subtle, but maybe we want subtle, idk... https://i.minus.com/ibai8iMTKfWdz3.png 19:18:03 <flo-retina> Mic: "The top left main bubble border with the nick section always looked like this by the way" it's horribly ugly. I don't see that on Mac. 19:18:47 <aleth> Mic: That gap looks broken to me too. Are you on a nonstandard zoom level? 19:19:14 <Mic> No 19:20:09 <Mic> I suspect it's using the same border radius for the main bubble and the nick area 19:20:44 <aleth> But why is it broken only on WIndows? 19:20:50 <-- deltafalcon has quit (Connection reset by peer) 19:21:22 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Au revoir) 19:21:28 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 19:21:29 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 19:22:10 <Mic> gtg 19:22:24 * aleth has an idea 19:23:29 <Mic> Here's a larger image by the way: http://i.imgur.com/8rXOh.png 19:23:37 <Mic> I like it. 19:23:44 <aleth> No, it's not due to the font as far as I can tell. 19:23:52 <Mic> I 19:23:58 <aleth> Mic: the 1-pixel gap? 19:24:19 <Mic> Zoom in and look where the gap appears. 19:26:12 <Mic> It's using the same border-radius for both elements. That's the cause. The fix is to reduce border radius of the inner one. I'm really convinced of that. 19:26:30 <Mic> bye 19:26:33 <-- Mic has quit (Input/output error) 19:26:46 <aleth> Hmm, could be... as long as that then doesn't break it elsewhere... 19:29:30 <flo-retina> http://i.minus.com/iQM5VRMHFvNAT.png 19:33:40 <flo-retina> I like the way nicks look on Mic's http://i.imgur.com/8rXOh.png but it seems to make a lot more visible the misbalanced spacings that I already disliked but aren't very visible currently. 19:35:43 <aleth> flo-retina: Similar but symmetric https://i.minus.com/j5X3BTH2IDOQj.png 19:36:34 <flo-retina> which nick are you showing there? 19:36:55 <aleth> awahlig? 19:37:07 <aleth> And those two system message ones of course 19:37:56 <flo-retina> what about dropping the borders of the 2 system message ones, and displaying the border for the left nick, and the background like for a message nick in the other one, only on hover, and with a transition (like Dark does) 19:38:23 <aleth> umm... I think you should try it ;) 19:38:34 <aleth> Probably faster than trying to explain :P 19:39:01 <flo-retina> pfff 19:39:10 <aleth> I don't actually mind the border on the system message ones now I've set the border colour to the background colour and adjusted the padding a bit 19:39:30 <flo-retina> I dislike these borders :-P 19:41:37 <aleth> The trouble without borders is left nicks 19:42:30 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird 19:42:54 <flo-retina> so you really didn't understand what I said at all? 19:43:14 <aleth> Not the last part. 19:43:39 <flo-retina> ok, so let me try again: For the left nick, display as on your screenshot when the nick is hovered. Display without the border otherwise. 19:43:46 <aleth> I understood about borders-just-for-left-nicks, sure. 19:44:09 <flo-retina> For the other in status-message-not-left nick, display as in a regular message when hovered. Display without the background color when not hovered. 19:45:56 <aleth> Ah, OK. 19:46:26 <flo-retina> and for the hovered/not hovered transitions, take the css transition from the Dark theme (ie use the same transition time) 19:47:01 <aleth> That smaller font size looks a bit odd when there is no background or border. 19:47:53 <aleth> Though maybe it's just different. 19:48:40 <flo-retina> what I'm trying to do is reducing the visual noise 19:49:15 <aleth> Yes. Mook_as was right that removing the border (in normal messages) helps with that 19:50:11 <aleth> Though it also can lead to a kind of unfortunate effect when you have eg green on red 19:50:43 <flo-retina> there's still a background 19:50:47 <aleth> I was going to experiment with a border that was just a _little_ bit darker than the background, but those lightness values are hardcoded 19:51:47 <flo-retina> heh, you don't want to mess with that (except if you have plenty of time ;)) 19:51:59 <aleth> That's what I thought ;) 19:52:21 <aleth> Looks like someone spent some time with a complicated spreadsheet at some point... 19:52:49 <aleth> the colour contrast thing -> https://i.minus.com/j0xEkqPBrStdb.png 19:53:36 <flo-retina> right, that's ugly :( 19:53:48 <aleth> The border does help prevent that. 19:58:39 --> gerard-majax has joined #instantbird 20:02:56 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Half the stuff in that email is like "Oh this is a little thing, but can you add <something that takes an insane amount of work for little gain>." :( 20:03:12 <flo-retina> he wants about:config! :) 20:03:40 <flo-retina> but otherwise, he just wants skype, file transfer, voice & video. That's easy, right? : 20:03:41 <flo-retina> ) 20:04:25 <EionRobb> did someone say FT? :P 20:07:30 <-- EionRobb has quit (Quit: Leaving.) 20:08:24 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird 20:10:26 <clokep_work> EionRobb is trolling our mailing list now too... 20:10:42 <EionRobb> lol 20:13:00 <clokep_work> Speaking of mailing lists. What does it take to switch from Google Groups to our new mailing list? :-D 20:15:10 <clokep_work> flo-retina: He also wants some crazy IT mode thing that sounds like a great extension idea. :P 20:16:24 <flo-retina> I didn't understand that part 20:16:40 <flo-retina> "What does it take to switch from Google Groups to our new mailing list?" probably almost nothing 20:17:03 <flo-retina> are we all subscribed to the mailing list? (is team AT instantbird.org subscribed?) 20:18:47 <clokep_work> I think it is, yes. 20:18:53 * clokep_work checks. 20:19:57 <clokep_work> team@ is on support.instantbird, but not dev.chat. 20:20:15 <clokep_work> I could add it or add individual's email address (which should work better if people want to change how they get mail, etc.) 20:22:47 <clokep_work> (Or I can just add team@...) 20:23:11 <clokep_work> The only other thing to do is to email the Google Group list and let them know 20:23:34 <flo-retina> it may be better to add the individual emails in both cases, as otherwise we will still have broken reply-to: headers from the google group :-/ 20:23:45 <clokep_work> I agree. 20:24:01 <clokep_work> Isn't (active) team@ just aleth Mic Even you and me? 20:24:19 <flo-retina> seems right 20:25:48 <clokep_work> OK, I think I have everyone's address. 20:28:45 <clokep_work> flo-retina: Do you want me to make that change to both of them? I'll make all those people unmoderated this way too. 20:29:48 <flo-retina> sounds good to me 20:29:58 * clokep_work needs to find Even's email... 20:31:43 <clokep_work> Got it. :) 20:34:19 <clokep_work> Ah the list is acutally unmoderated from subscribers. Just unsubscribed emails are moderated. 20:36:08 <-- spiffytech has quit (Ping timeout) 20:40:59 --> spiffytech has joined #instantbird 20:54:48 <instantbot> New Core - General bug 1774 filed by firstname.lastname@example.org. 20:54:49 <instantbot> email@example.com requested review from firstname.lastname@example.org for attachment 2067 on bug 1774. 20:54:50 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1774 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Localize the VKontakte/Odnoklassniki chat names 20:55:27 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Au revoir) 20:55:40 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 20:55:41 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 20:56:20 --> unghost has joined #instantbird 20:59:21 * clokep_work doesn' tknow if he should dup that bug or r+ it. :( 21:01:24 <clokep_work> (Well r- it, actually.) 21:02:26 <instantbot> email@example.com set the Resolution field on bug 1774 to DUPLICATE of bug 1769. 21:02:29 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1774 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO DUPLICATE, Localize the VKontakte/Odnoklassniki chat names 21:02:30 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1769 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Make names of protocols localizable 21:04:19 <instantbot> firstname.lastname@example.org requested review from email@example.com for attachment 2059 on bug 1769. 21:10:26 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Au revoir) 21:10:36 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 21:10:36 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 21:15:20 <clokep_work> unghost: Do you agree it doesn't make sense to translate "IRC" and "XMPP"? 21:15:22 --> flo has joined #instantbird 21:15:22 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 21:15:58 <flo> so now I saw NickServ tabs for both freenode and moznet, after restarting for an update 21:16:00 <unghost> clokep_work, yes. 21:16:13 <unghost> no need to translate them 21:16:16 <flo> there's probably something broken over there 21:16:18 <flo> :( 21:17:35 <flo> clokep_work: I lol'ed @ "I really don't want people putting "Jabber" instead of "XMPP"" Reminded me of a totally unproductive debate in a BMO bug a while ago :) 21:21:25 <Mook_as> the only solution is to put neither :p 21:22:30 <clokep_work> flo: Yes. A lot of people seemed to care about it for some reason. (o_O) 21:23:14 <clokep_work> Thanks unghost. :) 21:24:17 <-- rosonline has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 21:25:21 <flo> clokep_work: it was totally bikesheding ;) 21:30:42 <clokep_work> :) 21:30:48 * clokep_work is going home. 21:31:00 <clokep_work> Well first I'm going to go see if they have the new Nokia Lumia in the AT&T store. ;) 21:33:37 <-- clokep_work has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com) 21:44:29 <-- unghost has quit (Quit: Ð£Ñ Ð¾Ð¶Ñ Ñ Ð¾Ñ Ð²Ð°Ñ (xchat 2.4.5 Ð¸Ð»Ð¸ ÑÑÐ°ÑÑÐµ)) 21:48:04 <-- FeuerFliege has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com) 22:25:00 <-- Mnyromyr has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [SeaMonkey 1.1.19/2010030105]) 22:36:37 <-- mconley has quit (Input/output error) 22:40:54 <-- Kaishi has quit (Quit: Kaishi) 22:41:00 --> Kaishi has joined #instantbird 22:55:40 <flo> clokep: is it expected that I received a welcome message for dev-chat, a "You have been unsubscribed" from support-instantbird on firstname.lastname@example.org, and not a welcome message for support-instantbird on my own email address? 23:06:29 <-- gerard-majax has quit (Ping timeout) 23:14:09 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Au revoir) 23:14:41 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 23:14:41 * ChanServ sets mode +o clokep 23:21:14 --> wesj1 has joined #instantbird 23:21:26 <clokep> flo: You were already signed up for support-instantbird, I didn't sign you up again. 23:21:32 <clokep> (With your gmail address) 23:22:01 <flo-retina> ah, ok 23:22:03 <flo-retina> I didn't know that 23:22:17 <flo-retina> so i guess I should move the email redirection for contact @ ib now? :) 23:24:00 <clokep> Yes please! :-D 23:26:39 <flo-retina> what should it point to? 23:28:10 <clokep> flo-retina: email@example.com 23:28:16 <clokep> (https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-instantbird for reference...) 23:29:22 <flo-retina> done 23:29:30 <flo-retina> it should work in ~5 minutes 23:30:59 <clokep> :) 23:31:15 <clokep> Thanks! 23:31:57 <flo-retina> we have very few @instantbird.com emails 23:33:21 <flo-retina> basically there's only flo@ florian@ idechix@ and a few boring ones (root, admin, webmaster, postmaster) 23:33:40 <flo-retina> (I looked as I was wondering if I also needed to change a contact @ ib.com address, but it never existed) 23:34:18 * clokep has an @instantbird.org 23:34:27 <flo-retina> I know that 23:34:35 <flo-retina> there are lots of @ib.org addresses 23:34:39 <clokep> I didn't know there were .com ones too! :P 23:34:42 <flo-retina> including many pointless ones 23:34:58 <flo-retina> clokep: the .com just redirect to the same address ending in .org ;) 23:35:20 <clokep> Hahah. 23:40:46 <flo-retina> Good night :) 23:40:57 <clokep> Bye!