#instantbird log on 09 06 2012

All times are UTC.

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00:39:32 <clokep> aleth: I have 4 connections to twitter?
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02:51:50 <instant-buildbot> build #622 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/622
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04:40:19 <instant-buildbot> build #700 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/700
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06:08:58 <instant-buildbot> build #606 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/606
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10:20:06 <clokep> Interesting: http://xnotifier.tobwithu.com/wp/forums/topic/x-notifier-for-instantbird
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10:56:25 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm granted review for attachment 1900 on bug 1457.
10:56:27 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1457 min, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Make use of all WHOWAS 312/314 response pairs
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11:52:21 <flo1> "http://www.instantbird.com/, its what Thunderbird’s new messenger is built on." sounds a lot nicer to me than "it's built on Pidgin" ;)
11:52:33 <clokep_work> aleth: You're OK with it storing the array or would you rather it just only keep the newest one?
11:52:35 <clokep_work> flo1: I agree. :)
11:52:52 * flo1 is now known as flo
11:56:04 <flo> I haven't read the whole post. Does he plan to put that on AIO?
11:57:12 * flo would also suggest inviting him here to get help for the things he still wants to improve (especially "using Instantbird accounts to create x-notification accounts")
11:57:30 <clokep_work> flo: I had replied to his tweet asking him to, he said he's waiting for permission from the original author.
11:57:42 <flo> clokep_work: cool :)
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12:02:38 <flo> https://twitter.com/lhirlimann/status/243680267020144640
12:04:27 <clokep_work> I don't get it...
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12:15:03 <aleth> clokep_work: I'm OK with the array - then if anyone ever cares enough they can try to sort it ;)
12:15:41 <aleth> It's good to keep the information anyway.
12:16:08 <clokep_work> aleth: Right I originally had it so I could sort it and then got annoyed at JS dates being awful.
12:16:20 <aleth> clokep_work: I don't blame you.
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12:16:42 <aleth> It would be hard not to get annoyed at JS dates ;)
12:17:07 <aleth> Nice to see someone implementing often-requested features via add-on :)
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13:38:08 <clokep_work> aleth: You have any ideas about that IRC conversation window freeze thing? (bug 1669)
13:38:16 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1669 maj, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Certain IRC channels cause freeze in conversation window.
13:38:26 <clokep_work> I don't see anything special about the messages he shows in the conversation window...
13:38:34 <clokep_work> s/conversation window/error console/
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13:43:43 <aleth> I don't understand why/how the conv binding breaks, but then I don't even understand why we would be adding a nick twice. What does the 338 message mean? (isactually)
13:44:50 * clokep_work doesn't know.
13:46:32 <aleth> I mean, the one thing we can see is that for some reason we send a chat-buddy-add notification twice for the same participant
13:46:56 <aleth> So the guy JOINs but is already in the channel somehow
13:47:10 <clokep_work> Right, but it's not clear whether he really did join again or if the server is doing crazy stuff.
13:47:23 <clokep_work> (LIke did we miss a part/quit, or is the server sending two joins)
13:48:31 <aleth> Well, the odd thing is that getParticipant does not send a chat-buddy-add if the participant already exists.
13:48:48 <aleth> So somehow he leaves the channel but not the binding?
13:52:32 * clokep_work isn't sure. :(
13:52:56 <clokep_work> I need the actual full log.
13:53:14 <clokep_work> Usually what happens right /before/ the error is more important then the error and the errors that occur because one thing errored.
13:55:14 <flo> I suspect something throws an exception while we leave the channel, and prevents us from cleaning up the list of existing nicks
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14:00:10 <aleth> Yes, what is needed on both screenshots is the earlier history ;)
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14:00:36 <flo> we need a much better error console
14:00:56 <flo> so that people can copy/paste(bin) relevant errors easily
14:01:16 <aleth> The missing "select/copy all" in the error console is a real pain.
14:02:06 <flo> aleth: you would still want to be able to copy only things related to one account, or one connection attempt
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14:03:28 <aleth> Yes... but even having a complete copy would be an improvement already, better than screenshots
14:04:48 <aleth> But I suspect if there had been other earlier errors in the console he would have mentioned/copied them
14:06:34 <flo> aleth: except if they scrolled out, because the interesting error happened when he had a network disconnection, and all accounts reconnected, with a few hundred messages going to the console during the reconnect ;)
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14:06:39 <aleth> Maybe we should add a dropdown to the error console that allows setting loglevel easily for any account.
14:07:24 <aleth> Obviously not the account-specific console one would wish for, but still...
14:08:53 <aleth> It wouldn't fix the problem you mention though.
14:09:28 <clokep_work> aleth, flo: I also find it extremely annoying that copying and pasting an IRC message copies the file, line number, etc. that says it was 'Unhandled', I just want the message!
14:10:00 <flo> clokep_work: that one is easy to fix!
14:10:26 <clokep_work> Is it?
14:10:37 <flo> just don't use the DEBUG/LOG/WARN/ERROR helpers we wrote *specifically* to add that information ;)
14:11:22 <flo> hmm, would only work for the "message" severity though, not for warnings/errors
14:11:42 <flo> hmm, except if the copy/paste doesn't add anything if these fields are empty :)
14:12:47 <clokep_work> Oh? Hmm....
14:15:00 <dewmugg> if you put conversations on hold it will keep them in memory right?
14:15:10 <flo> dewmugg: yes
14:15:42 <dewmugg> ah that would explain why my memory usage is getting up there :P
14:15:47 <dewmugg> 500 MB currently
14:15:53 <flo> dewmugg: wait. Are you asking if it will lose any information to put them on hold (it won't), or if it will release some memory (it will)?
14:16:18 <dewmugg> I'm asking if it will release them from memory after a point
14:16:51 <flo> dewmugg: it's releasing the memory that was used to display the messages. It won't release the messages themselves. But messages shouldn't be taking too much memory.
14:16:58 <flo> except maybe if you have 10k messages in the conversation :).
14:17:25 <dewmugg> yes I do
14:17:34 <dewmugg> they're irc channels here on mozilla server
14:17:40 <flo> how do you end up with that many messages? :)
14:17:57 <flo> even on #developers I rarely have more than 1000 or 2000 messages
14:18:05 <dewmugg> I put I think channel #firefox on hold and #rust
14:18:24 <flo> that shouldn't take 500MB anyway
14:18:33 <dewmugg> #rust has 13420 and #developers has 15546
14:18:52 <flo> how so you aren't on nightlies and restarting them everyday :)
14:19:17 <dewmugg> I guess because I never read them :P
14:19:55 <flo> it may make sense to "drop" old messages from the conversation when there are 1000+ newer messages
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14:20:13 <clokep_work> Probably.
14:20:20 <flo> what would make it difficult is that you probably don't want to drop messages mentioning you
14:21:09 <flo> (and probably want to keep some context before the first message mentioning you)
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14:22:54 <clokep_work> :-/
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14:32:50 <dewmugg> but do they have to be in memory?
14:32:58 <dewmugg> I mean couldn't they be written to the log
14:33:15 <dewmugg> and when you open the conversation the log it written to memory?
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14:35:28 <clokep_work> They are written to the log.
14:37:17 <dewmugg> I mean after a while they can be dropped from memory
14:37:27 <dewmugg> and then when we need them we read from the log
14:37:32 <flo> dewmugg: theoretically yes. Currently the code reading messages from the log isn't in a good enough shape that I would be confident relying on that
14:38:03 <flo> but it's definitely an use case for some of the things we are currently cooking
14:38:09 <dewmugg> :D
14:38:35 <clokep_work> dewmugg: Interesting in implementing it? ;)
14:39:33 <dewmugg> I'm a nub with javascript
14:39:41 <dewmugg> I'm still trying to learn python :/
14:39:55 <flo> what makes you think python is easier? :)
14:40:03 <dewmugg> I'm about to write my own irc bot in c though
14:40:05 <clokep_work> Only way to learn is to try it out and use it!
14:40:14 * clokep_work cringes.
14:40:15 <dewmugg> I have this project I forked and I don't like it
14:40:18 <clokep_work> Why c?
14:40:21 <dewmugg> I'm thinking about just rewriting it
14:40:26 <dewmugg> because that's what I'm best in
14:40:30 <clokep_work> String handling in C is...painful...
14:40:38 <dewmugg> my university focused on C++
14:40:59 <flo> still better than focusing on Java :)
14:41:01 <dewmugg> yeah but aren't there some cool boost libraries for that?
14:41:06 <dewmugg> I agree
14:41:41 <dewmugg> because I later got to write C to run on an 8051 microcontroller
14:41:46 <dewmugg> which I found amazing
14:42:08 <flo> seems like a good use case for a low level language, yes :)
14:45:24 <clokep_work> "cool" and "boost libraries" don't belong in the same sentence IMO. ;)
14:45:38 <clokep_work> But go for it, if you want. :)
14:45:56 <flo> clokep_work: I resisted writing a similar comment, because I know lots of people would strongly disagree and I didn't want to start a troll :)
14:48:21 <clokep_work> Oops. O:-)
14:50:30 <dewmugg> I'm just most familiar with C and it's cross platform
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14:52:16 <clokep_work> Right.
14:52:24 <clokep_work> What do you want this bot to do, out of curiosity?
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15:03:33 <dewmugg> I want it to learn to speak by idling in channels and listening what others say
15:04:17 <dewmugg> I have it working already but it's a fork of someone's old code and I want to start a new one from scratch and try to apply some design principles to it
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15:18:19 <clokep_work> Ah, interesting.
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15:20:40 <dewmugg> yeah reinspired by google
15:21:07 <dewmugg> they released like 1TB of data on word associations they got from their indexed books
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16:56:17 <clokep_work> Anyone have thoughts on http://pastebin.instantbird.com/72728?
16:57:41 <Mook_as> Might want to include special instructions on using the google groups version (assuming that's working), for easier transition
16:58:05 <Mook_as> (... even though I hate how horrible google groups interaction withe the mailman/giganews parts are)
17:01:31 <clokep_work> I don't think that part is fully working yet...but I could point to that too.
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17:06:16 <clokep_work> Yeah those still aren't up. :( I referenced that now though.
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20:49:53 <clokep_work> So apparently one of the IRC bouncers (bip) differentiates it's account by the password you log into it with, so some guy is complaining that all the accounts in Thunderbird have the same name and there's no way to change them. 
20:50:05 <clokep_work> I responded saying it was a bug he could create multiple of the same account anyway. ;)
20:50:36 <clokep_work> But that seems like a really awful way of differentiating...
20:53:23 <aleth> I don't understand - what's forcing him to use the same IRC password for each account?
20:56:15 <clokep_work> No, different passwords.
20:57:18 <aleth> oh, bip passwords?
20:57:26 <clokep_work> Yes.
20:57:37 <aleth> Who came up with that idea...
20:57:53 <clokep_work> Seems to me like it would make a lot more sense to user different usernames...
20:58:30 * clokep_work hates users that tell you about the code you wrote...
21:04:34 <clokep_work> I guess the solution (for bip) would be to stop ensuring account names are unique and let you name them...
21:04:42 <clokep_work> But I'm not sure if that works w/ libpurple. :)
21:05:50 <aleth> What does the user want? Is there some bip-specific stuff he is asking for?
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21:07:40 <aleth> Btw I had the following (loose) idea for bug 1699
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21:08:39 <clokep_work> aleth: He's just trying to use bip with Thunderbird.
21:08:47 <aleth> No idea what would cause it, but if the binding "forgot" it's this.conv, but kept existing, wouldn't that potentially explain those errors?
21:09:01 <aleth> s/'/
21:09:29 <clokep_work> I don't think there's a bug 1699...
21:09:34 <clokep_work> bug 1669?
21:09:37 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1669 maj, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Certain IRC channels cause freeze in conversation window.
21:09:44 <aleth> yup, that's the one.
21:09:50 <clokep_work> I guess it possibly could.
21:09:52 <clokep_work> Why would that happen? :P
21:10:13 <aleth> No idea. Was just trying to work backwards... 
21:10:23 <aleth> Really we don't have enough data.
21:10:32 <clokep_work> Yup
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23:06:16 <clokep> aleth: I'm going to idle in that channel tonight and see if I can reproduce that bug.
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23:14:42 <clokep> aleth: Btw I'm liking that Twitter patch with the topics. :)
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