#instantbird log on 08 08 2012

All times are UTC.

00:00:04 <flo> and starting with 0.2 we supported translation of libpurple
00:00:18 <EionRobb> as long as its not c++ you can compile on msvc or gcc and not have compatiblity problems
00:00:22 <aleth> EionRobb: oh, are you the one guy still using 0.2 who shows up in the add-on stats? ;)
00:00:27 <EionRobb> haha
00:00:42 <flo> EionRobb: mixing binaries built with MSVC and mingw is a reciepe for trouble. The time_t values for example don't have the same number of bits, so pointers tend to be crashy ;)
00:01:02 <clokep> flo: Because I was writing it in wordpress.
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00:12:51 <clokep> Should I schedule that post for some point or...?
00:15:52 <flo> probably better to post it tomorrow at some time when we are all around, right?
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00:19:16 <clokep> I agree. :)
00:19:23 <clokep> flo: We can post it in the morning?
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00:20:09 <flo> clokep: morning for americans, early afternoon for me maybe?
00:20:33 <flo> should we send another email to translators?
00:26:22 <clokep> flo: Yes, that sounds right.
00:40:43 <flo> good night
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02:56:37 <instant-buildbot> build #587 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/587
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04:38:15 <instant-buildbot> build #670 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/670
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06:12:57 <instant-buildbot> build #576 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/576
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09:26:17 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 
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10:18:24 <clokep> Good morning!
10:19:38 <flo> Hello :)
10:30:11 <clokep> What time are we doing this? :P
10:30:56 <flo> which blog post draft is the latest?
10:31:02 <flo> or should I login to wordpress?
10:33:54 <clokep> It's in wordpress saved as a draft.
10:33:59 <clokep> So that probably makes the most sense.
10:34:06 <clokep> (So you can preview it, also see the links, etc.)
10:34:56 <flo> "You can read the full list of changes in the release notes." doesn't feel like it should be the second sentence of the first paragraph
10:35:21 <flo> "don't currently use Instantbird" -> "don't use Instantbird yet" ?
10:37:10 <flo> "privacy on the web" -> on the Internet?
10:37:38 <clokep> Those changes all sound OK.
10:38:41 <flo> can I edit way more and/or just add one more paragraph? :)
10:38:59 <clokep> Yes.
10:38:59 <flo> I think we should say there's no major new feature, *and* say that there was a major rewrite
10:39:05 <clokep> Please do.
10:39:28 <flo> and that we are excited to now be fully in control of both our IRC and XMPP implemenations
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10:41:34 <flo> the "Even though Instantbird 1.2 took way more time than we originally expected, we are confident that you will like lots of little details that make this new version of Instantbird even more user friendly and polished than before." sentence doesn't seem useful, it's duplicated with what's already said before
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10:42:50 <clokep> Feel free to remove it then. Kind of added it at the end anyway.
10:47:18 <clokep> I guess it needs tags added too btw.
10:56:07 <flo> I'm afraid I'm rambling now :-/
10:56:31 <clokep> I can re-read it for you once I'm at work if you'd like.
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11:47:26 <clokep_work> flo: How goes the blog post?
12:02:43 * clokep_work will post on his blog at some point after that blog post goes up...
12:12:13 <flo> clokep_work: I haven't finished, there's a paragraph I still want to edit
12:12:20 <flo> but it was lunch time here ;)
12:32:24 <clokep_work> Psh.
12:32:26 <clokep_work> Lunch...
12:32:36 <flo> well, trolling time ;)
12:33:10 <clokep_work> Hmm?? Who're we trolling?
12:33:44 <flo> random, but mostly microsoft ;)
12:34:01 <flo> (during lunch I meant)
12:35:53 <clokep_work> Ah, the easy target...
12:36:28 <flo> apple too, for good measure ;)
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12:44:26 * clokep_work hopes his comment in the merge BIO to BMO bug doesn't sound too whiney.
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12:47:59 <flo> clokep_work: I could have given you 2 additional bug numbers for that list ;)
12:48:09 <clokep_work> Booo. :(
12:48:17 <clokep_work> Oh the ones that were just for approval flags?
12:48:24 <flo> exactly
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12:50:29 <flo> I put http://ami6.fr/ online last night. Just so that I don't have to google to find a random link or picture the next time I talk to someone who don't know what an Ami 6 is ;).
12:52:04 <clokep_work> flo: Can't you just ask instantbot?
12:52:20 <clokep_work> instantbot: What is ami?
12:52:21 <instantbot> clokep_work: Was it not... er, someone, who said: ami is http://ami6.fr/
12:52:43 <flo> clokep_work: :-D
12:57:26 <clokep_work> instantbot: What is an ami?
12:57:27 <instantbot> clokep_work: The Citroën Ami is a supermini produced by the French automaker Citroën from 1961 to 1978. See a picture at http://ami6.fr/ (or more information at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_Ami).
12:57:33 <clokep_work> Even better. :)
12:58:17 <flo> the wikipedia link could be shortened
12:58:28 <flo> I intend to put a wikipedia link on the webpage
12:58:38 <flo> but I had other fishes to fry yesterday evening ;)
13:02:14 <clokep_work> Mmmm...fish...
13:03:05 <flo> so should we bump the max version of adium message themes on AIO ?
13:05:46 <clokep_work> Yes, I think so.
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13:24:46 <clokep_work> Should I change over the featured add-ons?
13:25:59 <flo> clokep_work: I bumped the converted adium theme's max version from 1.1.* to 1.3a1pre
13:26:05 <flo> (200 add-ons)
13:26:15 <flo> the SQL query was: UPDATE `addons_users` AS AU JOIN `versions` AS V ON (AU.`addon_id` = V.`addon_id`) JOIN `applications_versions` AS AV ON (V.`id` = AV.`version_id`) SET AV.`max` = 26 WHERE AU.`user_id` = 5
13:26:28 <flo> 5 is the id of the "adium" user
13:26:36 <flo> 26 is the number of "1.3a1pre" in the "appversions" table
13:26:54 <flo> (saying this to find it in the log, but I guess that should go in the release_progress wiki page :-S)
13:27:02 <clokep_work> Yes, it probably should. :)
13:28:41 <flo> I think "Upgrade the latest-trunk symblink on the download server to point to the new latest-<version> folder." is obsolete
13:28:44 <flo> I think it's automatic now
13:29:02 <flo> at least I haven't done it, so if the latest-trunk link points to 1.3a1pre builds, it's automatic!
13:30:46 <flo> SQL query added to the wiki
13:35:21 <clokep_work> Yup, seems to be correct. :)
13:36:49 <flo> arg, I now have "we look forward" in 2 consecutive sentences of the blog post :-/
13:39:25 <flo> is "bring Instantbird closer to Mozilla" correct?
13:40:00 <flo> (just saved the draft)
13:42:57 <clokep_work> I don't know.
13:43:49 <flo> reading the draft right now? :)
13:48:36 <flo> should we enable updates (when the user checks for update by hand; not automatic) and verify that they work before updating the website?
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13:49:39 <clokep_work> Probably...
13:52:26 <clokep_work> flo: "While Thunderbird with integrated email and IM may be better for users who work..." :-S
13:52:30 <clokep_work> Somethign is wrong in there...
13:52:55 <flo> wrong in which way? :)
13:53:13 <clokep_work> Wrong in that it doesn't make any sense
13:53:21 <clokep_work> "While Thundrebird with integrated email"...what?
13:53:51 <flo> assume "Thunderbird with integrated email and IM" is a single noun and reparse the sentence :)
13:55:34 <clokep_work> That needs commas in there then.
13:56:01 <clokep_work> "While Thunderbird, with integrated email and IM, may be better for users who work all day long with their email client and IM the same contacts; we believe lots of home users tend to use a webmail instead of a local email client and would prefer to keep their IM application separate." is what I changed it to.
13:56:20 <flo> ok
13:56:42 <clokep_work> I think it's good then.
13:57:23 <flo> so we are ready to start pushing buttons?
13:57:39 <flo> I'm trying to enable updates
13:57:58 <flo> that database is less of a mess than the AIO one, but still a mess
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13:59:52 <clokep_work> I think we're ready.
13:59:56 <clokep_work> I have to go help someone for a bit though.
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14:12:23 <flo> clokep_work, so did you like the parts I added about Thunderbird?
14:19:42 <flo> I don't see an easy way in the update code to block updates from win 2000 and xp pre sp2, so I won't make random attemps
14:19:45 <flo> *attempts
14:20:03 <flo> anyway, I don't think we will turn automatic updates on today, just updates for people who check for updates from the UI
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14:24:19 <barlas> Automatic updates are nice.
14:24:29 <flo> barlas: not on a release day
14:24:37 <barlas> True
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14:25:15 <barlas> Unless the software has been tested thoroughly.
14:25:15 <clokep_work> flo: Yes, I think it was fine.
14:25:16 <flo> barlas: if for some reason the update file is screwed up, we prefer that only people who actively checked for update after seeing the release announcement encounter the issue; they are more likely to report it ;)
14:25:38 <barlas> Heh
14:25:45 <flo> barlas: we are releasing 33 different builds at once, and 99 possible update scenarios. There's no way we could test that.
14:26:31 <barlas> Well, being a linux user, the package manager takes care of all updates, so I usually don't care about automatic updates
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14:26:42 <clokep_work> It doesn't for Instantbird. :p
14:27:01 <barlas> But when I am on windows, I love the application that can automatically update themselves, instead me checking homepage of all 45 applications and see if there is any update for them or not.
14:27:05 topic changed by flo to "Ask about Instantbird (http://instantbird.com) here!|Current version is Instantbird 1.2! :) |News: http://blog.instantbird.org/ |Nightlies: http://nightly.instantbird.im/ (for testing only) |IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/ |Pastebin: http://pastebin.instantbird.org/ | Bugs: http://bugzilla.instantbird.org"
14:27:36 <barlas> clokep_work: Arch has an AUR script for instanbird, I think
14:27:44 <clokep_work> Btw...I think if we were to ever release a point release we'd run out of room in the topic hah.
14:27:52 <clokep_work> barlas: Ah, OK. You like painful things. ;)
14:28:25 <flo> clokep_work: we would have to remove the ":)", which would be appropriate as a point release isn't an happy even ;)
14:28:26 <flo> *event
14:28:49 <barlas> Wow, there is instanbird.com, .org and .im
14:28:51 <flo> clokep_work: if you are happy with the blog post, you can post it whenever you want
14:28:56 <flo> barlas: and fr
14:28:58 <barlas> And topic links to all of them for different things
14:29:04 <flo> probably .net too
14:29:12 <barlas> And they all have different stuff?
14:29:18 <flo> barlas: of course!
14:29:18 <barlas> I know .org and .com are different
14:29:21 * barlas opens .im and .fr
14:29:22 <clokep_work> flo: I'm going to re-read it and post it then.
14:29:32 <flo> barlas: those 2 just redirect
14:29:49 <barlas> .im one isn't working for me
14:29:59 <barlas> Nevermind, a typo.
14:30:38 <barlas> That blog post would be on instantbird blog?
14:30:51 <flo> barlas: once clokep_work publishes it, yes
14:31:30 <barlas> So, flo, is that Ami 6 yours?
14:31:37 <flo> barlas: sure
14:32:44 <barlas> Looks great {though it seems part of the credit for that should go to photographer :) }
14:32:56 <flo> barlas: good thing I took the photo too ;)
14:33:25 <barlas> Ah, so it *actually* is your car
14:33:40 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1435 to FIXED.
14:33:42 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1435 nor, --, ---, clokep, RESO FIXED, Block updates from Instantbird 1.1 to 1.2 for Windows 2000 and Windows XP < SP2 users
14:34:02 <flo> I'm afraid I almost wontfix'ed it :-/
14:35:12 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com cancelled review? for attachment 1409 on bug 1405.
14:35:14 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1405 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Replace Wiki main page with Developer page
14:35:29 <instantbot> Just appeared in Blog@instantbird.org - http://blog.instantbird.org :
14:35:30 <instantbot> http://blog.instantbird.org/2012/08/instantbird-1-2-released/ - Instantbird 1.2 Released!
14:35:32 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1216 to FIXED.
14:35:35 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1216 tri, --, 1.2, clokep, RESO FIXED, Update copyright year for 2012
14:38:15 <clokep_work> Shuld bug 1435 be set to an Instantbird bug instead of a website bug?
14:38:18 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1435 nor, --, ---, clokep, RESO FIXED, Block updates from Instantbird 1.1 to 1.2 for Windows 2000 and Windows XP < SP2 users
14:38:26 <flo> no
14:38:31 <flo> ah
14:38:36 <flo> well, if you want to say it's fixed, yes
14:38:49 <flo> but then it should be "refuse to install" rather than "bloc updates" in the summary
14:39:59 <flo> any idea of where I need to go to make someone an admin on a mediawiki?
14:40:35 <flo> barlas: out of curiosity, did you know what an Ami 6 was before looking at that page? :)
14:40:40 <clokep_work> I think it's Special:User...
14:40:41 <barlas> flo: No
14:41:07 <clokep_work> flo: https://wiki.instantbird.org/Special:SpecialPages is the most useful page on MediaWiki. :)
14:41:21 <flo> clokep_work: https://wiki.instantbird.org/Special:UserRights/clokep
14:41:40 <flo> (and you are now in the "Administrators" group ;)
14:41:50 <clokep_work> :) Thanks!
14:41:58 <flo> barlas: ok, so that website was useful to at least one person already :)
14:43:08 <barlas> flo: Yeah, and now I am curious, what is so great about Ami that you registered a domain for it :)
14:43:39 <barlas> BTW Talking about wiki, everything on roadmap (upto the version number we are on) is completed?
14:43:54 <flo> instantbot: !roadmap
14:43:57 <instantbot> flo: Sorry, I've no idea what 'roadmap' might be.
14:43:58 <instantbot> flo: You can track the status of future releases at https://wiki.mozilla.org/Features/Release_Tracking.
14:44:02 <flo> instantbot: roadmap
14:44:04 <instantbot> flo: You can track the status of future releases at https://wiki.mozilla.org/Features/Release_Tracking.
14:44:11 <flo> pfff
14:44:22 <flo> https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Roadmap
14:44:23 <clokep_work> flo: I think instantbot forgets everything we teach him when the machine gets reset?
14:44:27 <flo> instantbot: roadmap is https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Roadmap
14:44:27 <barlas> :)
14:44:28 <instantbot> flo: But Roadmap is '<reply>You can track the status of future releases at https://wiki.mozilla.org/Features/Release_Tracking.'...
14:44:38 <barlas> lol
14:44:39 <flo> instantbot: no, roadmpa is https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Roadmap
14:44:40 <instantbot> flo: ok
14:44:46 <flo> aaarg!
14:44:50 <flo> instantbot: forget roadmpa
14:44:51 <instantbot> flo: I've forgotten what I knew about 'roadmpa'.
14:44:58 <flo> instantbot: no, roadmap is https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Roadmap
14:44:59 <instantbot> flo: ok
14:45:12 <flo> clokep_work: yeah, I'm afraid it does :(
14:45:14 <barlas> Why does it weel like instantbot is making fun of you? :P
14:45:26 <clokep_work> Bah just midaired myself...
14:45:26 <barlas> *feel
14:45:36 <flo> barlas: well, 1.2 listed "     Better IRC and XMPP, with extensible implementations. "
14:45:40 <flo> we did it! :)
14:45:55 <barlas> Heh :)
14:45:59 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1405 to FIXED.
14:46:01 <barlas> What's improved in XMPP?
14:46:04 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1405 nor, --, ---, clokep, RESO FIXED, Replace Wiki main page with Developer page
14:46:34 <flo> barlas: the tooltips when there are multiple connected resources for the same contact.
14:46:51 <barlas> Oh, and you fixed the aliases issue.
14:47:17 * flo wonders if barlas has read the blog post
14:47:36 <clokep_work> flo: So what is left on https://etherpad.mozilla.org/ib-1-2-todo ?
14:47:47 <clokep_work> Was the crash-stats website updated?
14:48:01 <flo> clokep_work: things that are already done have been removed
14:48:05 <clokep_work> Alright.
14:49:25 <flo> emailing localizers again maybe?
14:49:42 <barlas> huh, no more libpurple
14:49:58 <flo> barlas: reading seems hard today! :-P
14:51:23 <barlas> flo: I haven't finished the article, I stopped at "That’s right, Instantbird 1.2 is no longer based on libpurple"
14:51:28 <barlas> :P
14:51:36 <flo> so you stopped right in the middle of a sentence
14:52:56 <barlas> well, I completed the sentence, but didn't know which protocols
14:53:06 <barlas> That is until I read the next paragraph.
14:53:38 <barlas> So, whole XMPP and  IRC implementation is in JS?
14:55:26 <barlas> I never considered JS reliable enough for such heavy tasks.
14:55:44 <flo> barlas: it's C that is unreliable ;)
14:55:51 <barlas> but then again, I haven't worked any major work in JS.
14:55:58 <barlas> Well, debugging JS is quite a pain.
14:56:20 <barlas> With C, you atleast have a compiler that will tell you that you are missing a ; on line 21
14:56:23 <flo> debugging C partying at random memory addresses is painful too :-P
14:56:32 <barlas> <-- haven't used much C either
14:56:49 <flo> barlas: my editor will underline the whole line in orange if I miss a ; at the end of the line in a JS file.
14:56:50 <barlas> I only worked in C for school homework.
14:57:08 <barlas> flo: heh, then you have a good editor :)
14:57:26 <barlas> But seriously, why did you choose JS?
14:58:00 <barlas> It's obvious you thought it is good enough, or you wouldn't have spend so much time writing everything in it, but I would like to know why :)
14:58:31 <barlas> My main experience with JS is doing some minor work on website, or Ajax, using jQuery.
14:58:48 <dew> I suck with js how am I going to help you now flo? ;)
15:00:21 <flo> dew: you'll just learn to write better JS ;)
15:00:47 <dew> I barely do js for work
15:01:06 <dew> although I want to learn ince I want to make games in html5
15:01:48 <dew> I think that's cool that you implemented that in js though
15:02:02 <dew> how "Mozilla" of you :P
15:02:26 <dew> reminds me of their pdf.js and their flash js interpreter
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15:05:03 * clokep_work dislikes jQuery a lot.
15:05:08 <clokep_work> Please don't call it JS. :P
15:05:17 <clokep_work> dew: They have a Flash interpreter...?
15:05:20 <flo> clokep_work: it's just a way to make JS painful ;)
15:06:50 <dew> https://github.com/mozilla/shumway
15:08:42 <clokep_work> Hm...when was that announced I wonder...
15:08:56 <clokep_work> I wonder if it's usable...
15:09:10 <flo> if it was usable, it would be shipped by default ;)
15:09:12 <clokep_work> Anyway, barlas the reason we chose it is because a lot of stuff in Mozilla is in JavaScript so it was the ovbious language.
15:09:20 <clokep_work> flo: "usable enough for me" :)
15:09:41 <clokep_work> barlas: Plus it's a really nice language to work with and has nice string functions, etc.
15:09:56 <barlas> clokep_work: Vanilla JS?
15:10:04 <barlas> Without any framework, right?
15:10:20 <clokep_work> barlas: Well...it uses Mozilla XPCOM stuff.
15:10:26 <clokep_work> But that's not really a "framework" in the way oyu mean it, I think.
15:12:14 <dew> now we need instantbird on ninite!
15:12:57 <barlas> Ok
15:13:28 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1070 to FIXED.
15:13:30 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1070 nor, --, ---, clokep, RESO FIXED, Ensure recommended add-ons are actually suitable for the latest version
15:13:46 <barlas> Hmm.. there is no comment on IB blog post, I can be 'First!' :P
15:13:46 <clokep_work> barlas: So it uses internal Mozilla stuff (like sockets and things like that), but it's not using node.js or anything like that.
15:13:58 <dew> \o/
15:13:59 <barlas> clokep_work: Okay, got it.
15:14:51 <clokep_work> Bah the first comment is " I heard that Mozilla will stop develop thunderbird... anything changed?"
15:15:01 <clokep_work> Anyone have a link to jb's blog post handy?
15:15:30 <flo> clokep_work: http://blog.mozilla.org/beyond-the-code/2012/07/09/about-the-future-of-thunderbird/ ?
15:15:34 <flo> It's Tristan's blog
15:15:35 <barlas> What? Someone already posted a comment? Noooo!
15:15:38 <flo> but it's jb's interview
15:15:41 --> wnayes has joined #instantbird
15:15:51 <flo> barlas: post a patch instead ;)
15:16:22 <-- FeuerFliege has quit (Ping timeout)
15:18:46 <clokep_work> barlas: You can see the IRC code at http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/protocols/irc/irc.js and http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/protocols/irc/ircBase.jsm btw. I think it's fairly readable.
15:21:44 <-- gerard-majax has quit (Ping timeout)
15:21:53 <barlas> Wow, I haven't seen that much commented code in umm... umm... really long time.
15:23:05 <barlas> Nice, should be very easy to get in this code.
15:23:26 <clokep_work> I'm forgetful, I like comments. :)
15:27:29 <barlas> clokep_work: Me too, unfortunately many people don't comment their code.
15:36:40 <dew> :)
15:38:44 <clokep_work> barlas: Tell me about it. ;) The code at work is awful.
15:42:23 * flo is inviting here someone who's upset on twitter that we dared not listing generic xmpp as a top protocol
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15:42:50 <dew> what?
15:43:36 <_kud> who's behind @instantbird (twitter) so? :)
15:43:39 <flo> _kud: hello :)
15:43:42 <_kud> Hey ;)
15:43:51 <_kud> Bon, désolé pour cette dite agression, c'etait pas le but
15:44:06 <flo> _kud: I replied to you on twitter, but I should have used my @fqueze account, I usually don't reply in French with the official @instantbird account :)
15:44:13 <_kud> (yeah soz, in english so)
15:44:22 <_kud> alright
15:44:39 <flo> if I understood correctly, you were frustrated by the new "top protocols" first step of the account wizard
15:44:50 <_kud> Yeah so I wasn't saying that your work was crap, even more, i've tried your app and it's really cool
15:45:09 <_kud> it's just that for me, open source clients should make at the top xmpp protocol
15:45:42 <_kud> coz even if facebook and gtalk are xmpp too behind, it's close, and they backup all conversations on their servers
15:46:06 <flo> _kud: we tend to like *technically* XMPP compared to other protocols, but we also strongly believe that from a user point of view, the protocol used to transmit message is an irrelevant technical detail.
15:46:15 <_kud> Pidgin is doing the same way about their wizard
15:46:24 <_kud> Yes :)
15:46:45 <clokep_work> Pidgin has a wizard like that?
15:46:49 <flo> and we changed the wizard to only include names that people are likely to know, with bigger icons
15:47:06 <flo> clokep_work: no, we would have heard about it ;).
15:47:06 * clokep_work is confused by you calling our work crap and then saying the application is really good. :-S
15:47:22 <_kud> Nah, never said that
15:47:23 <_kud> :)
15:47:42 <_kud> it's just a discussion we had on twitter with flo
15:48:00 <flo> _kud: by the way, if you have read the release announcement, you may have noticed that we just spent a lot of time working on XMPP code in JS ;)
15:48:15 <_kud> Ahah, nice, interesting!
15:48:36 <flo> the new code is quite clean, and easy to hack with, so if you want to make XMPP really awesome in Instantbird, you are welcome to offer patches :)
15:48:45 <flo> (and we would of course help a lot in the process :))
15:49:31 <_kud> Well, anyway. I'd just like that people know more about what they really use, and that using facebook or gtalk protocols isn't "safe" about privacy
15:49:45 <flo> _kud: sure, we agree on that.
15:50:01 <barlas> _kud: So your only complain is that XMPP is not mentioned in top protocols?
15:50:11 <flo> but we target users with very limited computer knowledge. People who may not see the difference between a browser, a search engine and an ISP ;).
15:50:31 <_kud> In a certain way, yes barlas, :) it's no point in fact
15:51:26 <barlas> flo: Still, just adding one more icon saying 'XMPP' shouldn't confuse anyone
15:51:29 <flo> _kud: anyway, even if you don't have time to contribute code, feel free to stay around here if you want, and just see how we discuss things, and work :)
15:51:38 <clokep_work> I really don't like when software pushes it's own agenda on me...so I think adding XMPP there is not wanted.
15:52:09 <flo> barlas: I would take suggestions for removing more icons actually. And I was frustrated that the French translators didn't remove the Yahoo entry for French, because Yahoo is completely irrelevant in France ;).
15:52:11 <clokep_work> (As in, yes...it can be safer, etc. depending on the server you use...but are people likely to click on it? I don't think so.)
15:52:41 <_kud> aha true flo
15:53:33 <_kud> It's not that they don't click or have no xmpp account that shouldn't or wouldn't see that xmpp exists itself
15:53:44 <flo> _kud: that list of top protocols is localized, and what's in the list is up to localizers (I assumed you used the French version)
15:53:55 <_kud> nope, english, always ;)
15:55:43 <clokep_work> Well we can blame wnayes then, right? :-D
15:56:29 <flo> clokep_work: well, we could blame wnayes if the code was faulty, but I think _kud's comment was more about the UI design; and it's mine ;).
15:56:39 <dew> facebook and google log your IMs?
15:56:41 <_kud> :D
15:56:45 <_kud> oh by the way
15:56:59 <_kud> I typed my gtalk account without @gmail.com
15:57:01 <_kud> and it didn't work
15:57:25 <_kud> most of im clients add themselves @gmail.com if not typed
15:57:28 <flo> _kud: yeah, we need to add support for a custom Gtalk XMPP extension to fix that!
15:57:41 <flo> it's something we want to do!
15:57:59 <flo> but do you mean you are really letting Google read all your IMs? ;)
15:58:12 <dew> :(
15:58:17 <_kud> I had a xmpp server
15:58:28 <_kud> well I used an xmpp server, but often down
15:58:52 <_kud> and for the moment, as i've got gmail, i "don't mind" having gtalk
15:59:02 <_kud> but it's the next step, having my own mail server
15:59:52 <dew> and then an extension to get me a girlfriend
15:59:57 <barlas> dew: You can view all your GTalk chats in 'Chats' in your gmail account
16:00:33 <barlas> _kud: I switched to my own mail server, then my hosting expired :(
16:00:43 <_kud> :D
16:01:19 <_kud> it's not so easily to maintain your own server
16:01:32 <flo> _kud: and some day you'll get a real project consuming most of your time, and give up the idea of setting up your own server for each service ;).
16:01:41 <_kud> exactly
16:01:50 <flo> I used to have my own server with lots of things. That was before I started working on Instantbird ;).
16:01:51 <barlas> Yep, so, I gave it up.
16:02:11 <barlas> Just my own ownCloud and Friendika/statusnet instance now :)
16:02:45 <-- myk has quit (Ping timeout)
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16:08:17 <barlas> When Master Password is set, passwords are stored encrypted?
16:08:23 --> Optimizer has joined #instantbird
16:09:00 <flo> barlas: yes
16:10:37 <barlas> Nice
16:12:06 <_kud> fortunately :)
16:21:07 <flo> http://queze.net/goinfre/instantbird-1.2.download-count.txt
16:22:51 <dew> one of those was me~
16:23:10 <dew> is instantbird on portable apps?
16:23:13 * dew checks
16:23:27 <flo> ah, that reminds me it's probably time for me to stop using 1.2, and go to 1.3a1pre nightlies
16:23:32 <flo> bah... tomorrow :)
16:23:34 <flo> dew: yes
16:24:14 <dew> good
16:24:30 <dew> Probably going to replace my pidgin portable with instantbird
16:24:46 * flo wonders if clokep_work feels about http://pastebin.instantbird.com/60057
16:24:59 <flo> it's for https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=777873
16:26:38 <flo> oh wait, now that you are a peer of mail/components/im, I don't need anybody else to look at it before the check-in :)
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16:40:47 <wnayes> flo: Do you have some time before your vacation to go over the importing UI?
16:41:07 <flo> wnayes: this evening and tomorrow (probably evening too).
16:41:34 <flo> (my definition of "this evening" would be 3-4 hours from now)
16:41:57 <wnayes> OK, I want to make sure I'm heading in the right direction :)
16:42:08 <flo> so do I!
16:42:56 <flo> bah,  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=778664 :(
16:43:07 <flo> OS X 10.6 is the min version for Tb too now :(
16:43:17 <flo> another patch to back-out to continue working
16:46:49 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
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16:58:01 <clokep_work> flo: That looks OK.
17:00:46 --> dewmugg has joined #instantbird
17:00:51 <clokep_work> 79 downloads? Nice. :)
17:00:52 <dewmugg> woo
17:01:06 <dewmugg> you have to enter a # to get to the right room ;)
17:03:22 <dew> I actually like this client
17:03:47 <clokep_work> Are dew and dewmugg the same person/
17:03:53 <dew> yes
17:03:55 <clokep_work> I'm not sure what that comment means dewmugg.
17:04:06 <dew> when I joined the channel
17:04:16 <dew> initially I dind't put a # in front of it
17:04:20 <clokep_work> Yes, you have to prefix it with #.
17:04:31 <clokep_work> There's a bug open about that.
17:04:35 <dew> I think mIRC does that for you if you're lazy like me
17:04:39 <clokep_work> But personally I disagree with suppporting allowing you not to do it.
17:04:46 <clokep_work> There's other prefixes that can be used though.
17:04:58 <dew> not a big deal at all
17:05:09 <dew> I'm used to being forced to do it in other clients
17:05:22 <dew> but I like the look
17:05:34 <dew> something about instantbird I just like it better than pidgin
17:06:22 <-- dewmugg has quit (Client exited)
17:06:22 <clokep_work> Because it's prettier? :-D
17:06:30 <dew> probably
17:06:49 <clokep_work> But yeah, we tried to make IRC / MUCs very usable in it.
17:06:57 <clokep_work> Kind of trying to break the assumption that an IM client can't do IRC.
17:07:15 <dew> it is usable I just am used to mIRC
17:07:29 <dew> soit's hard to combine them
17:09:03 <clokep_work> Right well...I guess if there are specific issues you're having, please file bugs?
17:09:29 <dew> It's just personal issues ;)
17:10:08 <clokep_work> OK...
17:10:38 <dew> maybe I could file a bug on having a tree view layout
17:10:39 --> sonny has joined #instantbird
17:12:36 <clokep_work> Sure...I think Mook had started implementing that (a ChatZilla type UI).
17:12:50 <Mook> nah, I just switched to tbird instead
17:13:05 <Mook> (and that's not the native chatzilla type UI, it looks more like xchat)
17:13:29 <-- _kud has quit (Client exited)
17:21:13 <clokep_work> Am I allowed to get excited for 1.3 now? :P
17:27:23 <douglaswth> hmm, check for update isn't telling me that 1.2 is available
17:28:12 <clokep_work> Oh? Hmm...It's not totally clear to me whether flo turned that on or not...
17:32:21 <-- meh has quit (Ping timeout)
17:33:45 <douglaswth> :( 1.2 doesn't have the newer firefox/thunderbird About that does the update check
17:34:26 <clokep_work> No. No one ever ported it over.
17:34:30 <clokep_work> Are you interested? :)
17:34:43 <-- mmkmou has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.3a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
17:35:26 <douglaswth> ooh, a red marker line!
17:35:38 <douglaswth> I barely have time to keep up with my own projects these days
17:35:42 <clokep_work> You can thank aleth for that. :)
17:39:00 <clokep_work> flo: I did post on my blog too btw, it's a little bit lame, but I'm short on time.
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18:05:29 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 
18:05:41 <flo> clokep_work: your blog post is great, thanks!
18:06:07 <flo> clokep_work: I thought we agreed that typing # shouldn't be required?
18:06:27 <clokep_work> flo: I think I got tired of arguing. ;)
18:06:38 <flo> clokep_work: ie that we should add it automatically if the string entered by the user didn't start with any of the valid prefixes
18:06:49 <clokep_work> Yes, I think that that's what we agreed on.
18:06:59 <flo> if both mIRC and ChatZilla do it, I'm afraid we are just confusing users by not doing it
18:07:01 <clokep_work> (And would conveniently be a great first bug...)
18:07:18 <flo> right, it would be a great first bug for anybody frustrated by the current behavior! :)
18:08:04 <clokep_work> And I'm glad you enjoyed the blog post, my first on PMO, I guess.
18:11:13 <-- gerard-majax has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
18:11:54 * clokep_work wants to finish https://etherpad.mozilla.org/ib-1-2-todo so he can start on https://etherpad.mozilla.org/ib-1-3 :P
18:12:29 <flo> clokep_work: you can already remove the last line of that pad :)
18:12:46 <douglaswth> blarg! the new IRC no longer has the check box to auto recognize utf8
18:13:02 <flo> douglaswth: why did you need it?
18:13:28 <flo> douglaswth: the new IRC code just works w.r.t encodings for me
18:14:07 <douglaswth> because ISO-8859-1 is the closest thing to an official encoding for IRC but people send UTF8 as well
18:14:11 <-- ea4eoz has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1)
18:14:12 <flo> douglaswth: it even supports a room with mixed UTF8 and iso-<whatever number> (western)
18:14:45 <douglaswth> hmm, maybe if I set my encoding to UTF-8?
18:14:52 <flo> douglaswth: that's the default value, isn't it?
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18:15:23 <douglaswth> yeah, but I always changed it to ISO-8859-1 and checked the box
18:15:24 <clokep_work> "ISO-8859-1 is the closest thing to an official encoding for IRC" is probably debatable. ;)
18:15:38 <douglaswth> clokep_work: oh, I know
18:16:06 <flo> clokep_work: ahah, I was surprised you hadn't argued against that assertion yet :)
18:16:53 <clokep_work> I've never had issues with any encodings personally, but ASCII would probably work well enough for me 99% of the time.
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18:17:34 <flo> clokep_work: yeah, most encoding bugs are caused by americans :-P
18:17:57 <clokep_work> Hence why I asked you to write/verify that code for IRC. :)
18:17:58 <flo> who don't notice the difference between ascii, utf8, or whatever other encoding is used :(
18:18:37 --> ea4eoz has joined #instantbird
18:19:19 <ea4eoz> Testing 1.2 now. The installer takes an eternity to load (around 5 minutes) ... and ends with a unsigned installer warning. It seems the OS has problems to read/find the certificate.
18:19:41 <clokep_work> flo: Should people see updates if they check for updates manually? douglaswth reported not having one.
18:19:50 <clokep_work> ea4eoz: I don't think we've ever signed any of our installers...
18:20:12 * douglaswth is an american who cares about unicode and encodings :/
18:20:23 <ea4eoz> It takes an eternity to run, al least on W7
18:21:27 <clokep_work> I didn't have any issues on Windows 8 when I installed it the other day. :shrugs:
18:22:06 <ea4eoz> Well, anyway it's running!
18:22:15 <clokep_work> :) Good.
18:22:26 <clokep_work> It should be the same as recent nightlies though...
18:22:50 <clokep_work> flo: Are there other things I can do on that list right now or not really?
18:23:36 <clokep_work> (I know Colorize/Highlight for bug 1503)
18:23:42 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1503 enh, --, ---, florian, NEW, Update add-ons on AIO for Instantbird 1.2
18:26:04 <ea4eoz> I noticed 1.1 and 1.2 does not load MSN avatars... bug or feature? :D
18:26:10 <flo> clokep_work: yes, they should see updates if they check for updates manually.
18:26:34 <flo> ea4eoz: our builds aren't signed
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18:26:43 <clokep_work> ea4eoz: libpurple bug.
18:27:06 <flo> clokep_work: maybe post on freshmeat? I'm not sure if my account is required for that or not
18:27:10 <ea4eoz> Pidgin does
18:27:23 <flo> but I think we need a 600 characters release announcement, or something like that
18:27:35 <flo> ea4eoz: sign the installer?
18:27:37 <clokep_work> :(
18:29:45 <ea4eoz> No, I only noticed the instaler takes an eternity (about 4-5 minutes) to load, just to ends with a non signed installer (W7, you know...). Other non signed installers does not take such long time, but at the ends, it works fine
18:30:48 <ea4eoz> And no, Pidgin displays MSN avatars, but I remember I was using something like MSN-pecan or something like that... maybe that is the reason
18:32:18 <flo> ea4eoz: msn-pecan is a completely different MSN implementation
18:32:38 <flo> well, not completely different, they do share some code with the pidgin plugin, but it's a fork that's derived quite a bit
18:32:43 <ea4eoz> Yes, maybe that is the reason, anyway not a big deal, it is just an image.
18:33:52 <flo> clokep_work: so apparently I'm the "Owner" of the "Instantbird" project on freshmeat.net, but it's "writeable by everyone"
18:34:13 <flo> "every registered user can help to keep your project record up-to-date"
18:34:45 <flo> clokep_work: the page to submit a new release, once you are logged in, is https://freecode.com/projects/instantbird/releases/new
18:35:11 <clokep_work> I don't have an account there...bleh.
18:35:41 <flo> it may be the same accounts as sourceforge, now that they've been acquired by sourceforge
18:37:54 <clokep_work> It apparently uses openID>...but I don't remember how ot use my gmail account for that.
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18:38:32 <Mook> hm, just out of curiosity: are you guys signing the OSX binaries? (for 10.8 stuff, using codesign)
18:38:42 <flo> clokep_work: btw, just wondering: what are you the most excited to start to work on for 1.3? :)
18:38:48 <flo> Mook: no
18:38:56 <Mook> (I don't have a mac, but did some of the work for Komodo on supporting it)
18:39:13 <flo> Mook: we build from a PPC machine that, iirc, can't do that
18:39:35 <Mook> hah, right. you need at least... 10.6, I think? not sure.
18:39:56 <flo> that will have to change very soon, as keeping the PPC support alive for mozilla is currently super painful, and starting with moz17 it will be close to impossible
18:40:19 <flo> Mook: ah? Interesting. Then I can't do it on my macbook either (10.5; for which support was dropped today for Tb17 :-/)
18:40:42 <Mook> not sure; I did my work on a 10.6 machine, dunno if 10.5 would work
18:40:59 <clokep_work> Yeah, you need 10.6 IIRC.
18:41:05 <Mook> (because the 10.6 machine was the one I had access to, not for any other particular reason)
18:43:19 <Mook> fwiw, if you guys around around to trying to do that: the komodo code is at http://svn.openkomodo.com/openkomodo/browse/openkomodo/trunk/src/install/osx-codesign - feel free to poke me for that stuff, too.
18:43:30 <Mook> (and I'm sure #build would help too, of course, for Firefox-looking things)
18:43:45 <clokep_work> flo: I don't know in particular. Just some more of the IRC improvements.
18:43:51 <clokep_work> I'd also love to fix the mess we have around normalized names.
18:44:58 <flo> Mook: thanks!
18:45:06 * wnayes thinks it would be fun to work on the "new conversation tab" bug once the importing code is in good order.
18:45:11 <flo> Mook: I think the first step is really to get a newer build machine
18:45:20 <flo> wnayes: cool :)
18:45:30 <ea4eoz> Any way to remove the old messages vanished color?
18:45:35 <fenfir> I've got a question about how the "purple.ssl.check_certificates" preference works. I found it in purple-prefs.js, but can't find any other references to it. 
18:45:51 <clokep_work> ea4eoz: Use a different message style, I think.
18:46:01 <clokep_work> fenfir: What's your question about it?
18:46:02 <flo> fenfir: why do you need it? :)
18:46:13 <clokep_work> wnayes: You'd get major kudos for that.
18:46:45 <fenfir> flo: i'm trying to figure out how it works so I can attempt to figure out how to make Thunderbird do the same thing
18:47:06 <wnayes> I've reached for Ctrl-T a few times myself in IB, seems natural with a tab interface.
18:47:32 <ea4eoz> Message style does not remove it... damn!
18:47:44 <flo> fenfir: Thunderbird won't use that pref at all, it's only for libpurple plugins
18:48:00 <clokep_work> ea4eoz: We have it implemented in all the default message styles IIRC.
18:48:19 <ea4eoz> clokep_work: Looks horrible and difficult to read...
18:48:33 <clokep_work> ea4eoz: Again I disagree.
18:48:34 <fenfir> flo: thanks, that makes sense. I was thinking TB was using libpurple
18:48:43 <clokep_work> ea4eoz: How does it "look horrible"?
18:48:52 <clokep_work> And it looks fine on my screen.
18:48:59 <clokep_work> (Although I'm using simple at owrk...)
18:49:05 <Mook> yeah; for some reason, for _every_ project, I'm running into the "not enough build slaves" problem XD
18:49:07 <ea4eoz> the vanished color in old messages (the ones above the dashed red line)
18:49:52 <ea4eoz> vanished or dimm color, I don't know what is the correct word
18:49:53 <flo> ea4eoz: what's wrong about it? It's to show you that you have already read these messages and don't want to waste time reading them again ;)
18:50:04 <flo> ea4eoz: the correct word is "desaturated" I think
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18:50:44 <ea4eoz> Well, so "desaturated" colors are too desaturated, and difficult to read :D
18:51:26 <clokep_work> This is on Bubbles, I assume?
18:51:35 * clokep_work thinks a screenshot would help...
18:52:05 * flo things people arguing about colors are boring
18:52:12 <ea4eoz> I don't now because theme names are translated...
18:52:46 <flo> oh btw, it's a loong long time since the last time I heard someone complaining that Bubbles' default colors are Pink and Blue, meaning girl and boy, and hence completely unusable for someone who isn't a teenager any more :)
18:53:21 <ea4eoz> Low contrast letters are difficult to read, it's something like the fuzzy Segoui font from MS, wich causes me several headache...
18:53:42 <clokep_work> Could you file a bug and post a screenshot?
18:53:50 <clokep_work> It could just be you're using a different font than anything we've tried.
18:54:00 <flo> (I meant "arguments about colors" or "watching people arguing about colors", not "people argument about colors". Didn't want to offend any one)
18:54:18 <ea4eoz> It is not really a bug, just a missing option :D
18:54:18 <flo> ea4eoz: the question is: why do you need to read these messages?
18:54:38 <ea4eoz> flo: Why you keep the messages? You already read them :D
18:55:55 <clokep_work> ea4eoz: If that's your thought, then isn't the bug the missing option? File a bug.
18:56:23 <flo> I will wontfix it if there's not a clear explanation of why it's needed though ;)
18:59:57 <flo> do we have a bug on file for trying to display as many active participants as possible in the visible area of the participant list?
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19:04:47 <ea4eoz> Are themes defined in files? Or they are binary?
19:05:07 <flo> I wonder how binaries could not be in files :-P
19:05:18 <ea4eoz> ;D
19:05:30 <flo> ea4eoz: there are literally hundread of Message themes in the add-on website
19:05:34 <ea4eoz> I mean if themes are XML files or something like that
19:06:26 <flo> ea4eoz: are you interested in creating a new theme?
19:07:00 <ea4eoz> No, I want to see if the "desaturation" is defined somewhere in the theme file :D
19:07:49 <vicnet> Hey, I just noticed that while the release notes say that "Alt-PgUp/PgDn" allow you to quickly jump to the first unread message in a conversation, that doesn't work. It's simply PgUp/PgDn, no Alt needed. I'll correct for the French locale, but this should be corrected everywhere so we don't confuse users :)
19:08:25 <flo> ea4eoz: so why aren't you asking for that *first*, instead of asking strange questions that we can't answer?
19:08:49 --> aleth has joined #instantbird
19:08:49 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 
19:09:12 <ea4eoz> Because I don't know the inners of the program yet
19:09:24 * aleth reads the topic :)
19:09:36 <flo> ea4eoz: that's an even better reason for asking what you really want :)
19:09:48 <vicnet> aleth: the release notes say to use "Alt-PgUp/PgDn" allow you to quickly jump to the first unread message in a conversation, that doesn't work. It's simply PgUp/PgDn, no Alt needed"
19:10:09 <flo> ea4eoz: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/themes/messages/bubbles/main.css#42
19:10:41 <aleth> vicnet: PgUp/PgDn is just the usual pagewise scrolling, unless there is a bug :-/
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19:11:32 <vicnet> aleth: here when I use PgUp/PgDn it brings me to the first unread message. Alt PgUp/PgDn just jumps to the very top/bottom of the page
19:11:59 <aleth> vicnet: Hmm, which OS are you on?
19:12:08 <vicnet> Linux (Ubuntu)
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19:13:00 <ea4eoz> Thank you flo, but I don't find the themes directory (yet)
19:13:28 <aleth> I'm on Linux too, and it works for me. Alt PgUp/PgDn will only jump to the first unread message if the horizontal line showing where it is is still there
19:13:56 <aleth> It also jumps to the first non-context message if you have restored the conversation from hold.
19:14:11 <aleth> Otherwise it will go to the top/bottom of the page like you say.
19:14:40 <aleth> Btw, you can also use Home/End for the same purpose.
19:14:51 <aleth> (The same as Alt-PgUp/PgDn)
19:15:04 <vicnet> aleth: it jumps to the very top/bottom an in the process removes the horizontal bar… Is PgUp/PgDn without alt supposed to simply jump upp and down? Or should it also jump to the horizontal bar?
19:15:11 <ea4eoz> Well, no themes in hard disk... ¿?
19:15:29 <aleth> vicnet: PgUp/PgDn is just the usual "scroll one page up"
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19:16:17 <aleth> Oh, if the horizontal bar and some messages following it are already visible on-screen, then of course it assumes you don't want to scroll there.
19:16:17 <vicnet> aleth: let me join a busy channel (any suggestions?) and test that again, it may have been my error or confusion
19:16:38 <aleth> #ubuntu is really busy ;)
19:16:58 <vicnet> aleth: I'm pretty sure I made sure the horizontal bar was off-screen, but I'll test again.
19:17:03 <-- mikk_s has left #instantbird ()
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19:19:34 <ea4eoz> Well, direct question: Where is the message themes directory?
19:20:47 <flo> ea4eoz: editing the file of the application directly isn't a good idea; it will break at each update
19:20:56 <flo> there are lots of message themes at https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/browse/type:1/cat:6
19:21:42 <ea4eoz> I know but there is no themes installed: No main.css, no bubles, no papersheet... where are those files installed?
19:21:47 <vicnet> I just created a new IRC account to get on #ubuntu and there was no option in the wizard to enter channels to join by default. That would be nice…
19:22:28 <flo> ea4eoz: burried deep inside the omni.ja compressed file
19:22:42 <vicnet> is there even a simple way to join a channel on a specific IRC network when no channels are currently open for that network?
19:22:51 <ea4eoz> that would explain a lot...
19:23:00 <aleth> vicnet: "Join Chat" from the menu?
19:23:09 <Mook> vicnet: there should be a File -> Join Chat
19:23:42 <vicnet> lol of course… thx and nevermind
19:24:28 <Mook> thanks for asking a question I actually know the answer to ;)
19:24:34 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1622 filed by eric.kow@gmail.com.
19:24:37 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1622 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, use active user information to filter (large) list of users in channel?
19:24:59 <vicnet> Mook: no problem :)
19:32:10 <aleth> Yay clokep_work wrote a nice post for planet moz :)
19:32:32 <vicnet> aleth: I just tested it again: PgUp/PgDn by itself doesn't do it, it was a coincidence. But Alt PgUp/PgDn doesn't work for me, although Home/End worked as intended
19:33:11 <aleth> vicnet: Hmm, that's not good. I'm not on ubuntu, I wonder if Alt-PgUp/Dn is somehow already taken globally there?
19:33:42 <aleth> Just to be sure, could you put your (well-filled) #ubuntu tab on hold, then reopen it when it has a bunch of new messages in it, and then test again?
19:34:11 <vicnet> aleth: well, it didn't do anything else than the normal intended effect of Home/End, which is to scroll all the way to the top/bottom… I'm not sure if it's bound to something globally
19:34:24 <aleth> (because those keys should also scroll to the first non-context message, and that's not something that disappears like the unread marker)
19:35:47 <vicnet> aleth: that's what I've been doing (wait until a bunch of messages arrive and test again). I'll try with the hold
19:36:10 <aleth> It's just that as far as I recall the IB code makes no distinction between Home/End and AltPgUp/Dn, so I'm a bit confused.
19:37:27 <vicnet> aleth: And it doesn't seem to be some weird keyboard layout issue; I tried switching to en-US (I normally use fr layout) and it behaved exactly the same…
19:37:54 <aleth> Right...
19:38:12 <vicnet> aleth: out of curiosity, under what conditions does the horizontal bar disappear? Because when the Alt+PgUp makes me go all the way up it seems to be gone. I'm assuming it disappears once you scroll past it?
19:38:59 <aleth> vicnet: No, scrolling past it should leave it in place (you can check with the scrollbar). Loosely speaking, it disappears when you switch tabs or give some other window focus.
19:40:30 <vicnet> aleth: ah, interesting… maybe it has something to do with the new Unity menu that comes up when you press Alt. I don't see it come up, but maybe it catches the Alt and briefly takes focus and messes things up… because I don't switch tabs or do anything to make the bar disappear and it's gone as soon as I try to Alt+PgUp/PgDn
19:40:51 <aleth> Hmm, that sounds like it might be an explanation!
19:41:09 <vicnet> aleth: the Unity menu should only come up when you press (and release) alt by itself, but I don't know how it works under the hood…
19:42:01 <aleth> I don't think IB got a lot of testing on unity... I am on KDE for example.
19:42:20 <vicnet> aleth: interesting results when I put the conversation on hold: it works as intended but the bar does disappear
19:42:36 <vicnet> so, it brings me to where the messages are no longer greyed out, but the line's gone…
19:42:50 <vicnet> if the convo was not put on hold, it simply goes to the top or bottom…
19:43:06 <aleth> Interesting. Of course the distinction between greyed out messages (context) and new ones does not go away like the horizontal bar
19:43:21 <aleth> So a focus issue does sound like a likely explanation
19:43:25 <vicnet> by greyed out I meant the desaturated messages from the convo being put on hold
19:43:36 <aleth> Yes, we call those "context messages"
19:43:43 <vicnet> oh :) OK
19:44:18 <ea4eoz> going out for an hour... more later!
19:44:22 <-- ea4eoz has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
19:44:31 <aleth> vicnet: So Alt-PgUp/Dn does scroll correctly there... so it's not that the key is ignored :)
19:45:33 * aleth wonders if it would have been better to put Home/End rather than Alt-PgUp/Dn in the release notes :-S
19:45:42 <vicnet> aleth: yeah, it works correctly when the conversation was on hold. Plus, it does what it's supposed to otherwise, which is act as if home or end are pressed. It's just that the bar is lost :(
19:45:49 <aleth> The issue with Home/End is that of course they don't work if you are halfway through typing a message...
19:46:26 <aleth> vicnet: Sounds like a bug on unity then. Could you file a bug for it please?
19:46:30 <vicnet> well, I almost put PgUp/PgDn on the French locale because I thought that's what was working :) so I'm glad I asked you first… I can put Home/End on the French locale…
19:47:21 <vicnet> aleth: sure, I'll do that. My first time filing a bug; I'll do my best :D
19:47:50 <aleth> You could put it as an alternative. (Like I said, the problem with Home/End is that if you are typing a message, of course it just moves the cursor around, while Alt-PgUp/Dn is meant to always scroll the window)
19:48:58 <vicnet> aleth: OK
19:49:03 <flo> vicnet: see why I wanted you to discuss it with aleth? ;)
19:49:20 <vicnet> flo: yep :)
19:49:47 <dew> this has got to be the most active channel on the server ;)
19:50:09 <aleth> Release day :)
19:50:32 <vicnet> well, as aleth mentioned that IB hasn't been tested in Unity, I also want to mention that there's no system tray icon… The system tray was apparently completely changed with Unity… IB behaves as it should, but once it's minimized there's no way to open it back up as there's no icon…
19:51:09 <aleth> I think clokep_work used it on unity for a bit, but not for long.
19:51:19 <vicnet> I had the same issue with Skype until the latest release, where they fixed the icon. I just had to be careful not to close the window or it would be minimized where I couldn't restore it anymore…
19:51:22 <aleth> That sounds like another bug worth filing...
19:51:39 * aleth mutters something about system trays
19:51:44 <vicnet> :)
19:51:55 <aleth> Each desktop manager seems to have their own little version
19:54:07 <flo> oh man, system trays... :(
19:55:25 <aleth> Apparently Windows 8 apps now sometimes have one in the the app window titlebar :-/
19:55:45 <aleth> (probably an app tray in that case, I don't know)
19:56:06 <vicnet> alright, I'll file these bugs, but not before eating some food :) brb
19:57:01 <aleth> How's the server holding up? lots of downloads or has no major site spotted it yet?
19:57:22 <aleth> (not that they will, necessarily)
20:03:31 <aleth> Heh https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-2d/+bug/947468
20:03:34 <dew> Do you want me to spam it?
20:03:41 <dew> I'll contact neowin
20:03:47 <dew> they'll be all over it ;)
20:03:50 <douglaswth> flo: I sent a message in ISO-8859-1 to my instantbird set with UTF-8 and it doesn't seem to be doing a very good job autoconverting it: it came out as blank
20:03:53 <wnayes> I'm trying to merge my code with the main instanbird repo, and that includes upgrading my mozilla repo. I think I got the same error (http://pastebin.instantbird.com/60131) when going from Moz 12 -> 13, but fixed it by just deleting everything and pulling mozilla again. Is there something I can do that is less destructive?
20:04:48 <aleth> dew: ask flo if he would like to advertise ;)
20:05:03 <wnayes> dew: http://www.neowin.net/news/instantbird-12 Looks like they already have it.
20:05:25 <flo> dew: you mean http://www.neowin.net/news/instantbird-12 ?
20:05:44 <flo> http://www.chip.de/downloads/Instantbird_29200124.html also has it already
20:05:56 <aleth> That was quick...
20:06:40 <aleth> That German one actually links to the release notes
20:07:17 <aleth> I wonder if Mic could tell them it's not Windows-only ;)
20:07:23 <flo> wnayes: you haven't edited anything in the mozilla/ folder right?
20:07:54 <wnayes> flo: No, I'm not sure how I can get my working copy to be Moz14 at this point
20:08:07 <dew> damn flo, they are on the ball with that
20:08:12 <flo> aleth: they already mention that OS X and linux builds can be downloaded from the authors' website ;)
20:08:16 <aleth> douglaswth: you want to talk to clokep_work ;)
20:08:21 <flo> aleth: but they still pretend it's compatible with win2000...
20:08:41 <flo> aleth: nah, clokep_work ignores encoding issues :(
20:08:52 <flo> douglaswth: it's strange, it tends to work very well for me
20:09:20 <douglaswth> flo: maybe it is platform dependent? I'm on windows 7
20:09:22 <flo> wnayes: cd mozilla/ && hg up -C FIREFOX_14_0_1_RELEASE
20:09:29 <flo> douglaswth: ah, quite possible
20:10:08 <flo> douglaswth: it attempts to convert the received characters with both the encoding provided by the user, and the system's default encoding
20:10:21 <flo> on my mac iso-<whatever that number is> is the default
20:10:26 <aleth> douglaswth: Could you pastebin your message and what you received?
20:10:40 <flo> and see if there are errors in the error console!
20:12:26 <wnayes> flo: Thanks, that did the trick :)
20:12:59 <flo> wnayes: :)
20:13:19 <flo> wnayes: I think another solution is: python client.py checkout --skip-instantbird --clean
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20:13:39 <flo> (--skip-instantbird is so that the --clean doesn't revert your changes)
20:14:40 <clokep_work> vicnet: I think auto-joined channels is an option in the wizard, is it not?
20:16:10 <flo> clokep_work: it isn't
20:16:18 <flo> it's only in the account properties (stupid) dialog
20:16:39 <clokep_work> aleth: My Ubuntu machien runs Unity...but I SSH into it 98% of the time. So not really tested...
20:17:46 <-- bahrico has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
20:18:34 <douglaswth> flo, aleth: hmm, it messes up with a single character, but I sent a full word that worked fine
20:18:35 <clokep_work> flo: Ah OK. Stupid. :(
20:18:54 <clokep_work> douglaswth: I think it attempts to guess encoding, which is hard to tell from a single character...?
20:19:08 <douglaswth> I'd believe that
20:20:39 <flo> clokep_work: I don't think we guess. iirc we try <user provided encoding> (utf8 in your case) and if that fails we convert the string using the system default encoding
20:20:57 --> bahrico has joined #instantbird
20:20:59 <flo> clokep_work: we wanted to guess, but couldn't figure out how the Mozilla chardet code works
20:21:18 <clokep_work> Ah, maybe that's what it was. Right. And they removed the chardet anyway...(or moved it into nsIDocshell or something).
20:21:25 <-- bahrico has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
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20:21:35 <douglaswth> I imagine that the system default on windows isn't latin1 but the weird windows latin1 like encoding
20:22:46 <flo> that's possible :(
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20:33:35 <clokep_work> douglaswth: It'd be good if you could file a bug with strings you're trying to send (and ideally what is actually being sent to the server, I think...)
20:39:43 <flo> finishing a release feels so much like it's time to take vacations!
20:40:18 <aleth> flo: luckily you have one coming up :)
20:41:28 <flo> aleth: I still have 5 Tb bugs to fix before that!
20:41:32 <flo> in only 2 days
20:41:52 <aleth> uh, is there a merge while you are away?
20:42:09 <flo> aleth: the last Tb15 beta will be built on August 20
20:42:35 <flo> aleth: so basically, when I'll get back from my vacations, it will already be too late to push any additional change for Tb15
20:42:56 <aleth> sounds like you will really need a vacation by friday then ;)
20:43:09 <flo> yeah
20:43:35 <flo> I'll drive 10+ hours Saturday, so I'll probably be more tired after that than Friday evening though ;)
20:44:22 <aleth> more workouts for the AMI...
20:45:01 --> jb has joined #instantbird
20:45:03 <flo> sure, the 2400km in July were definitely not enough for this summer ;)
20:45:20 <flo> uh, jb is in Germany? :)
20:49:20 <jb> flo: yep. Berlin
20:49:37 <jb> flo: oder, ja, im Berlin
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20:57:50 <Mook> the chardet code is only usable from C++, IIRC... at least, as of Gecko 1.9.x :p
20:57:56 <Mook> (touched it for songbird at one point)
20:58:32 <clokep_work> Mook: Yes, it still is.
20:58:57 <clokep_work> You're using Daily full time for IRC now?
20:59:11 <Mook> yep
20:59:31 <flo> sounds better than ChatZilla :)
20:59:39 <clokep_work> Nice. :) No more _as?
20:59:54 <Mook> I'm on a break from work at the moment, will be back in ~ month or so
21:00:08 <clokep_work> Wow, nice break. :)
21:00:23 <clokep_work> That means...you have time to work on Instantbird, right? :P
21:01:25 <Mook> right :p
21:01:43 <Mook> </s>
21:02:39 <flo> so we just need to find some obscure and difficult bug to motivate Mook to spend his time on it :)
21:02:55 * clokep_work is now known as EionRobb_
21:03:00 <aleth> add-onify the Tb conv-binding should do it ;)
21:03:00 <EionRobb_> File transfer?
21:03:04 * EionRobb_ is now known as clokep_work
21:03:14 <aleth> (that probably isn't even that hard...)
21:03:14 <Mook> I started to work on the copy thing, then got fed up with how bad logging was :p
21:03:29 <flo> the copy thing?
21:03:40 <EionRobb> clokep_work: aww, I was going to say that :P
21:03:50 <Mook> not copying the copy-on-select stuff on linux, IIRC, due to interaction with the smart copy code
21:04:16 * Mook isn't that excited about trying to implement DCC SEND
21:05:15 <EionRobb> can I be excited for you? ;)
21:05:33 <flo> clokep_work: bah, you confused me with your nick change, because Instantbird showed me "File transfer?" was from clokep_work because of the clokep_work color, and only after that, when I saw EionRobb talking, I noticed the previous message was with a nick that looked like EionRobb :-S
21:05:50 <Mook> dude, IRC specs
21:06:05 <Mook> nothing touching that can exceed the horribleness
21:06:11 <flo> Mook: then just reimplement MSNP with file transfer support? :)
21:07:16 <aleth> Just pull in FileLink and forget about protocol-specific messes :)
21:08:32 <clokep_work> The DCC stuff actually is fairly well specific IIRC.
21:08:38 <clokep_work> ALthough there's like 40 alterations to it.
21:09:02 <Mook> huh, lurking on #cz made me think it was a horrible mess
21:09:13 <Mook> though that might have to do with resumes
21:10:04 <clokep_work> Yes. And that their code is from like the 1960s. ;)
21:12:18 <Mook> as I understood it, it mostly had to do with mIRC doing some crazy things that were under-specified.
21:12:44 <clokep_work> I think you pretty much just summarized all of IRC.
21:13:22 <Mook> pretty much, yeah
21:14:51 <flo> wnayes: is it standard to have a "skip" button between "back" and "next"? (re http://www.tc.umn.edu/~nayes006/gsoc2012/files/UIWelcomeCurrent.png)
21:16:17 <wnayes> flo: Not sure, the wizard dictates a lot of the button placement. I might have moved it there as opposed to the far left.
21:17:09 <Mook> Hmm. Please ignore me if you don't feel like talking UI:
21:17:09 <Mook> List the found accounts, with checkboxes, so skip is just "check nothing and press next"?
21:17:13 <clokep_work> Mook: Compile Instantbird w/ m-c and then play with WebRTC stuff?
21:17:21 * Mook wonders what the difference between Skip and Cancel is
21:17:50 <Mook> That reminds me, I have more silly things to play with... BBL, going to try to compile fennec for x86 again
21:17:58 <wnayes> Mook: Skip brings up the protocol list for adding a new account.
21:18:50 <wnayes> I am thinking that welcome page would be shown only once, and then buttons in the account manager could jump users to where they want to go.
21:19:22 <wnayes> (as in, http://www.tc.umn.edu/~nayes006/gsoc2012/files/UIAccountsManagerCurrent.png)
21:20:18 <flo> I dislike that "Import Accounts" button in the account manager
21:20:29 <flo> it's an action that users are likely to do only once, maybe twice
21:20:36 <flo> it shouldn't be that visible
21:20:42 <aleth> "skip" does look a bit confusing. 
21:22:09 <aleth> And you don't need a back button on the first page.
21:22:48 <flo> I think "Skip" should be where there's usually the "next" button
21:22:48 <aleth> maybe just "import" and "skip"?
21:23:07 <flo> and whatever we put in the middle of the window should have a way to start the import
21:23:11 <aleth> (no separate "cancel")
21:23:13 <clokep_work> Wow at 379 downloads? http://queze.net/goinfre/instantbird-1.2.download-count.txt
21:23:46 <flo> and then we don't need the "import accounts" button in the account manager, because we can just show again the same wizard page the next time the wizard is opened
21:24:29 <flo> wnayes: do you have some code to check if an account you detected as importable is already configured in the user's profile? If it is, I think we should either not list it, or list it with the checkbox unchecked by default.
21:25:18 <wnayes> I did add detection for that, though things like an email with/without an ending slash might get through.
21:25:59 <flo> you mean with or without resource for gtalk/xmpp?
21:26:12 <-- EionRobb has quit (Ping timeout)
21:26:16 <flo> (I don't see why there would be a / at the end of an email of an MSN account)
21:26:57 <wnayes> I check the each found account against existing imIAccount name and protocol.
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21:27:51 <wnayes> Just wasn't sure if that was extensive enough to prevent anything slipping though. I thought I had noticed Pidgin tacking on "\"s to emails
21:28:36 <wnayes> But I would say it would be best to avoid duplicates as the log importing might end up duplicating content. It is really designed to happen once.
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21:30:46 <flo> wnayes: so there's code when creating a new account from the current wizard to check for duplicates and prevent the user from creating duplicates.
21:31:01 <flo> wnayes: you should just call that, and if it doesn't work, it's the prpl author's fault, not yours
21:31:28 <wnayes> flo: Yes :) http://hg.instantbird.org/users/wnayes/file/tip/instantbird/content/accountWizard.js#l98
21:32:11 <wnayes> If seen as a duplicate a found account won't be listed at all.
21:32:22 <clokep_work> Uhh...that's a }...
21:32:36 <flo> wnayes: I meant http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/accountWizard.js#68
21:33:17 <wnayes> Ah I must have committed since, I was trying Line 94
21:34:27 <wnayes> Oh, didn't know that existed. :) Probably covers a few more checks too.
21:34:38 <-- Mnyromyr has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [SeaMonkey 1.1.19/2010030105])
21:34:43 <flo> wnayes: the account names are normalized by the protocol plugins
21:35:05 <flo> if accountExists returns false and leads you to create a duplicate, it's the plug-in's fault
21:35:38 <clokep_work> Isn't that unimplemented for JS Protos? ;)
21:35:51 <flo> (and I think all JS prpls suck at it currently, untly 1511 gets fixed)
21:35:58 <wnayes> flo: OK, I had read an above message as a question ("so there's code when creating...")
21:36:04 <flo> clokep_work: it's waiting for your review apparently :-P
21:36:11 <clokep_work> flo: Yes.
21:36:18 <clokep_work> Well it's a 1.3 feature apparently. ;)
21:36:46 <flo> clokep_work: we could have taken it for 1.2
21:36:57 <clokep_work> flo: If I had reviewed it.
21:37:00 * clokep_work ran out of time.
21:37:47 <flo> yeah, that happens for all releases anyway, some patches barely miss it
21:38:04 <wnayes> My biggest concern is still the first wizard page, as there's a lot of ideas being discussed about buttons, content, etc.
21:38:44 <aleth> I think you need only 2 buttons on that page
21:39:26 <wnayes> What about not having any additional buttons, and if accounts are found the message in the middle will linkify and say something like "X accounts were found, [click here] to view them."
21:39:48 <wnayes> which would create the page advance
21:45:07 <flo> wnayes: that's more or less what I was about to suggest
21:45:27 <flo> and the "next" button can be "skip" until the found accounts are shown
21:45:38 <aleth> But not a link - that makes it look like it will open a webpage.
21:48:07 <wnayes> flo: I'm leaning towards not having the search start unless prompted by the user. The search is really fast, and might create confusion if there's flickering right away on the first page.
21:48:49 <flo> I don't understand. Why would you not want to do the search if it's fast?
21:50:06 <clokep_work> Isn't the point that the search should just run (at least if it's never been run)
21:50:09 <flo> are you sure it will be fast on a machine where disk I/O are slow (network drive, machine currently swapping...)
21:50:58 <-- clokep_work has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
21:51:03 <wnayes> As it is now there's a bit of commotion on the wizard opening, as it flicks from "Searching for accounts" and the ticker to "X accounts were found". And some users might not appreciate this happening without their consent (and on every wizard instance opened)
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21:53:12 <wnayes> And it could take longer on other machines, so I guess what I'm suggesting is the user be aware that the search can be done, have a control (button, etc.) to start the search, and then a way to view these accounts. But if they are not interested, Next would head to the regular new account configuration.
22:06:06 <flo> wnayes: so if the user asked us to do the search, we no longer need the place holder with "N accounts were found", we can directly show the accounts as we find them
22:07:45 <wnayes> flo: I'm thinking there are still issues with the threading too...
22:07:59 <flo> the threading?
22:09:16 <wnayes> The UI seems to stall up during the search (from what I can tell, again, it's so fast and it happens on the window opening that I'm not 100% sure)
22:10:44 <-- vicnet has quit (Ping timeout)
22:10:50 <flo> during disk I/O?
22:11:00 <flo> aaaah, that kind of threads!
22:11:28 <flo> I was still thinking about UI, so I thought you were talking about some kind of conversation or email threads, and I didn't see how it was related :-D
22:12:20 <wnayes> flo: The executeSoon business :s
22:13:04 <flo> executeSoon doesn't make disk I/O non blocking
22:14:12 <wnayes> I believe just about all of my disk I/O is through NetUtils.asyncFetch... there might be one instance where it is not
22:14:42 <flo> uh, vicnet left just when I wanted to ask something :-/
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22:14:54 <flo> wnayes: would be nice to check :)
22:15:02 <flo> vicnet: could you join #frenchmoz ? :)
22:16:58 <wnayes> flo: In XChat I needed to read two files, and I did a sync read within the async reading method to avoid some issue I thought I might have (or was having, this was quite awhile ago :))
22:17:37 <flo> seems like something we will need to fix someday ;)
22:17:49 <wnayes> I'll try disabling that one and seeing if the UI issues stem from that
22:18:11 <vicnet> flo: I was already there :) just not paying attention though, so thanks
22:20:07 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested feedback from florian@instantbi rd.org for attachment 1730 on bug 1547.
22:20:09 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1547 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Check for open conversations when adding a buddy
22:20:23 <aleth> ^^ not for this week ;)
22:20:40 <flo> aleth: I'm scared just by the title of the bug!
22:21:49 <aleth> yeah... it kind of goes together with bug 1569
22:21:52 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1569 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add someone as a buddy directly from an open conversation
22:22:41 <flo> wnayes: so I would suggest that we talk about this part of the UI (the first step) again tomorrow. I'll sleep on it :).
22:23:01 <flo> I've got some comments about your other screenshots:
22:23:06 <wnayes> flo: OK, sounds good.
22:23:23 <flo> about http://www.tc.umn.edu/~nayes006/gsoc2012/files/UISelectAccountsCurrent.png Shouldn't the radio buttons be disabled if there's only one possible client to import from?
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22:24:00 <flo> I think the borders between the accounts are not correctly themed. They should look like the borders between accounts in the account manager. (aren't these borders dotted on Windows?)
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22:24:52 <flo> and some of the spacing isn't right. There's too much horizontal space between the protocol icon and the check box. It should be the same as the horizontal spacing you have between the protocol icon and the 2 labels.
22:25:31 <wnayes> flo: What do you think about a combobox instead of the radiobuttons (and just a label as you mention when only one client has an account)?
22:25:35 <flo> there's too much vertical spacing between the account name and the "Import from" label. It should be the same as the spacing between the top of the account name and the border above it; and the between the "Import from" label and the border under it.
22:26:11 <flo> wnayes: not sure.
22:26:38 <flo> wnayes: would be easier to have an opinion if you could show the current design with 2 or more clients for the same account, and a mockup of what a combobox would look like instead
22:27:07 <wnayes> The radiobuttons really absorb a lot of space in the wizard window and make the listitem heights unequal.
22:27:10 <wnayes> OK :)
22:28:17 <flo> wnayes: I think combobox could be ok, yes.
22:28:43 <flo> still on that step of the wizard, what about greying out the protocol icons of the accounts that are unchecked?
22:29:23 <flo> well, greying out is a bit difficult (needs an svg filter...) maybe just use the opacity, like we do on the account manager
22:29:54 <wnayes> flo: Sounds cool to me :)
22:30:16 <flo> could also grey out the names
22:30:25 <flo> basically, just follow the current theme of the account manager, so that it looks consistent
22:31:03 <flo> ok, and now http://www.tc.umn.edu/~nayes006/gsoc2012/files/UIAccountSummaryCurrent.png
22:31:09 <wnayes> I had an image in the pad previously of a multi-radiobutton listitem, http://i.imgur.com/hIPPG.png
22:32:44 <flo> ok, thanks. Yes, you are right that it's not really pretty when the same account is on multiple existing clients (do we expect this to be a frequent situation?)
22:33:27 <flo> so about http://www.tc.umn.edu/~nayes006/gsoc2012/files/UIAccountSummaryCurrent.png My first reaction when seeing this image was "uh, this looks like someone forgot to include the css file for this xul dialog"
22:35:42 <wnayes> the checkboxes are definitely in need of rethinking, but the basic idea was to have a smaller list item with a quick summary an account.
22:36:10 <flo> wnayes: at this point these accounts almost exist, so I think they should look almost like in the account manager
22:36:43 <flo> the smaller icons isn't a good idea. You are closer to have the accounts, and the icon becomes smaller (as if it was now further away)?
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22:37:54 <flo> my suggestion would be to use exactly the layout of the account manager. Big icon on the left side. Bold account name on the first line. On the second line the text "Will be imported from <client name>" and on the right side of the first line, the checkbox, with the checkbox on the right (like in the account manager).
22:38:18 <flo> borders between accounts like in the account manager (on mac there's no border, it's just the background color of accounts that alternates)
22:38:56 <wnayes> My rationale was that "Add another account" would allow more and more accounts to be listed there, so the list could potentially get long. But I get what you are saying.
22:39:43 <flo> yeah, you could get a scrollbar
22:39:52 <flo> I think the current summary can already have a scrollbar
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22:46:04 <GeekShadow> yo
22:46:06 <GeekShadow> congrats !
22:46:15 <GeekShadow> oh flo no more here :p
22:49:48 <aleth> He will see it tomorrow :)
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22:50:45 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 
22:51:22 <flo> so, my stupid phone doesn't work correctly when plugged to a power outlet...
22:51:24 <flo> I was saying:
22:51:30 <flo> 00:41:14 - flo : wnayes: so I was thinking we should use the same summary when importing accounts and when adding new accounts, and the line "Will be imported from Pidgin" would be replaced with "Will be created", but if we do that, I'm wondering how one can change his mind and cancel one of the accounts on the list
22:51:30 <flo> 00:41:48 - flo : and now I'm thinking http://www.tc.umn.edu/~nayes006/gsoc2012/files/UISelectAccountsCurrent.png and http://www.tc.umn.edu/~nayes006/gsoc2012/files/UIAccountSummaryCurrent.png are the same step
22:51:30 <flo> 00:42:46 - flo : we just need to have a checkbox next to all accounts in the summary to cancel the creation of that account.
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22:52:38 <GeekShadow> hey flo congrats :)
22:52:49 <GeekShadow> when will automatic updates will be pushed ?
22:52:49 <flo> GeekShadow: :)
22:52:58 <flo> GeekShadow: probably tomorrow
22:53:03 <GeekShadow> ok
22:53:06 <flo> GeekShadow: but you can already click "check for updates"
22:53:11 <flo> it should work
22:53:14 <GeekShadow> it's not
22:53:17 <flo> it did during my testing on mac at least
22:53:23 <flo> ah?
22:53:33 <flo> is this from linux?
22:53:39 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1623 filed by goofyfr@gmail.com.
22:53:42 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1623 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, [fr] typofixing on myspace.properties file
22:53:46 <GeekShadow> on Windows 7/x86 version 1.1 (20111014141651)
22:53:53 <GeekShadow> ahhh goofy :D
22:53:59 <flo> :)
22:54:20 <wnayes> flo: At one point I had thought they could be the same step too. The account immediately added could be removed by hitting Back and reconfiguring (I'm thinking I'll need to keep the configurations of all creating accounts in some stack to keep track during the wizard Back/Next navigation)
22:54:21 <flo> has anybody successfully tested the update on Windows?
22:54:24 <GeekShadow> flo, are you coming to the mozcamp in september ?
22:54:31 <flo> GeekShadow: yes
22:54:48 <GeekShadow> great
22:55:15 <flo> wnayes: so what's blocking you to put these 2 steps in one?
22:55:40 <roflo1> Auto update still says "no updates availoable" (Win7)
22:55:57 <wnayes> flo: Nothing, I just didn't do that at the time I made the basic UI
22:57:09 * wnayes is not sure if he was having importing search threading issues or if just all windows have varying render times...
22:57:27 <-- roflo1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1)
22:57:46 <flo> aleth: just glanced at your patch. Any reason for not calling _forgetConv in the replaceConv method?
22:59:22 <flo> oooooh, I forgot to clear the update cache after enabling them!
22:59:43 <aleth> Yes, I don't want to destroy the browser and I don't need to unregister the conversation
23:00:19 <aleth> (I want to register it)
23:00:51 <flo> can whoever tested the update with the nick roflo1 test again? :)
23:01:38 <aleth> That sounds like something for the wiki ;)
23:01:53 <flo> aleth: what?
23:02:05 <aleth> "clear the update cache after enabling..."
23:02:37 <flo> I hope to find the time and motivation to rewrite the server side of the update system for 1.3 ;)
23:03:06 <flo> I'm tired of the SQL hand editing currently involved, and messing with files on the disk. I would like it to have a very simple web UI that other people could access too
23:03:39 <flo> the web ui should provide simple stats of what updates are being done, so that it's possible to spot mistakes (or "strange activities") quickly after performing a change
23:04:47 <flo> it should also make it easy to test the changes (ie display the result of some common requests)
23:05:27 <aleth> I wonder how easy that is, but less painful releases sounds good..
23:06:42 <flo> aleth: I would drop many features of the existing system
23:07:02 <flo> aleth: we made it way too complicated. We thought we could fully automate it.
23:07:20 <flo> That never worked because version numbering schemes change more or less for each release
23:07:39 <flo> there's currently a complicated channel handling, but we are no longer doing alpha and beta builds since 1.0 has been released
23:09:19 <flo> and major updates. Such a mess! They are supposed to be automatic, and detected based on the version number of the build requesting an update, and the version numbers of what's registered in the update system.
23:09:33 <aleth> Sounds like a headache.
23:09:48 <aleth> Clever, but...
23:10:38 <aleth> Hopefully it won't need a complete rewrite when you strip it down...
23:11:05 <flo> and since we put that update system in place, we kept piling more hacks above it to make it do things that became needed, but it wasn't designed to do at first.
23:11:28 <flo> parts of the code should be reusable
23:12:36 <flo> something that we also failed to design is expiring old irrelevant builds
23:12:48 <flo> I think there's 3000 or so builds registered in the system currently
23:12:58 <flo> if not more
23:13:01 <aleth>  whoa!
23:13:10 <aleth> all the nightlies...
23:13:21 <flo> nightlies that are more than 3 days old are completely useless (from an update system point of view)
23:14:23 <flo> but even some releases are likely now pointless in the update system
23:14:57 <flo> we only need to keep those that we want to be able to create partial update files from (so for 1.2 we needed to have 1.0 and 1.1 in the update system) and we also need to have all version that are the last supporting an OS
23:15:07 <flo> so for example 0.2 was the latest release supporting OS X 10.4
23:15:28 <flo> 1.1 was the last supporting Windows 2000 and XP pre SP2
23:15:35 <flo> 1.2 will be the last supporting PPC and OS X 10.5
23:16:11 <flo> btw, desupporting some old OS versions is also something we completely failed to design.
23:16:12 <aleth> But that'll be around 10-20 versions, not thousands...
23:18:20 <flo> some things magically worked though
23:18:36 <flo> 1.2a1pre were automagically updated to 1.3a1pre (I think the were at least)
23:19:10 <aleth> Hmm, I could have tested that...
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23:19:56 <aleth> You're right :)
23:20:33 <GeekShadow> flo, ok update work now
23:20:33 <flo> can anybody confirm that the 1.1->1.2 update works as expected on windows?
23:20:37 <GeekShadow> :D
23:20:49 <GeekShadow> almost read your mind
23:20:49 <aleth> Though the a1pre suffix is really confusing...
23:21:05 <flo> aleth: you want to drop it?
23:21:33 <flo> aleth: I think the update system has decided that 1.*pre is nightlies of 1.0 ;)
23:21:47 <aleth> I don't particularly mind, but why isn't it just 1.2a?
23:21:49 <wnayes> flo: I'm on 1.3a1pre which updated this morning from 1.2a1pre like any other update would.
23:22:00 <flo> wnayes: :)
23:22:01 <GeekShadow> flo, update worked
23:22:31 <aleth> But if it ain't broke... ;)
23:23:30 <dew> flo never sleeps
23:24:43 <vicnet> Hey aleth, since there's that bug open for Unity about the Alt key, should I still file one for Instabtbird?
23:24:55 <aleth> vicnet: Yes please
23:25:01 <vicnet> OK
23:25:19 <aleth> It's not necessarily quite the same thing... and it's still something we should track
23:25:51 <vicnet> alright; I'll be sure to refer to the Unity bug on there
23:26:07 <aleth> Oh, btw could you try this and see if it makes the problem go away? http://askubuntu.com/questions/122209/how-do-i-modify-or-disable-the-huds-use-of-the-alt-key
23:26:17 <aleth> Just to check the diagnosis...
23:26:27 <vicnet> sure
23:27:02 <flo> dew: I think I should go to bed actually :-P
23:27:56 <vicnet> lol I didn't even know there was a system setting option up there… d'oh
23:28:05 <clokep> aleth: It's 1.3a would mean "1.3 alpha" the "pre" tag means it's a nightly build, essentially.
23:28:50 <aleth> If it was done from scratch, we could just call it "nightly"
23:28:56 <flo> and alpha/beta always have a number
23:29:07 <flo> aleth: we still want to know which nightly it is
23:29:19 <aleth> flo: I meant as the suffix ;)
23:29:23 <flo> aleth: if we were 100% sure we will never want to release an alpha or beta, it could be 1.3pre
23:29:25 <vicnet> aleth: yep, that fixes it :) thanks! That HUD thing was annoying to me for other reasons, too…
23:30:10 <aleth> vicnet: cool :) Now we have a workaround to share...
23:30:36 <vicnet> aleth: I guess I'll mention that on the bug report as well :)
23:30:43 <aleth> :)
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23:32:28 <flo> ah, wrong IRC client ;)
23:32:53 <aleth> vicnet: Put in your ubuntu and unity version too... (those are 2 different things apparently)
23:33:11 <vicnet> OK
23:33:32 <flo> good night :)
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23:33:42 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from vicnett@gmail.com for attachment 1795 on bug 1623.
23:33:45 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1623 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, [fr] typofixing on myspace.properties file
23:34:00 <clokep> I think that's the right person...
23:34:38 <vicnet> yep
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23:37:56 <vicnet> clokep: I'm so new to all this… that just means you want me to review the patch, and apply it and resolve the bug if applicable, right?
23:40:10 <clokep> vicnet: Right, so it means you should review it (r+ if it's good or r- if it's bad). And if it's r-...include some comments about what to fix.
23:40:21 <clokep> If it's good then apply the patch and commit it (using the patch authors name).
23:40:33 <clokep> And then resolve the bug as fixed and include a link to the commit that fixes it. :)
23:40:54 <aleth> myspace hasa /torch command?!
23:41:01 <vicnet> clokep: OK, thanks for the mini-tutorial :) I'll do that now
23:41:30 <vicnet> aleth: that was my first thought when I saw that as well…
23:44:37 <clokep> vicnet: No problem. Let me know if you have more questions.
23:44:51 <clokep> (Oh and if the bug is valid you should mark it as assigned, new, resolved and the assignee, etc.!)
23:45:32 <vicnet> clokep: OK, thanks! I probably will have more questions
23:45:53 <vicnet> well, here's one: so I assign it to myself?
23:46:22 <clokep> You assign it to the person who is working on it (i.e. who made the patch).
23:47:27 <vicnet> OK, so not me… :)
23:49:25 <clokep> Would be...goofy.
23:51:17 <vicnet> Correct. So, do I need to mark the bug as new, then assign it to goofy, then resolve it, or is that all done in one step once I've reviewed the patch?
23:51:22 * vicnet so confused
23:51:39 <clokep> If you checked it in already, you can immediately go from confirmed to resolved.
23:51:56 <clokep> Uusally bugs sit for a long time as unconfirmed or "new" (new means, "Yes, we know it's a bug, but no one is working on it.")
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23:52:12 <clokep> Then once someone works on it...it'll be "assigned"...usually for some time while reviews occur.
23:52:24 <clokep> Then once it's fixed, we set it to resolved fixed.
23:53:00 <deOmega> hi  guys, I have a message style that I would like to upload or if someone would like to try it first.
23:53:02 <vicnet> OK, so you were just giving me general guidlines. In this case I'll just jump to resolved then?
23:53:17 <deOmega> it is a slight modification of  cleanless sharp
23:53:41 <aleth> Yay, deOmega is writing add-ons! :)
23:54:20 <deOmega> lol.  Not so fast, just a mild modification
23:54:20 <aleth> deOmega: Easiest way is to just upload it - it will be marked "experimental" anyway until you decide you want to take it public
23:54:57 <deOmega> ok great.. the license part.. it is custom on the site.
23:55:03 <deOmega> https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/117#reviews
23:55:19 <deOmega> so i am planning to just do teh same thing. no?
23:55:45 <clokep> vicnet: Precisely.
23:56:17 <deOmega> congratulations on teh release by the way.. and very nice update on what has been going on in the background
23:56:18 <clokep> deOmega: You can check the license on the original site like the license says. :)
23:56:46 <clokep> Is it actually a modification to that style or is it a fix to get it to work in Instantbird btw?
23:56:56 <clokep> aleth should know how we handle that...
23:57:16 <aleth> If it's a fix then an admin can add deOmega to the author list and he then "owns" it and can upload new versions
23:57:24 <deOmega> It is just a  modification...  it was working with IB fine once the install.rdf was modified
23:58:52 <deOmega> I will  just fire away and not make it complicated since this isnot brain surgery :)
23:59:07 <aleth> Yes it's quite straightforward
23:59:30 <-- wnayes has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
23:59:31 <aleth> (well... it's AIO, so with a pinch of salt...)