#instantbird log on 08 06 2012

All times are UTC.

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01:51:56 <clokep> flo: I agree, but encrypted passwords /needs/ to be on there, a lot of people requested it.
01:55:00 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com granted review for attachment 1791 on bug 1231.
01:55:03 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1231 nor, --, 1.2, florian, NEW, 'Display Formatting of incoming messages', not implemented in JS-XMPP
01:55:35 <clokep> And sorry I was gone all day, was out doing things.
01:56:22 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1618 to FIXED.
01:56:24 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1618 maj, --, 1.2, florian, RESO FIXED, Tags are never really removed from contacts
01:57:23 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1524 to FIXED.
01:57:31 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1524 nor, --, 1.2, florian, RESO FIXED, Moving a JS-XMPP buddy from a tag to another should work and save this change on the server
01:58:13 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1231 to FIXED.
01:58:16 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1231 nor, --, 1.2, florian, RESO FIXED, 'Display Formatting of incoming messages', not implemented in JS-XMPP
02:14:25 <clokep> Also, I'm all for disabling nightlies until release.
02:16:21 <instant-buildbot> build #667 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Failure [failed shell_2]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/667
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02:41:18 <instant-buildbot> build #582 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/582
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06:12:29 <instant-buildbot> build #574 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/574
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06:53:35 <instant-buildbot> build #668 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Failure [failed shell_2]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/668
07:13:49 <instant-buildbot> build #2 of win32-release-1.2 is complete: Failure [failed shell_2]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-release-1.2/builds/2
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07:22:33 <instant-buildbot> build #3 of win32-release-1.2 is complete: Failure [failed shell_2]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-release-1.2/builds/3
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07:23:24 <instant-buildbot> build #4 of win32-release-1.2 is complete: Failure [failed shell_2]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-release-1.2/builds/4
07:25:27 <instant-buildbot> build #5 of win32-release-1.2 is complete: Failure [failed shell_2]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-release-1.2/builds/5
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09:44:58 <flo> I forced a few add-ons (show nicks, status reminder, dom inspector) to be compatible with current nightlies using AIO's UI, but I can't force it for hide auto-joins as it's in the sandbox because it misses a screenshot
09:45:07 <flo> if anybody has a screenshot to offer, I'll be happy to upload it :)
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10:22:23 <clokep> flo: What would be a screenshot of it? Just a bunch of conversations on hold? :p
10:22:29 * clokep could give you that.
10:22:34 <flo> clokep: I think so, yes
10:24:42 <flo> https://wiki.mozilla.org/MozCampEU2012/New-Skies-For-Thunderbird ça me fait sourire jaune à chaque fois que je vois la description du boulot actuel du chef de l'équipe Tb "I am working on giving Thunderbird as much kinetic energy so it can reach Escape Velocity "
10:25:19 * clokep wonders if http://i.imgur.com/c40nS.png is good enough.
10:25:46 <clokep> Also, doesn't show nick need to be re-uploaded?
10:26:10 <flo> I did
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10:30:54 * clokep wonders if bug 1503 is done then?
10:30:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1503 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Update add-ons on AIO for Instantbird 1.2
10:31:31 <clokep> Also were there 1.2 candidates for windows that I just can't find? :)
10:32:01 <flo> clokep: they are still building
10:32:26 <flo> clokep: there was an issue on the build slave yesterday, and I had to wait for even to come back from his week-end to fix/work-around it this morning
10:32:46 <clokep> OK! 
10:33:19 <flo> clokep: have you uploaded the screenshot for Hide Auto-Joins, nominated the add-on for review, then pushed it to public, and finally bumped the max version? :)
10:33:36 <clokep> Can I do that? (As an admin.)
10:34:00 <flo> "nominated the add-on for review" may by the only part you can't do. But I would hope you can.
10:34:09 <flo> *be
10:34:26 <flo> as an admin you should be able to edit anything on any add-on
10:36:11 <clokep> OK...doing it now...
10:37:32 <flo> clokep: "- Fix the localization around system requirements (the versions should be replaced with %S)" why do we need that, actually?
10:37:48 <clokep> flo: You said I should add it there. :p
10:38:10 <clokep> Should I bump it to 1.2.* or 1.3a1pre?
10:38:12 <flo> no, I said replacing Win2000 with xp sp2 as the minimum should be there
10:38:17 <flo> 1.3a1pre
10:38:46 <clokep> Also, according to bug 1503, a new version of that is available.
10:38:50 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1503 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Update add-ons on AIO for Instantbird 1.2
10:38:58 <clokep> So I should upload that instead.
10:39:12 <flo> that = ?
10:39:24 <clokep> The new version?
10:39:43 <flo> whatever, do as you think makes sense :)
10:40:02 <clokep> flo: http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/120804/#m228
10:40:47 <flo> clokep: "Oh....wait those aren't even localized." at the next line ;)
10:41:06 <flo> what I meant is "if the version is inside a localizable string, it should be replaced with a %S instead of hardcoded"
10:41:10 <flo> I wasn't clear, sorry
10:41:28 <clokep> Ah OK.
10:41:32 <clokep> Just remove it then. :)
10:41:48 <flo> we still need to check-in yoru patch, don't we?
10:42:00 <flo> or is it done already?
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10:45:11 <flo> clokep: thanks :)
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10:45:19 <clokep> flo: Which patch?
10:45:32 <flo> I added that in the pad already, don't bother :)
10:45:35 <clokep> And Hide Auto-Joins is updated. I would have done all the updates for those if I had realized I could!
10:45:39 <flo> the patch to system-requirements.php
10:46:13 <flo> Colorize and Highlight are stuck in the sandbox / not updated, but I think highlight needs to be seriously tested and debugged
10:46:26 <clokep> Ah, yes. That's fair enough.
10:46:39 <clokep> And yes, that patch (and the updated copyright year?)
10:46:40 <flo> Colorize probably just needs a screenshot and to be pushed to public with the max version bumped
10:46:57 <flo> but that add-on isn't super useful, I won't miss it
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10:47:42 <flo> right, https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/attachment.cgi?id=1098
10:48:41 <flo> so I think the biggest remaining task is to finish the release notes
10:49:00 <clokep> (And possibly the changes to change Developer to WIki or whatever that other bug is.)
10:49:13 <flo> already listed in the pad
10:52:30 <clokep> :)
10:52:46 <clokep> I'll read over the releases notes again once I'm at work.
10:52:57 * clokep is going to close bug 1503 then.
10:53:01 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1503 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Update add-ons on AIO for Instantbird 1.2
10:53:16 <flo> are you taking care of colorize ?
10:53:36 <clokep> Ah, yeah. I'll do that.
10:53:42 <flo> or is it waiting post 1.2-release to find someone liking it enough to take care of it? :)
10:53:44 <clokep> I just can't right now
10:55:20 <flo> no rush :)
10:58:44 <flo> clokep: I would like Sort by Status to be compatible with 1.3a1pre too
10:59:17 <clokep> flo: I'm going to bump all my add-ons.
10:59:25 <clokep> (I use them, I  know they work. :))
10:59:32 <flo> and I think some of your users will complain if Vertical Tab is disabled as incompatible :)
11:03:51 <flo> the windows build is linking xul.dll
11:03:54 <clokep> deOmega? :P
11:04:46 * clokep will be back!
11:04:53 <flo> clokep: I think he would gracefully inform you about it first before complaining a few days later ;)
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11:48:05 <flo> the l10n repackaging is failing on the windows builds :(
11:48:08 <flo> ("/bin/sh: compare-locales: command not found")
11:52:38 <instant-buildbot> build #6 of win32-release-1.2 is complete: Failure [failed shell_3]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-release-1.2/builds/6
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12:16:38 * flo has restarted on 1.2fr Mac rc1
12:16:57 <flo> it's still being uploaded, but the dmg files are already all there
12:24:37 <clokep_work> Those release notes need a lot of work still I think... :-/
12:26:15 <flo> I agree
12:29:21 <clokep_work> All the info is there, but it's not exciting at all.
12:29:35 <flo> so for the windows failure, we have 2 options: 1. Wait for Even to go home after work, and install compare-locales on the damn Windows VM. 2. hack client.py to check-out the compare locales repository, and change the paths in the build system.
12:29:50 <flo> or 3. put a fixed compare-locales version directly in our tree
12:31:08 <clokep_work> "fixed"?
12:31:36 <flo> 1. Seems the best option for 1.2, as I would prefer to avoid adding more changesets in the 1.2 branch if we can avoid it (it's better to have the builds of all 3 OSes built off the same changeset and I really don't want to respin Mac if I don't really have to)
12:31:52 <flo> clokep_work: "fixed" as in "not moving"/not automatically updated
12:32:14 <clokep_work> Ah, OK. I thought you meant "fixed" as in "hacked".
12:32:17 <clokep_work> I'd prefer 1 too, I think.
12:32:47 <flo> I think 2. is the best technical solution
12:33:03 <flo> but if we want to move into comm-central soon, it won't be an option there anyway
12:33:19 <flo> 3. sucks but would "just work for now"
12:33:59 <flo> clokep_work: the problem of 1 is we won't have a build before at least 10 hours from now :-/
12:35:05 <clokep_work> Yeah. :-/
12:35:16 <clokep_work> Those VMs don't have remote desktop set up? :P
12:36:28 <flo> they do
12:36:49 <flo> but Even's modem was changed last week and no port is opened yet :(
12:38:06 <clokep_work> Boo. :(
12:38:08 <clokep_work> Perfect storm.
12:40:40 <clokep_work> flo: I'm working on final release notes in https://etherpad.mozilla.org/ib1-2-releasenotes
12:41:25 <flo> context messages were already visible on Bubbles in 1.1, weren't they?
12:41:41 <clokep_work> I'm not sure...
12:41:45 <clokep_work> Oh, maybe they were.
12:42:19 <flo> I think aleth's patch for it in other default themes barely missed the release
12:42:49 <clokep_work> Yeah, probably.
12:42:54 <clokep_work> Is this style sound better though?
12:42:56 <clokep_work> *Does
12:43:15 <flo> yes
12:43:18 <flo> Bonjour is also significant
12:43:31 <flo> libqq is a detail (for an "under the hood" section?)
12:44:06 <clokep_work> Yup.
12:44:21 <clokep_work> The IRC and XMPP changes are "under the hood" too.
12:48:54 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com cleared the Resolution 'INVALID' from bug 1613.
12:48:56 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1613 nor, --, ---, nobody, REOP, Twitter feed stops
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12:52:46 * clokep_work needs to go to some meetings...
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12:57:18 * flo wonders if Mic has rechecked bug 1061 recently
12:57:22 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1061 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Unsharp MUC icon in infobar on conversation top (height is 1px too large)
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13:23:35 <flo> we found a way to make buildbot download compare-locales on the windows slave, and restarted the build :).
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14:05:19 <clokep_work> flo: Awesome! :)
14:16:27 <Even1> it was easy, we just added a step in buildbot ;)
14:22:23 <clokep_work> :)
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14:34:12 <wnayes> Good morning :). Had my appendix out Friday evening, so I might have to pace myself a bit more this week. Thankfully programming does not involve intense exercise :).
14:40:33 <clokep_work> wnayes: Good morning, I hope you're doing OK!
14:40:49 <clokep_work> Sounds like it was an unexpected surgery.
14:42:58 <wnayes> Yeah, I might have been having chronic issues with it but Friday was definitely the worst. It didn't rupture so I should only be getting better from this point out.
14:49:23 <clokep_work> Excellent! :)
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16:17:13 <flo> the windows RC will be ready for testing soon
16:18:41 <flo> 2 files left to upload :)
16:19:08 <flo> last one :)
16:19:55 <instant-buildbot> build #7 of win32-release-1.2 is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-release-1.2/builds/7
16:20:22 <flo> happy testing: http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/releases/1.2-candidates/2012-08-06-15-instantbird/ \o/
16:23:10 <flo> I think we should email links to the rc folders asap to the contact mailing list and to the translators mailing list, but I would like someone to test it quickly first on Windows :)
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16:30:59 * clokep_work is testing..
16:31:19 <clokep_work> Well...downloading.
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16:34:37 <clokep_work> Hmm...it has the actual upgrade menu, nice.
16:34:41 <clokep_work> flo: Seems to be working OK.
16:34:53 <flo> upgrade menu?
16:35:05 <clokep_work> Upgrade dialog thing that goes through whether to keep add-ons enabled.
16:35:20 <flo> oh yes, I was surprised by it too :)
16:35:35 * clokep_work isn't going to be able to find his Instantbird icon at all today...
16:35:38 <flo> and disabled some old cruft from my default profile :)
16:36:05 <flo> uh, 128m22.096s to build my debug Tb today.
16:36:12 <flo> I wonder if I can blame WebRTC for that
16:37:51 <clokep_work> Probably. :-/
16:42:33 <clokep_work> FYI We need to write an announcement post too...
16:43:44 <flo> yeah, I know that
16:43:58 <flo> I also need to create a source tarball, edit the update script, push builds to mirrors, ...
16:44:19 * flo would like to volunteer someone to write the email for the mailing lists :)
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16:48:55 <flo> the lovely thing about updating Mozilla is that we have lots of new warnings to fix :)
16:49:10 <flo> "mail/components/im/all-im.js: WARNING: no preprocessor directives found" is nice :)
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16:58:09 <flo> Firefox has great performances today: CC: 10s GC4.4s
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17:07:49 <clokep_work> flo: I can write the mailing list emails.
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17:12:54 <flo> random thought for wnayes: when landing the import wizard, we may want it to have a hidden about:config pref so that we can disable it easily without having to back it out if something goes wrong, or if some new behaviors of the chat/ code aren't wanted for Thunderbird.
17:15:41 <wnayes> flo: That's a good idea, I would like to focus on finishing touches for the UI this week.
17:18:39 <flo> wnayes: I'll be quite busy until we release 1.2 (I hope it will be tomorrow, but it may be wednesday instead), and I'll be offline (likely still reading emails from my phone) from August 11 to at least 16 (and at most 19).
17:19:42 <flo> so I suggest you ping me until I answer all the UI/design/technical questions you may have between the time when the 1.2 release will actually be out the door, and Friday :).
17:20:03 <flo> I mean, for anything that could be blocking you next week :)
17:20:07 <flo> or anything that seems unclear
17:22:13 <flo> wnayes: another random thought: do we need to import contacts for the protocols that don't store the contact list on the server? I'm mostly thinking about IRC right now :).
17:22:40 <flo> importing contacts from Pidgin is easy. I don't know if mIRC has a notion of contacts.
17:23:29 <clokep_work> Most IRC programs don't IIRC.
17:24:07 <wnayes> I haven't seen anything related to contacts so far, at least for mIRC
17:24:14 * flo finds most IRC clients completely unusable
17:25:41 <clokep_work> Yup!
17:25:56 <clokep_work> So wnayes, you're going to go back to school and tell all your friends to use Instantbird, right? :P
17:26:29 <flo> clokep_work: if it's an engineering school, it won't be just to "use", but to "hack", create add-ons, ... ;)
17:26:30 <wnayes> clokep_work: I think I've converted at least one person so far :)
17:27:49 <flo> clokep_work: "mIRC [...] has a clean, practical interface that is highly configurable and supports features such as buddy lists, [...], message logging, and more. " http://www.mirc.co.uk/about.html
17:29:19 <clokep_work> flo: Ah, I probably couldn't find it in the interface then, since it's littered with options.
17:29:21 <clokep_work> wnayes: Excellent! :)
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17:30:56 <flo> ah, rebuilding my tb after a one line change took "only" 33 minutes this time
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17:38:26 <clokep_work> That's awfully painful, did you ever track down your laptop?
17:38:43 <flo> yeah
17:38:49 <flo> they gave it to someone else
17:39:02 <flo> who then received his own, and returned it to the London office
17:39:25 <flo> they are putting a new one on order today :-|
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17:45:04 <flo> this time it will ship directly to my home address, so it's less likely to be given to someone else
17:45:18 <flo> but it may arrive while I'll be away from home; in vacations :-D
17:46:05 <barlas> flo: Weren't you away on vacation just a few weeks ago? :)
17:46:25 <flo> barlas: yes, why?
17:47:07 <barlas> Was just curious if you talking about another vacation or the same one
17:47:11 * barlas wants vacations too
17:47:17 <flo> barlas: another
17:47:25 <clokep_work> I'll be on vacation this weeken.d
17:47:28 <barlas> Good for you :)
17:47:33 <flo> barlas: I was away just one week, the first week of July.
17:47:57 <flo> barlas: and I'll be in vacations for a short week (I may be back only Friday) next week.
17:48:26 <barlas> flo: Vacations are good
17:48:45 <flo> barlas: I don't think 2 weeks during the summer is excessive ;)
17:49:25 <barlas> No, it isn't.
17:49:43 <barlas> I miss my student days, when we used to get three month of summer vacations.
17:49:56 <clokep_work> Yes. :)
17:50:10 <clokep_work> wnayes: My advice, stay in academia as long as possible. ;)
17:51:11 <wnayes> clokep_work: I have at least 3 more years :)
17:52:06 <flo> clokep_work: I think you need to not have these long vacations for a few years before being able to appreciate how good they were though ;)
17:52:26 <clokep_work> flo: This is my second year! :P
17:55:22 <clokep_work> wnayes: Ah, you're a freshman? Nice. :)
17:55:45 <flo> oh, summer of code next year? :)
17:57:44 <wnayes> There's a lot of nice things about GSoC (staying with parents means no rent/driving etc.) and I've learned a lot of practical things this summer. I'll probably have a better idea of what I'm doing after next semester.
17:59:59 <clokep_work> :) Yeah, paying rent during internships always put quite a damper on making money over the summers...:-/
18:00:22 <clokep_work> I'm glad you've enjoyed GSoC though! :) And now you have lots of fancy skills to show off next year. ;0
18:01:02 * flo thinks SoC isn't over yet!
18:01:17 <flo> wnayes: and you probably don't have your tshirt yet ;)
18:01:44 <wnayes> Not yet :)
18:01:51 <flo> clokep_work: I would like to try and finish the website changes tonight
18:02:00 <flo> what about releasing in about 24 hours?
18:02:06 <clokep_work> flo: OK, what else is to be done?
18:02:26 <flo> so translators who are really interested would have a few hours to localize the new  strings of the website
18:03:03 <flo> clokep_work: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/ib-1-2-todo ;)
18:03:20 <flo> clokep_work: are you doing the mailing list email soon?
18:03:55 <clokep_work> flo: Hopefully. Doing work I get paid to do right now.
18:04:00 <clokep_work> In the next half hour?
18:04:26 <flo> Just need to give the 2 download links, and say we expect to release in a little less than a day so we encourage them to test as soon as possible, and report critical issues immediately if any.
18:04:32 <flo> clokep_work: ok cool.
18:05:18 <flo> clokep_work: "Doing work I get paid to do right now." something I haven't really managed to do today. I wanted to do some checkins, bug the tb tree is burning, then I wanted to test a patch on which I need to give feedback, but had to update my build for that, and my build broke and had to be rebuilt from scratch.
18:05:51 <clokep_work> flo: I've been putting out fires all day too (mixed with interviewing  someone.)
18:05:51 <flo> and then my build was freezing every second for a few minutes because of ObjC exceptions and the debug build trying to create stack traces for each of them, I had to rebuild again to disable that
18:05:55 <flo> and it's time to go home already :(
18:06:31 <flo> oh, and learning about the current situation of my laptop and the next steps to get one :-D
18:07:45 <flo> anyway, I'll go home, eat something, and do some plumbering again (trying to finally plug the leaks of that shower) and then try to work on the website :)
18:07:48 <flo> back later
18:07:49 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
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18:23:58 <clokep_work> Anyone want to read this email before I send it?
18:32:36 <barlas> clokep_work: Sure
18:33:06 <-- meh has quit (Ping timeout)
18:34:25 <clokep_work> barlas: (or anyone else) http://pastebin.instantbird.com/59334
18:36:01 <barlas> Hmm... I wanted to work on some issues before this release :(
18:36:07 <csimi> yay RC
18:36:10 <csimi> time to upgrade
18:36:28 <clokep_work> barlas: There's always next release. :)
18:36:28 <barlas> Would me nightly update itself to RC?
18:36:36 <clokep_work> Sorry, but I don't remember you, have you been around before?
18:36:38 <clokep_work> No.
18:36:49 <barlas> *my
18:36:53 <clokep_work> But we'd really appreciate if you update to the RC for today and try your "usual" stuff in it! :)
18:36:55 <barlas> clokep_work: Just a couple of times.
18:37:24 <wnayes> clokep_work: There's a small type line 11 (there needs to be a "with" after "launch it") but otherwise looks good!
18:38:38 <barlas> uk.win is uk english?
18:40:11 <barlas> No, it isn't
18:40:43 <barlas> I don't have to remove the old version, right?
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18:41:40 <aleth> wnayes: Did you see the addition to the log file format in http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/70243c558e3b ?
18:41:59 <clokep_work> barlas: UK is Ukrainian.
18:42:09 <clokep_work> en-UK would be British English, but we don't have that.
18:42:10 <aleth> (just a heads-up as the bug title wouldn't make it obvious...)
18:42:12 <clokep_work> Thanks wnayes.
18:42:26 <csimi> Aaaand on to edit install.rdfs. I've really been spoiled by the new Firefox development process.
18:43:02 * clokep_work needs to bump his add-ons.
18:43:24 <wnayes> aleth: I hadn't, thanks. I think it will merge without issue though.
18:43:41 <aleth> wnayes: Sure, it's just an additional flag you have to set.
18:43:46 <aleth> What do we do with the auto-converted add-ons? Do they get bumped automatically?
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18:44:13 <barlas> Sort by Status and Ambiance are no longer compatible
18:44:52 <aleth> barlas: They probably still work, but nobody has updated the compatibility information yet
18:45:00 <csimi> Sort by status and vertical tabs both work with an edited install.rdf
18:45:49 <barlas> And how to edit install.rdf?
18:46:16 <barlas> Also, did the icon change, or the one I am used to was only for nightlies?
18:46:51 <aleth> barlas: The .xpi file is a ZIP file, you will find install.rdf inside
18:47:01 <aleth> The nightly has a different icon, yes
18:47:02 <barlas> aleth: I thought so, because yesterday's nightly still work with them :)
18:47:33 <barlas> Oh, you mean extension's install.rdf, I thought you meant instantbird's some installation file
18:47:45 <aleth> No, every extension has one.
18:47:52 <barlas> Ok
18:48:07 <aleth> Obviously some extensions become obsolete... Tab complete for example
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18:49:19 <barlas> Sort by status is by clokep_work
18:49:32 * barlas pokes clokep_work to update the compatibility info
18:49:33 <barlas> :)
18:50:29 <barlas> Other than messaging themes, I am only using 'Sort by Status' and 'Status Reminder'
18:51:07 <-- sonny has quit (Ping timeout)
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18:52:03 <clokep_work> barlas: Yes, it's on my TODO list. csimi Vertical Tabs is also mine. It'll be bumped shortly.
18:55:52 <aleth> Anything here that's not on the todo list? https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:release_process
18:56:04 <clokep_work> OK. I bumped Vertical Tabs, LJ Talk and Sort by Status.
18:56:47 <aleth> Though it looks possibly a little out of date ("upload to google code"?)
18:57:44 <csimi> Can I give you guys a friendly advice for 1.3?
18:58:02 <aleth> Sure...
18:58:22 <csimi> As long as there's no file transfer feature I won't be able to get my friends to switch over. It's kinda important for people who can't run an HTTP server.
18:58:43 <aleth> csimi: Would you like to work on that? We have some ideas...
18:58:46 <csimi> Please don't take this as a feature request whining. Your client is perfect for me.
18:59:21 <clokep_work> aleth: No, we server downloads from Google Code.
18:59:40 <csimi> I'm not sure if I'm ready for working on a big project like this, especially since I can't C.
18:59:51 <clokep_work> csimi: The bigger issue is that file transfer doesn't work over most protocols, so we want to ensure we have a good UX around it.
19:00:06 <clokep_work> Most of our code is JavaScript. ;) Although it's C/C++ code to interact w/ libpurple.
19:00:14 <clokep_work> And it's not like we have deadlines for things. :)
19:01:53 <aleth> clokep_work: Really, why? I thought everything was on hg.instantbird...
19:02:11 <csimi> I guess I could hg your code to check what kind of code standards you guys have.
19:02:13 <clokep_work> aleth: Only source is on there, we use it to server FILES, not code.
19:02:20 <csimi> I'm not really confident about my hackish JS.
19:02:34 <clokep_work> csimi: That's why we review code! (Plus it's how you become a better programmer.)
19:02:36 <aleth> clokep_work: Ah, I see. Thanks
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19:02:53 <clokep_work> aleth: See http://code.google.com/p/instantbird/.
19:02:59 <flo> clokep_work: has your email been sent to the l10n mailing list? I was surprised to see that address in the "reply to" field :_S
19:03:04 <clokep_work> (Specificaly http://code.google.com/p/instantbird/downloads/list)
19:03:07 <flo> clokep_work: you mean en-GB, not en-UK
19:03:10 <clokep_work> flo: Yes, it was bcced.
19:03:20 <flo> barlas: Instantbird isn't localized to en-GB (yet!)
19:03:23 <flo> clokep_work: cool :)
19:03:28 <flo> just wanted to double check
19:03:41 <clokep_work> I wasn't sure if that address is publicly available / how emails are blocked on it, etc. So I decided to BCC it.
19:03:44 <clokep_work> Safer. :)
19:03:47 <-- sonny has quit (Ping timeout)
19:03:49 <flo> (the shower seems fixed. And I'm very hungry now :))
19:03:49 <barlas> flo: No problem.
19:04:17 <flo> clokep_work: well, if the address is in reply to, it's now become public anyway ;)
19:04:17 <aleth> csimi: There is also help available ;)
19:06:01 <clokep_work> flo: :( Maybe you received it from instantbird-l10n and that's why it's in the reply to?
19:06:22 <flo> clokep_work: ah, it's quite possible!
19:06:27 <aleth> flo: A working shower is a good end to a frustrating day :)
19:06:44 <flo> aleth: do you still have question about our usage of google code?
19:07:16 <aleth> flo: No, I don't think so. It just wasn't clear from the wiki...
19:07:20 <flo> aleth: the reasons are: 1. If we get "slashdotted", our server with a 100MBps bandwidth is clearly not enough to server the downloads.
19:07:54 <flo> 2. Google has a geographically distributed network of mirrors, which means everybody can download the latest release at a sane speed
19:08:20 <flo> from our own servers, people in France download at the top speed of their connection, and people on other continents cry
19:08:52 <flo> we had some whining of people in some countries who downloaded at very low (< 5kBps) speeds from our servers
19:08:53 <aleth> yes, makes sense :)
19:08:55 <aleth> Hmm, how does the website stand up? Is there a static version?
19:09:17 <aleth> Or is there not /that much demand...
19:09:19 <clokep_work> We had some big problems during 1.1 (or was it 1.0?).
19:09:24 <flo> aleth: the website doesn't use any database, just a very simple PHP code to replace localizable strings
19:09:42 <flo> aleth: the website that really causes problems on the server under heavy load is AIO
19:12:00 <flo> we moved it to a better separate server after having had to keep it (AIO) down for 3 days immediately after 1.0 release (actually, after being featured on lifehacker)
19:12:39 <flo> the communication around 1.1 was almost inexistant, nobody heard about it, except people already following us.
19:12:44 <aleth> I guess everybody heads straight there after installing IB for the first time...
19:13:09 <flo> aleth: and that website is really really poorly coded ;)
19:13:26 <flo> the code is at least as messed up as the UI
19:14:17 <aleth> No chance of an AIO-AMO merge I guess :-/
19:16:57 <-- flo has quit (Ping timeout)
19:17:19 <wnayes> Here's some thoughts I wrote up about the import wizard UI as it currently stands: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/importwizard-ui-status
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19:23:05 <flo> aleth: well, I would like us to stop hosting AIO because it's really a pointless furstrating distraction
19:23:29 <flo> aleth: but there's still a lot of social engineering to do before we can host Ib addons on AMO ;)
19:23:57 <aleth> Fingers crossed then ;)
19:24:49 <flo> aleth: I think we should try on easier targets first ;)
19:24:57 <flo> BIO/BMO would be a great first step
19:25:07 <aleth> reverse alphabetic order ;)
19:27:15 <barlas> What's AIO, AMO, BIO and BMO?
19:28:08 <clokep_work> addons.instantbird.org, addons.mozilla.org, bugzilla.instantbird.org, bugzilla.mozilla.org
19:28:12 <clokep_work> respectively. :)
19:31:43 <clokep_work> And those are the easiest abbreviations...:sigh:
19:31:55 * clokep_work should really fix that smiley code...
19:32:01 <clokep_work> barlas: What were you hoping to fix for Instantbird?
19:32:52 <barlas> clokep_work: I was going to try my had at https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=631
19:33:00 <barlas> (Filtering buddy list)
19:33:01 <instantbot> Bug 631 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Filtering buddy list
19:33:22 <barlas> I discussed it here, but have been uber busy since then :)
19:34:30 <clokep_work> Ah, that would be nice. :)
19:34:33 <barlas> My freelance project was supposed to finish a month ago, but it has been extended and should finish in couple of weeks.
19:34:41 <flo> oh, that's a great one to begin with: not very difficult, and quite visible
19:34:52 <clokep_work> Well there's always another release, so don't be disheartened!
19:34:59 <clokep_work> And hopefully the next release will be sooner, rather than later.
19:35:38 <aleth> There was a longer gap than maybe usual between 1.1 and 1.2 because of significant changes under the hood.
19:35:45 <barlas> That's nice, I quite like Instanbird :)
19:36:56 <barlas> If my sentences don't make complete sense, it might be because I have been up for a long time and am very sleepy right now :)
19:37:20 <clokep_work> aleth: Twas shorter than 1.0 -> 1.1 IIRC.
19:37:23 * clokep_work goes to check the timeline.
19:37:47 <clokep_work> Ah no. I totally lied.
19:37:50 <clokep_work> We release 1.1 really quickly.
19:50:43 <flo> clokep_work: in 3 months?
19:51:15 <flo> I think every 3 months it's the schedule we should try to converge to
19:51:23 <flo> but 1.1->1.2 10 months, uh... :-/
19:54:03 <aleth> Could call it 2.0 if only the most significant changes weren't invisible to the user ;)
19:54:48 <aleth> well, almost invisible...
19:55:03 <aleth> IRC is much better already.
19:56:26 <clokep_work> Yes, 3 months is a good one.
19:56:37 <clokep_work> aleth: I was just thinking that while walking...
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19:57:13 <flo> clokep_work: thinking that it should be 2.0?
19:57:26 <aleth> I suspect in terms of lines of code changed it would be justified...
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19:57:54 <flo> ah, I also need to create the changelog
19:59:35 <flo> bah, I typed hg diff -r 1.1:1.2 |diffstat to see how much code has changed, but there are lots of changes in libpurple files, so it's not giving a meaningful result :-/
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20:00:22 <flo> whole repository: 656 files changed, 28398 insertions(+), 23910 deletions(-)
20:00:22 <flo> libpurple only:  81 files changed, 9201 insertions(+), 5831 deletions(-)
20:00:41 <flo> chat/ only:  148 files changed, 11833 insertions(+), 2043 deletions(-)
20:01:01 <flo> instantbird/ only:  421 files changed, 3269 insertions(+), 11033 deletions(-)
20:02:05 <flo> bah, the big reorganization also messes counts up when looking at only a specific folder
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20:12:28 <clokep_work> You should be able to ignore purple/. :)
20:14:41 <clokep_work> flo: I had actually thought 1.5. :-D
20:14:57 <clokep_work> But it's all arbitrary.
20:17:11 <aleth> Instantbird NT ;)
20:19:40 <clokep_work> Arg.
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20:27:11 * clokep_work wants to release and start talking about Instantbird 1.3. :P
20:29:10 * flo wants to release and go in vacations with the AMI
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20:29:47 <flo> clokep_work: you know you are going to do the release announcement, right? Our blog is no longer on planet, but yours is :)
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20:30:07 <aleth> neat :D
20:30:19 <clokep_work> flo: Ah, yeah...I can do a quick blurb about it. :)
20:30:24 <clokep_work> I should really do some other updates on it too.
20:30:28 * clokep_work has been lazy. :-[
20:30:43 <flo> it's always like that with blogs :)
20:31:10 <flo> clokep_work: I'm still trying to find something exciting to say about 1.2 so that it can get some attention, but I don't see anything :-/
20:31:51 <clokep_work> flo: There's lots of excitingness, just no "killer feature".
20:32:10 <aleth> Now with 1% extra code FREE! ;)
20:32:20 <flo> maybe the best thing to mention would be to say that we are getting close to the Tb team, and explain why Instantbird is better than Instantbird, and why Instantbird is better than Thunderbird
20:32:41 <flo> ie why both completement each other, and the coming soon release of Tb 15 with IM isn't the end of Instantbird at all.
20:33:03 <flo> "why Instantbird is better than Instantbird" the first Ib in that sentence was supposed to be Tb
20:34:01 <flo> after all, getting close to Tb is the real reason why it has taken us so long to bring the code back into a shippable state.
20:34:07 <aleth> "the coming soon release of Tb 15 with IM isn't the end of Instantbird at all." <- actually that might be quite important to point out, and that they have different use cases etc
20:34:44 <flo> we could mention that we now own some real Mozilla modules
20:34:44 <clokep_work> Yes, that does sound good.
20:34:52 <clokep_work> Did anyone have a chance to finish the release notes? I've been very busy today...
20:35:09 <aleth> clokep_work: I moved a few things around, but they still need work :-/
20:38:02 <clokep_work> Thanks aleth.
20:38:10 <clokep_work> I'm going to spend a few minutes looking at it before I leave.
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20:40:48 <clokep_work> "These styles now also respect the font setting from Preferences->Content." Is that actually an important change?
20:41:21 <flo> we could even talk about the new governance model of Tb, saying that these days they are very welcoming of comunity contributions, blah blah blah
20:42:14 <aleth> flo: To explain it properly, wouldn't that almost be another blog post?
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20:42:58 <flo> aleth: I'm afraid there's nothing to explain at this point though
20:43:03 <flo> we don't know what's going to happen
20:43:19 * aleth is totally unclear on how the TB changes will work in practice
20:43:24 <flo> we can pretend that we know if we want to raise attention, but we can't say too much :-D
20:43:30 <flo> aleth: nobody knows
20:43:33 <aleth> ah.
20:44:05 <flo> aleth: well, at least *I* don't know
20:44:18 <flo> it's possible j b and Standard8 almost know
20:44:33 <flo> but I think most of it remains to be discussed, and the MozCamp is seen as the best opportunity to do that
20:44:53 <aleth> Hopefully they will ask for some input too ;)
20:44:57 <aleth> Right.
20:45:01 <aleth> For the release notes, explaining the relationship with TB is probably enough though
20:45:44 <clokep_work> aleth: Do you mean the "release post"?
20:45:50 <flo> aleth: not for the release note. For the blog post!
20:46:04 <aleth> Yes, sorry.
20:46:50 <clokep_work> Just making sure! :)
20:46:50 <flo> well, the relationship itself isn't interesting. What's interesting is showing there's progress, and showing there's potential for even more! :)
20:47:59 <aleth> well, "IB is alive!" and "parts of IB are now also in TB!" are interesting :)
20:49:25 * clokep_work finds it a little weird that no message is returned when IMing someone who is away on IRC> :-/
20:50:03 <aleth> It's because you should see the away message in the status already...
20:50:23 <flo> aleth: it may not be a contact though ;)
20:50:32 <aleth> flo: That's a bug ;)
20:50:49 <aleth> Printing an explicit away message is something that "all other clients do" ;)
20:51:04 <clokep_work> aleth: Yes, I know that. But I still expect it to happen the first time, i feel like...
20:51:10 <clokep_work> Maybe I'm just used to Pidgin being dumb though. :-D
20:51:12 <aleth> anyway, gtg
20:51:17 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Au revoir)
20:51:25 <flo> clokep_work: pidgin displayed it each time, not the first time
20:51:37 <flo> I think displaying it the first time is the expected behavior
20:51:54 <clokep_work> flo: Right, I meant displaying it at all.
20:54:15 * clokep_work wonders if that's filed as a bug...
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20:59:27 <clokep_work> Anyway, I need to get going. If the notes aren't finished up by the time I get home I can probably finish them + make the website patch.
21:02:21 <flo> clokep_work: cool, thanks.
21:02:26 <flo> I'll try to work on them a bit
21:02:32 <clokep_work> Thanks. :)
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22:15:44 <flo> etherpad is in a " Reestablishing connection... " loop, and I'm too tired to phrase anything correctly, so I'm afraid I won't be able to help with the release notes this evening :-/.
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