#instantbird log on 07 14 2012

All times are UTC.

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00:24:30 <flo> Good night
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02:59:15 <instant-buildbot> build #556 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/556
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06:12:04 <instant-buildbot> build #549 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/549
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10:04:58 <Mic> Hello.
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13:41:35 <aleth> Those Windows Metro screenshots really do look like they want to live on a tablet, not a desktop...
13:43:39 <aleth> http://www.liveside.net/2011/09/24/a-closer-look-at-windows-live-metro-style-apps-on-windows-8-people-messaging-and-call/
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13:49:04 <clokep> aleth: It's optimized for a tablet, with a fallback to the current desktop.
13:51:00 <aleth> clokep: You mean desktop users will get to use the 'old' messenger? I guess it makes sense - I can't imagine running Metro Messenger on a large screen... at least I never fullscreen my IB conversations ;)
13:51:10 * flo is doing checkins
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13:53:31 <clokep> aleth: I mean, in general, the Metro UI really seems geared for tablets.
13:54:51 <aleth> Yes... not that that's just a Windows thing unfortunately. I just wonder what desktop users will end up doing...
13:55:18 <flo> aleth: using a terminal? :)
13:55:53 <aleth> Radical Fullscreen Putty for everyone! :)
13:56:40 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 1740 on bug 465.
13:56:42 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=465 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Unread status doesn't disappear when the tabbar-tab (instead of the content of the tab) had the focu
14:00:26 <clokep> Yeah, well I was discussing this yesterday with my friend. Unfortunately people who create content (e.g. us) use computers very differently than those who consume content...a tablet might make more sense for them.
14:00:31 <flo> we forgot to resolve bug 483 and bug 1542 after my previous push
14:00:35 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=483 min, --, ---, bugi, ASSI, Instantbird default theme has no preview image
14:00:36 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1542 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Use pkg-config instead of hard coded paths
14:00:38 * flo was about to check-in 483 again
14:01:04 <aleth> clokep: Yes, I agree a lot of current desktop users will probably simply switch to tablets in the next few years
14:01:25 <flo> clokep: right, I think tablets are nice for consuming contents, but unsuitable for people who spend more time editing/creating
14:01:31 <aleth> However, Windows is big in offices... not sure about those users switching to tablets.
14:01:51 <flo> aleth: maybe they could use ubuntu instead? ;)
14:01:57 <aleth> lol
14:03:16 <aleth> They probably could at that ;) Unity is actually less tabletty than I thought these days with the keyboard-optimized HUD
14:03:47 <flo> hmm, I wonder if I should try bug 859 before pushing the patch
14:03:50 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=859 min, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Add context menu to 'conv-top'
14:05:26 <flo> do we have a bug on file to remove id= awful attributes in tabbrowser.xml?
14:05:41 <flo> I don't think I ever filed it because it's boring :-[
14:06:59 <aleth> I don't think there's a bug for it, but I guess there should be ;) in case someone is ever that bored...
14:07:16 <flo> yeah, the context menu should be in instantbird.xul, not in the XBL binding...
14:07:53 <flo> and using in conversation.xml an id that's defined in tabbrowser.xml should be a reason for r-, but that would be unfair given the code in the context ;)
14:08:06 <aleth> yes ;)
14:08:24 <aleth> lots of parentNode.parentNode.parentNode prettiness in tabbrowser too...
14:08:46 <flo> tabbrowser.xml contains lots of ugly code inherited from Firefox ;)
14:08:58 <aleth> aha! is that where it came from?
14:09:05 <flo> yes
14:09:16 <flo> I cleaned up a lot of the mess
14:09:26 <flo> when it was obvious that some hacks were pointless for Instantbird
14:09:46 <flo> cleaning up Firefox's tabbrowser.xml to make it suitable for us took me a week...
14:10:10 <aleth> must have taken quite some disentangling!
14:11:08 <flo> unfortunately the Firefox code has changed so much when Dao made the tabbar a regular toolbar that it wouldn't be possible to merge in the improvements/clean ups made in Firefox in the last few years :(
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14:14:40 <flo> aleth: shouldn't the "Close Tab" and "Close other tab" items be hidden when the context menu is opened on the conv-top-info ?
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14:15:19 <aleth> flo: I think it's actually more confusing that way, if the context menu changes for no apparent reason because you clicked a few pixels lower down
14:15:32 <flo> I think if really asked what I think I would "ui-r"- that patch, but I'm willing to shut up for now, as I think it's still a net improvement compared to what we have now :)
14:15:44 <aleth> I wasn't sure either fwiw\
14:15:52 <flo> aleth: I'm clicking very far away from the tab bar ;)
14:16:03 <flo> bottom right corner of the conv-top-info toolbar ;)
14:16:24 <aleth> It's the best I have come up with so far...
14:16:30 <aleth> I had considered some "hot zone" under the tab
14:16:33 <flo> and it's not clear why there's no context menu on the target selector
14:17:22 <flo> I think in the future we will want to enhance that conversation context menu
14:17:33 <flo> the content of the target selector could probably be in a submenu
14:17:49 <aleth> Right, one could maybe add that
14:17:53 <flo> adding the contact to the list could be useful, adding/removing a channel from auto-join
14:18:05 <aleth> Kill autojoins! ;)
14:18:10 <flo> maybe add a "search" or "find" item, to finally make the findbar discoverable
14:18:21 <aleth> There's a patch in the queue for adding a buddy
14:18:24 <flo> maybe even zoom
14:18:29 <flo> the feature is currently completely hidden
14:19:12 <aleth> Search is a good idea I think, also the target selector thing, then I would enable the context menu on the target selector too.
14:19:49 <flo> maybe on the whole conversation?
14:20:10 <aleth> Hmm
14:20:21 <flo> would it make sense to use the same context menu for the content area, the conv-top-info toolbar, and the tabbar?
14:20:38 <aleth> It would get a bit long with the extra selection entries maybe
14:20:39 <aleth> ?
14:21:34 <flo> something I've never been able to decide is if it's a good idea or not to show the keybindings there
14:21:54 <flo> it's 'odd' for a context menu, but it would be nice to have at least some way to discover them
14:23:01 <aleth> It might make sense for the browser actually, as long as there aren't too many
14:23:36 <aleth> What do we have - ESC would be in the tab context menu. Show logs also. So for the browser it's only Alt-PgUp/Dn?
14:23:49 <flo> it would be nice for "close tab" "put conversaiton on hold" "find", zoom
14:23:57 <flo> right, show logs too
14:24:18 <aleth> Zoom is pretty standard I think. I'd be less worried about including that
14:24:34 <aleth> or don't you think people are used to it from FF by now?
14:24:56 <flo> if we start including some, shouldn't we include them all to avoid implying that those not listed aren't supported?
14:25:09 <aleth> How long would the list get?
14:25:35 <aleth> Worth experimenting with I think.
14:26:13 <aleth> It would be nice for the shortcuts to be discoverable that way.
14:27:57 <aleth> I'll file a bug for that.
14:30:09 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/ccfdb7f280ac - Andreas Nilsson - Bug 768525 - Update the twitter logo, ui-r=bwinton, r=clokep.
14:30:10 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/d24f6643270f - aleth - Bug 465 - Unread status doesn't disappear when the tabbar-tab (instead of the content of the tab) had the focus when the selected tab changed, r=fqueze.
14:30:11 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/0e113cfc6947 - aleth - Bug 859 - Add context menu to 'conv-top', r=clokep.
14:31:40 <aleth> Could you take a look at bug 1450 too so we can have that in the nightlies for a few days?
14:31:47 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1450 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Only remove unread ruler when switching away from a tab if tab has been visible for a certain time
14:31:55 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 859 to FIXED.
14:31:56 <clokep> aleth: Fixing some old bugs! :)
14:32:00 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=859 min, --, 1.2, aletheia2, RESO FIXED, Add context menu to 'conv-top'
14:32:35 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 465 to FIXED.
14:32:38 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=465 nor, --, 1.2, aletheia2, RESO FIXED, Unread status doesn't disappear when the tabbar-tab (instead of the content of the tab) had the focu
14:32:38 <aleth> Less papercuts in a new release hopefully adds some extra polish ;)
14:35:08 <flo> someday we will even have a context menu on the participant list ;)
14:35:41 <aleth> At least in 1.2 you can double-click nicks ;)
14:36:18 <flo> that was a regression?
14:36:32 <aleth> I'm not sure, definitely didn't work in 1.1 though
14:37:08 <aleth> Or was it 1.0
14:37:11 <aleth> I can't remember...
14:37:24 <flo> doesn't really matter :)
14:37:43 <aleth> Yes, when things are fixed you can't imagine them being broken ;)
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14:41:11 <flo> aleth: I just looked at bug 1450
14:41:14 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1450 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Only remove unread ruler when switching away from a tab if tab has been visible for a certain time
14:41:38 <flo> I see nothing wrong with the code
14:42:14 <flo> I'm not sure it's the right behavior, but I've nothing to argue against it, and nothing better to offer, so I guess I'll r+ and check it in
14:42:38 <aleth> I'm not sure it's perfect either... that's why I really wanted it in the nightlies for some feedback
14:43:08 <aleth> It's one thing for me to test in artificial conditions, quite another for everyday conditions, when the aim is to reduce annoyance rather than increas it
14:43:39 <flo> alright
14:45:37 <aleth> It's mainly intended to fix e.g. the "just come back to the computer and switched across to email and oops where has the unread ruler gone" kind of situation
14:45:48 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 1581 on bug 1450.
14:45:52 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1450 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Only remove unread ruler when switching away from a tab if tab has been visible for a certain time
14:46:44 <flo> I lost the unread ruler several times recently
14:47:09 <flo> wondered if the fix I would really expect would be to keep the unread ruler if I haven't scrolled at all and the unread ruler wasn't visible
14:47:49 <flo> hard to know/guess if the not scrolling means "I haven't have time to read the scrollback yet" or "I don't care about the scrollback, I'll only read messages appearing from now on"
14:48:01 <aleth> yes... 
14:48:21 <aleth> (to both the suggestion and the problem with it)
14:48:38 <aleth> it's possible some combination of the two approaches will be needed
14:49:10 <flo> ok, I'll push it soon (already commited locally)
14:49:20 <flo> anything else in my review queue that's blocking you?
14:49:32 <clokep> flo: Any chance you can look at the nickserv patch? I know it's kind of involved.
14:49:36 <clokep> But nickserv annoys me everyday. :-D
14:50:16 <flo> clokep: you got rid of nickserv killer? :)
14:50:24 <aleth> Nothing left is blocking me, but bug 1530 probably should have some time in nightlies also
14:50:27 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1530 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Autoscroll subtly broken after moz13 update
14:50:31 <clokep> flo: Motivation to finish the patch. ;)
14:50:41 <flo> clokep: I guessed that
14:50:52 <aleth> clokep: Heh, extreme dogfooding ;)
14:51:07 <clokep> aleth: More of starving the dog.
14:51:56 <flo> aleth: iirc I wasn't convinced by the patch in bug 1530, but I may be wrong as the last time I looked was a long time ago
14:52:03 <flo> I haven't been annoyed by that bug recently, btw
14:52:20 <aleth> I am annoyed all the time by it, as soon as a conversation gets beyond a certain length
14:52:30 <aleth> So it definitely needs fixing before 1.2
14:53:00 <flo> but it's in the sw:1.2 list already, isn't it?
14:53:01 <flo> so we won't forget :)
14:53:11 <flo> poor dog
14:53:28 <flo> I wonder if there's a funny blog post to do about starving the dog to bring motivation
14:53:36 <aleth> Yes... all I meant was it should have time in nightlies in case it doesn't work as well on other OS for some reason
14:54:56 <aleth> clokep: It could set a trend... "I turned off hide-autojoin to make me write session restore" ;)
14:55:15 <clokep> :)
14:55:20 <flo> aleth: I could turn off show-nick ;)
14:55:23 <clokep> I find it to be a fairly good way to make yourself do something.
14:55:34 <aleth> flo: That would probably be effective :D
14:56:04 <flo> aleth: given how busy I am these days, I think it would just reduce how much scrollbar I take the time to read ;)
14:56:09 <flo> *scroll back
14:56:21 <flo> btw, I haven't read instantbot's logs for the period when I was in vacations
14:56:31 <aleth> It was pretty quiet
14:56:55 <flo> nobody entertaining the bot while there was no checkins? :-S
14:57:00 <aleth> More action on the TB lists I would guess ;)
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14:57:10 <clokep> aleth: Weren't you supposed to feed him!?
14:57:10 <flo> bah... Tb... :(
14:57:21 <clokep> instantbot: botsnack
14:57:22 <instantbot> yay
14:57:23 <clokep> You poor thing.
14:57:36 <flo> clokep: no, the new fashion is to starve dogs and bots ;)
14:57:38 <aleth> I fed him some review requests ;)
14:57:59 <aleth> But I guess that's not as nutritious as mentioning C++
14:59:31 <aleth> C++!
14:59:36 <aleth> hmm
14:59:46 <flo> clokep: still confused with https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/attachment.cgi?id=1709&action=diff
14:59:49 <aleth> instantbot must be sneezing
14:59:52 <instantbot> aleth: Sorry, I've no idea what 'must be sneezing' might be.
15:00:11 * clokep wonders if that's not the most up to date patch...
15:00:11 <flo> aleth: it has just eaten too many snacks, needs some rest ;)
15:00:38 <flo> clokep: haven't you said that the checks for ""Unknown command"" and ""Password incorrect."" aren't needed?
15:01:58 <clokep> flo: So I think that patch was r- and never marked as such so I never uploaded a new one. :(
15:02:14 <clokep> Sorry.
15:02:58 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com cancelled review?(florian@instantbird .org) for attachment 1709 on bug 1477.
15:03:00 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 1741 on bug 1477.
15:03:03 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1477 enh, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Authenticate with NickServ
15:03:53 <clokep> aleth: Feel free to drive by too.
15:09:24 <flo> clokep: looks ok
15:09:52 <flo> codying style nit, why is there a line break before setTimeout?
15:10:11 <flo> it seems we could save a line and reduce the indent on the next 5 lines
15:11:06 <flo> hmm
15:12:08 <flo> clokep: shouldn't |if (this.nickservMessageQueue) { this.nickservMessageQueue.push(aMessage); return true;| be *after* the code that checks for "Password accepted"?
15:13:32 <clokep> flo: I'll look at it again.
15:18:19 <aleth> clokep: What happens if I am already logged in and use /nick to change to a nick registered to someone else? I think it's OK, there will be a 1s pause before the user gets informed (and that's not a problem of course) am I right ?
15:19:01 <clokep> aleth: There is a 1s pause by design, yes.
15:19:03 * clokep is now known as clokep_
15:19:21 <aleth> Yes, sure. I meant that's all the difference the new code makes in that case.
15:20:16 <aleth> It doesn't try to send the password for the default nick, is what I was trying to get at.
15:20:21 <clokep_> Yes.
15:21:28 <aleth> Maybe didNotReceivePassCommand should be renamed?
15:22:19 <clokep_> Sure, you have a better name? :-D
15:23:02 <aleth> something along the lines of "isHandlingQueuedMessages"?
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15:25:24 <clokep_> aleth: OK. :)
15:25:29 <aleth> So, the patch doesn't provide for the case where PASS doesn't work? i.e. We don't send NickServ IDENTIFY in that case?
15:25:49 <clokep_> aleth: No.
15:26:13 <aleth> Does that case occur?
15:26:30 <clokep_> It's certainly possible, yes.
15:26:50 <clokep_> We couldn't come up with a good way to know whether NickServ is truly a service though. :-/
15:27:12 <aleth> Right. :-S
15:28:29 <aleth> There's also the case where NickServ asks for identification because we have switched to our nick (e.g. because initially we clashed and got aleth_ and then try to manually change back)
15:28:55 <aleth> or aleth1... you know what I mean
15:29:21 <clokep_> Yes.
15:29:25 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com cancelled review?(florian@instantbird .org) for attachment 1741 on bug 1477.
15:29:26 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 1742 on bug 1477.
15:29:28 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1477 enh, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Authenticate with NickServ
15:29:36 * clokep_ is now known as clokep
15:30:15 <aleth> Should we assume NickServ is who they say they are if it shows up while logging on already?
15:30:35 * clokep doesn't know.
15:30:37 <aleth> (as opposed to not being there when we login, but then suddenly we get a message from NickServ)
15:30:42 <clokep> I'd rather handle that separately now though.
15:30:52 <aleth> Sure, that can all be a followup
15:30:57 <clokep> (Which means I'm very much not fixing what the bug is titled to do. :-/)
15:31:01 <aleth> (if there is a good solution that is)
15:32:35 <aleth> But I think the distinction might be a useful one if it's reasonably hard to fake (i.e. if it's hard to send a DM when someone is logging on)
15:33:10 <flo> "Should we assume NickServ is who they say they are" the answer is probably "no"
15:34:51 <flo> clokep: would it simplify the code to do: if (this.nickservMessageQueue) { if password accepted { clear the queue } else push to the queue; return true; } ?
15:35:11 <flo> that would remove a |if (this.nickservMessageQueue)| and a |return true|
15:35:47 <flo> the only difference would be that we wouldn't LOG("Successfully authenticated with NickServ."); when the user manually entered his password. (I don't think that matters though)
15:37:13 <clokep> flo: I don't thinkw e can remove that, we push multiple messages into the queue.
15:38:00 <flo> uh?
15:38:36 <clokep> Maybe I'm not understand what you're suggesting.
15:39:07 <clokep> Ah, I see what you're saying.
15:39:11 <clokep> Flipping two of the if statements.
15:39:16 <flo> the code is if (a) { if (b) { c; return true; } } if (b) { d; return true; }. I'm saying we could do instead: if (b) { if (a) c; else d; return true; }
15:40:03 <flo> does that make more sense? :)
15:40:35 <flo> the comment "// This is the first time we've seen this authentication request." doesn't seem very helpful (and I don't really see how it's related to the code after it)
15:41:06 <clokep> Yes.
15:41:31 <clokep> I think that's left over from a more complicated iteration. :)
15:42:05 <flo> yeah, that happens a lot when iterating on patches
15:42:13 <flo> happened to me yesterday with that gloda patch
15:43:16 <aleth> Yes... or some more cumbersome code structure which is no longer needed...
15:47:44 * clokep is now known as clokep_
15:48:31 <clokep_> OK. I've made those changes. :)
15:49:00 <aleth> The NickServKillerKiller patch ;)
15:53:57 <clokep_> :)
15:55:45 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com cancelled review?(florian@instantbird .org) for attachment 1742 on bug 1477.
15:55:46 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 1743 on bug 1477.
15:55:47 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1477 enh, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Handle NickServ messages when authenticating with PASS
16:05:47 <-- Tonnes has quit (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 13.0.1/20120614114901])
16:06:47 * flo wonders if aleth feels the patch is ready
16:12:54 <aleth> Are we sure we can ditch the queued messages if PASS succeeds?
16:14:09 <aleth> Or can't there be any in that case?
16:14:36 <aleth> Otherwise it looks good to me :) 
16:14:56 <flo> the messages this will ditch are the message saying we need to identify and the message saying that we should request help from nickserv if we don't know what that means
16:15:17 <flo> the current patch looks good to me. I still think some comments could make more sense, but I'm too lazy to rephrase them :)
16:15:32 <aleth> Right. What I mean is, are we sure there can't be more messages than that?
16:15:36 <-- Optimizer has quit (Ping timeout)
16:16:30 <aleth> I think it would be a good idea if clokep filed a follow-up bug describing the problems standing in the way of doing more, in case a later solution comes to mind...
16:19:37 <aleth> Just so all the issues aren't lost over time...
16:21:06 <clokep_> flo: It's possible the comments are confusing yeah. :-/ Which ones don't make sense.
16:21:53 <flo> clokep_: "the PASS command succeeded" before the if (this.nickservMessageQueue) test
16:23:40 <clokep_> flo that whole comment can probably just be "If we have a queue of messages, we're waiting for authentication."
16:25:03 <clokep_> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/51056 is what I've changed for the comments so far
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16:26:55 <flo> ok
16:26:58 <flo> let's take that :)
16:29:40 <clokep_> OK!
16:31:35 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com cancelled review?(florian@instantbird .org) for attachment 1743 on bug 1477.
16:31:36 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 1744 on bug 1477.
16:31:37 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1477 enh, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Handle NickServ messages when authenticating with PASS
16:33:51 * clokep_ is now known as clokep
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16:37:01 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1542 to FIXED.
16:37:04 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1542 nor, --, 1.2, clokep, RESO FIXED, Use pkg-config instead of hard coded paths
16:37:22 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 483 to FIXED.
16:37:24 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=483 min, --, 1.2, bugi, RESO FIXED, Instantbird default theme has no preview image
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16:47:15 <clokep> Almost down to single digits of bugs that are assigned to me. ;)
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16:58:31 <Chaz6> Heya, been a while :)
16:58:37 <Chaz6> Come to tell you about another bug..
16:58:58 <Chaz6> Running version 1.1 on Windows 7
16:59:12 <Chaz6> I have the dpi set high, and on the contact list, the text height is cut in half
16:59:24 <Chaz6> and also the text is very small in the chat windows
16:59:39 <Chaz6> So i get the feeling instantbird doesnt recognize the windows dpi setting
17:00:18 <Chaz6> In the contact list, the text is larger, but the protocol icons are the same size, so it only shows the top half of each contact name
17:00:50 <flo> Chaz6: hi. Sounds like bug 935.
17:00:53 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=935 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, em and pt usage in CSS causes size/alignment errors for certain font sizes and DPI settings
17:01:13 <Chaz6> Hooray thank you
17:09:09 <flo> Chaz6: if you want to fix it, feel free to go ahead ;). Nobody is currently working on it, but I'm sure you aren't the only one that would be pleased to see this fixed ;).
17:11:23 <-- sonny has quit (Connection reset by peer)
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17:14:02 <clokep> It shouldn't too difficult to fix either, just needs a bit of love. :)
17:14:58 <-- Optimizer has quit (Ping timeout)
17:15:10 --> Mic has joined #instantbird
17:15:10 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 
17:15:17 <Chaz6> Unfortunately I'm not a c/c++ coder :<
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17:17:09 <flo> Chaz6: you are lucky that it's all CSS code then :)
17:17:13 <Chaz6> Oh is it?
17:20:15 <clokep> Actually most of Instantbird is XUL/JavaScript/CSS/HTML.
17:20:29 <clokep> Ignore the part that links up to libpurple, but that's crazy stuff flo wrote that no one else touches. :P
17:21:07 <flo> clokep: Mook has already touched purpleInit ;)
17:22:05 <clokep> flo: Mook is crazier than you, I think.
17:25:06 <flo> yeah, the DNS SRV request with a raw socket was... :)
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18:18:02 <aleth> gah, bug 1143 strikes again :(
18:18:06 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1143 nor, --, ---, nobody, REOP, New participants not correctly added to collapsed participant list
18:18:46 <aleth> am really going to have to find a way to fix that :(
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19:43:55 <PsyCoil> Hello
19:46:44 <PsyCoil> I'm trying to port Riceballs smileys into Instantbird, I've already managed theme.js, skin.jar, install.rdf, etc
19:47:17 <aleth> Great :)
19:47:24 <PsyCoil> I go through the installation just fine, but the emoticons do no appear at Options menu
19:47:49 <aleth> Are there any errors/warnings in the error console?
19:48:43 <PsyCoil> *facepalm
19:48:45 <PsyCoil> will check now
19:49:59 <aleth> You may need to set some about:config flags to see all the messages, see here https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Setting_up_extension_development_environment
19:50:49 <PsyCoil> Add -no-remote -P dev to shortcut?
19:51:15 <aleth> --no-remote is for when you want to run two instances of instantbird at the same time
19:51:38 <aleth> about:config are the internal settings, you can change them from Preferences -> Advanced
19:52:42 <aleth> The flags are listed further down on the page I linked
19:54:00 <aleth> -P selects the profile (it can be useful to have a separate profile for development work, so your "main" profile isn't touched by your experiments)
19:54:29 <aleth> But for your smiley theme, I'd just check the error console and see if there is anything obvious there
19:54:39 <PsyCoil> :P
19:55:00 <PsyCoil> Mhmmm... okay, I think I need to restart.
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19:57:03 <PsyCoil> Nothing in Error console
19:57:14 <aleth> OK, can you show me your install.rdf?
19:57:21 <aleth> there is a pastebin in the topic
19:58:01 <PsyCoil> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/51085
19:58:40 <aleth> replace <em:id>Riceballs-smileys@instantbird.org</em:id> with <em:id>emoticons-riceballs-smileys@instantbird.org</em:id>
19:59:00 <aleth> then try again
19:59:04 <flo> :)
19:59:10 <flo> just what I was going to say :)
19:59:33 <flo> PsyCoil: also, if you haven't read https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Creating_a_smiley_theme yet, it should be helpful/interesting :)
20:00:57 <-- PsyCoil has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1)
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20:04:02 <PsyCoil> Progress, but I think I done something wrong... The option now appears, but the emoticons are not showing in the preview
20:04:43 <aleth> Check the spelling and capitalization of the shortthemename matches in chrome.manifest and install.rdf
20:05:21 <aleth> The page flo linked has an example
20:05:34 <PsyCoil> skin	Riceballs-smileys	classic/1.0	jar:chrome/skin.jar!/
20:05:34 <PsyCoil>     <em:name>Riceballs-smileys</em:name>
20:06:06 <aleth> and the <em:id>?
20:06:29 <aleth> <em:name> is the user visible name (not used internally, it can have spaces and so on)
20:06:44 <PsyCoil> I just posted what you gave me :P
20:06:46 <PsyCoil>     <em:id>emoticons-riceballs-smileys@instantbird.org</em:id>
20:07:12 <aleth> so maybe change chrome-manifest to skin riceballs-smileys classic/1.0 jar:chrome/skin.jar!/
20:07:16 <aleth> that might do it...\
20:08:10 <PsyCoil> Is it case-sensitive?
20:08:24 <aleth> I'm not actually sure it's case-sensitive, but lets find out ;)
20:08:26 <flo> it's possible
20:09:02 <PsyCoil> Capital R, not taking any chances! :P
20:09:17 <aleth> As long as it's capital R in both...
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20:11:37 <PsyCoil> Still not showing in Preview
20:11:51 <aleth> Are you getting any error messages now?
20:12:02 <aleth> Or warnings?
20:13:16 <PsyCoil> Not something that has to do with my package
20:13:19 <aleth> and you have extensions.logging.enabled = true and javascript.options.showInConsole = true ?
20:14:37 <PsyCoil> Mhmm, no, I didn't have the first one... do I need to reinstall .xpi again?
20:14:49 <aleth> No, just restart.
20:15:12 <-- PsyCoil has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1)
20:15:13 <aleth> Then reinstall if you want to be sure.
20:15:39 --> PsyCoil has joined #instantbird
20:15:41 <aleth> Then reinstall if you want to be sure.
20:16:29 <-- PsyCoil has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1)
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20:18:02 <PsyCoil> Mhmmm.... I'm not sure If this has something to do with my .xpi, but I'll post it anyway:
20:18:04 <PsyCoil> Error: [Exception... "Component returned failure code: 0x80520012 (NS_ERROR_FILE_NOT_FOUND) [nsIChannel.open]"  nsresult: "0x80520012 (NS_ERROR_FILE_NOT_FOUND)"  location: "JS frame :: resource:///modules/imSmileys.jsm :: getTheme :: line 115"  data: no]
20:18:04 <PsyCoil> Source File: resource:///modules/imSmileys.jsm
20:18:04 <PsyCoil> Line: 126
20:18:18 <aleth> looks likely ;)
20:19:12 <PsyCoil> I don't have Line:126 in my theme.js :P
20:19:28 <aleth> No, it will be an error that happens when it tries to load your theme
20:19:47 <PsyCoil> I'll pastbin it
20:20:25 <PsyCoil> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/51086
20:20:38 <aleth> Maybe a filename in your theme.js doesn't match what is in the archive?
20:21:39 <PsyCoil> They match, case-sensitive too
20:22:18 <aleth> and you put them together with theme.js inside skin.jar?
20:22:49 <PsyCoil> yeah, I've got skin.jar and skin folder
20:23:25 <PsyCoil> Lemme check something
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20:25:01 <PsyCoil> Nope, that's not it... I had a spare folder in skin.jar
20:25:05 <aleth> skin.jar should be in a chrome folder, not a skin folder
20:25:20 <PsyCoil> It should?
20:25:28 <aleth> That's what it says here ;) https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Creating_a_smiley_theme
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20:26:50 <PsyCoil> test :P
20:26:51 <PsyCoil> Nope
20:27:23 <PsyCoil> Unless I'm not creating .xpi propely...
20:27:32 <PsyCoil> properly*
20:27:32 <aleth> Well, if you want you can dropbox the xpi and I'll take a look
20:27:49 <PsyCoil> Lemme dropbox everything.
20:27:51 <aleth> But it seems to install the XPI OK, just throw a file not found error when actually trying to use it
20:28:23 <PsyCoil> mediafire is okay?
20:28:29 <aleth> I guess
20:30:06 <PsyCoil> http://www.mediafire.com/?cs4zg1uc61wsmax
20:31:14 <aleth> Hmm, did you not look at the wiki page?
20:31:47 <aleth> You have skin.jar in the main directory, and then another copy in chrome/skin
20:32:08 <aleth> no you don't even have it there
20:32:22 <PsyCoil> I did look at it :P
20:32:57 <aleth> Unfortunately it's a bit of a complicated structure, but we inherit that from mozilla...
20:33:15 <aleth> So, in the XPI, delete the skin folder and everything in it
20:34:04 <PsyCoil> Wait... open the .xpi, and delete the chrome folder?
20:34:06 <aleth> Then make a completely new skin.jar containing theme.js and all your png files
20:34:16 <aleth> Keep the chrome folder, but delete everything inside it
20:34:30 <aleth> Then put the new skin.jar in it
20:34:50 <PsyCoil> I'm lost. Must be the hour.
20:34:54 <aleth> Your skin.jar also has directories inside it at the moment, which it shouldn't
20:35:12 <PsyCoil> Ohhh....
20:35:14 <PsyCoil> Okay.
20:37:07 <PsyCoil> I'm doing it with jar -cf
20:37:18 <PsyCoil> It creates another folder inside, META-INF
20:37:33 <aleth> That's not the problem I think
20:38:02 <PsyCoil> But It shouldn't have dirs in it?
20:38:09 <flo> PsyCoil: don't do that. Use the zip command instead
20:38:29 <aleth> It shouldn't have the files inside a dir
20:38:49 <aleth> But yes, it might be easier just to use zip :)
20:38:57 <PsyCoil> What's the zip command?
20:39:06 <aleth> Whatever you use to make zip files :)
20:39:22 <PsyCoil> Wait... create a zip file, then rename .ext?
20:39:25 <aleth> yes
20:40:12 <PsyCoil> so now skin.jar should go in the main folder
20:40:14 <PsyCoil> with install.rdf etc
20:40:15 <PsyCoil> ?
20:40:19 <aleth> No, in the chrome folder
20:40:33 <PsyCoil> It was in the Chrome folder...
20:40:40 <PsyCoil> Last time, I mean
20:40:49 <aleth> not in the version you gave me :P
20:40:51 <flo> PsyCoil: I would suggest reading again the wiki page
20:40:56 <flo> and then reading it a second time
20:41:04 <flo> most of the questions you just asked are answered very clearly there
20:41:29 <aleth> You have all the pieces, you just have to put them in the right place :)
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20:41:55 <flo> and I've really done my best to keep that page short
20:42:05 <flo> so reading it doesn't take a long time
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20:42:13 <flo> but you shouldn't skip any sentence
20:42:43 <aleth> I think he just made command line mistakes of some sort when assembling the xpi
20:43:06 <flo> aleth: the page says "A jar file is just a (non-compressed) zip file with the .jar extension. " ;)
20:43:25 <aleth> It's a good page ;)
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20:44:33 <PsyCoil> Yeah... I kinda missed the last one, okay, one more go.
20:44:50 <flo> but yes, creating an xpi file by hand is very error prone, and these errors are kinda frustrating, because you tend to make a new error each time you fix the previous one
20:45:03 <-- PsyCoil has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1)
20:45:09 <flo> it's the reason why I wrote a makefile for the addons repos ;)
20:45:20 <aleth> :)
20:45:22 <flo> I don't want to waste time with broken xpi files again
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20:45:57 <aleth> And I've stopped using the jar inside altogether. I don't see the point.
20:46:16 <flo> aleth: that page was written for 0.2...
20:46:42 <flo> at the time using a jar was an optimization
20:46:47 <aleth> sure, and mozilla still recommends it that way for some reason
20:46:51 <flo> now not having one that is an optimization
20:47:09 <flo> aleth: I would be "some reason" is "because nobody has updated the documentation" ;)
20:47:13 <flo> *bet
20:47:21 <flo> ie, same reason as for that wiki page :)
20:47:39 <aleth> Probably :D Someone said in developers 'mdn is best practice for all 5-year old features'
20:48:31 <aleth> PsyCoil: all working now?
20:48:47 <PsyCoil> chrome/
20:48:47 <PsyCoil> chrome/skin.jar         
20:48:47 <PsyCoil> chrome.manifest         
20:48:47 <PsyCoil> install.rdf
20:48:47 <PsyCoil> That's exactly how It looks like now, but still no go.
20:48:51 <flo> don't get me started on mdn :)
20:48:56 <flo> which I still call mdc :-P
20:49:06 <aleth> Has the error message changed?
20:49:16 <aleth> You can post me the xpi again if you like...
20:49:35 <aleth> flo: what's the c for?
20:50:03 <PsyCoil> Same as before.
20:50:04 <PsyCoil> Error: [Exception... "Component returned failure code: 0x8050000e [nsIJSON.decodeFromStream]"  nsresult: "0x8050000e (<unknown>)"  location: "JS frame :: resource:///modules/imSmileys.jsm :: getTheme :: line 118"  data: no]
20:50:04 <PsyCoil> Source File: resource:///modules/imSmileys.jsm
20:50:04 <PsyCoil> Line: 126
20:50:13 <aleth> That's not the same :D
20:50:16 <flo> PsyCoil: it's very clearly not the same
20:50:24 <aleth> Progress!
20:50:32 <PsyCoil> Oh, well, I don't have History here.
20:50:32 <flo> this time it says that it's the first part of the wiki page that you haven't read
20:50:56 <PsyCoil> Sorry about the page getting too long, I didn't know that was an issue. 
20:50:57 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 1744 on bug 1477.
20:50:59 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1477 enh, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Handle NickServ messages when authenticating with PASS
20:51:13 <aleth> What page?
20:51:20 <PsyCoil> This page. :P
20:51:44 <flo> it's the 4th line (and I counted even the title of the page as a line) :P
20:52:04 <aleth> Don't worry, the second add-on is a lot easier than the first ;)
20:52:09 <flo> basically, throw your theme.js file at JSLint
20:53:39 <aleth> Btw you do have history, because Instantbird has built in logging :)
20:53:41 <flo> aleth: mdc was "Mozilla developer center". Then in a gigantic move that involved mostly redesigning the homepage, creating a blog and breaking a few links, it was renamed to Mozilla developer network.
20:53:54 <flo> + instantbot has a public log of the channel
20:53:57 <PsyCoil> Oh, oh... Errors.
20:54:00 <PsyCoil> Damn.
20:54:07 <aleth> flo: ah, ok. At least they didn't call it Persona ;)
20:54:10 <flo> but he hasn't read the wikipage we linked to, so he probably hasn't read the topic either ;)
20:54:48 <aleth> PsyCoil: It's easy to make typos in files like that, so lint is useful.
20:55:19 <flo> and btw PsyCoil, sorry for being a bit sarcastic ;). But it can get a bit frustrating to have to repeat what's already written clearly ;).
20:56:05 <PsyCoil> Stop insulting my intelligence, man. I did read the Wikipedia page besides the last line as mentioned before, but I didn't use jslint.. :P 
20:56:07 <flo> and yes, it's very easy to forget to escape something in a hand-edited JSON file
20:56:34 <flo> wikipedia? :-P
20:56:44 <PsyCoil> Wikia page :P
20:56:45 <aleth> it is mediawiki...
20:57:21 <PsyCoil> Stop nitpicking :P
20:57:26 <aleth> PsyCoil: Don't get it wrong, it's really cool you're making an add-on :) Which looks like it will work in a minute
20:58:10 <flo> PsyCoil: it's the nits you haven't picked that make your add-on not work. Computers are even more stubborn than I am ;).
20:59:12 <PsyCoil> programming languages, you mean
20:59:34 <aleth> I think machine code would be even more stubborn ;)
20:59:50 <PsyCoil> Syntax
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21:02:16 <PsyCoil> Mhmm... just out of curiosity, linux users here?
21:02:24 <aleth> yes :)
21:02:56 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 1477 to FIXED.
21:02:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1477 enh, --, 1.2, clokep, RESO FIXED, Handle NickServ messages when authenticating with PASS
21:03:10 <aleth> Goodbye Nickservkiller :D
21:03:22 <flo> yes, finally! :)
21:04:05 <aleth> That's another distinct IRC improvement for the user over the libpurple version in 1.1...
21:04:19 <flo> PsyCoil: we support Windows, Mac and Linux so we have people from each of these OSes, with most of us using frequently at least 2 of them :)
21:04:19 <aleth> I mean, visible
21:04:29 <flo> aleth: it's invisible ;)
21:04:44 <flo> it's just that the libpurple prpl will more visibly suck when compared :)
21:04:46 <aleth> A much-needed gap :D
21:07:35 <flo> btw there's an interesting difference between the spirit in which the authors of these 2 plugins develop them ;). One believes that using IRC in a multi-protocol client is a bad idea and people using his plugin are crazy; the other author dog-starves his plugin ;).
21:07:40 <PsyCoil> I think I need to change some of the codes...
21:07:54 <aleth> PsyCoil: You seem to have not escaped some special characters
21:08:40 <PsyCoil> No special characters allowed?
21:09:06 <aleth> They are allowed, but you have to escape them
21:09:58 <aleth> http://www.w3schools.com/js/js_special_characters.asp
21:10:36 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/f0507769cd2b - Patrick Cloke - Bug 1477 - Handle NickServ messages when authenticating with PASS, r=fqueze,aleth.
21:10:38 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/c03c096f856b - aleth - Bug 1450 - Only remove unread ruler when switching away from a tab if tab has been visible for a certain time, r=fqueze.
21:11:41 <aleth> So you see it's only a few special characters that you have to be careful about
21:13:22 <PsyCoil> Okay, so I need to add some backslashes and stuff
21:13:26 <aleth> yes
21:13:37 <aleth> until jslint.com is happy ;)
21:13:50 <PsyCoil> painstaking work :P
21:14:59 <aleth> Not fun, but it shouldn't take long once you get the hang of it
21:16:01 <aleth> After all, that website tells you which lines you need to look at ;)
21:23:16 <PsyCoil> JSON says bad now, but doesn't give any Errors, function report is good
21:24:00 <aleth> Are there any blank lines?
21:24:03 <aleth> get rid of them
21:24:28 <aleth> But if there are no errors, you should be done :)
21:25:01 <PsyCoil> One escaped me
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21:37:21 <aleth> PsyCoil: Don't forget to upload your add-on to the add-on site when you are done!
21:38:01 <PsyCoil> Yeah, I first need permission from the original, I think.
21:38:16 <aleth> Right.
21:39:03 <PsyCoil> What unclosed string?!
21:39:03 <PsyCoil> {"filename": "Undecided.png", "textCodes": [":-\"]},
21:39:03 <PsyCoil> I'm exhausted
21:40:03 <aleth> That's got a \ in it, you need to escape that to \\
21:40:22 <aleth> Otherwise it sees \" and that is interpreted as a " that has been escaped ;)
21:41:29 <aleth> These things are always a bit frustrating the first time you do them...
21:55:30 <PsyCoil> Sorry, I'm back. I need to do those right before the "" right?
21:55:56 <aleth> "textCodes": [":-\\"]},
21:56:49 <PsyCoil> No, no, that's what I did before, but JSLINT still isn't happy.
21:57:12 <aleth> Is there something else maybe?
21:57:43 <aleth> I can't see what you're seeing...
21:59:18 <flo> out of curiosity, for which client did this theme already exist?
21:59:39 <PsyCoil> Adium, Miranda, also works on Disgby out of the box.
21:59:40 <flo> I'm wondering if it was in a format for which we could create an automatic conversion script :)
21:59:54 <PsyCoil> This is how It looks now: {"filename": "Undecided.png", "textCodes": [":-\\"]},
22:00:01 <PsyCoil> Actually Miranda is a port too
22:00:07 <aleth> If you pastebin the whole file it is easier
22:01:05 <PsyCoil> It keeps picking on that line, but fine.
22:01:40 <PsyCoil> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/51103
22:02:23 <PsyCoil> So, Adium is the only one that got the original 
22:02:24 <flo> PsyCoil: you need to escape both the \ and the '
22:02:24 <aleth> See, in the pastebin there is an extra '
22:02:38 <aleth> So it was worth pastebinning :)
22:02:43 <PsyCoil> Where?
22:02:53 <aleth> In that line
22:03:17 <PsyCoil> facepalm
22:03:51 <flo> I think at some point we wanted to automatically convert all adium themes
22:03:57 <flo> like we did for message themes
22:04:06 <flo> but nobody did it so...
22:04:19 <PsyCoil> I'm using succinct now
22:04:33 <PsyCoil> Which isn't supported by any program on Windows that uses Webkit
22:06:34 <PsyCoil> But not many people are aware to the program existence...
22:07:51 <PsyCoil> Okay, I removed the ' - jslint is still picking on me
22:08:37 <aleth> Probably just some spaces
22:09:06 <aleth> I suspect those won't cause any problems
22:09:26 <PsyCoil> Expected '(end)' and instead saw ','.
22:09:27 <PsyCoil> No unnecessary spaces
22:10:04 <aleth> Did you put a , at the end of the last item?
22:10:17 <PsyCoil> Oh, there, not It changed his mind.
22:10:19 <PsyCoil> Unexpected '(space)'.
22:10:23 <flo> you have some trailing whitespace on that line
22:10:26 <aleth> OK.
22:10:28 <flo> but that shouldn't prevent parsing the file
22:10:41 <aleth> If that's all there is then you can test it now :)
22:11:28 <PsyCoil> Oh man, JSON is a picky one. (Duh)
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22:28:29 <PsyCoil> Double-double-checked. No preview still. :(
22:28:49 <aleth> :(
22:28:52 <aleth> How frustrating
22:29:03 <aleth> Any changed errors?
22:29:42 <PsyCoil> I think so, but I don't understand, JS says valid.
22:29:47 <PsyCoil> Error: [Exception... "Component returned failure code: 0x8050000e [nsIJSON.decodeFromStream]"  nsresult: "0x8050000e (<unknown>)"  location: "JS frame :: resource:///modules/imSmileys.jsm :: getTheme :: line 118"  data: no]
22:29:47 <PsyCoil> Source File: resource:///modules/imSmileys.jsm
22:29:47 <PsyCoil> Line: 126
22:29:56 <PsyCoil> Unless I'm forgetting something.
22:30:06 <aleth> Pastebin the themes.js again?
22:30:30 <PsyCoil> Sure
22:30:30 <PsyCoil> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/51110
22:30:32 <PsyCoil> BRB
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22:31:19 <flo> seems valid
22:31:49 <PsyCoil> Does Instantbird have a problem with .png or something?
22:31:50 * flo suspects the jar and/or xpi wasn't correctly repackaged
22:32:09 <PsyCoil> Used ZIP
22:32:11 <flo> PsyCoil: the error means the json file can't be parsed
22:32:24 <PsyCoil> Changed zip to .xpi
22:32:40 <flo> so it's very likely the theme.js file it has isn't the one you pastebined
22:33:00 <aleth> Maybe make a new skin.jar and then put that in the xpi
22:33:08 <aleth> Your pastebin looks fine
22:33:54 <aleth> JSONlint agrees
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22:35:30 <PsyCoil> Repackaged everything. Still nothing.
22:35:45 <aleth> Put it on mediafire again?
22:36:10 <PsyCoil> Obviously, I'm doing something wrong in here, could one of you try it?
22:36:37 <aleth> Just upload the xpi somewhere
22:37:56 <PsyCoil> Here's everything: http://www.mediafire.com/?cdkv1o4yj7g97vl
22:43:09 <aleth> I get this Error: [Exception... "Component returned failure code: 0x8050000e (NS_ERROR_ILLEGAL_INPUT) [nsIJSON.decodeFromStream]"  nsresult: "0x8050000e (NS_ERROR_ILLEGAL_INPUT)"  location: "JS frame :: resource:///modules/imSmileys.jsm :: getTheme :: line 85"  data: no]
22:43:09 <aleth> Source File: resource:///modules/imSmileys.jsm
22:43:09 <aleth> Line: 93
22:44:07 * aleth has never put together an emoticon theme...
22:44:37 <PsyCoil> I'm getting this one at mine:
22:44:37 <PsyCoil> Error: [Exception... "Component returned failure code: 0x8050000e [nsIJSON.decodeFromStream]"  nsresult: "0x8050000e (<unknown>)"  location: "JS frame :: resource:///modules/imSmileys.jsm :: getTheme :: line 118"  data: no]
22:44:37 <PsyCoil> Source File: resource:///modules/imSmileys.jsm
22:44:37 <PsyCoil> Line: 126
22:44:56 <PsyCoil> There is an emoticon theme, skin.jar and theme.js
22:44:57 <aleth> basically the same.
22:46:38 <PsyCoil> Do the emoticon need to be in a specific size? They're all 18x18
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22:47:28 <flo> PsyCoil: the problem is with the JSON file
22:47:30 <aleth> No, it's still failing on the JSON
22:48:38 <PsyCoil> I'm not getting any errors on JSON, what are you getting?
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22:52:05 <aleth> Hmm
22:52:14 <aleth> I suspect the problem is the unicode character ¬
22:52:38 <aleth> Maybe the JSON-reading function chokes on that.
22:54:37 <aleth> Yes, that's it. Try escaping that.
22:54:58 <PsyCoil> Not use that character?
22:55:24 <aleth> Either not use it, or find the escaped way of writing it
22:56:09 <aleth> it should be \u... where ... is some number that picks out the character
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22:57:11 <flo> "\xAC"
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22:57:33 <aleth> flo just found it for you :D
22:57:38 <flo> aleth: that's what I get when I type "¬".toSource() in the error console
22:57:49 <aleth> Aha! nice trick :)
22:57:59 <PsyCoil> Awesome! Those emoticons are neat :P
22:58:05 <PsyCoil> Oh... :D
22:58:08 <PsyCoil> Wait..
22:58:22 <aleth> PsyCoil: So if you want to use that character, the escaped version is \xAC
22:58:24 <flo> it's surprising that it didn't work with the unicode character though
22:58:30 <flo> are you sure the file was correctly UTF8 encoded?
22:58:32 <aleth> I suspect it's a mozilla bug
22:58:40 <PsyCoil> :|
22:58:43 <aleth> Hmm, that could be
22:58:46 <PsyCoil> Oh, there, they do work.
22:59:05 <PsyCoil> TEST (^_^)
23:01:00 <PsyCoil> I've got some codes duplicated, mhmm... I'll fix that tomorrow. :)
23:01:16 <aleth> At least you have got it up and running :)
23:01:19 <aleth> The rest is fine-tuning
23:03:07 <PsyCoil> So, I've got a question...
23:03:10 <PsyCoil> :d
23:03:20 <PsyCoil> Two actually.
23:04:00 <PsyCoil> Is RTL support planned? 
23:04:00 <PsyCoil> Why custom emoticons do not work?
23:04:13 <flo> I may not be online much tomorrow (lots of things to move to the new house, a kitchen sink to buy...)
23:04:31 <aleth> Yes, get settled in...
23:04:33 <flo> are you in an RTL locale?
23:04:43 <PsyCoil> Mhmm?
23:05:09 <flo> :-P
23:05:17 <PsyCoil> What do you mean?
23:05:38 <flo> why are you asking about RTL?
23:05:40 <aleth> flo: You're right -the file was not UTF-8 encoded properly
23:05:58 <aleth> PsyCoil: So, you can use the ¬ character directly if you use a better editor :D
23:06:20 <aleth> Those smileys are kind of fun btw
23:06:20 <PsyCoil> I'm from Israel, we're using RTL here... :p
23:06:30 <flo> aleth: so we should add to the wiki page the list of characters that need escaping, and that the file needs to be UTF8 encoded
23:06:42 <aleth> Yes.
23:06:49 <PsyCoil> :P
23:06:55 <PsyCoil> :-p
23:07:01 <PsyCoil> I need to think about better codes.
23:07:15 <PsyCoil> p:
23:07:16 <aleth> Some smileys seem to be missing in the preview?
23:07:26 <aleth> like :P and :!
23:07:36 <PsyCoil> Yes, I noticed now
23:07:48 <flo> PsyCoil: so we try to not screw up RTL, but none of the developers speak RTL languages, so we don't really know how things are...
23:08:16 <aleth> PsyCoil: You are more than welcome to file bugs/help fix things :)
23:08:36 <PsyCoil> flo: I'm not much of a developer...
23:08:44 <aleth> PsyCoil: Also I'm not sure the &gt does what you intended...
23:09:01 <PsyCoil> Okay, what about the custom emoticons?
23:09:11 <aleth> What do you mean?
23:09:18 <flo> PsyCoil: right, what about them? :-P
23:09:41 <PsyCoil> The option appears in Propeties
23:09:54 <PsyCoil> But It doesn't work
23:10:01 <flo> we should get rid of that stupid option
23:10:46 <aleth> Btw, in install.rdf, you can capitalize the <em:name> however you like, add spaces etc. It's the name that will show up in the emoticons list in preferences
23:11:15 <aleth> flo: What does it do?
23:11:24 <flo> aleth: nothing ;)
23:11:39 <aleth> Better kill it for 1.2 then :)
23:11:41 <flo> aleth: well, not really nothing; it actively confuses users :(
23:11:58 <aleth> Removing things doesn't require strings ;)
23:12:19 <flo> aleth: well, technically removing a string breaks the string freeze
23:12:29 <flo> but we don't have to remove the string from the .properties files ;)
23:12:30 <PsyCoil> So why :P and :! do not appear as they should?
23:13:47 <aleth> PsyCoil: But you should definitely file bugs at least for RTL stuff as we otherwise will never know
23:14:34 <PsyCoil> Sure, the main problem though, receiver is not getting msgs in RTL
23:14:40 <aleth> PsyCoil: "Sticking Out Tongue" doesn't seem to be a file that exists :P
23:14:50 <PsyCoil> Only LTR
23:14:53 <PsyCoil> Eh?
23:15:01 <aleth> you forgot the .png
23:15:10 <aleth> same with the other one
23:15:17 <PsyCoil> No, I didn't... They are there.
23:15:23 <aleth> want to bet?
23:15:46 <aleth> {"filename": "Sticking Out Tongue", "textCodes": [":P", ":-p", ":-P", ":p"]} :P
23:15:54 <PsyCoil> Yeah
23:16:14 <PsyCoil> Inside skin folder
23:16:16 <PsyCoil> in .xpi
23:16:22 <PsyCoil> Sticking Out Tongue.png
23:16:25 <aleth> but not in the JSON
23:16:34 <PsyCoil> Damn. 
23:17:59 * aleth edits the wiki
23:18:10 <flo> PsyCoil: for bug reports, you will need to describe the situation a lot more than "the main problem though, receiver is not getting msgs in RTL". Do not assume that we know what you are talking about. We don't, so we really can't guess.
23:18:22 <PsyCoil> Also, I wrote the file with Notepad++
23:18:36 <aleth> Maybe you can set the encoding to UTF-8 somewhere
23:18:46 <aleth> If not, you need an editor that can do that.
23:19:24 <PsyCoil> Yeah, but Error Console won't give me any errors about RTL
23:19:31 <PsyCoil> Only thing I can do is provide you pictures
23:19:36 <PsyCoil> On how It should look like.
23:20:11 <-- igorko has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
23:20:25 <flo> the libpurple pref API is really really stupid
23:20:39 <aleth> PsyCoil: Pictures would be great
23:20:39 <PsyCoil> Pidgin got it working, though.
23:21:20 <flo> the default value of the pref is defined at the place where the name of the pref is given; and then at each place the current value of the pref is checked, the default value to return in case the pref hasn't been changed by the user needs to be specified again
23:21:33 <flo> so there's no one place where we can say that custom_emoticons defaults to FALSE :(
23:21:53 <aleth> :(
23:22:01 <aleth> PsyCoil: What did you think custom emoticons would do?
23:22:27 <flo> so removing that option and making it default to false will require lots of ifdefs (well, less than 10, but that's way more than should be reasonably required)
23:22:50 <aleth> flo: Do we have a Hebrew l10n?
23:22:52 <PsyCoil> What custom emoticons do...
23:22:56 <flo> aleth: no
23:22:57 <PsyCoil> http://www.top-windows-tutorials.com/image-files/pidgin-custom-emotes.jpg
23:23:11 <flo> aleth: but I think that shouldn't prevent the en-US version from being able to display RTL content
23:23:46 <PsyCoil> Smileys that are outside the original package
23:23:51 <aleth> It shouldn't.
23:24:53 <flo> PsyCoil: yeah, I know how horrible the thing called "custom emoticons" is in Pidgin.
23:24:58 <flo> we don't want that.
23:25:08 <aleth> PsyCoil: I can't see that working across protocols.
23:25:21 <flo> aleth: it's a misfeature of MSN
23:25:43 <flo> + someone find an obscure XEP about it, and implemented it for XMPP too in libpurple
23:25:44 <PsyCoil> I don't think It does... though, I didn't use Pidgin in a long time.
23:25:51 <aleth> I have found the bug and am wontfixing it then ;)
23:25:59 <PsyCoil> File transfer is broken for like... 2 years.
23:26:28 <aleth> File transfer doesn't work well anywhere. We have some plans for that...
23:26:45 <aleth> for some time in the future ;)
23:26:45 <PsyCoil> Yeah, I've been meaning to test that, but good to know...
23:27:15 <PsyCoil> I think Trillian got it working.
23:27:18 <flo> PsyCoil: for MSN the back-end is the same as for Pidgin, so we know file transfer wouldn't work reliably; hence we don't have any UI.
23:28:06 <PsyCoil> Miranda IM got it, but not direct
23:28:10 <flo> and there are more and more popular protocols (Google Talk, Facebook Chat) that don't even offer file transfer
23:28:21 <aleth> PsyCoil: It depends on what the person on the other end is using as well. And you can't control that.
23:28:28 <flo> anyway, good night
23:28:35 <PsyCoil> Good night
23:28:35 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm set the Resolution field on bug 707 to WONTFIX.
23:28:37 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=707 enh, --, ---, nobody, RESO WONTFIX, Custom smileys not showing when accepting them from another user as part of the MSN protocol.
23:29:45 <flo> aleth: the reason isn't really "this doesn't work across protocols" but "it's a misfeature" (annoying, gets in the way, absolutely no value added)
23:29:55 <PsyCoil> What "Allow direct connections" do then?
23:29:58 <flo> of course it's not really a politically correct way to wontfix a bug :)
23:30:35 <aleth> I thought "across protocols" was more polite way to say the same thing ;)
23:30:42 <flo> PsyCoil: it will also the implementation to try to establish a direct connection. There's no guarantee it will succeeded. For it to work either you are the person you are talking to needs to not be behind a router.
23:30:55 <flo> s/also/allow/
23:31:26 <PsyCoil> Lol, almost everyone today got a router...
23:31:40 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1594 filed by aletheia2@fastmail.fm.
23:31:42 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1594 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Remove libpurple custom emoticons preference
23:34:51 <PsyCoil> Service providers here give one of the two: MPLS, Modems who also work as Routers
23:36:23 <PsyCoil> I don't mind it much, though. Those are minor for me...
23:37:56 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1595 filed by aletheia2@fastmail.fm.
23:37:59 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1595 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Improve conversation context menus
23:38:09 <PsyCoil> Did you hear Digsby is going open-source soon?
23:38:45 <aleth> PsyCoil: as in "is no longer going to be developed"?
23:38:54 <PsyCoil> Lol
23:39:02 <aleth> (I don't know)
23:39:25 <PsyCoil> Probably, but unless they're lying, which could be the case...
23:39:32 <PsyCoil> They did say they're not going to abandon it.
23:40:06 <PsyCoil> BRB
23:40:07 <-- PsyCoil has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1)
23:40:08 <aleth> Digsby was the one where you had to register with their central server to do anything, right?
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23:40:29 <aleth> Digsby was the one where you had to register with their central server to do anything, right?
23:40:32 <aleth> Btw I hope you can get permission to put up your add-on, it will be a good one when it is finished :)
23:40:39 <PsyCoil> Fixed :P
23:41:12 <PsyCoil> Already fixed... I need to send the guy a mail or something.
23:41:40 <PsyCoil> :!
23:42:01 <PsyCoil> (Y)
23:42:37 <PsyCoil> aleth: Yeah, that's the one.
23:42:40 <aleth> So, I've added to the wiki so hopefully the next guy has it easier ;)
23:43:24 <PsyCoil> I hope my passwords are safe...
23:43:41 <aleth> You gave them your passwords?
23:43:44 <PsyCoil> Oh, they are.
23:43:50 <aleth> Hmm...
23:44:01 <PsyCoil> I didn't give them the password...
23:44:23 <PsyCoil> I just registered an account...
23:44:39 <PsyCoil> I think the passwords are uploading to their Servers, though.
23:44:43 <PsyCoil> Will change now! :P
23:44:48 <aleth> I would not want that...
23:45:01 <PsyCoil> Two more questions:
23:45:03 <aleth> In the upcoming IB 1.2 we will encrypt all passwords
23:45:50 <PsyCoil> Is there a way to fav an IRC chancel?
23:45:50 <PsyCoil> Where does Instantbird store status icons, service icons?
23:46:06 <aleth> You can autojoin IRC channels on startup
23:46:51 <aleth> There's no way yet to just fav/bookmark one, but it is planned.
23:47:04 <PsyCoil> Okay...
23:47:24 <aleth> But if you want to open a set of channels when you connect to a server, you can do that.
23:47:47 <PsyCoil> And I can add them all to connect on startup?
23:47:52 <aleth> Sure.
23:47:57 <PsyCoil> Good enough.
23:48:08 <PsyCoil> Does the program store icons anywhere?
23:48:08 <aleth> it's in the account options
23:48:16 <aleth> They are part of the theme I think
23:49:14 <PsyCoil> I didn't see an option to change the Theme, where does the program store it's defualt theme?
23:49:30 <aleth> Oh, you can write theme add-ons
23:49:50 <aleth> Change the theme from the add-on manager
23:50:06 <aleth> ("Appearance" tab)
23:50:19 <aleth> I'm not sure there is currently a good alternative one though.
23:50:19 <PsyCoil> Oh, right. Totally forgot about that...
23:50:38 <PsyCoil> But where does the program store the default?
23:51:04 <PsyCoil> Even Firefox does... I think
23:52:26 <aleth> here are some http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/branding/release/
23:54:15 <aleth> also http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/themes/
23:54:28 <aleth> That's probably the more important one
23:55:33 <PsyCoil> Okay, but the program does not read them from the web, no way. I can't find these files on my computer... I assume I need to hack the .exe
23:55:46 <aleth> I gave you links to the source code :P
23:56:20 <aleth> If you want to hack your own copy, and not write an add-on, you would have to look for those files inside omni.jar
23:56:57 <aleth> sorry, omni.ja as it is now called
23:57:16 <aleth> But if you do that, you will lose your changes when the program updates to a new version.
23:57:53 <PsyCoil> omni.jar. Thanks. :P