#instantbird log on 06 13 2012

All times are UTC.

00:03:17 <instant-buildbot> build #273 of linux-onCommit is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-onCommit/builds/273
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00:48:10 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com granted review for attachment 1594 on bug 1507.
00:48:12 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1507 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Target selector not disabled when there is only one account to select from
00:53:49 <clokep> aleth: So I have no idea what the proposed functionality change of bug 1096 is...
00:53:55 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1096 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add "Visible tags..." entry to contacts window background context menu too
00:54:03 <clokep> What do you mean by the "buddy list background"?
00:54:46 * Mook_as assumes empty area of the listbox, below the last contact
00:54:51 <clokep> Ah...it's if your buddy list has empty space at the bottom.
00:54:59 <clokep> Yeah, that's extremely confusing: I don't normally have any.
00:56:40 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com granted review for attachment 1187 on bug 1096.
00:56:44 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1096 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add "Visible tags..." entry to contacts window background context menu too
00:57:10 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com granted review for attachment 1188 on bug 1096.
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01:42:07 <instant-buildbot> build #261 of win32-onCommit is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-onCommit/builds/261
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03:14:10 <instant-buildbot> build #515 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/515
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04:58:21 <instant-buildbot> build #618 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/618
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05:07:36 <instant-buildbot> build #527 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Failure [failed shell_3]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/527
05:18:48 <instant-buildbot> build #243 of macosx-onCommit is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-onCommit/builds/243
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07:28:07 <Mic> Hi
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08:06:47 <sztanpet> hi, is there a way to make instantbird on windows "portable"?
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09:04:52 <Mic> sztanpet: yes, you can copy it to a flashdrive and call it with the "-profile"  command line parameter that takes the path to your profile folder as argument.
09:04:55 <Mic> See https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Command_Line_Options#-profile_.22profile_path.22 for details.
09:05:05 <sztanpet> ah, thanks
09:05:40 <Mic> Note that you can't use a Windows shortcut for this, most likely, as they only support absolute path names (and the drive letter assigned to your flashdrive might vary on different systems)
09:06:07 <sztanpet> but will that make the executable work too, no install and anything right
09:06:29 <Mic> It works without installing, yes.
09:06:35 <sztanpet> kewl, thanks a bunch
09:07:03 <Mic> You can either copy your IB program folder or download one without installer from our servers.
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10:08:17 <flo> I think I dislike the new link color even more than the blue one
10:08:47 <flo> it's an unfamiliar color (almost black, but not really black) that attracts my attention even more than when the links had the standard blue color
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10:22:56 <clokep> I think I like the new link color, but I won't be able to tell until I run w/ it for a bit.
10:23:25 <flo> I think I would prefer using the same color as the rest of the system message
10:32:21 <clokep> I don't know, I think that'll be too hard to find links then.
10:32:41 <flo> how often do you need to find links there?
10:33:15 <clokep> I tend to click on links from topics occasionally.
10:33:40 <flo> I think I would go as far as removing the underline until the link is hovered ;)
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10:37:03 <clokep> flo: I strongly disagree with that.
10:37:45 <flo> I would like if we could treat the topic and the quit messages differently though
10:38:04 <flo> the blue color seemed ok for the topic
10:38:10 <flo> (those were real links, not ads)
10:40:36 <clokep> Perhaps.
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10:42:14 <flo> do you often click the miranda (or instantbird :-D) links in quit messages?
10:43:15 <clokep> No.
10:43:59 <flo> is there an additional flag we could add to topic and topic changes system messages to differentiate them with CSS?
10:44:38 <clokep> We could always make one. ;)
10:47:51 <clokep> I mean we could use the "nolinkification" one on quit messages.
10:47:58 <clokep> But I think you want the links there, just not styled.
10:48:02 <flo> that would make them unclickable
10:48:11 <flo> what's the noFormat flag about?
10:48:16 <flo> we have it, but it's never used apparently
10:48:33 <clokep> No idea, Pidgin never uses it?
10:48:45 <flo> only the msn prpl sometimes sets it
10:48:48 <flo> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/search?string=PURPLE_MESSAGE_RAW
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10:56:19 <clokep> Fun.
10:56:24 <clokep> But yes, sounds like we could use that.
10:57:10 <flo> I've no idea of what it's really supposed to mean
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10:58:43 <clokep> The comment says "don't apply formatting", which would imply we should trip bold and such too.
10:59:03 <flo> that may not be a bad idea for quit messages :-D
10:59:24 <clokep> Easy enough to do...
10:59:48 <flo> yeah, .noFormat * { font-weight: normal !important; }
11:01:22 <flo> I'm not sure what http://lxr.instantbird.org/pidgin2.6.3/source/pidgin/gtkconv.c#5900 does with it though
11:01:52 <flo> it seems to be the equivalent of our /raw but for the other direction: direct HTML from the prpl to the conversation view :-S.
11:03:14 <clokep> Yes, it does.
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11:45:22 * aleth thinks something is up with the linux buildslave
11:49:12 <aleth> flo: Have you tried the original proposed link color? It's almost but not quite the same shade as the system message text.
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11:50:12 <aleth> I also thought that was a feature, not a bug...
11:51:05 <clokep_work> What was a feature and not a bug?
11:51:34 <aleth> The paler shade for system message links
11:51:49 <aleth> But it seems it's hard to find something there which pleases everybody...
11:53:35 <clokep_work> OK. :-S
11:55:24 <aleth> Maybe differentiating the topic would help. I didn't find it necessary. Not underlining links in the topic would be weird though.
11:56:25 <aleth> clokep_work: Thanks for the reviews!
11:56:55 <clokep_work> aleth: You're welcome. The one description really confused me as I had no "background" on my buddy list!
12:00:33 <aleth> clokep_work: Yes, if you never have that the original bug doesn't make much sense!
12:00:58 <aleth> New users encounter it easily though.
12:12:39 <clokep_work> Fair enough. :)
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12:18:25 * clokep_work is tired of bug 756277.
12:19:37 <flo> why?
12:22:01 <clokep_work> Just the amount of traffic on it, when it seems fairly obvious it's causing issues.
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12:23:03 <flo> clokep_work: what's not obvious is whether the issues are serious enough to justify putting the fix in 13.0.1 which is likely to be released this week; and wouldn't have received any testing before being released to hundreds of millions of users ;)
12:23:25 <flo> for my Thunderbird-related interest, it's already OK, as it was approved for aurora :)
12:23:43 <flo> but if we want to ship Ib 1.2 off of Moz13, we may have an issue ;)
12:23:58 <clokep_work> True. :)
12:24:05 <clokep_work> Could we backport that patch?
12:24:17 <flo> I'll (have to) try
12:24:29 <flo> but if they ship it in 13.0.1 we wouldn't even have to bother with it
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12:29:12 <clokep_work> Right!
12:29:19 <clokep_work> Hopefully for us they include it then.
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12:34:03 <clokep_work> What's the status of the l10n stuff btw? I know you made the repo and everything, but stuff automatically still, right?
12:35:17 <flo> I made the libpurple update, improved the situation around QQ, and cleaned up the situation for the converted strings
12:35:26 <flo> but the automation isn't fixed yet
12:36:52 <clokep_work> Alright, that's what I thought, just wanted to make sure. :)
12:37:21 <flo> so depending on how we measure how much there was to do, between 1/2 and 2/3 is done
12:38:09 <flo> if we want to give up on the idea of having the en-US strings of the application and the website in the same repo, fixing the hg hooks would be trivial
12:38:24 <flo> otherwise, someone (probably me) needs to focus on understanding why that broke
12:39:26 <clokep_work> Do we think we gain a lot by having them in the same repo?
12:39:35 <clokep_work> (I really have no idea, I don't know the workflow of l10n people. :))
12:39:48 <flo> the gain was that the en-US repo has exactly the same structure as the other locale repositories
12:39:57 <flo> so translators can be completely clueless and still figure it out
12:42:21 <flo> another thing we need to do is figure out why http://buildbot-l10n.instantbird.org/waterfall lists lots of l10n commits, but no build job is queued for when the builder comes online....
12:42:59 <flo> (because of this, translators no longer receive feedback emails after pushing to their repos; and we don't know why...)
12:43:18 <clokep_work> :(
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12:45:57 * flo feels bad about the 6 JS-XMPP bugs in his todo list that aren't in bugzilla and would be regressions for Gtalk
12:46:11 <flo> they would all be 1.2-wanted if not blocking :(
12:50:00 <clokep_work> :-/
12:50:09 <clokep_work> Is one of them the GTalk MUC creation? :)
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12:50:21 <flo> no
12:50:24 <flo> did libpurple support that?
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12:53:17 <clokep_work> EionRobb says it does...
12:53:59 * flo wonders if FeuerFliege is interested in finishing bug 483
12:54:02 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=483 min, --, ---, bugi, ASSI, Instantbird default theme has no preview image
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13:14:19 <clokep_work> flo: How difficult would it be to update the pidgin2.6.3 tree in lxr to pidgin2.10.4?
13:14:22 <clokep_work> Just curious. :)
13:15:00 <flo> 10 minutes or so
13:15:28 <flo> would be more interesting to wait for a day or two that they are on hg, and then replace that with pidgin-release and pidgin-trunk
13:15:42 <flo> (updated automatically every night like our own repository)
13:15:49 <clokep_work> Ah, very good idea. :)
13:16:13 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from clokep@gmail.com for attachment 1595 on bug 1505.
13:16:15 <clokep_work> http://hg.pidgin.im/ has little interesting on it right now. ;)
13:16:20 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1505 enh, --, 1.2, aletheia2, RESO FIXED, [Bubbles] Change link color in system messages
13:16:54 <flo> and if we are really motivated, pidgin-base (or whatever better name we can find for the version mentioned in http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/config/version.txt)
13:17:22 <clokep_work> Now you're just saying crazy things! :)
13:17:36 <flo> I hoped we could use http://hg.pidgin.im/www/pidgin/file/70cf102f8a6b/inc/version.inc directly, but it's 404 :(
13:18:07 <flo> currently I have a shell script that parses the current version number out of the HTML of the pidgin home page
13:18:27 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from clokep@gmail.com for attachment 1597 on bug 1505.
13:18:29 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1505 enh, --, 1.2, aletheia2, RESO FIXED, [Bubbles] Change link color in system messages
13:18:47 * clokep_work finds it interesting that there's no tags in the hg stuff...
13:19:00 <clokep_work> Ah, that's the website, not the code. :)
13:19:31 <aleth> Do you refer to the pidgin code much?
13:19:48 <flo> aleth: when working on js-proto, no ;)
13:19:55 <flo> otherwise the version on lxr would be up to date :)
13:20:10 <aleth> I thought it was just there for legacy reasons...
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13:20:16 <clokep_work> aleth: What's your thought behind "the surrounding text is more, not less, important than the URL."?
13:20:25 <clokep_work> aleth: I refer to it when doing random things.
13:20:59 <flo> aleth: when fixing something in libpurple, I typically need to know if it's already fixed upstream, so being able to quickly see the file for the version we currently use (but without our patches), for the latest release, and for the current trunk would be helpful
13:21:23 <aleth> clokep_work: Generally links in system messages seem to occur in the format "description: link" - the description seems more immediately important
13:21:35 <clokep_work> OK.
13:21:43 <aleth> But just look at the screenshots.
13:22:09 <clokep_work> flo: I do kind of wish they had chosen to split libpurple into a separate repo though, we could actually pull it in and apply patches to it then (not sure if that's better or worse than what we do now, but it'd be more options...)
13:22:56 <flo> clokep_work: I was wondering if we would want to do some hg convert magic, so that for the next libpurple updates we could import changesets, rather than apply a big patch
13:23:38 <clokep_work> I think it's worth thinking about at least. :)
13:23:42 <flo> clokep_work: we would need to commit all out patches to that converted libpurple repository, and then just update it, and merge
13:23:50 <aleth> clokep_work: I'm actually not sure what is best between the three options... that's why I put them all up
13:23:52 <flo> *our
13:24:39 <flo> aleth: how is "An intermediate possibility would be to have the link colour be the same as the
13:24:39 <flo> surrounding text until the link is hovered over." an intermediate solution? :)
13:24:51 <flo> (it seems to be what I suggested, btw)
13:24:54 <aleth> flo: Intermediate between the two patches v2 and v3 :D
13:25:23 <aleth> Yes, it was your suggestion
13:25:47 <aleth> I can put up a patch v4 if you like... but the required change seemed obvious
13:26:23 <aleth> When I said "three options", I was counting that one.
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13:27:50 <clokep_work> I don't think I like v3 much...
13:28:16 <clokep_work> flo: Yeah, we could commit them or just put them as patches in the repo and apply them as we do for Mozilla.
13:28:22 <clokep_work> (Or use an mq :P)
13:29:16 <aleth> clokep_work: I kind of agree... it's funny that it seems more logical, yet looks a bit odd somehow.
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13:32:16 <instantbot> New Core - XMPP bug 1510 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
13:32:23 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1510 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Support MUCs in GTalk
13:32:37 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from clokep@gmail.com for attachment 1601 on bug 1505.
13:32:39 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1505 enh, --, 1.2, aletheia2, RESO FIXED, [Bubbles] Change link color in system messages
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13:33:38 <flo> clokep_work: I'm getting tired of the comments in that XHR bug too ;)
13:34:43 <clokep_work> flo: It just sounds like no one is listening to each other there. :)
13:34:51 <clokep_work> aleth: The same color w/ darker on hover seems fine to me.
13:34:53 <flo> clokep_work: not really
13:35:17 <flo> clokep_work: it seems like someone said something that is wrong, and doesn't want to admit it; and that initial wrong statement blocks others from moving forward ;)
13:35:39 <clokep_work> Yeah.
13:36:09 <flo> clokep_work: I'm confused now. Didn't you say you strongly disagree with that suggestion a few hours ago? :-S
13:36:26 <aleth> Funny how as soon as you add a screenshot it becomes more real... I thought that the suggestion was clear enough not to need one at first 
13:36:29 <clokep_work> flo: I like it with the darker links on hover.
13:36:55 <clokep_work> Although I'm still not in favor of removing the underlines.
13:37:30 <flo> I guess I'll need to r+ it myself then ;)
13:37:46 <aleth> Underlined but the same colour looks weird to me for some reason.
13:38:00 * flo prefers no underline
13:38:03 <aleth> Like as if the link colour was brooken
13:38:16 <flo> clokep_work: let's blame add-on authors now! :)
13:38:52 <clokep_work> flo: Yup, always the add-on author's fault.
13:39:16 <aleth> And if not, somebody should write an add-on? ;)
13:39:40 <flo> aleth: he'll be guilty of writing that add-on anyway ;)
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13:41:12 <flo> aleth: just one comment about the patch: my first reaction when I read it was that |:not(:hover)| seemed like it could be removed if we added a text-decoration: underline; in the :hover case.
13:41:22 <flo> you may want to add in the code the comment that explains it in the bug
13:42:48 <aleth> Actually underlined isn't that bad either... I think I have looked at too many screenshots recently to judge 
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13:43:24 * aleth thinks it's up to the reviewers now
13:43:39 <flo> aleth: it's up to you to chose your reviewer ;)
13:43:47 <flo> I would r+ the version without the underline
13:43:48 * clokep_work doesn't want to review it./
13:44:01 <aleth> For this kind of thing, everyone is a reviewer, certainly as soon as it lands :P
13:44:11 <clokep_work> That's a good quote. :)
13:44:24 <flo> clokep_work: you r+'ed 1096 for which I couldn't decide if I liked the new behavior so... :-D
13:44:54 <flo> clokep_work: "I resent that remark." ahah :-|
13:44:58 <flo> that bug isn't improving :(
13:46:48 <aleth> Is there some bikeshedding happening on bmo?
13:47:13 <flo> aleth: the fun is in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=756277 ;)
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13:53:07 <clokep_work> Ah, a nice comment: http://blog.instantbird.org/2012/05/status-update-may-23-2012/#comments
13:53:31 <aleth> :)
13:54:59 <aleth> Btw someone who knows the contact list code should look at the recent error bugs, I suspect they are not too hard to fix for someone who can spot the edge case
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13:56:09 <flo> aleth: when I saw you were reporting them, I thought you were volunteering to become "someone who knows the contact list code" ;)
13:56:22 <aleth> But I don't...
13:56:57 <flo> that may be a good thing for your sanity :)
13:57:09 <flo> (but not for the quality of our blist ;))
13:59:51 <flo> so apparently "you may want to add in the code the comment that explains it in the bug" was confusing :(
14:00:25 <flo> I meant: you may want to *add in the code* the comment that [already] explains it in the bug
14:00:50 <clokep_work> Seems to be something like.... http://hg.guifications.org/pidgin-hg-2012-05-31/main/file/fbcef8b52b7e/libpurple/protocols/jabber/google/google.c#l146
14:04:24 <flo> bug 1203 comment 12 looks like it needs some attention
14:04:27 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1203 maj, --, ---, florian, ASSI, No longer able to log into Facebook Chat via Instantbird since patches enabling JS XMPP
14:04:52 <flo> + that person seems to be the one who posted the nice comment on the blog
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14:07:27 <clokep_work> Yes, it does. :)
14:07:41 <clokep_work> Is that patch relevant to his issue, maybe?
14:07:53 <flo> the discussion has moved over to #developers now
14:08:23 <flo> clokep_work: the patch in the bug is already checked in
14:08:58 <clokep_work> Oh? No check-in comment in the bug...
14:10:02 <flo> clokep_work: comment 6
14:12:21 <clokep_work> Bah, I'm blind. :( Sorry.
14:13:20 <flo> you aren't blind, it's buried in a wordy comment. I would have missed it if I didn't remember that bug
14:14:04 <instantbot> New Core - General bug 1511 filed by psyker7@gmail.com.
14:14:06 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1511 min, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Possible to add duplicate accounts
14:14:26 <flo> so for a quick summary: there seems to be something wrong in the way we handle some passwords. I fixed the case of passwords containing accentuated characters (that Pidgin doesn't even know how to handle), but that didn't help the original reporter
14:14:47 <flo> who emailed me his password, and it turns out his password doesn't contain any special character that could mess up our code
14:14:57 <clokep_work> Oh? That's weird. :(
14:15:00 <flo> so I was completely out of ideas :(
14:15:09 <clokep_work> Were you able to reproduce?
14:15:48 <flo> I could reproduce with accentuated characters in a password
14:16:25 <flo> (hmmm, I guess that explains why I couldn't login to facebook chat the last time I tested it on a new test profile, I changed the password of my facebook test account to contain accents :-D)
14:16:36 <flo> I fixed the case that I could reproduce
14:16:53 <flo> and I was out of idea
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14:17:55 <Mic|web> I think I've seen bug 1511 today
14:17:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1511 min, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Possible to add duplicate accounts
14:18:20 <Mic|web> At least I had a duplicated Mic@irc.mozilla.org account and no idea how that happened.
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14:18:54 <clokep_work> flo: You know, I vaguely recall reports that if you have apps disabled you can get a Not Authorized error?
14:19:20 <flo> clokep_work: except things work with the libpurple plugin and the same account configuration ;)
14:19:36 <clokep_work> Oh, right. :(
14:19:44 <clokep_work> Wireshark and see what's different? :-D
14:20:08 <flo> it's all SSL'ed...
14:20:17 <clokep_work> Can you connect w/o SSL? :)
14:20:26 <flo> if I could reproduce, I would add some printfs in the libpurple code
14:20:42 <flo> and then fed these same values into our code doing the encryption, and fix it until we find the same results
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14:23:04 <Mic|web> OK, you can have two IRC account with the same name and both connect fine. Interesting.
14:23:06 <clokep_work> Right. :-/
14:23:17 <clokep_work> Mic|web: Is the nick changed on one?
14:23:23 <Mic|web> Yes
14:23:29 <Mic|web> See Mic/Mic1 a moment ago
14:23:29 <clokep_work> Weird...
14:23:38 <flo> Mic|web: I think we never finished the implementation of http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/modules/jsProtoHelper.jsm#715 and the code seems to agree with me ;)
14:23:55 <clokep_work> Hahah.
14:25:12 <Mic|web> OK, will change this bug then.
14:28:13 <Mic|web> Is this 1.2-anything?
14:29:24 <flo> if someone wants to fix it, it's easy (just implement that method in jsProtoHelper to compare the normalized names of the existing accounts of the same protocol) and we can take the fix for 1.2
14:29:36 <flo> if nobody cares, I don't really mind shipping with that regression
14:33:38 <clokep_work> Sounds like it should be fairly straight forward. :)
14:34:58 <Mic|web> OK, I'll have a look
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14:41:22 <flo> Mic|web: twitter too
14:48:42 <clokep_work> Ah, he can reproduce with another account, interesting.
14:50:17 <flo> that guy seems helpful :)
14:52:17 <clokep_work> Yes!
14:53:25 <flo> I feel unproductive today :(
14:53:35 <flo> I've been "reviewing" https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748358 for hours
14:54:14 <flo> it turns out there's something wrong in the code that I need to debug, and that forces me to rewrite the logic behind the automatic selection of items in the left pane of the Tb Chat pane :(
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14:56:11 <clokep_work> Ack, that's gross.
14:57:06 <flo> and as that's super boring, it's difficult to concentrate on it and get it done :-/
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14:58:57 <clokep_work> I know how that is. :-D
14:59:18 * clokep_work has been working on boring stuff this week too.
15:00:19 <flo> it's 1am for him now, which time zone is that? :)
15:00:56 <clokep_work> 14 hours away from me, so somewhere in Asia.
15:01:15 <flo> 15 hours from me
15:01:35 <clokep_work> Australia perhaps?
15:01:46 <flo> maybe :)
15:01:59 <flo> by the way, his email also contains this comment: "No rush to get it fixed, I'm using pidgin as my primary IM atm, but once it is fixed I'll probably look at switching permanently.
15:02:00 <flo> Love the work you've done - particuarly the tagging instead of groups, and the 1.2 alpha has a sort plugin by status which is awesome =D"
15:02:16 <clokep_work> 1:00 AM in Melbourne right now.
15:02:20 <clokep_work> Hah.
15:02:29 <clokep_work> I dislike when people really like the addons I've made but don't use. :-X
15:02:33 <flo> clokep_work: congrats for the awesome plugin ;)
15:02:34 <clokep_work> Puts pressure on me to support them.
15:03:02 <flo> what about if instead of disliking it, you take it as an opportunity to find a maintainer? ;)
15:03:14 <flo> btw, I wanted to try using that add-on to see how it feels
15:03:20 <flo> is it restartless?
15:04:09 <flo> uh, "sort by status instantbird" in google gives this result: http://znoobstunnel.appspot.com/addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/317
15:05:14 <clokep_work> You going through a proxy?
15:05:34 <flo> no, but google is, apparently ;)
15:06:15 <flo> I installed it, it will be a nice(?) surprise at the next restart
15:06:33 <clokep_work> Yeah it's not restartless because it overrides the binding...which I think I was too lazy to figure out how to do.
15:06:36 <flo> (not from that http url though, I typed the https//AIO)
15:07:28 <Mic|web> flo: can I rely on the account name passed to accountExists to be normalized already?
15:07:58 <flo> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/accountWizard.js#68
15:08:17 <flo> Mic|web: so no, it's whatever the user typed in the box
15:08:32 <flo> including the "hasOwnProperty" annoying value ;)
15:09:05 <flo> (and entering that value for a twitter account is wrong anyway; except if you are me ;))
15:10:48 <Mic|web> hmm..
15:15:02 <clokep_work> I think each account has a normalizedName field though, no?
15:15:24 <flo> do they have a normalize method too?
15:15:38 <flo> if not, it may be quite difficult to know if the string the user entered matches :-/
15:16:22 <flo> apparently no :(
15:16:45 <clokep_work> There's one everywhere else w/ vague comments, but not one there? :P
15:16:57 <flo> we clearly need some more ;)
15:17:36 <Mic|web> jsProtoHelper has one
15:17:47 <flo> but it's not the good one :(
15:18:37 <flo> for xmpp you would want to call http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/protocols/xmpp/xmpp.jsm#833 for example
15:19:21 <flo> so that patch is more difficult than it seemed :(
15:19:35 <Mic|web> Yes :(
15:19:50 <flo> 6 more lines of code to change ;)
15:23:36 * jwir3|away is now known as jwir3
15:24:22 <Mic|web> I'm not sure I understand how I should get it rigth for XMPP (or whatelse is using other ways to normalize their account names)?
15:27:18 <Mic|web> bbl
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15:27:28 <clokep_work> IRC probably needs code written.
15:27:35 <clokep_work> Twitter should just .toLowerCase() and compare the names.
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16:34:00 <flo> Mic|web: I think you would want a _normalizeName method in the GenericAccountPrototype
16:34:25 <flo> and make all JS protocol implementations that don't want the default normalize that jsProtoHelper offers override that method
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17:02:12 <myk> not sure if i raised this before, but when i "/query foo", i would really like instantbird to switch to the new tab in addition to opening it
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17:03:20 <myk> since it doesn't switch to the new tab, and i expect it to, i sometimes say something in the existing tab that is confidential and intended for the person i am querying
17:03:49 <flo> I think there's a bug on file for that
17:04:14 <flo> but it's difficult to fix, because in general we don't want protocol plugins to be able to control the UI, and commands are handled by protocol plugins
17:05:09 <clokep_work> There is a bug open for it...I don't know the # off hand.
17:06:02 <clokep_work> myk: bug 837 it seems
17:06:06 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=837 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Give new tabs opened via IRC commands focus
17:10:37 <myk> flo: does the plugin open the tab?
17:10:54 <flo> it opens the conversation
17:11:02 <flo> but the UI doesn't really know who started it
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17:55:30 <Mook_as> hmm. can I do colored text in IRC in the tbird impl? or I guess, at all?
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17:59:39 <clokep_work> Mook_as: Sure, if you know the proper characters to send. ;)
18:00:03 <clokep_work> (Note that coloring isn't standardized among clients.)
18:03:26 <Mook_as> oh, right, this is IRC, nothing's ever standardized properly :p
18:03:51 <Mook_as> I don't think I can type the correct control characters in this textbox, though
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19:31:15 <clokep_work> Mook_as: You probably can't, I don't know.
19:31:30 <clokep_work> The list is at http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/protocols/irc/ircUtils.jsm#97 though.
19:31:55 <clokep_work> And the control character is \003.
19:32:12 <clokep_work> Copy&Paste it maybe? :)
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19:33:43 <Mook_as> I don't think I can :(
19:34:00 <Mook_as> also, blah, I can't set my user name to something that's not &brandShortName; ? :(
19:34:20 <Mook_as> (looking at http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/protocols/irc/irc.js#1047 )
19:34:38 <clokep_work> There's no option for it, no.
19:34:45 <clokep_work> Does it matter?
19:35:06 <clokep_work> Or do you just not like people knowing your client? :P
19:35:17 <Mook_as> I just like people knowing I'm me? :p
19:37:28 <flo> Mook_as: do you seriously mean you want people to trust that username to identify you? :-P
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19:38:41 <Mook_as> hah, no, not place any trust in it
19:38:53 <Mook_as> more just... I dunno. maybe it doesn't make sense? :p
19:39:20 <clokep_work> Mook_as: We're trying to find a balance of ease of use.
19:39:30 <clokep_work> The user name /doesn't mean anything/. So we autoset it.
19:39:50 <Mook_as> right; I'm definitely not asking for UI to set it
19:39:58 <Mook_as> (also: I may be insane anyway)
19:43:49 <aleth> Mook_as: Your real name is set though... to "Mook_astb"
19:43:51 <flo> clokep_work: can an add-on set it, currently?
19:45:14 <clokep_work> flo: I don't think so.
19:45:28 <clokep_work> We could fairly easily make it check a preference first that we don't expose in the UI.
19:45:56 <flo> would it be a global preference, or a per account preference?
19:46:03 <Mook_as> aleth: yeah, that'd be my _original_ nick. which is... not as useful :p
19:46:18 <flo> clokep_work: I think we could totally r+ a clean patch doing that, but doing it ourselves isn't worth our time ;)
19:46:30 <aleth> Mook_as: No, it's the overall display name, which you can change
19:46:58 <flo> aleth: it's possible we fallback to the nick when the display name isn't set :)
19:47:02 <Mook_as> aleth: it's not impossible that the tbird UI is busted and doesn't expose it ;)
19:47:23 <aleth> Mook_as: It's more than possible I have never tried the TB UI ;)
19:47:41 <aleth> But I suspect you can set your name...
19:47:50 <Mook_as> flo: I'd think it's per-account, but what do I know :p
19:47:59 * Mook_as suspects he can set it in about:config
19:48:07 <clokep_work> flo: Per account is easier.
19:48:23 <Mook_as> err, that was meant for the real name, but happens to apply to the other thing too, huh
19:49:15 <clokep_work> The realname is the account's display name: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/protocols/irc/irc.js#863
19:49:37 <clokep_work> (Which is able to be changed per account in the backend, but isn't exposed that way in the Instantbird UI. Who knows what the TB UI does.)
19:49:56 <flo> Mook_as: it's exposed at the top of the "account status" dialog
19:50:31 <flo> "Who knows what the TB UI does." florian in #maildev maybe? ;)
19:50:39 <clokep_work> And yes, I would r+ a clean patch that adds it.
19:50:45 * Mook_as looks for the account status dialog
19:51:00 <Mook_as> oh! that accounts dialog
19:51:05 <clokep_work> It should be like a 3 line patch. :)
19:51:49 <flo> I would be more interested in r+ing the patch to fix the accountExists jsProtoHelper implementation (even though I'm not really interested in that feature
19:51:49 <flo> )
19:52:03 <Mook_as> so, the thing that would usually be used for the away message, I guess
19:52:16 <flo> when do you all think we could/should release 1.2? When can/should we string freeze? 
19:52:29 <flo> I'm wondering if freezing this week-end sounds like a good idea or too early
19:53:04 <clokep_work> I think that sounds fine. I'm not expecting any more string change.s
19:53:07 <Mook_as> if https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=t%3A1.2 is accurate, that seems fine
19:55:04 <flo> Mook_as: the search should be sw:1.2, not t:1.2 :-P
19:55:45 <aleth> clokep_work: Any string changes from the NickServ patcj?
19:56:42 <Mook_as> bug 1271 might have l10n impact?
19:56:46 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1271 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Missing keyboard shortcuts for "Put conversation on hold" and "Show logs"
19:56:46 <aleth> flo: There will be strings in the account.xml redo if that is planned for 1.2
19:57:21 <Mook_as> and bug 1486 probably involves some work as well (though probably not much)
19:57:25 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1486 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Update to Mozilla 13
19:57:31 <flo> aleth: is anybody working on it though?
19:57:42 <flo> Mook_as: but no strings, right?
19:57:45 <aleth> flo: Not me, I'm just flagging it for strings
19:57:53 <clokep_work> aleth: No, but I think that's probably going to be 1.whatevercomesafter2
19:58:16 <flo> aleth: so if nobody is working on it, it's not coming
19:58:53 <aleth> So bug 1498 should also wait?
19:58:56 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1498 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, "this.buddy is undefined" on merging two IRC buddies
19:59:02 <aleth> uh not that one
19:59:04 <aleth> bug 1497
19:59:07 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1497 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, "-status offline" command line parameter doesn't stop accounts from connecting
19:59:12 <flo> I think that bug waits for an owner
19:59:27 <clokep_work> Why would that bug wait aleth?
19:59:32 <clokep_work> Is there some concern about a regression?
19:59:35 <aleth> I don't know how that would "feel" with the current UI
19:59:41 <aleth> We could test it in nightlies I suppose
19:59:57 <flo> aleth: I don't know either; that's why I haven't r+'ed it (yet)
20:00:42 <aleth> Also, going to nag about bug 1450 again ;) because I think it needs some feedback from more people than me
20:00:45 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1450 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Only remove unread ruler when switching away from a tab if tab has been visible for a certain time
20:01:09 <flo> https://etherpad.mozilla.org/ib-1-3 what about starting to put ideas there? :)
20:01:32 <flo> sometimes having things to look forward to fixing *next* gives motivation to finish the current release and ship it :)
20:02:51 * jwir3|lunch is now known as jwir3
20:04:18 <clokep_work> Yay lots of things we want. :P
20:04:57 <aleth> And those are just the closest ones :P
20:05:11 <flo> aleth: do you really think "infinite scroll" is close?
20:05:49 <flo> are we aiming for 1.3 3 months after 1.2 ? :)
20:05:53 <flo> or 6 weeks? :)
20:06:11 <aleth> flo: I don't quite know, it depends what I may find after bug 958 lands
20:06:15 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=958 enh, --, ---, benediktp, ASSI, Show last messages (history) in new chat windows
20:06:46 <aleth> flo: I think a "minimal version" of it may be doable reasonably quickly
20:07:03 <flo> heh, that one is for 1.3 too ;)
20:07:09 <aleth> Yeah...
20:07:21 <aleth> So if we don't release 1.3 in 2013, probably not.
20:07:27 <aleth> :D
20:08:57 <flo> who's driving the 1.3 release? ;)
20:11:01 <flo> when I look at that list, it seems I want to get rid of half of our UI
20:11:24 <flo> I just want to get rid of the: join chat, add buddy, log viewer and maybe account properties dialogs ;)
20:11:31 <aleth> It's called evolution
20:11:37 <flo> oh, and fixing the libpurple proxy crap, to get rid of that stupid proxy dialog :)
20:11:58 <flo> aleth: well, lots of software project see evolution as adding more dialogs and pieces of UI ;)
20:12:22 <aleth> That's devolution ;)
20:12:54 <aleth> They just leave out the 'd'
20:15:36 <flo> Tb has way too many dialogs IMHO ;)
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20:20:39 <clokep_work> flo: I think we should aim for 6 or 12 weeks afterward.
20:20:47 <clokep_work> Only have finished things land.
20:21:35 <flo> how would we test unfinished things?
20:21:47 <flo> does that mean we really really need a try server?
20:22:15 <clokep_work> flo: I mean IRC should have landed preffed off somehow. ;)
20:22:32 <flo> I suspect lots of the things listed in the "Longer term goals:" couldn't be realistically done if we had to get them completely fixed a week or two after they land
20:22:40 <clokep_work> What I mean is not to land things that we'll expect to find regressions for long periods of time.
20:22:53 <aleth> I think nightlies should be able to land anything
20:23:15 <aleth> Otherwise you just have another layer of complexity
20:23:25 * clokep_work wants to stay in a "shippable" state.
20:24:55 <flo> do you mean trunk always shippable, or that we need to be able to ship "something" at any time (to include an emergency security fix for example)?
20:25:07 <flo> I think we are in a pretty bad situation with the latter currently :(
20:25:22 <clokep_work> I mean that we'd need to be able to ship something.
20:25:29 <clokep_work> But maybe some of that is just from faster releases.
20:25:34 <clokep_work> Does everything on that pad have bugs filed?
20:25:42 <flo> mostly because when upgrading things on the buildslave for compatibility with newer versions of Mozilla, we can no longer build the previous release (or at least that happened for the last 2 releases)
20:25:55 <clokep_work> Right. :(
20:26:06 <clokep_work> Are the buildslaves VMs?
20:26:18 <flo> windows and linux are
20:26:27 <flo> Mac VMs are difficult
20:26:37 <clokep_work> Right.
20:27:08 <flo> that remains me to add a "drop ppc" line :)
20:27:53 <aleth> It'll be really hard to find regressions in the first place if they aren't in the nightlies
20:28:28 <flo> clokep_work: not sure if bugs are filed or not; mostly brainstorming at this point
20:29:15 <clokep_work> aleth: I didn't say not to land anything until it's perfect, I said not to land half-baked things.
20:29:21 <flo> aleth: for things that can land pref'ed off, it's quite OK to put things in nightlies and not enabled by default I think, so we could still dogfood
20:30:08 <aleth> I don't think IRC was half-baked when it landed
20:30:27 <aleth> flo: Right.
20:31:04 <flo> aleth: that's just a way for clokep to say that JS-XMPP shouldn't have landed, but without mentioning it explicitly :-P
20:31:10 <aleth> ahaha
20:31:13 <flo> (as JS-XMPP is obviously worse than JS-IRC)
20:31:26 <clokep_work> flo: I actually was referring to IRC. :(
20:31:31 <clokep_work> It wasn't as ready as I thought it was.
20:31:40 <flo> clokep_work:  I know. I was kidding :)
20:31:45 <aleth> clokep_work: That's what nightlies and dogfooding are for!
20:31:49 <aleth> flo: It's had less attention, that's all
20:31:55 <clokep_work> But yes, XMPP needs some love too! ;)
20:32:02 <flo> clokep_work: I honnestly don't remember any JS-IRC bug that was bad enough that we wouldn't be able to shipt
20:32:20 <flo> except maybe the bug about password protected rooms, and the /mode commands
20:32:21 <clokep_work> flo: The connection stuff was a mess for a while.
20:32:29 <flo> but both could have been fixed within a week
20:32:45 <clokep_work> This is exciting: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=632847 :-D
20:33:52 <flo> what's exciting about it?
20:33:59 <flo> I don't see any JS functions in it
20:34:07 <flo> without cross language profiling, it's not better than Shark :-/
20:34:32 * clokep_work doesn't know what shark is. :-[
20:35:04 <flo> the standard mac os x profiler
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20:35:20 <clokep_work> Ah.
20:35:56 <flo> but maybe that built-in profiler has some hidden benefits :)
20:36:15 <clokep_work> Well, sounds like we need to finish the l10n stuff so we can string freeze and get this ball rolling? :)
20:38:13 <flo> I wanted to spend the evening filing bugs, so that the things I have hidden in my todo list become visible
20:38:21 <flo> but apparently I spent it discussing random things (again)
20:38:31 <clokep_work> :( Sorry.
20:38:44 <aleth> Well, we made another todo list ;)
20:39:34 <flo> isn't wince already killed?
20:39:56 <flo> ah no, we still have some junk left
20:39:56 <clokep_work> There's various ifdefs that refer to it still.
20:40:54 <clokep_work> And the configure script too, Idk how close we try to keep that w/ Firefox's?
20:41:34 <flo> we keep it close to comm-central, not mozilla-central
20:41:42 <clokep_work> Right. :)
20:41:47 <flo> another update of our whole build system could be useful
20:41:52 <flo> (some more boring work)
20:41:53 <clokep_work> Anyway, go file some bugs. Stop talking to me. :P
20:42:09 <flo> what about finding some good excuses to land ib in c-c? :-D
20:42:49 <clokep_work> That works too. :P
20:43:37 <flo> I should ask bienvenu about it some day :-)
20:44:10 <flo> shipping libpurple as a built-in add-on, does that sound attractive?
20:44:42 <aleth> One way to profile its memory impact ;)
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20:45:42 <flo> do we want new tabs?
20:45:49 <clokep_work> Australis?
20:45:52 <flo> (refresh the theming to match Fx/Tb)
20:45:54 <flo> yes
20:46:03 <clokep_work> I don't particularly care one way or the other for it.
20:46:08 <clokep_work> But I suppose it's swanky looking.
20:46:29 <flo> I'm afraid ib will look like "old Firefox" if we don't follow that move
20:46:41 <clokep_work> Yeah. :-/
20:46:47 * clokep_work wonders what else is in his mq.
20:48:01 <clokep_work> Nothing else too exciting
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20:51:19 <aleth> How close is Australis anyway?
20:51:30 <aleth> Not even in nightlies yet afaik...
20:52:09 <aleth> Even the new download panel is still preffed off in Aurora...
20:52:45 <flo> I think it's already there by default on Tb Trunk Windows
21:29:41 * wnayes has the XChat importer working - still thinking about how to go about making tests.
21:30:46 <flo> cool! :)
21:30:49 <Mook_as> assuming xchat has user configs in files, make the file path a parameter in some main function, have the tests ship a static profile, and pass that in?
21:31:03 <Mook_as> (and separately test that locating the default config files/profile gives the right results)
21:32:45 <wnayes> The way it is written now I was thinking the tests might have to write out temp config files, and the importers would need to read those (by knowing that a test is being run by some property)
21:38:32 <wnayes> There isn't a function exposed in any of the importers that takes a path (currently), but there are methods that the account searching methods call to get a nsIFile of the configs based on OS.
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