#instantbird log on 06 06 2012

All times are UTC.

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00:54:00 <instant-buildbot> build #256 of win32-onCommit is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-onCommit/builds/256
01:26:20 <clokep> instantbot: uuid
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08:47:33 <aleth> What did this do? http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/6bfe0ff89425
08:47:43 <aleth> I didn't notice a change in icon either...
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09:47:35 <flo> aleth: it enabled JS-XMPP for Thunderbird
09:47:40 <meh> :quit
09:47:43 <meh> ops lol
09:48:00 <flo> aleth: (notice the application={3550f703-e582-4d05-9a08-453d09bdfdc6})
09:48:23 <flo> and for the icon, I don't see a change either
09:49:08 <flo> my guess would be that the libpurple jabber icon is still used because purple/ is compiled after chat/
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09:51:15 <aleth> Right, that makes sense, thanks.
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09:51:49 <flo> so if we really want to apply that icon, we would need to remove the existing libpurple one I think
09:52:16 <flo> the 4 lines at http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/jar.mn#18
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09:53:28 <aleth> It might be good to be consistent. But then again it seems nobody will actually be able to use the XMPP protocol on TB anyway fro the time being.
09:53:41 <flo> why not?
09:53:52 <flo> jabber.org definitely works
09:54:06 <aleth> Do you have to specify the IP directly?
09:54:11 <flo> no
09:54:21 <flo> that wouldn't work anyway (as the IP wouldn't match the SSL cert)
09:54:45 <aleth> Ah yeah.
09:55:02 <flo> it's just that the "jabber.org" hostname has an A record pointing to an IP that accepts connections on the standard XMPP port
09:55:25 <flo> DNS SRV is required only if the XMPP server lives on a different hostname than what's after the @ in JIDs
09:55:56 <aleth> Right, I thought that was usually the case.
09:56:20 <flo> I think most very popular servers will work with DNS SRV
09:56:20 <aleth> But I never actually checked.
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09:56:58 <flo> and small organizations that use XMPP with JIDs from their own domain but actually forward the XMPP hosting to another company would have problem
09:57:23 <flo> except if they use Google Talk for Google Apps (because if people select "Google Talk" in the list of protocol, we hard code talk.google.com and things still work :))
09:57:42 <flo> "I think most very popular servers will work with DNS SRV" I meant "without" of course
09:59:38 <aleth> Well, I suppose feedback from TB users will rapidly clarify this now ;)
10:00:08 <flo> I think we won't hear about people for whom it will just work ;)
10:00:25 <aleth> That's what I meant ;)
10:00:48 <aleth> I had assumed even large XMPP servers used DNS SRV, for load balancing
10:01:46 <flo> I'm not sure how DNS SRV would help for load balancing
10:01:53 <flo> you can load balance with A records
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10:24:53 <clokep> Boo. :( I wanted my new icons.
10:25:15 <flo> delete these 4 lines then? :)
10:25:33 <flo> I'm sure having these new icons is the most important new feature of the 1.2 version ;)
10:28:15 <clokep> I think so. :)
10:36:42 <instantbot> New Core - General bug 1485 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
10:36:43 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 1569 on bug 1485.
10:36:44 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1485 tri, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Use the XMPP icons from chat/ instead of purple/
10:37:43 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 1569 on bug 1485.
10:37:43 <flo> easiest review ever ;)
10:38:10 <clokep> :)
10:38:47 <flo> it's sad that fixing Tb's JS shutdown error doesn't remove the large shutdown leak :-/
10:40:46 <flo> "###!!! ASSERTION: This will end badly!" hmm :-S
10:43:03 <clokep> Uh-oh.
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12:23:53 <flo> clokep_work: have you noticed that someone filed an MSN over XMPP bug on bmo? ;)
12:29:08 <clokep_work> flo: Oh, really? :p
12:29:21 <flo> clokep_work: yeah, I'm really surprised! :)
12:29:32 <clokep_work> It seems it's a bit more in-depth than just "implement oauth 2" though.
12:29:38 <clokep_work> I think handling the roster is done a bit specially.
12:30:05 <flo> we can just decide it's readonly (like on Facebook Chat...)
12:30:39 <clokep_work> At least initially, yup. :)
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12:37:07 <clokep_work> Seems only like a couple days work. ;)
12:37:41 <flo> I would estimate one afternoon of work
12:38:00 <flo> but my estimates tend to be over optimistic by a 6 times factor, so... :)
12:38:19 <clokep_work> + getting an icon. ;)
12:38:35 <flo> 3 weeks for that! :)
12:40:27 <clokep_work> :-D
12:40:31 <clokep_work> Seems reasonable to do though.
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12:40:55 <aleth> Especially as the libpurple MSN is problematic...
12:41:27 <flo> but then we will need to organize a party to celebrate the removal of the msn prpl, that would take another week :-D
12:41:46 <aleth> and a few days to recover from the party :D
12:42:14 <clokep_work> aleth: Well the bigger gain is for Thunderbird, which can't use libpurple. :)
12:42:55 <aleth> Maybe your bug will attract some TB devs then ;)
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12:50:56 <aleth> Ha, that looks like it should have midaired ;)
12:55:39 <clokep_work> aleth: I think autojoin you don't want to autofocus.
12:55:49 <clokep_work>  + receiving an IM.
12:56:11 <aleth> clokep_work: Right, the latter especially.
12:56:36 <aleth> OK, in that case the bug is much more tricky to fix.
12:56:58 * flo added his 2 cents there
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12:59:50 <clokep_work> Yup! :)
13:00:14 <clokep_work> It's possible IRC should be using a different method to create the conversation in that case (instead of it's intenernal stuff), maybe it should be calling the join chat method.
13:01:08 <flo> clokep_work: do you mean the "/join" command should be handled by the UI rather than the prpl? That sounds difficult to do :-S
13:02:12 <clokep_work> flo: No, I'm wondering if /join command should call whatever method the join dialogue uses to joina  conversation.
13:02:37 <aleth> clokep_work: That won't work for /query though.
13:03:02 <clokep_work> aleth: /query should be #ifdef DEBUG IMO.
13:03:21 <aleth> well, /msg then
13:03:35 <clokep_work> aleth: Why wouldn't it work?
13:04:22 <aleth> In the end you have to distinguish whether a new conversation being opened is in response to such a command.
13:04:42 <flo> what's the difference between /query and /msg?
13:04:57 <aleth> For /msg, what would you do? Test the conversation exists before sending a privmsg?
13:05:08 <clokep_work> flo: /msg sends a message to a user, /query is raw commands.
13:05:26 <clokep_work> I.e. /query sends what you type exactly to the server, unchanged (well it adds a \r\n...)
13:05:27 <flo> clokep_work: both have the same help message ;)
13:05:42 <flo> I thought /quote was what you just described as /query
13:06:13 <aleth> So it is.
13:06:17 <clokep_work> Ah.
13:06:20 <clokep_work> Sorry. :(
13:06:27 <clokep_work> I was thinking of quote, yes.
13:06:36 * clokep_work doesn't like having all these alises for commands...
13:06:47 <flo> I would be ok with /quote only in debug builds, if it's possible to add it in release builds with a trivial add-on :)
13:07:08 <aleth> I don't think it's worth hiding.
13:07:33 <flo> isn't the worse that can happen only that server doesn't like what the user sent, and closes the socket?
13:07:38 <flo> *worst
13:08:24 <clokep_work> Yes.
13:08:32 <clokep_work> Well no.
13:08:37 <clokep_work> The worst that can happen is they ban you. :P
13:08:52 <flo> they ban me because a user sends crap to the server?
13:09:29 <flo> that sounds unfair ;)
13:09:43 <clokep_work> :)
13:09:48 <aleth> they nuke the server from orbit, it's the only way to be sure ;)
13:11:06 <clokep_work> flo: aleth: my reason for wanting to not include it is that it potentially let's missing functionality hide. :-D
13:11:09 <aleth> clokep_work: one could remember the last target of the join or msg commands and check for that in getConversation, focus if it matches
13:11:17 <clokep_work> If people can just do /quote blah blah as a work around to doing things we don't support...
13:11:23 <clokep_work> Well I'd rather support it, if it's reasonable.
13:15:30 <aleth> clokep_work: Problem with that being that you can /join multiple channels at once so you'd need an array...
13:16:40 <aleth> Not a real problem if that behaviour is wanted though.
13:17:25 <flo> clokep_work: so you would want each call to /quote to also send you an email? :-P
13:17:46 <aleth> flo: I think a ping would be more immediate :P
13:17:59 <flo> aleth: doesn't work if it's on a different network
13:18:07 <flo> what about MemoServ?
13:18:27 <flo> could that send clokep a message when he's back online?
13:19:30 <aleth> flo: I think that depends on the settings you have chosen
13:20:19 <aleth> It can be set up that way, yes
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13:21:13 <clokep_work> flo: Yes, mine is set up that way.
13:22:27 <clokep_work> If we ever add email notifications to Instantbird I'll hook memoserv up to it. ;)
13:27:25 <flo> https://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central/rev/9e8f283a8af1#l2.1 hmm
13:27:54 <flo> I should setup some notifier to email me every time something in chat/ is changed without r={fqueze,florian,clokep} or the author being one of us
13:29:22 <clokep_work> If you do that, want to make it email me too? :)
13:29:33 <flo> MemoServ you :-P
13:29:50 <clokep_work> Yeah I saw nsILocalFile was going away...I wasn't sure if it affected us though.
13:30:06 <flo> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/search?string=nsilocalfile
13:30:33 <flo> apparently it only needs to be changed in .{idl,cpp,h} files for now
13:32:27 <clokep_work> I wonder if we should just make an "Upgrade to Mozilla xyz" for every version of Mozilla including the trunk version so we can track these things?
13:33:11 <flo> that would be nice
13:33:25 <flo> so that we can track all the things that we know will need attention at the time of the next upgrades
13:35:20 <clokep_work> Yup.
13:40:34 <instantbot> New Core - General bug 1486 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
13:40:36 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1486 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Update to Mozilla 13
13:42:23 <flo> and now you just need 3 more, right? :)
13:42:28 <clokep_work> Yup
13:42:30 <flo> current trunk is 16
13:42:31 <clokep_work> Looking up releases...
13:43:36 <instantbot> New Core - General bug 1487 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
13:43:38 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1487 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Update to Mozilla 14
13:44:20 <flo> you kept the fx13 for devs url for the moz14 bug
13:45:08 <instantbot> New Core - General bug 1488 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
13:45:10 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1488 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Update to Mozilla 15
13:45:29 <clokep_work> Arg and now I fixed the wrong one...
13:47:10 <instantbot> New Core - General bug 1489 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
13:47:13 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1489 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Update to Mozilla 16
13:47:17 <clokep_work> OK, now we can file whatever we want and block against those. :P
13:48:20 <flo> this time I think I got my screenshot of the task manager showing -100k% of CPU usage :)
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13:50:55 <flo> each new Firefox version feels so much faster... immediately after it forced a restart of the browser ;)
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13:52:28 <flo> too bad it's frozen :-S
13:57:19 <instantbot> New Core - General bug 1490 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
13:57:21 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1490 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Remove usage of nsILocalFile for Mozilla 16
14:02:08 <clokep_work> Any other things we know of?
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14:05:27 <Mic> Hi
14:05:50 <clokep_work> Hello Mic.
14:06:32 <Mic> deomega1: Session Restore is pretty unpolished at the moment, I wouldn't recommend using it beside for testing. cloke p experienced some problems that requiredhim to restart already :(
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14:07:45 <flo> clokep_work: not off the top of my head
14:10:43 <clokep_work> Mmhmm.
14:10:48 <clokep_work> Moz 13 seems rather tame.
14:11:57 <deomega1> Mic:  no problem.. has been working fine so far for me and i restart  every day anyway :)  will let you know if i have any issues
14:12:03 <deomega1> Thanks for yoru great work
14:16:28 <flo> clokep_work: "Starting in Firefox 13, Firefox for Windows requires at least Windows XP Service Pack 2; it will no longer run on Windows 2000 or earlier versions of Windows XP." we took that change a while ago
14:16:49 <flo> that's a user friendly way of saying "is now compiled with MSVC2010 instead of MSVC2005"
14:17:32 <clokep_work> flo: Yes, I know. :) Still thought it was worth mentioning in the bug.
14:20:31 <Mic> about:buildconfig says nothing at all about the source for IB.
14:20:31 <aleth> I think fl o alreaduy filed a bug for that.
14:21:43 <Mic> Not that this would be important at all, I think I looked at this page once before - and only to see whether we have it or not ;)
14:22:37 <clokep_work> 14 has Map and Set objects...
14:23:27 <aleth> 15 has JS default arguments and ...rest
14:27:15 <aleth> clokep_work: I guess you could have used Map yesterday ;)
14:30:11 <clokep_work> aleth: Yes, but I don't know if it's actually easier at all, besides being "safe".
14:30:13 <flo> am I the only one seeing frequently "components/imConversations.js, line 47: reference to undefined property this._purpleConv[this._currentTargetId]"?
14:30:37 <aleth> clokep_work: I was just reading the documentation and wondering what the big benefit was
14:31:12 <clokep_work> aleth: I think it's just that it's "safe" (we use the global hasOwnProperty method thing...)
14:31:19 <aleth> flo: Never seen that one.
14:31:21 <clokep_work> flo: I don't know if I've seen that. :)
14:31:29 <aleth> clokep_work: I suppose that is a minor win...
14:31:33 <flo> it's when closing conversations.
14:31:36 <clokep_work> I do occasionally see osmething about not being able to find a string in a bundle.
14:31:45 <flo> either at shutdown, or when deleting an account that has open conversations I think
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14:37:19 <clokep_work> Hmm...
14:37:30 <clokep_work> wnayes might be seeing that if he's creating/deleteing accounts a lot. :)
14:38:10 <testib1> I'm looking through the list of Tb-IM bugs filed a while ago (mostly when it landed on comm-central) to see if I can close some of them quickly :)
14:40:27 <clokep_work> Yeah I kind of did that the other day and hit a few of them just asking for more info mostly.
14:42:49 <Mic> The first step to close things as "incomplete"? ;)
14:43:16 <flo> Mic: or duplicate/fixed
14:43:36 <flo> but I just found one that's easy to reproduce, and "sounds" simple, so I'm trying to patch it
14:44:12 <Mic> I know that real bugs don't go away just by claiming that the report is incomplete ;)
14:45:54 <flo> if only I could use venkman and set a break point, the bug I'm currently trying to understand would be trivially easy to understand :-/
14:46:27 <flo> at some point I should probably try to use Daily as my default IM client for a few days to see if it feels usable
14:48:31 <flo> I still dislike the message theme: http://i.imgur.com/RAS96.png
14:49:11 <aleth> There has to be some reason to switch to IB ;)
14:50:03 <flo> hmm, how come the participant list was sorted when I took the screenshot, and is now a complete mess :-S
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14:56:18 <clokep_work> flo: Because you're using my sort by status extension!? :P
14:56:44 <flo> no :)
14:57:45 <clokep_work> There was a bug open for that though...
14:57:58 <flo> yes, but I think I said I couldn't reproduce
14:58:10 <flo> it was on its "incomplete" way ;)
15:05:16 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from clokep@gmail.com for attachment 1570 on bug 837.
15:05:22 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=837 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Give new tabs opened via IRC commands focus
15:07:30 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org denied review for attachment 1570 on bug 837.
15:07:36 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=837 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Give new tabs opened via IRC commands focus
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15:09:43 <clokep_work> Easiest review ever? ;)
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15:09:56 <flo> clokep_work: I was about to say that ;)
15:10:15 <aleth> I guess feedback would have been more appropriate ;)
15:10:29 <flo> possibly :)
15:10:37 <flo> I haven't even looked at the rest of the code
15:10:46 <flo> I did wonder what was the reason for a setTimeout call though
15:11:43 <aleth> Initializing the new tab is asynchronous and takes a little time.
15:12:06 <flo> ah, so in addition to breaking Tb, it doesn't work at all on slow machines. Even better :-P
15:12:17 <aleth> That part of the code was obviously going to have to be replaced, the question is with what.
15:14:10 <flo> oh, and for a third reason to r-, it doesn't work with /j :)
15:14:38 * aleth mutters something about not using r? for WIPs in the future 
15:15:05 <flo> aleth: sorry :-|
15:15:37 <aleth> Btw I agree we should really ditch /j
15:16:27 <flo> aleth: more seriously, if I really wanted to fix that bug (which isn't the case; I wouldn't assign such a bug to myself), I think I would try adding a readonly attribute to all conversations indicating if they have been created by an user action or by an even from the network (or by auto-join? or by unknown? or by session restore?)
15:16:29 <clokep_work> aleth: Patches accepted. :)
15:16:49 <flo> aleth: and I think that would be really difficult to do, because you would have to find ways to know that info for libpurple conversations too
15:19:07 * flo returns to debugging https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=742669 which turns out to be caused by the JS error in imConversations.js I was complaining about a moments ago :)
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15:30:05 <flo> bah, the cause of that error is actually in Tb's front end code
15:30:19 <clokep_work> Yay?
15:48:53 * wnayes is starting on the Pidgin importer :)
15:49:11 <flo> :)
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17:40:03 <clokep_work> wnayes: Feel free to include lots of documentation and links to resources, etc. when writing this stuff by the way. :)
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17:49:45 <wnayes> clokep_work: Will do, right in the file as comments or on the wiki?
17:50:03 <clokep_work> In the code please.
17:50:12 <clokep_work> Especially if it's an "official" reference (i.e. for Pidgin).
17:57:07 <clokep_work> (I try to put a nice block comment at the top of each of the IRC files saying what specs it implements, etc.)
17:57:21 <clokep_work> Something like that could be nice, saying what it imports, from where, etc.
18:01:58 <clokep_work> (And we should probably do more of a "real" code review at some point too btw...)
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18:02:55 <wnayes> clokep_work: I was thinking that too, would rather have issues handled sooner than later :)
18:04:33 <clokep_work> wnayes: Yeah, maybe we could export your changes as a patch and look at it that way? I'm not sure if it's worth merging in changes from upstream first or not (probably not at this point).
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18:06:16 <wnayes> I haven't merged anything from the main repository since the initial commit (wasn't fully sure how to do so)
18:06:41 <clokep_work> You'd have to add another path and then pull from that one I think.
18:07:03 <clokep_work> (I.e. you'd do hg pull https://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird)
18:07:08 <clokep_work> And then merge it?
18:07:14 <clokep_work> I don't remember exactly how to do that though.
18:15:57 <clokep_work> wnayes: It doesn't really matter though, you can just do an |hg diff -r <whatever rev was right before you started doing stuff>:tip|
18:16:02 <clokep_work> And we can look at that. :)
18:16:11 <clokep_work> (I looked at it a bit the other night in fact...didn't review it though...)
18:23:18 <wnayes> Looks like that worked. I don't know if it would be better to wait until I have some of this Pidgin code finished before taking a look at it though.
18:26:09 <clokep_work> wnayes: We'll just ignore that directory for now.
18:26:10 <clokep_work> ::)
18:26:40 <clokep_work> I'm not sure of what flo's plan is for this (I think he wants to land it all at once). So I don't know if we want to do reviews in a bug or some other medium...
18:27:53 <wnayes> I think the main part to look at would be the interfaces/importer service. The UI was not intended to be perfect yet :)
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18:31:30 <clokep_work> Right.
18:32:20 <clokep_work> Could be worth looking over even just for code style type stuff.
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19:00:26 <wnayes> Is there anything obvious I could be doing wrong when getting an "Illegal character" error on a line with "#ifdef XP_WIN" in JavaScript? It seems to be working in other js files.
19:02:52 <clokep_work> wnayes: Are you preprocessing the file?
19:03:07 <aleth> Do you have any indentation in that line?
19:04:27 <wnayes> aleth: No, clokep_work: Haven't heard of that :)
19:05:03 <clokep_work> wnayes: Well if you're doing ifdefs, you have to run it through the preprocessor, see something like http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/components/Makefile.in#22 for a component.
19:05:09 <clokep_work> Why are you using an ifdef though?
19:05:17 <clokep_work> They're generally frowned upon if they're not needed.
19:05:58 <wnayes> I was thinking it would be needed to find the OS-specific .purple folder.
19:06:13 <Mook_as> Services.appinfo.OS ftw!
19:07:28 <clokep_work> We do have some ifdefs for that kind of stuff...yes...but I think we've mostly turned them into constants.
19:07:55 <clokep_work> wnayes: See http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/components/src/logger.js#28
19:11:22 <wnayes> I'll see if another way works, Thanks.
19:12:01 <clokep_work> I mean if the #ifdef seems to be the cleanest way, then feel free to use it.
19:15:56 <wnayes> If Services.appinfo.OS reliably returns "WINNT" for Windows OSs, I think that would be reasonable to check.
19:16:17 <Mook_as> yep, it does
19:16:36 <Mook_as> it's a build-time value, not run-time
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19:20:12 <clokep_work> wnayes: See https://developer.mozilla.org/en/XPCOM_Interface_Reference/nsIXULRuntime
19:21:23 <wnayes> Works for me :) Thanks.
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21:44:36 <clokep> Good evening!
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21:48:27 <testib1> my normal instantbird nightly doesn't seem to be willing to reconnect
21:48:40 <testib1> all the accounts are stuck on "Connecting..."
21:49:25 <testib1> except twitter that says "Connecting: Requesting user timelines…" but that's basically the same thing (it's the first connection step)
21:49:37 <testib1> (when we already have an OAuth token)
21:49:52 <clokep> That's strange. :(
21:50:14 <testib1> aleth: btw, "purpleConversation" for me refers to the C++ class implemented in purpleConversation.cpp
21:50:15 * instantbot mumbles something about c++ being evil
21:51:36 <testib1> aleth: the "prpl" prefix usually refers to things implemented by each protocol plugin, and "purple" by things that are for libpurple
21:52:08 <aleth> testib1: OK. I used the term as the array in ConversationsService is called _purpleConversations.
21:52:27 <testib1> that sucks :(
21:52:41 <aleth> Maybe that is old code...
21:52:46 <testib1> and what that file calls "UIConversations" are the imIConversation instances
21:52:51 <aleth> It confused me at first, yes.
21:53:26 <aleth> That's why I thought the other week "prpl" was just short for "purple" ;)
21:53:33 <testib1> it's not that old, but it was implemented at the time we were moving everything around to have something that works even without libpurple, so it's possible some bad naming decisions happened
21:55:08 <testib1> aleth: it's the kind of sucky things that I no longer noticed because I've browsed that code countless times, but I can totally understand that it's confusing when reading it for the first time! :(
21:56:54 <testib1> "UIConv[ersation]" is used in so many places (http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/search?string=uiconv) including interfaces exposed to add-ons that I don't think we can rename it now :-/
21:57:33 <aleth> But purpleConversation (and aPurpleConversation) seems to be pretty much limited to imConversations.js, so maybe if you did a replace there would that help?
21:57:36 <clokep> Well we /can/, it might just be not nice.
21:58:15 <testib1> the "purple" word seems to be used inappropriately only in imConversations.js, so we could mass search&replace with prpl
21:58:22 <aleth> (the other references are to libpurple code)
21:59:12 <testib1> ah, also in that comment: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/conversation.xml#1553 :)
21:59:52 <clokep> File a bug? :-D
22:00:44 <aleth> For "UIConversations are the imIConversation instances" a suitable comment in imConversations.js might help.
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22:04:46 <Mook_as> if you want to be helpful, implement a custom getter for the old name that 1) spews in the error console about the rename, and 2) return the new value?
22:05:23 <testib1> aleth: the comment may also want to be in the idl file
22:06:08 * clokep likes Mook_as' idea.
22:06:10 <clokep> (For once. ;))
22:06:16 <testib1> Mook_as: I don't think we are going to rename anything that's exposed. getIMConversation wouldn't be very clear either
22:06:46 <testib1> Mook_as: and looking at the return time in the idl file probably clarifies things anyway :)
22:06:48 <aleth> I don't think UIConversation is misleading, so it's not as much of a problem
22:07:40 <testib1> "it was implemented at the time we were moving everything around to have something that works even without libpurple" this isn't true. It was implemented at the time we added support for contacts and needed an easy way for conversations to switch from a buddy to another.
22:08:45 <testib1> so it possibly predates the existence of the "prplI" prefix
22:09:38 <Mic> Ah, "UIConversations" confused me also not long ago (when experimenting with session stuff)
22:11:17 <testib1> we have lots of objects that can be referred too as "conversation" ;)
22:11:48 <aleth> A better way to deconfuse that would probably be a wiki page with a chart ;)
22:12:30 <aleth> Names can only do so much.
22:12:30 <testib1> the binding in conversation.xml, imIConversation (in imConversations.js), prplIConversation -> prplIConv{Chat,IM} (implemented in purple* files, in jsProtoHelper, and customized by JS protocols), + some more in the logger code
22:13:08 <testib1> there's also the conv.xml binding :-D
22:13:15 <clokep> aleth: Unfortunately bug 837 doesn't really bother me at all, as flo said. I'm unlikely to do that myself.
22:13:18 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=837 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Give new tabs opened via IRC commands focus
22:13:21 <clokep> testib1: And the convbrowser.xml binding too.
22:13:23 <Mic> Yes, the logger has fun things like ConversationLogs and LogConversations ;)
22:13:39 <testib1> clokep: convbrowser isn't a conversation :-P
22:13:51 <clokep> testib1: Yes, but in terms of names that can be confused...
22:13:57 <testib1> (no way to send messages, for example)
22:14:06 <aleth> clokep: It only bothers keyboard users... ;) Anyway, it can sit there until somebody takes pity on it
22:14:20 <testib1> Mic: yes, that's awful :(
22:14:30 <clokep> Thanks for looking at it. :) I'm guessing it was one of those "This might be an easy bug...oh wait...it's not at all."?
22:14:39 <aleth> Mic: That's almost funny :D
22:15:26 <aleth> clokep: Yeah... it seemed at first like there had to be an elegant solution
22:15:43 <testib1> Mic: I was wondering the other day if we should split that logger.js file in 2 separate files, as it seems to contain to completely unrelated things: 1. The logging code. 2. The code to access existing logs, with some xpcom interface implementations.
22:17:22 <Mic> Yes, that might make sense.
22:17:48 <testib1> I think that would de-confuse things a bit
22:18:47 * testib1 notes that Mook_as hasn't finished splitting purpleInit.cpp in meaningful files :-P
22:18:54 <Mook_as> :p
22:20:32 * Mic goes back to watching NCIS again ;)
22:20:34 <Mic> bbl
22:20:54 <clokep> NCIS, really? :P There's such better shows out there!
22:20:58 <testib1> btw, each time I try using IRC in my non-default profile, I wonder if I broke something when I see non-colored nicks
22:21:17 <EionRobb> ncis has bbl's in it now?
22:21:22 <clokep> Btw, if anyone gives me a review ping or anything. I probably won't get to it until next week. (Away starting tomorrow evening.)
22:22:00 <testib1> clokep: that means Friday+the week-end?
22:22:45 <testib1> + the middle of tomorrow's night in my timezone :)
22:23:16 * testib1 things Show Nick shouldn't stay an add-on much longer
22:23:18 <testib1> *thinks
22:23:40 <clokep> testib1: I'm leaving work early tomorrow.
22:24:38 <clokep> aleth: ....can't we just pass true if it's from a user event?
22:24:50 <clokep> I'm really confused at how we wouldn't know if it's from a user event or not. :(
22:24:56 <aleth> How do you know if it's from a user event?
22:26:01 <aleth> The JOIN handler in ircBase just does its thing...
22:26:44 <clokep> Ah, right in the /join command we don't open the conversation, we send the message and wait for a JOIN in return...that's what I was assuming wrong.
22:27:11 <clokep> Never mind, everything I've said is probably crazy then. :)
22:29:09 * clokep wonders what bugs he's working on...
22:30:50 <clokep> Hey EionRobb, totally speculative question...what's the earliest Pidgin 3.0.0 would be released? Is it still as far off as I think (1 year+)?
22:31:21 <EionRobb> sometime between now and a million years from now ;)
22:31:28 <EionRobb> no date is set
22:31:31 <testib1> clokep: I would say 4-6 months from now at least
22:31:56 <testib1> but that's a totally speculative answer :)
22:32:02 <clokep> I know that no date is set. :)
22:32:13 <clokep> Any speculation on when Instantbird 1.2 will be released?
22:32:15 <clokep> ;)
22:32:53 <testib1> clokep: those are depressing :(
22:33:11 <testib1> clokep: any good idea to never be in that situation again? ;)
22:33:28 <clokep> testib1: My first good idea is to not let the l10n infrastructure break again. :)
22:34:06 <clokep> Besides that I can't say I have any good ideas.
22:34:57 <testib1> clokep: I think we let it break only because we knew we were far away from a release, because everything was in a messy state ;)
22:35:23 <clokep> And then we landed JS-IRC and that slipped everything more.
22:35:38 <clokep> Maybe it'll rain this weekend and we can fix it? :-D
22:35:53 <aleth> There was also the big /chat reorg before that...
22:36:00 <testib1> clokep: and we couldn't decide to pref off JS-XMPP which definitely wasn't (and it still not) ready
22:36:18 <clokep> aleth: Was that also in 1.2? I thought that was 1.1?
22:36:32 <testib1> clokep: it's the key 1.2 change
22:36:33 <aleth> Was it? Maybe...
22:36:39 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com cancelled review?(florian@instantbird .org) for attachment 1531 on bug 944.
22:36:40 <clokep> Ah, I see.
22:36:41 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=944 enh, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Support for Bonjour
22:36:51 <testib1> clokep: 1.1 had the "conversations on hold" feature, + lots of twitter improvements
22:37:05 <testib1> + the interruption manager (maybe?)
22:37:19 <clokep> Right. And 1.0 had Twitter I know.
22:37:29 <clokep> + lots of other things from before I was involved?
22:37:31 <aleth> Rename 1.2 to 1.5 and it looks better ;)
22:37:45 <clokep> That's what we did from 0.3b1 to 1.0. ;)
22:38:22 <testib1> aleth: what about 1.2 renamed to 12 because it's based on Mozilla 12? ;)
22:38:53 <aleth> or 13, then release every 6 weeks? ;)
22:39:13 <aleth> 12 is already out of date...
22:39:25 <testib1> or decide that we won't release any more
22:39:49 <testib1> mark a nightly every week or so as approved, and decide people should just use that
22:39:49 <aleth> Nightlies for everyone :P
22:40:08 <clokep> We talked about doing "blessed nightlies" at one point.
22:40:11 <aleth> That could actually work.
22:40:18 <clokep> We haven't been doing a good job with regressions for that to work though. :/
22:40:29 <testib1> that would require rewriting a large part of the update system so that the "releases" happen at a different cadence for each locale, so that we only update when the l10n is at 100% for that locale
22:40:37 <aleth> Yes, it would have forced a long gap after JS-IRC 
22:40:55 <testib1> aleth: it would have forced us to not turn it on by default
22:41:15 <aleth> Right, that would have worked.
22:41:16 <testib1> aleth: we could easily have kept the libpurple irc prpl, and added a hidden pref to switch to JS-IRC
22:42:04 <clokep> It wasn't quite as ready as we hoped when we landed it. :(
22:42:22 <testib1> clokep: JS-XMPP is even worse I think :(
22:42:33 <testib1> because it's not maintained :(
22:43:44 <testib1> I may be able to spend a few days polishing JS-XMPP soon
22:44:33 <clokep> It's not that bad. :)
22:45:06 <Mook_as> hmm. stupid idea: implement the DNS SRV stuff in JS (using the code I had), but only use it if a hidden pref is set with the DNS server address?
22:45:17 <Mook_as> it sucks, but is better than not having anything at all?
22:45:21 <testib1> clokep: it's just that nobody here uses the things that are broken
22:45:26 <testib1> (otherwise we would have fixed them)
22:45:59 <testib1> Mook_as: DNS SRV isn't an issue for Instantbird; we use the libpurple prpl for generic XMPP
22:46:02 <clokep> Right.
22:46:09 <Mook_as> ah, right
22:46:43 <testib1> and for facebook chat, we already support (almost?) everything that the gateway supports
22:46:52 <testib1> it's really gtalk that has bad regressions
22:49:21 <testib1> I think the best solution for releasing at a sensible cadence would be to have the releases driven by someone who isn't a developer
22:49:33 <clokep> I mean, who uses GTalk, really? ;)
22:49:45 <testib1> and would have more interest in communicating to the world how great the new improvements are
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22:50:06 <testib1> than in sneaking in a last minute patch that will cause regressions for 2 weeks
22:50:25 <aleth> I wonder what happened to ecaron who wanted to revamp the website etc...
22:51:00 <testib1> clokep: I don't care what my contact icon is on gtalk, I don't bother moving contacts around between groups, I don't mind if the MUC topics aren't displayed, ...
22:51:07 <testib1> some real users may care ;)
22:51:20 <clokep> Right. :)
22:51:31 <aleth> Anything to do with icons, people care... a lot.
22:51:37 <aleth> ;)
22:51:39 <testib1> aleth: I think he got frustrated because of that new logo bug
22:51:49 <clokep> Yes, I'm pretty sure that was the issue.
22:51:54 <aleth> Ah.
22:52:09 <testib1> clokep: and I didn't even mention the lack of HTML formatting for incoming messages
22:52:43 <aleth> Admittedly if we did manage to find a good new logo it would give IB a significant boost... from a PR point of view it must be frustrating.
22:52:53 <testib1> aleth: and there doesn't seem to be anybody replying to tweets mentioning instantbird consistently
22:53:07 <testib1> clokep and me sometimes do, but not always
22:53:51 <testib1> aleth: having a great new logo would be great. Switching to a not-really-better logo would just annoy everybody.
22:54:01 <aleth> testib1: yes, I agree completely
22:54:51 <clokep> I try to reply on occasion....
22:54:52 <aleth> nevertheless... I can see why it might stop someone from redesigning other things as the logo is kind of central
22:55:53 <testib1> clokep: yes, we do reply when they ask a question
22:56:11 <testib1> clokep: but we don't try to engage with people on twitter like ecaron wanted to do, and did for a while
22:56:23 <clokep> Yeah.
22:56:38 <testib1> things like asking people talking about instantbird on twitter for the first time if there's anything we could to better, etc...
22:56:40 <clokep> Honestly...I'm not very interested in that. :)
22:56:52 <testib1> neither am I
22:56:57 <aleth> Twitter is such a terrible medium for it too
22:56:58 <clokep> I mean I'm interested in what they say, but doing it is a lot of effort and....
22:57:04 <testib1> but it would be useful if we want to increase the user base
22:57:08 <aleth> 1.2 and people coming via TB should both add some interest :)
22:57:25 <aleth> I think having to go back to using 1.1 now is an unpleasant thought ;)
22:57:29 <testib1> aleth: you think we could sneak in a "get instantbird" link inside tb? :)
22:57:50 <aleth> want colour? get IB :D
22:58:01 <testib1> :-D
22:58:11 <testib1> wanna change the message theme?
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22:58:48 <testib1> quick, time to change the subject, we are spied ;)
22:59:24 <testib1> more seriously thought, I don't know if the release of IM-in-Tb will have any impact on our download count
22:59:37 <aleth> Who knows...
22:59:53 <testib1> I guess it really depends how the Tb announcement is phrased
22:59:58 <aleth> Probably only to the extent that IB is mentioned in TB reviews
23:00:16 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout)
23:01:00 <testib1> if it says "Tb now supports instant messaging with the integration of technologies developed over years by the <a href="ib.com">Instantbird</a> team.", it will have more effect than if it just says "Tb now supports IM"
23:01:12 * clokep is guessing the latter.
23:01:56 <clokep> Mook_as: When you say use pkgconfig, is that things like "PKG_CHECK_MODULES"?
23:02:01 <testib1> can we try to have a "Tb integrates Ib" story on /. ? (just for the fun of reading the totally stupid comments ;))
23:02:13 <testib1> clokep: yes
23:02:26 <clokep> testib1: I'm almost surprised there hasn't been one about them adding IM.
23:03:16 <Mook_as> clokep: yes
23:04:48 <testib1> clokep: maybe that's an opportunity to write it ourselves?
23:05:55 <clokep> testib1: Maybe. :) I personally dislike /. (and reddit, and kind of social media in general...)
23:06:36 <testib1> clokep: and the press and journalists in general... ;)
23:06:48 <clokep> And don't get me started on users. ;)
23:07:26 <testib1> bah, they are sometimes so clueless that it can be lovely :)
23:07:55 <testib1> I find clueless people harder to accept when they pretend they know enough to write about what others should do :)
23:08:13 <testib1> (ie when they are journalists / bloggers / ...)
23:08:39 <clokep> Is there a way in hg to revert all changes that are only whitespace?
23:09:04 <clokep> I find it very unforgivable to publish incorrect information as a professional journalist.
23:09:49 <testib1> clokep: apparently they don't need us to forgive them though, they seem quite self satisfied ;)
23:11:16 <testib1> I'm still looking for an idea to debug bug 1422 and bug 1355 :-/
23:11:20 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1422 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Connection timeouts don't seem to work
23:11:21 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1355 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, unable to establish any network connection until a restart of the application
23:14:21 <clokep> :(
23:14:26 <clokep> I wish I had steps to reproduce.
23:14:38 <clokep> All I know is that AIM usually stops working after I've been connected a long time.
23:17:47 <testib1> I'm wondering if I should just use my debug build with my default profile all the time and socket logging until we understand the situation
23:18:22 <testib1> these logs tend to be huge though, so I'm not sure we would be able to find anything in them
23:18:36 <testib1> especially if the log is several hours long
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23:22:36 <clokep> If you think it would help...that would probably be a good idea. :)
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23:30:02 <testib1> clokep: well, I'm not sure. I just don't have any other idea :(
23:30:48 <clokep> testib1: I wish we had str so we could at least find a regression range.
23:31:27 <testib1> I think I first noticed the AIM issue while testing the moz11 update.
23:31:47 <testib1> nobody ever complained about any of these network issues before we had moz11 on nightlies
23:32:34 <clokep> Hmm....could be that, yes.
23:33:12 <testib1> at the time, after checking that I would use AIM correctly on another profile, I decided the AIM servers were just flacky
23:33:17 <testib1> *could
23:33:35 <testib1> and pushed the moz11 update :)
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23:37:40 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/17172355cb63 - Patrick Cloke - Bug 1485 - Use the XMPP icons from chat/ instead of purple/, r=fqueze.
23:38:00 <clokep> testib1: Ah, right. that's familiar now. :)
23:38:29 <testib1> flacky AIM servers are familiar? :-D
23:38:43 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1485 to FIXED.
23:38:46 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1485 tri, --, 1.2, clokep, RESO FIXED, Use the XMPP icons from chat/ instead of purple/
23:38:48 <clokep> You having that issue is familiar. :-D
23:39:35 <clokep> Well AIM isn't working for me now if there's something to try. :P
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23:41:27 <testib1> when I look at the process of my instantbird nightly in the task monitor, I can see that there are 5 opened sockets to my socks proxy
23:42:07 <testib1> even though the connection to the proxy should be long dead, as the SSH tunnel is closed
23:42:38 <testib1> 5 is the number of JS-IRC+JS-XMPP accounts I have stuck in the "connecting..." state
23:42:40 <testib1> I wonder if that's related
23:42:52 <testib1> (there are also libpurple and twitter accounts stuck in the connecting state)
23:44:08 <testib1> I would be quite willing to assume that there's something in socket.jsm that necko doesn't like, as believing necko is generally broken is difficult, given that Firefox works.
23:44:24 <clokep> Right.
23:44:28 <testib1> and XHR is also used extensively for Firefox, so I don't suspect http.jsm too much
23:44:47 <clokep> It wouldn't surprise me either, just confusing that it seems libpurple + sockets + http all break at once.
23:45:12 <testib1> libpurple/purplexpcom is definitely not to blame, as mconley experienced it on earlybird with twitter at least once
23:45:28 <testib1> (he reported the issue with twitter, but he probably had a gtalk or irc account connected at the same time)
23:45:43 <testib1> clokep: it seems the application is unable to open any socket
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23:46:56 <clokep> Right. :-/
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23:51:15 <clokep> Mook_as: so it would be something like |PKG_CHECK_MODULES(AVAHI, avahi-client avahi-glib, PURPLE_AVAHI=1)| and then I could use @AVAHI_LIBS@ for the -lavahi-client, etc.
23:51:40 <Mook_as> sounds about right, though I don't _actually_ know the syntax :p
23:51:54 <Mook_as> I just know that macro exists, and autoconf manual probably has docs :p
23:52:58 <clokep> Mook_as: Yes, that's what I came up w/ after reading the docs! But you seemed to be knowledgable. ;)
23:53:36 <Mook_as> don't ask me, I'm just good at faking! :p
23:54:27 <clokep> Bah.
23:54:37 <clokep> It seems to work, it seems too easy though. ;)
23:54:45 <testib1> Good night
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23:55:51 <clokep> It doesn't seem to have anything for the includes though, unless that's the _CFLAGS?
23:58:38 <Mook_as> yeah, that;s CFLAGS (flags for the C compiler)
23:58:46 <Mook_as> it may also have CXXFLAGS (for the C++ compiler)
23:58:48 <clokep> Ah, interesting...