#instantbird log on 05 18 2012

All times are UTC.

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02:13:58 <clokep> If you don't read Eion Robb's blog... http://eion.robbmob.com/blog/2012/05/17/summer-of-code-2012/
02:14:44 <EionRobb> I don't
02:15:43 <douglaswth> lol
02:16:38 <clokep> EionRobb: Well I hope you don't read your own blog after writing it...that'd be a little...conceited? :P
02:17:14 <douglaswth> yeah, he might find typos
02:18:44 <EionRobb> proof reading is just ineffiecient [sic] ;)
02:21:27 <clokep> I look forward to what you guys find though! :)
02:21:34 <clokep> Let u sknow if we can help out or whatever.
02:22:54 <EionRobb> :)
02:24:00 <EionRobb> any other stats you're interested in?
02:33:09 <clokep> I mean in general we're just interested in what people use, but the based on locale one we're very interested in. :)
02:34:31 <clokep> aleth: So...my tree is a mess right now and I think I need to rebuild it. :( Sorry I haven't reviewd your patch yet...
02:48:45 <instant-buildbot> build #500 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/500
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04:27:13 <instant-buildbot> build #593 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/593
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06:03:25 <instant-buildbot> build #486 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/486
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08:56:48 <flo> EionRobb: knowing how soon the old operating systems die could also be interesting. Are there still a significant usage of Pidgin on Windows 2000? On Windows XP without service pack?
08:57:05 <flo> to determine if it's worth keeping old code specifically targeting theses OSes in place
08:59:53 <flo> for Instantbird I would also say on Mac OS X 10.5 and on PPC, but I doubt Pidgin's stats could be of any help for that
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09:01:19 <EionRobb> yep, we've got OS and OS version detection in there already, and he's working on the arch detection at the moment
09:03:59 <flo> thanks
09:04:15 <flo> your blog post said "see what operating systems Pidgin runs on primarily" so I wasn't sure if you planned on covering details such as which SP is installed
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09:25:17 <flo> I wonder how difficult it would be to make the keyboard work on the new protocol list of the account wizard
09:25:50 <flo> I'm creating a test twitter account and I typed "T" several times on my keyboard before accepting that it wasn't going to work and I had to use the arrows to select the twitter item
09:25:53 <EionRobb> totally impossible.  not even worth attempting ;)
09:26:12 <flo> right, I won't attempt it myself :-P
09:28:05 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1438 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
09:28:08 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1438 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Typing the beginning of a protocol name listed in the top protocols should select it
09:37:52 <instantbot> New Core - General bug 1439 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
09:37:55 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1439 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Make unambiguous command prefixes work as command aliases
09:39:05 <flo> hmm, the "would you like to remember password for this website" prompt for the twitter oauth dialog is annoying.
09:39:38 <flo> Should we somehow turn off the password manager? (is it even possible now that we use it for accounts?) Or add the twitter website hostname in the list of "never remember passwords for this website" list automatically?
09:41:15 <aleth> Maybe have a central pref for "Remember passwords", set by default, and if it is not unset by the user remember passwords automatically (sane for most users I think)?
09:41:47 <flo> aleth: the whole point of OAuth is that we are supposed to not store the user's password
09:42:05 <aleth> Oh, OK.
09:42:18 <aleth> Then I am confused - why is there a question then?
09:42:47 <flo> would be nice to know
09:42:53 <aleth> If we don't need to store it, why store it?
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09:46:28 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1440 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
09:46:30 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1440 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, The password manager prompt to store the password entered in the Twitter OAuth dialog is annoying
09:46:33 <flo> it seems that I'm going to file more bugs than I will fix today ;)
09:46:52 <aleth> One of those days...
09:47:12 <flo> I'm looking for steps to reproduce the twitter issue (tweets not being sent until an account is disconnected)
09:47:23 <flo> it would be awesome to have a reliable way to reproduce that
09:47:40 <flo> now that I know the OAuth dialog not showing issue is unrelated
09:48:21 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1441 filed by aletheia2@fastmail.fm.
09:48:23 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1441 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Don't automatically focus status editbox on changing status
09:49:39 <aleth> I've never encountered most of the tweets not sent/unable to reconnect issues. I wonder if there is an OS-specific element or if it's merely related to flaky connections.
09:49:49 <flo> aleth: as phrased that bug is wontfix/invalid
09:50:00 <flo> you are proposing to remove the only discoverable way to edit one's status message
09:50:35 <aleth> flo: Well, then one should discuss that further ;)
09:50:50 <aleth> Making something discoverable shouldn't get in the way
09:50:50 <flo> aleth: I've had it only with a non-flacky connection (= at the office or at my parents), after being connected for several hours with 20 or so accounts connected at once :-/
09:51:18 <flo> aleth: I think your valid point there is "reusing a previous status with its associated status message should be easier"
09:51:55 <aleth> My main point is I find it frustrating every time I change status with the mouse that I find myself stuck on that textbox, wildly clicking around.
09:52:25 <aleth> To the extent that I change status less often than I otherwise would.
09:52:30 <flo> just don't do it? :-p
09:53:09 <flo> either don't click (there's a timeout to validate the new status if you don't do anything with the textbox for a few seconds; or you can press enter to validate immediately)
09:53:16 <aleth> Sure, I get that.
09:53:31 <aleth> But I suspect that I'm not the only one with that instinctive response.
09:53:35 <flo> or don't set the status with the mouse (I do it only with the /away command, which is probably a good indication that the clickable selector sucks)
09:53:46 <aleth> Exactly.
09:54:15 <flo> I would go further: having to find on which screen the list is displayed before changing the status sucks ;)
09:54:28 <flo> but I think on Windows7 it's easy to change the status from the dock icon
09:54:45 <flo> that whole jumplist thing people got enthusiastic about a few months ago :)
09:54:57 <aleth> Yes, the tray works.
09:58:03 <aleth> I don't have a good proposal though, I agree.
10:01:11 <flo> if you want something clickable, having in the list of status types a list of previously used status with both the status type and status message, so that you can do just a click to set both would help
10:01:21 <flo> but that would be confusing if there was a status type used without status message
10:01:45 <flo> I would like some completion on the status message textbox, so that reentering a previously used status message becomes very easy
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10:07:53 <aleth> I'm not sure people actually use the status message that way. At least from what I've seen (who knows if it generalizes) there are two camps of people
10:08:28 <aleth> The first almost never sets a status message, and if they do (rarely) it's a one off indication like "don't bother me atm"
10:09:27 <aleth> The second changes status message frequently, clearly enjoys doing that, with little messages and one-liners. Nothing to do with "status" in that case, and usually doesn't change either when they change status.
10:11:11 <aleth> Neither group would be particularly interested in reusing old status messages. And for both setting a status message is pretty much decoupled from the act of changing status.
10:11:41 <clokep> aleth: I don't see how it gets in the way at all.
10:12:41 <clokep> OK, it focuses the textbox...but if you don't do that...what are you expecting it to focus?
10:13:11 <aleth> Nothing in particular. I expect it just to change the status.
10:13:55 <aleth> I'm saying (and this might be based on a skewed sample) that "setting a new status message" seems to be disconnected from "changing status" for most. Which is not what you'd expect I guess.
10:14:44 <aleth> Anyway, maybe it's a non-issue. Definitely minor ;)
10:15:28 * clokep is tempted to close that as invalid.
10:15:36 <clokep> Even if it's disconnected, I just don't see how it's in the way.
10:15:48 <clokep> You say you're floundering with you mouse afterward...but why is that?
10:17:11 <aleth> For no real reason, like I said above. Just that intuitively the fact that the textbox is highlighted makes me think "oh I have to enter something here or close that somehow or my status won't change". Obviously that's not the case, and maybe it's just me, but still...
10:21:09 <clokep> OK, but that's not what the bug says at all. :)
10:21:38 <aleth> Yeah, seems I explained it badly.
10:22:11 <flo> aleth: the problem of status messages is hard, because there are 2 different expectations depending on the client people used before
10:22:34 <flo> either they see the status message as an explanation of the status type they have set, so setting the status message each time the status type changes is logical
10:22:56 <flo> or they see the status message as a random thought that is completely disconnected with their current status type.
10:23:58 <flo> aleth: both groups of people are generally fully convinced that everybody sees it like they do; because typically their group of friends and contacts have used the same clients as they did (because they were using the same IM networks)
10:24:01 <aleth> Probably pretty much the two groups I noticed above. Interesting about it being related to the client, I wonder if the latter is a MSN thing.
10:24:18 <flo> MSN doesn't have a status message concept
10:24:52 <flo> they added relatively recently (that's several years ago now; but several years after MSN became popular) a "personal message" concept, which is mostly a place for a random message
10:25:08 <flo> AIM has used the status message as strong linked to the status type from the beginning
10:25:37 <flo> Gtalk seems to be a little bit in the middle
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10:26:35 <flo> (it proposes to change the status message when changing the status type, but it lists all frequently used status messages for all status type)
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10:28:11 <flo> also, by default on gtalk the status message is shared between all connected client
10:28:12 <flo> s
10:28:35 <aleth> I wonder if that's an XMPP thing.
10:28:43 <flo> it's a google extension
10:29:07 <flo> but I think all official Google clients hide the concept of resources, so users can only have one visible status message at once...
10:29:29 <aleth> Right.
10:31:28 <flo> I have a Gtalk account with a wrong password. When I started Instantbird, it was set as "auto-login". Since I started, I unchecked that box. When my status was switched to away, the account attempted to reconnect itself automatically.
10:31:28 <flo> (
10:32:04 <flo> uh!
10:32:32 <flo> the message before "uh!" was ":(". On my other instantbird it appeared as only "("
10:32:45 <flo> well, for instantbot too: http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/today#m207
10:33:47 <flo> Sending:
10:33:48 <flo> PRIVMSG #instantbird :(
10:33:48 <flo> Source File: resource:///modules/socket.jsm Line: 235
10:33:50 <flo> clokep: how does that feel?
10:34:02 <flo> should we add a ":" prefix before all outgoing irc messages?
10:34:32 <aleth> It used to do that, this is a recent change I think.
10:34:42 <aleth> Unexpected side-effect.
10:35:17 <clokep> flo: Ah a special case I don't check for. :)
10:35:17 <aleth> Need to check the message doesn't start with a ":" ;)
10:35:21 <clokep> My bug, I'll fix it.
10:35:28 <clokep> (Like literally right now.)
10:35:34 <flo> thanks! :)
10:35:55 * flo thinks that deserves unit testing
10:38:19 <clokep> So I have a patch, but I can't test it because I'm building. ;)
10:39:22 <flo> do we have a way to xpcshell test that without needing a fake IRC server?
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10:40:49 <clokep> Writing a ircd.js is on my TODO list...although I'm not fully sure of the concept of how you test with one. :-S
10:41:17 <flo> if it's an infinite-length todo list, that doesn't tell us if it's going to happen ;)
10:41:54 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm set the Resolution field on bug 1441 to INVALID.
10:41:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1441 min, --, ---, nobody, RESO INVALID, Don't automatically focus status editbox on changing status
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10:42:56 <instantbot> New Core - IRC bug 1442 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
10:42:58 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from the wind for attachment 1484 on bug 1442.
10:43:00 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1442 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, IRC messages starting with a : and no spaces lose the :
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10:43:16 <clokep> flo: The bigger issue is I just don't get the concept, how does it test anything? It has to know the "correct" result ahead of time?
10:43:27 <clokep> That review is up for grabs by aleth or flo I figure.
10:43:35 <clokep> (Maybe aleth since he knows the changes I made last time?)
10:47:25 * clokep likes changes that are twice as many comments as lines of code. ;)
10:49:11 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm granted review for attachment 1484 on bug 1442.
10:49:14 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1442 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, IRC messages starting with a : and no spaces lose the :
10:54:13 <clokep> Thanks aleth.
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11:03:58 <aleth> So, I added to a browserid bug the other day, now it appears Persona is tracking their bugs on github?
11:06:16 <aleth> oops, wrong channel
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11:38:47 <clokep_work> aleth: Maybe wrong channel...but I dislike that certain Mozilla projects are tracking stuff outside of the Mozilla ecosystem. :(
11:39:01 <clokep_work> But I guess they're trying to get other people involved...
11:40:08 <aleth> clokep_work: It just made me wonder whether that bug on bugzilla was even getting noticed
11:49:59 <clokep_work> Was it? :)
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12:05:55 <flo> bah, don't get me started on that github vs bugzilla thing :)
12:06:24 <flo> clokep_work: do we need to prepend a : if we are sending a string like "blah:blah"?
12:07:07 <clokep_work> flo: No.
12:07:11 <clokep_work> We shouldn't at least...
12:07:34 <flo> clokep_work: the idea I had for the test was that we probably have some code used for encoding the messages we are about to send, and some code used to decode the messages we received, and it would be good to ensure that decode(encode(testMessage) == testMessages for all input values that seem potentially tricky
12:08:32 <clokep_work> flo: Yes that would be a good test. :)
12:09:14 <clokep_work> And no, we don't. The "trailing" (i.e. the parameter) is defined as : or " " or %x01-09 / %x0B-0C / %x0E-1F / %x21-39 / %x3B-FF (any octet except NUL, CR, LF, " " and ":")
12:09:27 <clokep_work> Which ends up being any octet except NUL CR or LF. ;)
12:10:49 <FireFly_TB> Moin!
12:12:08 <FireFly_TB> Is it possible, that the latest Nightly doesn’t run on windows? Or is it just me?
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12:15:04 <aleth> clokep_work: I can see no evidence of it so far ;)
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12:15:42 <aleth> I suppose some people just really like github.
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12:17:02 <FireFly_TB> IB hangs on startup, if I start with everything on „Sign-on at startup [✔]“
12:17:51 <FireFly_TB> But starts fine if I connect them one by one …
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12:18:57 <flo> FireFly_TB: can you describe what you mean by "hangs" a bit more?
12:19:41 <clokep_wp7> aleth: i expect that that's it. I personally can't stand the "github workflow"
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12:20:28 <aleth> Personally I think it adds another layer of overhead...
12:21:13 <clokep_wp7> Yes. It's not easier than attching patches in my mind.
12:22:07 <clokep_wp7> Anyway, meeting now. :-)
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12:22:18 <aleth> Huh, I see there is a complete clone of mozilla-central too. I wonder how that works.
12:24:06 <FireFly_TB> I see the main IB window. The mouse changes to the busy icon and the window is not responsive. If I click into the window it greys out, if I try to close the window the windows kill dialogue comes up.
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12:26:06 <flo> FireFly_TB: 0 or 100% of CPU?
12:26:33 <FireFly_TB> no 0% for instandbird
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12:29:43 <FireFly_TB> it is not triggered by a single account 
12:30:38 <aleth> FireFly_TB: If you start IB with the -jsconsole parameter, do you see any errors in the error console before it hangs?
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12:32:50 <FireFly_TB> aleth: hangs before any error
12:33:15 <Optimizer> flo aleth  It would be really nice if there would be tabs on top just like firefox
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12:36:10 <FireFly_TB> If I choose  ICQ, facebook, IRC1, IRC2, twitter and GTalk to sign-on at start-up: 100% freeze
12:36:12 <FireFly_TB> If I choose ICQ, facebook, IRC1 it freezes sometimes,
12:36:12 <FireFly_TB> If I choose IRC2, twitter, GTalk no freeze so far.
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12:37:08 <aleth> Optimizer: What do you mean? There is nothing above the tabs.
12:37:15 <Optimizer> the title bar
12:37:48 <aleth> Oh right, that doesn't work on Linux, so I wouldn't notice it :-/
12:38:04 <Optimizer> Oh, linux has the tabs on the very top ?
12:38:19 <aleth> No, FF doesn't write into the titlebar on Linux
12:38:27 <FireFly_TB> Optimizer: You use the conversation window maximised?
12:38:28 <Optimizer> oh
12:38:58 <aleth> Optimizer: If you like, you can file a bug
12:39:04 <Optimizer> On windows if IB can draw its own title bar (that is onll the right side close buttons), tabs on top can be acheived
12:39:23 <Optimizer> I think its bigger than one bug :P
12:39:57 <aleth> We track enhancement requests as bugs too
12:40:05 <Optimizer> i know
12:40:08 <Optimizer> i meant
12:40:23 <Optimizer> that it is a big feature and will probably be broken into many bugs
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12:40:48 <aleth> You can file multiple bugs if you like ;) or attach patches :P
12:41:25 <Optimizer> I already spent a lot of time for this add-on, I on a gsoc duty here ;P
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12:45:17 <flo> Optimizer: the gsoc duty isn't 24hours a day ;)
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12:45:52 <Optimizer> Neither can I work 24 hrs :) (I Wish I could)
12:46:26 <aleth> Well, file a bug anyway, maybe somebody else will fix it.
12:47:47 <aleth> Feuerfliege: What if you choose everything apart from ICQ? (i.e. no libpurple protocols)
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12:49:27 <flo> FireFly_TB: is this after an update? If so, can you try moving the updated build to another folder, and downloading the latest nightly, and try with that? It could be an update failure
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12:59:36 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1443 filed by scrapmachines@gmail.com.
12:59:40 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1443 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Tabs should be drawn in Title Bar on Windows
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13:16:59 <FireFly_TB> flo: works, thx.
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13:24:20 <clokep_work> aleth: Someone keeps it updated, I think it actually has the old CVS history grafted onto it too.
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13:25:33 * clokep_work dislikes tabs in the title bar...
13:29:55 <aleth> If someone wanted to add that feature, I guess a context menu checkbox like in FF wouldn't hurt anyone.
13:30:50 <aleth> Btw there was indeed a more active open bug on the same issue on github. So it seems for the future one has to check whether a mozilla team is actually using bugzilla.
13:31:30 <flo1> aleth: you can also decide to just ignore the mozilla teams that work in closed environments ;)
13:32:40 <flo1> oh, it's strange to not have show nick
13:32:50 <flo1> maybe that add-on should become the default behavior some day :)
13:33:13 <flo1> so that message themes can adapt the appearance of nicks as they want
13:33:19 <clokep_work> flo1: I'd advocate that, I find it extremely useful.
13:33:45 <flo1> clokep_work: I don't see it as useful; I notice it only if I'm not a new profile ;)
13:33:53 <flo1> s/not//
13:34:13 <flo1> merging "not on my default profile" and "on a new profile" got confusing :-S
13:34:30 <aleth> It seems to be a love-it-or-hate-it feature though
13:34:44 <flo1> have you heard about people hating it?
13:34:58 <flo1> I think the most common complaint was "it doesn't go well with some custom themes"
13:35:00 <aleth> Here on IRC, when I suggested they try it
13:35:16 <flo1> by default we would just add a span node with a class
13:35:26 <flo1> the message theme would do the rest
13:35:57 <flo1> I think if we integrate it by default we should make it look consistent for join/left messages. Currently nicks are highlighted in only one of them
13:36:03 <aleth> I'm not saying I'm not in favour (I use it after all), but what if you want to use bubbles without show nick?
13:36:15 <flo1> (because the nick is removed too soon or added too late in the list; I can never remember which one :))
13:36:31 <flo1> aleth: or use bubbles without Time Bubbles.
13:36:41 <flo1> answer: add-ons! :)
13:36:50 <aleth> You had complaints about time bubbles? :S
13:37:03 <flo1> yeah, some people really dislike it
13:37:15 <flo1> mostly because of the "moving while the window is in the background" part
13:37:29 <flo1> myk said it makes him feel sick
13:38:32 <flo1> I know idechix also really dislikes it
13:38:57 <clokep_work> flo1: I think it could be useful to have message themes have some basic options. :(
13:39:06 <flo1> I haven't clearly understood if there was a real reason other than "don't change what I did if it's not with my idea"
13:39:15 <flo1> clokep_work: there's a bug on file for that
13:39:16 <aleth> Yes, instead of variants...
13:39:29 <flo1> if someone wants to work on message themes someday...
13:39:40 <aleth> flo1: Oh, is that what the "classic bubbles" message style is about?
13:39:45 <clokep_work> Yes, because then (e.g. for Bubbles), you have a color option, an option to show avatars, an option to show show nick, etc. Instead of the ! of those.
13:39:48 <flo1> if I start playing with them again, the thing I would be the most interested in supporting would be installing them without restart :)
13:39:54 <flo1> aleth: yeah
13:40:01 <aleth> flo1++
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13:40:08 <clokep_work> (Where ! means "factorial" in this case, not "not" :))
13:41:03 <flo1> aleth: by the way, I think his reaction of creating an add-on for the old version was great; whatever the real reason for not liking Time Bubbles was
13:41:20 <aleth> Sure, that's what they are for.
13:41:33 <aleth> I just wondered what the difference was a while back when I saw it.
13:42:15 <flo1> so I'm talking from my linux box until I decide if I restart my default Instantbird on the Macbook or can do anything to figure out why only the Twitter accounts are willing to reconnect
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13:42:44 <flo1> all the others are stuck on "connecting..."
13:43:07 <clokep_work> :-/
13:43:21 <clokep_work> I wish we at least had a way to reproduce that so we could find a regression range.
13:43:33 <flo1> can we make links in quit messages not appear in blue? Not sure why I notice it much more on this screen
13:43:49 <flo1> clokep_work: this issue is probably reproduceable
13:43:51 <aleth> flo1: Use Bubbles-Light :P
13:44:04 <flo1> aleth: what are the differences?
13:44:16 <clokep_work> flo1: I don't understand why you don't like links in quit messages. :(
13:44:21 <flo1> clokep_work: but unfortunately I think it's not the same as the really annoying bug
13:44:26 <aleth> Different link colour in system messages, different action message styling, different context messages
13:44:42 <aleth> but I wasn't completely serious. Just if you want to see an alternative look.
13:44:47 <flo1> clokep_work: I don't understand the link being blue -> the only thing really visible when the rest of the message is light gray on white
13:45:11 <clokep_work> flo1: Ah, so I only read half your statement. :( My bad. I agree with you.
13:45:15 <flo1> clokep_work: and now I know why I didn't notice as much on my mac: the nick was also colored by shownick, and the nick was the important information! :)
13:45:16 <clokep_work> It should be a darker grey or something.
13:45:36 <clokep_work> (I thought you just said "can we make links in quit messages not appear?")
13:45:40 <flo1> and scratch that, it's in the quit messages that shownickdoesn't work :-D
13:46:32 <clokep_work> aleth: Is Bubbles Light yours?
13:46:36 <aleth> Yes
13:47:34 <clokep_work> Maybe some of those things should be brought into Bubbles then? ;)
13:47:51 <aleth> Only if there is consensus on them
13:47:51 * clokep_work goes to find a screenshot.
13:47:56 <flo1> by the way, another improvement I would like to make to bubbles: when the window is really small, drop the bubbles, keep only the colored backgrounds and some horizontal borders; reduce the paddings significantly
13:48:10 <flo1> I think bubbles currently sucks for small windows, and it's annoying for the default theme :)
13:48:20 <aleth> True, that would be nice.
13:48:36 <clokep_work> Can we file bugs to track all this stuff?
13:48:52 <flo1> we can :)
13:49:06 <flo1> I tend to file bugs for my own ideas only when I expect someone is likely to work on them
13:49:12 <aleth> Btw is the unread ruler behaviour now OK for everyone?
13:49:35 <flo1> aleth: I can't tell. The latest changes are too recent to know
13:50:15 <flo1> I've been frustrated at least 2 or 3 times by not finding the unread ruler in the last few days, but I don't know exactly the situation (it was typically when coming back to the computer after being physically away from it for a few hours)
13:50:55 <flo1> zooming the conversation (I'm more than 1 meter away from this screen, so I zoomed in a bit) should also zoom the textbox :-S
13:51:46 <aleth> flo1: yes, that's part of why I am asking, as we have recently added more situations where the ruler is /removed/
13:52:12 <clokep_work> flo1: Well, I feel like some of these would be fairly easy for someone else to fix and potential contributors might now know about them unless we file things we'd like to see. :-D
13:52:15 <aleth> otherwise, to find it, section scroll is useful ;)
13:52:16 <flo1> scrolling with the arrow keys is both very nice (because I don't have to grab the mouse, which is far from the keyboard on a desktop machine compared to the trackpad on a macbook) and sucky (because it's not smooth at all :-/)
13:52:36 <clokep_work> I remember looking (years ago) on BMO to find some "easier" bugs to look at, sometimes people want to help but don't have their own ideas. :)
13:52:49 <aleth> flo1: Does the textbox flicker for you too when scrolling with the keyboard?
13:53:48 <flo1> aleth: yes. But I hadn't noticed until you mentioned it. It's not really annoying
13:54:14 <aleth> flo1: OK, just checking. Not a real issue for me either. 
13:54:20 <flo1> only the cursor is really visibly flickering (and it's quite small, because of that zoom thing I just mentioned). The focus highlight seems to flicker too, but it's hardly noticeable
13:54:26 <aleth> clokep_work: Well, if you see Bubbles-Light features you want ported, that is easy.
13:55:01 <flo1> aleth: if I want links to be less visible in quit messages, but still as visible as now in topic messages, is this still easy?
13:55:04 <clokep_work> aleth: Are you using it? Could you put up a picture of the styling for links in system messages?
13:55:06 <aleth> Keyboard scrolling just doesn't use the FF smooth-scrolling algorithm I suppose
13:55:19 <flo1> aleth: sure
13:55:23 <aleth> clokep_work: You could just try it for yourself ;)
13:55:24 <flo1> aleth: but can we do that?
13:55:27 <aleth> Yes, it's easy.
13:55:37 <aleth> flo1: I think that would be a mozilla issue.
13:55:38 <clokep_work> aleth: I don't think Mibbit supports message styles. ;)
13:55:47 <aleth> clokep_work: Oh OK :-/
13:56:32 <flo1> clokep_work using mibbit at work feels like a bug anyway ;) 
13:59:15 <flo1> so what I'm currently seeing on my macbook is bug 1422
13:59:18 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1422 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Connection timeouts don't seem to work
13:59:38 <clokep_work> flo1: Yes, there's a few of them. :) We're getting close!
13:59:42 <aleth> clokep_work: https://minus.com/mBMhzXMI3/1f
14:00:20 <clokep_work> aleth: I like it. :)
14:00:20 <flo1> clokep_work: I hate these connection issues happening only with flaky connections
14:00:26 <flo1> but I hate unreproduceable bugs even more!
14:00:44 <clokep_work> flo1: Me too! Although I think the Twitter one happens when you're connected for like hours. :-S opposite issue.
14:01:23 <flo1> and I can tweet currently
14:01:41 <flo1> + we still have the issue of AIM not sending messages ;)
14:01:52 <clokep_work> Yes, that's been really annoying. :(
14:02:05 <clokep_work> Been making me use GTalk, but I don't have contact info for all my friends on there.
14:03:23 <flo1> + it's not really something we can seriously put on the release notes
14:03:28 <meh> does anyone have the link to the nightlies at hand?
14:03:35 <flo1> meh: it's in the topic
14:03:43 <meh> whyy toopicsss
14:03:49 <meh> sorry for my retardedness
14:04:10 <aleth> flo1: For special-casing topic messages you would need JS-IRC to add an additional class to those messages. 
14:04:30 <flo1> aleth: I suspect it already has different flags
14:04:33 <flo1> but I'm not sure
14:04:41 <meh> i'm starting the works on the torchat addon now, prepare to be overwhelmed by my questions
14:04:47 <clokep_work> flo1: I don't think so.
14:04:55 <aleth> Personally I don't think it needs special-casing anyway.
14:04:59 <clokep_work> I'm pretty sure they both call the systemMessage function.
14:05:12 <clokep_work> Personally I'd like it if we had links in the actual UI. :)
14:05:17 <clokep_work> (for topics that is)
14:05:22 <aleth> ^^ that would be better
14:05:30 <clokep_work> There's a bug about it.
14:05:36 <clokep_work> I actually like the Mibbit UI for topics. :-S
14:06:09 <aleth> clokep_work: Clickable links in the topic tooltip might be doable?
14:06:20 <aleth> Ah, no. forget what I said.
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14:10:08 <flo1> clokep_work: I tried to explain all the things that I know/have noticed in a comment in bug 1422. Does this seem actionable? I think we have 3 different issues mentioned in my comment in addition to the timeout issue that the bug is about
14:10:11 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1422 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Connection timeouts don't seem to work
14:10:26 <flo1> is there any additional information that could be gathered before I restart Instantbird?
14:11:34 <clokep_work> aleth: http://imgur.com/f2O7G
14:11:50 <clokep_work> flo1: Let me read it.
14:13:13 <clokep_work> flo1: I can't think of other things to try / get information on.
14:13:22 <clokep_work> Unless you want to try sending necko fofline and back online?
14:13:45 <flo1> what would that change?
14:14:37 <clokep_work> I'm not sure, just the only other related thing I can think of. :)
14:14:58 <clokep_work> And if we want to close that bug and file three more separate bugs that's OK. (Or we can put three patches in that bug, I don't really care.)
14:14:58 <flo1> I think the tricky detail about that situation is that at some point the network is back online, but the SSH tunnel isn't reestablished yet
14:15:04 <clokep_work> I think one of the other issues probably has a bug on file anyway.
14:16:01 <flo1> so I guess I could try killing my ssh tunnel without putting the network offline, and see what happens
14:16:11 <flo1> or maybe fix the other obvious issues first
14:16:23 <flo1> I'm tired of accounts stuck in the "disconnecting" state that force me to restart
14:16:27 <clokep_work> I like the idea of fixing the obvious issues first.
14:17:07 <Optimizer> I like flo1 's show nick, just that the fancy border and background is too appealing for me.
14:17:22 <flo1> by the way, that : bug you fixed this morning isn't in Thunderbird, right? It's a regression from a patch we landed just after the merge iirc
14:17:41 <flo1> Optimizer: which message theme do you use?
14:17:48 <flo1> ah, your own, right :)
14:17:57 <Optimizer> :D
14:17:59 <Optimizer> yes
14:18:01 <flo1> Optimizer: would you like to work on integrating show nick by default?
14:18:08 <Optimizer> and in that , I haev removed the background and border
14:18:13 <flo1> in a way that would let message styles handle nicks however they want
14:18:14 <Optimizer> okay :)
14:18:20 <Optimizer> but today only I found an exception in that
14:18:27 <aleth> Optimizer: The latest show nick version has options
14:18:30 <flo1> integrating the detection of irc channel names would also be nice :)
14:18:44 <flo1> aleth: have we ever released it on AIO?
14:18:50 <aleth> No idea.
14:18:55 <Optimizer> I downloaded the Show Nick extension just 2 days back, is there a newer version already ?
14:19:09 <aleth> Probably not? Maybe inline options don't work with 1.1?
14:19:28 <flo1> Optimizer: aleth patched it to have options, but I think that change is only in the hg addons repository
14:19:33 <flo1> aleth: that's quite possible
14:19:35 <clokep_work> flo1: Yes, WATCH/MONITOR was after the merge.
14:19:41 <flo1> clokep_work: ok, cool :)
14:19:58 <clokep_work> Optimizer: There's an updated version of Show Nick in the repos which has different styling options.
14:20:10 <Optimizer> oh, nice :)
14:20:14 <flo1> clokep_work: you liked the idea of the test. Is it the theoretical idea for the way to test it that you liked, or is it easily doable?
14:20:31 <flo1> I don't know if the relevant "encode" and "decode" functions can easily be used separately
14:20:33 <clokep_work> flo1: Both.
14:20:37 <flo1> s/function/pieces of code/
14:20:44 <clokep_work> I have to fakily make an account for one, but it should be fine.
14:20:46 <Optimizer> I found one bug in the code, if you have your conversation window closed, and reopen it after some time, so that some of the users are not present now, the self._nicks[nick] is undefined then
14:20:47 <flo1> clokep_work: so maybe I should wait to do that checkin then?
14:21:01 <clokep_work> flo1: If you'd like. I can at least test that code otnight. :)
14:21:21 <clokep_work> And no, we haven't rolled out any of the updates for 1.2 from the repo --> AIO yet.
14:21:33 <flo1> clokep_work: ok. If you can easily do it, that's great. Otherwise I'll just checkin the current patch to fix the regression :)
14:21:53 <flo1> I don't want us to have a policy of requiring unit tests for bug fixes; I think that's discouraging contributions
14:21:56 <clokep_work> flo1: Well I meant I can test that /the patch/ works, not necessarily write the entire infrastructure we talked about.
14:22:12 <clokep_work> flo1: That's why I stopped contributing to calendar. :-X
14:22:21 <flo1> clokep_work: ahah :)
14:22:40 <flo1> clokep_work: it's possibly why I stopped contributing (or dramatically reduced my contributions) to Firefox
14:22:52 <Optimizer> You guys hate Firefox ?
14:22:58 <flo1> unit test are greats, but are (IMHO) hard to produce by non employees
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14:23:14 <flo1> Optimizer: sure we all use IE exclusively.
14:23:24 <clokep_work> (That's sarcasm if you didn't get it. ;))
14:23:27 <flo1> Optimizer: (just kidding of course. What made you think that?)
14:23:49 <clokep_work> flo1: I agree, I write test code (often) at work. But it's different getting paid for it. :-D
14:23:53 <flo1> (although I've noticed clokep_work often has an IE user agent :-P)
14:23:54 <clokep_work> A lot less painful!
14:24:10 <Optimizer> you stopped contributing, think that mozilla works in closed environments etc.
14:24:11 <clokep_work> flo1: I use Firefox now at work.
14:24:22 <flo1> clokep_work: I think having to write 100 lines of test code removes the joy of fixing a bug with a single character change
14:24:40 <flo1> Optimizer: I'm a paid Thunderbird developer these days ;)
14:24:59 <flo1> Optimizer: so I'm clearly contributing a lot to Mozilla ;)
14:25:03 <clokep_work> Optimizer: I think the "closed environments" reference was to us complaining about people moving stuff to github, which is "closed off" from the Mozilla ecosystem IMO.
14:25:12 <Optimizer> oh
14:25:15 <Optimizer> m bad then
14:25:17 <Optimizer> my*
14:25:18 <flo1> clokep_work: sounds like great news :)
14:25:24 <clokep_work> Optimizer: And we try to keep flo busy contributing to Instantbird, we don't let him contribute other places anymore. ;)
14:25:38 <Optimizer> flo and flo1 are same right ?
14:25:46 <clokep_work> Yes. He's on his *nix box.
14:27:11 <clokep_work> So really off topic...how would I instantiate an array of pointers to unknown types (is that even possible?) in C++?
14:27:54 <flo1> clokep_work: create an array of void *?
14:28:03 <Optimizer> like malloc woks
14:28:06 <Optimizer> works*
14:28:26 <Optimizer> when you want to assign some memory space, just type cast into the required type
14:28:58 <clokep_work> flo1: For some reason I feel like it needs to be |void **blah;| not just |void *blah;|
14:29:03 * clokep_work is trying to wrap his head around this...
14:29:38 <flo1> wasn't there new[] to allocate an array of pointers?
14:30:04 <Optimizer> I think yesterday aleth was saying that my theme has to have the conversations window maximized ?
14:30:31 <Optimizer> I fixed that, and now the left space is only 150px wide (compared to 225 yesterday)
14:30:50 <Optimizer> even less if the nick fits in (around 130)
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14:33:26 <meh> are there issues with implementing a protocol in a bootstrap extension?
14:33:45 <clokep_work> meh: It can't be uninstalled currently I think.
14:33:55 <clokep_work> There's a bug open about it. SEarch for omegle.
14:34:18 <meh> ok, thanks
14:34:35 <Optimizer> how can one add event handlers to each tab of the conversation window (and to them also which will be opened later on)
14:35:33 <Optimizer> so that I can know when each tab gets focused and blurred
14:35:33 <aleth> Optimizer: I think that was clokep_work
14:35:59 <Optimizer> (by focus I mean that the tab is currently active, by blurred means the opposite)
14:36:51 <clokep_work> Why do you need to do that?
14:36:53 * flo feels better here :)
14:37:10 <Optimizer> So that i can mark the unread conversation in each tab
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14:38:33 <flo> Optimizer: just download a nightly build? :)
14:38:47 <flo> they do that by default these days ;)
14:38:50 <Optimizer> it does ? flo
14:39:04 <Optimizer> but then how does it work for a non default message theme ?
14:39:29 <flo> Optimizer: it puts an hr in the conversation
14:39:38 <Optimizer> hr ?
14:39:46 <Optimizer> let me check the build out 
14:44:26 <Optimizer> flo, while the build is being downloaded , please explain hr. and also tell the launch date of IB 1.2
14:47:21 <clokep_work> Optimizer: hr is a standard HTML element.
14:47:27 <clokep_work> "Soon".
14:50:20 <Optimizer> oh I was thinking of some hr class or something :D
14:51:35 <clokep_work> Nope. :)
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14:55:52 <aleth> Optimizer: https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Message_Styles:Differences_with_Adium has info on the hr
14:56:12 <Optimizer> (on a nightly build) The right side nick list is no longer colored ?
14:58:15 <clokep_work> Optimizer: Wait for someone to talk. ;)
14:58:34 <Optimizer> Ah
14:58:34 <Optimizer> )
14:58:34 <Optimizer> nice
14:58:49 <Optimizer> So if someone stops talking for sometime, will it again grey out ?
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14:59:58 <flo> Optimizer: no :)
15:00:10 <flo> we haven't been able to decide what the expected behavior would be for that
15:00:32 <Optimizer> Like mibbit does, puts a person in chatting list (above the nick list)
15:00:42 <Optimizer> and if he is not chatting for about 5 minutes
15:00:50 <Optimizer> puts him back to nicks list
15:01:04 <Optimizer> and I see the HR, 
15:01:08 <Optimizer> Nice :)
15:01:20 <Optimizer> it could do a 0 margin though
15:02:21 <flo> there are planed improvements for the margin
15:02:29 <flo> (a patch waiting in my review queue)
15:02:31 <Optimizer> so according o the behavior Nightly is showing, it should grey out the colored nick, after some time threshold :)
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15:02:40 <Optimizer> flo link ?
15:02:42 <flo> but custom message themes can customize the appearance of that hr
15:02:45 <aleth> Optimizer: Your message style can style it however it wants
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15:03:04 <Optimizer> hmm, true, but the margin-bottom is not required by default also
15:03:32 <Optimizer> The HR disappears after some time ?
15:03:40 <aleth> Optimizer: Currently the idea is that if someone has spoken in the visible conversation, their nick is coloured. A 5 minute timeout sounds annoying to me.
15:04:14 <aleth> That might change in the future, I don't know. It's one of the potential headaches for infinite scroll.
15:04:22 <Optimizer> But it would give a clear idea on the status of a nick (whether he is idle on chat or active) just by looking at the nick list
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15:04:40 <aleth> Optimizer: Only in very busy channels.
15:05:27 <aleth> It's one of those things where it's hard to find a default that works for most people.
15:06:01 <Optimizer> hmm
15:06:03 <Optimizer> true
15:06:18 <Optimizer> What about the idea of putting the colored nicks on top of greyed ones ?
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15:06:30 <Optimizer> If a channel has too many users, the coloring might not help at all
15:06:51 <aleth> At some point someone was going to write an add-on for that.
15:06:59 <aleth> Just like there is an add-on for sorting the contact list.
15:07:08 <Optimizer> and I just noticed, even my theme is working more efficiently in Nightly
15:07:25 <aleth> There are lots of improvements :)
15:07:30 * flo wonders what "working more efficiently" means
15:07:33 <Optimizer> I will eventually add that feature in my Mibbit themes (coz mibbit also does that )
15:07:51 <Optimizer> take for instance this message : mmkmou [Instantbir@C87D1038.63D708CC.93058B8E.IP] entered the room.
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15:08:09 <flo> what about it?
15:08:23 <Optimizer> in 1.1 version , acc to my rules , only "entered the room." was being colored green
15:08:33 <Optimizer> but in 1.2
15:08:40 <flo> ah :)
15:08:43 <Optimizer> the whole line (except nick's name)
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15:11:21 <Optimizer> any tips on the sorting the nicks list ?
15:13:54 <clokep_work> Optimizer: I think sorting the nicks list needs some core code changes.
15:14:35 <Optimizer> oh
15:14:57 <Optimizer> I just noticed, I am getting this error  : Timestamp: 5/18/2012 8:43:46 PM
15:14:57 <Optimizer> Error: gAccountManager is not defined
15:14:59 <Optimizer> Source File: chrome://mibbit/content/helper.js
15:14:59 <Optimizer> Line: 51
15:15:49 <Optimizer> and earlier the gAccountManager was accessible through this script : application/javascript" src="chrome://instantbird/content/accounts.js
15:16:00 <Optimizer> which I was including using an overlaying xul
15:16:21 <Optimizer> and am now also, just that the gAccountManager is not available any more :(
15:16:59 <flo> Optimizer: I forgot to mentioned when I looked at the code of your add-on that you really didn't want to use that accounts.js file
15:17:02 <flo> *mention
15:17:15 <Optimizer> why ?
15:17:27 <flo> it's the UI of the account manager
15:17:30 <flo> you don't want that in the conversations window
15:17:56 <Optimizer> I am only using the gAccountManager variable from accounts.js 
15:18:13 <clokep_work> You can access that information other ways though I think...
15:18:26 <Optimizer> I tries Services.accounts.getAccounts()
15:18:27 <flo> Optimizer: you are probably also causing the onload handlers to be executed
15:18:54 <Optimizer> I was asking this before also, how to access the accounts, and get the currently being used account
15:19:01 <Optimizer> but did not get any good reply
15:19:22 <flo> ah, accounts.js doesn't seem to add any onload handler, you are lucky
15:19:34 <flo> Optimizer: you didn't ask a good question
15:19:50 <flo> Optimizer: the reply you got was that "currently being used account" doesn't make sense
15:20:03 <flo> Optimizer: we told you to get the account from the conversation object
15:20:23 <Optimizer> okay then I must have missed out
15:20:30 <Optimizer> please tell again 
15:22:11 <flo> I've 2 twitter accounts that have been connected for 5+ hours on the linux box, and they are still able to send tweets :(
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15:26:43 <Optimizer> anyone ?
15:27:26 <flo> try asking a question that makes sense? :)
15:28:00 <flo> don't force people to make assumptions about what you could be talking about
15:30:12 <Optimizer> (
15:30:14 <Optimizer> okay
15:30:25 <Optimizer> say I have 3 accounts associated with IB
15:30:31 <Optimizer> gtalk, IRC and FB
15:30:37 <Optimizer> I am not connected to gtalk and FB
15:30:45 <Optimizer> and am right now using IRC
15:30:57 <Optimizer> so IRC is the currently being used account
15:31:10 <clokep_work> But you can use all three at the same time.
15:31:17 <Optimizer> and that too , I have 2 IRC accounts, Optimizer and Opti, of which I am using Optimizer
15:31:21 <flo> which would be the common case I think :)
15:31:30 <Optimizer> okay so for common case
15:31:37 <Optimizer> all of accounts are connected
15:31:42 <Optimizer> but I want the account for this
15:31:44 <flo> Optimizer: I usually have ~20 connected accounts
15:31:45 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm cancelled review?(florian@instantbird .org) for attachment 1468 on bug 1375.
15:31:46 <Optimizer> converstion
15:31:48 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1375 min, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Followup: Unread ruler CSS and Bubbles margin improvements
15:32:33 <Optimizer> lets say by javascript, I want to join a channel using this account
15:32:54 <Optimizer> so how will I get that
15:33:28 <flo> Optimizer: where are you currently adding code?
15:33:34 <flo> what are the easily reachable objects?
15:33:48 <Optimizer> all the objects an addon can reach
15:33:58 <flo> Optimizer: not an answer
15:34:09 <Optimizer> getBrowser()
15:34:13 <Optimizer> as a root 
15:34:17 <flo> Optimizer: an add-on can have code in any window, in some modules, some back-end components
15:34:29 <Optimizer> and I can get conversations etc using that 
15:34:41 <Optimizer> like the show nick add-on does
15:35:06 <flo> Optimizer: getBrowser().selectedConversation._conv.account
15:35:16 <Optimizer> thanks :)
15:35:20 <flo> that will give you the account of the currently selected tab
15:35:30 <Optimizer> that's all I need
15:35:48 <aleth> Optimizer: I think you would save yourself a lot of time if you had a look through the conversation.xml code to get an idea of what objects are reachable from the conversation binding and how.
15:36:01 <Optimizer> what if (!acc.connected || !acc.canJoinChat) is true for that account ?
15:36:12 * flo thinks you would have had a good answer faster by asking "how can I get the account of the currently selected tab from a conversation window?" instead of "how do I get the active account?"
15:36:30 <flo> Optimizer: if !acc.canJoinChat, you are definitely not in an IRC account
15:36:43 <flo> so I don't think you care about channels in that case
15:36:50 <Optimizer> oh
15:36:51 <Optimizer> thanks
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15:40:45 * aleth thinks flo is right, but for newbies part of the learning curve is figuring out the terminology so they can ask questions that can be answered
15:41:24 <aleth> For which I don't think there are any shortcuts beyond seeing how things are organised internally.
15:41:31 <flo> aleth: I think comparing a good and a poor question helps to see the difference between them and learn to ask questions that can easily be answered
15:41:47 <aleth> Oh, definitely.
15:41:50 * Optimizer knows that I ask a lot, but that eventually helps
15:42:59 <flo> aleth: also it may be useful to point out that the lack or answer isn't "because we dislike you" but "because the question isn't good"
15:44:00 <aleth> e.g. "there is no such thing as 'the active account' " ;)
15:44:42 <aleth> All I meant was that the question comes from an implicit assumption about how things are organised internally which is wrong.
15:45:05 <clokep_work> Right, so it sometimes helps to describe what you're really trying to do instead of just "how do I get so and so?"
15:45:07 <Optimizer> what would you call the account associated to the current tab
15:45:21 <clokep_work> The account of the current tab. :)
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15:45:47 <aleth> Well, technically you would go tab -> conversation binding -> conversation -> account
15:45:55 <aleth> (for example)
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15:49:16 <aleth> clokep_work: "Right, so it sometimes helps to describe what you're really trying to do instead of just "how do I get so and so?" <- that seems to be the key :)
15:51:11 <Optimizer> stop mocking me guys
15:51:29 <Optimizer> I am loosing the will to code for IB now :(
15:51:59 <aleth> I don't think anyone was mocking you... just having a conversation about how best to respond to newbie questions so we can help better!
15:52:05 <flo> Optimizer: it's not you. It's all people who ask questions and receive frustrating answers even though the people answering are willing to help ;)
15:53:08 <clokep_work> Optimizer: We're not mocking you at all.
15:53:20 <Optimizer> hmmm
15:53:35 <aleth> Plus, you seem to have written an add-on in record time, so things can't be going too badly :D
15:53:35 <clokep_work> We all ask questions like that when we have a limited understanding of how things work, we're just trying to explain that it's hard for us to answer without making assumptions about what you're really asking.
15:53:38 <clokep_work> It helps a lot ot be specific. :)
15:53:59 <flo> I think lots of people have a hard time when beginning open source work to learn to explain where they are going instead of where they are stuck.
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15:54:35 <Optimizer> aleth: I didn't have to look up on how to make add-ons , thats why
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15:55:22 <flo> Optimizer: even when knowing everything about Instantbird's internal, it can still take us a lot of time between starting and having something ready to package ;)
15:55:54 <aleth> Optimizer: When I first started writing things for Instantbird, I also was confused about how things worked, and asked questions that had no answer ;) It's normal. Someone telling you that you are asking the wrong question is actually helpful, not criticism.
15:56:16 <Optimizer> there there, now you guys are just trying to comfort me :P
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15:56:38 <flo> pfff :-P
15:57:45 <flo> it's hard to work with a single screen :-S
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15:59:27 <aleth> Would it be feasible to not build a nightly if the repo hasn't been changed?
16:00:13 <flo> any reason for wanting that?
16:00:40 <aleth> I don't know... energy savings? ;)
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16:01:52 <aleth> I think the current FF build system has a check like that, hence the question.
16:02:42 <Optimizer> You guys also have slaves ?
16:02:48 <Optimizer> building and testing builds on platforms 
16:03:29 <flo> we have only one slave per platform, so not really enough to have unit testing
16:03:40 <flo> but we do nightly builds every night :)
16:05:44 <Optimizer> thus nightly :P
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16:06:19 <flo> aleth: you know a bit the code used for writing messages to the conversation in chunk, right?
16:07:18 <flo> Optimizer: yeah, even though it's probably not the night yet in California when we do them ;)
16:07:49 <flo> aleth: I'm looking for a way to handle the second review comment at https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=754914#c3
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16:08:18 <flo> sending a notification to the global observer service each time we display something doesn't seem like something I would want :-/
16:09:40 <flo> aleth: I haven't fully decided yet if I want to argue against that comment or find a clean solution to that not-very-important (in my opinion) problem
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16:10:41 <aleth> flo: What does this look like in TB? You have side-by-side the search results and the conversation view?
16:11:10 <flo> the search result view is a log file loaded like other log files
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16:11:19 <flo> aleth: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2301433/Screenshots/SearchIrc.png
16:11:26 <aleth> Thanks
16:11:43 <flo> (assume the participant list isn't visible on that screenshot ;))
16:12:58 <Optimizer> flo: That screen looks different to what I can see (not talking about Mac and Windows difference)
16:13:16 <Optimizer> I don't see add account, available and search engine on top of conversation window
16:13:48 <flo> Optimizer: that screenshot is from Thunderbird (my day job ;)), not Instantbird
16:14:08 <Optimizer> Ah
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16:14:22 <Optimizer> Thunderbird has IRC support ?
16:15:10 <flo> Thunderbird 15 will have it.
16:15:36 <flo> Optimizer: the back-end comes from Instantbird ;)
16:16:07 <Optimizer> seems like I might shift to it then :P
16:17:31 <flo> if you already use Thunderbird everyday, that solution may make sense for you
16:18:35 <Optimizer> no I liked the UI of TB
16:18:47 <Optimizer> I only want to use IRC
16:19:06 <aleth> So the highlight of messages which contain search hits, that's a TB-specific feature? How is that implemented - do you add an attribute to the DOM? (Sorry I can't see it in the patch)
16:20:09 <flo> Optimizer: Tb isn't really designed to not have any email accounts. If you use it only for IRC you may find lots of bugs (but if you report them I may fix them :)).
16:20:40 <flo> aleth: I open the findbar and put the search term in its textbox
16:21:01 <aleth> So the "highlight" is just a selection, as in IB.
16:21:33 <flo> are you talking about the view in the screenshot (where no highlight is visible btw) or of the gloda facet view?
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16:22:20 <aleth> Not about the screenshot, but I asked because of one I remember seeing some other time which had a blue border highlight.
16:23:18 <aleth> If you were to fire a notification, I think it should be one sent after all pending messages have been added, not after each individual message.
16:23:33 <aleth> I'm still not sure I fully understand the context though.
16:23:46 <flo> aleth: http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/mail/base/content/glodaFacetBindings.xml#1658
16:24:11 <flo> that code (which I wrote) isn't specific to IMs though
16:25:34 <aleth> I agree it doesn't seem a hugely important problem, and sending notifications just for that would add constant overhead which is not needed for any other feature
16:26:07 <flo> do we have a cheap way to do it though?
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16:26:14 <aleth> At least if you only sent a notification when everything pending is ready, you wouldn't suffer performance drawbacks
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16:26:30 <aleth> But then it wouldn't start searching until the progress bar is done.
16:27:12 <flo> is there a reference from the convbrowser to the conversation binding already?
16:27:41 <aleth> browser._messageDisplayPending isn't enough for that?
16:27:57 <flo> I want to find the word as soon as it's displayed, so waiting for the whole conversation to be displayed isn't ok
16:28:44 <aleth> That's what I thought.
16:29:26 <aleth> I don't think there is meant to be such a reference (at least I can't think of one).
16:30:27 <flo> I would need something around http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/content/convbrowser.xml#341
16:30:36 <aleth> What if you trigger the search (if necessary) directly from the equivalent of displayPendingMessages (convbrowser) after each bunch of messages is displayed?
16:31:10 <aleth> flo: yes, that's what I was just looking at too :)
16:31:11 <flo> oh well, we could dispatch an event to the browser tag, and add an addEventListener from the conversation binding
16:32:02 <aleth> or dispatch an event to this.contentWindow.(...) ?
16:33:10 <aleth> ah, that wouldn't work.
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16:36:35 <aleth> Would it be cleaner to set a boolean in the convbrowser object while searching, and also do the highlighting from convbrowser?
16:36:45 <aleth> i.e. move as much of the search code to convbrowser as you can
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16:37:31 <aleth> (I'm not sure that's a good idea, just mentioning it)
16:38:05 <flo> would also be cleaner to give all the search terms
16:38:22 <flo> using the findbar was just an ugly hack, but apparently it's going to get ui-r+ ;)
16:38:45 <aleth> I see :D
16:43:09 <aleth> That's the only moderately clean idea that I can think of - move the "backend" part of search to convbrowser, and trigger it from the UI via new methods (jumpToNextResult and such).
16:43:32 <aleth> Seems a lot of extra work though.
16:44:35 <flo> seems like something we will want ;)
16:44:39 <flo> later :)
16:45:07 <aleth> Yes, for better search and highlighting, it would be needed anyway one day ;)
16:46:56 <flo> and to display in the conversation only the message that contain the search results + some context messages, rather than the whole log :)
16:47:37 <aleth> )
16:47:49 <aleth> And highlight all the visible search results at the same time...
16:47:51 <flo> ) ;)
16:48:14 <aleth> parentheses as minimalist smileys
16:50:06 <flo> you can also use : )
16:50:32 <flo> I've heard the space character has the magical property of making today's instantbird not fail ;)
16:50:44 <aleth> :-)
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16:54:22 <wnayes> Just an update: still interested in making a Psychic Mode addon; trying to understand the modules/services surrounding conversations :)
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16:55:26 <wnayes> If my instincts are right, imConversations.js might have something to do with the buddy-typing notification, in particular http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/components/src/imConversations.js#263
16:57:06 <wnayes> However I am curious as to what exactly a "target" is in this context, and why it would want to be changed. What I'm understanding so far is that a UIConversation is something related to an individual conversation, not the entire collection.
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17:02:06 <Mic> flo: in hindsight I'd say I should have tried to adapt Fx' Strata theme.
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17:02:53 <Mic> Which parts bug you most? I'm seeing them everyday, so I guess I'm too used to it ;)
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17:11:32 <flo> wnayes: so, the concepts around our various conversation objects aren't really easy to guess :)
17:11:47 <flo> it's possible to have several different ways to contact a single person.
17:12:56 <flo> we call a person a "contact" (imIContact). Each person can have several buddies (the accounts that person has) (imIBuddy). You can reach a buddy from different accounts you have. The link between a buddy and an account of the user is represented by the prplIAccountBuddy objects.
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17:13:41 <flo> a conversation as seen by a protocol plugin (prplIConversation) is a conversation between a prplIAccountBuddy and one of the user's accounts.
17:14:05 <clokep_work> flo: If you want to send smiles, just send ::)
17:14:46 <flo> however, a conversation as seen by the UI (imIConversation, often designed by UIConversation) is between the user and a person (a contact, imIContact). 
17:15:22 <flo> when changing the prplIAccountBuddy used to talk to a contact, the target of the imIConversation conversation changes.
17:16:05 * flo wonders if he has clarified the situation or confused it even more :).
17:19:59 <wnayes> flo: Thanks for the explanation; I must be mainly looking at UI related code, as I haven't seen most of those terms. I haven't found anything yet that seems to be relevant to the fix I need to make :(
17:21:36 <flo> you understand what a target is now?
17:22:04 <clokep_work> wnayes: Did you look at the four items in that list I sent you yesterday?
17:22:16 <clokep_work> (Also what is exact "fix" you're trying to do? :))
17:24:23 <wnayes> clokep_work: Those have been what I've been looking at mainly, at least to see if there is something that would require a pref to allow the buddy-typing notification to be available to an addon for non-existing conversations.
17:25:13 <clokep_work> wnayes: I don't think flo was saying to have a pref to allow the buddy-typing notification to be available...I think he was saying to have a pref for Psychic Mode (but maybe I misunderstood).
17:25:20 <wnayes> flo: a target is the account being used rather than the contact being messaged?
17:25:54 <clokep_work> Right, so you'd want to look at the places that fire off the typing notification, although I guess I'm not positive where this happens. :-S
17:25:59 <flo> wnayes: right :)
17:29:14 <wnayes> clokep_work: My best guess now would be in observeConv, http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/components/src/imConversations.js#271
17:30:37 <wnayes> I'm unsure if I can observe every notification of that type or only for a particular/existing conversation
17:31:31 <clokep_work> The issue I see with that though...is that the UIConversation doesn't exist until after it's been opened, so adding something there won't help you AFAIK (thoughts flo?)
17:35:24 <clokep_work> Since that's where the notification is caught, not where it's thrown.
17:35:34 <clokep_work> If I'm understanding this code properly!
17:37:21 <instantbot> New Core - IRC bug 1444 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
17:37:23 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1444 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Basic test for IRC messages
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17:40:07 <flo> I think if I wanted to make this change I would look in the C++ code of purplexpcom to see what happens to libpurple typing notifications 
17:40:08 <instantbot> c++ sucks
17:40:33 <flo> clokep_work: what do you mean with "object --> String --> object "?
17:41:11 <clokep_work> flo: Taking an ircMessage object, building the string message out of it and then parsing it again to get an object (what you originally suggested).
17:42:22 <flo> I don't see how you can have an ircMessage object without having the string first
17:43:00 <flo> but really, test whatever you think would be the most likely to catch regressions :)
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17:44:17 <clokep_work> flo: But that's exactly what you suggested earlier. :P And you'd have the ircMessage object by hand crafting it.
17:45:47 <clokep_work> I actually like the opposite better (string --> object --> string), but I'm not sure my code will always create exactly the same messages...
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17:47:25 <flo> I suggested decode(encode(m)) == m [where m is a string, taken from an array on which we iterate, but I haven't said that explicitly as it seemed obvious :-/]
17:47:40 <flo> I don't see how == could be meaningful on an object
17:48:24 <clokep_work> I took encode(m) as m being an object and encode being "encode it to a string" ;)
17:48:41 <clokep_work> So I guess you didn't say /exactly/ that, but it was a bit vague. :)
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17:51:16 <flo> let o = encode(m); m is the message the user typed; o is the string we send to the server. There are only strings ;)
17:52:16 <clokep_work> Ah, so I took what you said totally wrong then.
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17:52:39 <clokep_work> I thought you were talking about messages in general, not just PRIVMSGs.
17:52:53 <flo> it was (purposefully?) ambiguous, so you could imagine whatever made the most sense
17:53:18 <clokep_work> Right.
17:54:05 <clokep_work> Anyway, do you understand the testing paradigm around the fakeserver stuff? I don't understand how they have like "contents" to give to a client connecting to them. Are they just preloaded w/ mail and then the tests download it and ensure certain things on it?
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17:55:38 <flo> I think I begin to like the Tb IM UI
17:56:52 <flo> clokep_work: I'm not sure all the fakeservers used for testing follow exactly the same ideas. People probably whatever was easiest for what they were trying to achieve at the time.
17:57:37 <flo> for an irc fake server we would probably want something that behaves more or less like a real server, so that we can check that we are able to connect, receive messages, handle whois replies, etc...
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18:00:33 <clokep_work> Right. So I guess we'd test if we send a WHOIS do we receive the responses we expect? :)
18:00:58 <flo> clokep_work: we could also test that we don't fail to bad when the server doesn't send the reply we expect
18:01:08 <flo> *too
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18:03:05 <wnayes> I would say the buddy-typing notification is sent to observers of a particular conversation based on http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/purplexpcom/src/purpleInitConv.cpp#218. Line 114 seems to be where observers are notified.
18:03:37 <flo> yes
18:03:44 <flo> is this called if the conversation doesn't exist?
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18:04:25 <flo> wnayes: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/purplexpcom/src/purpleInitConv.cpp#112 will return early if no prplIConversation object exists yet
18:04:52 <wnayes> I was just going to ask about NS_ENSURE_TRUE :)
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18:06:32 <flo> wnayes: |NS_ENSURE_TRUE(a, rv);| is |if (!a) { NS_WARNING("NS_ENSURE_TRUE("a") failed"); return rv; }|
18:06:57 <flo> wnayes: if you have a debug build, it will be visible in your terminal if NS_ENSURE_* returns
18:09:18 <flo> wnayes: I think if I wanted to work on this I would add several printfs around to understand what happens more quickly
18:10:54 <wnayes> flo: since this is happening at a lower level, can prefs be accessed or addons influence the behavior? I could see something simply added (like a create_conv() call) if the conversation does not exist, however then there would be no need for an addon :)
18:11:21 <flo> wnayes: the add-on would just add some UI for the pref
18:11:29 <flo> or turn the pref on automatically when it is installed
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18:11:50 <flo> or display a system message in the conversation
18:12:29 <clokep_work> Whoever is doing the opening should display the system message I think. :)
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18:21:36 <flo> bah, we cleanup all the addEventListener calls that had false as the last parameter, but no the removeEventListener calls? :-S
18:21:41 <flo> *cleaned up
18:22:25 <aleth> I'm pretty sure neither is all cleaned up everywhere...
18:22:59 <flo> aleth: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/search?string=addEventListener looks quite clean to me
18:23:22 <flo> aleth: bug 1031
18:23:30 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1031 tri, --, 1.2, benediktp, RESO FIXED, Remove the optional last parameter from addEventListener calls
18:24:10 <aleth> I must have been thinking of removeEventListener then
18:24:24 <aleth> Certainly saw one or the other recently...
18:24:39 <aleth> Sorry
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18:29:40 <aleth> clokep_work: WATCH is really working beautifully :)
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18:32:05 <flo> aleth: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/42606
18:32:14 <flo> I think that's all I need to please bwinton for that patch
18:32:50 <flo> I guess I should add some IRC contacts to my list to see that watch in action :)
18:32:52 <clokep_work> aleth: Good. :) Glad you can stalk my away messages now. ;)
18:32:58 <aleth> Aha, yes, that should do it :)
18:33:48 <flo> that's technically in chat/ so clokep_work may want to look at it too?
18:34:21 * clokep_work grumbles.
18:34:36 <clokep_work> Can I have the 2 minute background to this?
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18:35:20 <flo> hmm
18:36:05 <flo> clokep_work: so when displaying a conversation log after the user clicked on a gloda search result with an highlighted keyword, Tb-UI people want me to highlight the searched term in the conversation log too
18:36:24 <flo> the trick I'm using for that is putting the search term in the findbar, and calling findAgain
18:36:48 <flo> my current patch does that findAgain call every 100ms until the term is found, which bwinton didn't like
18:37:12 <flo> he wants me to add a notification instead each time there's a reason to expect that it's now possible to find something that wasn't found before (ie there are new displayed messages)
18:37:46 <flo> I think a global notification would be a pretty bad idea; a non bubbling event seems an acceptable compromise to me
18:39:00 <clokep_work> Alright, that sounds reasonable to me too.
18:39:13 <clokep_work> Please do r=aleth,clokep.
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18:43:39 <aleth> Anyone else experiencing occasional IB crashes (contact window opens, but its contents is not drawn) on restart (e.g. after an update) in the last few days? Killing the process and restarting, everything is fine.
18:44:11 <clokep_work> aleth: I think that happened to me once? But I think it crashed totally.
18:49:19 * clokep_work wonders if these would be helpful somewhere...
18:49:21 <clokep_work> http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/mozilla/extensions/irc/js/lib/connection-xpcom.js#7
18:49:24 <flo> that doesn't seem like a "crash"
18:49:56 <flo> in socket.jsm maybe?
18:50:03 * Mic hopes the Tb UI looks better on Mac than it does on Windows :(
18:50:15 <flo> like at http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/modules/socket.jsm#91 ?
18:50:35 <flo> Mic: are you trying it or looking at a screenshot?
18:50:42 <Mic> I'm trying it.
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18:51:14 <flo> is this about the Tb UI in general, or IM-in-Tb specifically?
18:51:45 <Mic> The Tb UI in general, but the IM-in-Tb doesn't look that good there either :S
18:52:37 <flo> blame andreas? :)
18:53:17 <Mook_as> yeah, I couldn't stand the default Tb UI on Windows, had to get Silvermel :(
18:57:22 <Mic> The IM status selector looks great, though ;)
18:58:08 <FeuerFliege> Mic: Daily or Earlybird?
18:58:19 <Mic> I'm using Daily
18:58:34 <Mic> *trying
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19:01:47 <clokep_work> I don't mind the new Daily UI.
19:02:08 <clokep_work> I don't think it's OMG AMAZING!!!!11!!1!, but I'm OK w/ it.
19:02:26 <FeuerFliege> IIRC Thunderbird Daily has gone full australis, right?
19:03:09 <Mic> Not, as far as I can tell. The tabs look still very Firefox-4-ish.
19:04:32 <FeuerFliege> I thought they were rounded and glass everywhere
19:04:39 <FeuerFliege> https://people.mozilla.com/~shorlander/ux-presentation/01-Firefox-Australis-(Windows).jpg
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19:08:51 <clokep_work> I do have to say that IM in Thunderbird could provide some interesting opportunities...
19:09:17 <wnayes> flo: just tried some printf's in notify_conv, unfortunately (with AIM at least) they only occurred when the conversation was opened (despite being before the NS_ENSURE_TRUE calls).
19:09:49 <clokep_work> wnayes: Did you take a look at the psychic mode source to see what libpurple signal it listens to?
19:11:25 <FeuerFliege> I was just asked if IB supports the jabber protocol … 
19:11:48 <FeuerFliege> is it XMPP?
19:11:49 <clokep_work> FeuerFliege: By someone using Instantbird?
19:11:53 <clokep_work> Yes.
19:11:57 <clokep_work> Jabber isn't a protocol, it's a network.
19:12:19 <aleth> FeuerFliege: Jabber.org uses XMPP
19:13:53 <clokep_work> wnayes: http://lxr.instantbird.org/pidgin2.6.3/source/libpurple/plugins/psychic.c#35
19:14:05 <wnayes> clokep_work: the plugin has a callback given to purple_signal_connect(), listening to the "buddy-typing" signal.
19:14:09 <clokep_work> (Also ViewMTN is absolutely awful...)
19:14:09 <aleth> What does this psychic plugin do?
19:14:57 <FeuerFliege> thx
19:15:03 <clokep_work> aleth: It opens a conversation window when someone starts typing to you.
19:15:08 <clokep_work> Even if the conversation isn't open.
19:15:22 <clokep_work> (Well I guess only if the conversation isn't open.)
19:17:02 <aleth> Aha, so you can answer before you read the question ;)
19:17:48 <FeuerFliege> maybe in Germany jabber is also used to name the protocol, at least the German wikipedia says so.
19:18:11 <Mic> I think it started as Jabber and was renamed one day to XMPP?
19:18:34 <clokep_work> Kind of. xmpp.org or whatever their site is has a good description of it.
19:18:40 <aleth> FeuerFliege: Maybe it would be a good idea if the protocol description included it: "XMPP (Jabber)"
19:18:57 <aleth> File a bug?
19:20:49 <Mic> I can't close conversations of a deleted account in Daily :( Error is http://pastebin.instantbird.com/42619.
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19:21:21 <clokep_work> aleth: I'd really prefer it doesn't.
19:21:32 <clokep_work> That'd be like saying "IRC (Freenode)" in my mind.
19:21:39 <clokep_work> (Which isn't even the biggest network, mind you.)
19:22:05 <aleth> clokep_work: I was thinking not of that literal string, but of using the new longer description in the fav protocol selector
19:22:06 <clokep_work> Also we were specifically asked not to reference it as jabber by bear - afk.
19:22:17 <clokep_work> It's not a top protocol. ;)
19:22:25 <aleth> Not in the USA maybe ;)
19:22:47 <aleth> The German locale may want to differ...
19:23:53 <aleth> Oh, I see, looking at the code, the long-form descriptions only exist for the top protocols of each locale, not overall. So it's up to the -de localiser anyway.
19:25:11 <FeuerFliege> clokep_work: the biggest German XMPP server  are called jabber.foobar.de: jabber.ccc.de jabber.piratenpartei.de etc.
19:25:17 <FeuerFliege> aleth: 
19:25:47 <Mic> The new select-protocol-step is great, wnayes :)
19:25:48 <FeuerFliege> yes i think i should take care of that issue with the German l10n 
19:26:34 <aleth> FeuerFliege: Have you tried the new protocol selector in the account wizard, so you see what we meant by "top protocols'?
19:27:01 <FeuerFliege> yes i noticed it today
19:27:22 <FeuerFliege> I think ICQ should be mentioned in Germany
19:27:31 <FeuerFliege> but it looks nice
19:27:41 <aleth> That's all up to the German l10n team
19:28:11 <Mic> Which is .. him ;)
19:28:16 <FeuerFliege> )
19:28:25 <aleth> Then the conversation will be short :D
19:29:00 <FeuerFliege> the behaviour of this unread line changed, right?
19:29:30 <Mic> I think I saw a screenshot of Tb on Mac with something that looked like the Australis theme. The tab borders were curved atleast.
19:29:38 <aleth> FeuerFliege: Yes, it now disappears when you switch away from a window. Please let us know if you think it better or worse
19:29:49 <FeuerFliege> better
19:30:41 <Mic> lol @ http://lxr.instantbird.org/pidgin2.6.3/source/libpurple/plugins/psychic.c#67
19:31:28 <Mic> It should post another message saying "You always sense a disturbance of the force" if the buddy stopped typing and didn't send a message in the end ;)
19:31:57 <aleth> "The force is not with you today" ;)
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19:46:58 <Mic> Neither is Daily any longer ;)
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19:48:03 <Mic> It's nice to have the status for IRC contacts on the list now, thanks :)
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20:09:09 <FeuerFliege> freenode doesn’t like my instantbird. Sometimes a part of the message is cut off. Did anyone noticed problems, too?
20:11:49 <Mic> Do you have an example for a message that was cut off?
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20:21:41 <clokep_work> Mic: Glad you like it. :) It'll only work on some networks.
20:21:53 <clokep_work> FeuerFliege: IRC has a max length, if someone is saying really long things it'll cut off.
20:22:00 <clokep_work> So an example would be good (pastebin it if you have to).
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20:23:39 <FeuerFliege> I sent “eins zwei drei vier” in the IB window it’s shown as „eins zwei drei vier“ but only the first word is received (“eins”).
20:31:45 <aleth> FeuerFliege: I can reproduce this.
20:31:48 <aleth> Please file a bug?
20:32:13 <FeuerFliege> ok
20:33:11 <aleth> Also, try if ":eins zwei drei vier" works for you - it does for me
20:36:11 <FeuerFliege> aleth: yes, but »:« disappeared.
20:36:47 <aleth> Right, same here. It's a regression from a patch that landed the other day.
20:38:03 <aleth> clokep will be overjoyed when he returns ;)
20:38:17 <FeuerFliege> G
20:38:21 <FeuerFliege> D
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21:17:59 <instantbot> New Core - IRC bug 1445 filed by bugi@media.fjmail.de.
21:18:01 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1445 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Messages are cut off before first [Space] on freenode server
21:20:05 <FeuerFliege> clokep: aleth said you would be “overjoyed” to hear that there might be a regression.
21:20:09 <clokep> FeuerFliege: I can't reproduce that.
21:20:31 <aleth> I can :(
21:20:58 <aleth> Very strange though - why does it work on mozilla.org?
21:21:00 <clokep> Are you using a different encoding than UTF-8?
21:21:08 <aleth> I very much doubt it.
21:21:08 <FeuerFliege> no
21:21:28 <aleth> How would I check?
21:21:52 <clokep> OK I can reproduce on Freenode, but why would it work on one and not the other? Hmmm...
21:22:11 <aleth> Some strange interaction with MONITOR? 
21:22:12 <FeuerFliege> D ← should be a smily
21:22:22 <aleth> FeuerFliege: that's been fixed already.
21:22:25 <clokep> aleth: I doubt that.
21:22:31 <aleth> So do I.
21:22:45 * clokep is waiting for his build to finish.
21:24:30 <FeuerFliege> aleth: when was it fixed? I have todays nightly.
21:24:43 <aleth> FeuerFliege: You need tomorrow's nightly :P
21:24:52 <clokep> aleth: That wasn't checked in yet, actually.
21:25:00 <clokep> I'll be verifying that fix momentarily though.
21:25:26 <FeuerFliege> so its not checked in yet?
21:26:02 <FeuerFliege> oy
21:26:10 <clokep> aleth: (For bonus points I'll be reviewing your patch at the same time. ;))
21:26:16 <FeuerFliege> *ok
21:26:40 <FeuerFliege> good night.
21:27:15 <aleth> It's a good thing too it hasn't been checked in yet as clearly there is still a tweak needed...
21:27:44 <aleth> I think I see the problem.
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21:28:11 <clokep> ?
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21:28:56 <aleth> No : is prepended on mozilla.org either, the server is just more tolerant.
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21:29:34 <clokep> aleth: OK. I'll look at it in a second.
21:30:19 <clokep> aleth: I know the issue.
21:30:52 <clokep> I'll give you a patch in a second.
21:31:29 * flo has the unread ruler in a place that really doesn't help
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21:31:55 <Mook_as> where the sun doesn't shine? :p
21:32:50 <clokep> >:O
21:32:58 <clokep> My builds keep crashing all of a suddent now...
21:33:51 * bear|buildduty is now known as bear-afk
21:34:33 <clokep> Oh wait...I vaguely recall making some edit previously to nsXPConnect...?
21:34:43 <flo> Mic: "I can't close conversations of a deleted account in Daily" deleting the account should close the conversation automatically. But it's something I haven't tested since the chat/ update.
21:36:32 <clokep> flo: Do you remember how you fixed this? http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/120321/#m509
21:39:08 <flo> aleth: so the new unread ruler behavior really annoys me. What was changed exactly and why?
21:39:26 <flo> clokep: I just made the assertion non fatal
21:40:57 <clokep> "non fatal"?
21:41:11 <flo> ifdef'd out the part that makes it abort ;)
21:41:48 <aleth> flo: It now removes the ruler also when a window loses focus. This was a request by those who didn't like seeing an unread ruler, but no messages they hadn't read yet, when returning to IB.
21:41:55 <clokep> I don't see the part that makes it abort. :-S
21:42:09 <clokep> I mean I can just comment out line 406, but I don't know if that's the issue...
21:42:12 <aleth> I'm not sure I prefer this behaviour either. It certainly is a change.
21:42:13 <clokep> I recall it being different. :(
21:42:28 <flo> aleth: that change is really very annoying
21:42:32 <flo> for me at least
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21:43:13 <flo> typically when I return from being physically away, I see the Instantbird window (which was focused when I left) and go look at my email inbox, and after checking that there's no email-emergency, I focus back the instantbird window
21:43:30 <aleth> flo: That's exactly why originally I didn't include that behaviour.
21:43:53 * flo is thinking
21:44:05 <flo> I suspect there's a tweak we can do to have the advantage of both
21:44:35 <aleth> Hopefully. I was going to wait for feedback, which is happening today :)
21:44:44 <flo> my case typically involve having Instantbird focused at the time the first message arrives: it's unread because I'm not here, not because the conversation wasn't shown
21:45:19 <flo> what about removing the ruler after instantbird looses focus *after* gaining it?
21:45:56 <flo> clokep: at which line is the problem you currently have?
21:46:04 <flo> clokep: and which exception do you get?
21:47:34 * aleth thinks the twitter website is a bit buggy
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21:50:23 <clokep> flo: Assertion failure: !threadData.conservativeGC.requestThreshold, at c:/Users/clokep/instantbird/mozilla/js/xpconnect/src/nsXPConnect.cpp:406
21:50:43 <aleth> flo: I'll have to think about a precise differentiation
21:52:34 * flo hopes his comment in bug 1434 isn't too rude
21:52:37 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1434 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Adding two buddies with the same nick, but on different IRC accounts leads to strange behaviour
21:52:41 <aleth> If IB was focused, there wouldn't be a ruler
21:53:23 <flo> hmm
21:53:25 <flo> that sounds right
21:53:36 <flo> maybe the screensaver is focused while I'm away?
21:54:08 <aleth> flo: No, you are probably right... if I was sure about it I would have written a patch
21:55:06 <flo> aleth: the structure of our contact list is unfortunately complicated
21:55:29 <flo> it's possibly a case of premature optimization/abstraction :-/.
21:55:34 <aleth> Not quite sure exactly what I am confused about yet though ;) Maybe I meant the right thing but used the wrong terms too
21:56:25 <flo> I designed it months before the 0.1 release, and it included contacts and tags already (that haven't been actually in the UI until 0.3a<some number>).
21:56:33 <aleth> Thanks for the feedback anyway, should clarify things when I am less tired.
21:57:01 <flo> that has saved us the hassle of writing migration code
21:57:26 <flo> but may also make some things be more complicated than they actually need to be
21:58:05 <aleth> I think it's the precise logic of the auto-merging that I don't quite understand yet
21:58:10 <flo> uh, I thought we fixed bug 1424 a long time ago
21:58:14 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1424 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Warning: GenericConvChatPrototype _init "setting a property that has only a getter"
21:59:06 <flo> aleth: it was possibly an excessive optimization for a case that bothered me a lot with the clients I used previously
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22:01:04 <flo> it's the first time I notice "Miranda IM!" is in bold in that quit message :-S
22:01:53 <clokep> Is that bad?
22:02:07 <flo> is this something we could/would want to copy for our default quit message?
22:03:17 <clokep> I'd prefer not to, if a client doesn't support the IRC extensions for bold it could look funky.
22:03:25 <clokep> We could do it, of course.
22:03:45 <flo> isn't it a non printable character?
22:04:26 <flo> but no, I don't really want that, it was just a random idea
22:05:45 <flo> and now I have 3 libpurple accounts stuck on "connecting..."
22:05:56 <flo> but all the others are connected
22:06:15 <flo> connectede for 7 hours and 33 minutes
22:06:55 <clokep> I forget if it's non-printable or not.
22:10:45 <flo> it's not important :)
22:10:59 <flo> not being able to send messages on freenode bothers me more ;)
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22:14:51 <clokep> flo: I have an untested patch for the IRC stuff...but I have to go...
22:15:11 <flo> I'll go to bed in a few minutes, so I guess we will fix that up later
22:15:24 <flo> I'll be offline tomorrow afternoon and evening (invited to a wedding)
22:15:48 <clokep> Alright. I'll put up a patch tomorow.
22:15:50 <clokep> Goodnight! :)
22:15:57 <clokep> (IT is a nightly...stuff breaks. ;))
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22:21:55 <Mic> Good night
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23:50:01 <flo> Good night :)
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