#instantbird log on 05 01 2012

All times are UTC.

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00:30:36 <clokep> Good evening!
00:36:49 <gpsychosis> And to you, clokep
00:37:25 <clokep> Ah, no logs to catch up. :) that's a relief.
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00:46:32 <Mook_as> good evening! (and now I'm gone! :D )
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01:34:48 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 1422 on bug 1366.
01:34:50 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1366 maj, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Inform the user when attempting to send a message to an offline nick
01:35:23 <clokep> flo: If there's simple feedback for that patch ^ ^ if you send it to me before I'm awake I'll try to get it done before work so we can land that.
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02:55:39 <instant-buildbot> build #481 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/481
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04:45:27 <instant-buildbot> build #572 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/572
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06:03:45 <instant-buildbot> build #469 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/469
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09:01:46 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 1422 on bug 1366.
09:01:50 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1366 maj, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Inform the user when attempting to send a message to an offline nick
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09:53:34 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1415 filed by aletheia2@fastmail.fm.
09:53:36 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1415 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Unread ruler should also appear after last context message
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10:25:37 <clokep> Good morning.
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10:33:56 <clokep> aleth: Did that patch ever land to make the margins of the separator "better"?
10:34:03 <clokep> I can't keep track of all your check-ins. :P
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10:43:16 <flo> clokep: no
10:43:46 <clokep> Good, cause it still looks funky. :)
10:43:58 <flo> I can't keep track of all the check-ins either, but I know what I feel guilty for still having in my review queue after too many days ;)
10:44:42 <flo> iirc that patch looked like the reviewer would have to be careful with potential edge cases
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10:48:55 <clokep> Right. :)
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10:59:59 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 1259 to FIXED.
11:00:02 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1259 enh, --, 1.2, benediktp, RESO FIXED, Replace JS animation code in messagestyle themes by CSS
11:01:30 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 1366 to FIXED.
11:01:36 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1366 maj, --, 1.2, clokep, RESO FIXED, Inform the user when attempting to send a message to an offline nick
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11:07:00 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/31f19195a359 - Patrick Cloke - Bug 1366 - Inform the user when attempting to send a message to an offline nick, r=aleth,fqueze.
11:07:01 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/44cdcdd49d40 - Benedikt Pfeifer - Bug 1259 - Replace JS animation code in messagestyle themes by CSS, r=fqueze.
11:07:02 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/42dfeac069b7 - aleth - Bug 1406 - follow-up to avoid adding several times the same nick when double clicking messages, r=fqueze.
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11:51:31 * clokep_work likes the code reduction of that JS --> CSS patch. :)
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12:18:34 <aleth> yay, bug 1366 is done :)
12:18:39 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1366 maj, --, 1.2, clokep, RESO FIXED, Inform the user when attempting to send a message to an offline nick
12:19:35 <clokep_work> Yeah, thanks for reviewing.
12:20:03 <aleth> Error handling, the bane of coding.
12:49:37 <clokep_work> Yes. :( But it's important.
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14:49:03 <flo> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/conversation.xml#893 could really do with some cleanup
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14:59:46 <clokep_work> Nah I think that code looks perfectly reasonable. ;
15:00:03 * clokep_work needs an extension to add a ) whenever he sents messages ending in a ;. :(
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17:05:56 <wnayes> Hi everyone, I've got a working example of the top protocols wizard page from bug 1391 which I am ready to submit for review :)
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17:06:04 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1391 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Simplify account creation wizard
17:08:27 <wnayes> I've got a .patch file from mercurial queue which looks correct, but before submitting to bugzilla I should do something like qpop, pull, qpush to ensure I'm on the latest commit?
17:09:23 <aleth> wnayes: Great! :) 
17:09:34 <aleth> I doubt that part of the code has been touched recently, so you should be OK.
17:09:42 <clokep_work> wnayes: I don't actually use MQ (flo doesn't either I know).
17:09:46 <clokep_work> You should be able to just attach it.
17:09:52 <aleth> Just attach it :)
17:10:08 <Mook_as> yeah; if you really want to, I think the sequence is
17:10:25 <Mook_as> hg qpop -a && hg pull -u && hg qpush -a && hg qref
17:10:58 <Mook_as> (I also like to default qref to -UD -- update user name and date in the patch)
17:13:03 <wnayes> Should I set anyone in particular to review the attachment?
17:14:06 <clokep_work> wnayes: You can set it to me.
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17:14:24 <clokep_work> clokep @ gmail
17:15:41 <wnayes> clokep_work: Will do, thanks. I'll write up a description and then submit it :)
17:16:09 <clokep_work> Awesome! :)
17:16:26 <clokep_work> wnayes: Most likely you'll get feedback from a bunch of people btw.
17:17:32 <clokep_work> Various aspects of the code are "owned" by different people when choosing reviewers btw. IRC, minimize to tray, Twitter and a couple other bits usually end up going to me. Tab completion stuff would go to aleth (if anyone else ever made patches :P) and flo is always the fallback.
17:17:37 <clokep_work> Since he theoretically knows all the code. ;)
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17:20:47 <aleth> I know my way around some parts of the conversation UI too if that should arise. Mic seems to know something about a lot of different areas. flo has the longest review queue ;) 
17:20:56 <instantbot> wnayes@gmail.com requested review from clokep@gmail.com for attachment 1423 on bug 1391.
17:20:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1391 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Simplify account creation wizard
17:20:58 <aleth> Does that cover it?
17:22:14 <clokep_work> wnayes: In the future feel free to upload the image as a patch too. Easier to keep it all in one place. :)
17:22:31 <wnayes> Thanks for the tips everyone, it was fun to implement and I'm sure there will be varied opinions on it :)
17:22:49 <clokep_work> Well the imgae looks pretty. :)
17:24:27 <Mook_as> well, you probably don't want to check the "is patch" checkbox for images... :)
17:25:13 <aleth> Oh nice, the short list of accounts is localizeable 
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17:25:48 <clokep_work> Speaking of uploading patches...Mook_as do you know if someone has a Komodo macro around to attatch an open patch to a bug?
17:26:15 <Mook_as> hmm. I don't know of one, no
17:26:32 <clokep_work> Hopefully you'll know of one soon. ;)
17:26:38 <Mook_as> it'd probably want to interface with gerv's bzapi, though?
17:26:52 <Mook_as> (which is... installed, as far as I know, on only one bugzilla instance in the world... :p )
17:27:50 <clokep_work> Is that the JSON API?
17:28:30 <Mook_as> yeah
17:28:44 <clokep_work> Yeah...well...I do some stuff on there. ;)
17:28:46 * wnayes grabbing lunch now, will be back shortly
17:29:28 <Mook_as> it'd probably want to integrate with your vcs system too... in this case, upload hg mq patches.
17:30:15 <clokep_work> Yeah...I don't use mq though.
17:30:21 <clokep_work> I always found it too confusing. :P
17:30:21 <aleth> There is a GSoC project to integrate bugzilla and github into emacs-orgmode :P
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17:40:11 <clokep_work> They would do that. :(
17:41:49 <aleth> You can tell the account wizard is old code because it's full of var statements ;)
17:43:58 <clokep_work> aleth: I had that same thought!
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18:05:12 <flo> clokep_work: "IRC, minimize to tray, Twitter and a couple other bits usually end up going to me." I'm glad to know you own the minimize to tray code :-P.
18:08:38 <clokep_work> flo: I keep trying to pass it to aleth...
18:09:05 <flo> clokep_work: that's what I thought, so your above statement seemed a step backward :-P
18:11:51 <clokep_work> flo: Well when al eth makes patches I still need to review it. :P
18:13:33 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird.org for attachment 1423 on bug 1391.
18:13:36 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1391 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Simplify account creation wizard
18:18:12 <clokep_work> wnayes: Looks pretty good overall! :)
18:19:20 * clokep_work likes the text for MSN..."the artist formerly known as MSN" ;)
18:19:44 <clokep_work> I'd appreciate if someone more comfortable w/ XUL/CSS could look over those bits.
18:19:56 <clokep_work> (And take note of my comment about maybe using some XBL?)
18:20:53 <wnayes> clokep_work: Thanks for the review :) I can definitely make most of those changes. Not sure how the ellipsis were lost in the dtd...
18:23:35 <clokep_work> wnayes: Actually I noticed afterward the line above it is messed up too, so probably an encoding issues (or Bugzilla being a pain in the neck).
18:24:02 <clokep_work> Let me know if I said anything crazy or you disagree, the review is meant to be a discussion!
18:24:06 <clokep_work> (Either here or in the bug.)
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18:33:37 <Mook_as> for the dtd, <!ENTITY accountProtocolOther.label   "Other&#8230;"> is probably going to give you less trouble.
18:34:20 <Mook_as> but the patch itself should be fine too; firefox just decided to default the file to iso-8859-1 for some reason
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18:41:10 <flo> Mook_as: are there still people putting entities in localizable files these days? :-S
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19:27:01 <wnayes> Is there a list of the prpl-ids within the instantbird code, or should localizers be linked to someplace like http://developer.pidgin.im/wiki/prpl_id to find the available ones?
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19:51:59 <flo> wnayes: I don't think we have such a list, but we will need to make one
19:52:25 <clokep_work> aleth: Be careful when you midair with people. :P You got rid of the status change it seems.
19:52:44 <flo> (or would it be OK to give localizers some code they can paste in the error console to make it print a list of what's currently available?)
19:52:50 <aleth> clokep_work: That's odd, I didn't get a midair warning :(
19:52:51 <clokep_work> wnayes: We'll need a list on wiki.instantbird.org
19:52:58 <clokep_work> Ah, really? Strange.
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19:54:15 <clokep_work> (Code for the error console would be decent too. :))
19:54:56 <clokep_work> I almost wonder if we should have longer descriptions for every network btw? Not sure if there's other places to show it (maybe in the tooltip for the full list)?
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19:58:27 <clokep_work> Bah that Pidgin page is woefully out of date I think.
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19:59:55 <wnayes> I can pull a list together on the instantbird wiki
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20:02:21 <clokep_work> Mic used to have code to get the list I think...
20:02:55 * Mic|web thinks he needs to catch-up on the logs and the bug changes to understand this ;)
20:03:24 <clokep_work> aleth: I'm not sure what your idea is about not having them on separate pages?
20:03:32 <aleth> clokep_work: That's a good point - if long descriptions are useful for the 4 most well-known protocols, they should be even more useful for the lesser-well-known ones?
20:03:47 <clokep_work> You mean have a small list, and then when you click "other" they all get smaller and show what we have now?
20:04:02 <clokep_work> I would think if you wanted to do something like that it would make more sense to have a tickbox of "show all protocols" or something.
20:05:20 <aleth> Yeah, I mentioned I wasn't sure about the best UI.
20:07:16 <clokep_work> I'd like to try it before offering an opinoin.
20:07:17 <aleth> It just seems to me that you are selecting a protocol from a list. We're just highlighting 4 options initially. What does "Other..." do if not expand the list?
20:07:19 <aleth> I'm not sure it makes a huge difference, just wanted to bring it up for discussion.
20:08:13 <clokep_work> It could work.
20:08:35 <aleth> "Other..." might mean the user wonders whether he will get a list of other protocols (not including the ones in the first list)
20:09:06 <aleth> I'm not sure it's an issue either...
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20:10:12 <clokep_work> Yes, perhaps "Other..." isn't the best phrase.
20:10:18 * clokep_work hates bike shedding about language...
20:10:25 <aleth> It's not about the language
20:10:50 <aleth> It's about having two successive steps/pages when what is really happening is adding items to the listbox
20:10:57 <aleth> But I don't like the tickbox idea much either I think.
20:11:12 <Mic|web> Ah, yes. It's in the "Code Snippets" wiki article
20:11:19 <Mic|web> @clokep_work 
20:11:21 <Mic|web> gtg, bye
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20:11:36 <clokep_work> aleth: It's not just "adding items" you're also changing the whole styling of the items.
20:11:37 * aleth shuts up now as UI discussions in the abstract do descend into bike-shedding quite quickly ;) 
20:11:40 <clokep_work> That's why I hesitate.
20:12:33 <clokep_work> (And yes an animation could make that look reasonable...but I'm not positive. :))
20:13:04 <flo> the reason why I don't want long description for the whole list is that these descriptions need to be localized, and that doesn't really make sense for networks that don't exist in the localizer's country (they are likely to not even know what that network is)
20:13:17 <flo> ask the average American what QQ or Gadu-Gadu is...
20:13:58 <flo> (not sure an "average American" exists more than an "average user" though, that was poorly phrased :))
20:14:24 <aleth> I'm kind of surprised nobody has asked for a Weibo protocol yet...
20:14:39 <aleth> Maybe not so many IB users in China ;)
20:15:17 <wnayes> I'm looking into XBL bindings, which would make specifying two distinct richlistitem types feasible. Simply swapping entries from one to another is not entirely trivial when one control is a richlistbox and another a plain listbox. :)
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20:26:25 <clokep_work> You could make them both richlistboxes. ;) Or a single richlistbox which has the proper ID, etc. and you simply swap the bindings using CSS.
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20:44:47 <flo> aleth: what was the point of removing the second step, by the way?
20:47:04 <aleth> It just seemed like it might be clearer. Of course there is a 'second step', but should it be in the form of a second page? Anyway, I'm not sure about it, just a suggestion to play with.
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20:49:44 <flo> aleth: I don't see where there would be any visual difference between it being a second step or not
20:50:40 <aleth> That depends on how it is implemented... 
20:50:42 <flo> The logical interaction is first you select something in the list (either a popular protocol or "others") then you click next.
20:51:04 <aleth> It's having to click 
20:51:12 <aleth> 'next' that would be avoided
20:51:23 <flo> that next is cheap
20:51:25 <aleth> (for showing the complete list)
20:51:49 <flo> we intend "others" to be clicked only by very few users, if our selection of popular protocols is right
20:53:15 <clokep_work> I think the current design is good enough that it should be tested before we decide it isn't. :P
20:53:51 <flo> clokep_work: I'll need to reach the patch carefully tomorrow before knowing what the current design is exactly ;)
20:53:55 <flo> *read
20:54:11 <aleth> I didn't say it wasn't good enough ;) Was just a suggestion for wnayes to play around with (or not)
20:55:17 <flo> I think at this point helping wnayes to learn XBL would be more valuable than confusing him with alternative UI designs, but feel free to have a different opinion :)
20:55:48 <aleth> flo: But you might end up with say a third of users who end up clicking "Others" a lot ;) 
20:55:50 <Mook_as> making him learn XBL? you don't like him, do you? :p
20:55:53 <Mook_as> (at least it's not RDF)
20:56:22 <clokep_work> I was about to make that RDF joke. :(
20:56:55 <Mook_as> hey, xul templates-with-sqlite is still available... :p
20:57:13 <Mook_as> (so under-documented nobody even remembers it as a joke)
20:57:23 <clokep_work> Yeah I don't know that one...
20:57:31 <clokep_work> wnayes: Let us know if you have questions about XBL...it can be...interesting.
20:58:23 <wnayes> I'll soon see, compiling something with XBL now :)
20:58:58 <Mook_as> XBL is actually pretty awesome, it just has poor error reporting.
20:59:06 <clokep_work> And poor inheritance.
20:59:37 <aleth> And some missing features that can really annoy.
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21:03:24 <clokep_work> That's why there'll be XBL2.
21:03:25 <clokep_work> ;)
21:10:57 <flo> Mook_as: I didn't know there's been any jokes about these sqlite templates. All I know about them is that asking laurentj for help on #xulfr is required to do anything with them.
21:12:40 <flo> aleth: "flo: But you might end up with say a third of users who end up clicking "Others" a lot ;) " A "third" seems completely arbitrary here ;). Plus clicking "others" a lot would require setting up accounts a lot, which only developers are ever likely to do...
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21:14:01 <Mook_as> telemetry time!
21:16:08 <flo> Mook_as: is that your new joke topic?
21:16:31 <Mook_as> no, that's a slightly-serious-but-needs-too-much-infra suggestion
21:17:36 <flo> aaaah, that was related to the "a third" thing
21:18:37 <Mook_as> yeah, that
21:18:58 <Mook_as> though actually tracking the most popular protocols would be more useful, I think
21:20:13 <flo> I almost suggested taking the data from Adium, but I don't think they do their stats per-locale, so it's not really relevant :(
21:25:55 <clokep_work> The other option is to do a survey.
21:26:00 <clokep_work> Of which I started making a few weeks ago...
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23:02:08 <DGMurdockIII> hey guys
23:02:56 <DGMurdockIII> you know that when i try to check for updates it wont just get trying to connect
23:03:03 <DGMurdockIII> it will only work
23:03:16 <DGMurdockIII> if there actally update avable
23:03:30 <DGMurdockIII> this has been only haping recently
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23:55:29 <instant-buildbot> build #247 of linux-onCommit is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-onCommit/builds/247