#instantbird log on 04 02 2012

All times are UTC.

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02:57:38 <instant-buildbot> build #449 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/449
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04:41:01 <instant-buildbot> build #533 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/533
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06:02:23 <instant-buildbot> build #437 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/437
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09:40:19 <flo> there's an email titled "Can't connect Google Talk" sent to the contact mailing list 11 days ago that doesn't seem to have received a reply
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09:56:40 <Mic> hmm, not in my (Yahoo!) inbox. Maybe it ended in the junk-folder of some clients :(
09:57:04 <flo> it was in my spam folder in gmail
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11:08:48 <flo> I'm sending another set of 12 spammy bugmail to Tb/IM watchers ;)
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11:19:27 <flo> uh, after processing all the emails related to these aurora-approval requests and check-in, I still have 49 unread bugmail conversations :-S
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11:23:41 <aleth> Might just be a big rush of bug filings after the TB/IM launch, and things will settle down again?
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11:36:19 <clokep_work> Thanks for all that mail flo. :P Didn't expect to get like 20 emails in the 35 minutes it took me to get to work. ;)
11:37:30 * clokep_work notes there's two bugs checked into c-c that we need to check into ib...
12:05:36 <clokep_work> (bug 740749 and bug 740680 :))
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12:22:26 <flo> 740749 also needs aurora approval
12:22:30 <flo> not sure about the other
12:24:41 <flo> when we can take the whole patch, importing the changeset is quite easy: hg export -R ../comm-checkin/ -r 381736b3d3b9 |hg import -
12:26:27 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/d6500f8161e8 - OHZEKI Tetsuharu - Bug 740680 - TB-IM: Remove #! from copying Twitter's tweet url. r=clokep
12:26:29 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/246aa0e44460 - Andreas Nilsson - Bug 737466 - The Twitter icon should be their bird logo rather than a "t". r=florian, r,ui-r=bwinton
12:26:30 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/d599c7bc8895 - Patrick Cloke - Bug 740749 - Starting a conversation with an IRC contact does not remove it from the online contacts list. r=florian
12:47:01 <clokep_work> :)
12:49:37 <clokep_work> I can mark those as read in my inbox now. ;)
12:55:30 <flo> If that book really exists, having a copy may be interesting :-D http://xkcd.com/1024/
12:57:00 <Mic> Sounds good :D
12:57:15 <flo> or maybe it needs to be personalized?
12:57:28 <flo> Error 401: Go drive the AMI!
12:57:30 <flo> ;)
13:00:04 <Mic> Error 404: AMI not found.
13:00:29 <Mic> Doesn't seem to work for me ;)
13:01:05 <flo> well, actually "Error 401" would be "you forgot the AMI's key at home"
13:03:48 <flo> (as you can see, the AMI had some good company yesterday: http://queze.net/goinfre/mamie/idealeds-20120401/IMG_9970.JPG)
13:13:30 <Mic> The second one on the left hand side is yours?
13:13:51 <flo> there's only one AMI on the picture
13:14:37 <flo> and yes, it's the second one on the left hand side
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14:01:40 <clokep_work> Seems like a good book to me too. :)
14:07:52 * clokep_work grumbles about stupid IM protocols.
14:08:28 <flo> ah, you have read my comment? :)
14:08:37 <clokep_work> Yes.
14:08:40 <clokep_work> Makes sense.
14:08:50 <clokep_work> I would never have thought of the other way of doing it.
14:08:57 <clokep_work> But then it makes sense to keep it in the XMPP code, yes.
14:10:20 <flo> + I think twitter.js currently does some strange magic with the sendTyping method
14:11:18 <clokep_work> That's possible. :)
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14:12:15 <flo> (for the character count)
14:15:05 <clokep_work> Yeah, I figured that's what it was for...
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14:43:31 <clokep_work> flo: bug 1346...isn't that pretty much the same as my code?
14:43:34 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1346 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Replace alphabetic increment of last letter on nick collision
14:43:59 <flo> clokep_work: your code changes letters
14:44:18 <flo> I expected that we would just revert to the old libpurple behavior
14:46:08 <clokep_work> flo: How so? I mean it increments the letters I think, but only for the case that the letter is a #.
14:46:15 <clokep_work> (That's what it's supposed to do at least. :))
14:46:48 <flo> so which code were you referring to with "my code"?
14:47:30 <flo> ah, in comment 5?
14:47:42 <clokep_work> flo: Yes.
14:47:47 <flo> it seems super complicated, and strange
14:47:50 <clokep_work> Actually we don't even increment it, we just use the index.
14:47:57 <clokep_work> But you don't parse ints. :P
14:48:08 <clokep_work> I find your code harder to follow personally, but OK.
14:48:20 <flo> "you check the last character, if it's 0 - 8, you increment to 1 - 9, if it's anything else you append a 0 or a 1." that means you do nick9 -> nick90
14:48:25 <clokep_work> Yes.
14:48:41 <clokep_work> Ah, I see your code would increment 19 --> 20.
14:48:42 <flo> wouldn't you expect that to become nick10?
14:48:50 <clokep_work> It depends what the desired behavior is.
14:49:35 <clokep_work> Your way probably makes more sense then.
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14:55:35 <aleth> It seems noone liked the idea of occasionally checking whether one could revert to the original nick? ;)
14:56:12 <flo> aleth: I didn't even see what you meant with that
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14:56:51 <flo> if you have a nick collision, then it's because you have already tested all the previous nicks you could try
14:57:20 <flo> if an account is disconnected, when reconnecting it should start with the default nick, not with the nick it had before the disconnection
14:57:35 <flo> so if you have a collision, you have always already tested that nick
14:57:43 <aleth> Aha! It's that last bit I didn't realize.
14:57:50 <clokep_work> Yes, I think that's what my last comment said.
14:57:54 <clokep_work> (Perhaps poorly though.)
14:58:23 <flo> I hadn't seen that comment yet :-/
14:58:27 <aleth> In that case it makes no sense of course.
14:58:29 <flo> yes, you said the same thing
15:00:10 <clokep_work> So yeah, the assumption is that we've already tested that nick. :)
15:00:59 <aleth> clokep_work: I hadn't seen your latest comment until just now.
15:02:13 <flo> I'm still dealing with my backlog of bugmail from Friday evening :-/
15:03:20 <clokep_work> aleth: Does it make sense? flo's pseudo-code makes sense though.
15:03:46 <flo> ah? I thought my code was harder to follow :-P
15:04:42 <aleth> Either makes sense, I was just wrong about the behaviour on reconnect.  & I think you and flo are proposing different numbering schemes, the code isn't the issue there.
15:05:45 <clokep_work> flo: Once I realized you were going for a different end point it made sense. :)
15:06:03 <clokep_work> Yes, I've decided flo's numbering scheme makes more sense!
15:06:17 <aleth> One could wonder if someone whose nick is Paul82 wants to go up to Paul83 or would prefer Paul821... not sure if one should worry too much about that case though
15:06:37 <flo> that should definitely be addressed by the other bug
15:07:00 <aleth> That would be a good way to handle it.
15:08:05 <clokep_work> Yeah, that's kind of what I was going for, but I agree...let's just make the current sucky behavior not suck. :)
15:10:30 <flo> my point of view is: we tried to be clever and invent something great. It isn't as good as we hoped, let's instead revert to the behavior libpurple had so that it's not perceived as a regression for people upgrading from 1.1. We can add further improvements later :)
15:12:25 <aleth> Testing stuff like that is what nightlies are for :)
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15:13:22 <clokep_work> Exactly.
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15:42:31 <clokep_work> Are we doing a meeting today...?
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15:47:42 <clokep_work> I'm going to assume not and eat instead. ;)
15:48:06 <aleth> Well, flo has gone already... ;) Enjoy :D
15:51:09 <clokep_work> Yup. :)
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16:08:28 <logiclord> any feedback on my proposal ?
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16:57:48 <clokep_work> logiclord: I read it. I'll try to email you this afternoon.
17:04:26 <clokep_work> logiclord: Actually, I'm not sure how much feedback I have...I think it could definitely use a few more reads over though.
17:05:04 <clokep_work> Do you know if Mozilla toolkit supports talking to the gnome-keyring, KWallet, etc.?
17:06:22 <clokep_work> It sounds like you want to run this during installation? I don't think that's possible (as the application isn't installed yet :P) and that we'd want to run it on first run.
17:07:32 <clokep_work> A few times you say things like "Protocol based XPCOM components", are those XPCOM components that implement an interface to import data from a different client?
17:07:41 <logiclord> clokep_work after installation (like if there is an event to know that we are running instantbird first time )
17:08:12 <clokep_work> logiclord: OK, well it seems to show a window showing the end of the installation wizard, that's why I ask.
17:08:23 <logiclord> we can query gnome-keyring etc via command and c
17:08:32 <logiclord> still exploring about js xpcom
17:08:42 <logiclord> *system commandline
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17:09:03 <clokep_work> I'm just confused at why you're saying "protocol based" everywhere, aren't they really client specific? (I.e. Pidgin is multiprotocol...)
17:09:10 <clokep_work> "via command and c"? What?
17:09:46 <clokep_work> SEems like you have a couple things dulicated in the schedule btw.
17:10:47 <Mook_as> gnome-keyring seems to be https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=309807 , kwallet seems to be https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=278343
17:10:51 <Mook_as> (so, neither is implemented)
17:11:08 <clokep_work> Ah, interesting.
17:11:55 <clokep_work> Mook_as: Although I was more interested in whether it had been researched or not. ;)
17:12:07 <Mook_as> well, the kwallet one seems to have an extension...
17:13:11 <clokep_work> logiclord: I think that's all my comments for now... :-/ Not very detailed, sorry.
17:16:36 <logiclord> I can implement commandline version easily ... moreover I planned to implement them during project only (under design)
17:19:56 <Mook_as> implementing it securely is harder ;)
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17:20:26 <logiclord> clokep_work : protocol based means every protocol will have a separate xpcom component 
17:20:40 <logiclord> e.g. 1 for pidgin 
17:20:58 <aleth> logiclord: Why do you have a step in the mockup where the user can change the password/username of an imported account? I would have thought if I want to import some settings, I won't need to change them, and if I want to change them, I won't import them. Maybe it's enough to just display some of the info for identification (not the password of course)
17:21:54 <aleth> logiclord: You mean "client" (pidgin, empathy, ...) not "protocol" (icq, xmpp, msn...), right?
17:22:11 <logiclord> aleth : yes
17:22:13 <logiclord> my bad
17:22:16 <logiclord> :(
17:22:22 <logiclord> aleth : I thought we may have a user using 2 different client 1 with current password other with old one 
17:23:32 <logiclord> e.g. I may have used pidgin for a while for gmail account and then switched to google talk (with changed password)
17:23:42 <logiclord> we will ask user to resolve conflict 
17:23:58 <aleth> logiclord: Right, it's a good idea to handle that problem. Maybe it would be better to not import anything if there are conflicts? Or ask the user only after he has tried to import both (rather than selecting one)?
17:24:30 <aleth> logiclord: I just think the import wizard is not a good place to enter/change passwords
17:24:48 <aleth> Others may disagree of course...
17:25:02 <logiclord> aleth : we can have a separate step (if there is a conflict)
17:27:17 <aleth> Or just go ahead and import both, and the user can delete one later? (Just thinking aloud here, I'm not sure what the best answer is. You've probably thought about this more.)
17:29:38 <logiclord> aleth : My next steps include if we can verify user credentials 
17:30:14 <aleth> Sounds good :)
17:30:33 <aleth> I'm sorry if I missed that, I only just looked at the link.
17:30:58 <logiclord> aleth : all feedbacks appreciated :)
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17:59:56 <logiclord> protocol based type fixed sry about confusion :)
18:17:50 <clokep_work> aleth: It makes sense to show options if there are a conflict and to allow a user to edit all options before importing.
18:18:22 <clokep_work> You can't import both if they have the same account name!
18:18:46 <clokep_work> You either need to try connecting both and see which works or manually allow the user to select the correct one (which involves showing a password in plaintext btw.)
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18:20:00 <clokep_work> Handling the conflict is tricky (you oculd show there's a conflict and try to "autoresolve" it for passwords by connecting with both and seeing which works :P)
18:20:10 <clokep_work> But it's trickier if you have like different aliases...which do you use?
18:20:53 <aleth> clokep_work: Yes, that's basically what I meant. Show options /if/ there is a conflict. Handling the conflict is not obvious what is best. 
18:21:55 <aleth> Testing the password seems better than showing it in plaintext imho. Certainly speaking for myself, I wouldn't recognize which od two passwords was correct...
18:22:46 <clokep_work> You have good passwords then. :P
18:23:18 <aleth> You could import both, if you modified the account names (e.g. to name_pidgin and name_empathy)...
18:23:27 <aleth> Not that I am suggesting that
18:25:48 <clokep_work> No, you can't do that.
18:25:56 <clokep_work> The account name == how we connect the account.
18:26:02 <clokep_work> (Maybe that's not good, but it's how it is...)
18:28:14 <aleth> Sure, it would require implementing that suggestion we had once, of making the account name editable.
18:28:27 <clokep_work> Yup! :)
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18:53:11 <deOmega1> h birders.. any luck with the session restore feature?
18:53:18 <deOmega1> *hi
18:53:48 <clokep_work> deOmega1: I don't think anyone is working on that right now...
18:54:33 <deOmega1> Okay
18:54:36 <deOmega1> thank u
18:54:58 <clokep_work> Sorry. :(
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19:12:57 <deOmega1> :(
19:13:07 <deOmega1> have a great one clokep
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23:06:27 <clokep> Good evening!
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