#instantbird log on 03 31 2012

All times are UTC.

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02:46:15 <instant-buildbot> build #447 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/447
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04:41:07 <instant-buildbot> build #531 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/531
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06:03:24 <instant-buildbot> build #435 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/435
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07:23:52 <flo> I think it should be quite possible to create an hg diff containing a commit message without using mq
07:26:27 <flo> maybe |hg commit -m "message" && hg export tip > filename.patch && hg rollback|
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07:33:40 <flo> clokep: what do you think should be the expected behavior for this: 1. someone with the nick "jb" talks to me (in private). 2. "jb" pings timeout, reconnects as "jc", talks to me again (opening another tab). 3. "jc" /nick s to "jb", I end up with 2 private conversation tabs with "jb".
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08:53:21 <aleth> Maybe there should be a different styling for tabs that are disconnected or where the conv partner has left? (i.e. grayed out rather than black text)
08:53:29 <aleth> Then you could distinguish the two tabs
08:55:39 <flo> aleth: isn't there already a different styling? (with a question mark on the icons for private conversations, and a grey dot above the icon for multi-user chats)
08:56:53 <aleth> That's true. I don't think I've ever noticed the MUC version so far
08:57:17 <aleth> Good, so that's probably enough?
08:57:52 <aleth> Certainly for normal conversations it's very noticeable, no idea why it slipped my mind
09:25:57 <flo> maybe because it's not noticeable enough for you? ;)
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12:51:47 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com denied review for attachment 1288 on bug 1346.
12:51:49 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1346 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Replace alphabetic increment of last letter on nick collision
12:52:04 <clokep> aleth Didn't really ask for review, but...yeah. :)
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13:38:36 <ff10-User> moin
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14:28:18 <logiclord> how to get logs directory ? 
14:29:35 <aleth> logiclord: Preferences -> Privacy -> Show logs folder
14:29:50 <logiclord> no I mean in an extension 
14:30:00 <logiclord> If i am building an extension
14:30:15 <aleth> No idea. Look at what that part of the code does?
14:30:24 <aleth> Or at viewlog.js?
14:30:42 <logiclord> okay
14:31:17 <logiclord> and any idea which part of the code work in clear private data in firefox ?
14:31:55 <aleth> I don't quite understand the question
14:32:19 <logiclord> I am working on https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=399
14:32:26 <instantbot> Bug 399 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add "Clear private data" to Privacy preferences
14:32:58 <logiclord> I thought to give it a try as a extension
14:34:09 <aleth> For an extension, you can do what you like :) For IB, it looks like no complete decision was reached yet in that discussion on what was wanted.
14:34:29 <logiclord> yes that't why an extension 
14:34:35 <aleth> Good idea.
14:35:41 <aleth> But re your question, apart from possibly the "clear private data" name I think it has nothing to do with firefox.
14:36:23 <clokep> And clearing private data in this case is essentially logs AFAIK.
14:36:31 <aleth> Firefox has all those sql databases...
14:36:47 <clokep> And to get the logs directory, I believe it's part of the imIAccount interface.
14:38:11 <clokep> Bah that's wrong...it's not...
14:38:21 <clokep> There might not be an easy way to get all logs for an account
14:38:53 <clokep> Well there's: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/components/src/logger.js#63 but that's not exported.
14:38:58 <aleth> bug 1238 might turn out to be related
14:39:01 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1238 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, No way to view logs for which no buddy or current conversation exists
14:39:25 <clokep> No, I think not.
14:39:27 <aleth> i.e. the need to build a list of logs
14:39:50 <clokep> I think you'd just need to add something to the interface which is clearLogs (with an optional time period or "since" date or something).
14:40:02 <clokep> Although that can't be done in an extension logiclord. ;)
14:40:16 <clokep> (Well I don't think so?)
14:40:20 <aleth> Yes, and then find all the logs within that time ;) which means you have to assemble a list of existing logs
14:40:51 <logiclord> I don't mind diving into the code then
14:41:08 <clokep> Perhaps.
14:41:09 <aleth> Once you have that, you can fix bug1238. That's the relation I meant
14:41:16 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1238 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, No way to view logs for which no buddy or current conversation exists
14:42:00 <logiclord> Will try in the coming week :) ... and before the deadline of proposal ;)
14:45:37 <clokep> Feel free to ask any questions.
14:50:36 <logiclord> thanks 
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20:18:25 <flo> uh, I've 4 instances of each auto-joined XMPP muc on hold in my list of conversations on hold :-(
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21:21:26 <aleth> It's nice to see how rapidly add-on updates are pushed out to users
21:21:55 <aleth> Within 5 days or so the migration is over
21:24:42 <flo> they are pushed automatically, aren't they?
21:25:19 <aleth> Yes
21:25:28 <flo> I'm not sure if users have an opportunity to not install an update if they haven't unchecked "check for add-on updates" in the prefs
21:25:33 <aleth> I'd just not looked at the statistics before
21:25:55 <flo> I don't look at the stats of my add-ons, I prefer looking at http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/stats/
21:26:38 <flo> (notice that the last 2 weeks have done a tiny bit better than all the previous weeks of 2012; without us doing any communication)
21:27:10 <flo> s/the last 2/2 of the last 3/ actually
21:27:11 <aleth> Overall it seems to have reached a steady state
21:27:34 <aleth> I wonder if one overlaid blog posts if one could tell
21:28:26 <aleth> But its great if the TB chat leads to more people discovering IB too :)
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21:30:23 <aleth> There does seem to be possibly a little spike after Feb 25
21:30:29 <aleth> Hard to tell though
21:35:05 <flo> maybe the final release of Tb 13 will help
21:35:39 <flo> I still don't have a Thunderbird oauth twitter key to put in there, so for now it still claims to be instantbird ;)
21:35:55 <flo> all tweets made from Thunderbird link to www.instantbird.com on the twitter website :-P
21:35:56 <aleth> That's one way to hear about it :D
21:37:02 <flo> I've been quite busy all day long today, and will be offline tomorrow (driving the AMI :))
21:37:19 <aleth> As long as not every chat message ends in "Sent from my Instantbird" ;)
21:37:29 <aleth> It's the weekend after all :)
21:37:44 <flo> so I haven't read bugmail from yesterday evening yet!
21:38:17 <flo> and I see emails titled "feedback/review requested" that don't contain the "instantbird" tag, that's... uh... scary :-D
21:38:38 <flo> I'll have to feel guilty about 2 review queues instead of one now :-/
21:38:55 <aleth> That's a lot on your plate :(
21:39:25 <flo> I've been busy today visiting houses
21:39:47 <flo> I'd like to buy one eventually ;). If I do then I'll have some construction work to do/review too ;)
21:40:21 <aleth> Review patches to walls by builders... makes a change ;)
21:40:32 <flo> sure!
21:41:03 <aleth> Sounds fun too actually
21:41:07 <flo> "visiting houses" actually, showing to my parents the houses I've visited during the week where I feel I could live.
21:41:22 <aleth> Good luck finding the right spot!
21:42:09 <flo> I'm currently interested in one where it's possible to get internet through optical fiber instead of DSL. (at little bit too expensive though, so I'm trying to negotiate the price)
21:42:24 <flo> s/at/a/
21:43:21 <aleth> Huh, all my IB tooltips have just gone solid black
21:43:41 <flo> both the text color and the background color are black?
21:43:45 <aleth> Yes
21:43:47 <flo> (if so, that doesn't seem good :()
21:43:49 <aleth> Only the icons show up
21:44:01 <aleth> Ah, restoring from hold fixes it :) So not /too/ bad
21:46:41 <flo> that weird!
21:47:07 <aleth> I wonder if it's some bizarre moz11 thing
21:47:19 <aleth> Tooltips forgetting their background color...
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22:06:10 <qheaden> flo: Hi again! Did I ever send you a copy of my new error console proposal?
22:06:49 <flo> qheaden: hello! I don't remember (if you sent it only to clokep it's possible he forwarded to me).
22:07:32 <flo> qheaden: I'm going to bed very soon and probably won't be online much tomorrow, so don't expect feedback from me until Monday *at least*.
22:07:41 <qheaden> flo: Yeah, I did send it to clokep, although he never got back to me. I know he's been busy.
22:08:03 <qheaden> flo: Oh ok. Well, I'll send it to your email. The student application deadline is in 5 days, so please get back to me as soon as possible. :)
22:08:36 <flo> it's Friday?
22:09:04 <qheaden> Yeah, according to their site.
22:09:25 <flo> qheaden: if the proposal is still the same as the latest I've read, my overall feedback would be that it's not clear which feature will be implemented/provided exactly.
22:09:30 <qheaden> Either Friday, or Saturday. It says 5 days, 20 hours remaining.
22:09:43 <flo> iirc it said mostly that it would be verbose logging
22:09:51 <qheaden> Yeah, it says Friday, April 6th.
22:10:11 <flo> but not really how it would be possible to interact with it/how it would be better than what we currently have in the error console
22:10:12 <qheaden> Yeah, I made the proposal much more detailed, explaining my approach, and why I am approaching the problem that way.
22:12:22 <qheaden> flo: OK. I sent the proposal to your email. Look at it whenever you can. :)
22:13:15 <flo> "May 11 - May 31: Create a version of the new protocol console with only basic functionality. I will work from a modified version of the error console." You need to tell us what "basic functionality" means.
22:13:53 <flo> "Upgrade the protocol console from the “basic”status" doesn't mean anything that can let us evaluate at this time if you have actually reached that goal or not.
22:14:23 <qheaden> OK. That makes sense.
22:14:49 <flo> "when using Google Talk, or other XMPP based messaging services, developers would be able to see XML stanza messages being sent between the client and server." you know this is already the case, right?
22:15:08 <flo> what you need to tell us is what you will do to make it more usable
22:15:46 <flo> I don't think the rant about Firefox's webconsole not being ported to toolkit is very relevant
22:16:06 <qheaden> ok
22:17:01 <flo> try to explain clearly which problem you are trying to fix. How you are going to do it (both how this solution helps the user/developer/whoever is the intended user of the feature and technically what do you plan to do).
22:17:23 <qheaden> flo: Do you think it would be good to just briefly mention that the webconsole is Firefox only?
22:17:37 <flo> "not only view, but also inspect protocol-level messages." what does "inspect" mean in that context? What can I do exactly?
22:18:54 <qheaden> flo: How important do you think inspection is right now? When I say inspection, I mean being able to pick apart certain sections of a message just like the browser developer tools can pick apart attributes of the HTML elements.
22:19:37 <flo> I don't know what that means until you explain how some parts will be hidden until the user "inspects" something...
22:21:59 <flo> also, you really need to show us that you spent thinking about it yourself rather than just reformatting the comments we have given here. (at this point I'm not completely sure if you have tried the current error console with verbose logging enabled or not; that doesn't help your application ;))
22:22:16 <flo> *spent some time
22:22:36 <qheaden> Now that I am thinking about it, I'm not sure if it will be feasible to add the ability to pick apart the messages since each protocol has a certain message system.
22:22:39 <flo> (us = people who will read/evaluate the proposal)
22:23:47 <flo> have you looked at the way JS protocols currently use to log debug messages?
22:24:20 <qheaden> You mean JS logging messages to the error console?
22:24:39 <qheaden> I've used the error console quite frequently with Firefox to help me figure out problems with my code.
22:25:55 <flo> you are increasing my doubts on whether you have actually tried the current error console with verbose logging enabled
22:27:41 <flo> hint: look at purple.debug.loglevel and initLogModule (use http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/ to browse the code easily)
22:28:14 <qheaden> My loglevel is 3 right now.
22:28:24 <qheaden> Lower log levels give more verbosity?
22:29:18 * qheaden now sees the console in verbose mode.
22:29:58 <qheaden> MUCH better! So basically, it does already seem to log some protocol messages.
22:32:50 <flo> it logs everything already
22:33:35 <qheaden> So basically, we are just trying to seperate those messages into their own section, away from other error/warning messages, and possibly make them more detailed?
22:33:49 <flo> so the problem is not really getting more information, but making it available in a more useful form
22:34:02 <qheaden> Gotcha.
22:34:26 <flo> example of use case: one user complain that his account XXX is behaving strangely
22:34:46 <flo> how do we help him fix that/provide us the information we need to help him/understand what's going on
22:35:22 <qheaden> Also, the new console could allow the developer to open different tabs for each protocol instead of bunching them up together.
22:35:37 <qheaden> BTW, what do you think about the name "protocol console" I used in the proposal?
22:37:00 <flo> the name is just an envelop for a concept / ideas. I'm interested in the content of the envelop, not the envelop ;).
22:37:11 <qheaden> :)
22:37:54 <flo> I should really be asleep already, I've got to get up early tomorrow and I'm really tired. I think I've given you some food for thoughts so that you can refine your proposal :) Good evening/night/whatever's appropriate for you time zone :)
22:38:13 <qheaden> I understand. Thanks a million for the help. I'll be back to you soon with a new proposal.
22:38:22 <qheaden> its probably going to be pretty different. :)
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