#instantbird log on 03 26 2012

All times are UTC.

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02:54:52 <instant-buildbot> build #442 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/442
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04:47:42 <instant-buildbot> build #526 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/526
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06:02:27 <instant-buildbot> build #430 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/430
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08:49:46 <Mic> Hello.
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09:26:32 <BYK> hi Mic 
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09:40:54 <flo> hello :)
09:41:03 <flo> so it seems we will skip libpurple 2.10.2 ;)
09:43:31 <EionRobb> slowpokes
09:43:46 <EionRobb> :)
09:48:36 <BYK> flo: Any thoughts on integrating t.co resolving for Twitter?
09:48:47 <flo> BYK: we already do it
09:49:04 <BYK> flo: I'm using the nightly and don't see it? :(
09:49:05 <flo> except if something has changed recently on the twitter side
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09:49:18 <BYK> flo: Ah sorry, I see it sometimes
09:49:26 <BYK> I guess it doesn't work for twitpic or ismilar things
09:49:39 <flo> BYK: it doesn't work for tweats coming from the search API which is a piece of crap
09:49:47 <flo> BYK: you said t.co
09:49:47 <BYK> flo: Any thoughts about embedding inline image viewing for picture services used in twitter? :D :P
09:50:08 <BYK> flo: Yeah, I saw a t.co address which resolved into a twitpic url
09:50:36 <BYK> 12:23:53 - pijava: yok bu ulkenin topraginda suyunda bi bokluk var, uluslararasi sirket pfizer bile buraya gelince 'erkeklige' sarilmis http://t.co/fqbLRlL2
09:50:48 <BYK> the text is in turkish thought the url is not resolved
09:50:53 <flo> usually for "Any thoughts about <whatever>? :P" the answer is "no :P"
09:51:28 <BYK> flo: That's good, because I have the intention :D
09:51:36 <flo> because a question finishing with ":P" rarely deserves any thoughts
09:52:06 <BYK> flo: Ah, that was because I asked two things in a row where the first one was already implemented.
09:53:36 * flo wonders if anybody has any thoughts about fixing the bugs in https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=sw%3A1.2&list_id=809
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09:54:38 <BYK> flo: I'll be on bug 958 once I finish the translations
09:54:41 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=958 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Show last messages (history) in new chat windows
09:54:44 <BYK> flo: Boy, you do have a large FAQ
09:56:30 <flo> I think I could have some use for an add-on removing "flo: " from the beginning of each of BYK's message :)
09:57:13 <BYK> Haha :D Sorry about that. I jsut want to make sure your window flashes when I say something specifically to you ;)
09:57:30 <flo> my window never flashes; I'm on Mac.
09:57:36 <BYK> Duh! :D
09:57:53 <BYK> Alright though, I'll stop that
09:58:06 <flo> thanks :)
10:00:28 <BYK> About bug 1046, what about not showing the account manager at all and notify the user via the built-in notification system?
10:00:31 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1046 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Account window shows up on disconnect/reconnect
10:00:52 <BYK> And if the user clicks on the notification, then the maanger windows is shown?
10:01:07 <flo> the notification is shown for 5 seconds
10:01:18 <flo> I expect most people's coffee breaks to take longer
10:03:10 <BYK> Do we have an option for persistent notifications? OR may be we can change the dock/window icon to something that shows the status like a broken connection or spinning arrows to show that we are trying to reconnect?
10:03:49 <BYK> I know Windows 7 has support for such things and Mac probably does too but I'm not sure about the Linux world, especially for KDE
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10:31:33 <flo> clokep: hello :)
10:31:40 <clokep> Hello fl.
10:32:17 <flo> when I try to send a message in an IRC conversation of a disconnected account, there's no user-visible feedback that it failed + the message appears in the conversation
10:32:31 <clokep> Oh? Hmmm...
10:32:48 <flo> in the error console I see "Warning: Failed to convert PRIVMSG NickServ :test from Unicode to UTF-8. Source File: file:///.../components/irc.js Line: 772
10:32:51 <clokep> Well we no longer check if you're in the room, but I think we check if you're offline before trying to send...but I doubt we throw an error message.
10:33:04 <flo> followed by Error: Socket error: TypeError: this._socket is null
10:33:08 <flo> I think we can do better! :)
10:33:15 <clokep> I agree.
10:33:27 <flo> I tried that in a nickserv conversation
10:33:31 <flo> (in Thunderbird!)
10:34:47 <FeuerFliege_TB> hi
10:35:48 <flo> FeuerFliege_TB: hello :)
10:37:12 <clokep> Alright.
10:37:23 <clokep> Yeah we should be able to do better fairly easily. :P Mind filing a bug?
10:37:54 <flo> I'm alreading filing it :)
10:38:35 <flo> oh, you are default cc for the irc component
10:38:47 <flo> aren't you a global watcher anyway?
10:39:17 <clokep> Yes.
10:39:28 <clokep> It seemed ot make sense though...
10:40:06 <flo> I don't mind it. Just doesn't seem very useful :)
10:40:20 <clokep> Draws my attention when I read the emails. ;)
10:40:24 <flo> except if you have different email settings when you are cc'ed or just watcher (not sure if it's possible)
10:42:37 <instantbot> New Core - IRC bug 1353 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
10:42:41 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1353 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, No user feedback when sending a message in a conversation of an offline account
10:44:27 <clokep> There might be a header for it I'm not sure.
10:45:02 <flo> you could definitely filter for emails containing "you are receiving this email because you are in the CC list"
10:45:19 <clokep> Yeah.
10:45:25 <clokep> Unfortunately I think I'm CCed on like every Instantbird bug. ;)
10:46:05 <clokep> So for that bug...I'm not sure if it should be fixed in IRC code or like JsProto code or where. :-/
10:49:43 <flo> socket.jsm?
10:49:58 <flo> well, the crappy errors messages I have in the console come from irc.js
10:50:18 <clokep> Maybe, I think it's hard to write a general message in socket.jsm because some protocols don't show a message in the conversation until it's received back from the server.
10:50:29 <clokep> But crappy protocols show it immediately with no notification of delievery...
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11:14:20 <Mic> oh, cool :)
11:14:35 <Mic> You can close windows from the Aero preview with a middle click. That's nice :)
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14:35:28 <Mic> Hello logiclord :)
14:35:37 <logiclord> Hi Mic
14:38:27 <logiclord> Mic I added iChat and kopete as well :) .... currently messing up with xpcom :-/
14:45:05 <Mic> Yes, I saw that.
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14:45:30 <Mic> "Need to access windows registry for clients like Google talk" -> was that a permission problem or were you just wondering how to do that?
14:49:02 <logiclord> Mic We can access registry in windows but just a confirmation about the privileges that we will need 
14:49:14 <logiclord> I have a sample code as well ;)
14:49:24 <Mic> OK, good :)
14:49:36 <flo> I don't see why you would need additional privileges for reading
14:50:14 <Mic> Is your concern about accessing the registry without telling the user?
14:50:22 <logiclord> Mic : yes
14:50:32 <Mic> I don't think it's better/worse than scanning the harddisk for other clients.
14:50:45 <logiclord> flo : I need to access certain files in linux systems which may require root access
14:51:16 <flo> I meant reading in the registry :)
14:51:56 <logiclord> flo : no nothing special is required for reading from windows registry 
14:52:17 <logiclord> I added that just to pin point that we are going to access it 
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14:52:53 <logiclord> Mic yes we just need to give path to read from
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14:53:08 <Mic> In my opinion it's OK already to do it if the user agreed that we should look for other clients/things to import
14:53:31 <Mic> If it's looking in the registry or the appdata folder is just details then imo
14:53:54 <logiclord> Mic okay we can remove it 
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14:54:29 <Mic> bbl
14:55:31 <logiclord> I was going through developers docs at mozilla and everything seems to be related to or using something else :-/
14:57:01 <flo> what do you mean?
14:59:29 <logiclord> there are broken links in wiki e.g. http://www.ondrejd.info/projects/xpcomviewer/ at https://developer.mozilla.org/en/How_to_Build_an_XPCOM_Component_in_Javascript
15:01:19 <logiclord> similar minor issue.. don't worry I am on it :)
15:04:25 <flo> developer.mozilla.org has lots of good content, but also lots of outdated content ;)
15:07:03 <logiclord> flo : I think we need XUL and XPCOM ... XUL for ui stuff and XPCOM for architecture deisgn and flexibility 
15:07:33 <flo> right. I think each importer should be an XPCOM component
15:08:02 <logiclord> so I need to standardize interfaces ?
15:15:45 <flo> all importers will expose the same xpcom interface to the core
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15:27:09 <Mic> bye
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16:11:55 <metap0d43> Hello?
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16:14:10 <metap0d43> I downloaded InstantBird for windows and I am really enjoying it. I am confused with IRC though. I have made it auto-connect to some channels when I log-in... but isn't there a way to have irc channels appear in the contact list?
16:14:22 <metap0d43> if I close the irc window I have no easy way to get back into a chat
16:14:43 <metap0d43> unless I go to File -> Join Chat... and go back into all of them manually
16:19:02 <clokep_work> metap0d43: What version of Instantbird are you using?
16:19:43 <clokep_work> You can't add chats to the buddy list, but you can "put them on hold" to the buddy list once they're opened.
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16:22:45 <metap0d43> clokep_work: Isn't there a way to make it so if I minimize windows they go on hold?
16:24:16 <clokep_work> If you x out of them they should.
16:24:20 <clokep_work> What version are you using?
16:24:55 <metap0d43> version 1.1
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16:25:15 <metap0d43> if I x out yes, it's just a habit of mine to naturally minimize a window or select conversations from the list
16:26:08 <clokep_work> Do you have each chat in a different window?
16:26:22 <metap0d43> no they are tabbed
16:27:10 <clokep_work> OK, so...you're saying when you minimize the window you want all of your chat rooms to go into the buddy list?
16:27:14 <clokep_work> Isn't that what happens when you close it?
16:27:21 <clokep_work> I don't see how that has anything to do with minimizing. :-/
16:28:36 <Mic> metap0d43: Escape minimizes the conversation window to the taskbar if that's good enough for you?
16:28:48 <Mic> i.e. the 'ESC'-key
16:34:42 <metap0d43> i use escape : P
16:34:45 <metap0d43> the behavior seems weird
16:36:01 <Mic> Why do you think it weird and what would you have expected?
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16:42:15 <metap0d43> Most (technically) all other clients I've used provide access to the chat rooms in the buddy list
16:42:25 <metap0d43> escape normally closes the window, exiting it
16:42:48 <metap0d43> i essentially have to press the X or alt+f4 to put the conversations into the buddy list on hold
16:42:49 <metap0d43> actually
16:42:56 <metap0d43> every single thing is done differently
16:43:26 <metap0d43> also if I add chatroom #xyz and check "Join bla bla on connect"
16:43:31 <metap0d43> there is no option to later remove it
16:43:39 <metap0d43> not a big deal just an annoyance
16:47:11 <clokep_work> metap0d43: That's in the account settings. There's a list of auto-joined channels.
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16:47:54 <metap0d43> Ah well I stand corrected there
16:48:00 <metap0d43> This is just going to take some getting used to
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16:53:02 <clokep_work> Ctrl+w also puts them on hold metap0d43.
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18:04:57 * aleth will fix 1321 once dependencies land
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18:05:20 <aleth> (that was re flos question)
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19:25:34 <flo> so it seems we have another user think Escape should put on hold rather than minimize ;)
19:25:41 <flo> *thinking
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19:31:25 <clokep_work> flo: From #maildev earlier: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/21809
19:32:52 <flo> clokep_work: thanks :)
19:34:51 <clokep_work> Do you know if they log btw?
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19:40:30 <flo> I don't think they do
19:41:10 <flo> are you thinking that instantbot should spend some time over there? :)
19:42:46 <clokep_work> I'm wondering if something should. :P
19:42:51 <clokep_work> But I don't really want to read all those logs. ;)
19:43:15 <flo> I don't want to read them either
19:43:30 <clokep_work> And having them will tempt me. :P
19:43:52 <flo> I may want to see if there was a reply within an hour or two after I said something just before having to go though
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20:05:16 <clokep_work> So you want a secretary to keep messages for you? ;)
20:07:46 <flo> isn't that instantbot's job description?
20:07:58 <clokep_work> People should just use memoserv. ;)
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20:29:03 <clokep_work> flo: Does Pidgin even do half the things mentioned in that email?
20:29:33 <flo> he said he loves Pidgin so much that he uses Gmail all the time ;)
20:30:36 <clokep_work> True. :)
20:32:07 <flo> but yes, Pidgin does all of that
20:32:17 <flo> you can disable individual sounds (I think)
20:32:41 <clokep_work> I think we can disable outgoing sounds only in nightlies.
20:32:45 <Mook_as> sound schemes! :D
20:32:48 <flo> you can use an ugly popup that's part of the stupid toolbar above the textbox to insert a smiley
20:33:04 <flo> and you can display previous messages with a poor plugin that does what it can to parse the stupid logs
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20:33:48 <flo> "I think we can disable outgoing sounds only in nightlies." if you go play with about config, or install an add-on
20:33:54 <aleth> Mic had a nice smiley-inserter-addon in the works ;)
20:34:42 <flo> Mic has a lot of nice but unfinished add-on/WIP patches ;)
20:35:34 <flo> Mook_as: yeah, but I think what we really need is a sound designer that understand that most sounds we play shouldn't be heard, but just give auditory feedback
20:36:03 <Mook_as> or we can default to no sounds and let crazy people add it themselves
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20:40:37 <flo> in case BYK reads the log, @twitterapi has just tweeted "22:28:19 - twitterapi: The issue you may be noticing with t.co links not resolving in Tweet Entities is transient and should be resolved soon. ^TS"
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21:22:55 <DGMurdockIII> hi
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21:23:47 <DGMurdockIII> do you guys now that the instantbird nightly has been crashing when seing a im google talk
21:24:10 <DGMurdockIII> crashed again
21:24:16 <DGMurdockIII> i can send one IM
21:24:44 <DGMurdockIII> i had to use chatzilla to connect to the irc server and channel
21:29:35 <-- aleth has quit (Input/output error)
21:36:18 <DGMurdockIII> hello
21:36:42 <DGMurdockIII> i cant send anyone IM's with out instantburd crashing
21:37:44 <DGMurdockIII> hello
21:38:14 <DGMurdockIII> i would like to know at least that this is a known problem and you are working on it
21:38:30 <DGMurdockIII> is there some way i can  make it know
21:38:50 <DGMurdockIII> i have submited crash reports with info what i was doing when it crashed
21:38:57 <DGMurdockIII> i have done ever update 
21:39:06 <DGMurdockIII> even the ones that where small
21:41:53 <flo> DGMurdockIII: clokep has been seeing this too since the update to Mozilla 11.
21:42:06 <flo> and probably a few other users
21:42:13 <DGMurdockIII> yeah
21:42:22 <flo> but we also have Windows users that still run Instantbird without any problem after that update
21:42:53 <DGMurdockIII> i just got the lastest nightly install
21:42:58 <DGMurdockIII> \form sight
21:43:01 <DGMurdockIII> site
21:43:07 <DGMurdockIII> and now it seem to be ok
21:43:11 <DGMurdockIII> but
21:43:16 <flo> so nobody is really working on it, because we have no idea of the cause. I suspect it's a DLL on the system that causes the problem, but I don't know which one
21:43:23 <Mic> flo: for me escape is inconvenient because it's something I need to do often. Escape to minimize it, alt+tab to get the window back. If I put a conversation on hold though, it's because I don't want to look at it for a while (and will need to use the mouse to get it back anyways).
21:43:53 <DGMurdockIII> i would look at the bug report i sent to see if there any help
21:44:29 <flo> DGMurdockIII: they are all in this list, right? http://crash-stats.instantbird.com/report/list?product=Instantbird&query_search=signature&query_type=exact&query=&date=&range_value=3&range_unit=days&process_type=all&plugin_field=&plugin_query_type=&plugin_query=&do_query=1&signature=KERNELBASE.dll%400xb9bc
21:44:39 <Mic> I think I should try to make that into understandable sentences ;)
21:44:54 <flo> Mic: I understood what you meant
21:45:25 <flo> I just think you got used to this behavior because it's the current behavior, not because it makes sense
21:45:40 <DGMurdockIII> yep
21:45:46 <flo> I believe for most people "escape" means "get rid of this window", and doesn't necessarily imply a way to get it back
21:45:58 <Mic> I want an easy key to get the window out of the way (and I have an easy one to get it back, i.e alt+tab)
21:46:16 <flo> alt+tab should also get it out of the way
21:46:22 <flo> except if you have only the Desktop behind it
21:46:30 <flo> in which case Windows+M or D should do
21:47:27 <flo> Mic: note: on Mac the minimized windows are actually excluded from what you can focus with Command+tab
21:47:51 <-- DGMurdockIII has quit (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 12.0/20120321033733])
21:48:23 <Mic> So that is not more convenient than our convs on hold there :(
21:49:26 <Mic> Good night
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22:37:28 <aleth> clokep: crashing?
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22:40:58 <clokep> aleth: Was trying an update...
22:41:05 <clokep> But still crashing, yes. :(
22:42:41 <aleth> :(
22:47:31 <flo> do you have a way to figure out where you are actually crashing?
22:54:29 <clokep> I think it's when I receive a message on IRC autojoin.
22:54:40 <clokep> I'll try in a bit.
22:55:07 <clokep> (Maybe it's from nickserv, not autojion?)
22:56:25 <flo> could it be when opening a <browser>?
22:56:43 <flo> that would seem like the perfect time to load the crappy plugins living on the system
22:58:06 <clokep> Could be...
22:58:21 <clokep> I can try that.
22:58:23 <clokep> Give me a few minutes. :)
22:58:46 <flo> try what?
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23:00:32 <clokep> To narrow it down. ;)
23:01:57 <clokep> flo: If I send or receive an IM on GTalk it crashes.
23:02:36 <flo> so you can open a conversation window without crashing?
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23:02:57 <clokep> Yes.
23:03:19 <clokep> I disabled all the plug-ins in the Add-ons window and i still crash when receiving an IM.
23:03:19 <flo> can you look at a non-empty conversation? (a json log for example)
23:03:47 <clokep> Yes.
23:04:30 <flo> does it crash too when receiving a message on a libpurple-prpl?
23:04:34 <clokep> It also crashes with AIM.
23:04:37 <clokep> Was just checking that. :)
23:04:50 <flo> I was wondering if it could be socket.jsm :)
23:04:54 <clokep> It crash when I sent one, I can try receiving too.
23:05:08 <flo> but well, if it was that you shouldn't be able to connect without crashing :-S
23:05:54 <clokep> Mmhmm.
23:06:01 <clokep> Anything else to try? :-/
23:06:05 <flo> try disabling the sounds
23:07:52 <clokep> flo: That's it.
23:07:59 <flo> :)
23:08:08 <clokep> Can send and receive messages.
23:08:43 * clokep goes to update.
23:09:12 <aleth> Sounds... that explains the DLL ;)
23:09:22 <aleth> Probably some driver?
23:09:32 <flo> quite possible
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23:10:14 <clokep> Why hello there Moz11!
23:11:43 <flo> so what's the next step?
23:11:53 * clokep is search bmo.
23:11:57 <flo> look at the list of modules in the crashes and see if there's the same sound driver for all of them?
23:12:08 <clokep> That's a good idea too.
23:12:13 <flo> or look at the diff between moz10 and moz11 to see what was changed w.r.t. sounds?
23:13:13 <Mook_as> which crash is this?
23:13:32 <flo> or blog "if you are on Windows and your instantbird nightly has been crashing each time you receive a message during the last 2 days, disable sounds. We are still investigating the real cause."?
23:13:41 <flo> Mook_as: http://crash-stats.instantbird.com/report/list?product=Instantbird&query_search=signature&query_type=exact&query=&date=&range_value=3&range_unit=days&process_type=all&plugin_field=&plugin_query_type=&plugin_query=&do_query=1&signature=KERNELBASE.dll%400xb9bc
23:16:24 <Mook_as> it looks like the reason is Module not found
23:16:31 <Mook_as> (from http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8271258/delay-load-dll-exception-0xc06d007e-module-not-found-when-application-start )
23:26:58 <flo> Mook_as: "which module?" is the interesting question ;)
23:27:37 <Mook_as> yeah. unfortunately you'd probably need to stare at a minidump to get that
23:28:19 <Mook_as> (let it crash, don't submit, grab the .dmp from crash reports, open it with windbg or visual studio)
23:31:52 <flo> I suspected https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=677797 but it's been backed out
23:32:29 <flo> Mook_as: why not just open the application with visual studio to begin with, and look at the stack once it's crashed?
23:32:31 <clokep> If you need what Mook_as suggests I might be able to get it.
23:32:46 <Mook_as> flo: because sometimes I'm not as smart as you are ;)
23:33:02 <flo> and https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=728429 is only for moz13
23:45:53 <flo> anyway, good night! :)
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