#instantbird log on 03 24 2012

All times are UTC.

00:03:28 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/e54b1858ed0c - Florian Qu├Ęze - Bug 1351 - Tray icon missing on Linux after moz11 update (port a change from upstream mintrayr).
00:04:53 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 1351 to FIXED.
00:04:56 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1351 nor, --, 1.2, florian, RESO FIXED, Tray icon missing after moz11 update
00:05:49 <instant-buildbot> build #223 of win32-onCommit is complete: Failure [failed compile]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-onCommit/builds/223  blamelist: Florian Qu?ze <florian@instantbird.org>
00:06:38 <instant-buildbot> build #234 of linux-onCommit is complete: Failure [failed compile]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-onCommit/builds/234  blamelist: Florian Qu?ze <florian@instantbird.org>
00:06:38 <instant-buildbot> build #202 of macosx-onCommit is complete: Failure [failed compile]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-onCommit/builds/202  blamelist: Florian Qu?ze <florian@instantbird.org>
00:10:01 <flo> I'll need to see with Even how we can fix all these onCommit failures :(
00:10:07 <flo> anyway, good night! :)
00:10:20 <aleth> good night :)
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03:51:27 <instant-buildbot> build #440 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/440
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05:47:52 <instant-buildbot> build #524 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/524
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07:10:47 <instant-buildbot> build #428 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/428
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08:01:55 <logiclord> flo : ping
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10:51:37 <FeuerFliege> hi, is it possible to trigger a langpack build from the de branch?
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11:48:11 <Mic> Hi
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13:00:02 <clokep> Good morning. :)
13:00:20 <clokep> Ah I should update to Moz11
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15:05:46 <flo> logiclord: pong?
15:06:42 <logiclord> yes
15:06:51 <logiclord> flo : ping
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15:09:38 <flo> logiclord: so what do you want?
15:12:54 <logiclord> since have made some initial mockup.... I was tinking about implementation and I was just curious whether mentored bugs concept is there for instantbird as mentioned at https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Introduction 
15:13:00 <logiclord> *thinking
15:15:33 <flo> we haven't flagged any bug as being mentored, but you can more or less pick any bug you would like to work on and ask for help
15:16:02 <flo> either ask here, or ask some questions as a comment in the bug
15:16:17 <flo> especially if you need help to find where the code related to some feature is, we can save you a lot of time
15:17:23 <logiclord> flo : any feedback on mock ups ??
15:17:56 <flo> those in the wiki?
15:18:02 <logiclord> yes
15:23:57 <flo> the first (existing) step should probably be changed to be more welcoming and to explain what is about to happen (or already happening in the background?) ie probing for other installed clients
15:24:30 <flo> the difference between your two mock-ups and where they are going to be visible isn't very explicit
15:24:55 <logiclord> flo : like flow of screen ?
15:25:01 <flo> we need to talk about the clients only if they require fetching info from their servers, right?
15:25:17 <flo> otherwise we can just talk directly about the accounts
15:25:43 <logiclord> flo : suppose I don't want instantbird to import any data from a client XYZ ??
15:26:07 <flo> what would be a situation where you would want that?
15:26:46 <logiclord> people may have old installed clients they might not be using ?
15:27:08 <flo> would it be difficult to see that from the list of accounts, and just uncheck uninteresting accounts there?
15:27:50 <logiclord> flo : just thought of giving more control to user 
15:28:45 <flo> I think when balancing between more control and less confusion, the users prefer not being confused :)
15:29:11 <flo> it seems to me the step with the list of clients is when you are asking for permission to go look there
15:29:30 <logiclord> flo : yes
15:29:33 <flo> and the next step is for confirmation on whether people want the accounts you have found in Instantbird
15:29:41 <logiclord> yup
15:29:48 <flo> you will probably need to mention in which client you have found each account
15:30:04 <flo> as I guess it's possible to find the same account with different configurations (especially passwords) in different clients
15:30:32 <flo> unless we are smart enough to detect which password is the most recently modified, the user will probably need to choose from which client the account should be imported in that case
15:31:13 <flo> I think you will probably want to have a "skip" button on these steps to skip the step and act directly as if all the checkboxes had been unchecked
15:31:47 <logiclord> flo : source of accounts will be given... there is an icon in accounts mockup
15:31:52 <flo> note that all these comments are mostly about details and we seem to be in agreement overall :)
15:32:30 <flo> I thought the icon was the icon of the protocol, not of the original messenger
15:32:42 <flo> (are we even sure we can find the icon of the client?)
15:33:03 <logiclord> flo: yes otherwise we can keep them up 
15:33:05 <logiclord> flo : how about giving option to select source client when user choose custom installation ?
15:33:05 <flo> I'm not sure we have code to extract icons from .exe files, nor that it's worth spending time to develop this
15:33:27 <logiclord> we can keep these icons or fetch from a url 
15:34:03 <flo> hmm maybe. That's an edge case after all :)
15:34:52 <logiclord> I think there are some doubts about explanation of mockups and flow of flow
15:35:09 <flo> or maybe under the account name a list of options in radio buttons with a radio-button-option line for each client where that account was detected, and the last line for "customize settings for this account"
15:35:38 <flo> I must admit I'm not too worried about the UI
15:35:52 <logiclord> flo : I kept username and password for quick edit and properties for detailed setting 
15:36:25 <flo> logiclord: (completely unrelated to the UI) have you thought about importing conversation logs?
15:37:01 <logiclord> flo : for some clients they are easy to get like pidgin
15:37:32 <flo> really? I think parsing pidgin logs is quite difficult as information is missing :-/
15:38:14 <logiclord> flo : Parsing may be an issue.. I meant we can extract that information 
15:38:20 <flo> but I guess doing a "best effort" import is better than nothing if we can't parse them, or can't parse them correctly in all situations
15:38:44 <logiclord> but proxy settings will be available in most of them
15:39:11 <flo> proxy are going to be painful :(
15:39:19 <logiclord> why ?
15:40:45 <logiclord> I will do an another round of research on exactly what useful settings + logs we can fetch and import
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15:41:15 <logiclord> btw included kopete and ichat
15:41:33 <flo> I think kopete is almost dead
15:41:55 <flo> it seems the developers have moved on to a QT-based port of Empathy
15:42:10 <logiclord> hmmm
15:43:08 <logiclord> okay I will just finish this UI changes and move on to next round 
15:43:17 <logiclord> and keep exloring codebase :)
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16:38:30 <aleth> logiclord: I'm not sure whether Telepathy is actually already the default on the latest KDE (might be worth checking), but Kopete is slated for replacement as it is no longer maintained. http://dot.kde.org/2011/12/07/kde-telepathy-02-future-free-communication
16:38:46 <aleth> oh, he left...
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16:44:37 <Mic|web> Hi
16:59:54 <aleth> Hi Mic :)
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17:44:03 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm cleared the Resolution 'FIXED' from bug 1351.
17:44:06 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1351 nor, --, 1.2, florian, REOP, Tray icon missing after moz11 update
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19:04:45 <flo> aleth: hmm, did the icon used to have the "correct" size with moz10?
19:05:03 <aleth> Yes, I've never noticed that before.
19:05:44 <aleth> It's possible it was automatically rescaled?
19:06:06 <aleth> The icon never looked particularly good.
19:06:36 <aleth> That might be the explanation...
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19:07:58 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm set the Resolution field on bug 752 to WORKSFORME.
19:08:01 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=752 min, --, ---, nobody, RESO WORKSFORME, Double-clicking on system-tray icon also launches another icon.
19:08:04 <flo> aleth: did you know I hate that tray icon? ;)
19:08:24 <aleth> I had my suspicions ;)
19:10:18 <aleth> Am taking a look at that buddy-list-moves-to-front bug in Preferences... also not fun
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19:15:29 <flo> isn't it just a special case to add?
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19:16:49 <aleth> flo: I thought so at first, but there is a timing problem. 
19:16:58 <aleth> Hmm, where would you have fixed it?
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19:18:01 <flo> not sure, I would need to go read that code to tell it, and it's not really fun :-P
19:18:15 <clokep_web> flo: I'm continually crashing with http://crash-stats.instantbird.com/report/index/229b0136-bfd9-4ca2-997b-079252120324 when connecting.
19:18:21 <clokep_web> I think when I connect my IRC account?
19:18:30 <aleth> Oh no... not new crashers :(
19:18:43 <clokep_web> This was after I updated to Moz11.
19:18:59 <clokep_web> (Although I'm on yesterday's build, not today's.
19:19:15 <flo> have you tried downloading the build instead of just the update?
19:19:29 <flo> (just to check if it's the update that didn't work, or the build)
19:19:45 <clokep_web> That was going to be my next thing to try, wasn't sure if you wanted me to try anything with the current build first. :)
19:19:59 <clokep_web> (Or should I keep it? Or just trash it.)
19:20:37 <flo> just rename the folder, so that you can compare it with the fresh build later if the fresh build works
19:20:43 <clokep_web> OK!
19:20:47 <flo> but I think Even has used that build on Windows without problem
19:20:58 <flo> so if it's a new crasher, it's probably not for everybody
19:21:30 <clokep_web> Mic would probably be crashing too if it was Windows.
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19:22:14 <flo> there are 6 similar crashes without "clokep" in the comments
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19:23:25 <clokep_web> flo: Doesn't seem to be an update problem. :( That was a fresh install.
19:23:43 <flo> someone had a similar crash with an uptime of 30853s !
19:26:17 <flo> clokep_web: does it happen in safemode?
19:27:34 <clokep_web> That means i need to remmeber the flag for safemode...
19:27:54 <flo> clokep_web: the flag is --help and then the real flag ;)
19:28:06 <clokep_web> We have it in the start menu too! :)
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19:28:15 <clokep_web> flo: Yes.
19:28:22 <clokep_web> (That ^ was safe mode.)
19:28:35 <flo> clokep_web: for what is worth, that crash seems to be when a dll on a different thread for some reasons decides to load some symbols dynamically, and fails to do so
19:28:44 <flo> so I suspect some crap is on the machine
19:29:29 <flo> (some crap that's interacting with binary symbols of libxul maybe? (and they would have changed with the moz update)
19:29:47 <flo> could be antivirus software, browser toolbars, ...
19:31:29 <clokep_web> Don't have either...
19:32:23 <clokep_web> I need to get going for a bit though.
19:32:26 <clokep_web> Bye!
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21:47:19 <flo> clokep: if my suspicion that the crash is caused by a dll of the system is right, to figure out which one, the best way I see is to look at the list in the "modules" tab for your crash reports, and compare with the list of modules for similar crashes from other people, to find what's common but not part of the OS
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22:34:27 <medley> hi dudes
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23:01:15 <qheaden> flo: ping
23:01:44 <flo> qheaden: I would prefer if you could ask your question directly instead of pinging ;)
23:02:02 <qheaden> flo: Sorry about that. :)
23:02:04 <flo> that would let others answer even if I'm not around ;)
23:02:41 <qheaden> I just wanted to know what details I would need to put in my proposal for the instantbird error console.
23:02:47 <qheaden> How detailed would it need to be?
23:02:47 <flo> (although I understand that talking alone is no fun :))
23:02:52 <qheaden> :P
23:03:09 <flo> how detailed can you make it?
23:03:20 <qheaden> Also, I thought I would let you know that this would be my second proposal. I also wrote a proposal to work on MathML. I'm writing two proposals to increase my chance of acceptance.
23:03:53 <qheaden> Well, I don't think I can make it code-level detailed, since I never dabbled in the error-console code.
23:03:57 <flo> when are the proposals due to be posted on the website?
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23:04:18 <qheaden> Uhh.. I know they start on March 26th. I forgot when the deadline is.
23:04:21 <flo> I'm afraid there's not much that can be kept from the current error console anyway
23:04:48 <flo> oh, ok. If that haven't started, I don't need to feel bad (yet) for not having logged in to the website :)
23:05:09 <qheaden> Ok. So basically, we have to rewrite a new error console for protocols?
23:06:05 <flo> try to not think of the code to touch first, but instead think of how it will be used
23:07:33 <qheaden> Ok. So would you recommend overhauling the existing error console, and including support for protocol-level reporting, or do you plan on creating a separate, small, and specialized console for the task?
23:09:46 <flo> if I worked on that project, I think I would start by the back-end: see how we can collect all the information, ensure each message is linked to the account that caused it; that we have a way to clear or at least separate the list of messages caused by a specific account each time it is disconnected and a new connection attempt starts
23:09:50 <flo> things like that :)
23:10:01 <flo> then I think the UI will be a consequence of which information we have to display
23:10:45 <qheaden> Yeah, that is a good way of looking at it.
23:11:40 <flo> I suspect the current error console UI isn't quite good for what we will have
23:12:28 <flo> but if you want to stick with it, I guess it would be possible to display the most recent messages in the current way + add an account specific tab that would filer the messages that are only for a specific account
23:12:43 <qheaden> When it comes to time, how about the first half of the GSoC period can be dedicated to adding the backend stuff, and the rest for the UI.
23:14:28 <flo> I think you'll get bored if you don't make something visible in the first few weeks
23:14:50 <qheaden> So I'll probably development together.
23:15:24 <flo> and it shouldn't take you more than a week or two to be able to know which account caused which messages (at least for some protocols); which is enough to have something to show
23:15:41 <qheaden> Also, will the console show the very network packets that are sent back and forth to the server, or just the instant chat messages?
23:16:06 <flo> the protocol level messages
23:16:20 <flo> so for XMPP, you will show XML
23:16:34 <qheaden> ok
23:16:49 <flo> I don't think showing the instant messages would help debugging, do you?
23:17:06 <qheaden> Guess you are right. :)
23:17:07 <qheaden> I'm asking all of these questions, because I am working on the proposal as we speed.
23:17:11 <qheaden> *speak
23:18:02 <flo> in your proposal, try to show you have thought about the problem and are interested by it
23:18:10 <qheaden> ok
23:18:46 <qheaden> Would this feature be more important to Instantbird developers, developers of addons for Instantbird, or both?
23:18:49 <flo> if when reading it I just see what I replied to your questions, it's hard to know if you understood and agree, or if you copied and pasted what I said ;)
23:19:27 <qheaden> Ha ha. They will compare the IRC log to my proposal and say "APPLICATION DENIED!" :)
23:19:27 <flo> it would save a lot of time for instantbird developers when working on protocol specific features
23:19:51 <flo> but I think the biggest benefit will be when trying to trouble shoot someone coming here and complaining that something doesn't work on one of his accounts
23:20:03 <flo> qheaden: who is "they"?
23:20:32 <qheaden> Whoever is over Mozilla's Summer of Code student acceptance.
23:20:55 <flo> the potential mentors are asked to read them and rate them + add a comment ;)
23:21:22 <qheaden> Yeah, the other mentor I have been working with has done that very well. I know you will too.
23:21:44 <qheaden> Are you going to be on the IRC tomorrow?
23:22:11 <flo> probably a few hours, but not all day long (the weather is great over here this week!)
23:22:32 <qheaden> I understand that! :)
23:23:11 <qheaden> Well, I'll probably end up dropping you an email by tonight or tomorrow with my proposal. You can then let me know what you think of it.
23:25:02 <qheaden> Thank you very much for your help thusfar.
23:26:13 <flo> you are welcome :)
23:27:45 <qheaden> Well, I've got to go. But I will be in contact.
23:27:48 <qheaden> So talk to you later.
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