#instantbird log on 03 08 2012

All times are UTC.

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00:34:58 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1269 to FIXED.
00:35:00 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269 nor, --, 1.2, florian, RESO FIXED, Frequent Max SendQ exceeded" disconnects
00:35:13 <clokep> That is definitely not the bug myk is seeing btw. ;)
00:35:36 <clokep> aleth: I'll look at that patch soonish.
00:36:00 <clokep> Ah, never mind...if he's on Instantbird 1.1, that's probably the bug.
00:36:03 * clokep should have kept reading. :(
00:36:39 <clokep> skeledrew: Your add-on has NOTHING to do with whether we use libpurple or JS-protos.
00:36:46 <clokep> It's all abstracted by the time it gets to you.
00:36:55 <clokep> You'll need to update it for 1.2 because of bug 759.
00:36:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759 min, --, ---, florian, RESO FIXED, Reorganize purplexpcom
00:37:04 <clokep> But that was just refactoring.
00:37:57 <clokep> But you should be able to set your "next" version as 1.2 and above only. :)
00:39:46 <myk> clokep: yes, i was on 1.1
00:39:55 <clokep> Yes, my misunderstanding. :)
00:39:57 <myk> clokep: so it seems like it is the bug i was seeing; and now i don't seem to see it anymore
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00:41:29 <clokep> Alright.
00:44:17 <skeledrew> clokep: so making the addon for JS-proto won't break it's use with non-JS-proto 1.1?
00:49:13 <clokep> skeledrew: I'm not sure why you keep saying JS-proto. :-/ Your stuff doesn't have to do with the fact that we use JavaScript protocols for a couple of things.
00:49:32 <clokep> If you make the changes necessary for 1.2, it will not be compatible with 1.1. You COULD make it compatible w/ both, however.
00:49:51 <skeledrew> k...
00:50:17 <clokep> You'd need to test the version and then keep your old code for versions < 1.2 and new code for versions >= 1.2
00:50:25 <clokep> Up to you whether it's worth it. :)
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01:00:17 <Mook_as> test for the contract id, not the version; so much easier :)
01:02:37 * clokep was thinking just use Services.core & then see if globalUserStatus exists on it...
01:06:47 <Mook_as> fine, come up with better answers. *pout*
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01:35:09 <clokep> :)
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03:52:44 <instant-buildbot> build #420 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/420
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05:28:27 <instant-buildbot> build #506 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/506
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06:53:49 <instant-buildbot> build #410 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/410
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07:55:54 <instantbot> New Core - General bug 1325 filed by pvdeejay@gmail.com.
07:56:00 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1325 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Problems getting display name for ICQ contacts in some cases
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10:31:10 <flo> hello :)
10:31:59 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm cancelled review?(clokep@gmail.com) for attachment 1231 on bug 1321.
10:32:00 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from clokep@gmail.com for attachment 1232 on bug 1321.
10:32:02 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1321 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Display name is lower case for IRC DMs
10:32:21 <aleth> hello :)
10:34:39 <flo> each time I attempt to resume a VM I wish my laptop had 8GB or ram :(
10:34:45 <flo> *of
10:36:38 <aleth> are you thinking of getting a new one? ;)
10:36:43 <flo> ah, I didn't have time to comment in that bug before you updated the patch.
10:37:01 <aleth> I'm not really happy with that patch.
10:37:14 <flo> I wanted to say after clokep's comment that if the normalizeNick method is a shortcut for calling .normalize on the account, the best name is probably normalize
10:37:25 <flo> but that's a nit :)
10:37:39 <flo> let's see if clokep has more comments on the logic before updating again to change that detail :)
10:38:02 <aleth> Yeah, there's also a normalizedName in one of the classes in that file, just to add to the confusion
10:38:10 <flo> aleth: "are you thinking of getting a new one? ;)" I somehow hope I'll eventually get one from Mozilla for my Thunderbird work.
10:38:26 <aleth> flo: Lets hope so! 
10:38:50 <aleth> They should give you the tools for the job ;)
10:38:54 <flo> the normalizedName readonly attributes are usually for constructing the log file's path
10:39:35 <aleth> Yes, it's something different again. Just a lot of *normalize*...
10:40:09 <flo> it's the usual normalize I think (= get something uniquely identifying the thing whose name is normalized)
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11:26:55 <clokep> aleth: Ideally we'd want to just update the name of the conversation when we receive that info from the server.
11:27:13 <clokep> But I don' tthink you can do that with a conversation.
11:27:38 <aleth> Yes, that was an earlier comment/question on my bug, I don't know a way to do that.
11:28:31 <aleth> It's what I don't like about the patch. It seems it like it should be fixed in ircConversation.
11:28:33 <clokep> flo: Is it possible to update the name of a conversation after it'sinitialized?
11:29:18 <flo> the name no (but it should probably be normalized anyway), the title yes
11:29:28 <flo> the title is what is displayed in the UI
11:29:58 <clokep> OK, so then that's all we really care about.
11:30:15 <clokep> (Yes, the name should be normalized.)
11:31:45 <aleth> How do you get the info from the server? Does it need to be explicitly requested?
11:33:32 <clokep> aleth: I'd say get it lazily when you receive a message from the server.
11:33:51 <clokep> I think what would work best...move all that logic trying to guess the proper name to the constructor of the conversation.
11:34:25 <clokep> Then when we receive a message on that conversation, check if the incoming nick is the same as the title of the conversation, if not...change the title of the conversation.
11:34:25 <aleth> Yes, that's what I wanted to do. But you really need to ping the server for the info explicitly?
11:34:35 <clokep> Why?
11:34:39 <aleth> I dislike the idea of changing the title only after a message is received
11:35:07 <clokep> You could run a whois probably.
11:35:21 <aleth> On NickServ too?
11:35:30 <clokep> No.
11:35:41 <clokep> Do not depend on NickServ for this.
11:35:46 <clokep> It's not part of the protocol.
11:36:06 <aleth> Still, it would be nice to have a solution that works always...
11:37:05 <clokep> I'd say a WHO or a WHOIS command most likely...
11:37:23 <clokep> (WHOIS is actually nice because we'll cache the tooltip info for the convversation as well...)
11:37:46 <clokep> You can look through http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2812 for ideas. ;)
11:38:10 <aleth> Currently the whois info is not reused for conversation tooltips actually.
11:38:27 <clokep> Right, but it will be eventually..
11:38:34 <aleth> Ah :)
11:38:45 <clokep> It should be. :P
11:39:04 <clokep> I think conversation tooltips don't work at all right now, irhgt?
11:39:13 <aleth> Remarkable how involved a minor issue like fixing the case of a string can get :P
11:39:20 <flo> j b suggested to me today that we add "add buddy" to the context menu of a tab (obviously when we are having a private conversation with someone not in the contact list yet)
11:39:41 <clokep> j b +1
11:39:42 <aleth> flo: Makes sense
11:39:50 <flo> and I think "[ ] auto-join" (a checkable menuitem) would be nice for chatrooms
11:40:05 <flo> (even though we want to get rid of the auto-join feature eventually)
11:40:15 <aleth> Do the latter first, then see if it's still needed?
11:40:17 <flo> do we have bugs on file for these 2 things?
11:40:31 <clokep> Not that I know of.
11:42:49 <clokep> flo: The reason for not naming that method "normalize" btw is that it takes into account the user prefixes.
11:43:21 <flo> does that change the way it's used?
11:43:39 <clokep> I'd need to check whether we always want to do that or not.
11:43:45 <clokep> If not, then it should just be normalize.
11:43:59 <clokep> (Just saying there was a reason behind my commnet!0
11:44:51 <flo> clokep: I read your comment as "get<blabla>" isn't a good name for something that isn't getting info from the object
11:44:54 <flo> and I agreed :)
11:45:39 <aleth> Well, as the whole thing is going to be redone anyway (as I expected), no need to argue yet ;)
11:48:13 <clokep> aleth: I have other comments too.
11:48:16 <clokep> So don't redo it all yet. :)
11:49:03 <clokep> Hmmm...actually...maybe I don't...
11:49:31 <aleth> Please comment before I look at it again it this evening ;)
11:51:25 <clokep> I'll do it when I get to work...
11:51:28 <clokep> Bye!
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11:51:29 <aleth> The one thing that came to mind is the relation to the other bug, to set the status correctly. If that requires a periodic poll of the server anyway, then maybe its not necessary to do a separate whois for the title.
11:51:53 <aleth> Hope clokep sees that ^^
11:52:12 <flo> as long as instantbot is in here, you can assume he will :)
12:04:39 <flo> is there any reason for keeping the "Welcome" first step of the Instantbird account wizard?
12:05:01 <flo> (Blake asked me to remove it in the Thunderbird fork of that window)
12:05:33 <flo> ah well, I guess it makes some sense to have that step when it's the very first window that appears during the first start on a new profile
12:18:39 <aleth> flo: Maybe only show it in that case?
12:18:56 <aleth> It's true it's in the way otherwise
12:19:17 <flo> aleth: I would like that. I don't know if we have an easy way to detect that we are in that case (I haven't looked at the code)
12:20:00 <aleth> Possibly localstore.rdf is absent? Not sure about the sequencing on first run
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12:34:47 <clokep_work> You could show it if there are no accounts...
12:35:20 <clokep_work> aleth: That's handled by the ISON polling...I don't think it'd be good to link those together.
12:42:17 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com denied review for attachment 1232 on bug 1321.
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12:42:19 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1321 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Display name is lower case for IRC DMs
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13:10:43 <flo> clokep_work: "You could show it if there are no accounts..." if there's no account but the user has clicked the "new account" button, I think it's still in the way
13:12:31 <flo> ah, ibCore.jsm opens the account manager if there's no connected account, and then the wizard is opened automatically by the account manager if there's no account
13:12:42 <flo> that makes adding a parameter a bit more complicated :-/
13:28:01 <clokep_work> Ah. :(
13:28:11 <clokep_work> Is that email just about using a self signed cert?
13:28:18 <flo> I think so
13:47:17 <clokep_work> http://blog.instantbird.org/2012/02/status-update-february-25-2012/comment-page-1/#comment-1231 :-/ we really should look at those accessibility bugs.
13:47:23 <clokep_work> They're just not exciting. :(
14:00:12 <flo> is there a way to have emails for these comments?
14:01:18 <clokep_work> I get emails as the author...Idk if there's a way to make everyone (or a certain subset) get emails for everyone.
14:01:25 <clokep_work> I think we had found a plug-in to do it?
14:03:45 <flo> my firefox is basically unusable because I have a flash video in a separate window taking 100% CPU
14:03:58 <flo> when seeing this, I understand why so many geeks switch to Chrome :(
14:05:17 * clokep_work uninstalled Flash instead. ;)
14:08:58 <flo> that doesn't help seeing the video though
14:09:10 <clokep_work> Yes. :(
14:09:12 <flo> would be nice if I could have only the sound
14:09:21 <flo> (as I'm coding during that time anyway...)
14:09:35 <clokep_work> I usually use IE for Flash if I must have it.
14:09:54 <clokep_work> The vast majority of Flash I watch is YouTube, which is mostly HTML5. (And is mostly music...)
14:10:57 <flo> is there any logical reason for account-removed to be fired before actually removing it from the list of accoutns at http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/components/src/imAccounts.js#964 ?
14:11:34 <clokep_work> Not that I know of.
14:12:20 <clokep_work> lxr seems to agree w/ me.
14:12:22 <flo> the doc says "account-removed: the account has been deleted"
14:12:27 <flo> currently, it hasn't
14:13:37 <flo> bah, the problem is account.remove() calls unInit which will make the account object unsuitable for being passed around in a notification :-/
14:14:46 <clokep_work> Have the account object instead listen to that call and call unInit when it receives it? :)
14:15:05 <clokep_work> Oh wait.
14:15:09 <clokep_work> Never mind, that doesn't make any sense.
14:15:30 <flo> why is this remove() method even exposed in the idl? http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/components/public/imIAccount.idl#209 :(
14:15:58 <flo> calling it directly will remove the account without any notification :-S
14:16:41 <clokep_work> Sounds like a bug. :(
14:42:11 <flo> the only thing our code uses is the .id property http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/accounts.js#171
14:44:09 <flo> it seems all I need to fix the issue I'm seeing in Thunderbird is http://pastebin.instantbird.com/17298
14:57:33 <flo> clokep_work: does this patch seem ok?
15:38:30 <clokep_work> flo: It seems OK as long as "account" will still exist with an ID value. :)
15:38:48 <flo> yeah, it should still work :)
15:39:03 <flo> it sucks a bit, but not more than before the patch :)
15:41:01 <clokep_work> Any reason we can't just send the ID instead if that's all we need?
15:43:12 <flo> I think name, id, numericId are still ok :)
15:47:10 <clokep_work> That sounds fine w/ me, yes. :)
15:47:41 <clokep_work> This could be very helpful: http://james-ross.co.uk/mozilla/misc/nserror?0x80004005
15:50:47 <flo> I've looked for that page several times without being able to remember where it was
15:54:01 <clokep_work> Now it's in the logs! :)
15:55:43 <flo> where we have an awesome search feature to find it again... wait, do we? :-D
15:56:05 <clokep_work> instantbot: nserror
15:56:06 <instantbot> clokep_work: http://james-ross.co.uk/mozilla/misc/nserror?0x80004005
15:56:12 <clokep_work> Oh lame. :(
15:56:30 <clokep_work> OK, now without the default value hah.
15:56:59 <flo> I search for nsresult all the time though :-/
15:57:08 <clokep_work> Unfortunately instantbot seems to forget things when he restarts. :(
15:57:16 <clokep_work> instant: nsresult is <alias>nserror
15:57:21 <clokep_work> instantbot: : nsresult is <alias>nserror
15:57:22 <instantbot> clokep_work: Yep, that's what I thought. Thanks for confirming it.
16:03:06 * jwir3|away is now known as jwir3
16:34:21 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1307 to WORKSFORME.
16:34:24 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1307 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO WORKSFORME, Google Talk unreliable after extended period of time
16:40:46 * skeledrew is trying to decide whether to use Assembla or KnowledgeForge project hosting...
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17:04:52 <aleth> Someone more knowledgeable than me should respond to bug 1325 ;) Maybe he'd like to fix bug 959, seems easier than what he is proposing, which I don't fully understand...
17:04:56 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1325 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Problems getting display name for ICQ contacts in some cases
17:04:57 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=959 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Implement "Get buddy info" command
17:05:41 <clokep_work> I don't know what the issue is either. :(
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17:19:48 <flo> https://dev.twitter.com/docs/application-permission-model says "force_login is now supported on https://api.twitter.com/oauth/authorize" :)
17:20:33 <flo> clokep_work: the issue is a bug in the oscar libpurple prpl
17:21:36 <flo> the ICQ buddies are just numbers. The ICQ servers stores the first name, the last name, and the display name. When the display name is missing, libpurple falls back to the number instead of attempting to use the first+last names
17:22:05 <flo> I had a patch for that several years ago, but I think I've never commited it because I wasn't familiar enough with ICQ to be confident that I wasn't breaking something else
17:23:16 <flo> also, it appears that Miranda doesn't store the display name correctly, as the reporter says that the problem appears only with ICQ buddies added to the server-stored list with Miranda, rather than the official ICQ or a libpurple-ICQ
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17:25:00 * myk likes the instantbird nightly icon
17:25:24 <clokep_work> flo: Ah, I see. Can I Copy&Paste that into the bug? :P
17:25:24 <flo> myk: my favorite is the Halloween branding :)
17:25:37 <flo> clokep_work: sure, but I'm afraid that won't help the reporter :)
17:25:50 <myk> flo: hmm, halloween?
17:25:55 <clokep_work> flo: What does force_login do?
17:26:19 <flo> myk: nightly builds automatically ship with a different branding for 2 days around halloween
17:26:28 <myk> flo: aha!
17:26:40 <flo> myk: it's a bit of an easter egg I guess :)
17:27:12 <clokep_work> We should have for Easter which is an Easter Egg. :-S
17:27:15 <myk> flo: got pics?
17:27:18 <flo> myk: it looks like this: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/branding/halloween/mozicon128.png
17:27:37 <myk> flo: excellent :-)
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17:28:37 <flo> clokep_work: force_login ignores existing cookies in the OAuth process and forces it to identify with the account name we provide instead of the one cached in the cookies
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17:30:03 <clokep_work> flo: Ah-ha! :) So we can possibly remove that hack we have?
17:40:19 <flo> or keep the hack, but add an additional safety net :)
17:41:00 <flo> I think I would prefer keeping the hack to avoid potential information leaks (twittter doesn't have to know that both accounts are configured in the same profile of the same software)
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17:41:09 <flo> but I think it can help for Thunderbird! :)
17:42:05 <clokep_work> :)
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17:56:40 <Mic|web> hi
17:56:59 <Mic|web> Was the question for the email adress to a comment about the accessibility bugs, flo?
17:57:15 <Mic|web> I'm certain pvagner is in BMO already in that case.
17:57:58 <Mic|web> (And I got his email adress at hand)
17:58:25 <flo> Mic|web: no idea of what you are talking about
17:58:49 <Mic|web> http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/120308/#m170
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17:59:34 <flo> clokep_work just said we need to go ahead and fix these bugs we have good reports for; especially those that are trivial.
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18:29:57 <Mic|web> And now I actually commented about the Gerv-thing :S
18:31:39 <flo> seriously?
18:35:58 <Mic|web> Yes .. http://www.glazman.org/weblog/dotclear/index.php?post/2012/03/07/Shocked&pub=1#c16285
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18:36:36 <Mic|web> And it's not even trolling ;)
18:37:55 <flo> ah, on glazou's blog :)
18:39:07 * flo refrains from commenting on this topic :)
18:39:55 <flo> diner time, before more Thunderbird hacking. The target for landing IM-in-Tb is Monday. To have a patch ready for review is tomorrow :-|.
18:40:08 <flo> back in an hour or two ;)
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18:48:30 <myk> now that irc support has been reimplemented, does that mean /whois support is coming?
18:49:07 <-- Even has quit (Quit: Instantbird -- http://www.instantbird.com)
18:50:15 <myk> ERRMSG action :Unhandled CTCP command
18:50:48 * myk shouldn't perhaps play with irc commands ;-)
18:50:52 <Mic|web> Oh, that doesn't sound good :(
18:51:11 <myk> (when i issued the /me command that time, i didn't put anything after it; i just wrote "/me" and pressed return)
18:52:47 * aleth ACTION
18:53:23 <aleth> Hmm, I didn't get four tabs when I did that
18:53:45 * myk tries again
18:53:48 * myk ACTION
18:53:56 <myk> hmm, that time it didn't happen
18:53:59 <aleth> myk: whois is definitely wanted
18:54:12 * aleth ACTION
18:54:19 <myk> ooh, but then i went over to #openwebapps and tried it again, and it happened again!
18:54:51 <myk> perhaps it's certain users who can't handle that empty /me, and there are four of them in that channel?
18:55:15 <aleth> I can confirm that :(
18:55:19 <myk> it was the same four people: cyberdees, felipe, michielbdejong, and ozten
18:55:32 <Mic|web> myk: if you don't mind lots of messages in your error console, you can set the logging level (look for log or level, it's something with purple in it) in about:config to 2.
18:55:32 <aleth> Could you file a bug? There are error messages in those four DMs, right?
18:55:39 <Mic|web> The console will show all raw messages sent and received from the server then
18:55:49 <myk> aleth: yes, the same error message
18:57:00 <myk> Mic|web: hmm, ok
18:57:17 <myk> Mic|web: i'll wait until a bug fixer asks me for those messages :-)
19:00:47 <instantbot> New Core - IRC bug 1326 filed by myk@mozilla.org.
19:00:51 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1326 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, " ERRMSG action :Unhandled CTCP command " from some users with empty /me on IRC
19:01:04 <myk> aleth: there ya go :-)
19:01:57 <aleth> myk: Thanks!
19:04:41 <aleth> myk: By the way, you can already get some whois info by hovering over a nick in the participant list
19:05:01 * jwir3|lunch is now known as jwir3
19:05:24 <myk> aleth: ooh! thanks, that's helpful!
19:07:44 <aleth> Ideally the UI will be good enough so you don't need to remember commands ;)
19:16:35 <myk> aleth: erm, for me the best UI is a command line
19:16:55 <myk> aleth: because it's the most efficient one
19:17:10 <aleth> That exists as well of course... just not completely finished for all commands
19:17:26 <aleth> If you spot anything missing, file a bug ;)
19:17:31 * myk just discovered that /query and /msg aren't implemented, which is pretty critical
19:17:39 <aleth> They are implemented
19:17:47 <Mic|web> ./msg should work iirc
19:17:54 <myk> 11:16:00 - /query is not a supported command. Type /help to see the list of commands.
19:17:58 <aleth> try "/help msg"
19:18:02 <myk> 11:16:12 - /msg is not a supported command. Type /help to see the list of commands.
19:18:20 <myk> hmm, now it worked
19:18:36 <myk> hunh, i wonder why it didn't work before
19:18:55 * Mook_as suspects that's the reply from the server
19:18:55 <myk> ah, i get that "not a supported command" message if i don't enter a message
19:19:07 <myk> i.e. if i do simply: /msg someone
19:19:14 <aleth> Ah, that sounds like a small bug then
19:19:45 <aleth> Well spotted :D
19:19:50 <Mic|web> Did that work with libpurple irc actually?
19:19:59 <myk> looks like /query also works if you include a message
19:20:03 <aleth> Sure.
19:21:40 <instantbot> New Core - IRC bug 1327 filed by aletheia2@fastmail.fm.
19:21:42 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1327 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, IRC commands (/msg, /query) are "not supported" when missing parameters
19:21:53 <-- sonny has quit (Client exited)
19:22:14 <myk> aleth: woot!
19:22:30 <aleth> It's misleading...
19:25:45 <Mic|web> bye
19:25:51 <-- Mic|web has left #instantbird ()
19:25:53 * aleth was going to use the whois realname for the DM display name, but it turns out it is often set to "None" or "www.mibbit.com" or "country 8 *" :(
19:29:56 <aleth> Thanks for stress-testing the nightly myk - it's good to find these things early ;)
19:30:08 <myk> aleth: sure thing!
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19:54:48 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 
19:58:58 <aleth> It seems /whowas is not quite implemented either, despite appearing in the commands list
20:03:22 <flo> so bug 1327 is really 2 different bugs: 1. syntax errors in commands should show the help for that command, not say the comment doesn't exist. 2. /msg and /query on IRC should open an empty conversation when executed without message.
20:03:25 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1327 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, IRC commands (/msg, /query) are "not supported" when missing parameters
20:04:20 <aleth> flo: Yes, actually 2) is a separate bug that hasn't been filed yet, I meant to earlier
20:05:29 <flo> great :)
20:05:39 <flo> aleth: if you want to attach the patch, that would be nice too
20:05:44 <flo> it's probably easy :)
20:06:23 <aleth> Probably... but I'm still tracking through the code of the whois stuff
20:07:12 <Mook_as> hmm, would it be possible to make conversations always show up in the "hidden conversations" bit, even when they're visible?
20:07:22 <Mook_as> (... yeah, that sounds stupid, doesn't it?)
20:07:59 <aleth> Sounds like an add-on actually ;)
20:08:15 <Mook_as> well, I want it for my addon ;)
20:08:24 <Mook_as> (since I decided my current code, which fakes buddies, is wrong)
20:10:19 <instantbot> New Core - IRC bug 1328 filed by aletheia2@fastmail.fm.
20:10:22 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1328 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, /msg <nick> should open an empty conversation tab
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20:14:31 <clokep_work> aleth: myk I don't think /whois is wanted.
20:15:16 <aleth> clokep_work: You filed the bug ;)
20:15:43 <flo> clokep_work: I think you said you wanted to know the review comments I would receive for the JS-IRC part of the IM-in-Tb patch, it's been reviewed today: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=714733#c55
20:15:45 <aleth> Anyway, I only need to understand that code for the display name saga
20:15:56 <myk> clokep_work: erm, why not?
20:16:28 <flo> Mook_as: your request sounds very much like an all-in-one-window add-on ;)
20:16:44 <flo> Mook_as: I think you should look at my Thunderbird IM UI, by the way :)
20:16:45 <Mook_as> gee, ya think? ;)
20:17:03 <Mook_as> I probably should, yeah, but I have... other issues with thunderbird
20:17:04 <clokep_work> flo: I saw. Is it inappropriate for me to reply in that bug?
20:17:09 <flo> it's possible that what you want is just to package all these files in an add-on ;)
20:17:23 <Mook_as> it doesn't like my mozilla checkins rss feed very well (too many items, I think) and thus has horrible performance
20:17:31 <flo> Mook_as: I wasn't suggesting using Thunderbird. Just looking at the UI, and stealing the files
20:17:35 <Mook_as> ah, you mean use that for ib. interesting
20:17:46 <clokep_work> myk: Because I don't see any added value in it + it doesn't really fit into Instantbird well.
20:17:58 <Mook_as> then yeah, I definitely should
20:18:00 <clokep_work> If someone wishes to display a /whois on the command line it could be done trivially with an extension.
20:18:06 <clokep_work> I'll think about it more though.
20:18:27 <clokep_work> aleth: You don't need to understand much of that code. :)
20:18:54 <flo> Mook_as: it's all in a single Thunderbird tab, so that could all go into a single window.
20:19:07 <flo> Mook_as: the major thing you lose compared to Instantbird is the tags in the contact list.
20:19:08 <aleth> clokep_work: The whois messages are straightforward, its more about finding the most elegant solution
20:19:13 <myk> clokep_work: hmm, it seems consistent with support for other IRC commands
20:19:54 <myk> clokep_work: and while instantbird may focus more on the needs of graphical interface users, surely there's some room to meet the needs of the more textually oriented among us?
20:19:57 <aleth> or s/most/sufficiently
20:20:23 <aleth> Actually, it might be good to have /whois for accessibility reasons
20:20:35 <flo> myk, clokep_work: what's the request about that whois command exactly and what's your point of view on it? I got lost on the discussion, wondering if you aren't both saying the same thing differently :)
20:20:57 <clokep_work> flo: myk wants a /whois command that displays the results in the conversation you typed it.
20:21:36 <clokep_work> 1. I have no way of knowing if a WHOIS response is from a command issued by /whois or via the UI. 2. I have no idea what conversation originally issued the command when parsing the reponse.
20:22:56 <flo> so you are saying you don't want it in the UI because it's technically difficult to get right? (which I can perfectly understand, as I had basically the 2 points you just mentioned in mind)
20:24:05 <clokep_work> Additionally I think it fits into the Instantbird UI very poorly...
20:24:18 <clokep_work> And I don't really see a point for it, how often is it necessary to really request whois information?
20:24:32 <clokep_work> The one downside I really don't like is that you can't currenlty request whois info for arbitrary users.
20:24:37 <myk> flo: i haven't actually specified where the results would appear, although displaying them in the conversation seems reasonable
20:24:51 <clokep_work> If the server tab is enabled, I wouldn't be totally against displaying them there.
20:25:29 <myk> flo: what i would like is to be able to enter |/whois <nick>| to get information about the person with that nick
20:25:36 <flo> myk: would you display the raw server replies (in which case it's definitely something for the server tab) or a formatted more human friendly version that could fit in one or two lines in the conversation?
20:25:39 <myk> flo: including, crucially, how long they have been idle
20:25:40 <aleth> clokep_work: That's not that useful, nobody will find it there
20:26:04 <myk> flo: umm, think of me as a user who doesn't know what the "raw server replies" are ;-)
20:26:07 <clokep_work> aleth: I didn't say it was ideal, I'm just saying it makes more sense.
20:26:11 <myk> flo: it's not entirely true, but it's close enough
20:26:27 <aleth> I think barring the technical issues, a system message displaying what's in the tooltip seems fine to me
20:26:35 <clokep_work> flo: The server tab is meant to have some basic parsing done of replies, but I wouldn't cache things and display them...just print each message as it comes.
20:26:38 <myk> flo: all i know is that other IRC clients i've used over the years have told me some useful information about people when i asked who they are
20:26:43 <flo> myk: I'm sure you would be able to read them, but whether *you* can read something isn't really the point when discussion UI :)
20:27:35 <myk> flo: in particular, those clients typically have told me the name of the person (with mixed results) and how long they have been idle
20:27:37 <flo> myk: you see that information when hovering a nick in the list of participants ;)
20:27:47 <myk> flo: i don't use the mouse if i can help it
20:27:52 <flo> so my understanding was that you disliked having to move the mouse pointer :)
20:28:06 <aleth> In the end this discussion will be resolved by someone adding a suitably good patch or not ;)
20:28:09 <myk> flo: i'm a keyboard-centric user
20:28:21 <myk> flo: it takes many times more time and effort for me to use a mouse for such actions
20:28:34 <flo> myk: I can understand that
20:28:37 <myk> flo: also, sometimes the person i want to query is not in the channel i'm in
20:28:52 <flo> myk: by the way, do you like our nick completion? We tried to make it suck less than the completion of other IRC clients :)
20:28:54 <myk> flo: sometimes i don't even know what channel(s) they are in
20:28:57 <clokep_work> flo: My usage of XXX is consistent with your definition by the way.
20:29:08 <myk> flo: yes, it's almost perfect!
20:29:20 <flo> clokep_work: that's likely, as if it wasn't I would have told you to change them ;)
20:29:52 <flo> clokep_work: I missed this message ealier: "flo: I saw. Is it inappropriate for me to reply in that bug?". You can totally reply in that bug :)
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20:30:27 <flo> and I really hope that once this code lives in comm-central, you will still be allowed to r+ patches against it. ;)
20:31:02 <aleth> Who better ;)
20:31:40 <clokep_work> I hope so too! :)
20:32:05 <clokep_work> myk: Pretty much what it comes down to: I'm not totally against it, but I'd like there to be a good solution (I don't want to just do it "because everyone does").
20:32:13 <clokep_work> And I'm not likely to write a patch to do it anytime soon.
20:32:20 <clokep_work> There's some other work to be done first. :)
20:32:23 <flo> I'm not sure if there's something somewhere hidden in the mozilla module ownership policy that prevents making someone a peer if he doesn't have commit access yet
20:33:32 <flo> clokep_work: right. I think what you wanted to say instead of "it's not wanted" is "it's not a priority for me, but we would accept a good patch for it :)"
20:34:23 <clokep_work> flo: Probably, it's been a long day.
20:34:47 <flo> (although getting you Mozilla commit access probably wouldn't be too hard :))
20:35:49 <clokep_work> Maybe. I only have a few patches in Mozilla...
20:36:06 <aleth> This seems like a big one ;)
20:36:06 <flo> that will no longer be true if chat/ is in Mozilla :)
20:36:22 <clokep_work> myk: Does that make sense? Sorry that I came off as rude. :-/ I just really want to understand /why/ you need it and in what use, rather than just blindly doing it because "other clients" do it.
20:36:23 <myk> clokep_work: sure, i understand; and i certainly don't want it because other irc clients have it; rather, i want it because it's useful :-) and of course i want a good solution
20:36:30 <clokep_work> (Also, it's my opinion that most IRC clients suck...)
20:36:38 <clokep_work> Good, we're in agreement then!
20:36:50 <clokep_work> Unfortunately...the IRC plug-in is written as a (mostly) stateless machine.
20:36:53 <myk> clokep_work: my primary use case is to answer the question: is foo around?
20:36:56 <clokep_work> So I have no idea what sent message generated a response...
20:37:04 <flo> clokep_work: the reason for wanting it is: "whois should be keyboard accessible"
20:37:04 <clokep_work> myk: Why not add them to your buddy list?
20:37:10 <myk> clokep_work: f.e.: is dougt around?
20:37:16 <flo> myk: doesn't want to use his mouse. Blind users just can't.
20:37:31 <myk> clokep_work: umm, well, i didn't know you can add an irc user to your buddy list; but also, i don't use my buddy list if i can help it
20:38:07 <aleth> myk: It's nice to see there who is online though ;)
20:38:32 <myk> clokep_work: and also, many of these people aren't my buddies; some of them i don't speak to very often; but every once in a while i have a question and want to ping someone to answer it--if, that is, they're 1. online, and 2. not too idle
20:38:48 <clokep_work> Alright.
20:38:54 <flo> clokep_work: for the implementation, I think somehow the object implementing the IRC conversation should add an observer for the "user-info-received" notification
20:39:01 <myk> aleth: that's occasionally true, for my actual buddies
20:39:07 <flo> that's how the participant tooltips work
20:39:31 <aleth> myk: you may want to CC yourself to bug 866
20:39:34 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=866 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Handle /list and /whois for IRC
20:42:13 <aleth> myk: and then you can group the IRC buddies with their buddies from other accounts...
20:42:27 <aleth> Just in case you hadn't discovered that feature yet.
20:43:32 <myk> aleth: thanks, i've cc:ed myself
20:43:39 <flo> aleth: that's not as nice as it seems though, as I think the IRC buddies don't get "away" when the other buddies of the contact are idle, so the preferred buddy switches to IRC each time the contact is away :(.
20:44:44 <aleth> I thought that was going to be resolved (i.e. the IRC buddy status bug)
20:45:06 <aleth> Though it probably doesn't have a really good solution.
20:46:05 <aleth> (unless IRC has some features I am not aware of)
20:46:44 <clokep_work> flo: That's a decent way to do it, would sitll need to decide what to do with it. :P
20:47:00 <clokep_work> aleth: The IRC buddy status is only offline or online.
20:47:24 <aleth> You'd have to parse the idle time.
20:47:33 <flo> clokep_work: format some text to display in a system message
20:47:49 <clokep_work> Where do you display that system message?
20:47:58 <clokep_work> Actually...opening a conversation from that user might make the most sense...
20:48:00 <flo> in the conversation that has the observer
20:48:09 <clokep_work> Ah, I see what you're saying...
20:48:10 <flo> the observer is added when the whois command is executed
20:48:23 <flo> removed when closing the conversation or when a reply for the requested nick has been observed
20:48:27 <aleth> You need an observer anyway to handle the ENDOFWHOIS
20:48:45 <flo> aleth: no, that's handled deep in the IRC code
20:48:52 <Mook_as> oh, just so I don't have to look for it: the tbird ui is in comm-central?
20:49:12 <flo> Mook_as: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=714733
20:49:13 <aleth> flo: yes, it sends an event
20:49:21 <flo> Mook_as: expected to land Monday for Tb 13
20:49:45 <flo> if I can finish it and get it reviewed in time
20:52:08 <clokep_work> aleth: Yeah, that's handled by the message handler not an observer.
20:52:35 <aleth> clokep_work: I think we mean the same thing, I was looking at that code.
20:53:46 <clokep_work> OK. :)
20:53:53 <clokep_work> An "observer" is a technical phrase though, so...
20:54:18 <aleth> Sorry, I should have been more precise...
20:54:32 <aleth> I was just agreeing with flo's suggestion.
20:54:53 <clokep_work> Someone write a patch then. ;)
20:54:57 <clokep_work> Or include the suggestion in the bug.
20:54:59 <flo> aleth: I gave enough information for you to write the patch :-P
20:55:05 <flo> bah, clokep_work said the same thing faster :-D
20:55:15 <aleth> There are a lot of patches I could write :P
20:55:49 <flo> aleth: this sounds more like opportunities than like a problem :)
20:56:00 <aleth> :)
20:56:10 <aleth> Apart from lack of time that is...
20:59:35 <flo> lack of time?
20:59:52 <flo> in most case that's equivalent to "lack of motivation" ;)
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21:03:37 <clokep_work> flo: I can change those to TODO comments and maybe add some more notes on each of them.
21:03:45 <clokep_work> Some of them should be handled (but usually just to display a message...)
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21:12:49 <flo> clokep_work: lf you have some spare time, that sounds good. I really don't see an emergency here :)
21:13:09 <flo> we are rushing the parts that need localizable strings. I don't think editing code comments fits in that category :)
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21:22:32 <clokep_work> Ah, so I just can't add strings? :P
21:23:25 <flo> it's so sad the comments won't be localized :-P
21:27:41 <aleth> You can add a horn section ;)
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21:37:13 <myk> flo: the only aspect of nick completion that is not quite perfect is what happens when i complete two nicks at the beginning of a line
21:37:20 <myk> flo: then it comes out like:
21:37:24 <myk> flo: aleth 
21:37:31 <myk> whereas i'd like it to come out like:
21:37:36 <myk> flo, aleth: 
21:38:04 <myk> flo: in other words, if i complete one nick, and then i immediately complete a second, i want my client to understand that i'm directing a comment to two people
21:38:11 <flo> aleth: what do you think of that?
21:38:25 <myk> flo: whereas currently it treats the second person as an "in comment reference", like when i mention aleth in this message
21:38:47 <flo> myk: yeah, I understand what you mean :)
21:39:07 <flo> another aspect that I think could be improved is giving priority to someone who has mentioned your nick a few seconds ago
21:39:19 <myk> flo: mmm, sure!
21:39:21 <aleth> Interesting! Not a case we encountered before I think.
21:39:26 <flo> currently both myk and Mook__as are active, but it was quite obvious I was replying to you :)
21:39:40 <flo> aleth: the list of nicks is something I had in my todo list for the reply to nick add-on
21:39:49 <flo> I never got to implement it though :-/
21:40:38 <aleth> Seems doable :)
21:40:41 <myk> flo: perhaps the client could even auto-add a recent correspondent to the message field, but selected, so if it isn't the right start to your next message, then you can just start typing to erase it; and if it is the right start, you can simply press the right arrow before you start typing to keep it
21:40:49 <aleth> Giving priority to recently used nicks is trickier
21:42:21 <flo> aleth: these are just suggestions; just in case you were out of patch opportunities :)
21:43:15 <aleth> I had also thought about giving priority not to recently used nicks, but to those who pinged you recently
21:43:21 <aleth> (more specific)
21:44:45 <flo> isn't this what I just suggested?
21:45:39 <aleth> (checks) you did :) somehow I misread that as "people who spoke in the last few seconds"
22:17:11 <myk> should be variable width and is |should be fixed width and is| should be variable width but isn't |should be fixed width and is| should be variable width and is
22:17:15 <myk> hmm, it worked that time
22:17:54 <myk> |make -C webapprt/base/| just copies the changed file to dist/bin/; |make -C browser/app/ repackage| is what copies it to dist/NightlyDebug.app/
22:18:09 <myk> that's the one that didn't work; i wonder why
22:19:00 <Mook_as> starts with fixed width?
22:19:51 <myk> |fixed| variable |fixed| variable
22:19:56 <myk> nope
22:20:34 <aleth> |/|nonvar|var
22:25:03 <flo> myk: the cause is the mozTXTToHTMLConv component that is unreliable for various different reasons :(
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22:31:11 <myk> flo: aha!
22:32:57 <flo> we need to stop using it and rewrite it in JS eventually, but it's boring ;)
22:38:04 <Mook_as> or steal whatever chtazilla uses ;)
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22:39:51 <flo> Mook_as: are you sure it's really better?
22:40:09 <-- igorko has quit (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org)
22:40:41 <Mook_as> well, only that it's already in js; I don't know if it's better
22:40:47 <Mook_as> (also, it doesn't break with myk's testcase)
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22:49:23 <clokep> No patches for me to review yet? ;)
22:50:00 <aleth> I have a bunch of old ones if you are bored :P
22:50:29 <clokep> I need to review one or two of yours still. :(
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23:09:22 <flo> Good night
23:09:24 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird -- http://www.instantbird.com)
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23:21:08 <adev> hi instantbot
23:21:10 <instantbot> g'day mate
23:21:23 <adev> hi instant-buildbot
23:21:40 <adev> instant-buildbot: help
23:21:40 <instant-buildbot> Get help on what? (try 'help <foo>', or 'commands' for a command list)
23:21:49 <adev> instantbot: ping
23:21:50 <instantbot> adev: pong
23:22:28 <clokep> Hello adev, do you need help? :)
23:23:04 <adev> clokep: no, just needed some noise ;)
23:24:53 <Mook_as> #bugs is excellent at that; so is #buildduty ;)
23:25:10 <Mook_as> (and #commits on freenode)
23:27:00 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1329 filed by aletheia2@fastmail.fm.
23:27:01 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 1233 on bug 1329.
23:27:03 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1329 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Tab complete: prefer sender of the last ping
23:27:49 <aleth> Mook_as: good idea... usually I go for #ubuntu
23:28:27 <Mook_as> heh, all my channels are spam from bots ;)
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