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00:03:06 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 00:03:06 * ChanServ sets mode +o clokep 01:27:28 <-- myk has quit (Ping timeout) 01:49:25 --> chrisccoulson has joined #instantbird 01:55:56 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 01:55:56 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 02:01:26 <aleth> Netsplit over I see... 02:06:48 --> myk has joined #instantbird 02:07:36 <-- Mook_as has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.13/20101203074205]) 02:09:52 <-- myk has quit (Connection reset by peer) 02:12:02 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 02:14:42 <-- Even2 has quit (Connection reset by peer) 02:30:59 <-- SM0TVI has quit (Quit: I view things as they are, without regard to place or person; my country is the world, and my religion is to do good. -- Thomas Paine (*1737 â 1809)) 02:40:29 --> SM0TVI has joined #instantbird 03:13:55 --> Mautematico has joined #instantbird 03:47:29 <instant-buildbot> build #397 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/397 04:16:28 --> gerard-majax has joined #instantbird 04:20:42 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 04:21:34 --> Mook has joined #instantbird 05:03:16 <-- Mautematico has quit (Ping timeout) 05:13:49 <-- EionRobb has quit (Quit: Leaving.) 05:19:59 <-- danols has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 05:20:08 --> danols has joined #instantbird 05:24:27 <-- danols has quit (Connection reset by peer) 05:34:39 <instant-buildbot> build #483 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/483 06:33:43 <-- skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 06:33:50 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird 06:52:36 <instant-buildbot> build #389 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/389 07:14:37 <-- Mook has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-rdmsoft [XULRunner 6.0/20110811165603]) 07:17:17 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird 07:33:20 --> myk has joined #instantbird 07:47:20 <-- micahg has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat) 07:48:30 --> micahg has joined #instantbird 07:49:43 <-- gerard-majax has quit (Ping timeout) 07:51:45 <-- myk has quit (Ping timeout) 07:58:49 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 07:58:49 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 08:03:18 --> jb has joined #instantbird 08:26:55 --> gerard-majax has joined #instantbird 08:41:31 --> MadWookiee has joined #instantbird 08:58:54 --> Even has joined #instantbird 08:58:54 * ChanServ sets mode +o Even 09:00:55 <-- Even has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 09:00:57 --> Even has joined #instantbird 09:00:57 * ChanServ sets mode +o Even 09:19:50 <-- jb has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 09:32:34 --> mmkmou has joined #instantbird 09:40:54 <-- chrisccoulson has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat) 09:41:47 --> chrisccoulson has joined #instantbird 09:43:48 <-- chrisccoulson has quit (No route to host) 09:44:05 --> chrisccoulson has joined #instantbird 09:47:57 <Mic> Hello. 09:59:31 <-- EionRobb has quit (Quit: Leaving.) 10:00:23 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 10:00:23 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 10:03:27 --> flo has joined #instantbird 10:03:28 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 10:05:08 <aleth> Mic: might this allow what you were looking for? https://developer.mozilla.org/en/CSS/-moz-element 10:06:52 * mmkmou is now known as kmou 10:07:17 * kmou is now known as mmkmou 10:08:59 <-- flo has quit (Ping timeout) 10:10:30 --> flo has joined #instantbird 10:10:31 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 10:11:29 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 10:11:38 --> flo has joined #instantbird 10:11:38 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 10:17:42 <-- skeledrew has quit (Connection reset by peer) 10:24:05 --> jb has joined #instantbird 10:24:17 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird 10:29:39 <Mic> aleth: interesting but it won't help me to change the color of the indicator :( 10:29:40 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 10:29:56 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 10:29:56 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 10:31:33 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 10:32:32 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 10:32:32 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 10:41:55 --> Mic1 has joined #instantbird 10:43:12 <-- Mic has quit (Ping timeout) 10:44:24 * Mic1 is now known as Mic 10:45:30 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 10:46:18 * Mic has SVG indicators working in a variant. Too bad that they're always red ;) 10:55:37 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1273 filed by aletheia2@fastmail.fm. 10:55:38 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from clokep@gmail.com for attachment 1174 on bug 1273. 10:55:39 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1273 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Remove *** from Bubbles action messages 10:56:15 <aleth> most trivial patch ever ;) 10:56:43 <flo> I think the resolution is INVALID though ;) 10:56:52 <aleth> I don't mind 10:57:17 <flo> as there's no clearly identified problem you are trying to solve 10:57:29 <aleth> Just removed some minor Ugly for my own benefit ;) 10:58:05 <aleth> No problem, mere aesthetics, so opinions will differ 10:58:13 <flo> if there was something to change there, I would say the problem is that the current way it's displayed is too easy to spoof 10:58:44 <aleth> But does that matter? It's just the sender talking, one way or another 10:58:55 <flo> if we could display the name like it's displayed in the top-left corner of the bubble, that would be better I think 10:59:02 <Mic> *** /Flo does an action in one of Mic's bubbles/ ? 10:59:37 <flo> Mic: yeah, but in a protocol that supports HTML, so that you don't have these obvious / / ;) 10:59:58 <Mic> This should have been /italics/ 11:00:01 <flo> Mic: and with a nick showing in the same color ;) 11:00:09 <aleth> heh 11:00:16 <flo> Mic: it was italic, but that doesn't remove the slashes 11:00:18 <Mic> Oh, it was .. I thought we removed the slashes and stuff then? 11:00:39 <Mic> Same for _underline_ and *bold* , most likely? 11:00:55 <Mic> Good to know. I guess italics aren't that important then ;) 11:02:42 <aleth> Kopete has an Action.html/NextAction.html pair 11:02:52 <aleth> if one wanted to take it that far... 11:03:30 <flo> is it useful? 11:03:43 <flo> I think we added something in Info.plist and decided at the time that it was enough 11:03:55 <flo> (although it's possible we were wrong :)) 11:04:39 <aleth> It kind of implies actions being outside message bubbles. I think it's unnecessary. 11:05:28 <flo> it doesn't imply it very clearly. It doesn't say you can group NextAction with Incoming/Content.html 11:05:32 <Mic> Are actions something that should be in the speech bubble? 11:05:37 <flo> also, what about the difference between ActionContent and ActionContext ? 11:06:27 <aleth> They have a difference? I don't remember exactly their modification 11:06:56 <flo> aleth: I think Kopete doesn't care because they don't support Context at all 11:07:44 <aleth> I think the current way is fine, just that the *** looked clunky... 11:10:28 <Mic> flo: I think Kopete's %senderColor{n}% wouldn't help us with Bubbles since we look up the lightness in our table and don't scale it up or down independently from the hue. 11:11:34 <flo> but isn't the look up table used to just improve readability for some colors? 11:11:43 <flo> if so, it could be included in the senderColor algorithm 11:14:38 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 11:14:40 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 11:14:40 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 11:15:18 <Mic> It is used to calculate the color of the nickname, the background behind the nickname and the bubble borders. I'm not what you mean by /include in the senderColor algorithm/. The senderColor algorithm returns exactly one color for a given nick. 11:15:35 <Mic> *I'm not sure 11:15:55 <flo> you can change N ;) 11:16:13 <aleth> It's also Bubbles-specific, isn't it? So why shouldn't it be in Bubbles? Maybe the previous idea of providing HSL values is more general 11:16:42 <flo> aleth: I think Bubble is just trying to generate a set of colors that go well together 11:16:54 <flo> I don't see why the algorithm for that would be Bubble specific 11:17:12 <Mic> flo: that's what I think too, but not every theme author has to agree on that ;) 11:17:41 <flo> that's fine, they can file bugs; I can resolve them as INVALID :-P. 11:18:11 <flo> but I'll wait a day or two and ask a question or two before doing that, so as to show we are listening :-P 11:18:43 * flo is looking at the "Add Buddy" thing for JS-XMPP 11:19:22 <flo> didn't we used to have a canAddBuddy flag or something similar to tell the UI that Facebook Chat accounts can't add buddies? 11:19:29 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 11:19:30 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 11:19:30 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 11:31:36 <Mic> OK, I'll think about this senderColor{N} thing again :) 11:32:16 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 11:34:48 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 11:34:49 * ChanServ sets mode +o clokep 11:41:02 <clokep> aleth: That patch looks OK...but I agree with flo it might be better to actually restyle what an action is instead of just removing the ***. 11:41:18 <clokep> Maybe we should have one of those bubbles that like BLAM or KABOOM would be in in comics? :P 11:41:54 * flo thinks we should change the bubble appearance in the halloween builds :-P 11:43:14 <clokep> To be...scary? :P 11:43:53 <flo> adding a "powered by libpurple" text would be enough for that :-P 11:44:11 <flo> I think we already have it all the time in the about dialog though 11:47:51 <aleth> yes, that was great :) 11:48:03 <flo> what? 11:48:03 <aleth> (the halloween build that is) 11:48:07 <flo> ah 11:48:23 <flo> we added that several years ago :-D 11:55:43 <-- MadWookiee has quit (Ping timeout) 11:56:45 * clokep is debating uploading a new IRC patch... 11:56:58 <flo> what are the pros and cons? 11:57:27 <clokep> Con: I don't remember when it was last tested nor how deeply I tested it. ;) 11:57:44 <clokep> Which leans me heavily toward no. 12:01:12 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 12:01:15 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 12:01:15 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 12:01:35 <clokep> I'll do some testing tonight and then upload one. 12:01:47 <clokep> And probably do some connecting/disconnecting testing. 12:02:13 <clokep> Bye 12:02:16 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 12:04:23 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 12:04:24 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 12:04:24 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 12:06:34 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 12:06:35 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 12:08:35 --> MadWookiee has joined #instantbird 12:41:22 --> clokep_work has joined #instantbird 12:41:22 * ChanServ sets mode +o clokep_work 12:44:08 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com denied review for attachment 1174 on bug 1273. 12:44:11 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1273 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Remove *** from Bubbles action messages 12:45:29 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm set the Resolution field on bug 1273 to INVALID. 12:45:50 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com denied review for attachment 1123 on bug 1178. 12:45:53 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1178 maj, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Regression: renamed contacts disappear from list 12:48:19 <clokep_work> Can anyone confirm bug 1146? 12:48:22 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1146 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, The highlight style in participants list should the same as is in contacts window 12:49:21 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1148 to DUPLICATE of bug 1100. 12:49:24 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1148 maj, --, ---, nobody, RESO DUPLICATE, Can't get onto the dukgo.com xmpp network 12:49:25 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1100 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Use Firefox untrusted cert dialog for "SSL Handshake failed" errors 12:55:45 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1099 to WORKSFORME. 12:55:47 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1099 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO WORKSFORME, Friends no longer receiving my messages on facebook chat 12:55:56 <clokep_work> Down to 79 UNCONFIRMED. ;) 12:56:15 <aleth> :) 12:56:17 <aleth> clokep_work: I'd only confirm it after testing to see if it actually looks better with contacts list-like styling. But I'm not sure the colour is the real issue, maybe it has to be considered within the larger question "what can I do with a selected nick" 13:03:47 <Mic> hmm, how do you start a private chat using the keyboard from the participants list? 13:03:54 <Mic> Enter doesn't seem to work 13:06:20 <aleth> Mic: That's not good, but I suspect one would use a / command anyway 13:09:01 <clokep_work> Mic: I think enter or space SHOULD work. 13:09:09 <clokep_work> I would check in 1.1 if they don't. :-/ 13:10:14 <Mic> Space is more for selecting things in my opinion but Enter should definitely work imo 13:10:45 <clokep_work> I thought it did. :-/ 13:11:50 <Mic> I don't have 1.1 at hand but it doesn't work in 1.0 either for me. 13:12:55 <Mic> Can someone confirm that this isn't a Mic-only problem? ;) 13:13:35 <aleth> Yes 13:17:05 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 892 to WORKSFORME. 13:17:13 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=892 cri, --, ---, nobody, RESO WORKSFORME, Lock-Up When Installing New Add-On 13:17:27 <flo> I think 1146 can be confirmed, as it's right that something is inconsistent there. 13:17:57 <flo> I'm not sure I would like the proposed solution on Mac, but on Windows were both background are white, it would make some sense :) 13:18:26 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1274 filed by benediktp@ymail.com. 13:18:29 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1274 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Pressing "Enter" on a participant in the list doesn't start a private chat 13:20:20 <clokep_work> Mic: Ah, I bet I was thinking that middle clicking on them works. 13:22:33 <Mic> flo: highlighted items on Windows are usually in shades of blue 13:22:39 <flo> I think 1043 (localized AIO) is WONTFIX 13:23:15 <flo> iirc we purposefully disabled the localization because it was a gettext mess with lots of hardcoded "Firefox" and "Mozilla" inside the strings 13:23:31 <flo> and even AIO has a pretty poor localization. 13:23:51 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 951 to WONTFIX. 13:23:56 <flo> French wordings are frequently impossible to understand without doing first a word-per-word translation to english to guess the meaning 13:23:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=951 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO WONTFIX, Sort buddy list by protocol and availability 13:26:53 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 905 to WONTFIX. 13:27:00 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=905 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO WONTFIX, Option to remove buddy list from taskbar. 13:27:05 <flo> the trivial fix for bug 1178 is to backout bug 772, right? 13:27:08 * clokep_work is being heartless in his WONTFIX today. 13:27:17 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1178 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Regression: renamed contacts disappear from list 13:27:18 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=772 enh, --, 1.2, mattdentremont, RESO FIXED, Use a sortComparator function on groups to allow easy changing of the order of contacts 13:27:38 <clokep_work> Yes, and the fix to bug 772. 13:27:48 <flo> ah, comment 1 says it's not a regression from 772 :-S 13:28:09 <clokep_work> Oh. :( 13:28:26 <clokep_work> Oh, wait. It's actually a regression between 1.0 and 1.1 I believe. 13:28:28 <flo> but you don't say why in that comment 13:28:57 <clokep_work> Because I've seen it in Instantbird 1.1, which didn't have the patch for bug 772. 13:30:46 <flo> clokep_work: "Sorry to mark a bunch of your bugs as WONTFIX all at once deOmega! We do love your ideas. :)" that doesn't seem as heartless has you pretended a few minutes ago ;). 13:31:12 --> deOmega1 has joined #instantbird 13:31:20 <flo> deOmega1: Good morning :) 13:31:39 <deOmega1> good morning flo :) 13:32:06 <flo> heh, bug 703 looks like something I was asked to do for Thunderbird 13:32:06 <deOmega1> good morning clokep. I actually came in because of your comment. :) 13:32:09 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=703 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Show a "..." message while the other person is typing 13:32:43 <deOmega1> NO, i am not taking it personally at all and I am pleased to see that you are closing off some of those 13:33:09 <deOmega1> I know you guys are working eally hard on this project and I do appreciate it 13:33:28 <deOmega1> But you will notice that it has been a while since you have seen me file abug 13:33:58 <clokep_work> Yes, it has been. 13:34:10 <clokep_work> Been trying to make sure we close things off instead of leaving them hanging. :( 13:35:02 <clokep_work> Unfortunately I'm stepping away from my desk. Will be back in a bit. 13:35:16 <flo> bug 713 seems like a perfect candidate for INCOMPLETE ;) 13:35:19 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=713 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Text box missing left and right padding 13:36:01 <deOmega1> reason is.. I think it is likely a matter of a few things... the project is too young for some ideas, because some ideas may just seem to not make sense at this stage, because for one, there are other priorities.... kinda like a a basketball star for an autograph in the middle of a game.. while he is on the court. 13:36:38 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 1092 to WONTFIX. 13:36:43 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1092 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO WONTFIX, Instantbird-1.1 crashes on PPC Mac 10.4.11 system with "Symbol not found: _open$UNIX2003" 13:37:17 <flo> deOmega1: from my point of view, there's nothing wrong with discussing ideas several years before we are ready to implement them 13:37:18 <deOmega1> BUt i have often seen a lot of dialogs where many suggestions are received as unnecessary because the developers themselves do not use them, and so, it may be best done as an addon, if at all 13:38:12 <deOmega1> One dialog between .. i forgot the chap's name, but he is or was working on twitter and emailed me at some point about a blog... 13:38:13 <flo> lots of things that arrived only with 1.0 (or even are still being worked on now) were planned before 0.1 was released :) 13:39:11 <deOmega1> but i saw that dialog between you guys and him at onepoint and it really sobered my expectations.. I think he g actually got upset and left the rooom during teh discussion (mayeb he can remember that) 13:39:32 <deOmega1> BUt that was my wake-up and I realize I need to give this project time to find its way 13:39:46 <flo> I've no idea of what you are talking about 13:40:52 <deOmega1> I think it was ecaron 13:41:05 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 13:41:56 <flo> aaaah! 13:42:12 <flo> now I can reread what you just said and make sense of at least half of it 13:42:28 <flo> I first read "working on twitter" as "was an employee of twitter.com" ;) 13:42:30 <deOmega1> :) 13:43:03 <deOmega1> ah, i was struggling to remember the name as I typed 13:44:05 <flo> I would be curious to know what we said exactly that "sobered your expectations" 13:46:02 <clokep_work> Can you give any examples of things that we feel are unnecessary because we don't use them? Just to talk a little less vaguely. 13:46:04 <flo> I see more and more frequently random nicks I don't know with "left the room (Quit: Instantbird 1.1)." in other channels :) 13:47:35 <flo> if we have upset ecaron, that may very well be with that "we need a new logo" discussion, where what a "better" logo means isn't the same for everybody :-/ 13:50:52 <deOmega1> I cannot recall the details of that conversation, but what i walked away with was he was having the hardest time communicating a point, because it seemed that you were steadfast with your related idea (which, seemed unlike you guys from my perspective) 13:51:47 <flo> still too vague to make any sense out of it :-/ 13:52:20 <flo> deOmega1: but please, if you feel we are doing something wrong, tell us immediately, not long enough after that nobody remembers ;). 13:52:39 <deOmega1> I am sorry, but that may be teh best I can do on that matter. 13:53:51 <deOmega1> You are right, I really should have said something sooner, because that was a pivotal point for me. As a matetr of fact, it was soon after that I decided that maybe i am spending too much time in teh room and too close to the situation and may need a different perspective. 13:54:13 <deOmega1> either case, I regret that I did not say anything at that point 13:54:40 <clokep_work> I have a feeling it was the logo conversation, which didn't seem to be going anywhere either (which is why I stepped away from that conversation). 13:55:43 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 890 to INCOMPLETE. 13:55:45 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=890 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO INCOMPLETE, Startup failure, purpleICoreService.storageConnection throws NS_ERROR_OUT_OF_MEMORY 13:56:20 <clokep_work> But yes, deOmega1 please let us know if you feel we're having an attitude problem (even about a particular point). Sometimes it's just a matter of someone that isn't part of the conversation saying "Hey, you guys need to step away and tlak about this in a few days." 13:56:27 <clokep_work> To make people realize they're being ridiculous, etc. etc. 13:56:54 * clokep_work will be back soon. 13:57:02 <flo> and sometimes we may just be having a bad day for whatever reason ;) 13:57:14 <flo> we are all humans :) 13:57:58 <deOmega1> indeed. One of the things i have realized though and i know you guys have, because you often put a smiley face when you make the comment, is basically routing requests to the addons option. 13:58:38 <deOmega1> indeed, but this is also why i thought that maybe it is not the time for various suggestions until you guys have the product close to where you want it, because then, you wil be more than happy to sign autographs 13:59:05 <flo> I think I missed the connection between add-ons and autographs :) 13:59:22 <aleth> I think the logo discussion didn't go anywhere partly because the decision hasn't been made "We need a new logo for version X". That means it lacks focus and just goes round in circles as people occasionally add another design or two. Also, there is then nothing actionable for people like ecaron who were keen to build an improved website on top of that (if I remember right) 14:00:24 <deOmega1> ... the project is too young for some ideas, because some ideas may just seem to not make sense at this stage, because for one, there are other priorities.... kinda like a a basketball star for an autograph in the middle of a game.. while he is on the court. 14:00:47 <deOmega1> a: asking 14:00:49 <aleth> deOmega1: I think part of what maybe often doesn't come across well is that "add-on" isn't dismissive. It's more that including some feature in the core of IB is a high bar, because it potentially adds clutter for all those that don't need it. 14:00:50 <flo> aleth: changing the logo is a massive time investment. The logo is in dozens of places. There's no reason to do it until someone can provide something that feels way better than the existing one for almost everybody 14:01:54 <aleth> flo: I don't disagree with that, it's a huge effort. Apart from that I suspect it never happens unless one decides "we need a new logo and we are going to push until there is enough agreement". 14:01:58 <flo> deOmega1: the most important feature of Instantbird is that it's clutter free (as aleth has just mentioned). We try to have default values that work well for almost everybody, and as little preferences as possible. 14:02:19 <flo> deOmega1: we actually spend a lot of time think about how we can remove things that aren't as useful as they should be. 14:03:40 <flo> deOmega1: and add-ons are great because they let anybody customize his experience with the software without imposing clutter / experimental stuff that may not be stable on everybody else 14:04:21 <flo> deOmega1: and claiming that we say "this should be an add-on" because we (developers) wouldn't have a use for it is a bit unfair, when most of the things *I* want to experiment with for my own use are built as add-ons (at least first). 14:05:05 <deOmega1> have you ever considered or done an itemized list of core components, including suggestions, and as a group or community, eliminate what may not be considered necessary in the core? 14:05:14 <aleth> Yup, I think everyone who develops for IB probably has their little stable of add-ons ;) 14:05:52 <flo> aleth: the people who are in a position to spent the time to actually change the logo don't have the skills to create a logo, so it wouldn't make any sense for them to decide "we need a new logo". 14:05:54 <flo> *spend 14:07:22 <flo> deOmega1: I don't think such a list would drive much motivation. Neither to build it, nor to act upon it. We are not a company with managers deciding what the staff needs to do, just a bunch of volunteers each having our set of ideas, and enjoying when they go well together :) 14:09:15 <aleth> flo: And people who have (at least some) of those skills suggest a logo, usually incomplete work, and then receive very little feedback because there is no perceived urgency. They'll get a comment from random individuals maybe, but no idea of whether there is enough support for it to be worth their while to continue working on it. It's the mismatch that I'm talking about. 14:09:45 <flo> deOmega1: by the way, "too young" isn't really a comment I enjoy reading for a project I've been pushing forward for 4 years and a half ;). And I'm almost sure your point wasn't actually related in any way to the age of the project :) 14:10:29 <flo> aleth: any suggestion to improve that? 14:10:55 <aleth> deOmega1: I disagree with "too young" too. An "old" IB should not be heavier with tons of extra parameters... 14:12:13 <flo> when it will be old, we will start thinking that it should be rewritten from scratch ;). Wait, isn't this what we've been doing in bug 759 and with all that JS-proto stuff? :) 14:12:17 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759 min, --, ---, florian, RESO FIXED, Reorganize purplexpcom 14:14:46 <aleth> flo: I feel I never saw the whole picture of what was being discussed when, so take this with a grain of salt. But when I look at the discussion in bug 1217, that could definitely be improved. If I imagine being one of the designers mentioned - for starters they are not present in the discussion themselves. 14:14:49 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1217 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, A new logo for Instantbird 14:15:02 <aleth> There are people talking via ecaron. Did they ever even get invited to #instantbird? To a "special weekly meeting" maybe? Would such a meeting be desired? 14:16:12 <aleth> Also, one could probably reach a consensus at least as to which designs are not wanted, so they are not pursued further. 14:16:31 <flo> I don't think doing a post mortem of what happened in that specific case is a good idea without Eric being here to tell how things were from his point of view. 14:17:17 <aleth> True. That's just because you asked, and because that's all I saw of the process... 14:17:18 <flo> aleth: I think none were wanted, but for very different reasons, and that gave us no clear idea of what the next step could be. 14:17:37 <flo> I asked what you would no, not what went wrong :). 14:17:49 <flo> s/no/do/ 14:18:11 <aleth> I did suggest what was noticeable by its absence ;) 14:18:13 <deOmega1> aleth: Old does not have to mean heavy, I do not think that is the right perception, and I am not saying old either but mature. 14:18:41 <aleth> deOmega1: Do you mean "there are features that have been wanted for ages that are still missing?" 14:18:48 <flo> mature is hard to define too :) 14:19:06 <flo> aleth: file transfer maybe? :-P 14:19:09 <deOmega1> flo: I am sorry if it sends that message, not my intent, as that would also show lack of appreciation for what I am using. 14:19:56 <flo> deOmega1: I didn't take it personally as I knew you weren't intending to sound aggressive. ;) 14:20:19 <aleth> deOmega1: It's more about trying to understand better what you think is missing that stops IB from being considered 'mature'. That would be useful to know 14:21:10 <flo> from my point of view, Instantbird will be mature, as a project, when I'll be able to take 2 months of vacations without anybody noticing a difference :) 14:22:34 <aleth> Nice definition :) 14:23:17 <flo> I'm almost sure this isn't what deOmega1 has in mind though :) 14:24:34 <deOmega1> aleth: You can answer that. Users like myself have customized IB to where it works fine for us (or we would not be using it). What you should do is install the release of IB without any addons or tweaks, and see what you are missing. If you have not done so recently, do not assume you know what you will be missing, give yourself the experience. Additionally, have someone that uses another client, try out IB, without addons 14:25:35 <flo> deOmega1: ok. 14:26:05 <flo> I use Colorize, Hide Auto-Joins, Highlight, Nick Serv Killer, Show Nick, and Status Reminder. 14:26:41 <flo> I'm not sure Colorize still works, so I assume I wouldn't notice if it wasn't installed 14:26:52 <aleth> I tend to expect something to be missing in every software that I use, before I tweak it, and after :/ 14:27:10 <flo> Hide Auto-joins is something I wouldn't want to live without, it hides that the auto-join feature is crappy. 14:27:29 <flo> I could live without highlight (I don't think it works well in current nightlies, by the way) 14:27:41 <aleth> Show Nick, Input History, Nickservkiller, Hide Autojoins, Toggle Participant List 14:27:43 <flo> Nick Serv Killer shouldn't be useful any more once JS-IRC lands and implements the same feature 14:27:55 <aleth> Agreed about Hide Autojoins 14:28:05 <flo> Show Nick is useful, I've been considering implementing it by default in a way that would be compatibile with all message themes (not easy). 14:28:12 <aleth> That should disappear once IRC accounts reconnect on rejoin 14:28:20 <flo> Status Reminder could be included by default, if people really wanted it. 14:28:52 <aleth> It's not bad that Show Nick is an add-on though - some people don't like colours 14:29:19 <deOmega1> When I stumbled upon IB years ago, I think the most you could have done was send a message successfully... and I was still excited by the fact that it was based on mozilla, but man, the spirit in the room was absolutely excited to the point of contagion. When i think of where it was and where it was now, it darn well seems like it should be considered complete, but realize that this is basing it on where it was. 14:29:27 <flo> aleth: yeah, but I think the detection code should be in the core, and add span tags that message themes would then be free to theme however they want 14:30:02 <flo> deOmega1: trying Instantbird 0.1 again now is just funny :) 14:30:14 <deOmega1> USe it as is and realize that will be the avreage installer's experience 14:30:17 <flo> even 0.1.3, if you don't want to be that extreme 14:30:36 <flo> deOmega1: there's no such thing as an "average installer's experience" 14:30:45 <flo> we are all very different in the way we use software 14:30:59 <aleth> deOmega1: Also, lots of add-ons have become unnecessary just recently. Tab complete, Reply to nick, ... 14:31:27 <aleth> So prototyping via add-on does happen. 14:32:07 <flo> deOmega1: for example, the average user doesn't auto-join a dozen IRC channels ;) 14:32:26 <flo> (assuming that mythical average user exists, of course) 14:33:54 <aleth> The conversation about minimize/close behaviour yesterday also suggests there is no such thing... 14:33:55 <flo> deOmega1: "Additionally, have someone that uses another client, try out IB, without addons" I love doing that (when I can see the screen. Reading the feedback someone writes isn't as interesting as seeing what confused/disappointed/delighted the user) 14:34:42 <flo> deOmega1: I once saw someone using the contact list full screen. I think you tend to keep that window to a small size ;). 14:34:51 <aleth> Yes. Btw that's why I liked your "I was confused on connecting to twitter" bug report 14:34:59 <aleth> It's good to know that 14:36:37 <deOmega1> be right there 14:49:36 --> waynenguyen has joined #instantbird 15:14:53 <-- chrisccoulson has quit (Connection reset by peer) 15:16:30 --> chrisccoulson has joined #instantbird 15:23:16 <flo> hmm, I wonder why imIAccountBuddy isn't named prplIAccountBuddy 15:24:51 <clokep_work> flo; Highlight from hg works fine, just not the version on AIO. 15:25:42 <flo> what was the fix/issue? 15:26:42 <flo> the version I have installed already has this fix https://hg.instantbird.org/addons/rev/e6281ed3a17f 15:26:58 <aleth> flo: I think I had to manually fix Hide Autojoins too some while back (a path change), not sure if that's on AIO 15:27:23 <flo> aleth: https://hg.instantbird.org/addons/rev/e02aab0a21ab 15:27:33 <flo> we haven't pushed that on AIO because it would break it for 1.1 users 15:27:47 <aleth> Right, makes sense. 15:33:11 <clokep_work> I don't know. 15:33:18 <clokep_work> But I'm fairly certain it was working yesterday... 15:33:55 <flo> is it case sensitive? 15:34:13 <flo> I'm sure people have said "Instantbird" or "InstantBird" several times without it notifying me 15:34:24 <clokep_work> Ah. :( 15:34:32 <clokep_work> Sorry...I don't know if highlight is working. 15:34:38 <clokep_work> I was thinking of Colorize. 15:34:44 <flo> you confused it with show nick? 15:34:49 <flo> ah, colorize? 15:34:59 <flo> :) 15:35:02 <clokep_work> Makes IMs have colors like MUCs. 15:35:10 <clokep_work> I always confuse those three, yeah. 15:35:29 <flo> I can live without colorize 15:35:31 <clokep_work> I think adding spans for nicks and then styling them in the themes makes sense, yes. 15:35:38 <clokep_work> (I.e. Show Nick.) 15:35:45 <clokep_work> And Status Reminder should be in the core IMO too! 15:35:45 <flo> mostly because I rarely IM more than one person at once these days 15:36:39 <flo> ok... anybody can feel free to make a patch from it then :) 15:38:56 <aleth> Hmm, I think I prefer status reminder as an add-on, so you can turn if off ;) 15:39:21 <flo> aleth: do you need to turn it off? 15:39:31 <aleth> Well, I don't use it ;) 15:39:43 <flo> that doesn't mean it would be in your way 15:40:05 <aleth> A large red area is visually a bit distracting I find. 15:40:15 <flo> you are not supposed to talk while away :-P 15:40:44 <aleth> This may be true, but I think that's a little bit too much presuming how users behave ;) 15:40:47 <flo> aleth: but it's actually not distracting enough. After a few months (years? :() I no longer notice it all the time, and send messages while away _again_ :( 15:41:05 <flo> aleth: the point is to teach them how to use their IM client correctly 15:41:13 <flo> not to reinforce existing broken behaviors 15:41:34 <aleth> flo: Yeah, what I mean is related to the away vs busy discussion 15:42:34 <flo> I have a feeling it would be more productive for me to continue implement add/remove buddies in JS-XMPP rather than asking questions about what you mean by that :) 15:42:43 <aleth> probably :) 15:44:06 <aleth> (Just as an aside, you could always write a "set me to Available when I send a message" add-on ;) ) 15:44:28 <flo> i've meant to do that for a while 15:45:11 <flo> but I think it should do that only if I've been unavailable and then away/idle before sending the message 15:46:11 <flo> I feel it's quite ok for me to set my status to unavailable and then say "I'll be away for the next 2 hours" to someone; the add-on shouldn't change my status when I do that 16:03:10 <flo> clokep_work: re bug 383, really? 16:03:15 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=383 tri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Use Template.html in the message theme system 16:07:50 <clokep_work> flo: Isn't that what the real request is. 16:08:15 <flo> I've just added a comment in the bug 16:09:09 * flo suggests INVALID 16:09:31 <flo> is anybody interested in working on bug 958? 16:09:37 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=958 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Show last messages (history) in new chat windows 16:09:48 <flo> the reward there seems pretty big compared to the (estimated) amount of work to do 16:17:57 <clokep_work> Ah, sorry. I misunderstood that request a bit. 16:18:04 --> igorko has joined #instantbird 16:18:16 <clokep_work> I'm interested in having it done! :) 16:23:18 <deOmega1> aleth: sorry about the long away time. Here is something that shoudl be a core to IB. Status message should remain after restarting IB. 16:23:30 <deOmega1> Someone did an addon sometime ago and that seems to have stopped working 16:24:14 <flo> deOmega1: if the extension is broken, have you tried pinging the author? I think the author was skeledre w 16:24:50 <deOmega1> flo: Flo, yes, i agree about the contact list in fullsreen beiing too much. 16:24:58 <flo> but I think I agree it should be there by default, at the very least when restarting (update, add-on install, ...) 16:25:22 <flo> and it's probably quite easy to do now that bug 759 is fixed :) 16:25:28 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759 min, --, ---, florian, RESO FIXED, Reorganize purplexpcom 16:25:29 <deOmega1> flo: No, i have not addressed it 16:26:33 <deOmega1> I will say though that I can see myself being more involved with the contact list, when the features you mentioend before are implemented 16:27:14 <deOmega1> I know you steadfast believe that there isno such thing as what a typical user should be, and i cannot argue with that.. except to say 16:27:20 <flo> "the features you mentioend before are implemented " -> vague enough that the meaning of the whole sentence would have been the same if you omitted that part ;). 16:28:43 <deOmega1> sorry... 16:28:49 <deOmega1> thiking 16:29:16 <deOmega1> the unified buddy list or somethng liek that, where the buddy list has more information than just buddy list 16:29:34 <deOmega1> so, it becomes something tor eference periodically 16:30:05 <deOmega1> such as hidden conversations and so many other things we seem to have disucced in the past that i am sure i dont have to regurgitate them for you to get the idea 16:30:15 <flo> isn't this more or less what we already have, now that all contacts display their status message? 16:30:52 <flo> conversations on hold are already in use, and very useful 16:30:59 <flo> that was probably the key feature of 1.1 :) 16:31:31 <deOmega1> ok... i will try to address this later properly bcause i apparrently do not have that capacity at the moment 16:34:46 <deOmega1> this is probably the most significant takeaway today... whether it is new information or not 16:34:54 <deOmega1> 8:07:26 AM - flo: deOmega1: I don't think such a list would drive much motivation. Neither to build it, nor to act upon it. We are not a company with managers deciding what the staff needs to do, just a bunch of volunteers each having our set of ideas, and enjoying when they go well together :) 16:35:47 <flo> deOmega1: I can add that such a list would always be outdated :) 16:36:13 <flo> deOmega1: and what's the closest to a list of things we want "as a community" is on bugzilla :) 16:36:23 <deOmega1> of course.. it cannot be aone-time process 16:36:37 <flo> deOmega1: see https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=sw%3A1.2 16:37:18 <flo> we are mostly focusing on what we need to do shortterm, because a list of what do to long term would be outdated before being useful 16:37:31 <deOmega1> If that makes sense to you and works for you, then so be it 16:37:57 <flo> deOmega1: you sound disappointed 16:38:08 <deOmega1> I disagree 16:40:29 <deOmega1> rather.. I have a hard time believing that you seriously believe that making a list of core components would be left untouched to become outdated 16:40:58 <deOmega1> Not in technology anyway 16:41:02 <flo> deOmega1: I tried several times ;) 16:41:38 --> Tomek has joined #instantbird 16:41:39 <deOmega1> Ok, initially when i asked, you did not indicate that you tried without success :) 16:42:58 <deOmega1> so, to answer my question, yes you tried and it does not a good solution.. to which is now say.. bummer, ok :).. next step 16:45:32 <deOmega1> clokep: My initial reason for coming here today was to say again that i truly appreciate you closing out the bugs and it is not a problem. I thought of doing it sometime back but it would have been inappropriate for me to do that after bringing them up. They seemed more like annoyances after a while, so, thank you 16:46:57 <deOmega1> I appreciate you guys giving me the ear and i hope that i have not rambled on here in a way that would seem discouraging.. that is certainly not what i want.. I have tor emember that this is a voluntary project and I truly appreciate you guys for that and much more 16:47:33 <deOmega1> because i have learned a whole lot in general through you guys regarding the world of software developers 16:47:45 <flo> :) 17:03:34 <-- gerard-majax has quit (Ping timeout) 17:05:58 <clokep_work> For the record, I consider bugzilla to be our "community things we want to do list". 17:10:17 <deOmega1> clokep_work: Thank you. have a great day 17:10:27 --> myk1 has joined #instantbird 17:10:28 <deOmega1> have a great day all 17:10:31 <clokep_work> You too, thanks for the feedback. :) 17:10:42 <deOmega1> You are definitely welcome 17:11:41 <-- deOmega1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 17:13:43 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1035 to DUPLICATE of bug 1217. 17:13:47 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1035 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO DUPLICATE, Update the Instantbird icon to signify an instant messenger 17:13:48 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1217 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, A new logo for Instantbird 17:17:13 <clokep_work> Is bug 134 something we want and just haven't done anything about or is it not something we want? 17:17:16 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=134 min, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Forums on site 17:17:19 <clokep_work> If we don't want it I'll resolve it as WONTFIX. 17:17:45 <flo> wontfix is ok with me 17:18:00 <flo> I think it's something we want if and only if we have a good moderation team 17:27:06 --> Mook_as has joined #instantbird 17:38:18 --> go8765 has joined #instantbird 17:38:27 <-- go8765 has quit (Client exited) 17:51:38 <-- myk1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1) 18:03:05 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 134 to WONTFIX. 18:03:07 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=134 min, --, ---, nobody, RESO WONTFIX, Forums on site 18:05:55 <clokep_work> :) 18:06:16 <clokep_work> is bug 167 a dup of bug 155? 18:06:21 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=167 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, System wide proxy settings never detected 18:06:22 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Unify proxy settings 18:07:05 <flo> hmm, maybe. We will probably get that for free once proxies are handled by Mozilla for all accounts 18:10:13 <clokep_work> Bug 702 is WONTFIX I think? 18:10:18 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=702 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Autohide buddy list 18:10:20 <clokep_work> (Sounds like add-on stuff to me.) 18:11:34 <flo> right, add-on :) 18:12:43 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 702 to WONTFIX. 18:12:47 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=702 enh, --, ---, nobody, RESO WONTFIX, Autohide buddy list 18:14:39 --> devfil has joined #instantbird 18:27:16 <flo> the whole code for authorization (http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/purplexpcom/src/purpleInitAccounts.cpp#174 lines 174 to 291) is so wrong... :( 18:27:16 --> go8765 has joined #instantbird 18:27:46 <clokep_work> Because it's in C++? 18:27:59 <flo> yeah 18:28:17 <flo> and also because it's hardcoded to be used only with libpurple accounts 18:28:26 <flo> and because using a prompt for it is hardcoded 18:28:51 <clokep_work> Ah, instead of generating a request object or something. 18:28:57 <flo> clokep_work: do you want to review the patch for adding/removing JS-XMPP buddies? 18:29:22 <clokep_work> flo: Yes. 18:31:20 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org requested review from clokep@gmail.com for attachment 1175 on bug 1251. 18:31:22 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1251 nor, --, ---, florian, NEW, Can't accept/add buddies with JS-XMPP (regression for GTalk accounts) 18:33:08 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 18:36:08 <clokep_work> Hmm....Ill have some comments, will need to wait a bit though 18:41:16 <-- devfil has quit (Ping timeout) 18:59:58 <-- MadWookiee has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1) 19:31:19 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 19:31:19 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 19:33:24 <-- go8765 has quit (Quit: go8765) 19:37:59 <Mic> Can http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/today#m353 really break anything for 1.1 users? The minimal version was changed to 1.2a1pre .. shouldn't that just not affect 1.1 users? 19:38:40 <Mic> Somehow I'm also confusing these: http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/today#m367 19:38:50 --> Mnyromyr has joined #instantbird 19:39:22 <Mic> Maybe "Colorize" is as name not as specific as it could be. 19:50:49 <-- mmkmou has quit (Ping timeout) 19:50:51 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 713 to INCOMPLETE. 19:50:53 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=713 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO INCOMPLETE, Text box missing left and right padding 20:01:44 --> flo has joined #instantbird 20:01:44 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 20:02:16 <flo> clokep_work: thanks for the comments! :) 20:04:01 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout) 20:10:18 <Mic> I'll certainly remember today's discussion next time I think something could make a good add-on :( 20:13:14 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird 20:14:04 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 20:14:25 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 20:14:25 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 20:25:01 <-- igorko has quit (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) 20:26:20 <flo> Mic: uh? What's wrong about making a good add-on? 20:45:13 <-- chrisccoulson has quit (Ping timeout) 20:47:09 --> Mic1 has joined #instantbird 20:47:21 --> chrisccoulson has joined #instantbird 20:47:23 <Mic1> The idea that we might say it as lame excuse not to bother with something. 20:47:32 <Mic1> That's the idea I got from the discussion 20:47:45 <-- Mic has quit (Ping timeout) 20:51:39 * jwir3 is now known as jwir3|lunch 20:59:03 * Mic1 is now known as Mic 20:59:19 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 21:01:26 <flo> Mic: I don't remember us ever using "it could be a good add-on" as a (lame) excuse 21:02:00 <flo> when we think it's something we need to do in the core but don't want to bother with it now, the bug stays open 21:02:30 <Mic> I didn't say that we are doing that. 21:02:44 <flo> we've been saying that when we made a product decision that the requested behavior wasn't what we want by default, and offering a helping hand for the requester if (s)he wants Instantbird to behave the way (s)he described :) 21:03:04 <flo> :) 21:06:30 <clokep_work> flo You're welcome. 21:07:54 <Mic> flo: this is absolutely not about what we actually do but how deOmega seemed to see it. 21:10:28 <Mic> (or rather how I read what he seemed to think about it) 21:10:29 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com granted review for attachment 1175 on bug 1251. 21:10:31 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1251 nor, --, ---, florian, NEW, Can't accept/add buddies with JS-XMPP (regression for GTalk accounts) 21:10:49 <clokep_work> Is bug 1134 WONTFIX? 21:10:52 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1134 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Don't create new history log after closing the conversation 21:11:12 <clokep_work> I think it's really complaining that the log viewer sucks, but somehow complaining about how the files are created... 21:13:03 <flo> clokep_work: I think if you s/closing the conversation/closing the tab/ the request is valid 21:13:48 <flo> the last time I thought about that, my conclusion was more or less that it makes more sense to cut after 20 minutes or so of inactivity than after the user has closed the tab 21:14:17 <flo> and he's also complaining that the log viewer sucks, yes :) 21:15:59 <clokep_work> Alright. 21:16:08 <clokep_work> It's like two interacting complaints, so I dislike that bug. :P 21:16:57 <flo> clokep_work: it's pretty clear that nothing useful will come out of this bug :( 21:17:34 <flo> like for most poorly phrased/scoped reports, it's easier to file a separate bug for each thing we want to work on, then reference the bug where we actually did the work and close the "original" bug 21:18:00 <clokep_work> Right. 21:30:36 <instantbot> benediktp@ymail.com set the Resolution field on bug 232 to INVALID. 21:30:40 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=232 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO INVALID, Can't add IRC channels to the buddy list 21:32:31 <flo> we will soon need to get more bug reporters to keep you all busy triaging/resolving them ;) 21:33:22 <clokep_work> Or I need to find something better to do while I compile. 21:33:27 <clokep_work> I have a rolly chair...just need a sword. 21:33:49 <Mic> clokep_work: :D 21:36:30 <clokep_work> I think that's most of the "easy" ones though. 21:37:51 <clokep_work> bug 706 --> wontfix, addon? 21:37:56 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=706 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Automatically resize buddy list 21:39:35 <flo> that could make sense with a transparent background and if we give up on the idea of using the blist status bar to show the connection state of accounts 21:39:43 <Mic> Would be nice if we stripped away all chrome in the process - only contact items with nothing else around it 21:39:52 <flo> would be easier to experiment with an add-on anyway 21:39:58 <clokep_work> But all that sounds like stuff for an add-on. ;) 21:40:01 <clokep_work> Alright I'l lleave it. 21:40:15 <flo> this request sounds like someone who liked Adium, by the way ;) 21:40:16 <clokep_work> bug 937, confirmed? 21:40:19 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=937 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Put new message count in window title 21:40:38 <clokep_work> (Or maybe suggest it as an add-on?) 21:40:49 <clokep_work> I'd prefer to put it as a badge on the Taskbar once we update to Moz 10. :) 21:40:57 <clokep_work> s/badge/overlay/ 21:41:05 * Mic too. 21:41:15 <clokep_work> You happen to know a bug # for that? 21:41:38 <Mic> You can find it in the "overlay" bug 21:41:46 <clokep_work> bug 738 21:41:51 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=738 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Windows 7 support for overlay icons on the task bar 21:41:52 <flo> add-on :) (for bug 937) 21:42:31 <Mic> clokep: he even filed it for Win7. 21:42:44 <Mic> So it makes sense to refer to this. 21:42:44 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 937 to WONTFIX. 21:42:46 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=937 enh, --, ---, nobody, RESO WONTFIX, Put new message count in window title 21:43:03 * clokep_work almost duped it. 21:43:23 <clokep_work> bug 414: Do we care about being able to enable purple plugins? 21:43:26 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=414 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, --enable-purple-plugins doesn't work 21:45:53 <flo> clokep_work: how do you feel about it? 21:46:14 <clokep_work> I don't really know what doing that does. :) 21:46:43 <flo> it was a configure switch to let purplexpcom load the libpurple plugins that are present in the system 21:47:16 <clokep_work> Ah. 21:47:18 <flo> the use case is for linux packagers who package have a libpurple package and don't want to duplicate the prpls in the instantbird package 21:47:32 <clokep_work> Right, that makes sense. 21:47:43 <Mic> "if we give up on the idea of using the blist status bar to show the connection state of accounts": do we really need to show it or are we only interested in cases where something isn't as it should be (i.e. by showing a notification that an account failed to connect/was disconnected/master password required to sign-on/..)? 21:48:12 <flo> Mic: how do you know "isn't as it should be"? 21:48:22 <flo> I may want some accounts to be offline, and some to be online 21:49:16 <flo> I guess it depends if we want to show to the user "look, here's some crap you need to look at to fix it" or "hey, Instantbird currently connects you to all these networks, enjoy!" 21:50:15 <flo> clokep_work: the problem is, I did it because it seemed easy 21:50:23 <flo> but it doesn't actually work, it just mostly works 21:50:33 <flo> and that bug report explains what doesn't work (didn't work at the time) 21:50:40 <clokep_work> Right. 21:50:43 <clokep_work> :( 21:50:59 <clokep_work> I'm guessing the situation hasn't gotten any better. 21:51:06 <flo> we basically are in trouble if the system libpurple was compiled with different configure options that what we expect 21:51:23 <clokep_work> Ah. So maybe it isn't something we want then. :-/ Although distros won't like that. 21:51:52 <flo> at this point we need to duplicate the mozilla platform for Ubuntu, so how bad could a handful of libpurple plugins be? ;) 21:52:00 <Mic> flo: if someone connects an account by himself and it gets disconnected without user interaction. If it can't connect when automatically signing on, ... that's what I'm referring to. 21:52:37 <aleth> Maybe check with the reporter whether they still care about the duplication? 21:52:39 <flo> Mic: if it's disconnected, but an auto-reconnect timer is active, do you show it? 21:52:54 <flo> aleth: it's a condition to be packaged on debian :( 21:52:56 <Mic> Not immeadiately 21:53:34 <flo> aleth: well, we are packaged on debian, but only in debian testing, they refuse to let the package go to debian stable until this is "fixed" 21:53:49 --> mmkmou has joined #instantbird 21:54:34 <flo> I have a feeling that the fix we will eventually implement is: let debian package instantbird without libpurple, and let debian users download libpurple through AIO :-P 21:55:43 <clokep_work> bug 491 is FIXED IN JS-XMPP, right? 21:55:49 <-- micahg has quit (Ping timeout) 21:55:49 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=491 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, XMPP and XMPP based protocols don't allow Resource name to be changed without deleting. 21:56:46 <flo> clokep_work: yes, but we can't replace the generic xmpp plugin until we support DNS SRV... 21:58:03 <clokep_work> Ah true. 21:59:53 <flo> but we can still mark it as depending on JS-XMPP 22:00:15 <aleth> Any hope for DNS SRV transpire from Toronto meetings? 22:01:28 <clokep_work> Any thoughts on duping bug 843 into bug 1238? 22:01:31 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=843 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Three column log window 22:01:32 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1238 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, No way to view logs for which no buddy or current conversation exists 22:02:49 <flo> 843 looks invalid to me 22:03:25 <flo> but yeah 22:03:44 <aleth> Yeah. The design in 843 is not ideal but the problem is the same 22:03:50 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 843 to DUPLICATE of bug 1238. 22:03:56 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=843 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO DUPLICATE, Three column log window 22:03:56 <flo> the valid frustration behind that request is expressed in 1238 :) 22:03:57 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1238 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, No way to view logs for which no buddy or current conversation exists 22:04:07 <clokep_work> Exactly my thought too. 22:04:11 <clokep_work> OK I'm going (to the gym) home. 22:04:29 <flo> you live at the gym? :-P 22:04:29 <Mic> clokep_work: what did you mean with "updated webrunner code" in bug 376? 22:04:33 <flo> good evening :) 22:04:35 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=376 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Start with OS / on sign-on 22:04:52 <clokep_work> WebRunner became Prism became WebRunner. 22:04:58 <clokep_work> It had code to do things like that. 22:05:19 <Mic> OK, thanks 22:05:25 <clokep_work> I have the link around somewhere, bad of me not to include it there. :( 22:05:36 <clokep_work> I have it downloaded too I think haha. 22:05:41 <flo> Mozilla Labs... :( 22:06:03 <clokep_work> Yes, but I mean the source after people revived it. 22:06:30 <-- clokep_work has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 22:06:54 <flo> people = the original author after he was no longer a mozilla contractor? 22:07:26 <aleth> When I was on Windows, I always disliked apps that made themselves autostart. But I suppose it would be on-demand. 22:08:12 <aleth> On KDE, my desktop just restores itself on login to how it was before logging off ;) 22:10:45 <flo> aleth: I disliked apps that made themselves auto-start at the first run, or that kept prompting for being allowed to start automatically 22:10:55 <flo> but for IM clients, I think that's quite useful 22:11:50 --> micahg has joined #instantbird 22:13:28 <flo> Good night 22:13:30 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 22:20:29 <instantbot> benediktp@ymail.com set the Resolution field on bug 411 to WORKSFORME. 22:20:32 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=411 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO WORKSFORME, For some Facebook contacts the user-id is shown instead of their name 22:46:35 <-- wesj has quit (Input/output error) 22:46:42 --> wesj has joined #instantbird 22:51:47 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 22:52:17 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 22:52:17 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 22:55:35 <Mic> If someone also likes customizations with userChrome.css: separating different customizations into separate files and including them using @import ".."; makes it much easier to change/maintain. 23:00:53 <-- Mnyromyr has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [SeaMonkey 1.1.19/2010030105]) 23:09:38 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 23:09:56 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 23:09:56 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 23:16:02 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 23:19:00 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 23:19:00 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 23:21:20 --> go8765 has joined #instantbird 23:23:47 <-- go8765 has quit (Quit: go8765) 23:26:48 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1275 filed by dodobird@mailinator.com. 23:26:50 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1275 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Preference display issues 23:28:32 <-- micahg has quit (Ping timeout) 23:29:37 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 23:30:29 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 23:30:29 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 23:35:24 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 23:36:01 <aleth> down to 62 Unconfirmeds... 23:36:59 <aleth> bug 745 - I assume this is WFM these days? 23:37:03 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=745 maj, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Automatic reconnection to accounts is slow and not always work. 23:37:20 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 23:37:20 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 23:38:16 <Mook_as> it doesn't always work for me :p 23:38:34 <Mook_as> (that doesn't mean the bug is actionable, of course) 23:38:52 <aleth> Oh. 23:39:06 <aleth> Want to confirm it with some additional info? 23:41:25 <Mook_as> there's... not really any information I can add, though 23:42:32 <aleth> You can confirm it happens ;) I think it's either that or resolving incomplete, which seems unfair 23:43:04 * jwir3|lunch is now known as jwir3 23:43:05 <Mic> This time without Chromebug changes, all by add-ons and userChrome.css: http://i.imgur.com/f9GbQ.png :) 23:44:05 <aleth> Mook_as: Is it a dupe of bug 1249? 23:44:09 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1249 maj, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, If a Windows 7 machine goes to sleep due to inactivity, Instantbird does not attempt to reconnect ac 23:44:21 <Mook_as> aleth: yeah, that was the one I was thinking of 23:44:23 --> micahg has joined #instantbird 23:44:58 <Mook_as> hmm, or maybe yet a different one 23:45:02 <Mook_as> I'm not sure at this point :p 23:45:17 <aleth> Mic: No menu... are you adding an "Instantbird button"? 23:45:34 <Mic> No, the menu scrolls in when I hover the upper section of the list :) 23:45:52 <Mic> And it's animated, of course :) 23:48:47 <aleth> Bug 947 sounds like a good add-on imho 23:48:52 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=947 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Snap chat windows to the buddy list 23:49:23 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 23:54:24 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 23:54:24 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 23:56:19 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 23:57:59 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm set the Resolution field on bug 947 to WONTFIX. 23:58:03 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=947 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO WONTFIX, Snap chat windows to the buddy list 23:58:15 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 23:58:15 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 23:58:44 <aleth> I hope people agree with that one...