#instantbird log on 02 02 2012

All times are UTC.

00:03:48 <clokep> Mook_as: Do you know if there's a way to get brandShortName from JS?
00:03:56 <clokep> All the examples I see depend on a bundle element being in the XUL.
00:04:54 <clokep> Ah I found it. :)
00:13:42 <clokep> flo: I found what I was referring to that I thought MUST be set by the client.
00:13:51 <clokep> *by the user.
00:13:55 <clokep> Something to do with CTCP.
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03:16:58 <instant-buildbot> build #384 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Failure [failed hg_1]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/384
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05:25:30 <instant-buildbot> build #469 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/469
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06:52:45 <instant-buildbot> build #375 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/375
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08:31:45 <Mic> Hi
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08:48:58 <Mic> flo: I wanted to talk to you about this german computer news magazine, please ping me when you're there.
08:49:03 <Mic> *here
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10:08:06 <flo> hello :)
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10:33:16 <flo> Mic: hello
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10:34:16 <Mic> Hi!
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10:36:02 <flo> what did you want to ask about that German magazine?
10:37:00 <Mic> I read the permission form and it seems pretty straighforward. Are you interested in getting it into the magazine?
10:37:58 <flo> I'm not interested in doing the work for this myself, but any exposure we can have is good to have :)
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10:50:57 <Mic> I don't like to fill in that form in my name since I'm always unsure about licensing stuff and such :(
10:51:37 <Mic> And I tend to err on side of caution ;)
10:51:52 <flo> It's GPLed
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11:18:36 <clokep> Hello.
11:18:54 <flo> clokep: hello :)
11:19:05 <flo> have you found your syntax error? xpcshell helped?
11:19:13 <clokep> xpcshell helped me find one. :(
11:19:21 <clokep> I think I have on in a jsm, which it's not finding.
11:19:48 <clokep> It only occurs if I run the registerCommands" function...but I made very little changes to the ircCommands.jsm.
11:19:54 <flo> are you going to attach a new patch soon?
11:20:07 <clokep> I can!
11:20:11 <flo> (otherwise there'll be a conflict if I continue reviewing the other files)
11:20:57 <clokep> Yes. :P
11:22:04 <clokep> flo: Attached.
11:22:33 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com cancelled review? for attachment 1147 on bug 507.
11:22:40 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=507 enh, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Implement IRC in JavaScript
11:24:36 <clokep> It sucks when you forget to mark things obsolete. :(
11:25:42 <clokep> Some of your comments about connecting/disconnecting I didn't fully understand though.
11:28:46 <clokep> I did add a decent amount more of comments though. :) I think it's a fairly large ratio of code to comments.
11:28:57 <clokep> Or rather comments to code.
11:30:05 <flo>  9 files changed, 197 insertions(+), 162 deletions(-) from your changes
11:30:57 <clokep> Sounds about right. Can you pastebin the interdiff? (Which I'm assuming you made? If not, don't bother.)
11:31:21 <clokep> Note that some of that code is untested on account of the syntax error. :(
11:32:05 <flo> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/11257
11:33:15 <clokep> When is getTooltipInfo called vs. requestBuddyInfo?
11:33:58 <flo> getTooltipInfo is for an prplIAccountBuddy or a prplIConversation, it's to display tabs and contact tooltips
11:34:15 <clokep> OK.
11:34:17 <flo> requestBuddyInfo is called for the prplIConvChatBuddy tooltips (the nicklist tooltips)
11:34:31 <clokep> Ah, right, it's on the *Account*Buddy.
11:34:44 <clokep> I kept thinking it was on the *ConvChat*Buddy.
11:34:53 <flo> the basic idea is that getTooltipInfo should return immediately with whatever info is already available
11:35:05 <clokep> Which is what I did, I think.
11:35:07 <flo> and requestBuddyInfo is asynchronous and can fetch data from the server
11:36:06 <flo> options.realname=Real name ?
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11:36:35 <clokep> Yes.
11:36:41 <clokep> Bah I have an error at line 553 of your interdiff.
11:36:44 <clokep> It shouldn't be there.
11:36:46 <flo> is that isplayed anyway?
11:37:29 <clokep> Excuse me?
11:37:56 <flo> *displayed
11:38:02 <flo> *anywhere
11:38:09 <clokep> What? The version?
11:38:16 <flo> options.realname=Real name ?
11:38:29 <clokep> Uhhhh...I guess I removed that option!
11:38:31 <clokep> You're right. :)
11:41:33 <flo> why the new part() method?
11:41:53 <clokep> So I can call it from ircBase.jsm as well.
11:41:57 <clokep> Without duplicating code.
11:42:17 <clokep> I mean from ircCommands.jsm
11:43:30 * clokep is going to work.
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11:57:17 <flo> I still don't understand the logic of the code sending the ISON messages.
11:58:13 <flo> if (buddiesLength >= this._isOnLength) break; <-- so if the length is greater than this._isOnLength, what happens?
11:59:19 <flo> why are you caching the quitMessage and partMessage values at all?
12:09:39 <flo> clokep: in ircCTCP.jsm, ClientVersion (used twice) doesn't seem defined. You have a clientVersion symbol (lowercase c) exported from another module though
12:10:44 <flo> clientVersion may not be a very explicit name by the way :-S
12:11:37 <flo> default: Services.prefs.getCharPref("plugins.prpl.irc.defaultQuitMessage") should probably be a getter
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12:20:26 <clokep_work> flo once the buddiesLength >= this._isOnLength we've filled up the message so it's ready to be sent.
12:20:35 <clokep_work> So we stop trying to search for more nicks and we just send the message.
12:20:49 <clokep_work> Once a reply is received (and a timeout occurs), we repeat.
12:20:58 <clokep_work> (Except now those nicks are at the end of the queue.
12:21:52 <clokep_work> I could not cache the quit and part messages, I thought of that, but wasn't sure if there's a big perf hit for hitting prefs.
12:22:12 <clokep_work> I had changed the name from ClientVersion to clientVersion, I guess I missed a couple of references. :(
12:22:26 <clokep_work> And it's not really explicit, do you have a better name?
12:22:58 <clokep_work> And yes, I agree. Should be a getter...what does that do exactly again? Does it just cache the value?
12:23:13 <clokep_work> Or it doesn't load the value until it's needed?
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13:01:34 <flo> clokep_work: "it doesn't load the value until it's needed" (if it's a getter)
13:01:42 <clokep_work> OK! :)
13:01:49 <flo> without it, the pref value will be fetched and cached when the JS file is read/compiled
13:02:29 <flo> clokep_work: "I could not cache the quit and part messages, I thought of that, but wasn't sure if there's a big perf hit for hitting prefs." it's not only the pref hit. If I go change my quit message and quit, I expect my new quit message to be used, not the one that was current at the time I connected the account
13:03:33 <clokep_work> Yes, but our account settings in general don't work like that.
13:03:39 <clokep_work> I agree it's a better way to do it though.
13:04:01 <flo> "our account settings in general don't work like that" what doesn't work like that?
13:04:32 <clokep_work> All of the IRC account settings that I load only when the connection is made.
13:04:46 <clokep_work> (Like changing the character set, you have to reconnect.)
13:06:59 <flo> hmm
13:07:07 <flo> I'm not sure I would expect the encoding to change without reconnecting
13:07:20 <flo> actually, I'm not sure I would expect to have to configure an encoding in the first place :-D
13:07:30 <clokep_work> Yes, yes. I know it's bad.
13:07:37 <clokep_work> I agree with you anyway though.
13:09:57 <flo> :)
13:10:23 <clokep_work> Plus it gets rid of a couple lines of code, which I'm all for. ;)
13:10:50 <flo> :)
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13:38:19 <flo> the 2 JS-IRC accounts I have on my test profile claim to be "connected for 21 hours"
13:38:28 <flo> I don't believe them :-P
13:42:55 <flo> clokep_work: "once the buddiesLength >= this._isOnLength we've filled up the message so it's ready to be sent." so if you have filed it with more than what you could, what happens to the overflowing nick?
13:51:56 <flo> what did you mean by "It only occurs if I run the registerCommands" function...but I made very little changes to the ircCommands.jsm."?
13:52:13 <flo> if I comment out the registerCommands call, I still can't create an IRC account :-(
14:05:29 <flo> clokep_work: it wasn't a parse error
14:05:46 <flo> just a super unfortunate preference name choice. It seems plugins.* is a reserved branch
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14:19:44 <flo> I don't think it's an improvement to remove the default charset value
14:44:22 <flo> clokep_work: I suspect your computation of message lengths are completely wrong for UTF8 messages. You will probably need something similar to what I had to do for https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=518597 (search for charCodeToByteCount in the patch)
14:44:59 <flo> well, unless the IRC specs says the max length is in characters rather than in bytes, but I would be surprised :)
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15:20:30 <clokep_work> flo: You nick can't overflow.
15:22:24 <clokep_work> And it's 512 characters, but above that it also says it's an "8-bit protocol", so I think it actually does mean bytes.
15:23:05 <clokep_work> So, we check for buddiesLength >= this._isOnLength directly after adding a new nick, but we only add that new nick if it fits beforehand.
15:23:06 <flo> is unicode allowed in nicknames?
15:23:13 <clokep_work> Yes.
15:23:18 <flo> ouch :(
15:23:37 <clokep_work> I might need to see how other clients handle counting of characters.
15:23:50 <flo> poorly? Not at all? :-D
15:24:04 <clokep_work> Don't we use plugins.* for our libpurple prefs? I thought I just copied those. :(
15:24:11 <flo> I suspect libpurple just sends whatever the user typed, and lets the server truncate
15:24:18 <clokep_work> Probably.
15:24:19 <flo> we use purple.*
15:24:26 <clokep_work> Bah, I must have misread.
15:24:29 <flo> I renamed it to chat.irc.defaultQuitMessage
15:24:33 <clokep_work> OK! :)
15:24:36 <clokep_work> Thanks for finding that
15:24:42 <clokep_work> I'll be back in a bit.
15:24:55 <flo> I still have some reading material in your files ;)
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15:57:02 <clokep_work> It's a good epic. :)
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16:05:27 <flo>     // Where to obtain a copy of a client.
16:05:27 <flo>     "SOURCE": function(aMessage) false,
16:05:28 <flo> Is this used in the wild? Should it give a download link? ;)
16:05:54 <clokep_work> It's "Deprecated" according to one spec.
16:06:01 <clokep_work> But I think that /that/ spec isn't used in the wild.
16:06:15 <clokep_work> And it doesn't hurt to implement random things that are deprecated but easy to do. :-D
16:06:31 <clokep_work> I think there's stipulations about what kind of download link haha.
16:06:31 <flo> if nobody's going to use them, it's not really useful
16:06:36 <clokep_work> Right.
16:06:41 <clokep_work> I have no idea if it's used or not.
16:06:48 * flo assumes no
16:06:50 <clokep_work> I have a feeling people now use Google. :P
16:06:57 <flo> oh really?
16:12:47 <clokep_work> Yes. :)
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16:15:32 <clokep_work> I hope nothing else has been too crazy though.
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16:21:42 <flo> hmm, is there a difference between parseInt(string) and new Number(string)?
16:33:34 <clokep_work> I'm not sure.
16:33:38 <clokep_work> Probably not.
16:33:49 <clokep_work> One guarantees an integer maybe?
16:33:50 * flo hopes Mook will know
16:36:13 <flo> so "CHARSET" is considered obsolete by the RFC? :-S
16:36:24 <clokep_work> Link?
16:36:38 <flo> your comment in ircISUPPORT.jsm
16:38:08 <clokep_work> Let me re-read the spec.
16:38:16 <clokep_work> Btw I have the URLs of the specs at the top of all the files. :)
16:40:06 <clokep_work> Yeah, I'm not sure what it looks like even.
16:40:55 <clokep_work> (That file is based off the brocklesby RFC btw.)
16:41:20 <flo> <font> tags? yikes!
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16:44:46 <flo> I'm not sure I really want to do the effort of fully understanding the code in mIRCColoring. It seems neither interesting nor dangerous.
16:48:54 <clokep_work> It's stupid.
16:49:02 <clokep_work> That's my final word on that.
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20:51:29 <aleth> Something wrong with the linux buildbot?
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20:53:40 <clokep_work> Looks like it's having trouble pulling?
20:54:00 <aleth> The log just says "connection abort"
20:54:01 <clokep_work> Mook_as: flo had a question for you. http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/120202/#m213
20:54:49 <Mook_as> I don't know of any differences between parseInt and the Number constructor, other than parseInt being able to take a radix (i.e. parseInt(str, 10)) which is often helpful
20:55:38 <Mook_as> clokep_work: throwing the jsm into komodo isn't helping you find syntax errors? :(
20:56:03 <Mook_as> (okay, so that's about the equivalent of throwing it at xpcshell...)
20:56:27 <clokep_work> Mook_as: Turned out not to be a syntax error. :(
20:56:34 <clokep_work> Was a poorly named pref.
20:56:37 <Mook_as> hah
20:56:46 <clokep_work> But Komodo can usually find my syntax errors, although I always forget there's a tab for it!
20:56:54 <clokep_work> (I just end up scrolling until I see red. ;))
20:57:08 <Mook_as> heh, I just use the icon in the status bar :)
20:57:20 <Mook_as> (the "is this file having errors at all" icon :D )
20:57:46 * clokep_work wonders where that is...
20:57:57 <EionRobb> does parseInt handle floats?
20:58:31 <Mook_as> it's at the bottom, next to the charset selector, near the right
20:59:10 <clokep_work> Mook_as: Ah, very nice. :) I don't think I ever looked at the status bar haha.
20:59:15 <clokep_work> EionRobb: I think so.
20:59:54 <Mook_as> well, parseFloat handles floats
21:00:15 <EionRobb> right ;)
21:00:15 <clokep_work> Right, but you could put a float into parseInt and it'll parse it into an int!
21:00:25 <clokep_work> (Which is what I'd expect with the name. :-D)
21:00:29 <EionRobb> but that's different to new Number()
21:00:33 <Mook_as> but he's right, Number probably is closer to parseFloat
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21:02:06 <clokep_work> new Number probably looks better.
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21:04:32 <flo> so do we expects numbers in ircISUPPORT.jsm to be ints or floats? ;)
21:04:49 <clokep_work> It's supposed to be seconds since the Unix epoch.
21:05:18 <Mook_as> this is IRC, so I'm going to go with "ancient Pacific island runes"
21:06:02 <flo> clokep_work: maxChannelLength maxKickLength and all that crap are expressed in seconds?
21:06:38 <aleth> Mook_as: Scandinavian island runes, more like
21:07:09 <flo> maybe Scandinavian seconds can be converted into character counts :)
21:09:04 <clokep_work> flo: haha, no. :P
21:09:11 <clokep_work> Those are expressed as integers though.
21:10:22 * flo will suggest parseInt then :-P
21:13:15 <clokep_work> :)
21:28:53 <flo> I'm going to finish my review pass tonight, but I would be surprised to see JS-IRC ready to land tomorrow :-S
21:31:00 <flo> clokep_work: have you really started working on JS-IRC in 2010?
21:31:13 <flo> (the license header in chat/protocols/irc/Makefile.in says 2010)
21:33:56 <flo> irc.js lists 2010 too. ircISUPPORT.jsm has no date at all(!)
21:36:25 <clokep_work> Yes, it was 2010.
21:36:27 <clokep_work> Two summers ago.
21:36:35 <clokep_work> ircISUPPORT is 2011.
21:36:40 <clokep_work> Not sure why it doesn't have a date.
21:37:06 <flo> it took me 2 years to review it? :O
21:37:23 <clokep_work> It took me a long time to get it into a state to do anything. :P
21:38:30 <flo> I somehow have a hard time believing the makefile dates from 2010
21:38:45 <clokep_work> Yeah, no that's wrong.
21:38:52 <flo> as it seemed it hasn't existed until you started attaching patches
21:40:03 <Tomek> Hi! :)
21:40:03 <Tomek> What is te desired behavior when closing MUC's? I guess to put it on hold, but when I close them when not connected (temporary connection glitch), it just gets closed :(
21:40:06 <Tomek> Is the parameter which determines hold/close current number of participants?
21:40:12 <clokep_work> flo: You coul dlook at commits in the experiments repo?
21:40:26 <flo> clokep_work: I was already doing that :-P
21:41:13 <flo> Tomek: it's if you can not receive messages by closing it.
21:41:26 <flo> a private conversation will reopen itself if the person talks to you again
21:41:30 <flo> so we close it
21:42:39 <flo> clokep_work: it's hard to follow as you moved things around in the repository several times
21:42:52 <flo> "16 months ago 	IRC-JavaScript -- Fix comments from flo " uh...
21:43:40 <flo> https://hg.instantbird.org/experiments/rev/601c101a4bd1 this seems like the first time you published something related
21:43:41 <Tomek> But when I want to keep track of any new messages and close it at the moment some connection difficulties appear, is is just closed. Tested on this IRC channel :-P Since tehere is no quick and easy way of putting on hold, I'm used to close MUCs when I actually want to hold them
21:43:45 <flo> so september 2010
21:44:17 <clokep_work> Yeah, I started on stuff a bit earlier then that. But I think that's the first time I had something reasonable.
21:44:21 <flo> Tomek: we've been discussing making the Escape key put on hold the current conversation. Would that help?
21:44:37 <flo> clokep_work: the commit message says "IRC-JavaScript import from my local repository "
21:44:45 <clokep_work> Yes.
21:45:10 <flo> clokep_work: but I think when you started isn't really relevant for the copyright, and that what matters is the first time it's been publicly available under this license
21:45:17 <flo> the makefile is 2012?
21:45:27 <clokep_work> Right, which is still 2010. :)
21:45:29 <Tomek> flo: I saw that discussion, I was thinking about possibilities and I guess Esc is better to minimize it...
21:45:31 <clokep_work> Makefile is 2011.
21:45:50 <clokep_work> I think the only files that are 2012 are the test files?
21:46:03 <clokep_work> But we don't put licenses on those.
21:46:16 <flo> you can if you want
21:46:29 <flo> sometimes they are also explicitly put in the public domain
21:46:40 <clokep_work> Yeah, I can add that if we wish.
21:47:26 <Tomek> flo: I'd prefer something like second little button next to the close one, with down arrow or something like that, but it could look silly
21:47:27 <aleth> Tomek: Would a fix to bug 958 take care of your problem?
21:47:30 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=958 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Show last messages (history) in new chat windows
21:48:38 <Tomek> aleth: not completely, as I said, I put for example this IRC on hold by closing it, so I could see if something new happens
21:48:42 <-- flo has quit (Ping timeout)
21:48:53 <Tomek> still, that bug woul be great so see fixed :)
21:48:54 <clokep_work> And I'd be surprised for it to land tomorrow too flo. :) But it'd be exciting!
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21:49:28 <aleth> Tomek: If you had that, and auto-rejoin on reconnect, would that do it?
21:49:52 <clokep_work> Don't we have auto-rejoin on reconnect?
21:49:59 <clokep_work> At least of things in your auto-join list, right?
21:50:14 <flo> clokep_work: that's auto-join on connect
21:50:28 <clokep_work> Right.
21:50:32 <flo> we don't rejoin channels that weren't in the auto-join list
21:50:46 <clokep_work> Ah, OK.
21:50:49 <clokep_work> Be nice if we could. :)
21:50:53 <flo> clokep_work: JS-IRC somehow does it half-way. (it removes the "left" icon, but doesn't actually rejoin :-P)
21:51:13 <clokep_work> I don't think it's supposed to rejoin!
21:51:22 <Tomek> aleth: I currently use auto join, but what I mean is I want to keep track on new messages, but I'm used to put it on hold by closing it, context menu is a bit silly for frequent usage
21:51:35 <flo> I'm sure producing broken conversations isn't the behavior you intended :)
21:51:58 <clokep_work> No, most certainly not. :)
21:52:04 * flo wants the escape key to put on hold
21:52:15 * clokep_work wants a rocket ship.
21:52:23 <flo> I'm still not decided on if I create an add-on for that, or make it the default behavior
21:52:52 <Mook_as> compromise, put it in a pref
21:53:17 <Mook_as> though I admit the concept of a rocket ship add-on sounds intriguing
21:53:22 <Tomek> what would happen if I close IRC channel where I am currently alone, but I expect more people to come?
21:53:36 <flo> we could put a hidden pref for the behavior of closing a tab with the [X] (as people seem to disagree on the expected behavior)
21:53:46 <flo> Mook_as: isn't it jetpack-based?
21:54:18 <flo> Tomek: whether you are alone or not isn't relevant for this algorithm.
21:54:35 <flo> (although it could make sense!)
21:55:27 <Tomek> it was the first thing that came up to my mind when I noticed that upleasant behaviour when closind while disconnected
21:55:55 <aleth> Tomek: If the chat is in your auto-join list, it will automatically come back as soon as you reconnect. So if you had history displayed on rejoin, you wouldn't notice much difference to put-on-hold.
21:55:58 <Tomek> (sorry for long sentences, we use them usually in our language :-D )
21:55:58 <-- chrisccoulson has quit (Ping timeout)
21:56:28 <flo> Tomek: what's your language? :)
21:56:35 <Tomek> it didnt as far as I remember..
21:56:39 <Tomek> flo: Czech
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21:57:02 <flo> do you use the localized release, or nightlies?
21:57:15 <Tomek> localized 1.1
21:57:56 <flo> ok :)
21:57:56 <Tomek> I just sometimes try nightly on linux (flash "Live CD") to see what is new
21:58:03 <clokep_work> Bye! :)
21:58:08 <-- clokep_work has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
21:58:42 <aleth> Tomek: 1.2 might make you happier when it is ready ;)
21:59:17 <Tomek> well I will try to reproduce the "not reconnected" by unplugging my cable and closing this IRC, then I'll tell you what happened
21:59:33 <Tomek> BRB
21:59:37 <flo> the same. What you described it's the expected behavior
21:59:44 <flo> (expected = as implemented)
22:00:59 --> Tomek1 has joined #instantbird
22:01:03 <flo> my question about what you are using was just out of curiosity. I don't think we have many users of localized releases here, as people who hang here tend to be able to understand english + be interested in new stuff
22:01:13 <-- Tomek has quit (Ping timeout)
22:01:25 <Tomek1> nice, it really got reopened
22:01:41 <flo> ah, you added it as auto-joined?
22:02:11 <Tomek1> sure, with autojoin -> hold extension
22:02:34 <flo> my "hide autojoins" add-on?
22:02:40 <Tomek1> but still, it could suprise someone who us used to put MUCs on hold by closing them
22:02:48 <Tomek1> yes I think :)
22:04:03 <flo> it's all too complicated :(
22:04:05 <Tomek1> My opinion is MUCs like IRC should be put on hold always, or there should be easy way of doing it manually
22:04:13 <flo> I think we should eventually get rid of the "auto-join" concept
22:04:19 <Tomek1> instead of closing
22:04:33 <Tomek1> flo: why?
22:04:43 <flo> just rejoin all the channels where the user was after a reconnect or restart. Closing a channel then means the user no longer wants to be there
22:04:45 <aleth> It seems to boil down to auto-rejoin aka account-specific session restore 
22:05:17 <flo> and when using the join dialog, we need a completion for already joined in the past channels, so that no longer being in a room doesn't mean risking to forget the name.
22:05:19 <aleth> flo: I think that's a good idea.
22:05:54 <Tomek1> ok, that would maybe mean re-opening any chat windows?
22:07:40 <flo> I'm not sure of what we would do after a restart if the account isn't connected
22:08:45 <Tomek1> would be nice :) After starting IB I often open some frequently used chats and hold them to see if the user is currently online
22:09:06 <Tomek1> to see -> to keep track on
22:09:15 <aleth> buddy pounce would help...
22:09:16 <flo> really?
22:09:40 <flo> why don't you just put a tag on all these interesting contacts, so that they all appear at the same place in the contact list?
22:10:09 <aleth> flo: I think he means MUC participants not normal buddies
22:10:10 <Tomek1> I also have a group of contacts calld just "." so it is at the begining of contact list, where I have such contacs... :-D
22:10:37 <Tomek1> aleth: no, normal ICQ&FB buddies
22:11:46 <Tomek1> but when I have a chat opened, it kin of logs the online/offline state for me, so I can see whether my friend has been here today and I can expect him to come online again
22:11:51 <flo> aleth: we don't fetch the status of MUC participants if they aren't also in the contact list
22:12:10 <Tomek1> kind of logs*
22:12:37 <flo> I would like that information to be displayed in a graphical form in the contact tooltips
22:12:48 <flo> (as we do log all connect/disconnect events of all contacts)
22:15:23 <aleth> "Last seen on..." would do
22:16:39 <Tomek1> aleth: just what I would expect :)
22:17:26 <aleth> Tomek1: you could file a bug and ask for the feature ;) 
22:17:37 <aleth> Then you get notified if it is added
22:18:30 <aleth> flo: ooh, are you thinking of a sparkline?
22:18:31 <Tomek1> oh, why the hell am I called Tomek1 here? XD
22:19:02 <Tomek1> I dont remember adding the 1 and dont know why should I do that
22:19:12 <aleth> Because you rejoined before the server noticed you left
22:19:27 <flo> aleth: what do you call a sparkline?
22:19:30 <Tomek1> anyway, I will file it:)
22:19:47 <aleth> flo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparkline
22:19:53 <Tomek1> could I ask for something more? 
22:20:22 <Tomek1> are you planning enhancing other default message themes in a way time bubbles are?
22:20:34 <aleth> flo: or the source http://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0001OR&topic_id=1
22:20:58 <Tomek1> i like the idea of time bubbles very much, but I am literally addicted to the Dark theme in yellow variant :-D
22:22:05 <Tomek1> I couldn't live with lightly colored theme anyway
22:22:44 <Tomek1> (and I'm looking forward to some dark skin too!)
22:23:01 <Tomek1> asking too much at one moment, right?
22:23:48 <flo> so do you like the dark theme, or its colors?
22:24:24 <Tomek1> the theme, but its visual side is best for me in the yellow
22:24:25 <flo> and what are the improvements you like in Bubbles that you would like to see in Dark?
22:24:46 <Tomek1> the time gaps notofication management
22:25:15 <aleth> Tomek1: So you are asking for something like "Bubbles-Dark"?
22:25:19 <flo> aren't all messages always touching each other in Dark?
22:25:27 <Tomek1> inserting gaps sized logarithmically by time
22:25:38 <Tomek1> they are currently
22:26:11 <Tomek1> not sure how it would look, but the gap must not have just the plain dark background...
22:27:24 <flo> so what would you put there instead of the dark background?
22:27:33 <Tomek1> and also the feature in nightlies, which distinguish between new and old messages when reopened from hold
22:28:02 <Tomek1> dont know, just guessing what to do if the dark gaps would look bad
22:28:39 <flo> aleth: has a patch for that (distinguishing old messages)
22:28:51 <Tomek1> anyway, my main question was: are you planning to implement that?
22:28:58 <flo> no
22:29:06 <flo> but it would be a nice enhancement
22:29:15 <flo> and we would accept it if someone does it :)
22:29:32 <Tomek1> dont look at me :-D
22:29:40 <flo> well, the "no" was only replying to "am I planning to implement that?", I'm not speaking for everybody here ;)
22:29:54 <flo> Tomek1: I look at you to file a bug! :-P
22:30:06 <Tomek1> I will!
22:31:00 <flo> collapsing consecutive system messages would also be very useful in Dark if one intends to make it usable
22:32:17 <flo> and if someone could get rid of the crappy JS animation to fade in and out the hovered system messages and reimplement it with a CSS transition, that would also be very nice
22:32:30 <flo> (that last point is probably quite easy)
22:32:53 <Tomek1> oh, I noticed one more thing...
22:33:11 <aleth> shades of Columbo...
22:33:49 <flo> timestamps could also be displayed like they are in timebubbles when messages are hovered
22:34:23 <Tomek1> when an URL appeares in chat, i hower it and click it, the tooltip (or how to call it) showing the time when the message was sent stays on top of other windows (the browser)... untill I point on it
22:34:38 <Tomek1> but it may be platform specific
22:35:38 <flo> are you on Linux?
22:35:46 <Tomek1> no, Vista
22:35:52 <Tomek1> may I test on linux?
22:36:09 <flo> I was just asking because you said you were testing linux nightlies :-D
22:37:19 <Tomek1> anyway, I WILL test it on nightly right now :)
22:46:00 --> tomek_nightly has joined #instantbird
22:47:08 <tomek_nightly> www.instantbird.org (jut for test purposes...)
22:48:06 <tomek_nightly> good, it disappears on click, as i guessed what will happen
22:50:43 <flo> does it consistently not disappear on 1.1/Vista, or does it just happens "sometimes"?
22:51:16 <Tomek1> consistently
22:51:42 <flo> (by the way, I think displaying the time tooltips when hovering a link is wrong an annoying, so if someone proposed a technically-correct patch to get rid of the tooltip in that case (even before the click) I would gladly accept it)
22:51:54 <Tomek1> even if it douesnt appear right after click, it shows up again after browser goes forward...
22:52:45 <aleth> Yes, I always wondered what that was good for
22:52:52 <Tomek1> that would be good way to go, and also nice workaround for this annoying problem
22:53:19 <aleth> Tomek1: Do you see the problem with other tooltips too?
22:53:34 <Tomek1> you mean from other aplications?
22:53:44 <aleth> No, in IB
22:54:09 <Tomek1> I dont remember any
22:54:27 <Tomek1> they just disappear as they should
22:55:20 <Tomek1> jast came up to my mind to ry if it stays when alt-tab
22:55:32 <Tomek1> but it disappears right when alt is pressed :)
22:56:36 <aleth> Anyway, filing a bug would be helpful so these things don't get forgotten :)
22:56:56 <Tomek1> i have no other idea how to switch to other window without mouse moving fom the message, I suspected from begining it is just some windows related problem that it handles tooltips incorretly
22:57:40 <Tomek1> ok, I'll file it in a way "not show tooltip with time when howering link"
22:57:50 <-- tomek_nightly has quit (Ping timeout)
23:04:03 <Tomek1> what if doubleclick on tab with conversation would hold it? (I guess always show tab bar is default...) or could it confuse some users that thair conversation would disappear? (or make addon for it :-P)
23:04:48 <flo> add-on!
23:06:35 <-- Mnyromyr has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [SeaMonkey 1.1.19/2010030105])
23:09:31 <Tomek1> what does it mean when an offline-contact-like grey circle appears in the corner of icon of IRC channel?
23:09:54 <flo> that you aren't in that channel
23:10:09 <Tomek1> I was joined to #firefox, I reported some bug earlier today
23:10:21 <flo> either your account is disconnected, or you have left the channel (or your account got disconnected and reconnecter, but it's not an auto-joined channel)
23:10:47 <flo> another way to answer is: it means it won't be put on hold if you close the tab ;)
23:11:19 <Tomek1> ah-ha! I disconnected the cable to test the reconnect! :-D
23:11:33 <flo> bah, I'm too lazy to buy my train ticket and prepare my suitcase this evening, I'll have to handle that tomorrow morning :-D
23:12:13 <Tomek1> but still it is strange, I closed just IB IRC, and I dont see any reason why the firefox one was not reconnected once still present
23:14:06 <Tomek1> (I dont have FF IRC channel in auto joins) ...but I would expect it to reconnect, not sure what happened anyway
23:14:59 <flo> " I would expect it to reconnect" it's not the implemented behavior
23:16:20 <aleth> Only autojoined channels reconnect\
23:17:10 <Tomek1> yes, but it wasnt manual disconnect
23:17:23 <Tomek1> it was unplugging the cable, simulating connection problem
23:18:20 <Tomek1> so I would expect ALL previously connected channels to reconnect after my connection comes back up
23:18:27 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1256 filed by aletheia2@fastmail.fm.
23:18:28 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 1151 on bug 1256.
23:18:29 <aleth> Tomek1: file another bug ;)
23:18:29 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1256 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Remove timestamp tooltip from URLs
23:18:42 <Tomek1> needs further testing i think...
23:18:46 <aleth> For the reconnection behaviour you would like, I mean
23:20:05 <flo> Tomek1: manual or accidental disconnect doesn't make any difference
23:20:16 <Tomek1> ok, 4 bugs to do :-D but I'm too exhausted to do that now
23:20:20 <flo> only auto-joined channels are joined when the connection process finishes
23:20:48 <flo> by the way, anybody here coming to FOSDEM that I should try to meet? :)
23:20:50 <Tomek1> by manual I mean the offline state in contact window
23:21:02 <flo> Tomek1: it doesn't matter! :-P
23:21:17 <Tomek1> really?
23:21:21 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm cancelled review?(florian@instantbird .org) for attachment 1151 on bug 1256.
23:21:22 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 1152 on bug 1256.
23:21:25 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1256 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Remove timestamp tooltip from URLs
23:21:58 <flo> Tomek1: how many times do we need to tell you that only auto-joined channels are rejoined after a reconnect?
23:22:00 <Tomek1> hmm so I'm deleting one item from my to-report textfile
23:22:29 <Tomek1> I understand, bud still... not what I would expect
23:22:57 <flo> Tomek1: we agree it's not the ideal behavior
23:23:14 <flo> but we know it's how it's currently implemented, so no additional testing is needed/useful ;)
23:23:34 <flo> aleth: wouldn't that patch prevent valid tooltips too?
23:23:52 <aleth> flo: Only if they have a href attribute
23:23:53 <Tomek1> ok, by the testing i meant just making myself better understand the mechanism :)
23:23:57 <flo> it there's a <a href="foo" title="bar"> we still want to show "bar" in the tooltip
23:24:01 <aleth> Are there such?
23:24:32 <aleth> Ah. Does that happen in twitter or where?
23:24:59 <flo> aleth: yes, on all twitter usernames (@mentions)
23:26:05 <flo> what you probably want to do is return instead of continuing the loop with the parent element for links
23:26:15 <aleth> Yes
23:26:35 <aleth> Just moving the if clause should do.
23:26:53 <flo> likely
23:27:00 <flo> I don't have enough context in the diff to see :)
23:27:53 <flo> I won't bother r-ing as I would be likely be middle-airing you attaching another iteration of the same patch ;)
23:27:56 <flo> Good night
23:28:00 <Tomek1> so the current situation abou reporting what I wanted is:
23:28:00 <Tomek1> [_]"time  others" than time bubbles
23:28:00 <Tomek1> [X]do not show tooltip with time when howering link (already reported by Aleth)
23:28:00 <Tomek1> [_]contact tooltip containning "last seen" timestamp
23:28:00 <Tomek1> [_]not reconnecting IRC after unplugging cable (if it is not in auto joins)
23:28:00 <Tomek1> I will file the others unless anyone else wants to do it... if you do, just tell me, so I dont make a duplicate
23:28:18 <aleth> No, go ahead
23:28:28 <Tomek1> GN flo
23:28:37 <aleth> Good night :)
23:28:40 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre)
23:29:16 <Tomek1> ok than.. I will interfere with your debate again when some new ideas come up to my mind :)
23:30:27 <Tomek1> which means I will still be looking here to see whast goning on though
23:31:28 <Tomek1> those problems i discussed were being harvested for over a month, I just didnt have time to do more than to write them down in todo list
23:35:32 <aleth> Thanks for reporting these issues! :)
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23:40:29 <Tomek1> I have one more idea, but flo is not here...
23:40:44 <Tomek1> to be able to add IRC (and other similar) as contacts, connect on open/disconnect on close (still can put on hold)
23:40:55 <Tomek1> IRC channels*
23:41:34 <Tomek1> will report as well :)
23:41:40 <aleth> I think there's already a bug for that, you could add your ideas to it
23:41:56 <Tomek1> ok, searching...
23:43:01 <Tomek1> it's a preatty old one! Bug 232
23:43:05 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=232 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Can't add IRC channels to the buddy list
23:43:12 <aleth> Yes.
23:46:10 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm cancelled review?(florian@instantbird .org) for attachment 1152 on bug 1256.
23:46:11 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 1153 on bug 1256.
23:46:12 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1256 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Remove timestamp tooltip from URLs
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23:50:37 * ChanServ sets mode +o clokep 
23:51:47 <Tomek1> so good night, will report those issues in few days when tired of studying ;-)
23:52:39 <-- Tomek1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1)
23:57:39 <-- Mautematico has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre)
23:59:32 <clokep> Yes, we don't want conversations in the contact list.