#instantbird log on 01 18 2012

All times are UTC.

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00:37:25 <clokep> flo: Yes you can get kicked for causing the server to tie up a lot of resources in sending you all the results of the list command.
00:37:38 <clokep> You'd think they juts wouldn't respond or something though...but IRC is dumb.
00:38:04 <clokep> I don't like the part command that way it is now. I'd rather it just be: /part [message] and you can't part multiple rooms at once.
00:40:11 <clokep> Segaja: Mibbit implements IRC server side in a different language. It's not JS (it's also not open source AFAIK).
00:41:30 <clokep> I looked at ChatZilla, JISIRC and jsircbot and a  couple of others. They all do things in weird ways / have stupid dependencies / have really bad frame workks.
00:41:38 <clokep> (And ChatZilla is just old. ;))
00:42:24 <clokep> aleth: flo, the icon missing is a unity thing. My friend has had it. I think we have a bug on file.
00:42:40 <clokep> It's not just a missing file, it's something more complicated, but I don't know what.
00:42:42 <Mook_as> IRC is also just old. it predates sane handing of character sets!
00:43:08 <clokep> Mook_as: I know. It's almost older than me. ;)
00:43:42 <Mook_as> well, ruby doesn't predate sane handling of character sets, so it doesn't have to be _that_ old... :p
00:43:58 <clokep> Ah, actually it might predate me, was created in the same year. :P
00:44:12 <clokep> Oooooo no, I beat it by two months.
00:44:24 <Mook_as> ooh, that means I can try to figure out how old you are! (but I'm too lazy to do so.)
00:44:54 <douglaswth> ha, sane handling of character sets
00:46:20 <clokep> :P It involves only one hit on WP, but it'll be blacked out soon. =-o
01:01:08 <clokep> flo: I would push back against some of those comments about the terminology we use on your patch. :)
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01:05:39 <Digitalsabre> So now that I have the message log theme, the important question I haven't found the answer to on Google or on the Instantbird website is… HOW DO I INSTALL IT?
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01:06:10 <clokep> Digitalsabre: The same way you'd install a Firefox or Thunderbird extension.
01:06:13 <clokep> Tools > Addons
01:06:27 <clokep> Drag & drop or click the little gear "Install from file"
01:06:50 <Digitalsabre> You mean I can't, as I do with Firefox or Thunderbird, right click on it, choose "Open With" and pick Instantbird?
01:07:06 <clokep> You should be able to do that too, but I've never done that with any of the above apps.
01:08:30 <Digitalsabre> Well, maybe you should be able to do it, but it doesn't work.
01:08:50 <clokep> : shrugs : file a bug please.
01:09:01 <clokep> Easy enough to do it through the add-ons manager though. :)
01:10:26 <Digitalsabre> I'm just saying… it wasn't all that obvious.
01:10:48 <douglaswth> I just tried to do "Open With" on an xpi with Thunderbird and it attached it to an email
01:11:08 <Digitalsabre> Maybe it only works with Firefox...
01:11:47 <Digitalsabre> That's strange, though.
01:13:06 <clokep> Yeah, there's some issues with it, but we unfortunately haven't had time to put cycles against it and we haven't had many people ask about it.
01:13:11 <clokep> (I think you're the first or second.)
01:13:22 <clokep> Eventually it'll be nicer I'm sure. :)
01:14:14 <Digitalsabre> Is there a way to bookmark XMPP chats? :D
01:15:03 <Digitalsabre> Or have them auto-open at startup? :)
01:16:50 <clokep> Uhhh...I have a couple that do...I don't remember how to.
01:16:51 <clokep> One second.
01:17:13 <clokep> When you join you can tick off the option to auto-join.
01:17:36 <clokep> Or you can type the names into the auto-join list in the account properties.
01:20:22 <Digitalsabre> Well, that was useless.  The chat name is Holodeck!BluePaw@channels.crypticspace.com, but I just typed in BluePaw and so it didn't work.
01:20:28 <Digitalsabre> It was a Duh moment.
01:20:55 <clokep> Hah, yeah, it's the full chat name, usually easier to use the join chat menu. :)
01:22:27 <Digitalsabre> I guess I won't find a chat client that supports full-window skinning.  I was hoping to design a really nice self-expanding LCARS buddy list and matching chat window + message log theme.
01:23:25 <Mook_as> hmm, you should be able to; might need to do it in two parts (message log theme, and application theme), though.
01:23:40 <Digitalsabre> Is there an app theme?
01:24:00 <Mook_as> it's a xul application, it has to ;)
01:24:03 <clokep> Yes, of course. Just like Thunderbird/Firefox, the entire UI can be themed.
01:24:12 <Digitalsabre> <3
01:24:51 <Digitalsabre> I think Instantbird is the EXACT XMPP client I've been looking for.
01:25:19 <clokep> I hope so! If you find issues, please file them (after searching) at bugzilla.instantbird.org
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01:25:34 <clokep> (Plus, as a bonus, it does more than XMPP. ;))
01:25:50 <Digitalsabre> It fulfills all the requirements.  XMPP, English Internationalization, Groupchat support, Autojoin Support, fully themeable...
01:26:21 <clokep> Ah, you have small requirements compared to many people! :-)
01:26:48 <clokep> How'd you come across Instantbird, if I may ask?
01:27:09 <clokep> aleth: By the way, the new contact list looks really awesome. I'm very used to using it now to see who's available.
01:27:13 <Digitalsabre> XMPP.org
01:27:25 <clokep> (And by contact list I mean participants list.)
01:27:29 <clokep> Ah, good thing we got it listed there! :)
01:28:14 <Digitalsabre> I learned early on that if there's a standard, there's a website for the standard and the standards body often has lists of organizations and/or developers who adhere.
01:28:42 <Digitalsabre> That… might not sound as promising as it should.
01:29:16 <clokep> Hahah, I've found that most standars are rarely followed. :( XMPP MOSTLY is it seems.
01:29:20 <clokep> Except by the likes of Google/Facebook.
01:36:06 <Digitalsabre> Where can I find information about creating interface themes, contact list themes and chat themes for IB?
01:37:45 <Digitalsabre> Or, perhaps (even better, maybe) examples that can be dissected?
01:48:39 <clokep> Digitalsabre: Examples would be on addons.instantbird.com
01:49:06 <clokep> Message styles documentation: Instantbird:Message Styles
01:49:13 <clokep> Oops, I meant https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Message_Styles
01:49:21 <clokep> And there's no such thing as a "contact list theme".
01:49:29 <clokep> It's part of the overall interface.
01:49:39 <Digitalsabre> That might make it easier.
01:51:51 <Digitalsabre> How much of the theming agent is Gecko?
01:52:08 <clokep> What do you mean?
01:52:28 <Digitalsabre> Is it all parsed HTML and CSS?
01:53:03 <clokep> Message styles are HTML/CSS/JavaScript/anything that Firefox would understand as a webpage.
01:53:08 <clokep> Interface is XUL/CSS.
01:53:12 <clokep> (Just like Firefox.)
01:53:54 <Digitalsabre> Gecko is the rendering engine behind Firefox, right?  Does Gecko also parse XUL or is that a whole different technology?
02:03:18 <Digitalsabre> Is there a jar file somewhere containing the default theme? :)
02:03:34 <clokep> Digitalsabre: It parses XUL too.
02:03:45 <clokep> Uhhh...it must be inside the omni.jar somewhere. :-D
02:03:56 <clokep> The code is online though.... lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content I think.
02:28:46 <clokep> Thanks for the review flo.
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03:10:01 <instant-buildbot> build #360 of macosx-nightly-default started, including []
03:10:01 <instant-buildbot> build #454 of win32-nightly-default started, including []
03:10:01 <instant-buildbot> build #369 of linux-nightly-default started, including []
03:10:51 <clokep> Hmmm....we never took care of the issue with last night's nightly, right?
03:17:13 <Mook> I seem to still be on the 14th, and it claims no updates
03:17:48 <clokep> Mook: That's because libpurple was broken in last night's. ;) We shut the update off.
03:18:08 <Mook> I'm just giving you information on "no, indeed, I see no nightly" :)
03:18:23 <clokep> That's good! :) Shutting it off worked. :P
03:18:32 <clokep> But flo mentioned something about checking a fix in this afternoon.
03:19:27 <Mook> hmm. more notes on my ever-expanding-and-things-eventually-fall-off to-do list: simple automated testing for ib that can happen as a buildbot step before nightlies get posted
03:19:50 <Mook> (this will probably never actually happen, since I probably won't have the sort of free time to do it. but on the list it goes!)
03:20:55 <clokep> Mook: We have a simple test that sees if libpurple can initialize. :) But I don't think buildbot runs it. The issue was with sockets though.
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03:40:42 <instant-buildbot> build #369 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/369
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04:30:57 <deOmega1> Isn't this a mistake on this site:   https://wiki.instantbird.org/Files_used_by_Instantbird_in_message_styles
04:31:37 <deOmega1> Outgoing/Content.html 	Incoming/Content.html 	Used for outgoing messages. 
04:32:25 <instant-buildbot> build #454 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Failure [failed compile]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/454
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06:53:15 <instant-buildbot> build #360 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/360
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10:27:06 <flo> deOmega1: that doesn't look like a mistake. What seems strange to you in that line? The second column is what will be used in the file named in the first column doesn't exist. In this specific case, it means that if there's no specific HTML for outgoing message, they will use the same HTML as incoming messages.
10:27:35 <flo> clokep: I forgot to push something yesterday evening for the libpurple socket brokenness. For once I'm glad the Windows nightly failed today :).
10:28:36 <flo> Mook: we have an automated test (that we don't run) to check that libpurple can be initialized. This specific case of brokenness is a bit more tricky though as to detect it we would need to actually connect an account using the network.
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10:53:43 <instant-buildbot> build #211 of linux-onCommit started, including [41ba4fa613a16c065346cf56783f8bfe40e8a773]
10:53:44 <instant-buildbot> build #201 of win32-onCommit started, including [41ba4fa613a16c065346cf56783f8bfe40e8a773]
10:59:04 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/41ba4fa613a1 - Florian Quèze - Revert the changes from 118139b13a08 (which was causing a serious regression) and use a different fix for the errno constant redefinitions when building with MSVC10.
11:02:55 <instant-buildbot> build #211 of linux-onCommit is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-onCommit/builds/211
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12:00:23 <instant-buildbot> build #201 of win32-onCommit is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-onCommit/builds/201
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12:58:23 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1239 filed by kemza@seznam.cz.
12:58:26 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1239 maj, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, When contact have diacritical mark as first letter, contact are not shown
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13:07:17 <deOmega1> flo:  thank you.  My problem there is that I lost sight of it being the fall-back.   Thank you
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13:15:37 <clokep_work> deOmega1: Does that mean you're making progress on updating/creating a theme? :)
13:16:41 <deOmega1> I am making progress, yes.   
13:17:11 <deOmega1> It is truly a whole new world, but I thik  I will get there.. at least I will get an understanding fo some sort
13:17:57 <deOmega1> what is difficult is that  it seems like no two themes are laid out alike because these things allowpeople to basically build in their own style.. or rather, code in their own style
13:18:05 <deOmega1> (I guess code is the word)
13:19:15 <clokep_work> Yeah, it can be pretty difficult to read other's codes.
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13:41:23 <flo> I wonder if bug 1239 could be a dupe of bug 1178
13:41:26 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1239 maj, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, When contact have diacritical mark as first letter, contact are not shown
13:41:27 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1178 maj, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Regression: renamed contacts disappear from list
13:41:54 <flo> (that would assume the special letter comes from an alias set by the user himself and that he hasn't restarted since setting the alias of course)
13:42:12 <clokep_work> I was wondering that as well.
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15:09:36 <Mic> Hi
15:10:31 <clokep_work> Hello Mic.
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15:18:32 <ecaron> If I'm signed into Google Talk via instantbird, and someone sends me an invitation to chat, what should happen?
15:20:08 <ecaron> Because it appears to be swallowing the invites and I can't get them back unless the user sends it again.
15:20:19 <ecaron> I can do a live demo of the problem if anyone wants to see.
15:20:34 <clokep_work> I didn't think we supported any UI for invites, but I'm not sure. flo would know better.
15:21:06 <ecaron> I didn't think there was support for it either, which I assumed meant it'd be left available in the web interface
15:21:21 <flo> if by "invitation to chat" you mean someone added you to their contact list, then in 1.1, it's supposed to work (it's handled by libpurple and should be displayed as a popup dialog about the contact list)
15:21:33 <ecaron> If I'm signed in on instantbird and the web interface, you'll see the invite flicker quick on the web interface and disappear.
15:21:34 <flo> on current nightlies JS-XMPP doesn't support invitations yet
15:22:10 <flo> if it's an invitation for some kind of Gtalk-specific multi-user chats, we don't support that
15:22:12 <ecaron> i'm running vanilla 1.1
15:22:30 <ecaron> nope, plain orgniary gtalk invite
15:22:49 * ecaron meant ordinary
15:23:07 <flo> that should work. (I'm not too surprised that it doesn't though as I remember some people vaguely complaining about this topic :()
15:23:09 <ecaron> its a Google Apps account, not ordinary GMail
15:23:35 <ecaron> Anything I can do/capture now to help make a useful bug?
15:24:43 <flo> I'm afraid at this point the only useful thing to do would be having someone implement adding contacts (and receiving invitation) for JS-XMPP as the spec describes, then test with gtalk that it actually work.
15:25:42 <flo> if I have a JS string and a byte offset for something inside that string, how can I know where that thing is in my string?
15:26:12 * clokep_work vaguely assumes indexOf won't work?
15:26:35 <flo> clokep_work: I already have the index
15:26:47 <ecaron> Am I wrong in thinking that Instantbird taking the request and doing nothing with it is a bad thing?
15:26:51 <flo> the problem is I have it in the form of a byte offset, not a character index
15:27:27 <ecaron> I was pretty excited about switching the whole company from Pidgin to Instantbird (I talk about it a lot) and now I can't. Which I understand is a typically whiny complaint everyone gives.
15:27:30 <clokep_work> ecaron: No. It should do something with it. I mean you can look in the error console, etc. see if there's something related.
15:27:48 <clokep_work> If not, make sure to file a bug so we don't lose track of it. :)
15:28:12 <flo> ecaron: it's certainly bad. Handling of invitation has been generally bad for several releases already. It's a bit new that people have issues with gtalk though (with MSN it was very common, to the point that I can't remember the last time adding an MSN contact actually worked as expected)
15:28:51 <clokep_work> flo: getCharAt?
15:29:15 <clokep_work> Or rather "charCodeAt" :)
15:29:18 <clokep_work> For JavaScript syntax hah.
15:29:40 <flo> it's among those things that we keep thinking "needs to be seriously improved/tested/fixed" but it's pretty boring (and once you have all the people you talk with frequently already added in your list, it doesn't really matter) so it keeps being postponed :(
15:29:55 <flo> clokep_work: and then, what am I going to do with that char code?
15:30:03 <ecaron> clokep: Can you help me with the bug? I feel like it is going to get spiked because I don't know how to capture useful data for it.
15:30:53 <clokep_work> Well it's on my to do list to fix it in JS-XMPP. :)
15:31:00 <clokep_work> But I can send you a request, etc. if you'd like.
15:31:05 <flo> clokep_work: really? that's great new! :)
15:31:26 <clokep_work> My to do list is long though. :(
15:31:58 <ecaron> No message shows up in the console
15:32:05 <ecaron> Does anyone want to see it?
15:32:18 <flo> see the message that doesn't show up? :-S
15:32:44 <ecaron> You can see it flicker in the Chrome chat window
15:33:35 * clokep_work isn't on Instantbird right now (Just gmail)
15:35:47 <clokep_work> ecaron: File a bug please, CC me on it and then bug me when I'm not _work. :)
15:39:48 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1240 filed by eric.caron@gmail.com.
15:39:51 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1240 maj, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Invites from Google Talk (in Google App account) are lost by Instantbird
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15:42:03 <clokep_work> Thanks ecaron. :) I'll look into it when I'm home (I have a few gmail accounts, so not an issue.)
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16:09:54 <clokep_work> I hate when people change the subject to emails every time I email them...makes it really hard to have a full conversation.
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16:21:20 <Mitch> clokep_work: Hi. Looks like https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=531 relates to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=621198. Unfortunately those patches are probably decrepit.
16:21:24 <instantbot> Bug 531 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Cross program syncing (e.g. Instantbird / Thunderbird sharing account information)
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16:24:21 <clokep_work> Mitch: OK...I'd think bug 492 relates to it more.
16:24:24 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=492 enh, --, ---, nobody, ASSI, Adapt Firefox Sync for Instantbird
16:24:32 <clokep_work> There's a lot of ways that Instantbird/Thunderbird could communicate, doesn't have to be through sync.
16:28:10 <flo> these days it seems they can communicate through code repositories and bug trackers ;)
16:30:10 <Mitch> Do an email plugin for Instantbird then Thunderbird can mail it. :D
16:31:38 * Mitch wonders what other things that aren't IM could be represented as such
16:31:45 <flo> Mitch: you may not have the background for my last "private" joke. I'm currently working on IM in Thunderbird (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=714733 https://wiki.mozilla.org/Features/Thunderbird/Instant_messaging_in_Thunderbird)
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16:32:48 <Mitch> Wow and damn you've left.
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16:56:07 <clokep_work> Probably about time for him to go home Mitch.
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20:46:22 <Mic> BMO sucks again :(
20:48:09 <flo> Mic: it's being ddos'ed...
20:52:25 <aleth> Hi Mic! Have you had a change to look at bug 1234? It seems (at least) flo and I agree that some of your Easy Scrolling behaviour should be in IB per default :)
20:52:28 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1234 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Improve keyboard navigation
20:53:23 <aleth> s/change/chance
20:53:44 <Mic> Yes, I saw it. And I hope flo/others are giving the add-on a try to see for themselves how well that works :)
20:54:07 <flo> Mic: I have a good touch pad, I never navigate with the keyboard.
20:54:09 <Mic> If someone's using gestures to navigate it's pretty useless ofcourse
20:54:44 <flo> Mic: so my agreement with aleth on this is on the basis of "it makes sense", not of "I tried and like it" ;)
20:54:47 <clokep_work> I have a trackpoint, I never navigate with the keyboard. ;)
20:54:57 <Mic> So it's "someone else's problem" for you? ;)
20:55:08 <aleth> Being able e.g. to use "Home" to section scroll is kind of equivalent to the gesture on the touchpad in that you don't have to think about it, it just works
20:55:10 <flo> Mic: I'll review the patch
20:55:15 <flo> definitely not write it
20:56:12 <Mic> Iirc you singled out some of the keys mentioned there .. I assumed you had a reason. So that was unintentional then?
20:57:09 <aleth> Mic: I understood his "cursor keys" comment to be generic for navigation keys
20:57:31 <aleth> I tried to list them in my original comment, hopefully I didn't forget any
20:57:46 <Mic> OK, my mistake then.
20:58:22 <aleth> Anyway, would you like to submit something based on the code of your add-on as a patch? :)
20:58:59 <flo> the keyboard shortcut I would be interested in are Escape to put on hold, and Command+shift+H to show the logs of the current conversation
20:59:17 <flo> (also Command+shift+J to show the error console *in Thunderbird*, but that's off-topic here :))
20:59:23 <aleth> "Yes please" to those
20:59:40 <aleth> But they are not navigation keys ;)
20:59:45 <Mic> What about Ctrl or Command+H for the logs?
20:59:52 <Mic> Like for the history in Firefox?
21:00:04 <Mic> (That's the key on Windows systems, at least)
21:00:09 <Mic> *shortcut
21:00:16 <aleth> Mic: That's even better, but I think Macs need an exception
21:00:29 <Mic> Yes, I heard something about a system shortcut ..
21:02:35 <Mook_as> yeah, hide this application :| (and cmd+shift+h is "hide everything else", IIRC)
21:03:05 <Mook_as> ah, no, hide everything else is cmd+alt+h
21:03:25 <Mic> I wouldn't like if Esc made my window go away by the way. I usually reserve one window for 'active' conversations (they deserve the space in the taskbar) and hide everything else in the held-list (things that I'm just interested in and will read only sometimes).
21:04:00 <Mic> I guess an add-on could do that in worst case.
21:04:06 * clokep_work does the same.
21:04:16 <aleth> I think the proposal is for Esc to only put the current tab on hold? Maybe I misunderstood
21:04:21 <clokep_work> I just don't minimize windows. ;)
21:06:24 <flo> Mook_as: "hide everything else" is "Alt+command+H", not shift :)
21:06:35 <Mook_as> yeah, read one more line ;)
21:06:36 <flo> bah, I should just read the scrollback fully before commenting :(
21:07:12 <aleth> flo: what's the key combination for "history" on OSX Firefox? It's an excellent suggestion that IB should simply follow that precedent
21:07:15 <Mic> aleth: I can't promise to do that in the near future
21:07:37 <flo> aleth: yes, Escape would be for the current tab
21:07:57 <flo> aleth: there's no show history shortcut on Mac Firefox
21:08:02 <Mic> flo: why is ctrl+w not good enough for that?
21:08:12 <flo> Mic: it closes the conversation
21:08:31 <Mic> ah, great. I had to try that with a MUC of course :D
21:08:43 <flo> I see escape as meaning "whatever that is, please don't annoy me with it now"
21:08:50 <aleth> Mic: Good point. Ctrl+W should do the same as "close tab" really, and it doesn't. Isn't that a bug?
21:08:54 <Mic> We should sort out the mess with the different ways to close a conversation/putting it on hold/closing its tag ...
21:08:58 <flo> aleth: it does
21:09:14 <Mic> *tab
21:09:34 <flo> what's messy about it?
21:09:44 <Mic> Especially the "close tab" with the different behaviours depending on the context
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21:10:21 <flo> I just get infuriated every time a keyboard shortcut accidentally minimizes one of my windows (minimized windows aren't really usable on Mac, nor are they needed)
21:10:54 <aleth> flo: Right, so it does. So Mic it's more that closing a chat tab puts it on hold, and closing a conversation tab closes the conversation?
21:10:55 <Mook_as> firefox shows history sidebar with cmd+shift+h though?
21:11:10 <flo> that is escape on Instantbird just after I've used it to close the account manager
21:11:13 <flo> and Ctrl+Z on emacs
21:11:22 <flo> Mook_as: right :)
21:11:27 <Mic> flo: we could turn that off for Macs?
21:11:37 <-- Even has quit (Input/output error)
21:11:46 <Mic> Maybe it's as easy as an ifdef?
21:12:03 <flo> Mic: from my point of view the right thing to do is "put on hold"
21:12:08 <flo> escape doing nothing would be as annoying
21:12:20 <aleth> Esc for minimize is highly nonstandard anyway
21:12:28 <flo> yeah
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21:13:56 <Mic> Esc for minimizing has the advantage that you actually see what happens (you get an animation that shows where the window went to on Windows at least)
21:14:05 <Mic> -Esc for 
21:14:44 <flo> that's a good point
21:15:05 <flo> (that animation is part of what annoys me on Mac by the way :))
21:16:13 <aleth> Actually thinking about it more I think I'm agnostic on what Esc should do. But I'd like an add-on at least to put conversations on hold when tabs are closed...
21:22:42 <Mic> Good evening
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22:51:47 <Draighth> Hey guys
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23:08:13 <flo> isn't "hey guys" when entering a channel a bit sexist? How can he know instantbot is a guy?
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23:09:48 <EionRobb> that's why he left
23:09:53 <EionRobb> s/he/they/
23:09:56 * Mook_as blame English
23:10:11 <Mook_as> it lacks good gender-neutral words
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