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00:19:27 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 00:19:28 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 00:37:25 <clokep> flo: Yes you can get kicked for causing the server to tie up a lot of resources in sending you all the results of the list command. 00:37:38 <clokep> You'd think they juts wouldn't respond or something though...but IRC is dumb. 00:38:04 <clokep> I don't like the part command that way it is now. I'd rather it just be: /part [message] and you can't part multiple rooms at once. 00:40:11 <clokep> Segaja: Mibbit implements IRC server side in a different language. It's not JS (it's also not open source AFAIK). 00:41:30 <clokep> I looked at ChatZilla, JISIRC and jsircbot and a couple of others. They all do things in weird ways / have stupid dependencies / have really bad frame workks. 00:41:38 <clokep> (And ChatZilla is just old. ;)) 00:42:24 <clokep> aleth: flo, the icon missing is a unity thing. My friend has had it. I think we have a bug on file. 00:42:40 <clokep> It's not just a missing file, it's something more complicated, but I don't know what. 00:42:42 <Mook_as> IRC is also just old. it predates sane handing of character sets! 00:43:08 <clokep> Mook_as: I know. It's almost older than me. ;) 00:43:42 <Mook_as> well, ruby doesn't predate sane handling of character sets, so it doesn't have to be _that_ old... :p 00:43:58 <clokep> Ah, actually it might predate me, was created in the same year. :P 00:44:12 <clokep> Oooooo no, I beat it by two months. 00:44:24 <Mook_as> ooh, that means I can try to figure out how old you are! (but I'm too lazy to do so.) 00:44:54 <douglaswth> ha, sane handling of character sets 00:46:20 <clokep> :P It involves only one hit on WP, but it'll be blacked out soon. =-o 01:01:08 <clokep> flo: I would push back against some of those comments about the terminology we use on your patch. :) 01:04:45 --> Digitalsabre has joined #instantbird 01:05:39 <Digitalsabre> So now that I have the message log theme, the important question I haven't found the answer to on Google or on the Instantbird website is⦠HOW DO I INSTALL IT? 01:06:03 <-- aleth has quit (Ping timeout) 01:06:10 <clokep> Digitalsabre: The same way you'd install a Firefox or Thunderbird extension. 01:06:13 <clokep> Tools > Addons 01:06:27 <clokep> Drag & drop or click the little gear "Install from file" 01:06:50 <Digitalsabre> You mean I can't, as I do with Firefox or Thunderbird, right click on it, choose "Open With" and pick Instantbird? 01:07:06 <clokep> You should be able to do that too, but I've never done that with any of the above apps. 01:08:30 <Digitalsabre> Well, maybe you should be able to do it, but it doesn't work. 01:08:50 <clokep> : shrugs : file a bug please. 01:09:01 <clokep> Easy enough to do it through the add-ons manager though. :) 01:10:26 <Digitalsabre> I'm just saying⦠it wasn't all that obvious. 01:10:48 <douglaswth> I just tried to do "Open With" on an xpi with Thunderbird and it attached it to an email 01:11:08 <Digitalsabre> Maybe it only works with Firefox... 01:11:47 <Digitalsabre> That's strange, though. 01:13:06 <clokep> Yeah, there's some issues with it, but we unfortunately haven't had time to put cycles against it and we haven't had many people ask about it. 01:13:11 <clokep> (I think you're the first or second.) 01:13:22 <clokep> Eventually it'll be nicer I'm sure. :) 01:14:14 <Digitalsabre> Is there a way to bookmark XMPP chats? :D 01:15:03 <Digitalsabre> Or have them auto-open at startup? :) 01:16:50 <clokep> Uhhh...I have a couple that do...I don't remember how to. 01:16:51 <clokep> One second. 01:17:13 <clokep> When you join you can tick off the option to auto-join. 01:17:36 <clokep> Or you can type the names into the auto-join list in the account properties. 01:20:22 <Digitalsabre> Well, that was useless. The chat name is Holodeck!BluePaw@channels.crypticspace.com, but I just typed in BluePaw and so it didn't work. 01:20:28 <Digitalsabre> It was a Duh moment. 01:20:55 <clokep> Hah, yeah, it's the full chat name, usually easier to use the join chat menu. :) 01:22:27 <Digitalsabre> I guess I won't find a chat client that supports full-window skinning. I was hoping to design a really nice self-expanding LCARS buddy list and matching chat window + message log theme. 01:23:25 <Mook_as> hmm, you should be able to; might need to do it in two parts (message log theme, and application theme), though. 01:23:40 <Digitalsabre> Is there an app theme? 01:24:00 <Mook_as> it's a xul application, it has to ;) 01:24:03 <clokep> Yes, of course. Just like Thunderbird/Firefox, the entire UI can be themed. 01:24:12 <Digitalsabre> <3 01:24:51 <Digitalsabre> I think Instantbird is the EXACT XMPP client I've been looking for. 01:25:19 <clokep> I hope so! If you find issues, please file them (after searching) at bugzilla.instantbird.org 01:25:29 <-- Mook_as has quit (Quit: gone) 01:25:34 <clokep> (Plus, as a bonus, it does more than XMPP. ;)) 01:25:50 <Digitalsabre> It fulfills all the requirements. XMPP, English Internationalization, Groupchat support, Autojoin Support, fully themeable... 01:26:21 <clokep> Ah, you have small requirements compared to many people! :-) 01:26:48 <clokep> How'd you come across Instantbird, if I may ask? 01:27:09 <clokep> aleth: By the way, the new contact list looks really awesome. I'm very used to using it now to see who's available. 01:27:13 <Digitalsabre> XMPP.org 01:27:25 <clokep> (And by contact list I mean participants list.) 01:27:29 <clokep> Ah, good thing we got it listed there! :) 01:28:14 <Digitalsabre> I learned early on that if there's a standard, there's a website for the standard and the standards body often has lists of organizations and/or developers who adhere. 01:28:42 <Digitalsabre> That⦠might not sound as promising as it should. 01:29:16 <clokep> Hahah, I've found that most standars are rarely followed. :( XMPP MOSTLY is it seems. 01:29:20 <clokep> Except by the likes of Google/Facebook. 01:36:06 <Digitalsabre> Where can I find information about creating interface themes, contact list themes and chat themes for IB? 01:37:45 <Digitalsabre> Or, perhaps (even better, maybe) examples that can be dissected? 01:48:39 <clokep> Digitalsabre: Examples would be on addons.instantbird.com 01:49:06 <clokep> Message styles documentation: Instantbird:Message Styles 01:49:13 <clokep> Oops, I meant https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Message_Styles 01:49:21 <clokep> And there's no such thing as a "contact list theme". 01:49:29 <clokep> It's part of the overall interface. 01:49:39 <Digitalsabre> That might make it easier. 01:51:51 <Digitalsabre> How much of the theming agent is Gecko? 01:52:08 <clokep> What do you mean? 01:52:28 <Digitalsabre> Is it all parsed HTML and CSS? 01:53:03 <clokep> Message styles are HTML/CSS/JavaScript/anything that Firefox would understand as a webpage. 01:53:08 <clokep> Interface is XUL/CSS. 01:53:12 <clokep> (Just like Firefox.) 01:53:54 <Digitalsabre> Gecko is the rendering engine behind Firefox, right? Does Gecko also parse XUL or is that a whole different technology? 02:03:18 <Digitalsabre> Is there a jar file somewhere containing the default theme? :) 02:03:34 <clokep> Digitalsabre: It parses XUL too. 02:03:45 <clokep> Uhhh...it must be inside the omni.jar somewhere. :-D 02:03:56 <clokep> The code is online though.... lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content I think. 02:28:46 <clokep> Thanks for the review flo. 03:03:19 --> Mook has joined #instantbird 03:10:01 <instant-buildbot> build #360 of macosx-nightly-default started, including [] 03:10:01 <instant-buildbot> build #454 of win32-nightly-default started, including [] 03:10:01 <instant-buildbot> build #369 of linux-nightly-default started, including [] 03:10:51 <clokep> Hmmm....we never took care of the issue with last night's nightly, right? 03:17:13 <Mook> I seem to still be on the 14th, and it claims no updates 03:17:48 <clokep> Mook: That's because libpurple was broken in last night's. ;) We shut the update off. 03:18:08 <Mook> I'm just giving you information on "no, indeed, I see no nightly" :) 03:18:23 <clokep> That's good! :) Shutting it off worked. :P 03:18:32 <clokep> But flo mentioned something about checking a fix in this afternoon. 03:19:27 <Mook> hmm. more notes on my ever-expanding-and-things-eventually-fall-off to-do list: simple automated testing for ib that can happen as a buildbot step before nightlies get posted 03:19:50 <Mook> (this will probably never actually happen, since I probably won't have the sort of free time to do it. but on the list it goes!) 03:20:55 <clokep> Mook: We have a simple test that sees if libpurple can initialize. :) But I don't think buildbot runs it. The issue was with sockets though. 03:32:07 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 03:40:42 <instant-buildbot> build #369 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/369 03:46:51 <-- Digitalsabre has quit (Quit: Leaving.) 03:53:24 --> Mautematico has joined #instantbird 04:08:10 <-- EionRobb has quit (Connection reset by peer) 04:09:07 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird 04:25:37 <-- Tomek has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1) 04:30:13 --> deOmega1 has joined #instantbird 04:30:57 <deOmega1> Isn't this a mistake on this site: https://wiki.instantbird.org/Files_used_by_Instantbird_in_message_styles 04:31:37 <deOmega1> Outgoing/Content.html Incoming/Content.html Used for outgoing messages. 04:32:25 <instant-buildbot> build #454 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Failure [failed compile] Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/454 04:32:54 <-- deOmega1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 05:12:48 <-- EionRobb has quit (Connection reset by peer) 05:13:03 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird 05:13:20 <-- EionRobb has quit (Connection reset by peer) 05:14:44 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird 05:15:24 <-- EionRobb has quit (Connection reset by peer) 05:15:55 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird 05:16:19 <-- EionRobb has quit (Connection reset by peer) 05:18:45 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird 05:22:46 <-- Mautematico has quit (Ping timeout) 05:29:26 --> Mautematico has joined #instantbird 05:34:52 <-- EionRobb has quit (Connection reset by peer) 05:35:10 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird 05:35:48 <-- EionRobb has quit (Connection reset by peer) 05:35:57 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird 05:37:05 <-- Mautematico has quit (Ping timeout) 05:39:45 <-- EionRobb has quit (Quit: Leaving.) 05:40:26 --> Mautematico has joined #instantbird 05:59:18 <-- Mautematico has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 06:05:48 <-- Mook has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-rdmsoft [XULRunner 6.0/20110811165603]) 06:53:15 <instant-buildbot> build #360 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/360 08:00:29 --> MadWookiee has joined #instantbird 09:04:44 <-- Even_ has quit (Quit: Quitte) 09:38:38 <-- gerard-majax has quit (Ping timeout) 09:45:59 --> chrisccoulson_ has joined #instantbird 09:47:04 <-- chrisccoulson has quit (Ping timeout) 09:54:59 --> mmkmou has joined #instantbird 09:55:09 <-- mmkmou has quit (Connection reset by peer) 09:55:22 --> mmkmou has joined #instantbird 10:01:18 * chrisccoulson_ is now known as chrisccoulson 10:05:50 --> jb has joined #instantbird 10:15:41 --> flo has joined #instantbird 10:15:41 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 10:27:06 <flo> deOmega1: that doesn't look like a mistake. What seems strange to you in that line? The second column is what will be used in the file named in the first column doesn't exist. In this specific case, it means that if there's no specific HTML for outgoing message, they will use the same HTML as incoming messages. 10:27:35 <flo> clokep: I forgot to push something yesterday evening for the libpurple socket brokenness. For once I'm glad the Windows nightly failed today :). 10:28:36 <flo> Mook: we have an automated test (that we don't run) to check that libpurple can be initialized. This specific case of brokenness is a bit more tricky though as to detect it we would need to actually connect an account using the network. 10:29:00 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird 10:31:50 <-- EionRobb has quit (Quit: Leaving.) 10:33:10 --> gerard-majax has joined #instantbird 10:53:43 <instant-buildbot> build #211 of linux-onCommit started, including [41ba4fa613a16c065346cf56783f8bfe40e8a773] 10:53:44 <instant-buildbot> build #201 of win32-onCommit started, including [41ba4fa613a16c065346cf56783f8bfe40e8a773] 10:59:04 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/41ba4fa613a1 - Florian Quèze - Revert the changes from 118139b13a08 (which was causing a serious regression) and use a different fix for the errno constant redefinitions when building with MSVC10. 11:02:55 <instant-buildbot> build #211 of linux-onCommit is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-onCommit/builds/211 11:16:41 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 11:16:41 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 11:53:47 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 12:00:23 <instant-buildbot> build #201 of win32-onCommit is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-onCommit/builds/201 12:11:19 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 12:11:19 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 12:33:24 --> Tobin has joined #instantbird 12:39:29 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 12:47:05 --> clokep_work has joined #instantbird 12:47:05 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep_work 12:50:00 <-- mmkmou has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 12:52:07 --> mmkmou has joined #instantbird 12:58:23 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1239 filed by kemza@seznam.cz. 12:58:26 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1239 maj, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, When contact have diacritical mark as first letter, contact are not shown 13:03:00 <-- gerard-majax has quit (Connection reset by peer) 13:03:02 --> gerard-majax_ has joined #instantbird 13:04:57 --> deOmega1 has joined #instantbird 13:07:17 <deOmega1> flo: thank you. My problem there is that I lost sight of it being the fall-back. Thank you 13:11:13 * gerard-majax_ is now known as gerard-majax 13:15:37 <clokep_work> deOmega1: Does that mean you're making progress on updating/creating a theme? :) 13:16:41 <deOmega1> I am making progress, yes. 13:17:11 <deOmega1> It is truly a whole new world, but I thik I will get there.. at least I will get an understanding fo some sort 13:17:57 <deOmega1> what is difficult is that it seems like no two themes are laid out alike because these things allowpeople to basically build in their own style.. or rather, code in their own style 13:18:05 <deOmega1> (I guess code is the word) 13:19:15 <clokep_work> Yeah, it can be pretty difficult to read other's codes. 13:35:16 <-- Tobin has quit (Quit: Tobin) 13:35:28 --> Tobin has joined #instantbird 13:41:23 <flo> I wonder if bug 1239 could be a dupe of bug 1178 13:41:26 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1239 maj, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, When contact have diacritical mark as first letter, contact are not shown 13:41:27 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1178 maj, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Regression: renamed contacts disappear from list 13:41:54 <flo> (that would assume the special letter comes from an alias set by the user himself and that he hasn't restarted since setting the alias of course) 13:42:12 <clokep_work> I was wondering that as well. 13:43:56 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 13:43:56 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 13:44:21 <-- deOmega1 has left #instantbird () 13:44:45 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 13:44:54 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 13:44:54 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 13:45:14 --> jb1 has joined #instantbird 13:45:54 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout) 13:46:54 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 14:41:34 <-- mmkmou has quit (Ping timeout) 14:41:45 --> mmkmou has joined #instantbird 14:47:37 <-- Tobin has quit (Quit: Tobin) 14:51:57 --> ecaron has joined #instantbird 15:09:31 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 15:09:31 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 15:09:36 <Mic> Hi 15:10:31 <clokep_work> Hello Mic. 15:16:26 <-- ecaron has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1) 15:17:07 --> ecaron has joined #instantbird 15:17:12 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 15:18:32 <ecaron> If I'm signed into Google Talk via instantbird, and someone sends me an invitation to chat, what should happen? 15:20:08 <ecaron> Because it appears to be swallowing the invites and I can't get them back unless the user sends it again. 15:20:19 <ecaron> I can do a live demo of the problem if anyone wants to see. 15:20:34 <clokep_work> I didn't think we supported any UI for invites, but I'm not sure. flo would know better. 15:21:06 <ecaron> I didn't think there was support for it either, which I assumed meant it'd be left available in the web interface 15:21:21 <flo> if by "invitation to chat" you mean someone added you to their contact list, then in 1.1, it's supposed to work (it's handled by libpurple and should be displayed as a popup dialog about the contact list) 15:21:33 <ecaron> If I'm signed in on instantbird and the web interface, you'll see the invite flicker quick on the web interface and disappear. 15:21:34 <flo> on current nightlies JS-XMPP doesn't support invitations yet 15:22:10 <flo> if it's an invitation for some kind of Gtalk-specific multi-user chats, we don't support that 15:22:12 <ecaron> i'm running vanilla 1.1 15:22:30 <ecaron> nope, plain orgniary gtalk invite 15:22:49 * ecaron meant ordinary 15:23:07 <flo> that should work. (I'm not too surprised that it doesn't though as I remember some people vaguely complaining about this topic :() 15:23:09 <ecaron> its a Google Apps account, not ordinary GMail 15:23:35 <ecaron> Anything I can do/capture now to help make a useful bug? 15:24:43 <flo> I'm afraid at this point the only useful thing to do would be having someone implement adding contacts (and receiving invitation) for JS-XMPP as the spec describes, then test with gtalk that it actually work. 15:25:42 <flo> if I have a JS string and a byte offset for something inside that string, how can I know where that thing is in my string? 15:26:12 * clokep_work vaguely assumes indexOf won't work? 15:26:35 <flo> clokep_work: I already have the index 15:26:47 <ecaron> Am I wrong in thinking that Instantbird taking the request and doing nothing with it is a bad thing? 15:26:51 <flo> the problem is I have it in the form of a byte offset, not a character index 15:27:27 <ecaron> I was pretty excited about switching the whole company from Pidgin to Instantbird (I talk about it a lot) and now I can't. Which I understand is a typically whiny complaint everyone gives. 15:27:30 <clokep_work> ecaron: No. It should do something with it. I mean you can look in the error console, etc. see if there's something related. 15:27:48 <clokep_work> If not, make sure to file a bug so we don't lose track of it. :) 15:28:12 <flo> ecaron: it's certainly bad. Handling of invitation has been generally bad for several releases already. It's a bit new that people have issues with gtalk though (with MSN it was very common, to the point that I can't remember the last time adding an MSN contact actually worked as expected) 15:28:51 <clokep_work> flo: getCharAt? 15:29:15 <clokep_work> Or rather "charCodeAt" :) 15:29:18 <clokep_work> For JavaScript syntax hah. 15:29:40 <flo> it's among those things that we keep thinking "needs to be seriously improved/tested/fixed" but it's pretty boring (and once you have all the people you talk with frequently already added in your list, it doesn't really matter) so it keeps being postponed :( 15:29:55 <flo> clokep_work: and then, what am I going to do with that char code? 15:30:03 <ecaron> clokep: Can you help me with the bug? I feel like it is going to get spiked because I don't know how to capture useful data for it. 15:30:53 <clokep_work> Well it's on my to do list to fix it in JS-XMPP. :) 15:31:00 <clokep_work> But I can send you a request, etc. if you'd like. 15:31:05 <flo> clokep_work: really? that's great new! :) 15:31:26 <clokep_work> My to do list is long though. :( 15:31:58 <ecaron> No message shows up in the console 15:32:05 <ecaron> Does anyone want to see it? 15:32:18 <flo> see the message that doesn't show up? :-S 15:32:44 <ecaron> You can see it flicker in the Chrome chat window 15:33:35 * clokep_work isn't on Instantbird right now (Just gmail) 15:35:47 <clokep_work> ecaron: File a bug please, CC me on it and then bug me when I'm not _work. :) 15:39:48 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1240 filed by eric.caron@gmail.com. 15:39:51 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1240 maj, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Invites from Google Talk (in Google App account) are lost by Instantbird 15:40:07 --> Tobin has joined #instantbird 15:42:03 <clokep_work> Thanks ecaron. :) I'll look into it when I'm home (I have a few gmail accounts, so not an issue.) 15:58:20 <-- Tobin has quit (Quit: Tobin) 15:58:28 --> Tobin has joined #instantbird 16:07:35 --> Mitch has joined #instantbird 16:09:45 <-- ecaron has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1) 16:09:54 <clokep_work> I hate when people change the subject to emails every time I email them...makes it really hard to have a full conversation. 16:10:14 --> ecaron has joined #instantbird 16:21:20 <Mitch> clokep_work: Hi. Looks like https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=531 relates to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=621198. Unfortunately those patches are probably decrepit. 16:21:24 <instantbot> Bug 531 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Cross program syncing (e.g. Instantbird / Thunderbird sharing account information) 16:21:30 <-- Tobin has quit (Quit: Tobin) 16:21:52 --> Tobin has joined #instantbird 16:24:21 <clokep_work> Mitch: OK...I'd think bug 492 relates to it more. 16:24:24 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=492 enh, --, ---, nobody, ASSI, Adapt Firefox Sync for Instantbird 16:24:32 <clokep_work> There's a lot of ways that Instantbird/Thunderbird could communicate, doesn't have to be through sync. 16:28:10 <flo> these days it seems they can communicate through code repositories and bug trackers ;) 16:30:10 <Mitch> Do an email plugin for Instantbird then Thunderbird can mail it. :D 16:31:38 * Mitch wonders what other things that aren't IM could be represented as such 16:31:45 <flo> Mitch: you may not have the background for my last "private" joke. I'm currently working on IM in Thunderbird (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=714733 https://wiki.mozilla.org/Features/Thunderbird/Instant_messaging_in_Thunderbird) 16:32:01 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 16:32:48 <Mitch> Wow and damn you've left. 16:36:15 --> Tomek has joined #instantbird 16:38:24 <-- wesj has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 16:38:28 --> wesj has joined #instantbird 16:56:07 <clokep_work> Probably about time for him to go home Mitch. 18:06:05 <-- gerard-majax has quit (Ping timeout) 18:23:54 <-- jb1 has quit (Ping timeout) 18:46:50 --> jb has joined #instantbird 18:48:50 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout) 18:50:12 --> gerard-majax has joined #instantbird 18:57:46 --> igorko has joined #instantbird 19:15:52 <-- mmkmou has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 19:21:49 <-- MadWookiee has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1) 19:22:47 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 19:26:27 --> Mook_as has joined #instantbird 19:32:58 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 19:33:07 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 19:36:26 --> EionRobb has joined #instantbird 19:48:24 <-- Tomek has quit (Connection reset by peer) 19:48:30 --> Tomek has joined #instantbird 19:50:30 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 19:50:31 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 20:03:59 --> chrisccoulson_ has joined #instantbird 20:04:04 <-- chrisccoulson has quit (Ping timeout) 20:04:13 <-- igorko has quit (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) 20:04:34 <-- chrisccoulson_ has quit (Connection reset by peer) 20:10:03 --> chrisccoulson has joined #instantbird 20:20:01 --> flo has joined #instantbird 20:20:02 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 20:24:53 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 20:25:16 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 20:40:00 --> jb has joined #instantbird 20:46:22 <Mic> BMO sucks again :( 20:48:09 <flo> Mic: it's being ddos'ed... 20:52:25 <aleth> Hi Mic! Have you had a change to look at bug 1234? It seems (at least) flo and I agree that some of your Easy Scrolling behaviour should be in IB per default :) 20:52:28 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1234 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Improve keyboard navigation 20:53:23 <aleth> s/change/chance 20:53:44 <Mic> Yes, I saw it. And I hope flo/others are giving the add-on a try to see for themselves how well that works :) 20:54:07 <flo> Mic: I have a good touch pad, I never navigate with the keyboard. 20:54:09 <Mic> If someone's using gestures to navigate it's pretty useless ofcourse 20:54:44 <flo> Mic: so my agreement with aleth on this is on the basis of "it makes sense", not of "I tried and like it" ;) 20:54:47 <clokep_work> I have a trackpoint, I never navigate with the keyboard. ;) 20:54:57 <Mic> So it's "someone else's problem" for you? ;) 20:55:08 <aleth> Being able e.g. to use "Home" to section scroll is kind of equivalent to the gesture on the touchpad in that you don't have to think about it, it just works 20:55:10 <flo> Mic: I'll review the patch 20:55:15 <flo> definitely not write it 20:56:12 <Mic> Iirc you singled out some of the keys mentioned there .. I assumed you had a reason. So that was unintentional then? 20:57:09 <aleth> Mic: I understood his "cursor keys" comment to be generic for navigation keys 20:57:31 <aleth> I tried to list them in my original comment, hopefully I didn't forget any 20:57:46 <Mic> OK, my mistake then. 20:58:22 <aleth> Anyway, would you like to submit something based on the code of your add-on as a patch? :) 20:58:59 <flo> the keyboard shortcut I would be interested in are Escape to put on hold, and Command+shift+H to show the logs of the current conversation 20:59:17 <flo> (also Command+shift+J to show the error console *in Thunderbird*, but that's off-topic here :)) 20:59:23 <aleth> "Yes please" to those 20:59:40 <aleth> But they are not navigation keys ;) 20:59:45 <Mic> What about Ctrl or Command+H for the logs? 20:59:52 <Mic> Like for the history in Firefox? 21:00:04 <Mic> (That's the key on Windows systems, at least) 21:00:09 <Mic> *shortcut 21:00:16 <aleth> Mic: That's even better, but I think Macs need an exception 21:00:29 <Mic> Yes, I heard something about a system shortcut .. 21:02:35 <Mook_as> yeah, hide this application :| (and cmd+shift+h is "hide everything else", IIRC) 21:03:05 <Mook_as> ah, no, hide everything else is cmd+alt+h 21:03:25 <Mic> I wouldn't like if Esc made my window go away by the way. I usually reserve one window for 'active' conversations (they deserve the space in the taskbar) and hide everything else in the held-list (things that I'm just interested in and will read only sometimes). 21:04:00 <Mic> I guess an add-on could do that in worst case. 21:04:06 * clokep_work does the same. 21:04:16 <aleth> I think the proposal is for Esc to only put the current tab on hold? Maybe I misunderstood 21:04:21 <clokep_work> I just don't minimize windows. ;) 21:06:24 <flo> Mook_as: "hide everything else" is "Alt+command+H", not shift :) 21:06:35 <Mook_as> yeah, read one more line ;) 21:06:36 <flo> bah, I should just read the scrollback fully before commenting :( 21:07:12 <aleth> flo: what's the key combination for "history" on OSX Firefox? It's an excellent suggestion that IB should simply follow that precedent 21:07:15 <Mic> aleth: I can't promise to do that in the near future 21:07:37 <flo> aleth: yes, Escape would be for the current tab 21:07:57 <flo> aleth: there's no show history shortcut on Mac Firefox 21:08:02 <Mic> flo: why is ctrl+w not good enough for that? 21:08:12 <flo> Mic: it closes the conversation 21:08:31 <Mic> ah, great. I had to try that with a MUC of course :D 21:08:43 <flo> I see escape as meaning "whatever that is, please don't annoy me with it now" 21:08:50 <aleth> Mic: Good point. Ctrl+W should do the same as "close tab" really, and it doesn't. Isn't that a bug? 21:08:54 <Mic> We should sort out the mess with the different ways to close a conversation/putting it on hold/closing its tag ... 21:08:58 <flo> aleth: it does 21:09:14 <Mic> *tab 21:09:34 <flo> what's messy about it? 21:09:44 <Mic> Especially the "close tab" with the different behaviours depending on the context 21:10:01 <-- clokep_work has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 21:10:21 <flo> I just get infuriated every time a keyboard shortcut accidentally minimizes one of my windows (minimized windows aren't really usable on Mac, nor are they needed) 21:10:54 <aleth> flo: Right, so it does. So Mic it's more that closing a chat tab puts it on hold, and closing a conversation tab closes the conversation? 21:10:55 <Mook_as> firefox shows history sidebar with cmd+shift+h though? 21:11:10 <flo> that is escape on Instantbird just after I've used it to close the account manager 21:11:13 <flo> and Ctrl+Z on emacs 21:11:22 <flo> Mook_as: right :) 21:11:27 <Mic> flo: we could turn that off for Macs? 21:11:37 <-- Even has quit (Input/output error) 21:11:46 <Mic> Maybe it's as easy as an ifdef? 21:12:03 <flo> Mic: from my point of view the right thing to do is "put on hold" 21:12:08 <flo> escape doing nothing would be as annoying 21:12:20 <aleth> Esc for minimize is highly nonstandard anyway 21:12:28 <flo> yeah 21:13:06 --> Even has joined #instantbird 21:13:06 * ChanServ sets mode +o Even 21:13:56 <Mic> Esc for minimizing has the advantage that you actually see what happens (you get an animation that shows where the window went to on Windows at least) 21:14:05 <Mic> -Esc for 21:14:44 <flo> that's a good point 21:15:05 <flo> (that animation is part of what annoys me on Mac by the way :)) 21:16:13 <aleth> Actually thinking about it more I think I'm agnostic on what Esc should do. But I'd like an add-on at least to put conversations on hold when tabs are closed... 21:22:42 <Mic> Good evening 21:23:50 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 21:33:21 --> harlock has joined #instantbird 21:41:43 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout) 21:51:07 --> Mnyromyr has joined #instantbird 21:52:20 --> Draighth has joined #instantbird 21:55:05 --> go8765 has joined #instantbird 22:05:05 <-- Draighth has quit (Quit: Leaving.) 22:08:21 --> Draighth has joined #instantbird 22:22:06 --> adev has joined #instantbird 22:27:37 <-- Mnyromyr has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [SeaMonkey 1.1.19/2010030105]) 22:30:56 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 22:30:56 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 22:31:48 --> jb has joined #instantbird 22:48:09 <-- adev has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 22:50:04 <-- harlock has quit (Ping timeout) 22:50:44 --> harlock has joined #instantbird 22:51:47 <Draighth> Hey guys 23:01:45 <-- Draighth has left #instantbird () 23:08:13 <flo> isn't "hey guys" when entering a channel a bit sexist? How can he know instantbot is a guy? 23:09:29 --> adev has joined #instantbird 23:09:48 <EionRobb> that's why he left 23:09:53 <EionRobb> s/he/they/ 23:09:56 * Mook_as blame English 23:10:11 <Mook_as> it lacks good gender-neutral words 23:17:48 <-- aleth has left #instantbird () 23:18:02 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 23:18:41 <-- adev has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 23:18:50 <-- harlock has quit (Quit: Baibai) 23:23:02 --> adev has joined #instantbird 23:24:40 <-- adev has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 23:28:48 --> adev has joined #instantbird 23:30:53 <-- go8765 has quit (Quit: go8765) 23:42:00 <-- adev has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 23:47:08 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout)