#instantbird log on 01 09 2012

All times are UTC.

00:00:03 <clokep> Oh.
00:00:06 <clokep> Well...probably not anymore.
00:00:15 <clokep> The file was created a long long time ago...but I think all the code from 2 years ago was moved out.
00:00:39 <clokep> And yes, there should be. I don't know Mook's prefered email for that stuff. :)
00:01:01 <flo> find his BIO id?
00:01:07 <flo> (or wait for him to reply)
00:01:22 <flo> did you mean to remove the libpurple irc l10n file?
00:01:24 <clokep> By searching M-C for Mook I think I just got like 40 different emails for him. ;)
00:02:12 <flo> and remove "irc" from the list of converted l10n files at http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/tools/l10n/convert-purple-po-files-to-properties-files.py#28
00:02:50 <flo> and I should really be asleep already, I've got to get up very early tomorrow; that will be difficult :-/
00:02:54 <flo> Good evening/night
00:02:57 <clokep> Goodnight!
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00:03:55 <clokep> I did mean to remove the libpurple irc l10n file yes. I made mine from scratch.
00:04:38 <Mook> clokep: yeah, bugmail should work there. or make one up for me, just stick something after the + :p
00:05:25 <Mook> looking into ircISUPPORT.jsm now... (it's just the spidermonkey shell, js.exe (or whatever for your platform), in -c mode)
00:05:44 <clokep> What is -c mode?
00:06:11 <Mook> compile only, don't run
00:06:24 <Mook> (and because of stupid js semicolon autoinsertion, that wasn't an error)
00:06:49 <clokep> I wasn't hoping it'd be a warning in strict mode or whatever. :(
00:06:57 <clokep> So the Linter in Komodo would just pick it up.
00:06:58 <Mook> oh, @mook.cx.cc is dead (the domain's gone)
00:07:01 <clokep> But none of them seem to.
00:07:09 <clokep> I used the gmail one. :)
00:07:14 <clokep> With +Instantbird.code
00:07:19 <Mook> have you seen the js brendan writes? he _likes_ automagic insertion :(
00:07:45 <clokep> No, I haven't. Well AFAIK I haven't at least.
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16:54:56 <clokep_work> Were we going to do a meeting today flo?
16:55:08 <flo> if we are at least two, we can :)
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17:05:52 <flo> clokep_work: so, do we have anything to discuss? :)
17:06:16 <clokep_work> I can just talk about my IRC stuff briefly if you'd like.
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17:06:48 <clokep_work> You've seen the patch (or part of it, obviously). I've spent some time reading over all of it and fixed little bits here and there, but it mostly seems "working".
17:06:52 <flo> we (Even and I) have spent a lot of time during the week-end to upgrade buildbot.
17:07:08 <flo> Even has made great progress on making pymake work for us.
17:07:30 <clokep_work> I also added the "Handlers" for IRC, CTCP, DCC and ISUPPORT, which is everything that (I know of that) has a command like syntax.
17:07:36 <clokep_work> Awesome! Thanks a lot Even. :)
17:07:45 <clokep_work> I've been using pymake on one of my trees for a week now?
17:07:49 <flo> and I'm spending my time on Thunderbird stuff (mostly Gloda integration these days).
17:09:09 <flo> clokep_work: it's the make distribute step that doesn't work yet. Especially the parts related to symbols and automatic updates.
17:09:32 <flo> building a local build with pymake should just work I think
17:09:35 <clokep_work> Ah, the parts I don't worry about. :-D
17:10:08 <flo> clokep_work: but if we don't fix them, I'm sure some people will complain about their new nightly not coming ;)
17:10:43 <clokep_work> For IRC, I need to make sure the commands all do what I expect and that they actually match the syntax (which was stolen from libpurple).  I might simplify some of these syntaxes though as some are overly complicated IMO.
17:11:04 <clokep_work> (I also might severely cut down the number of commands in the initial version.)
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17:11:22 <flo> sounds good
17:11:31 <flo> do you intend to write xpcshell tests for these commands?
17:11:37 <flo> that would be great :m)
17:11:38 <flo> *:)
17:11:44 <clokep_work> I think it would be a good idea to. I keep breaking them. :-(
17:12:04 <flo> for tests to become useful, we also need to find a way to actually run them
17:12:18 <clokep_work> You mean on buildbot?
17:12:21 * flo wonders if that works with pymake
17:12:52 <flo> yes, I had buildbot in mind, but more generally, any automated way to be notified asap when something breaks
17:13:09 <clokep_work> (For reference, I was running them with |mozmake -C objdir/chat/protocols/irc/test xpcshell-tests|, where mozmake is the |MOZCONFIG=.... make|)
17:15:13 <flo> |mozmake -C objdir xpcshell-tests| does this run all the tests at once?
17:15:37 <flo> we probably don't want to spend time on our buildbot slaves running the toolkit's tests
17:15:53 <flo> anyway, details that can be easily figured out / fixed if/when needed
17:16:21 <clokep_work> I don't know. I did try mozmake -C objdir/chat and that DID NOT run all the chat ones, (which would be just my IRC ones)
17:16:27 <clokep_work> I didn't wnat to attempt running all the Moz ones haha.
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17:17:08 <clokep_work> Besides that for IRC...I found a reference for CTCP SED! (Where "reference" is the code to the EPIC IRC client...) So I implemented the basic SED (not the one using blowfish or aes256, etc.)
17:17:36 <flo> I don't remember what that SED thing is for
17:17:49 <clokep_work> "Simple Encryption D...???"
17:18:23 <clokep_work> It does some simple encryption with a keyword. It's really silly, but I was curious about it.
17:18:37 <clokep_work> It's not in the code I gave you though. I have it as a separate module. :)
17:18:52 <clokep_work> Is Thunderbird still targetting 12?
17:18:55 <clokep_work> For chat features.
17:19:23 <flo> does that change anything for us?
17:19:40 <flo> (which release IM in Tb will target)
17:21:36 <flo> have you tried the try server build? (I don't remember who sent me screenshots of it :-D)
17:23:28 <clokep_work> Mic sent the screenshot.
17:23:31 <clokep_work> I tried briefly.
17:23:50 <clokep_work> Was fancy. :-D
17:24:04 <clokep_work> (I was wondering if we wanted to match up Gecko versions.)
17:25:04 <flo> so, what are our plan for the next release?
17:25:33 <clokep_work> I figured it'd be the same time as Gecko 12, if not later.
17:25:55 <clokep_work> But that was just my initial thought on the subject. (We might need some cycles against fixing the l10n infrastructure. :-/)
17:26:29 <aleth> Heh, I thought the Hide Auto-Join bug would be something more subtle, because it broke only recently and the bug 759 reorg seemed to have happened a long time ago. Thanks for taking a look clokep!
17:26:34 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759 min, --, ---, florian, RESO FIXED, Reorganize purplexpcom
17:26:36 <clokep_work> Bah I have to run actually, 12:30 meeting. :(
17:26:51 <flo> fixing the l10n crap is just a matter of doing it (mostly deciding how we are going to handle the mess we made with QQ)
17:26:55 <clokep_work> aleth: You're welcome. :) Thanks for filing it so I actually looked at it.
17:27:30 <flo> clokep_work: I thought we would release 1.2 based on Gecko 9
17:27:39 <flo> the end of january was the target
17:28:01 <flo> and it's the reason why we have moved from mozilla-beta to mozilla-release on buildbot again
17:28:23 <aleth> And then have 1.3 with JS-IRC and possibly JS-XMPP?
17:28:36 <aleth> Or already in 1.2
17:28:39 <flo> but I'm likely going to keep being very busy during the next few weeks (or months). Probably until at least a week or two after IM in Tb lands.
17:28:42 <aleth> (for the former)
17:28:56 <flo> JS-XMPP doesn't seem in a good shape to ship right now
17:29:47 <flo> I still have a dozen of items in the part of my todo list that's for the JS-XMPP project
17:30:34 <flo> are we interested in shipping 1.2 sooner without JS-XMPP, or should we just delay it significantly?
17:31:06 <flo> is anybody interested in finishing JS-XMPP "for me"? :)
17:31:24 <aleth> There already seem quite a few improvements/bugfixes compared to 1.1, but I don't know how much effort a release is
17:32:36 <aleth> I probably won't have much time at all the next month or two :(
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17:37:35 <flo> "I don't know how much effort a release is" it's too much.
17:38:04 <flo> and that's of course something we need to fix
17:39:34 <flo> there's probably no technical fix for that though
17:39:54 <flo> we tried in the past to automate as much as possible, but that doesn't work as the things we need to do keep changing
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17:40:27 <flo> the only way we can make releases less painful is distribute the tasks (especially the tasks that involved communicating / writing/sending messages) across more people
17:41:03 <aleth> You mean for a release-with-publicity like 1.0, or just generally with blogposts etc?
17:41:49 <flo> for having a clear communication with everybody involved (translators, release candidate testers, etc...)
17:44:21 <aleth> So what other big user-facing improvements could be coming up soonish that could be in 1.2 if it was postponed?  (Considering that at least initially the user doesn't "notice" e.g. IRC runs on JS)
17:44:25 <aleth> gloda/logs?
17:44:53 <flo> the JSON logs
17:45:01 <flo> the nicklist improvements
17:45:09 <aleth> Well those are already landed :)
17:45:13 <flo> no longer freezing when restoring a conversation
17:45:21 <flo> aleth: they haven't been released to users
17:45:27 <aleth> I meant: is there anything worth postponing 1.2 for
17:45:37 <flo> we can also make the nicklist fast, but I don't think people will notice anyway :)
17:46:13 <flo> if we postpone 1.2, we can have polished JS-XMPP and JS-IRC implementations
17:47:15 <aleth> Would it be a lot of work to have better log search in 1.2? (i.e. search across all logs for that conv partner, not just the selected one)
17:48:10 <flo> it's the point of indexing logs
17:48:17 <flo> (the work I'm doing for Thunderbird with gloda)
17:48:21 <flo> yes, it's a lot of work
17:48:22 <aleth> OK
17:48:31 <aleth> That's what I thought
17:48:44 <flo> well, if we want to do it correctly at least
17:48:53 <flo> if we accept to have something freezing the UI for a while, it's easier
17:49:34 <flo> (or just something not freezing, but running asynchronously with lots of disk accesses)
17:49:58 <aleth> But if you are starting on the gloda integration anyway...
17:53:59 <aleth> Anyway, imho the current nightly is already a lot nicer than 1.1!
17:55:13 <aleth>  What I meant with "user-facing" above is that the user only sees the benefits of JS-xxx when additional benefits land that are made possible by the JS foundation, not 'initially'. So from the user pov waiting with 1.2 for JS-xxx may not make that much sense unless one waits even longer for new features to land on top of them too?
17:59:13 <flo> there are little details that are better in JS-XMPP than on the libpurple implementations
17:59:23 <flo> less confusing advanced options
17:59:36 <flo> cleaner buddy tooltips
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18:09:38 <Mic> Hi, sorry, I can't attend today's meeting as you might have noticed. I wouldn't have anything to tell anyways, though ;)
18:10:15 <flo> Mic: you can have an opinion even if you haven't produced massive patches during the last week :)
18:10:40 <clokep_work> Sorry about that, got a phone call for a meeting.
18:11:09 <clokep_work> Ah, end of January does sound familiar and there is enough in it to differentiate it from 1.1, it's just that shipping is a lot of work. :(
18:12:28 <flo> ok, so let's draft an 1.2 plan to see if it's what we want to do
18:13:31 <flo> https://etherpad.mozilla.org/instantbird-1-2-plan
18:14:43 <clokep_work> Alright.
18:15:34 <flo> aleth: is anybody working on that?
18:15:43 <flo> waiting on something that isn't happening is waiting forever
18:16:20 <aleth> Some things have been done I think, others would need someone familiar with AIO interna to take a look (search!)
18:16:20 <flo> Mook_as: hello :)
18:16:25 <Mook_as> flo: hi!
18:16:45 <Mook_as> (and not producing patches has never made me stop having opinions ;) )
18:16:51 <Mic> aleth: I think that's my tracking bug with very undefined goals iirc. Sorry for that.
18:16:53 <aleth> Some things are easy to do and just worth not forgetting (e.g go through the list of recommended add-ons)
18:17:20 <Mic> Maybe defining a clear goal (what should be fixed) and what needs to be done as next step to get there would be a good start.
18:19:34 <flo> Mook_as: you still manage to produce fixes without sending patches though ;)
18:20:12 <flo> aleth: warning, you are volunteering to go through that list :-P
18:20:32 <flo> Mic: I think we need to find someone with the motivation to drive an update of AIO
18:20:44 <flo> that's *a lot* of work
18:21:00 <flo> we've been lucky for a while and have managed to avoid it, but we will have to do it eventually
18:21:40 <flo> except if we manager to get an "Instantbird" application added in AMO (that would be a lot of different work. More social engineering; less sys admin work).
18:22:51 <flo> I wonder how many week-ends are needed to kill all the bugs listed on that JS-XMPP todo list
18:23:28 <aleth> It's possible that since search works on the website itself, someone who knows the interna might not find bug 1079 that tricky?
18:23:32 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1079 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add-on search is erratic
18:23:49 <clokep_work> No one knows the "internal" very well, if much at all.
18:24:02 <flo> aleth: nobody knows the internals
18:24:28 <aleth> flo: ah... ok
18:24:48 <clokep_work> Weekends for me to do a lot of the stuff on the XMPP list? Probably 5 - 6? But I have no idea really.
18:24:55 <flo> even the original authors no longer want to touch that code. They restarted mostly from scratch more or less 2 years ago
18:26:30 <flo> so, does it look like JS-XMPP should be fixed, or "backed out" (for Gtalk)?
18:26:47 <aleth> gtg
18:28:11 <clokep_work> For release in January? "backed out".
18:28:35 <clokep_work> Although I don't like saying that. :(
18:31:40 <flo> we still need to fix that item ("- find why js-xmpp attempts to reconnect when offline (-> I think we have discussed that on IRC already, someone just needs to write the trivial patch)") if we keep JS-XMPP for facebook chat
18:32:05 <flo> and what are we doing with qq?
18:32:09 <Mic> I need to go, good luck with all that
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18:32:47 <flo> I need to go too. Good evening. :)
18:32:56 <clokep_work> Goodnight!
18:33:15 <clokep_work> How difficult is the captcha patch (in your estimate)?
18:33:51 <flo> I won't have time/interested to work on it.
18:33:56 <flo> I may be able to review it
18:34:05 <flo> it depends how cleanly you want to handle it
18:34:24 <flo> the easiest thing to do is probably to abuse the browser-request dialog used for OAuth
18:35:12 <flo> so just implement some code either in C++ XPCOM or JS XPCOM or a mix of both to go from the libpurple captcha request to a notification suitable for opening that dialog.
18:35:13 * instantbot mumbles something about c++ being evil
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18:39:20 <clokep_work> Alright. Well, maybe I'll look at it, and if it seems like only a few hours of work...it'll be worth it to keep the protocol.
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20:34:34 * clokep_work is remembering why he hates C.
20:40:08 <flo> C++ is worst in some ways ;)
20:40:18 <flo> (and better in others :))
20:41:20 <clokep_work> Yeah, I'm stuck on C though, C++ doesn't integrate well with MATLAB AFAIK.
20:42:22 <flo> oh, I somehow missed the _work nick; I thought you were reading libpurple/QQ :-D
20:43:26 <clokep_work> Noooo. Still another hour here.
20:43:35 <clokep_work> If I were doing that, I would've said "hates glib C"
20:43:40 <clokep_work> It's like a freaking different language.
20:44:05 <flo> ahah
20:44:33 <clokep_work> (Although Mozilla code is almost worse. :-X)
20:44:44 <clokep_work> (In it looking like a different language, that is.)
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21:08:35 <Mook_as> clokep_work: oh, feel free to ping me whenever (work or home) if you want to test funny non-Latin1 text over IRC
21:10:42 <clokep_work> Thanks Mook_as. :)
21:11:18 <Mook_as> (I deal better with East Asian languages, though I can copy country names out of wikipedia okay too :p )
21:13:07 <flo> if a single accent is enough for your test, you can just copy/paste my last name from bugzilla or the about page ;)
21:13:13 <clokep_work> I can probably do that too. ;)
21:13:22 <clokep_work> But those are all in UTF-8, right?
21:13:26 <Mook_as> flo: that only works if the file he's copying from are correct ;)
21:13:36 <Mook_as> cz can switch code pages on the fly, IIRC
21:13:40 <flo> clokep_work: that doesn't matter
21:13:55 <flo> clokep_work: you just need to have a working client on one hand
21:14:00 <flo> *end
21:14:06 <flo> and your debug build on the other
21:14:09 <Mook_as> 中文 <-- utf8
21:14:20 <Mook_as> ¤¤¤å <-- big5
21:14:33 <flo> we use utf8 by default currently
21:14:56 <flo> even though instantbot's logs seem in iso something
21:15:11 <Mook_as> http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/120109/#m271 <-- presumably utf8-in-utf8 :p
21:15:41 <flo> hé
21:15:47 <flo> Mook_as: right
21:15:51 <Mook_as> yeah, decodeURIComponent(escape()) fixes it
21:15:55 <flo> silly bot
21:17:06 <flo> https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=sw%3A1.2&list_id=292
21:18:28 <Mook_as> fwiw: yes, bug 1046 comment 2 is a totally different bug :)
21:18:31 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1046 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Account window shows up on disconnect/reconnect
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22:21:51 <flo> Good night :)
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