#instantbird log on 01 05 2012

All times are UTC.

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06:25:44 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1226 filed by pingu8007@gmail.com.
06:25:47 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1226 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Double Byte Character Set become blocks
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11:45:19 <flo> hello :)
11:47:57 <clokep> Good afternoon flo!
11:50:06 <flo> I wonder how easy/difficult it will be to integrate gloda in Instantbird once it works in Thunderbird for IM logs (I'm working on crawling the |logs| folder right now)
11:51:14 <clokep> I hope it'll be fairly easy!
11:52:15 <clokep> I think JS-IRC is getting close to a point of it needing a full review.
11:53:12 <flo> ready for a review during the week-end?
11:54:49 <clokep> Should be able to.
11:55:05 <clokep> I need to read over bits of it and check a few things, but I don't think there's other functionality to be added.
11:55:36 <flo> what about the join/left system messages?
11:56:04 <clokep> I haven't looked into it in depth yet.
11:56:22 <clokep> I can look into it and try to get that landed first.
11:56:43 <flo> if you want to fix it for XMPP MUCs while you are at it... ;)
11:58:00 <clokep> :P Well adding it to the core would!
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14:26:35 <Draighth> Morning/Afternoon everyone!
14:50:29 <clokep_work> Good morning Draighth!
14:53:04 <flo> "Get Instantbird 1.1 while it's hot!" in the topic sounds outdated
14:56:06 topic changed by clokep_work to "Ask questions about Instantbird (http://www.instantbird.com) here|Current version is Instantbird 1.1! :) |News: http://blog.instantbird.org/ |Nightlies: http://nightly.instantbird.im/ (testing purposes only) |IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/ |Pastebin: http://pastebin.instantbird.org/"
14:57:20 <Draighth> Hey guys, I've noticed something about the tagging, etc....
14:58:19 <clokep_work> Go ahead.
14:58:25 <Draighth> I've removed several users from one tag. They then log off and when they come back on, they are under the old tag AND the new tag... Any ideas?
14:58:25 <Draighth> Also, the tags are generated by the userlist from the server, correct?
14:58:56 <Draighth> BTW, these are all FB friends that I am seeing this
14:59:02 <flo> you can't remove the "Facebook Friends" tag, it's from the server
14:59:06 <clokep_work> Draighth: You CANNOT change the tags of Facebook Friends.
14:59:09 <clokep_work> Facebook does not allow it.
14:59:12 <flo> (and I already told you that yesterday)
14:59:37 <Draighth> wait, I know I can't remove 'Facebook Friends' but I can't change the tag under a specific user?
15:00:04 <flo> you can't remove tags from contacts
15:00:14 <Draighth> ah, I misunderstood then
15:00:24 <flo> you can just add more if you like (and hide the stupid "Facebook Friends" tag the facebook server imposes)
15:00:58 <Draighth> I thought you were saying that the 'Facebook Friends' tag can't be removed... meaning you will always have folks under there... but I didn't know you couldn't change the user's tags of Facebook users.
15:01:06 <flo> (by the way, I still don't have a "Facebook Friends" group on my real facebook account. I have it in my test accounts though)
15:01:25 <Draighth> exactly, I don't have that group under FB either
15:01:39 <clokep_work> You can add extra tags to your facebook friends, but you can't remove the Facebook Friends tag from them.
15:01:48 <flo> you are misunderstanding again what I said ;)
15:02:13 <Draighth> ok, got it
15:11:14 <clokep_work> It used to be really nice that Facebook just used how you had tagged them on Facebook.com. :(
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15:15:43 <Draighth> That would be perfect... I even see some of the 'tags' that I do have assigned to others on FB.
15:16:20 <Draighth> Can you configure which notifications to get? i.e. get sign ons but not sign offs?
15:16:47 <clokep_work> No.
15:16:56 <clokep_work> It could probably be done in an extension, but I don't know of any.
15:18:00 <Draighth> ok, thanks. Also, I've noticed that the notifications are overlapping each other.
15:18:32 <Draighth> BTW, I am running Windows 7 Professional... if it might make any difference.
15:18:48 <clokep_work> "overlapping each other"?
15:20:05 <Draighth> right... one row of notifications overlap each other eventhough there are three of them.
15:20:20 <Draighth> you can tell this by the longer one being under the smaller one
15:20:29 <Draighth> so it looks like the emblem is repeating.
15:20:40 <Draighth> horizontally
15:21:21 <Draighth> like if it was FB pretend that the logo is "FB" it would look something like this:
15:21:21 <Draighth> FFFB
15:21:57 <Draighth> that would simulate three different notifications with each one below it longer than the one above it.
15:22:16 <clokep_work> The pop up notifications? Are you using an extension?
15:22:26 <clokep_work> And yes, they overlap...we use Mozilla's library for it...
15:22:30 <clokep_work> And it doesn't handle that.
15:25:41 <Draighth> I have the following extensions installed:
15:25:41 <Draighth> Bishop
15:25:41 <Draighth> Buddy status
15:25:41 <Draighth> Minimal
15:25:41 <Draighth> Show Nick
15:25:41 <Draighth> Status Reminder
15:25:41 <Draighth> Toggle Participant List
15:27:01 <clokep_work> Right, so Buddy Status is what makes those pop ups.
15:27:10 <clokep_work> The guy who made it isn't logged in right now.
15:27:23 <clokep_work> I think he's been experimenting with a way to fix that though.
15:27:32 <Draighth> ah, OK
15:27:49 <clokep_work> Just tell your buddies to not sign off as much! ;)
15:28:03 <Draighth> is there another link/site with more extensions other than the one on instantbird.org?
15:28:09 <Draighth> good one clokep_work 
15:28:15 <clokep_work> http://addons.instantbird.com
15:28:38 <clokep_work> Besides that...others might exist, but I don't know of any. :)
15:28:54 <flo> clokep_work: it's https, and .org
15:29:07 <clokep_work> flo: It redirected. ;)
15:29:15 <Draighth> Just curious since the # of them seem limited
15:29:20 <flo> but can be spoofed
15:30:42 <clokep_work> Draighth: Yeah, hopefully people will make more!
15:37:57 <Draighth> I do like the fact that it uses similar, if not the same, tech as firefox and thunderbird.... I would think that it would be easier to customize, etc.
15:40:34 <clokep_work> It's extremely easy to customize. :) People have ported some extensions over from Firefox/Thunderbird.
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17:59:20 <diogo> Hi guys, bug on google talk connect account. Need use Jabber alternative
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18:00:31 <flo> diogo: hello. Can you rephrase please? Your sentence is hard to understand
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18:09:49 <clokep_work> (And give more details?)
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18:54:20 <diogo> Sorry, but my english is terrible. When I try connect Gtalk account it's still connecting forever. Than, configuring with old ssl and port 5223 XMPP account it's connect. Gtalk default configurations should be wrong, because it's not working.
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18:56:08 <diogo> I'm using linux version 1.1 on ubuntu 11.10
18:56:16 <diogo> 64 bit
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19:01:12 <clokep_work> The default configuration is working for many people.
19:01:33 <clokep_work> I wonder if it's possible your server doesn't support TLS for some reason. :-/
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19:01:42 <clokep_work> Is it with an @gtalk account or a Google Apps account?
19:02:18 <diogo> no, it's a simple gtalk account with domain: google.com
19:05:05 <diogo> I think it could be a bug, but if it's working with others perhaps no 
19:05:49 <clokep_work> "google.com"? Not gmail.com?
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19:05:55 <diogo> sorry
19:05:57 <diogo> gmail.com
19:06:01 <clokep_work> Just making sure. :)
19:06:02 <diogo> the default
19:06:06 <diogo> :)
19:06:38 <clokep_work> I'm not sure why it couldn't be working, perhaps one of the other developers will know. :(
19:11:29 <diogo> No problem, here everything ok, but just advising. Thx for attention
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20:55:07 <Mic> Hi
20:55:17 <flo> Mic: Good evening :)
20:56:26 <Mic> Draight: I only skimmed the logs but it seems you see problems with Buddy Status (status change and sign on/off notifications)?
20:56:58 <Mic> I'm using the build-in notification system (that also allows Firefox to show its "Download finished" notifications and the like).
20:57:15 <Mic> Unfortunately it's not suited to show several notifications at once.
20:58:30 <Mic> I'm hoping to replace it with something better or at least be able to point people to a replacement for it (coming as an extension then)
20:59:41 <Mic> If you're the programming-kind of people, you might want to look at https://github.com/mook/allevet
21:00:04 <flo> if you/we have a better replacement that is better in all cases, we could as well get it reviewed and land it in mozilla-central
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21:05:24 <Mic> I haven't used Moo k's "allevet" notifications in a qhile but they were working fairly well last time I checked.
21:05:53 <Mic> bbl
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21:11:09 <Mook_as> last I checked, it had issues with multi-monitor configurations, and a nasty habit of showing up below other windows
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21:17:51 <clokep_work> Mook_as: Does the current system have issues with multi-monitor too though? ;)
21:18:07 <Mook_as> last I checked it was "reasonable"
21:18:15 <clokep_work> Ah OK.
21:18:20 <aleth> The semi-new chunking-with-progress bar really makes IB much less jarring to use on slow PCs :)
21:18:21 <flo> clokep_work: it has issues with a single monitor ;)
21:19:19 <flo> I think the last time I saw these stupid notifications on my linux box, they weren't showing on the primary monitor, but on the tiny secondary monitor (I guess they were showing on the left most monitor)
21:19:33 <flo> semi-new? :)
21:19:41 <aleth> couple days old ;)
21:20:03 <flo> I'm still wondering if we should add some more code to not show the progress bar when it will stay there only very little time
21:20:24 <flo> it's a bit odd to have "something" flickering at the bottom of the view but not being able to see what it is
21:20:41 <flo> that happens for me for conversations with a few dozen messages
21:24:19 <aleth> That sounds good - it should not be distracting
21:24:34 <flo> but yeah, I really like that change, and I'm still playing with it (looking forward to restoring large conversations on hold to see how smooth the progressbar will be)
21:24:40 <aleth> Is there an easy way to tell how rapidly 'progress' is being made?
21:26:12 <flo> if we take the (mostly reasonable) assumption that all messages take about the same time to display, then we can see how many messages we have displayed already in how much time, and estimate based on how many messages are left to display
21:27:36 <aleth> That should work, to take account of computer speed
21:27:58 <flo> does this sound reasonable:
21:27:58 <flo> - do not display the progress bar during the first 120ms
21:27:59 <flo> - after 120ms (3 calls to displayPendingMessages), display the progress bar only if we have already displayed less than a third (or quarter) of the total message count
21:28:16 <aleth> Yes
21:29:06 <flo> aleth: that assumption works only if the message theme is written mostly correctly. If each new message is included as a child node of the previous message, we may end up with something getting slower and slower for each additional message
21:30:22 <aleth> Yes, but if you can display 1/3 of the total messages in 120 ms then additional slowdown should still not cause a huge delay
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21:31:19 <aleth> That would be my expectation at least
21:32:03 <aleth> Anyway, one could tweak the parameters until they 'felt right'
21:32:06 <flo> my feeling about it is: as long as it doesn't affect the message themes we ship by default, it's not my problem :)
21:32:38 <flo> would you like to work on this?
21:32:52 <aleth> For sure :) It's just something to check when message styles ask for review on AIO
21:33:19 <aleth> Am travelling atm, so can't work on anything for a while
21:35:57 <flo> if I find time to spend on that kind of things, I'll probably spend it making the nicklist loading asynchronous too rather than hiding a blinking progressbar, so I probably won't work on that soon
21:36:04 <aleth> Sadly I have no laptop atm :/
21:36:26 <flo> traveling without a laptop?!?
21:36:34 <aleth> Yeah :(
21:36:41 <flo> I call that "vacations"! ;)
21:36:44 <Draighth> Hey Mic, that about sums it up and just for clarity, I am using multiple monitors.
21:36:53 <flo> I travel with an AMI instead in that case :)
21:36:55 <aleth> lol
21:37:43 <aleth> oh yea, the nicklist loading...
21:37:59 <Draighth> brb
21:38:13 <aleth> I was looking into the nicklist scroll/item loss bugs a while back but didn't make much progress
21:39:36 <aleth> Couldn't find a nice reproducible test case
21:39:48 <Mic> igorko: concerning the translation extension and the comment "This add-on has some bugs, caused by not full port. At this moment works only Dictionary."
21:40:03 <Mic> Does that mean that it can't translate sentences, only words at the moment?
21:40:11 <flo> aleth: it sounded like a frustrating bug. especially because there was no easily reproducible test case
21:40:39 <Mic> I interpreted that from "only dictionary"
21:40:49 <Draighth> ok, back
21:41:06 <Draighth> sorry for the delays in responding, at work. :D
21:48:36 <Draighth> anyone have any experience with voip solutions like magicjack or nettalk?
21:50:21 <igorko> Mic about extension
21:50:32 <igorko> it can translate sentences
21:50:43 <igorko> it just can't translate "full page"
21:51:26 <Mic> OK, thanks. I haven't managed to get sentences translated yet. Maybe I just did something worng. Will check that again :)
21:52:29 <igorko> when it was based on google dictionary translation sentences  was much better
21:52:43 <igorko> it sucks a little after switching to wikionary
21:54:11 <igorko> try to select some part of sentence if it sucks
21:57:41 <Mic> flo, I'm trying to do my first review of an add-on on AIO. I could use some guidance/questions answered if you've got some time for that.
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21:58:38 <flo> Mic: feel free to ask :)
21:58:47 <Mic> OK, I'll pm you.
21:59:06 <igorko> Mic I have updated description
21:59:13 <flo> isn't it better to be open about the review progress? :)
21:59:16 <Mic> thanks :)
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22:00:48 <igorko> hm But i have no idea what is used when translating sentences : wiktionary or google translate
22:01:02 <igorko> logically it should be second
22:02:56 <flo> Mic: actually, I think we should document (on the wiki?) what are the expectations for an add-on review
22:03:02 <igorko> yup It uses Wiktionary (cheked with Firefox)
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22:05:00 <igorko> test:
22:05:14 <igorko> I have uploaded addon to site
22:05:39 <igorko> translation looks similar
22:06:00 <igorko> i'll remove that note about sentences
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22:12:31 <flo> Mic: the point of the review is mostly to catch add-ons that could harm the user's security or privacy, or break the application and to avoid listing pointless add-ons.
22:13:29 <Mic> Do I need to check with all versions of IB that it is listed to be compatible with?
22:13:31 <flo> and add-on is pointless if it doesn't do anything (useful); if it doesn't work at all (doesn't do what's in the description) or if it duplicates built-in functionality
22:13:59 <flo> Mic: no. That's too much work!
22:14:29 <flo> Mic: when you grant the review, the form asks you which OS and which instantbird version you have tested with
22:14:53 <Mic> Good to know, I haven't been that far yet ;)
22:16:49 <flo> for potential security/privacy issues, things to look for: binary components, minimified (unreadable) JS code, JS code using eval(), JS code using the network and not sanitizing the received data (especially using external scripts), code sending information about the user to some remote server
22:19:40 <flo> so the typical review process is: 1. read the description, 2. download and install the add-on. 3. Check that Instantbird still works. 4. Check that the add-on seems to do the described thing. 5. Check that the add-on uninstalls correctly without messing things up (= that instantbird still works after the add-on has been disabled/uninstalled). 6. Look quickly at the code to see if you find things that look dangerous.
22:20:05 <flo> depending on how much you trust the add-on author, you may want to start with 6.
22:20:58 <flo> you don't need to download/extract the .xpi file to look at the code, there's a "View Contents" link in the editor UI that lets you see the content directly from AIO
22:22:27 <flo> The goal is *not* to do a code review to suggest improvements to the implementation or other possible approaches. Add-on authors who want that kind of review/help should come here, discuss with us and pastebin the relevant code
22:22:39 <Mic> I admit I would have missed 5.
22:24:53 <flo> I've never seen an add-on failing at step 5
22:25:53 <flo> an easy way to fail at that step is to replace some default preference values at runtime rather than with a file containing new default values.
22:26:33 <flo> if the new preference values don't work when the add-on is installed, things are messed up
22:26:41 <flo> *isn't
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22:55:44 <clokep> Is there a way to update a ConvIM's name (if someone changes their nick)? Doe sthat work right now?
22:56:31 <Mic> I think it was broken but is fixed now?
22:56:31 <clokep> Ah, update-conv-title I'm guessing...
22:56:36 <Mic> Let me find the bug number?
22:58:53 <flo> clokep: yes.
22:59:48 <clokep> I found it on the notifications list. :)
23:02:03 <instantbot> benediktp@ymail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1008 to DUPLICATE of bug 1221.
23:02:06 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1008 enh, --, ---, nobody, RESO DUPLICATE, Change contact tooltip layout and style to match the conversation header
23:02:07 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1221 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Redesign buddy tooltips
23:02:26 <flo> boo :(
23:02:41 <flo> have I filed both?
23:03:15 <clokep> Nah, Mic filed one.
23:04:45 <Draighth> well, y'all have an awesome night and God bless!
23:06:16 <Mic> Good night
23:07:46 <Mic> flo: I'm not asked how I tested an add-on by the way.
23:08:25 <flo> Mic: then you are lucky :)
23:08:38 <flo> I keep having to type something in those 2 stupid boxes
23:08:54 <flo> (it's a bit stupid to have to type something in the review form when I'm reviewing my own add-ons ;))
23:10:13 <clokep> Good night Mic!
23:10:59 <Mic> clokep: that wasn't about myself ;)
23:11:14 <clokep> Mic: Sorry, I'm trying to get rid of you...
23:11:20 <Mic> :P
23:12:20 <flo> clokep: then maybe you should send more add-ons to review in his way :-P
23:12:50 <clokep> I'll probably make some once we land JS-IRC. :)
23:12:53 <Mook_as> hmm, should ib really display me as online (at the top of the contact list) when none of my accounts are connected?
23:13:31 <Mic> Mook_as: I filed a bug about that iirc
23:13:47 <Mook_as> thanks, human bugzilla query interface ;)
23:14:56 <clokep> well you are online. ;)
23:15:04 <clokep> But it does seem weird.
23:16:12 <Mic> clokep: sure, technically it is correct. It's misleading anyways in my opinion.
23:17:31 <Mic> Is the layout of the wiki only broken for me? The navigation box is moved below the end of the content of the right hand side
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23:32:54 <Mic> I created a wiki article for reviews: https://wiki.instantbird.org/Guidelines_for_add-on_reviews
23:33:03 <Mic> Thanks for writing this article for me, flo ;)
23:34:12 <flo> thanks for saving it! :)
23:34:29 <flo> the left column is broken for me too
23:37:41 <flo> the only piece of information you haven't captured is the example of how an add-on can fail at the "ib still works after uninstalling the add-on" step
23:39:35 <Mic> I know, wasn't that overly specific? I can add it if you like ..
23:40:11 <flo> it maybe something that needs to be looked at while looking at the code
23:40:35 <flo> (checking that the add-on doesn't change the user's configuration for no reason)
23:40:48 <flo> *no apparent reason
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23:52:29 <Mic> I updated the article.
23:56:39 <flo> :)
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