#instantbird log on 01 04 2012

All times are UTC.

00:00:13 <flo> clokep: I remember you said the max number of chars a message can contain depends on the channel name or nick name (for private messages). I see you receive "NICKLEN=30 CHANNELLEN=32", can't we assume the channel name / nick length is always the maximum for the calculation of remaining characters?
00:00:34 <clokep> flo: No.
00:00:58 <flo> why? :)
00:01:12 <clokep> So in the specification for ISUPPORT, it says that those should only be used for things the client attempts to change, but the server could inform the client of a nick/channel of a longer length.
00:01:27 <clokep> (I.e. we should block the user from changing his nick to a 31 char nick, but we need to accepted a 31 char nick.)
00:01:44 <flo> uh :(
00:02:04 <flo> that sounds stupid :(
00:02:13 <clokep> Yes.
00:02:32 <clokep> I agree. :-/
00:03:47 <flo> what about "Handle receiving non-ASCII messages."?
00:04:27 <clokep> That definitely needs to be finished.
00:04:58 <clokep> While I'm doing that...does it make sense to allow each channel to have a separate charset?
00:05:36 <flo> so does it already works for UTF8 and you just want to add a way to specify a charset, or is it really as broken as that comment makes it seem?
00:06:45 <Mook_as> I'd recommend leaving non-ASCII to post-initial-landing assuming that doesn't become the default irc prpl on landing, actually
00:07:05 <Mook_as> get something good enough to test, but don't use it until it looks as polished as the old thing :)
00:07:24 <Mook_as> (same with the funny nicks comment)
00:08:23 <clokep> flo: I think it's ASCII right now.
00:14:27 <flo> Mook_as: I think it will be the default IRC plugin (on nightlies) as soon as it lands
00:14:43 <flo> and UTF8 support is really needed
00:15:54 <flo> Mook_as: I use french IRC channel, and send french private messages almost everyday. It would be a severe regression for me to not be able to do that anymore ;)
00:15:59 <flo> *channels
00:16:06 <Mook_as> hehe
00:16:30 <Mook_as> yeah, I was thinking mostly in terms of not-actually-turned-on-by-default
00:16:41 <Mook_as> if it is... it has higher requirements
00:24:55 <flo> Good night :)
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01:03:55 <clokep> Ah-ha! My crasher disappeared. :)
01:04:26 <clokep> The new log viewer is nice flo. :)
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01:36:48 <clokep> Mook_as: Do you know how I can take a string and convert it to a different encoding in JavaScript? It seems I can only get a stream out out of converters not a string. :-/
01:37:17 <Mook_as> nsIScriptableUnicodeConverter ?
01:37:24 <clokep> (And I can then convert to a scriptableinputstream, but...that seems to have lots of warns saying it isn't Unicode safe pretty much.)
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01:37:42 <clokep> Yes, it returns a stream though.
01:37:51 <Mook_as> ConvertToUnicode + ConvertFromUnicode ?
01:38:01 <clokep> Hmmm...maybe.
01:38:09 <clokep> I don't think those take different encodings as parameters...
01:38:23 <Mook_as> but you can have two converters...
01:38:32 <Mook_as> (it's always <random encoding> -> unicode -> <other random encoding>)
01:38:41 <Mook_as> where unicode is, for our purposes, UTF-16
01:39:01 <clokep> Ah, I see.
01:40:12 <clokep> Character encodings are confusing. :(
01:41:12 <Mook_as> what are you trying to do, out of curiosity?
01:41:31 <clokep> Take the output of the IRC socket stuff and make it be able to understand charsets.
01:41:55 <Mook_as> so why isn't it just <server charset> -> unicode?
01:42:03 <Mook_as> (why do you sound like you want to transcode?)
01:42:54 <clokep> Don't I have to transcode it? I have no idea what charset I'm getting.
01:43:10 <Mook_as> well, your input is, (as an example, moznet), utf8, right?
01:43:30 <Mook_as> I assume you want instantbird to deal in unicode?
01:43:51 <clokep> Well most IRC clients let you input the charset you want to work in.
01:44:07 <clokep> Is there any reason /not/ to just deal in Unicode?
01:44:30 <Mook_as> well, mostly only if everybody else is not unicode
01:44:49 <clokep> Alright.
01:45:08 <clokep> Right now I have this: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/6112
01:45:18 <clokep> Where lines 20 - 23 are the new parts (mostly)
01:45:49 <Mook_as> so, that sounds backwards
01:47:23 <clokep> So I'm trying to convert from <whatever the server gives me> to <whatever the user input into the pref>.
01:47:35 <clokep> Maybe that's the wrong thing to do, but that's what I was setting out to do. :)
01:49:33 <Mook_as> right, so the server gives you, say, utf8
01:49:44 <Mook_as> and you want the user to end up with unicode (as in, utf16)
01:49:52 <clokep> OK.
01:50:05 <clokep> (As an aside, is utf8 not Unicode?)
01:50:10 <Mook_as> (think them of distinct types with nasty auto-conversion)
01:50:24 <Mook_as> yeah; utf8 is a bad example there; think iso-8859-1 or shift-jis instead :)
01:50:40 <clokep> OK, but how do I know what the server is giving me?
01:50:45 <clokep> Or is that what the user input as the pref?
01:55:55 <Mook_as> yeah, you need the user to tell you that
01:56:03 <Mook_as> (line 4)
01:56:29 <clokep> Alright. :) So I was just getting confused as to what I was going to and what from.
01:56:33 <clokep> Thanks for explaining!
02:00:05 <Mook_as> you're welcome!
02:00:13 <Mook_as> it's like physics: always work out the units first :p
02:00:29 <clokep> :)
02:00:41 <clokep> That's pretty much how I always do physics. :P
02:00:54 <clokep> Unless you start getting into slugs and stuff, then I just give up. ;)
02:01:46 <Mook_as> oh, remember to make sure you convert back on output (sending to the network), of course
02:02:03 <clokep> Yes, that part was already done!
02:05:25 <Mook_as> heh, nice
02:05:43 <Mook_as> hmm, I should go home. see you later :)
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02:24:37 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1225 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
02:24:38 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 1108 on bug 1225.
02:24:39 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1225 min, --, ---, nobody, ASSI, Support pymake (port mozbug 714178)
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04:07:58 <ecaron> Interesting discussion going on in the Pidgin thread about the the EFF: http://pidgin.im/pipermail/devel/2012-January/010527.html
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10:01:22 <flo> hello :)
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10:09:22 <flo> clokep: any idea of what made your crash disappear? :)
10:09:30 <flo> I'm glad you like the log viewer changes :)
10:11:07 <flo> ecaron: I'm wondering which part of that discussion you find interesting. Do you think we should change the way we handle logs by default?
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11:03:42 <flo> I wonder what's the cause of the Warning: reference to undefined property aMessage[f] warning in logger.js
11:04:05 <flo> it may just be a typo in one of the property names, or maybe a missing attribute implementation in jsProtoHelper
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11:38:05 <clokep> flo: I actually crashed again yesterday when shutting down. :( So it just seemed to work for that one restart for whatever reason.
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14:06:16 <luminoso> hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
14:06:29 <luminoso> i've been search for a while. how do i search for my huge friends list?
14:07:11 <luminoso> usually is just start typing on the main window. but that doesn't work. neither control+f or control+s
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14:09:33 <clokep_work> luminoso: That's not supported right now. We have a couple of bugs on file about it.
14:09:57 <flo> http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/mailnews/base/util/nsMsgDBFolder.cpp#5737 seems very interesting
14:10:14 <luminoso> clokep_work, thank you
14:10:41 <flo> if all the interfaces it uses are scriptable, we can rewrite that in JS, and then use it in http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/modules/ibNotifications.jsm#59 and http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/components/src/logger.js#157 instead of the hidden window hack
14:11:15 <luminoso> i've tested A LOT of multiple-network clients and instantbird is by far with the best features:footprint:eyecandy balance ;-)
14:12:01 <flo> luminoso: when you want to search in the huge friend list, is it always when you want to start a conversation with a specific person, or are there other use cases?
14:12:14 <flo> luminoso: thanks :)
14:12:40 <luminoso> a specific person. i need to talk to "john" and searching is a pain because he can be on any network
14:13:09 <luminoso> i can always create a group with the most frequent contacts but it's only a workarround
14:13:15 <clokep_work> You should combine all your John's into one contact!
14:13:26 <flo> the network shouldn't matter
14:13:36 <clokep_work> We'd really like to be able to automatically tell you who your frequent contacts are too, but that's a bit down the line...
14:13:46 <flo> and I think a group with the most frequent contacts would be pretty useful (it should be generated and maintained automatically of course)
14:14:15 <luminoso> it works, but nothing beats search-on-type
14:14:32 <luminoso> so it is predicted to be working in a near future?
14:15:08 <flo> luminoso: in the future I would like us to have a new tab/new conversation feature, where you would type to filter the list of possible conversations. That list would include all the contacts, sorted by how frequently you talk to them, and be filtered by what you start typing
14:15:26 <luminoso> that's really cool
14:15:51 <flo> so without typing you could have the 5 top contacts visible, and if you start typing, you can get pretty quickly to a specific person you rarely talk to
14:16:02 <flo> and if you type something that isn't in the list at all, it will propose to add it
14:16:35 <luminoso> i wonder why such a nice project from mozilla is so "hidden"
14:16:45 <luminoso> it took me a while to find instantbird
14:17:06 <luminoso> the only reference that i've found was at archlinux wiki 
14:17:45 <flo> we are the first result for a "Mozilla IM" Google query
14:18:57 <luminoso> well i mainly searched for "jabber client" and "multi network messenger client"
14:19:02 <luminoso> maybe not the best keyworks
14:20:08 <flo> "jabber client" is probably a very bad if you were expecting multi-network clients in the results :) 
14:20:21 <flo> Trillian turns out first for "multi network messenger client"
14:21:02 <flo> I wonder how the ProcessOne folks managed to be 2nd with their OneTeam jabber client for that query :-S
14:24:00 <flo> nsIParser isn't scriptable :(
14:24:22 * flo is disappointed
14:30:17 <luminoso> lloll
14:30:28 <luminoso> you have a really good chat client
14:30:55 <luminoso> release the search feature and I believe that's ready for everyone. 
14:31:18 <flo> I'm working on search for conversation archives
14:31:31 <luminoso> I'm predicting if I install this in someones computer they will also complain about search. Nowadays the average friendlist size is hugeee
14:32:13 <luminoso> At least here where I live most of the people are in the dilema between finding the balance of be available on wlm, facebook and gtalk network
14:32:19 <flo> you would probably be surprised by how usage patterns differ from an user to another
14:32:47 <luminoso> yes i know. i'm talking about my experience. 
14:32:54 <flo> I know several users who have an average of less than 1 connect friends :-P
14:33:05 <flo> *connected friend
14:33:23 <luminoso> the 'war' happening on my local city is fast declining of wlm network versus declining of quality of facebook posts versus "but everyone is at facebook now" lol
14:33:27 <flo> that is, they open instantbird if they want to talk to that specific person they use instantbird to talk to. If the person isn't available, they close Instantbird.
14:34:56 <flo> I also know someone who used to use Instantbird and kepts asking for a way to remove the useless contact list window (because you know, the average user (from his point of view) doesn't need that list, the chat client is just to reply in conversations initiated by others)
14:36:17 <luminoso> :-O
14:36:44 <luminoso> well that are really new usages that i've never heard of !
14:37:00 <flo> I also noticed people putting the contact list window *full screen*!
14:44:59 <flo> by the way, if anybody is interested in my Thunderbird work: I filed a public bug (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=714733) with a WIP patch and a link to a try server build
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14:50:19 <clokep_work> flo: Would our protocol extensions work in Thunderbird simply by updating the install.rdf? Would there be anything else to do?
14:50:55 <clokep_work> (And great! I'll hopefully give the try build a try later... err...(o-O) something like that. :P)
15:04:22 <GeekShadow> flo, woo big patch :)
15:04:29 <GeekShadow> oh and hello
15:05:37 <flo> clokep_work: yes, marking them compatible with Thunderbird should be enough
15:06:24 <GeekShadow> but I still don't get, why messaging and no built-in lightning in TB
15:07:37 <flo> GeekShadow: I think you can shorten that question to "why no built-in lightning?" (as it has really nothing to do with IM) and ask to some Thunderbird drivers if you want an answer.
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15:10:19 <Mic> flo: I ran that build (on Windows) and the chat tab's look was unexpected .. is the right column intended to become a participant list?
15:10:42 <flo> maybe for MUCs
15:11:30 <flo> the intent is to display context information there. So previous IM conversations, emails, files exchanged (attached in emails with the same contact), calendar invitations from that person, ...
15:12:24 <Mic> That's what it looks like on Vista: http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/6827/thunderbirdim.png
15:13:42 <flo> ah, right. It shouldn't be transparent
15:13:59 <flo> I did write in the bug that it was rough on Windows/Linux ;)
15:20:01 <GeekShadow> it look like this on Linux/Ubuntu : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/364419/temp/tbim.png
15:21:39 <GeekShadow> flo, anyway great job :)
15:22:30 <flo> different issues :)
15:25:00 <GeekShadow> with bonjour support it would be awesome
15:25:02 <GeekShadow> :D
15:25:14 <flo> add it? :)
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15:25:45 <Mic> Should I report the errors I saw after removing the account and going back to the chat tab? Or are they known/expected anyways?
15:25:54 <GeekShadow> flo, why not since libpurple support it
15:26:43 <flo> I think the chat tab wasn't implemented yet the last time I tried to delete an account
15:27:13 <flo> GeekShadow: the Thunderbird try build doesn't use libpurple
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15:34:51 <GeekShadow> flo, I didn't read the whole patch, what do you use instead ?
15:35:19 <flo> the Instantbird back-end without the libpurple part
15:35:47 <flo> Twitter is implemented in JS
15:35:58 <flo> Google Talk and Facebook Chat are in JS too in current nightlies
15:35:59 <clokep_work> As is XMPP (for Facebook & GTalk).
15:42:22 <GeekShadow> flo, nice :)
15:42:34 <flo> IRC in JS is coming soon too
15:44:14 <clokep_work> flo: If you saw my conversation w/ Mook last night...I think I have it working with multiple charsets now. :)
15:44:35 <flo> I read that during breakfast. It seemed very confusing
15:48:56 <clokep_work> Probably me being very confused about how encodings are used. :(
15:50:03 <flo> I would blame libpurple (or more specifically the crazy advanced options of the current IRC prpl) for confusing you ;)
15:52:27 <clokep_work> Or that IRC has no concept of character encodings?
15:52:55 <flo> is it hard to auto-detect incoming encoding?
15:53:06 <flo> (at a per-message level)
15:53:39 <clokep_work> I have no idea how to even go about that.
15:54:08 <clokep_work> (What do you do for XMPP by the way for encoding? Or is it all just UTF-8?)
15:54:40 <flo> I would start by looking at how View -> Character Encoding -> Auto-Detect works in Firefox
15:54:50 <flo> XMPP is always UTF8
15:55:29 <clokep_work> Alright.
15:56:21 <flo> libpurple replaces all characters that are invalid in the expected encoding with the "?" character. That's quite annoying :-/
16:00:26 <clokep_work> :-/ The Mozilla converter seems capable of doing that too. ;) I remember there being a "default replacement character"
16:07:58 <GeekShadow> flo, do you thought of adding an option to set a mail "replied by im" ?
16:08:23 <flo> see the wiki feature page
16:08:33 <flo> that was discussed at length :)
16:09:08 <GeekShadow> i'm already on it
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16:10:07 <GeekShadow> oh ok "Keeping links between emails and the related IM conversations" :)
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17:35:00 <clokep_work> This doesn't make me feel comfortable that Firefox is actually autodetecting: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/intl/chardet/src/nsDocumentCharsetInfo.cpp#70 ;)
17:37:33 <clokep_work> But anyway, I end up inside of http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/intl/chardet/public/ which has a bunch of stuff not XPCOMified it seems.
17:37:52 <clokep_work> (There's two detector classes, one for blocks, one for strings, but both are .h, not .idl)
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17:41:21 <flo> I think the last time I looked there, I concluded there was a lot of dead code around
17:48:34 <clokep_work> Seems like it to me too. :-/
17:52:51 <Mook_as> I recommend not auto-detecting, unless you can magically reply the incoming messages :p
17:53:09 <clokep_work> magically reply?
17:53:24 <Mook_as> err, *replay
17:53:55 <clokep_work> Ah. You mean if we auto-detect wrong?
17:54:07 <Mook_as> yep
17:54:28 <Mook_as> because it does better with a large corpus. pretty sure lines in IRC are typically not large :)
17:56:04 <Mook_as> (I've got some old code at http://src.songbirdnest.com/xref/trunk/components/mediacore/metadata/handler/taglib/src/MetadataHandlerTaglib.cpp#2380 which may or may not be useful for you)
17:57:10 <Mook_as> (including the bit where I repeatedly feed the same string in until it's got at least 256 bytes... :p )
17:57:57 <clokep_work> Haha.
17:58:01 <clokep_work> Sounds useful.
17:58:15 <clokep_work> Ideally you'd only want to replay the bits from the same person though. Which could be annoying.
17:59:03 <Mook_as> yeah. it's easier for everybody, I think, if the user just changes the charset on the account and reconnect :p
17:59:39 <Mook_as> (though I guess per-channel can be useful too)
17:59:54 <flo> Mook_as: it's per user though :(
18:00:05 <flo> I frequently see in the same channel people using different encodings
18:00:12 <Mook_as> oh, ugh
18:00:28 <Mook_as> your French friends, or whatever they are, are crazy :p
18:00:58 <flo> Mook_as: it's just that nobody changes the default encoding of the client
18:01:13 <flo> and some client default to iso<whatever> and others to UTF8
18:01:43 <Mook_as> they probably think in terms of CP_ACP :p
18:02:16 * flo has no idea what that means
18:03:30 <Mook_as> oh, just Windows for "some random encoding depending on what language version of Windows you installed"
18:03:46 <flo> sounds painful
18:03:58 <Mook_as> (roughly; these days you can change it somewhere)
18:04:24 <flo> I don't think people who have no idea of what an encoding is would do that though ;)
18:04:34 <Mook_as> heh, yeah :)
18:04:52 <Mook_as> at least you don't have to deal with old data here... have I mentioned yet how much I hate id3v1?
18:05:07 <flo> yes
18:05:26 <flo> you mentioned that once when someone complained about a poor spec (probably clokep about irc)
18:05:39 <Mook_as> oh, okay. well, I still hate it :p
18:05:47 <flo> good
18:05:50 <flo> at least it's consistent :)
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18:32:43 <clokep_work> Arg, don't get me started about IRC specs. ;)
18:33:13 <flo> I won't :)
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21:03:04 <luminoso> hey flo! another catch. custom emotions in msn network are not working. but it looks like they're not working for pidgin too humm
21:03:15 <luminoso> not importat. just saying ;-)
21:03:25 <clokep_work> If they're not working in Pidgin, don't expect them to work in Instantbird. ;)
21:03:26 <flo> it also looks like I would really not want that to work ;)
21:03:45 <luminoso> clokep_work, libpurple, right?
21:03:48 <flo> I also noticed that most popup windows don't work in Firefox.
21:04:09 <clokep_work> luminoso: Yes, they're both libpurple for most Protocols.
21:04:20 <luminoso> flo, well.. it's optional and disabled by default so not a big problem to whom doen't want it to work xD
21:04:47 <flo> (more seriously, I wouldn't mind us supporting msn custom emoticons; as long as it's not on by default and that I don't have to spend too much time implementing/fixing that feature)
21:06:22 <clokep_work> Do other protocol supports custom emoticons?
21:06:52 <flo> I think XMPP has an experimental XEP for it. (or was it an april fool? :-P)
21:07:14 * clokep_work thinks we should implement JSON-XMPP. ;)
21:07:43 <clokep_work> Actuallly something I'd seriously love someone to mess around with is whiteboards...
21:07:44 <luminoso> i kinda like custom emoticons IF people don't use them too much
21:07:46 <flo> go ahead :-P
21:07:55 <luminoso> and since memes are now mainstream it's funny sometimes
21:08:28 <flo> luminoso: yeah, so it would probably need to be with a user whitelist, rather than enabling/disabling it per account
21:09:54 <clokep_work> It's on my todo list. ;) Which is awfully long I feel like. :(
21:10:40 <luminoso> maybe sometime next year i'll be hable to submit some patches i hope
21:10:48 <luminoso> i'm learning programming ATM
21:10:51 <luminoso> :x
21:11:00 <luminoso> and help with that
21:11:50 <DGMurdockIII> firefox is starting to act werid but i thnk some of the feater there adding are only going to make it better
21:11:52 <Chaz6> Hey guys, I'm afraid i'm here to gripe about my #1 issue with instantbird
21:12:07 <DGMurdockIII> what is it
21:12:15 <DGMurdockIII> your # issue
21:12:18 <Chaz6> Whenever someone tries to add me as a contact, i don't get any notification about it, and they can never get approved :(
21:13:38 <Chaz6> I don't know if that got through so i'll say it again
21:13:43 <Chaz6> Whenever someone tries to add me as a contact, i don't get any notification about it, and they can never get approved :(
21:14:47 <flo> clokep_work: once your todo list will have an infinite length, you will no longer worry about adding another item making it any longer ;)
21:15:34 <flo> Chaz6: which protocol is it? Are you on a nightly or on the release?
21:15:37 <clokep_work> luminoso: Well if you're interested in helping at some point, we can point you to some beginner bugs and guide you through some things.
21:15:47 <Chaz6> Any protocol, most of the time it's msn and yahoo
21:15:51 <Chaz6> I'm using nightlies
21:16:17 <flo> luminoso: you absolutely don't need to have programming skills to start submitting patches. If you are willing to learn, as clokep_work just said, we can definitely find things that can get you involved
21:16:35 <flo> Chaz6: adding contacts / receiving invitation is currently broken in nightlies on Google Talk.
21:16:52 <Chaz6> I can't get it to work on any protocol
21:16:54 <flo> It's never been reliable with MSN, but isn't known to be completely broken either.
21:16:57 <flo> I've no idea about yahoo.
21:17:02 <Chaz6> Not once have I ever seen a friend request in ib
21:17:14 <luminoso> clokep_work, instantbird is what? c++ and gtk? 
21:17:16 <instantbot> c++ is evil
21:17:21 <Chaz6> people complain to me about it so i have to log in with another client
21:17:33 <flo> that sucks :(
21:18:11 <flo> luminoso: no gtk. Some parts are in C++, but we tend to move away from that and rewrite in JavaScript instead
21:18:14 <Chaz6> Do you think i could get anything useful from the error console to try and diagnose it?
21:18:15 <clokep_work> luminoso: The UI and a lot of the code is in JavaScript.
21:18:32 <flo> Chaz6: if there's an error in the error console, that may be helpful
21:19:29 <Chaz6> Okay next time I'll try and remember to have a look
21:19:45 <luminoso> :-O !!! so instatbird is highly dependent on firefox javascript core speed?
21:20:15 <clokep_work> luminoso: No more dependent than Firefox. ;)
21:20:37 <flo> luminoso: another way to phrase it is that it highly benefits from improvements there :)
21:21:12 <Chaz6> Hm, i wonder about compiling it with profile guided optimization (like pale moon vs firefox)
21:21:39 <flo> Chaz6: how would you notice the difference?
21:22:49 <Chaz6> sunspider/etc
21:24:30 <flo> would the added speed save your more time than you would spend making that compilation? :)
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21:25:16 <Chaz6> Well i think for a released binary, it could save a whole lot of users' cpu cycles on the whole :)
21:27:23 <clokep_work> But it's only compatible w/ newer processors I believe.
21:27:44 <flo> saving 10% of the CPU time of an application that usually takes less than 1% of the user's CPU doesn't sound like a large win to me
21:27:50 <flo> clokep_work: no
21:28:02 <flo> clokep_work: it's just a super painful compilation process.
21:28:49 <clokep_work> Oh. OK. Ignore me then. ;)
21:28:54 <flo> or if you are talking about optimizing for specific CPUs, then that's not "profile guided optimization"
21:29:09 <flo> and it's possible Chaz6 confused us, because Firefox is built by default with PGO enabled
21:30:54 <igorko> hi
21:31:17 <igorko> guys, "4" looks weird on instantbird.org site
21:31:37 <clokep_work> Can you be more specific?
21:31:37 <igorko> where the hell did you get that font :)
21:31:46 <igorko> http://blog.instantbird.org/
21:31:48 <clokep_work> But time to go home, goodnight!
21:31:51 <igorko> Weekly Meetings: November 7, 14 and 21, 2011
21:31:55 <-- clokep_work has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
21:32:02 <igorko> 4 char is broken
21:32:27 <igorko> also in RECENT POSTS
21:32:46 <igorko> 4 character is not quiet clean
21:33:08 <igorko> using google chrome
21:33:26 <flo> igorko: it's our own font, idechix created it
21:33:33 <igorko> instantbot: hi
21:33:34 <instantbot> yo igorko
21:34:09 <igorko> flo i don't like it, my pc loads it about half minute and pc hangs on that time
21:34:18 <flo> so our last blog post is really in november? Uh :(
21:35:07 <igorko> 4 is broken in firefox too
21:35:12 <igorko> so it's font issue
21:35:46 <flo> does the issue also exist on other computers?
21:36:06 <igorko> don
21:36:15 <igorko> don't remember really
21:36:21 <igorko> if you mean hang
21:36:40 <igorko> but on this it happens always after os reboot
21:36:57 <igorko> after cache is cleaned
21:37:31 <igorko> cache, RAM, pagefile, dunno ...
21:39:05 <Mook_as> IIRC, the instantbird font looks better on macs than it does on windows
21:40:12 <flo> IIRC, all fonts look crappy on Windows :-P
21:40:34 <flo> (couldn't resist, sorry ;))
21:43:10 <Mook_as> you remember incorrectly :p
21:43:42 <-- jb1 has quit (Ping timeout)
21:44:42 <igorko> flo yeah, yeah we know - bited apple is cool :p
21:45:31 <flo> igorko: I haven't mentioned Apple this evening :-P
21:45:34 <igorko> bitten*
21:45:39 <flo> igorko: feel free to try ubuntu, it's *free*!
21:45:49 <igorko> i'm using it
21:46:07 <igorko> xubuntu atm
21:46:31 <igorko> because Unity is bad for old hardware
21:47:28 <igorko> btw i just saw today. There is already non-free utorrent :)
21:48:00 <igorko> it's sign. TIme to make paid ubuntu :)
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22:12:08 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 
22:13:05 --> Draighth has joined #instantbird
22:13:16 <Draighth> Hello everyone!
22:14:33 <Draighth> I have a question about an account I have with a local IM server.
22:15:10 <clokep> FWIW that font looks great for me.
22:15:16 <Mook_as> Hello Draighth! I have no answers :p
22:15:17 <clokep> Draighth: Sure, what's up?
22:15:23 <Mook_as> clokep: linux?
22:15:44 <clokep> flo: And yes, our last post was in November, I was busy all Dec with work/vacation.:(
22:16:39 <Draighth> Hey, I've created an OpenFire IM server. I have used other IM clients and have connected via IP with no issues. I've recently downloaded Instantbird and so far it is working well. All other IM accounts are working... except the one that is trying to connect to the local IM server via IP.
22:17:23 <Draighth> it continually tells me: "SSL Handshake failed." However, I have 'Use encryption is available'. It is not enabled on the server
22:17:38 <Draighth> I hope that makes sense.
22:17:52 <-- Chaz6 has quit (Quit: Going to sleep)
22:17:55 <clokep> Draighth: You mean encryption is not available on the server, right?
22:18:05 <Draighth> it is disabled, yes
22:18:12 <Draighth> using the standard port 5222.
22:18:50 <Draighth> I am also using XMPP with the IP in the 'Connect server' box.
22:19:05 <Draighth> proxy is off.
22:19:08 <clokep> Did you tick of "Allow plaintext auth..."?
22:19:26 <Draighth> I just did... same response.
22:19:40 <Draighth> "Error: SSL Handshake Failed"
22:19:43 <flo> Draighth: encryption is enabled on the server
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22:20:04 <flo> (or at least it advertises it)
22:20:36 <Draighth> Well... looking at the 'Server > Server Settings > Client Connections' under 'Client Ports' SSL = Disabled
22:20:51 <Draighth> there is a port number there though
22:21:17 <flo> that's SSL (using a different port), not StartTLS (which just adds encryption to a connection that started without encryption)
22:21:30 <Draighth> I just removed the port number.... no change
22:21:51 <flo> is this the Instantbird 1.1 release you are using, or a current nightly build?
22:21:51 <-- igorko has quit (Ping timeout)
22:22:20 <Draighth> Version 1.1
22:22:20 <Draighth> Gecko 7.0.1
22:22:20 <Draighth> libpurple 2.10.0
22:22:30 <flo> ok
22:23:09 <flo> hmm, it seems there's no way to disable encryption from the UI :-S
22:23:57 <Draighth> I don't mind disabling via some config file or something... just don't understand why it is insisting on using SSL
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22:24:31 <Draighth> I've even disabled SSL and TLS via: Tools > Options > Advanced > Encryption > Protocols
22:25:02 <flo> Draighth: your server offerts to start TLS. So the client just attempts to do that.
22:25:20 <flo> and the error message is because you probably have a self-signed (or otherwise invalid) SSL certificate on your server
22:27:48 <Draighth> OK, you were right flo, for future reference in OpenFire:
22:27:48 <Draighth> Server > Server Settings > Security Settings > Client Connection Security > Custom
22:30:26 <flo> :)
22:31:30 <Mook_as> hmm, does that mean everybody else connected without failing on the bad cert? isn't that bad?
22:31:36 <Draighth> well I wish that it worked with OpenFire and SSL or TLS
22:34:10 <Draighth> Thanks again for the help. I posted a '?' on the tagging feature... think you might be able to help?
22:34:38 <clokep> Draighth: It should be able to work with OpenFire SSL/TLS, but that wasn't your question. ;)
22:35:00 <Draighth> is there a way to either combine all of the contacts within a single tag to another tag, or rename a tag, or massively move contacts under another tag?
22:35:18 <Draighth> nice clokep, do you know what I need to look at to make it work?
22:36:55 <clokep> Draighth: Use a valid cert and it shuld work. :P Or import the cert via Tools > Options > Advanced > Encryption > View Certs
22:37:34 <Draighth> sorry, I hadn't worked much with certs, etc. Let me see if I can figure that out.
22:37:42 <flo> Draighth: if you want to make that move because some of the tags are meaningless, you can just hide these tags (the contacts that are in no visible tags will appear in an "Other Contacts" group at the end of the list)
22:38:04 * Mook_as thought for silly reasons libpurple certs weren't connected to mozilla certs
22:38:42 <Draighth> Then after they have been 'moved' under Other Contacts, they need to be reorganized under another tag.
22:39:09 <Draighth> basically I have a bunch of contacts that I want to change their tag.... I don't want to just hide it, but change it.
22:39:26 <flo> Mook_as: I |rm -f|'ed the libpurple cert handling
22:39:49 <flo> Draighth: there's no quick way to do that
22:40:21 <Draighth> ok, I also found that drag and dropping doesn't work that way either
22:40:50 <Mook_as> flo++
22:40:52 <clokep> flo: Upgrade plan for m-c and c-c to MPL 2: https://wiki.mozilla.org/MPL_Upgrade
22:41:04 <clokep> Draighth: Drag & drop merges contacts.
22:41:25 <Draighth> ah, that explains why some are missing... :(
22:41:37 <flo> Mook_as: the problem is that now when Mozilla doesn't like a cert, libpurple can't override it any more
22:41:43 <Draighth> I wouldn't have thought that it would merge contacts
22:42:07 <clokep> Draighth: You want to "rename" a tag, which we have a bug or two on file about.
22:42:16 <Draighth> oh ok
22:42:30 <clokep> (If it's from a different source...say GMail, you could rename it there and then Instantbird should get an update once it reconnects.)
22:42:36 <Draighth> is the idea of renaming a tag and you rename to another tag, would it combine those contacts?
22:43:18 <clokep> No, that isn't.
22:43:30 * clokep needs to go, friend's birthday.
22:43:32 <clokep> Ciao!
22:43:47 <flo> clokep: happy friend's birthday! :)
22:44:18 <flo> Draighth: I've no idea of what you last sentence could mean, so "no" is probably the answer
22:44:29 <flo> *your
22:45:13 <-- clokep has quit (Ping timeout)
22:45:42 <Draighth> if I have a 'Facebook Friends' tag and a 'FB - Friends' tag... if I rename 'Facebook Friends' to 'FB - Friends' would it then move all of the 'Facebook Friends' contacts under 'FB - Friends'?
22:46:44 <flo> you can't change anything to the "Facebook Friends" tag
22:46:58 <flo> it's not possible to edit the Facebook tags from an IM client :(
22:47:37 <Draighth> The same goes with any other tag, as far as I can tell anyway.
22:48:00 <Draighth> Unable to rename them, remove, them, etc. Can only hide or unhide them.
22:52:50 <-- igorko has quit (Ping timeout)
22:55:25 <Draighth> I've tried to make an exception for the server via IP and can't seem to get it to see the certificate
22:55:43 <Draighth> the connected server IP is used:
22:56:26 <Draighth> when I enter this into the 'Location' field under 'Server' it says that no information available
22:56:53 <Draighth> assuming I wil have to re-enable TLS on the server?
22:57:11 <Mook_as> and it probably doesn't understand starttls (it would probably need always-on ssl to see the cert)?
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23:03:41 <Draighth> well, I'll have to continue working on this at a later time.
23:03:41 <Draighth> Thank you all for your help.
23:03:41 <Draighth> Have a good night and God bless!
23:08:14 <flo> Good night
23:08:15 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre)
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