#instantbird log on 12 08 2011

All times are UTC.

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00:39:37 <clokep> I found all these bug reports about having different feature sets per account to be missing the point of a multiprotocol IM client. :-/
00:40:06 <Mook_as> which sort of bugs? got an example?
00:48:05 <clokep> Mook_as: The one about having different emoticons for different accounts/protocols.
00:48:16 <EionRobb> like pidgin does
00:49:09 <clokep> Does Pidgin allow that?
00:49:16 <clokep> Well I think they're missing the point too then. ;)
00:49:23 <Mook_as> I can see that mattering _if_ the message depends on the exact emoticon being used... maybe.
00:49:37 <EionRobb> yeah.  I have an emoticon theme call 'original smileys' which provides the icons from the original client
00:49:37 <clokep> I think MSN and QQ have a lot of special ones.
00:50:00 <clokep> Weird.
00:50:05 <clokep> I like it all being unified.
00:51:12 <clokep> Also being able to set your status differently on each account. And listing each account separately in the buddy list instead of merging them.
00:53:23 <EionRobb> that sounds about right
00:53:45 <EionRobb> I like setting my status per account, mostly for testing though :)
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00:54:50 <EionRobb> and the one-group-per-account request comes up a lot for pidgin
00:54:58 <Mook_as> status-per-account for me is more "hey, I want to talk to friends on X but I don't want to let family on Y know I'm still up" :p
00:55:19 <EionRobb> I tried writing a plugin to do that, but the pidgin buddy list is waaay to tied in to the root->group->contact->buddy  layout
00:55:36 <EionRobb> or, I'm only accepting messages from my work accounts, not my personal ones
00:55:54 <EionRobb> I'm away on steam and facebook and one msn account but available on everything else
01:00:50 <clokep> Mook_as: OK, but in that case you sign off of that account.
01:01:01 <clokep> I don't understand why you'd be "away" on one account and "unavailable" on another.
01:01:29 <Mook_as> that's only because flo doesn't like invisible :p
01:01:45 <clokep> The problem with invisible is that most protocols don't support it. ;)
01:01:52 <clokep> You can pass it the command line parameter to get it to work though. :P
01:04:29 <EionRobb> is there no invisible in IB?
01:05:32 <Mook_as> there's only opacity: 0, which is a different thing altogether and I don't know why I'm bringing it up?
01:06:04 <EionRobb> visibility: hidden
01:06:24 <clokep> EionRobb: It's the same one that Pidgin supports.
01:08:01 <clokep> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/components/public/imIContactsService.idl#142
01:08:32 <clokep> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/modules/imStatusUtils.jsm is also applicable. ;)
01:09:20 <EionRobb> I thought you can combine them in libpurple?   like mobile + away?
01:12:26 <EionRobb> tbh I don't know of any prpls that do that (maybe msn?) and that all needs a good overhaul
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01:22:14 <clokep> Mobile is separate from statuses.
01:23:49 <EionRobb> k
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02:43:45 <Mook> hmm, I can't seem to set myself to available. I'm stuck on away.
02:44:03 <clokep> What'd you do?!
02:44:06 <clokep> Any errors?
02:44:09 <Mook> no, no errors.
02:44:17 <Mook> oops, applied an update. restarting the app :(
02:44:22 <EionRobb> any skype prpl?
02:44:38 <Mook> no skype involved; msn, aim, icq
02:44:44 <Mook> oh, and gtakj
02:44:48 <EionRobb> there's your problem then
02:44:54 <EionRobb> clokep: you better fix that ;)
02:45:08 <Mook> no, I realized what clokep was doing won't help
02:45:14 <Mook> I don't have skype installed :p
02:45:40 <clokep> What am I doing? :(
02:45:48 <EionRobb> making the skype prpl work
02:45:52 <EionRobb> lol
02:45:53 <clokep> Oh.
02:45:57 <clokep> Maybe. :P
02:45:57 <Mook> you were building the libpurple skype prpl, yeah
02:46:21 <Mook> but, then, that's further along than I theoretically trying to fix the conv bindings
02:47:09 <clokep> So are you back available now?
02:47:37 <Mook> yes
02:48:13 <clokep> OK.
02:48:21 * clokep goes back to watching TV. ;)
02:49:11 * Mook suspects it has something to do with hibernating
02:49:19 <Mook> but then I can't test that until I hibernate :p
02:49:38 <clokep> :(
02:49:43 <clokep> At least it reconnected? :-D
02:51:10 <Mook> yeah :D
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09:05:58 <Mic> Good morning
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10:04:18 <flo> hello :)
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10:35:20 <Mic> Are we supposed to switch conversations to the next available buddy if a contact signs off from one network and is available on another?
10:35:45 <flo> I'm not sure
10:35:54 <flo> I think I wanted to do that only once you start typing something
10:36:05 <flo> but the current behavior doesn't seem to be that
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10:39:57 <Mic> I think we discussed it and had doubts about immediately switching because it could be noisy when someone has a flaky connection
10:40:26 <flo> the current behavior that I've just observed in Even's tab is definitely wrong
10:42:29 <flo> it displayed a system message with his Gtalk status but with the username of the more available buddy on a different protocol
10:44:16 <Mic> Bug 742
10:44:19 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=742 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Change conversation target automatically when buddies' availability changes
10:45:51 <flo> the current JS-XMPP code doesn't automatically connect when switching the status from offline to something else. Here is the patch I have to fix this: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/1980
10:46:10 <flo> clokep: do you remember why the twitter code does something more complicated with the _enabled value?
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11:17:55 <clokep> flo: The _enabled value handles the case where your account was disconnected (by you clicking the disconnect button in the account manager).
11:18:24 <clokep> So if you're in a disconnected state, but Instantbird goes from offline to available, it still won't connect (because it shouldn't, because you told it you want to disconnect that account!)
11:18:27 <flo> why is it needed?
11:18:46 <flo> (=why wouldn't my patch also do that?)
11:19:22 <clokep> I think it's essentially the same as your _shouldReconecOnceOnline?
11:19:49 <flo> yeah, I'm wondering if there are cases that my patch doesn't handle
11:20:22 <flo> (in JS-XMPP it's difficult to set a variable in the connect method as that method changes for gtalk/facebook/whatever)
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11:21:07 <clokep> Hmmm...
11:21:11 <clokep> Let me re-read the Twitter code again.
11:24:25 <clokep> flo: I think yours would work OK.
11:24:35 <flo> ok, I'll check it in then :)
11:28:54 <clokep> (I was really hoping the core could handle whether you're supposed to reconnect or not, I thought you had said you were going to add it, but I'm probably mis-remembering. :))
11:29:13 <clokep> So only accounts that should reconnect even get their observe method called.
11:29:25 <flo> right, I think it should be handled by the imAccount rather than the prplAccount
11:29:45 <flo> I'm not sure I said *I* was going to do it
11:30:12 <clokep> I had been thinking it was part of your imAccount/prplAccount rewrite, but maybe it was just discussed around the same time and I lumped it all together in my mind.
11:30:36 <flo> we discussed at the same time and I said I wasn't going to include that in that already-giant patch
11:30:43 <flo> *discussed it
11:32:12 <clokep> Ah OK. :) My bad!
11:32:20 <clokep> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/components/src/imAccounts.js#162 almost sounds like what we'd want. ;)
11:35:22 <flo> see also line 259
11:35:32 <flo> it's were the prplAccount.observe method is called
11:36:28 <clokep> Ah, I see.
11:36:35 <flo> *where
11:42:10 <clokep> Ah I see where to do it, you just set _reconnectOnDisconnect to true in the connect method, false in the disconnect method & check for it before you observe. I think that should do it. (Which is pretty much your patch too, but in a different file. :))
11:42:13 <clokep> I'll test that tonight.
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11:49:53 <clokep> The new "Facebook Friends" group is rather annoying. :(
11:50:06 <flo> I still don't have it :-P
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11:58:10 <clokep> Lucky. :( I wonder if the group info is anywhere in what they send us or if we'd need to reques tit.
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12:54:08 <clokep_work> Bleh win32 failed again.
12:54:13 <clokep_work> I sense a recurring theme. ;)
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13:08:06 <flo> clokep_work: wanna have a discussion about how sucky that OS is? :-P
13:13:03 <instantbot> New purplexpcom - General bug 1198 filed by michal.stanke@mikk.cz.
13:13:06 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1198 nor, --, 1.2, nobody, UNCO, New JavaScript XMPP does not support GTalk for Google Apps
13:13:28 <clokep_work> flo: To develop on, sure. :P
13:14:18 <clokep_work> I almost wonder if we should have a separate GTalk for Google Apps account type then. :(
13:14:27 <clokep_work> But that seems complicated. :-X
13:14:51 <flo> -> WFM (that new bug). Someone interested in commenting/explaining? :)
13:16:01 * clokep_work doesn't have a Google Apps account to check w/.
13:20:41 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 1198 to WORKSFORME.
13:20:43 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1198 nor, --, 1.2, nobody, RESO WORKSFORME, New JavaScript XMPP does not support GTalk for Google Apps
13:25:50 <flo> removing the usage of utilities.js from the account manager actually shortens our code :-D
13:26:00 <flo> 8 files changed, 38 insertions(+), 44 deletions(-)
13:26:47 <flo> anybody willing to review that change? http://pastebin.instantbird.com/1999
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13:33:44 <clokep_work> flo: That looks good to me. r+ (untested :P)
13:33:49 <clokep_work> getIter is used in other places too I assume? :(
13:34:04 <flo> that's why I haven't removed it
13:34:20 <flo> I cleaned up only the files I need for Thunderbird
13:34:49 <clokep_work> OK!
13:35:28 <flo> and after that only one {add,remove}Observers call remained in blist.js so I also removed it so that I can remove these functions and be sure nobody was going to use them in new code
13:38:41 <flo> if someone every feels like removing the remaining getIter calls (http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/search?string=getIter) that would be nice :)
13:39:07 <flo> there are 11 lefts after my changes
13:42:10 <flo> I've identified what was causing strange behaviors of the account wizard for some advanced protocol options: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/2006
13:42:15 <flo> it was a trivial error
13:44:25 <clokep_work> Ah-ha.
13:45:46 <flo> probably a good idea to commit a fix before forking that file for Thunderbird :)
13:50:47 <clokep_work> :) How forked is that becoming? :(
13:51:12 <flo> I'm not sure how I feel about forking vs sharing
13:51:20 <flo> it's clear that I want to share chat/
13:51:25 <flo> but for the UI parts, I'm really not sure
13:52:00 <flo> forking is painful (for maintenance)
13:52:07 <clokep_work> Yes. I agree. :(
13:52:15 <flo> sharing is painful (increasing number of ifdefs over time)
13:52:29 <clokep_work> It depends how close they need to be, yes.
13:52:49 <clokep_work> Or rather how different they need to be?
13:52:51 <flo> the account wizard is likely going to be (almost) identical
13:53:01 <flo> the account manager will be similar but slightly different
13:54:03 <flo> I don't have a correct solution yet for the purpleIProxy mess, and I clearly don't want to put that in Thunderbird by default
13:54:24 <flo> (well, I don't want it in Instantbird either, but I have to keep it until we can connect libpurple account through mozilla sockets)
13:55:39 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/7cee3360eda5 - Florian Quèze - Reconnect JS-XMPP accounts automatically when the user is back online.
13:55:40 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/739ee1d141eb - Florian Quèze - Stop using utilities.js for the account manager, r=clokep.
13:55:41 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/3f9b17a5695b - Florian Quèze - Fix handling of the default value of boolean advanced account preferences in the account wizard.
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14:18:25 <flo> hmm, so opening the account wizard without having started the core first isn't a good idea :-S
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15:16:37 <flo> files in chat/ have many references on chrome://instantbird/ :(
15:19:18 <clokep_work> Are they just files in Instantbird that can be moved to chat or are they Instantbird specific?
15:19:57 <flo> here's a list http://pastebin.instantbird.com/2018
15:20:28 <flo> and that's after this change http://pastebin.instantbird.com/2017 (moving the default preferences values used in chat/ into a separate file)
15:21:21 <clokep_work> :(
15:29:12 <flo> this fixes the default prefs used in chat/ and the localized strings they depend on: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/2019
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17:22:21 <igorko> hi
17:22:29 <igorko> flo: could you approve? https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/282
17:22:41 <igorko> updated, now it woeks
17:22:44 <igorko> works*
17:23:13 <flo> if you have nominated it to get it out of the sandbox, Even will look at it
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17:24:42 <igorko> hm
17:24:47 <igorko> it's i Sandbox :(
17:24:59 <igorko> didn't notice :)
17:27:08 <igorko> or maybe i wasn't able to release it after first upload... Don't remember
17:31:31 <igorko> please remember me how to start another profile
17:31:37 <igorko> to test add-on
17:33:51 <igorko> ah- i found shortcut :)
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17:42:27 * flo wonders how the indentation of http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/mailnews/base/prefs/content/AccountManager.js#1170 passed a review :-S
17:43:41 <flo> or maybe diff -W/patch messed it up just before the commit :-S
17:44:28 <Mook_as> no, it looks like that in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=345812&action=diff
17:45:35 <Mook_as> and there were no review comments about it
17:45:40 * flo is depressed
17:45:56 <Mook_as> (from https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=453908 of course)
17:46:41 <flo> or maybe it means the review step for my Instantbird code to integrate will be easy ;)
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17:48:46 <clokep_work> So any fixes we make to shared code will need to be reviewed/commited twice and all. :( That's annoying.
17:49:11 <Mook_as> or just get it reviewed upstream, and assume it'll be fine?
17:49:19 <clokep_work> Yeah.
17:49:41 <flo> from what I've understood, I'm going to be module owner for that part of the code
17:50:15 <flo> which means that r+ for inclusion in Instantbird will also mean r+ for Thunderbird. (for the parts that are shared)
17:50:15 <Mook_as> that sounds awesome (mostly from a "more people outside of MoCo/MoMo needs to own code" point of view)
17:50:39 <flo> Mook_as: what do you mean by "outside of MoCo/MoMo" in my case? :-S
17:50:56 <Mook_as> oh, you're working for MoMo for that part?
17:51:05 * Mook_as thought you were randomly in some university somewhere :p
17:51:09 <flo> yeah, I'm florian@mozilla.com when working on Thunderbird
17:52:14 <flo> (and I should probably not have written that in a logged room but oh well, I already receive spam on that address anyway...)
17:52:35 <Mook_as> meh, if it's ever in bugzilla anywhere, there's no point :)
17:52:40 <flo> Mook_as: MoMo doesn't seem to actually exist (as a separate legal entity) any more
17:52:53 <Mook_as> right, they got folded back into MoCo / labs?
17:52:58 <flo> yeah
17:54:23 <flo> Mook_as: and fwiw, I no longer have my office in the university, as being a Mozilla contractor doesn't sound like an innovative company project any more
17:54:34 <Mook_as> haha
17:57:57 <flo> 9 global variables in the same file, only one prefixed with "g" :(
17:58:07 <flo> s/one/two/
17:58:51 <flo> uh http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/mailnews/base/util/iteratorUtils.jsm
18:00:29 <flo> if that's implemented correctly, it would be nicer in mozilla-central :-/
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18:07:26 <igorko> nice Inline dictionary works again :)
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18:13:09 <igorko> i havenominated all addons now
18:16:26 <flo> Mook_as: another nice discovery in the same file http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/mailnews/base/prefs/content/AccountManager.js#581 "  if (!addAccountButton && !removeButton && !setDefaultButton)"
18:16:55 <flo> if you click on the "raw" file, then select that line and look at the source, you'll see "  if (!addAccountButton &amp;&amp;&nbsp;!removeButton &amp;&amp; !setDefaultButton)"
18:18:26 <flo> can the JS engine even parse that line with the &nbsp; in there?
18:18:54 <Mook_as> hehe,   if (!addAccountButton &&Â !removeButton && !setDefaultButton)
18:19:02 <flo> right
18:19:15 <Mook_as> (http://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central/raw-file/tip/mailnews/base/prefs/content/AccountManager.js is more canonical than what mxr reports)
18:19:29 <Mook_as> no idea what the js engine thinks of it
18:19:53 <flo> several years ago I did that mistake and the tinderbox turned orange because of that (browser.js couldn't be parsed any more)
18:23:28 <flo> function initAcountActionsButton(menupopup) {
18:25:36 * flo needs to resist the temptation of rewriting half of the code he reads
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22:08:28 <DGMurdockIII> Error: Corrupted database: duplicated account_buddy entry: account_id = 4, buddy_id = 273, tag_id = 3
22:08:28 <DGMurdockIII> Source File: jar:file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/Instantbird/omni.jar!/components/imContacts.js
22:08:28 <DGMurdockIII> Line: 1247
22:08:43 <DGMurdockIII> im getijng that error right now
22:09:02 <EionRobb> what's wrong with having the same buddy in the contact list twice?
22:09:29 <DGMurdockIII> not sure it a error that comming up in the error log
22:10:00 <DGMurdockIII> error console
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22:23:54 <EionRobb> can you pause execution, or set breakpoints with the error console?
22:24:07 <Mook_as> no, you need venkman for that
22:24:11 <Mook_as> ... if it works
22:24:13 <flo> EionRobb: it's wrong when it's the same buddy for the same account in the same group
22:24:24 <EionRobb> sure, 'in the same group' :)
22:24:40 <EionRobb> is the tag_id the group?
22:24:45 <flo> yes
22:24:49 <EionRobb> ah ok
22:25:41 <flo> I'm not sure of what caused that corruption, but I added checks with warnings in bad situations both when loading the list from the disk and when attempting to save a buddy
22:26:11 <flo> hopefully (if the bug causing the corruption still exists), we will eventually have someone find the steps to reproduce now that there's a visible warning
22:28:36 <flo> it seems my error messages talking about a "corrupted database" are a bit too scary, I should probably replace the errors with warnings, and just say "Ignored duplicate entry:"
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22:57:05 <aleth> another new-ish IM client in development http://dot.kde.org/2011/12/07/kde-telepathy-02-future-free-communication
22:59:20 <Mook_as> I thought telepathy wasn't that new?
22:59:43 <EionRobb> apparently a kde frontend to it is
22:59:48 <aleth> Afaik this is the first useable version, and they are still calling it a preview
23:01:40 <aleth> I wonder if it uses libpurple...
23:03:04 <aleth> oh, empathy uses telepathy too, I didn't know that.
23:05:21 <flo> is Kopete still alive?
23:05:57 <aleth> I don't think so... it exists but afaik the surviving devs joined kde-telepathy
23:06:15 <flo> I'm not sure if that's good or bad :-S
23:06:26 <flo> There were some interesting ideas in kopete
23:06:30 <aleth> No idea
23:06:40 <aleth> I never used it. What ideas do you mean?
23:09:53 <aleth> The identity manager?
23:11:36 <EionRobb> aleth: it uses libpurple for some protocols through the telepathy-haze connector
23:13:19 <aleth> "I disagree to some extent, and given I wrote the most code in this project I think I'm most in the know ;-) There is no Kopete team. No-one is maintaining it, a team simply doesn't exist. Some of the people are still around in KDE and the ones I've spoken to fully support and approve of the project, but I don't think any of them are actively contributing. It happens in open source, projects die, teams disappear, new ones flourish. Circle of Life. A 
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23:15:08 <flo> aleth: where is that quote from?
23:15:18 <aleth> flo: the link above, in the comments
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23:17:28 <Mook_as> I guess "this" in that quote refers to kde-telepathy?
23:17:40 <aleth> Mook_as: yes
23:18:37 <aleth> But judge for yourself from the context
23:19:09 <Mook_as> I did go read it, I just was confused between the choices of "kde-telepathy" (likely) and "kopete" (less likely) :)
23:19:38 <flo> in another comment "Or perhaps it is cross-platform like no app out there?" no app out there? really? ;)
23:20:31 <flo> well, he mentions Android after that, so we aren't really cross-platform (yet) in his way of thinking
23:22:19 <flo> Mook_as: the author of that comment is also the author of the blog post
23:22:29 <Mook_as> ah :)
23:22:32 <flo> so likely this=kde-telepathy
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23:47:03 <clokep> Interesting mock up flo.
23:47:15 <flo> ah, you read planet?
23:48:31 <clokep> Yes, of course. :)
23:48:32 <flo> I'm not sure why Blake has posted only that mockup (it was part of a set of 3-4 images showing different aspects of the same idea); and it's a mockup I made weeks (months?) ago.
23:48:36 <clokep> And I follow breaking the egg.
23:49:45 <clokep> Ah, interesting.
23:51:02 <flo> by the way, have you noticed Yoric's post that mentions us just after "Thunderbird" in the list of XUL applications? :)
23:52:25 <clokep> I'm reading it now.
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23:53:26 <flo> it's the reason why I think it's important to target Mozillians as users we want to attract ;)
23:54:20 <clokep> Does the OS.File stuff actually help us?
23:54:24 <clokep> The content of that post I mean. :P
23:54:56 <flo> no idea
23:55:24 <flo> maybe for things related to buddy icons and logs
23:55:56 <flo> But I think it definitely help us to be mentioned by people talking about something else
23:56:44 <clokep> Yup, definitely! (And before Camino and Songbird. ;))
23:58:51 <flo> isn't Camino almost dead, and Songbird moving on to another platform?
23:59:04 <flo> BlueGriphon isn't mentioned
23:59:39 <clokep> Camino I think can't move to Moz2 without major work.
23:59:52 <clokep> Is Songbird moving off XUL? I've heard it implied, but didn't read anything about it.